Please respond if you are for rational discussion: Razorback Football

[urkillnmesmalls]

Yes! I do.

and then you move into conspiracy theory

Conspiracy???  It's not a conspiracy that they were engaged was it?  Are you now suggesting BP was having the affair with JD's fiance, and SHE ran him of the road?  Now THAT's a conspiracy. 

What I'm saying is...it's fair to assume that her Fiance was probably not going to be too thrilled with the events, provided he had any knowledge of them.  The part of his beating him up, or running him off the road...would make that pretty well required.  I have no idea if that happened or not, but a male fiance finding out his wife to be is screwing around probably wouldn't put ANYONE doing that on his next party invitation. 

You disagree?

[LSUFan]

LSU fired its Chancellor and entire Board of Trustees to hire a guy was 34-24-1 in his previous job and had never won his conference? 

Hmmm, I'm going to need to see some proof of that.

Google is your friend.

Joe Dean, AD, got his pink slip too.

The snake rots from the head down.

[BPsTheMan]

A = $$$$ and saving face, even in corporate America and in the White House, people who make a hire are unwilling to admit they made a BAD hire.

B. = See A, the Chancellor and the BOT ARE the Problem, which is what Nick Saban demanded be changed before he accepted the position at LSU.

The Soap Opera that is UoA has been allowed to fester, deter blue chips from coming here, and has prevented building a winning program because of the Chancellor, BOT, and Frank.

Until they are gone/replaced what has happened will continue to happen.

Definition of stupid? Keep doing what you have done and expect different results.

why do you say "the Chancellor and the BOT" when it's the BOT who hired the Chancellor?

And WTH does "the Chancellor" have to do with running the AD office?

Please tell me you've never written a book on chain of command.

[ATU HOG]

Question A: I believe what many of us feel from Jeff is a few things. 

1) I think the true story never came out on the Bobby thing.  As a passionate fan, I believe we deserve to know the truth about everything that happened.  So when we as the fans, are left out high and dry, it leaves some questioning to why we fired one of the best coaches in college football.

2) I think a lot of us want Jeff to move on as AD and not continue to bring up the past.  Him tweeting about how he believes in integrity and higher education and how we have a leader that is going to do that just gets on my nerves.  Almost every university holds itself up to higher standards, I just feel like we are the only ones who talk about doing it.  Lets quit talking about how great people we are for what we have done and what we continue to do.  Lets show people by our actions instead of continually telling people about what we are doing. 

3) It's kind of like a Jerry Jones situation.  I'm tired of hearing from Jerry, as much as I'm tired of hearing from Jeff.  I'm not a big fan of the whole "Never Yield" campaign.  I like what they are doing, but I hate hearing "Never Yield."  Why not just "Go Hogs" or "Woo Pig"  I say it to the cashiers everywhere I go 

Anyway, thats my 2 cents.  Go hogs

[BPsTheMan]

Conspiracy???  It's not a conspiracy that they were engaged was it?  Are you now suggesting BP was having the affair with JD's fiance, and SHE ran him of the road?  Now THAT's a conspiracy. 

What I'm saying is...it's fair to assume that her Fiance was probably not going to be too thrilled with the events, provided he had any knowledge of them.  The part of his beating him up, or running him off the road...would make that pretty well required.  I have no idea if that happened or not, but a male fiance finding out his wife to be is screwing around probably wouldn't put ANYONE doing that on his next party invitation. 

You disagree?

Disagree? It's useless. I don't care.

[LSUFan]

why do you say "the Chancellor and the BOT" when it's the BOT who hired the Chancellor?

And WTH does "the Chancellor" have to do with running the AD office?

Please tell me you've never written a book on chain of command.

Chancelor Hires the AD and has final approval of the HC.

You don't have to tell me you've never spent time in an Athletic Department.

[Boardon Hamsay]

another case of not drilling down

I agree. I find some drill down far enough to where it's convenient to support ones agenda, not necessarily down far enough to find the root causes of an issue.

[BPsTheMan]

Chancelor Hires the AD and has final approval of the HC.

You don't have to tell me you've never spent time in an Athletic Department.

are you talking about LSU?

or are you saying John White hired Nutt?

LOL - you're drunk

[LSUFan]

I agree. I find some drill down far enough to where it's convenient to support ones agenda, not necessarily down far enough to find the root causes of an issue.

