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Author Topic: Discussion on One and Done's  (Read 1210 times)

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-Blu

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Discussion on One and Done's
« on: November 13, 2013, 09:27:44 am »

I was listening to Mike and Mike this morning and they were discussing Andrew Wiggans saying publicly that he's only staying at Kansas for one year.  The Mike Greenberg made a good point and said, by him doing that he basically went against the mission statement of every school, because the goal of every school is to educate kids and for them to graduate and get a degree.  And he also stated what's the point of having a D-League if your going to have the One and Done rule.

I agree with Mike on this, it makes no sense to have this one and done rule especially when the NBA has a minor league in place with the D-League. If a kid "needs money" or doesn't think school is for them then let them go directly from high school to the D-League, if they make it there, then can go to the NBA from there.  But, it should be a rule in a effect if they take step on campus, they aren't eligible for the NBA draft for 3 years.  Now, if their grades suffer or if they get kicked out, then they can still go to the D-League or overseas, but it would have to be 3 years from the date they enrolled in school to enter NBA draft. 

I think this would make the college basketball game so much better, because right now they are trying so hard to market it, and get the ratings back up to where they use to be in the late 90s.  But, it's hard for the casual fan to get into college basketball because the "stars" change every single year.  Soon as a casual fan recognizes a name it's gone.  Can you image how hard it is for a casual Kentucky fan to keep up with their team?  On the flip side look at college football, every casual fan in America knows who Johnny Football is, and everybody tunes in to see him every week.  Even my wife knows who he is and she rarely watches sports.  Could you imagine the ratings difference if he could have left for the NFL last year?

Anybody else have any thoughts on this?
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Hogathon11

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Re: Discussion on One and Done's
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2013, 09:33:14 am »

Mike and Mike are definitely ok with the One and Done's though. If you listened to the whole thing they were bashing everyone that tweeted against the one and done rule. They just made the point that kids that come from High School baseball aren't ready for the big leagues so the minor leagues work in that situation but the NBA doesn't really have a minor league. The kids are pretty ready for the step up though. All three that played last night (Randle, Parker, Wiggins) would most likely be starting for any of the lottery draft teams from last years draft.
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sevenof400

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Re: Discussion on One and Done's
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2013, 09:38:31 am »

Of course, you realize Johnny will be leaving early as well (albeit not one and done)....

I heard part of this as well but I have always been an advocate of making the professional leagues offer meaning minor league (developmental) options to players.  It is supposed to be student-athlete after all.

I don't like what Kansas is doing but it is unfair to single them out as they are far from the only school taking this approach. 

I think the best solution is to remove all athletic scholarships from colleges and universities at all levels and return the emphasis to academic performance.  Let the kids who want to be athletes first play in a minor (or developmental) league thus making money legally. 

College basketball is a shell of what it used to be (quality wise) due to the constant turnover of players leaving early for the NBA. 
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sevenof400

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Re: Discussion on One and Done's
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2013, 09:41:04 am »

..They just made the point that kids that come from High School baseball aren't ready for the big leagues so the minor leagues work in that situation but the NBA doesn't really have a minor league.

Actually, the NBA does have a developmental league but as Mike and Mike were saying, the NBA has done so little to make this league a viable option for the one and dones that it doesn't make sense for players to pursue the developmental option.

This is what must change. 
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Hawg Red

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Re: Discussion on One and Done's
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2013, 09:51:02 am »

The quality of viability of the D-League would go up dramatically if they increased the pay for the players. It's insanely low. Anywhere from 12k to 25k per year. 25k tops. And a kid out of HS can't go overseas and develop for a year because they don't do that over there. They play the veterans first. Brandon Jennings went over to the Euroleague for a year and played less than 20 minutes a game. Nevermind the fact that the Euroleague is not where you want to develop if your goal is the NBA. The game is too different between the two leagues.

