Please respond if you are for rational discussion: Razorback Football

[TOM "tbw1"]

First, please consider the difference between cognitive intelligence and emotional intelligence:

Being effective both alone and as a team player vs. Only effective when working alone
Being able to manage your own emotions vs. Having temper tantrums, sulking or withdrawing
Being able to empathize with others and knowing where they're coming from vs. Not being able to grasp the feelings of others and understand how the emotions are affecting the situation[/b]
Using an emotional appeal to convince someone of somethingv. Using an intellectual appeal to convince someone of something
Knowing that motivation is a feeling word v. Thinking that motivation is a thinking word.

As Jack Webb would say just the facts.

Question A:  Many Arkansas fans are angry because he fired Bobby Petrino, others because he is not from Arkansas.  Yet he seems to have the support of the Chancellor, the President and BOT while also having the respect of his peers.  Why?

PLEASE LIST FACTS AND NOT OPINION

Question B;  Please list a program that suffered the same problems as Arkansas and then list facts as to how that program faced them.  Please limit yourself to teams that were having spring practice when the coach was fired.

[BPsTheMan]

most splintered fan base in the history of college football possibly 

Bob Shields will put in all in perspective for us very soon.

[bphi11ips]

Just the facts, ma'am.

[BPsTheMan]

Question A:  Many Arkansas fans are angry because he fired Bobby Petrino, others because he is not from Arkansas.  Yet he seems to have the support of the Chancellor, the President and BOT while also having the respect of his peers.  Why?

Since April 2012, no one has told the complete story of Jeff/Bobby. Why? Because the storytellers themselves - the Arkansas media - are the ones who did the FOI on him. They dug under rocks to torpedo Bobby, and if Bobby were not to be torpedoed, they would torpedo the program itself. So Jeff had no choice.

I've said this a couple of times, and it was drowned out or shouted down.

Was it a concerted effort? By choice, yeah, a little bit. That's why back in April 2012, callers to radio shows were hung up on quickly when they mentioned Florida radio reporting Urban Meyer diddling a student secretary in the Gator football office. Hog fans, hung up on calling Hog radio, for mentioning Meyer.

So that bottom line? Florida media squashed the Florida radio reports and Jeremy Foley was tossed a softball to save face. Coverup? Maybe. Could that same thing happen in Arkansas? Sure, if we didn't have media running around calling Bobby a Nazi.

And this post will go nowhere because there are too many media types on here. Hell, I remember only weeks ago where at PTB here was accusing fans of the FOI on Bobby. 

Question B;  Please list a program that suffered the same problems as Arkansas and then list facts as to how that program faced them.  Please limit yourself to teams that were having spring practice when the coach was fired.

Bama fired Price and hired Shula. Similar circumstances. Shula sucked.






I supported Bobby.

I support Jeff.

I support Bret.

Nutt should have been fired in 2004... another story no one ever talks about... so we're still reeling from bad decisions a decade ago.

...now I'm rambling. Sir Oinksalot will understand. 

[Kenny Hawgins]

Rational discussion?  On Hogville?

Where am I?  What's going on here?

[DeltaBoy]

Facts Jeff Long tanked Pitt and is Tanking the UA football program in spite of raising millions of dollars and building such nice facilities .

Facts Jeff Long fired the winners coach in resent history and hired a clown to take the job before he hires a Big 10 guy who writes him a nice note about having integrity.

Fact we passed on GUS at least 2 times and he got that COW SCHOOL in the NC game.

[BPsTheMan]

...and Mr. Irwin, please spare me the facts leading up to "why Nutt was not fired in 2004," and thus why the program went on a multiple-year spiral of being held hostage.

Lindsay thought this, and the BOT considered that, and yada yada yada.

I'm saying the lack of action should not have friggin happened, and it's the worst case of tyrannical control of a college football program in history. It opened up numerous fingers in the pie, and splintered our fan base worse than any other that I can think of. 

It should not have happened... and yet to this day, no one has been called out on it.

That's because too many people attend the same parties and kiss the same asses. We're a circle jerk.

[cypert2]

Facts Jeff Long tanked Pitt and is Tanking the UA football program in spite of raising millions of dollars and building such nice facilities .