[piratepower]

When the current track coaches were hired this board went crazy and said that it was the end of the track program!
Once he had time to institute his program, national championships again!
The same thing is going to happen in basketball and football---in time!
Every year thru recruiting of his type players, the basketball team has gotten better and will continue.
Football takes longer because there are more moving parts. It takes alot more players.
We are going to be fine, just relax and give them all time.
I think Jeff Long has done a great job and I am a JFB fan.
Hard to follow a legend!

[LSUFan]

are you talking about LSU?

or are you saying John White hired Nutt?

LOL - you're drunk

Can you read? Or do you have your Jenn/BB glasses on?

[urkillnmesmalls]

Question A: I believe what many of us feel from Jeff is a few things. 

1) I think the true story never came out on the Bobby thing.  As a passionate fan, I believe we deserve to know the truth about everything that happened.  So when we as the fans, are left out high and dry, it leaves some questioning to why we fired one of the best coaches in college football.

2) I think a lot of us want Jeff to move on as AD and not continue to bring up the past.  Him tweeting about how he believes in integrity and higher education and how we have a leader that is going to do that just gets on my nerves.  Almost every university holds itself up to higher standards, I just feel like we are the only ones who talk about doing it.  Lets quit talking about how great people we are for what we have done and what we continue to do.  Lets show people by our actions instead of continually telling people about what we are doing. 

3) It's kind of like a Jerry Jones situation.  I'm tired of hearing from Jerry, as much as I'm tired of hearing from Jeff.  I'm not a big fan of the whole "Never Yield" campaign.  I like what they are doing, but I hate hearing "Never Yield."  Why not just "Go Hogs" or "Woo Pig"  I say it to the cashiers everywhere I go 

Anyway, thats my 2 cents.  Go hogs

The light of integrity was shined on us from the outside in for how JL and the UA handled the BP case.  You know why?  People HATED that man from coast to coast, and most still do.  Even people HERE who worked with him every day hated him.  So when something bad like that happens to someone people feel is deserving, they commend the people who did it.  It's that simple.   

It's our fans who are hanging this integrity banner up and using it as cannon fodder.  Not anyone else.  Most people across the country love what JL did, and they think we'll win again.  It's only our paranoid fan base who is convinced that we can never do anything good under anyone BUT the guy who everyone across the country TOLD US would fail us when it mattered most.

I highlighted your comments in bold, because what you're saying there is that the results on the field should speak for themselves right?  Integrity statements have been made, because the turnaround isn't going as well as some fans would like, but it's the AD's JOB TO ASSURE THE fans that we'll get there, but not at the expense of doing it the wrong way by cutting corners.  If that isn't said out loud...how does that get conveyed?  CBB has said it all season long...no shortcuts.  JL reiterated it to back up CBB and his task of turning things around, and now he's the bad guy? 

Is there just no way anyone can wait a few more years to see how this plays out?  Are you all already THAT convinced that JL is the devil and CBB will never win here?  If so...I swear, you should all be millionaires in something or another, because you can foresee the future better than anyone I know. 

[BPsTheMan]

I agree. I find some drill down far enough to where it's convenient to support ones agenda, not necessarily down far enough to find the root causes of an issue.

correct - here's one...

FattyMcGee, bro, you are a Gus fan, so...should Nutt have been fired after 2004?

[urkillnmesmalls]

Disagree? It's useless. I don't care.

Then why are you here OTR? 

[BPsTheMan]

Can you read? Or do you have your Jenn/BB glasses on?

are you saying John White hired Nutt?

[Fatty McGee]

correct - here's one...

FattyMcGee, bro, you are a Gus fan, so...should Nutt have been fired after 2004?

I think Gus is a good coach but I think Bielema was a good choice too. 

And the answer to your question is yes, although I understand why he wasn't. 

[LSUFan]

are you saying John White hired Nutt?

Difference in hiring and giving the last nod.

[BPsTheMan]

Then why are you here OTR?

Thank you! This will be a great topic for a Tavern thread! 

[urkillnmesmalls]

Thank you! This will be a great topic for a Tavern thread! 

[BPsTheMan]

I think Gus is a good coach but I think Bielema was a good choice too. 

And the answer to your question is yes, although I understand why he wasn't.

Fair answer.

But he should have been fired after 2004. And no one has ever been held accountable that he wasn't.

I don't want to hear the "two year warning" crap. That was a ruse.

This was the beginning of the horse manure we're still wading in.

Jeff Long and CBB had nothing to do with it, and they're trying to fix it.

[BPsTheMan]

Difference in hiring and giving the last nod.

chain of command

you're not answering the question

John White did not hire Nutt, nor did he protect his job later on. That is fiction.