But how do team owners justify the expense of higher salaries in the D-League? I imagine most of those teams are losing money as it is.
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Kevin

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Re: Discussion on One and Done's
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2013, 09:54:58 am »

i think the nbdl has the same rules as nba. they cannot take those guys.

bottom line, the nba does not want the negative publicity of hs players coming to the nba and not making it.

nba does not care about college basketball. stern says they are not making the colleges take these kids.
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Hawg Red

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Re: Discussion on One and Done's
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2013, 10:04:10 am »

i think the nbdl has the same rules as nba. they cannot take those guys.

bottom line, the nba does not want the negative publicity of hs players coming to the nba and not making it.

nba does not care about college basketball. stern says they are not making the colleges take these kids.

Which is ridiculous because the facts say that the vast majority of those kids coming out of HS made it to the NBA and stuck around for years.
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Hogathon11

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Re: Discussion on One and Done's
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2013, 10:19:58 am »

Actually, the NBA does have a developmental league but as Mike and Mike were saying, the NBA has done so little to make this league a viable option for the one and dones that it doesn't make sense for players to pursue the developmental option.

This is what must change.

Agreed, my wording was definitely off.
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Hawg Red

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Re: Discussion on One and Done's
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2013, 10:25:42 am »

NBA does not have a true minor league as some teams are still sharing D-League affiliates. It's reasonable to project that the D-League will be a true minor league with all 30 NBA teams having their own D-League affiliate within 5 or so years.
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nwahogfan1

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Re: Discussion on One and Done's
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2013, 11:28:54 am »

I like the 3 year rule if they deside to go to college.  Isnt that like baseball? 


Of course some might decide to go JUCO who doesnt obey by the same rules.

But I do think you would get kids that are interested in college and not just a NCAAT ring and gone.
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Kevin

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Re: Discussion on One and Done's
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2013, 11:51:05 am »

Which is ridiculous because the facts say that the vast majority of those kids coming out of HS made it to the NBA and stuck around for years.

all it takes is one leon smith, he erases all the kevin garnett's, lebron james'
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Boston RedHogs

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Re: Discussion on One and Done's
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2013, 11:56:57 am »

I agree with Mike on this, it makes no sense to have this one and done rule especially when the NBA has a minor league in place with the D-League. If a kid "needs money" or doesn't think school is for them then let them go directly from high school to the D-League, if they make it there, then can go to the NBA from there.  But, it should be a rule in a effect if they take step on campus, they aren't eligible for the NBA draft for 3 years.  Now, if their grades suffer or if they get kicked out, then they can still go to the D-League or overseas, but it would have to be 3 years from the date they enrolled in school to enter NBA draft. 




I agree with you.  I hate the one and done rule.  It, above anything else, has diluted the college game.

But you can't have a caveat that states if their grades aren't up to par, they can go to the NBA-DL or overseas.  First off, I'd be shocked if the real blue-chip, one and dones, are truly making the grades to begin with.  Second, that rule leaves it open for a kid to squeak by for one semester, blow off schoolwork the second semester, and play the full season.  His grades would affect year 2, but he doesn't care because he's allowed to go pro under those rules.

The other thing you have to keep in mind is the NBA is driving this more than the NCAA.
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trashcan maN

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Re: Discussion on One and Done's
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2013, 12:03:07 pm »

Each D-League team is associated with an NBA team. Wouldn't players still have to enter the draft straight out of HS to play in D-League?

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-Blu

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Re: Discussion on One and Done's
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2013, 12:47:11 pm »


I agree with you.  I hate the one and done rule.  It, above anything else, has diluted the college game.

But you can't have a caveat that states if their grades aren't up to par, they can go to the NBA-DL or overseas.  First off, I'd be shocked if the real blue-chip, one and dones, are truly making the grades to begin with.  Second, that rule leaves it open for a kid to squeak by for one semester, blow off schoolwork the second semester, and play the full season.  His grades would affect year 2, but he doesn't care because he's allowed to go pro under those rules.

The other thing you have to keep in mind is the NBA is driving this more than the NCAA.

