Some of those '13-14 SEC basketball out of conference losses that affect RPI

[jbcarol]

South Carolina  68,  Manhattan  86  Dec. 17 in Columbia, SC

[jbcarol]

Bama  67,  Wichita State  72  Dec. 17 in Tuscaloosa

[jbcarol]

Tennessee  58,  North Carolina State  65  Dec. 18 in Knoxville

[jbcarol]

South Carolina  68,  South Carolina Upstate  74  Dec. 19 in Columbia

[Hooch]

Would it be fair to say that Ole Miss, Arkansas, Kentucky, LSU, Florida, and Mizzou are the only teams in the SEC without an absolutely awful loss. 

I follow the Hogs, the SEC and the power conferences, but I really couldn't tell you who is going to win the Sun belt, it looks to me that 10 of the 16 teams have really taken some tough losses. 

[99toLife]

I would say that is fair at this point.

[jbcarol]

Mizzou  64,  Illinois  65  Dec. 21 in St. Louis

[jbcarol]

A&M  52,  Oklahoma  64  Dec. 21 in Houston

[jbcarol]

Bama  74,  Xavier  77  Dec. 21 in Tuscaloosa

[jbcarol]

Ole Miss  76,  Mercer  79  Dec. 22 in Oxford

[jbcarol]

South Carolina  54,  Boise St.  80  Dec. 23 in Honolulu

[jbcarol]

Mississippi State  66,  UNLV  82  Dec 23 in Las Vegas

[jbcarol]

Bama  67,  UCLA  75  Dec. 28 in Los Angelese

UGa  70,  Colorado  84  Dec. 28 in Boulder

[ErieHog]

Eventually, this is all going to bleed over into tournament projections.  The league is going to end up 4 or 5 bid again.

[jbcarol]

Vandy  49,  St. Louis  57   Dec. 30 in Nashville

[jbcarol]

Texas A&M  41,  North Texas  61  Dec. 31 in College Station

[jbcarol]

Georgia  55,  George Washington  73  Jan. 3 in DC.

[jbcarol]

LSU  70,  Rhode Island  74  Jan. 4 in Baton Rouge

[jbcarol]

Ole Miss  80,  Dayton  83  OT  Jan. 4 in Oxford

[jbcarol]

SEC Out of Conference Losses prior to SEC play (RPI as of date of post):

LSU  70,  227. Rhode Island  74  Jan. 4 in Baton Rouge

Texas A&M  41,  188. North Texas  61  Dec. 31 in College Station

Bama  64,  169. South Florida  66   Dec. 7 in Tampa

166. Northwestern State  111,  Auburn  92  Nov. 15 in Auburn

State  61,  159. TCU  71  Dec. 5 in Starkville

South Carolina  68,  153. South Carolina Upstate  74  Dec. 19 in Columbia

Georgia  81,  144. Temple  83  Nov. 22 in Charleston, SC

Tennessee  70,  134. UTEP  78  Nov. 28 in Paradise Island, Bahamas

123. Georgia Tech  80,  Georgia  71  Nov. 15 in Athens

South Carolina  57,  110. Clemson  71  Nov. 17 in Clemson

Vandy  60,  95. Providence  67  Nov. 22 in St. Thomas

Mississippi State  66,  94. UNLV  82  Dec 23 in Las Vegas

Tennessee  58,  87. North Carolina State  65  Dec. 18 in Knoxville

Bama  83,  86. Drexel  85   3 OT Nov. 29 in Madison Square Garden

Georgia  65,  76. Nebraska  73  Nov. 24 in Charleston, SC (Classic)