[LSUFan]

Jeff Long and CBB had nothing to do with it, and they're trying to fix it.

How?

"We can win with the talent we have on the roster"? 12/12

Coach Speek?

13 out of 14 recruiting class?

Please explain?

[Hogfaniam]

Couldn't be covered up. State police investigated their own officer's role - it would have been publicized. That was the tipping point - a state agency doing their job.

A cover up would have only made the fallout worse, and its reach wider. As it played out, painful and still ongoing, UA was allowed to clean house and start over. Outside of the influence of anyone who was within the UA program at any point in the past 10 years, save poor Taver Johnson who didn't sign on for this mess but was dropped into the middle of it anyway.

That needs to resonate on two levels:
1. The wreck was going to be publicly vetted by someone, and if the media didn't do it they would have been found complicit and we'd really have a maelstrom on our hands.
2. A complete, clean break with the past had to be executed to move forward.

Or, regarding #2, that was how it played out, in a manner consistent with the GOBN explanation provided by Wilsonhog.

ever wonder why TJ was the only one "retained"?

[ATU HOG]

The light of integrity was shined on us from the outside in for how JL and the UA handled the BP case.  You know why?  People HATED that man from coast to coast, and most still do.  Even people HERE who worked with him every day hated him.  So when something bad like that happens to someone people feel is deserving, they commend the people who did it.  It's that simple.   

It's our fans who are hanging this integrity banner up and using it as cannon fodder.  Not anyone else.  Most people across the country love what JL did, and they think we'll win again.  It's only our paranoid fan base who is convinced that we can never do anything good under anyone BUT the guy who everyone across the country TOLD US would fail us when it mattered most.

I highlighted your comments in bold, because what you're saying there is that the results on the field should speak for themselves right?  Integrity statements have been made, because the turnaround isn't going as well as some fans would like, but it's the AD's JOB TO ASSURE THE fans that we'll get there, but not at the expense of doing it the wrong way by cutting corners.  If that isn't said out loud...how does that get conveyed?  CBB has said it all season long...no shortcuts.  JL reiterated it to back up CBB and his task of turning things around, and now he's the bad guy? 

Is there just no way anyone can wait a few more years to see how this plays out?  Are you all already THAT convinced that JL is the devil and CBB will never win here?  If so...I swear, you should all be millionaires in something or another, because you can foresee the future better than anyone I know.

I can be patient and wait.  I have no problem waiting.  It isn't fun, but I think CBB can get us to the top, just going to take time.  I like what JL has done with the facilities and what he has done at the U of A during his tenure here.  I have no problem with that.  I'm glad he's our AD and will support him.  Doesn't mean I have to agree with his every move, but I'll still support.

On the integrity thing, to me it just gets old.  We are two years into the firing of Bobby and we are still talking about integrity.  The time has passed where we have to talk about it.  He tweeted something two days ago about it, and to me if he was this passionate about having higher education and integrity why weren't we hearing about it in 2010 and 2011?  Let's just move on, he made the right move so lets just go with the cards we have been dealt and quit talking and start playing. 

[WilsonHog]

I can be patient and wait.  I have no problem waiting.  It isn't fun, but I think CBB can get us to the top, just going to take time.  I like what JL has done with the facilities and what he has done at the U of A during his tenure here.  I have no problem with that.  I'm glad he's our AD and will support him.  Doesn't mean I have to agree with his every move, but I'll still support.

On the integrity thing, to me it just gets old.  We are two years into the firing of Bobby and we are still talking about integrity.  The time has passed where we have to talk about it.  He tweeted something two days ago about it, and to me if he was this passionate about having higher education and integrity why weren't we hearing about it in 2010 and 2011?  Let's just move on, he made the right move so lets just go with the cards we have been dealt and quit talking and start playing.

Because you sell what you have.

[BPsTheMan]

How?

"We can win with the talent we have on the roster"? 12/12

Coach Speek?

13 out of 14 recruiting class?

Please explain?

?? Coach speak, sure... whatever

you're being a 5th grader

A better question is why is an "LSU fan" here trying to solidify Arkansas-GOBN-approved fall guys?

[urkillnmesmalls]

How?

"We can win with the talent we have on the roster"? 12/12

Coach Speek?

13 out of 14 recruiting class?

Please explain?

We're ranked 6th in 2015 right now with the commits we have currently.  That's without establishing much...a gross understatement.  So they are obviously doing something right. 

Again...we were voted last by the coaches, and we lived up to it.  It's what SOME of us expected to happen.  We came pretty close to causing your fickle fan base that thinks Miles is the best coach in the country one year, and should be fired the next, from swinging back toward wanting him gone. 