Facts Jeff Long fired the winners coach in resent history and hired a clown to take the job before he hires a Big 10 guy who writes him a nice note about having integrity.

Fact we passed on GUS at least 2 times and he got that COW SCHOOL in the NC game.

That pretty well sums it up, except maybe the firing Petrino part. BP pretty much left him no choice. He really fired himself.

[TOM "tbw1"]

Delta, why is he held in esteem by his peers and his superiors?

[Jamie Jones]

Facts Jeff Long tanked Pitt and is Tanking the UA football program in spite of raising millions of dollars and building such nice facilities .

Facts Jeff Long fired the winners coach in resent history and hired a clown to take the job before he hires a Big 10 guy who writes him a nice note about having integrity.

Fact we passed on GUS at least 2 times and he got that COW SCHOOL in the NC game.

So, you think Jeff Long is the lone decision maker where hiring and firing coaches are concerned? And you also think that if he is, his decision making will never come into question by the PTB who are responsible for the bottom line at U of A?

[SA Hog Fan]

Fact.  Keeping Bobby would have opened up the university to litigation regarding fair hiring practices. The only choice was to fire him. Any other discussion of whether he should or should not have been fired is academic.  Hiring JLS was a bad decision but was only a stop gap designed to buy time to find the best coach. I will not offer my opinion as to who is/was the best coach.

[WilsonHog]

Delta, why is he held in esteem by his peers and his superiors?

Can I weigh in?

[chortle]

Fact.  Keeping Bobby would have opened up the university to litigation regarding fair hiring practices. The only choice was to fire him. Any other discussion of whether he should or should not have been fired is academic.  Hiring JLS was a bad decision but was only a stop gap designed to buy time to find the best coach. I will not offer my opinion as to who is/was the best coach.

Except that Long signed off on Jessica's hiring, and was on the hook too.

And for him to plead ignorant that he knew nothing of what is going on is, well, ignorant.

[bphi11ips]

Delta, why is he held in esteem by his peers and his superiors?

Why was Richard Nixon held in high esteem for so long?  This a rhetorical question having nothing to do with Long.

[SA Hog Fan]

Except that Long signed off on Jessica's hiring, and was on the hook too.

And for him to plead ignorant that he knew nothing of what is going on is, well, ignorant.

That is the definition of conjecture.

[Hogfaniam]

Except that Long signed off on Jessica's hiring, and was on the hook too.

And for him to plead ignorant that he knew nothing of what is going on is, well, ignorant.

I still say its why Garrick McGee left so abruptly.

[BPsTheMan]

Facts Jeff Long tanked Pitt and is Tanking the UA football program in spite of raising millions of dollars and building such nice facilities .

Facts Jeff Long fired the winners coach in resent history and hired a clown to take the job before he hires a Big 10 guy who writes him a nice note about having integrity.

Fact we passed on GUS at least 2 times and he got that COW SCHOOL in the NC game.

another case of not drilling down

[BPsTheMan]

Can I weigh in?

If you don't go back to 2004, I'd rather you didn't.

[bwbcpa]

Can I weigh in?

Please do.

[TOM "tbw1"]

Can I weigh in?

I would hope so.

[chortle]

I still say its why Garrick McGee left so abruptly.

And you would be correct.

(And I guess I can say his name now that he no longer coaches here, but it came from Tim Horton's mouth)

[TOM "tbw1"]

Facts Jeff Long tanked Pitt and is Tanking the UA football program in spite of raising millions of dollars and building such nice facilities .

Facts Jeff Long fired the winners coach in resent history and hired a clown to take the job before he hires a Big 10 guy who writes him a nice note about having integrity.

Fact we passed on GUS at least 2 times and he got that COW SCHOOL in the NC game.

Please answer the original question as to why Long is held in high favor by his superiors and peers;

[ricepig]

Please answer the original question as to why Long is held in high favor by his superiors and peers;

Geez, it's Delta Boy, don't expect a retort.

[TOM "tbw1"]

Why was Richard Nixon held in high esteem for so long?  This a rhetorical question having nothing to do with Long.

I disagree.  Nixon was not held in high esteem by his peers.  Wide range of opinions among his peers.