Mississippi State  68,  75. Utah State 87  Nov. 23 in Logan

Ole Miss  58,  74. Kansas State  61  Dec. 5 in Manhattan

Ole Miss  76,  70. Mercer  79  Dec. 22 in Oxford

A&M  52,  61. SMU  55  Nov. 30 in Corpus Christi

Bama  67,  57. UCLA  75  Dec. 28 in Los Angeles

Ole Miss  80,  52. Dayton  83  OT  Jan. 4 in Oxford

South Carolina  68,  51. Manhattan  86  Dec. 17 in Columbia, SC

Arkansas 77,  50. Cal Bears  85  Nov. 25 in Lahaina, Maui

Vandy  49,  49. St. Louis  57   Dec. 30 in Nashville

47. Oklahoma  82,  Alabama  73  Nov. 8 in Dallas

A&M  52,  Oklahoma  64  Dec. 21 in Houston

Vanderbilt  77,  46. Butler  85  OT  Nov. 19 in Indianapolis

Vandy  64,  44. Texas  70  Dec. 2 in Austin

Florida  64,  40. UConn  65  Dec. 2 in Storrs

Kentucky  77,  39. North Carolina  82  Dec. 14 in Chapel Hill

South Carolina  54,  32. Boise St.  80  Dec. 23 in Honolulu

Bama  64,  30. Duke  74  Nov. 27 in Madison Square Garden

29. Xavier  67,  Tennessee  63  Nov. 12 in Cincinnati

Bama  74,  Xavier  77  Dec. 21 in Tuscaloosa

Georgia  55,  26. George Washington  73  Jan. 3 in DC.

LSU  69,  18. Memphis  76  Nov. 29 at Disney/ESPN Arena in Lake Buena Vista, FL

South Carolina  64,  17. Baylor  66  Nov. 12 in Waco

Kentucky  62,  Baylor  67  Dec. 6 and 7 in Arlington

Tennessee  61,  15. Wichita State  70  Dec. 14 in Wichita

Bama  67,  Wichita State  72  Dec. 17 in Tuscaloosa

Arkansas  81,  14. Gonzaga 91  Nov. 27 in Lahaina, Maui

13. Michigan State  78, Kentucky  74  Nov. 12 in Chicago

Auburn  62,  12. Illinois  81  Dec. 8 in Atlanta

Mizzou  64,  Illinois  65  Dec. 21 in St. Louis

South Carolina  52,  11. Oklahoma State  79  Dec. 6 in Stillwater

8. Oregon  115,  Ole Miss 105  OT, Dec. 8 in Oxford

UGa  70,  7. Colorado  84  Dec. 28 in Boulder

Auburn  70,  6. Iowa State  99  Dec. 2 in Ames

LSU  90,  3. UMass  92  Nov. 12 in Amherst

2. Wisconsin  59,  Florida  53  Nov. 12 in Madison


Higher quality of losses (not as many terrible losses) than this time last year:

More of those Out of Conference losses that have a bearing on SOS and seeding in March:

325 (of 347.) Alabama A&M  59,  234. Mississippi St.  57

303. Troy  56,  Mississippi St.  53

257. Marist  50,  278. Vanderbilt  33

244. Winthrop 74,  116. Auburn 67

192. Rhode Island  78,  116. Auburn  72

180. Mercer  66,  82. Alabama  59

169. Elon  65,  210. South Carolina  53

156. Boston College  50,  Auburn  49

152. Southern  53,  88. Texas A&M  51

118. Clemson  64,  South Carolina  55

117. Loyola-Chi.  59,  Mississippi St.  51

115. DePaul  80,  Auburn  76

114. Youngstown St.  68,  160. Georgia  56

107. Providence  73,  Mississippi St.  63

104. Tulane 53,  Alabama 50

102. St. John's  89,  South Carolina  65

101. Iona  81,  Georgia  78

100. Davidson  75,  Vanderbilt  62

92. Villanova  62,  Vanderbilt  52

89. USF  64,  Georgia  53

85. Texas  69,  Mississippi St.  55

79. Georgia Tech  62,  Georgia  54

76. Indiana St.  87,  34. Ole Miss  85

71. Arizona St.  83,  73. Arkansas  68

70. Southern Miss  62,  Georgia  60

68. Murray State  79,  Auburn  59

63. Dayton  73,  Auburn 63

Dayton  81,  Alabama  76

56. North Carolina  95,  Mississippi St.  49

54. Virginia  46,  69. Tennessee  38

53. Saint Louis  70,  Texas A&M  49

50. Marquette  84,  67. LSU  80

Marquette  89,  Mississippi St.  62

47. Memphis  85,  Tennessee  80

46. Georgetown  37,  Tennessee  36

45. Middle Tennessee  65,  Ole Miss  62

Middle Tennessee  56,  Vanderbilt  52

44. Butler  68,  Vanderbilt  49

43. Oklahoma  64,  Texas A&M  54

42. UCLA  97,  17. Missouri  94

UCLA  60,  Georgia  56

40. Wisconsin  77,  Arkansas  70

39. Kansas State  67,  5. Florida  61

33. Oregon  74,  Vanderbilt  48

32. Baylor  64,  25.  Kentucky  55

30. Illinois  81,  Auburn  79

28. Boise State  89,  LSU  70

23. Notre Dame  64,  Kentucky  50

18. Oklahoma State  62,  Tennessee  45

13. Cincinnati  58,  Alabama  56

12. VCU  73,  Alabama  54

10. Arizona  65,  Florida  64

7. Indiana  66,  Georgia  53

6. Syracuse  91,  Arkansas  82

3. Louisville  84,  Missouri  61

Louisville  80,  Kentucky  77

2. Michigan  80,  Arkansas  67

1. Duke  75,  Kentucky  68

Sagarin rankings updated daily (Updated: 1/07/2013 7:03:01 AM)

[jbcarol]

Updated and FWIW, ranked by RPI as conference season kicks off.

The bad losses were worse last season.

[jbcarol]

Better non-conference schedule by the SEC as a whole mixed with fewer really bad losses, has elevated the RPI for the league members.

[jbcarol]

MrSEC: SEC is once again struggling on the RPI front.  And that's a front that weighs very heavily come Selection Sunday.

For Missouri, Tennessee, Arkansas, Ole Miss and LSU, their games against each other will be enormous in terms of their bubble hopes.  And the last thing any of those squads need are losses to the seven worst teams in the league.  With RPI rankings of 96 and below, those teams are all but dead in terms of at-large bids.

Begging for the low RPI teams to just lose for the good of the league.

[jbcarol]

From outside the SEC:

Adam Zagoria ‏@AdamZagoria 4 hrs
Crazy ESPN stat: Ohio State, Oregon, Wisconsin & Iowa State started the year a combined 58-0. Since then they are 0-14.

[jbcarol]

Clarion-Ledger: SEC basketball takes bold steps to improve; are they working?

Fifty days from Saturday, the NCAA tournament selection committee will unveil a 68-team bracket that serves as a report card of sorts for conferences nationwide. This season it will take on heightened importance for one league in particular.

Despite boasting three of the past eight national champions — more than any other league — Selection Sunday in recent years has not been kind to the Southeastern Conference, which earned just 19 tournament berths in the past five years combined. After seeing only three teams reach the tournament last season, Commissioner Mike Slive called it "unacceptable."

Slive took action. He smartly tapped Mark Whitworth to be in charge of men's basketball and hired scheduling consultant Greg Shaheen, the former NCAA tournament guru who understands the selection process as well as anyone. Shaheen gave every SEC coach a 20-page report that broke down the league's non-conference schedules the previous season and how every outcome affected the SEC's power ratings. And the SEC adopted league-wide guidelines for teams to submit non-league schedules for review and approval.

Between 2004 and 2008, the SEC averaged 5.6 NCAA tournament berths per year. The last five seasons? The SEC averaged just 3.8 berths.

C.M. Newton, the former Kentucky athletic director and current consultant to Slive, said Slive's move to create the position of associate commissioner for men's basketball for veteran staff member Whitworth was a "bold move that was badly needed."

Six teams improved their strength of non-league schedule ratings, and Whitworth expects "significant improvement" once they get a full year to review the schedules and engage in "constructive dialogues" with the 14 schools. But several SEC teams still underwhelmed on the court in non-conference play, which establishes an initial benchmark for teams and leagues.

"As long as we lose outside the league," Newton told USA TODAY Sports, "people are going to say we are an inferior product. And we are not."