Even more so than wanting us to win an SEC game, I wanted to see the LSU fans go bat crap crazy for Les losing to a 3-8 team at home...no less.      

[ATU HOG]

Because you sell what you have.

Yeah, you're right.  Just gotta play the cards you're dealt

[LSUFan]

?? Coach speak, sure... whatever

you're being a 5th grader

A better question is why is an "LSU fan" here trying to solidify Arkansas-GOBN-approved fall guys?

Answer the question to your assertion. How?

[kaiserhog]

Because you sell what you have.

Ouch, that hurts.

[LSUFan]

We're ranked 6th in 2015 right now with the commits we have currently.   

Really?

Ever heard of NSD?

Throw away the record book with rivalry games, BTW.

[Mr. Blonde]

Because you sell what you have.

Integrity doesn't fill a soon to be expanded RRS.  There is a reason Harvard doesn't play their home games at Gillette Stadium.

[BPsTheMan]

Answer the question to your assertion. How?

I'm not arguing short term topics here

[urkillnmesmalls]

Because you sell what you have.

As a Hog fan, there has to be some sense of "Dare to be Different."  We have plenty of fans who suggests that we can accomplish that with a high flying offensive minded coach who takes advantage of talent better than CBB ever will with his system.  I counter with why it's completely impossible to establish a reputation built on doing it the right way, employing a disciplined system based on precise execution, and getting kids who believe in that to come to the UA.   

I keep hearing that no one cares about that.  BS.  I cared about it...and still do, and I know a lot of people who do as well.  You start graduating kids, taking care of them in the community with jobs after school, and winning football games doing it...and it becomes an advantage over a school that doesn't do that and doesn't care one iota about integrity.  Especially if some are making it to the NFL... 

It's the people who suggest that it's impossible that are the same ones who are trying to figure out an angle to get the best kid in the 4th grade on their PeeWee football team, even if it means breaking the rules to do it.  That's what I believe...

[allredhog]

Mixed bag:
(1) Long was right to fire Petrino (had no choice since Petrino abused his power to line up a promotion for his mistress).

(2) Long was grossly negligent in hiring John L. for a one-year stint (this equates to killing recruiting because 4 and 5 star kids don't routinely sign with lame duck 70-year-old coaches)

(3) Long was right to hire Bielema. He is smart enough to know that he had a free pass this season to lose as many games as he wants to lose. He will recruit better than Nutt or Petrino and he is a proven winner in a conference where he never had the best talent.

(4) It appears Long is doing a good job raising money, which (if true) is a huge plus.

Overall grade for Long thus far: "B." He would get an "A" if he hadn't lost his mind in 2012 when he hired a lame duck, bankrupt, senile coach, which absolutely killed recruiting.

This! 

[urkillnmesmalls]

Integrity doesn't fill a soon to be expanded RRS.  There is a reason Harvard doesn't play their home games at Gillette Stadium.

Where does Stanford play theirs? 

And what does intelligence have to do with integrity?  You can be flat out stupid and have integrity.  You can be brilliant, and exhibit NONE. 

[Mr. Blonde]

As a Hog fan, there has to be some sense of "Dare to be Different."

Well...0-8 in conference certainly was out of the ordinary.

[urkillnmesmalls]

Well...0-8 in conference certainly was out of the ordinary.

Sure was...so was BP bringing in 394,000 WR's and 7 LB's. 

[Mr. Blonde]

Where does Stanford play theirs? 

In a 50,000 seat dump. Were you trying to prove my point for me?

[hehawg]

Because you sell what you have.

Whatever your selling needs to shine, standout...not real sure at this point we have that

[Boardon Hamsay]

There's a lot of truth to us being a circle jerk as well . We needed the change from the GOBN/JFB/White/Nutt debable that was. We were arguably quite a few years late to addressing that issue but we finally came around.

However, the real question is, were we really ready for that needed change(organizationally, with media relations, as a fan base, etc)? Obviously, no. We were not ready for the change that we needed. That's what we're ultimately mired in now; still trying to adapt to change and we have a tendency to be quite late to that party. In many circles, we still prefer to have a scapegoat or two handy as opposed to dealing with the change we need.  That's the battle Long is facing.

[ATU HOG]

Sure was...so was BP bringing in 394,000 WR's and 7 LB's.

I don't care if we are bringing kids that are 5'6 1135 lbs as long as we are winning.  Don't hate the past, because the past was great.  We will get there again, just be patient.