[BPsTheMan]

And you would be correct.

(And I guess I can say his name now that he no longer coaches here, but it came from Tim Horton's mouth)

LOL! Who cares!! That's junior high girls text message fodder bro!

This answers some huge question? Ha!

[Fatty McGee]

Question A:  Many Arkansas fans are angry because he fired Bobby Petrino, others because he is not from Arkansas.  Yet he seems to have the support of the Chancellor, the President and BOT while also having the respect of his peers.  Why?

When you use terms like "many" without more, you're not really giving facts.  Hard to respond to something like that.  For example, the better question might be "A few Hog fans seem to be very upset with Jeff Long despite the fact that most college football observers and Hog fans think he did the right thing.  Why are these people so disgruntled?"

[Oliver]

Please answer the original question as to why Long is held in high favor by his superiors and peers;

He brings good publicity to the University.  Puff Pieces. 

All the crap I don't care about as a fan but that the media camera's do care about.

[Boardon Hamsay]

most splintered fan base in the history of college football possibly 

Bob Shields will put in all in perspective for us very soon.

I would agree with this. Seems like a lot of different agendas and they all seem to be more about saying, "yeah, I was right" than anything else. Pity.

[TOM "tbw1"]

He brings good publicity to the University.  Puff Pieces. 

All the crap I don't care about as a fan but that the media camera's do care about.

Thank you for an honest answer.

[BPsTheMan]

...dancing around the symptoms...

[TOM "tbw1"]

When you use terms like "many" without more, you're not really giving facts.  Hard to respond to something like that.  For example, the better question might be "A few Hog fans seem to be very upset with Jeff Long despite the fact that most college football observers and Hog fans think he did the right thing.  Why are these people so disgruntled?"

Then proceed with your answer. Sir.

[Fatty McGee]

Then proceed with your answer. Sir.

No one can give you a "factual" answer about why someone is or is not popular with some unknown number of fans.  If you don't want opinions, then there are no answers for you other than people can say why THEY like him/don't like him.

[TOM "tbw1"]

Clearly, his peers and superiors don't give a flip about winning.

Please list those facts that make it clear.

[UA1985]

Mixed bag:
(1) Long was right to fire Petrino (had no choice since Petrino abused his power to line up a promotion for his mistress).

(2) Long was grossly negligent in hiring John L. for a one-year stint (this equates to killing recruiting because 4 and 5 star kids don't routinely sign with lame duck 70-year-old coaches)

(3) Long was right to hire Bielema. He is smart enough to know that he had a free pass this season to lose as many games as he wants to lose. He will recruit better than Nutt or Petrino and he is a proven winner in a conference where he never had the best talent.

(4) It appears Long is doing a good job raising money, which (if true) is a huge plus.

Overall grade for Long thus far: "B." He would get an "A" if he hadn't lost his mind in 2012 when he hired a lame duck, bankrupt, senile coach, which absolutely killed recruiting.

[BPsTheMan]

bad timing Tom

the BCS show starts in ten minutes and people are typing out their brainwashed diatribes on Word documents ready to copy and paste to new threads as we speak

462 new threads on the way in the next hour - FYI

[WilsonHog]

The paradigm has shifted.

There was a time that athletic departments were run by ex-coaches. Those ex-coaches had men in their circle of influence, men who gave large amounts of money to help fund the programs. In exchange for those contributions, the power brokers wanted more than good seats - they wanted influence. They wanted a seat at the table, and they got it.

That landscape started changing, not ironically, at Vanderbilt. Perhaps due to all of the negative publicity from universities going through scandal after scandal, university presidents started taking a greater interest in what happened on the athletic side of campus. This was also about the same time that rivers of money began flowing through college football. It started at UA with John White, who was not the athletic-friendly chancellor that his predecessor, Dan Ferritor, was. JFB was eased out the door and an AD was hired who better fit the new profile of a CEO-type athletic director. The men who formed JFB's inner circle - some called them the Good Ol' Boy Network - were on the outside looking in. Long-time department employees with Arkansas ties were purged in favor of guys who were all-business and had no connection to anyone.