Five teams — Tennessee, Missouri, Ole Miss, LSU and Arkansas — rank between 50 and 66 in the RPI. That's part of the problem — no separation among middle-of-the-pack teams. Entering this weekend, no conference has had more league games decided by four points or fewer or in overtime...

Some SEC schools need to "take on a mentality of Gonzaga, Butler and Xavier and VCU," ESPN analyst Jimmy Dykes told USA TODAY Sports. "You can't hide behind your major conference label any longer. You have to go out and schedule hungry. You have to schedule aggressively. You have to schedule with the (mind-set): We have something to prove."

Alabama's Anthony Grant played one of the nation's toughest non-conference schedules (seventh-best). Problem is, the Crimson Tide lost most of those games — to Duke, Xavier, Wichita State and UCLA — and Grant is "paying for it right now," Newton said. "A bunch of people want to get rid of him. I think he's on the hot seat in the minds of some, but not in the minds of anyone that counts."

In the eyes of Pearl and Newton, Arkansas exhibits the greatest disparity in home and road performance of any team they recall seeing. The Razorbacks beat Kentucky at home but lost to Texas A&M and Georgia on the road. Almost unbeatable at home, the Razorbacks are 2-21 in road games in coach Mike Anderson's three seasons.

"I've never seen a disparity quite like that," Pearl said. "They don't know what is going to work on the road because nothing has."

But the problem when teams reached SEC play is that upward mobility is limited. Only wins against Florida or Kentucky will result in a notable boost in the RPI.

"Kentucky and Florida get everybody's best shot because that is their game to say, 'We belong in the NCAA tournament,' " Dykes said. "They not only are getting everybody's best shot, but they are getting everybody's best shot followed by their second-best shot and their third-best shot — all piled into one game. The stress and importance and magnitude of the game, everything is amplified."

Dykes said he thought the SEC would be stronger this season. He noted that Tennessee, Arkansas, LSU and Missouri all have the potential to win a game in the NCAA tournament. But can they get to the tournament?

Lengthy analysis concludes that the SEC may improve slightly this season in terms of getting teams in the tournament and is on a slow road of gradual improvement. Some coaches are still scheduling for job security.

[jbcarol]

Jerry Tipton: Cupcake schedules hurt SEC's profile

Take away UK and Florida, the SEC teams played home games in front of crowds that, on average, filled 58.1 percent of seats. Texas A&M's Reed Arena was only 35.3 percent filled, on average.

Most puzzling is Missouri, which was ranked much of the pre-conference portion of the season. Yet, its home games drew crowds of only 49.4 percent of capacity.

Whitworth, a Lexington native charged with helping promote SEC basketball, noted scheduling as a factor. The league continues to encourage its teams to schedule non-conference games that "resonate with fans," he said.

Of course, such opponents will want a return game at their arenas in a future season. That's exactly what Whitworth and the SEC's consultant, former NCAA Tournament maven Greg Sheheen, are encouraging league teams to do to improve their post-season profiles.

"Not neutral games," Whitworth said, "but true road games."

Such games catch the eye of the NCAA Selection Committee as a true indicator of a team's ability, he said.

According to Ken Pomeroy, Texas A&M and Mississippi State played two of the three weakest non-conference schedules in Division I. Five other SEC teams — Georgia, Auburn, Ole Miss, Missouri and Arkansas — played schedules outside the toughest 200. Whitworth said the league is encouraging teams not to play any opponent with a Ratings Percentage Index outside the top 200.

Fans should see SEC teams meeting this goal beginning with the 2014-15 season, Whitworth said.

Kentucky and Florida own three of the four non-conference victories over top-25 opponents. UK beat then-No. 6 Louisville. Florida beat then-No. 13 Kansas and No. 15 Memphis. Missouri has the only other SEC victory over a ranked opponent (then-No. 18 UCLA).

Bubble teams will need to make a splash in the SEC. Tipton says that means beating Florida and/or Kentucky.

[jbcarol]

MrSEC presents the blind resume's for six SEC teams vying for the NCAA-T including Arkansas

[jbcarol]

The quantity and quality of out of conference wins and opponents have helped the SEC this season relative to the recent past. 