Think you misunderstood what I was saying.  He wouldn't be able to blow off grades, because their would be no benefit.  Let's say he plays one year of college, then get's in trouble or he doesn't have the grades to play, then he would have to either go to the D-League or Overseas for 2 years, he wouldn't be eligible to enter the NBA draft.  That's not the ideal situation because neither the D-League or Overseas is going to give him the exposure and stage as college scene, so it would be in his benefit to keep his grades up to stay at least 3 years in school.  That reason I just gave you is the reason why more kids right now don't just go directly from high school to play overseas or why kids now don't just play one year of college ball and go to D-League if they aren't quite a first round pick.

Basically all I'm saying is, if they wanna go pro after high school let them, but if they step on a college campus they can't enter the NBA draft for 3 years.  It's kinda turning the whole "College" thing into a joke when kids just use it as a 1 year NBA tryout.  If you intend to go to college, go to college and stay there for at least 3 years and get your degree or be close to getting it.  If your main goal is to go pro, then if your ready after high school do it.  The NBA kinda screwed NCAA over by that whole "One and Done" rule.
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ErieHog

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Re: Discussion on One and Done's
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2013, 01:22:50 pm »

I'll never understand the logic of 'Let's prohibit the best players available from playing college basketball!  Giving that playing time to distinctly less talented guys is going to improve the quality of our already declining product!'    It is among the most nonsensical arguments made in sports.  You can't dilute the college game by keeping the best young players from playing in the NBA-- if anything you can only serve to strengthen it.

You won't see  a 3 year rule, because it gives  a lawsuit against the NBA time to process, and for the NBA to lose.  It isn't baseball.  There is a real history of potential earnings loss that potential lawsuits can point to, to show a monetary injury from such a policy.   There have already been kids that have been trying to expedite lawsuits against the 1 year clock, but they've all taken so long as to be rendered moot.   

Kids have already gone to Europe rather than play a year of college ball, and then moved on successfully to the NBA-- Brandon Jennings did just that, spending a season in Italy-- between his endorsement and salary, Jennings earned an extra $3.65 million USD by bypassing the NCAA.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 05:38:15 pm by ErieHog »
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sooiepig_12

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Re: Discussion on One and Done's
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2013, 01:37:45 pm »

I doubt there are many casual fans in the Bluegrass state, but I get your point.  I love college basketball though and the 1 and done rule doesn't bother me.  I like the fact that I get to see the best talent out of High School play college basketball even if it is only for one year.  I guess I can understand it from the NBA's point of view too.  Those talented players get to spend one year with coaches like K, Williams, Self and as bad as I hate to say it Calipari.
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Brass Knob

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Re: Discussion on One and Done's
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2013, 02:55:41 pm »

Each D-League team is associated with an NBA team. Wouldn't players still have to enter the draft straight out of HS to play in D-League?



The D league has their own draft I believe. However, if a player comes right out of high school and enters the D League draft he is essentially only assigned to that team for one year I believe. After that year he would be free to enter the NBA draft like any other prospect.
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Brass Knob

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Re: Discussion on One and Done's
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2013, 02:58:47 pm »

i think the nbdl has the same rules as nba. they cannot take those guys.

bottom line, the nba does not want the negative publicity of hs players coming to the nba and not making it.

nba does not care about college basketball. stern says they are not making the colleges take these kids.

I think you can forgo college and enter the D league. If I am remembering correctly Memphis lost a borderline 5 star prospect like this in Pastner's first recruiting class. I believe his name was Latavious Williams.

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Hawg Red

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Re: Discussion on One and Done's
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2013, 03:15:59 pm »

I think you can forgo college and enter the D league. If I am remembering correctly Memphis lost a borderline 5 star prospect like this in Pastner's first recruiting class. I believe his name was Latavious Williams.

You're correct. You can play in the D-League out of HS but must go through the NBA draft process before being eligible to play in the NBA. This counts for college players as well. Glen Rice Jr was drafted in the 2nd round of June's draft after playing in the D-League for what would have been his senior season because he was dismissed from Georgia Tech after the 2012 NBA Draft. He tore up the D-League and many wondered why he never received a call-up but he was not eligible to play in the NBA.
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sevenof400

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Re: Discussion on One and Done's
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2013, 06:42:27 pm »

I'll never understand the logic of 'Let's prohibit the best players available from playing college basketball! 