Within that context, Jeff Long is exactly what his direct supervisors want - a front-man for the athletic department who says and does the right things, who can deliver a message that best represents the UA, and who can keep the outside politicos at bay.

[12247]

Tom, I'll giver a shot.  Why was Nutt elected coach of the year twice while he coached us???  You really think Nutt was worthy just cause his peersw voted for him.  Here is a dog of a coach being elected twice as SEC coach of the year.  How can any AD anywhere not support Jeff Long in what he did by firing Petrino.  There is no other answer than full support that would be acceptable to the public image.  Not reality mind you but the image.  Upper management cannot support any other position than full suppport for the firing even if they wanted to.  By the way, I support the firing of Petrino.  Firing Petrino, in my opinion, was not the down fall of the football program.

In my opinion, the AD of the sports program is a manager.  He manages the program and ramrods the underlings and makes the major decisions along with whom ever above him wishes to get involved.  Jeff Long was caught totally off guard by the 4-1-12 happenings.  A top manager is never caught totally offguard.  Though in a tough spot, a great manager would know the personalties of most of his underlings like Petrino and JLS.  To know those men would tell a great manager that Smile Smith could not follow Fire and Brimstone Petrino.  That would be no choice, not even considered. 
It matters not that there may not be another University thats ever faced losing a HC at exactly that timeframe, during spring practice.  It is belived by many that Long had no choice but in fact, he had many.  Every HC and assistant in the NFL would be available to approach.  Every lower tier HC in college could be considered.  In fact, we had a Guy dying to be considered, Butch Davis.  He had been cleared by the NCAA for the happenings at NC. 
While the timing was awful, it is simply untrue that there were just no choices.  But lets assume there really wasn't any choices.  A good manager knows you do not fire what you got until you have his replacement in hand.  You BS Petrino, drag the situation out until the timing suits you and then can his ass. 

It matters not where Jeff Long came from or where he got his education in sports.  He needed to know the history of Arkansas.  He needed to know the history of the SEC.  He needed to know the recruiting abilities of Arkansas, the school.  Frank could have told him its about 7th in the SEC and thats a fact.

  Being a football man, a great AD (manager), he should have known that trying the BAMA/LSU approach to winning at Arkansas would be very difficult.  You do not enter plow horses in the Derby nor do you put Derby winners in harness and plow.  Winning Championships with players who are rated 7th to 14th against players who are rated 1st to 4th just isn't likely.  A good manager would know that. 

So my answer to Question A:  It doesn't matter what others or we think of our AD.  What matters is how well our manager does his job here at ARkansas.  Our AD had very little to do with hiring Petrino.  Our AD seemed to have a great deal to do with hiring JLS and that was fail all the way.  Now thats a fact and you asked for facts.  Our AD takes credit for hiring BB.  So far thats fail.  It may be better eventually but your thread is right now.  From the football standpoint, our AD is a loser so far and thats a fact.

Question 2:  I do not know of any University thats had the near exact same thing happen to them.  I submit it doesn't matter.  Its not that our AD got crapped on, its what did he do about it.  In my opinion, as to the football program, hes only made a bad situation worse and I believe the facts are there to back that up.  I felt then and I still feel there were better options that a great AD (manager) would have known about and acted on.

[bphi11ips]

I disagree.  Nixon was not held in high esteem by his peers.  Wide range of opinions among his peers.

How many Jeff Long peers have you spoken to?

[Chief Mac]

I still say its why Garrick McGee left so abruptly.

Maybe that or maybe Garrick was dipping his quil in the company ink as well....or so the rumor goes

[TOM "tbw1"]

The paradigm has shifted.

There was a time that athletic departments were run by ex-coaches. Those ex-coaches had men in their circle of influence, men who gave large amounts of money to help fund the programs. In exchange for those contributions, the power brokers wanted more than good seats - they wanted influence. They wanted a seat at the table, and they got it.

That landscape started changing, not ironically, at Vanderbilt. Perhaps due to all of the negative publicity from universities going through scandal after scandal, university presidents started taking a greater interest in what happened on the athletic side of campus. This was about the same time that rivers of money began flowing through college football. It started at UA with John White, who was not the athletic-friendly chancellor that his predecessor, Dan Ferritor, was. JFB was eased out the door and an AD was hired who better fit the new profile of a CEO-type athletic director. The men who formed JFB's inner circle - some called them the Good Ol' Boy Network - were on the outside looking in. Long-time department employees with Arkansas ties were purged in favor of guys who were all-business and had no connection to anyone.