LSU, Tennessee, Mizzou, and Arkansas (dropped out after another home loss)  have been listed in major service bracket projections in the last couple of weeks despite the relative SEC parity this season.

Subject to change between now and mid-March.

[jbcarol]

In the lastest Joe Lunardi bracketology, LSU, Tennessee, and Mizzou are on the edge as last teams in.

No doubt, slight improvements in out of conference scheduling and performance is helping those teams at this time.

With the parity shown in league games, the SEC still could get left with 2 teams getting in but the improvement in non-conference games is helping marginal teams get the benefit of the dobut.

[jbcarol]

AL.com sports ‏@aldotcomSports ·3 hrs
Alabama losing streak continued, but its RPI improved http://ow.ly/ttYQR


YCMTSU

[jbcarol]

http://www.gogamecocks.com/2014/02/11/538466/sec-hoops-upgrade-very-much-work.html

Maintains that the SEC's effort to upgrade the basketball schedules and get more teams in the NCAA-T is a work-in-progess.  Cites Bama's willingness to schedule three tough early opponents and take it on the chin.

Bama did improve their RPI in the midst of a losing streak as a result of bold scheduling.

[jbcarol]

Nicole Auerbach ‏@NicoleAuerbach ·37 mins
NCAA selection cmte chair Ron Wellman, asked re: Colorado/Dinwiddie: "Injuries generally affect seeding more than the selection process."

Jerry Tipton ‏@JerryTipton ·16 mins
Wellman: Wins at neutral sites less valuable than "true" road games. Committee weighs whether neutral sites are truly neutral...

Jerry Tipton ‏@JerryTipton ·17 mins
Wellman reminded reporters; Won-loss in last 10 games no longer a factor in handing out bids, seeds in NCAA Tournament.

Jerry Tipton ‏@JerryTipton ·18 mins
Wellman agreed that losses within weak SEC can be  more damaging than losses within, say, Big Ten this year.

[jbcarol]

SOS Rank:

7. Kentucky
8. Tennessee
45. Florida
63. Mizzou
81. UGa
82. Arkansas
88. LSU
91. Ole Miss

[jbcarol]

RPI  SOS
4     37   Florida
12     5    Kentucky
38    65   Mizzou
54    10   Tennessee
66    90   Ole Miss
69    58   Arkansas
70    86   LSU
84    68   UGa
88    78   Vandy
117   3    Bama
127  114  A&M
151  119  Auburn
154   51  SC
186  174  State

[jbcarol]

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/21/bubble-banter-just-how-close-is-gonzaga-to-missing-the-tournament

BYU (RPI: 42, KenPom: 55) knocked off Gonzaga (RPI: 24, KenPom: 27) on Thursday night, setting up an intriguing scenario as we head into the home stretch.

The Cougars pick up their third best win of the season, which should be enough to get them clear of play-in games for now. Barring a loss to Portland or at San Diego — or an opening round exit in the WCC tournament — BYU should be dancing.

Gonzaga, on the other hand, becomes one of the most interesting cases for the selection committee. The Zags are ranked No. 25 and have a top 25 RPI. But their profile is, frankly, lacking. Their only top 50 win this season came against BYU, which will be weighed against a loss at Portland. They are 1-3 against the top 50 and 7-4 against the top 100, with the best win coming at West Virginia.

Here's the kicker: their last three games of the regular season are at San Diego, at Pacific and at Saint Mary's.

The Zags are in the tournament as of today, and they are probably in fairly comfortably. But the margin for error is much slimmer than one will realize looking at the name on their jersey and the number next to it.

[jbcarol]

Worst of SEC Out of Conference Losses prior to SEC play (RPI as of date of post):

209. Northwestern State  111,  Auburn  92  Nov. 15 in Auburn

South Carolina  68,  189. South Carolina Upstate  74  Dec. 19 in Columbia

State  61,  187. TCU  71  Dec. 5 in Starkville

A&M  41,  176. North Texas  61  Dec. 31 in College Station

Bama  64,  171. South Florida  66   Dec. 7 in Tampa

164. Georgia Tech  80,  Georgia  71  Nov. 15 in Athens

Georgia  81,  161. Temple  83  Nov. 22 in Charleston, SC

LSU  70,  160. Rhode Island  74  Jan. 4 in Baton Rouge

State  68,  132. Utah State 87  Nov. 23 in Logan

[jbcarol]

Kyle Tucker ‏@KyleTucker_CJ  2m
What might have been for UGA had it not lost to GT, Davidson and Temple (No. 145, 142 and 154 in KenPom rankings) consecutively in November.