Erie,

It is supposed to be student - athlete.  Yeah, I know….I am an idealist on this point but I'd much rather have players who stick around for almost all of their college experience represent my school rather than itinerants using my facilities as a springboard to the next level of play. 


Giving that playing time to distinctly less talented guys is going to improve the quality of our already declining product!'    It is among the most nonsensical arguments made in sports.  You can't dilute the college game by keeping the best young players from playing in the NBA-- if anything you can only serve to strengthen it.

The lack of anything that even looks like team basketball at the college level turned me off the game a decade ago.  Teams are what makes college basketball the spectacle it was and teams cannot be formed by vagabonds.   


You won't see  a 3 year rule, because it gives  a lawsuit against the NBA time to process, and for the NBA to lose.  It isn't baseball.  There is a real history of potential earnings loss that potential lawsuits can point to, to show a monetary injury from such a policy.   There have already been kids that have been trying to expedite lawsuits against the 1 year clock, but they've all taken so long as to be rendered moot.   

I disagree here because like anything else, a 3 year rule could be established through the bargaining process between players and the NBA.  Whether or not the players and / or the NBA would favor such a move is another consideration all together…..

Players who want to enter the NBA out of high school could still do so but only if they did NOT enter college.  I think such an arrangement (agreed at through collective bargaining) would survive any legal challenge.  I also believe this would help college basketball by keeping players in college for a few years and building teams. 

Kids have already gone to Europe rather than play a year of college ball, and then moved on successfully to the NBA-- Brandon Jennings did just that, spending a season in Italy-- between his endorsement and salary, Jennings earned an extra $3.65 million USD by bypassing the NCAA.

But he is an exception to the norm.  This also underscores the need for the NBA to revise/update/modify the NBA Developmental League. 
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ErieHog

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Re: Discussion on One and Done's
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2013, 07:13:03 pm »

Erie,

It is supposed to be student - athlete.  Yeah, I know….I am an idealist on this point but I'd much rather have players who stick around for almost all of their college experience represent my school rather than itinerants using my facilities as a springboard to the next level of play. 


If you believe in the student athlete, why are you against them getting even a single year of college education, or even the opportunity for it,  under a controlled and structured environment that gives them the best possible opportunity for success, as well as giving them the best dry run for what a career in basketball is likely to entail?


Quote
The lack of anything that even looks like team basketball at the college level turned me off the game a decade ago.  Teams are what makes college basketball the spectacle it was and teams cannot be formed by vagabonds.   

There is a *ton* of team basketball played at the college level-- it just largely isn't the same kind of team basketball played 20 years ago.  It looks a lot different, but it is there.     A change in style does not mean that the team game is gone.   

Quote
I disagree here because like anything else, a 3 year rule could be established through the bargaining process between players and the NBA.  Whether or not the players and / or the NBA would favor such a move is another consideration all together…..

What interest does the NBA have in opening itself to litigation, let alone cutting its own throat from a cost-managed young talent perspective?   They can't bargain with players collectively, because no single set of players can make a commitment for classes yet to come.  It'd be sheer insanity.

Quote

Players who want to enter the NBA out of high school could still do so but only if they did NOT enter college.  I think such an arrangement (agreed at through collective bargaining) would survive any legal challenge.  I also believe this would help college basketball by keeping players in college for a few years and building teams. 

Any arrangement like that would be crushed; the amateurism model of the NCAA is wobbly enough, but showing real damages to players who enter college lesser regarded, but who blossom into potential pros is an easy, easy case, with potential damages that climb into the tens of millions.

Quote
But he is an exception to the norm.  This also underscores the need for the NBA to revise/update/modify the NBA Developmental League. 

Why?   The NBA has a system that is ideal, from their perspective;  they get to set base rules for new talent entry that are legally nearly impossible to challenge.  They force most players to at least have a year in a semi-structured environment, with the opportunity to get at least a fraction of an education,  against increasingly skilled competition,  and during which they get an extended evaluation-- and if a kid wants to opt out, they still have a vise-like control of eligibility for the draft emerging from the D-League.



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