Within that context, Jeff Long is exactly what his direct supervisors want - a front-man for the athletic department who says and does the right things, who can deliver a message that best represents the UA, and who can keep the outside politicos at bay.

All true.  Wilson, you have had and still do have the responsibility for hiring people.  What did you look for first and foremost?

[FrozenHam]

That is the definition of conjecture.

+1 Right?  The OP asked for a rational discussion based on facts. 

I am pleased with the job JL is doing at the UofA.  I like his hires, even Smith.  While 2012 was atrocious, I was on board with using Smith as a fill in. 

As UA1985 points out, terminating Petrino, hiring Anderson & Bielema, and his prodigious fundraising speak to Long's success as AD.  His appointment as president of the College Football Playoff selection committee provides additional testimony to his efficacy and esteem.

[TOM "tbw1"]

How many Jeff Long peers have you spoken to?

None, of course.  However, it seems to be that the only criticism comes from some Arkansas and nowhere else. 

[BPsTheMan]

The paradigm has shifted.

There was a time that athletic departments were run by ex-coaches. Those ex-coaches had men in their circle of influence, men who gave large amounts of money to help fund the programs. In exchange for those contributions, the power brokers wanted more than good seats - they wanted influence. They wanted a seat at the table, and they got it.

That landscape started changing, not ironically, at Vanderbilt. Perhaps due to all of the negative publicity from universities going through scandal after scandal, university presidents started taking a greater interest in what happened on the athletic side of campus. This was also about the same time that rivers of money began flowing through college football. It started at UA with John White, who was not the athletic-friendly chancellor that his predecessor, Dan Ferritor, was. JFB was eased out the door and an AD was hired who better fit the new profile of a CEO-type athletic director. The men who formed JFB's inner circle - some called them the Good Ol' Boy Network - were on the outside looking in. Long-time department employees with Arkansas ties were purged in favor of guys who were all-business and had no connection to anyone.

Within that context, Jeff Long is exactly what his direct supervisors want - a front-man for the athletic department who says and does the right things, who can deliver a message that best represents the UA, and who can keep the outside politicos at bay.

This is some truth mixed in with a generally wrong assumption.

And of course, it's the Arkansas media line.

The GOBN and JFB, in that order as it were, should have fired Nutt in 2004. And they had the ability. And they did not do it.

Again, mostly wrong assumption.

So while we drown in circular reasoning, we keep blaming the new guy who was brought in to take down the GOBN.

[bphi11ips]

None, of course.  However, it seems to be that the only criticism comes from some Arkansas and nowhere else. 

Never assume a politician is highly regarded among peers.  Politics has no room for such luxuries.

[WilsonHog]

This is some truth mixed in with a generally wrong assumption.

And of course, it's the Arkansas media line.

The GOBN and JFB, in that order as it were, should have fired Nutt in 2004. And they had the ability. And they did not do it.

Again, mostly wrong assumption.

So while we drown in circular reasoning, we keep blaming the new guy who was brought in to take down the GOBN.

So what is the faulty assumption?

[cypert2]

Question A.  I have no idea why he has the respect of the powers that be and his peers. The basketball team can't even make the NIT and the football team is a joke. Looks as though the powers that be and his peers have lower expectations than the average Arkansas fan.

[WilsonHog]

All true.  Wilson, you have had and still do have the responsibility for hiring people.  What did you look for first and foremost?

In my profession, first and foremost, someone with a heart for kids. Someone with maturity and judgment. Someone who has presence.

[Lake City Hog]

The fact that any of you actually believe that Petrino was hiring his mistress unknown to the athletic administration just blows my mind. Supposedly he was caught with her when he "bumped" DGB on a university trip. Now if she was traveling with Petrino just how many people at the University would have to know about it?