[urkillnmesmalls]

In a 50,000 seat dump. Were you trying to prove my point for me?

That's because of emphasis of the program.  I think JL has done and EXCELLENT job of acquiring funding for athletics, even though you must apparently disagree. 

Stanford emphasizes academics, and are still one of the top programs in the country.  They're playing a system that is allowing lesser talent to compete, but no one ever talks about that.  Nope....at Arkansas, it HAS to be a high flying system that out scores everyone.   

What point did you think I made exactly?   

[urkillnmesmalls]

I don't care if we are bringing kids that are 5'6 1135 lbs as long as we are winning.  Don't hate the past, because the past was great.  We will get there again, just be patient.

....it's the recent past that wasn't so great when it comes to recruiting.  I'm patient...not sure why you're saying that to me.  Direct that at Blonde who is convinced JL is the root of every problem in the Universe. 

[bwbcpa]

Fair answer.

But he should have been fired after 2004. And no one has ever been held accountable that he wasn't.

I don't want to hear the "two year warning" crap. That was a ruse.

This was the beginning of the horse manure we're still wading in.

Jeff Long and CBB had nothing to do with it, and they're trying to fix it.

I've been trying to piece together your queries, but it's getting a little too cryptic, so I'll ask straight out:

I agree Nutt should have been fired after 2004 (should have never been hired, but that's another discussion), so, who did NOT fire him? Why was the "two year pass" a ruse? What was the real reason for his non-dismissal? What are we still wading in that JL and CBB are trying to dig us out? Not trying to be smart, but some of this is going in circles and my wife would tell you I don't pick up hints very well.

[Mr. Blonde]

That's because of emphasis of the program.  I think JL has done and EXCELLENT job of acquiring funding for athletics, even though you must apparently disagree. 

Stanford emphasizes academics, and are still one of the top programs in the country.  They're playing a system that is allowing lesser talent to compete, but no one ever talks about that.  Nope....at Arkansas, it HAS to be a high flying system that out scores everyone.   

What point did you think I made exactly?   

Selling 50 out of 80 thousand seats ain't gonna cut it here.

[BPsTheMan]

There's a lot of truth to us being a circle jerk as well . We needed the change from the GOBN/JFB/White/Nutt debable that was. We were arguably quite a few years late to addressing that issue but we finally came around.

However, the real question is, were we really ready for that needed change(organizationally, with media relations, as a fan base, etc)? Obviously, no. We were not ready for the change that we needed. That's what we're ultimately mired in now; still trying to adapt to change and we have a tendency to be quite late to that party. In many circles, we still prefer to have a scapegoat or two handy as opposed to dealing with the change we need.  That's the battle Long is facing.

Doesn't matter. Like I predicted, this thread is accomplishing nothing.

Already branching off into recruiting, Bobby/Jessica, and stadium size.

No drill down, on purpose.

Ignorance is bliss.

[Oklahawg]

Fair answer.

But he should have been fired after 2004. And no one has ever been held accountable that he wasn't.

I don't want to hear the "two year warning" crap. That was a ruse.

This was the beginning of the horse manure we're still wading in.

Jeff Long and CBB had nothing to do with it, and they're trying to fix it.

Sounds like you are trying to relive 2004 again.

[urkillnmesmalls]

There's a lot of truth to us being a circle jerk as well . We needed the change from the GOBN/JFB/White/Nutt debable that was. We were arguably quite a few years late to addressing that issue but we finally came around.

However, the real question is, were we really ready for that needed change(organizationally, with media relations, as a fan base, etc)? Obviously, no. We were not ready for the change that we needed. That's what we're ultimately mired in now; still trying to adapt to change and we have a tendency to be quite late to that party. In many circles, we still prefer to have a scapegoat or two handy as opposed to dealing with the change we need.  That's the battle Long is facing.

The mentality of most was, "We knew Nutt was the issue for a long time, but Broyles allowed him to remain."  I have never seen anyone give facts about why that happened...just speculation about the PTB and the GOBN. 

It's also a hangover from the "Look what happened when we fired Nutt and got Petrino" mindset that suggested to some fans that firing someone that is losing is always the answer.  At some point...it is, but not in the FIRST YEAR.  C'mon people!! 

[Boardon Hamsay]

Doesn't matter. Like I predicted, this thread is accomplishing nothing.

Already branching off into recruiting, Bobby/Jessica, and stadium size.

No drill down, on purpose.

Ignorance is bliss.

Drill depth tends to equal the depth of the drill operator or agenda, unfortunately. At least there's Hoffa....