And as far as her hiring, didn't Long actually fast track the process? Are you people so naive that you think this stuff doesn't go on in a lot of places and the old blind eye is turned. My guess is that all of the coaches, secretaries and even the administrators knew exactly what was going on. The public embarrassment and probably some behind the scenes issues with BIG money changed the dynamic and the rest is history!

[hoghearted]

Tom, I'll giver a shot.  Why was Nutt elected coach of the year twice while he coached us???  You really think Nutt was worthy just cause his peersw voted for him.  Here is a dog of a coach being elected twice as SEC coach of the year.  How can any AD anywhere not support Jeff Long in what he did by firing Petrino.  There is no other answer than full support that would be acceptable to the public image.  Not reality mind you but the image.  Upper management cannot support any other position than full suppport for the firing even if they wanted to.  By the way, I support the firing of Petrino.  Firing Petrino, in my opinion, was not the down fall of the football program.

In my opinion, the AD of the sports program is a manager.  He manages the program and ramrods the underlings and makes the major decisions along with whom ever above him wishes to get involved.  Jeff Long was caught totally off guard by the 4-1-12 happenings.  A top manager is never caught totally offguard.  Though in a tough spot, a great manager would know the personalties of most of his underlings like Petrino and JLS.  To know those men would tell a great manager that Smile Smith could not follow Fire and Brimstone Petrino.  That would be no choice, not even considered. 
It matters not that there may not be another University thats ever faced losing a HC at exactly that timeframe, during spring practice.  It is belived by many that Long had no choice but in fact, he had many.  Every HC and assistant in the NFL would be available to approach.  Every lower tier HC in college could be considered.  In fact, we had a Guy dying to be considered, Butch Davis.  He had been cleared by the NCAA for the happenings at NC. 
While the timing was awful, it is simply untrue that there were just no choices.  But lets assume there really wasn't any choices.  A good manager knows you do not fire what you got until you have his replacement in hand.  You BS Petrino, drag the situation out until the timing suits you and then can his ass. 

It matters not where Jeff Long came from or where he got his education in sports.  He needed to know the history of Arkansas.  He needed to know the history of the SEC.  He needed to know the recruiting abilities of Arkansas, the school.  Frank could have told him its about 7th in the SEC and thats a fact.

  Being a football man, a great AD (manager), he should have known that trying the BAMA/LSU approach to winning at Arkansas would be very difficult.  You do not enter plow horses in the Derby nor do you put Derby winners in harness and plow.  Winning Championships with players who are rated 7th to 14th against players who are rated 1st to 4th just isn't likely.  A good manager would know that. 

So my answer to Question A:  It doesn't matter what others or we think of our AD.  What matters is how well our manager does his job here at ARkansas.  Our AD had very little to do with hiring Petrino.  Our AD seemed to have a great deal to do with hiring JLS and that was fail all the way.  Now thats a fact and you asked for facts.  Our AD takes credit for hiring BB.  So far thats fail.  It may be better eventually but your thread is right now.  From the football standpoint, our AD is a loser so far and thats a fact.

Question 2:  I do not know of any University thats had the near exact same thing happen to them.  I submit it doesn't matter.  Its not that our AD got crapped on, its what did he do about it.  In my opinion, as to the football program, hes only made a bad situation worse and I believe the facts are there to back that up.  I felt then and I still feel there were better options that a great AD (manager) would have known about and acted on.

Such a great post. +1

[BPsTheMan]

So what is the faulty assumption?

that the GOBN was powerless - they were far from it, because again, we are one big circle jerk

that we've never drilled further than "John White" to answer who brought him in - a bunch of liberals from Berkley maybe? No.

that managers can only dictate proper management down the line if they know they have a direct line to get past obstacles, which again shows the power of the GOBN and how they were not to be denied, whoever the chancellor was

Hell, Nutt couldn't even discipline his own players. He had no balls. Matt Jones and Peyton Hillis, as kids, needed to be brought down some notches. Great players who were kids who needed to be held accountable on some things. What did Nutt do? He gave them the childish silent treatment crap and never went to the source to solve the problem. Why was Nutt allowed to act this way? Because the GOBN ran interference between him and upper management.

John White was toast the second he stepped on campus, because he was not willing to deal with it.

Pawning things off on upper management to save face for the GOBN is the story of the past decade here.