Wes Rucker ‏@wesrucker247  3m
Georgia's troll job on SEC hoops this season is epic. Killed the RPI pre-SEC and then backed over the dead bodies by winning in SEC play.

[jbcarol]

SEC a drag

Bracketologists and/or number crunchers agree: In terms of gravitational pull, the SEC is more Pluto than Jupiter.

Joe Lunardi, ESPN's resident "bracketologist," said No. 1 Florida could slip out of a top seed should it lose a "non-Kentucky" game.

Why? "Because the coattails of the SEC won't be strong enough to carry them," he said.

Lunardi said much the same thing when asked about Georgia. The Bulldogs figure to finish third in the SEC. Yet, an NCAA Tournament bid is not assured primarily because of non-conference losses to Georgia Tech, Davidson, Temple and George Washington.

Georgia has to make amends in a weak SEC. "And the league isn't good enough to make that work easy to come by," Lunardi said. "And they're not really even that close yet."

At a minimum, Georgia needs to win out in the regular season and advance to the SEC Tournament finals to rate consideration for a bid, Lunardi said.

Tennessee commands attention because of a 35-point victory over Virginia. Yet, Lunardi said, the Vols are "one bad bounce in a close game from falling completely out of the picture."

Stats maven Ken Pomeroy ranks the SEC as the sixth-best conference.

Jerry Palm of CBSSports.com has the SEC as the seventh-best.

UK Coach John Calipari has bemoaned how in-league losses in the SEC seem more harmful than losses within another conference.

True enough, said Palm. "A loss in the SEC does hurt more than a loss in the Big 12 or Big Ten in general because you're losing to a worse team. Florida excepted, of course. Besides Florida and Kentucky, there's no success to credit."

http://www.kentucky.com/2014/03/01/3115533/uk-basketball-notebook-zone-can.html

[jbcarol]

No one is paying a higher price for non-conference losses than UGa although no individual loss was horrible. Winning three this weekend would put the early season in their past, though with a poor seeding.

Seth Emerson ‏@SethEmerson ·12 hrs
Back in November, Nebraska and Georgia played to decide 7th and 8th place in the 8-team Charleston Classic. Evidently each got better.

Seth Emerson ‏@SethEmerson ·1 hr
Column: This run by Georgia is cause for regret over the struggles of Nov./Dec., but real hope for next season. http://www.macon.com/2014/03/09/2981054/georgias-run-brings-regret-but.html ...

[jbcarol]

Jerry Palm ‏@jppalmCBS ·20 hrs
Because the other 28 games count MT @BulldawgBoy: How does Mizzou have a better chance then UGa to make the tourney when they beat em twice?

[Pigonometry]

St Joes, VCU, George Washington,  UMass, St Louis and Dayton all made it.  No way that all of these are better than the Hogs, Missouri, Minnesota and SMU. 

I don't get it.

[Danny J]

GW was a head scratcher

Also hearing the committee chair he keeps saying over and over SOS SOS SOS

[Hogeration]

I'm with you.  Thought the same thing.  6 teams is stupid.

[bphi11ips]

Demographics.

[(notOM)Rebel123]

They play good basketball.

[Hogarusa]

Those are all really good teams.  The A10 is a better conference than the SEC

[hambone]

East coast bias.

NC State also makes the field.

Been trying to point out for a while, that as long as RPI really believes that there is a difference between team 200 and 300, then there will always be a bias for the eastern teams come selection day.

RPI is rigged and so is the way SOS is figured. Quit buying it sheeple.

[Danny J]

East coast bias.

NC State also makes the field.

Been trying to point out for a while, that as long as RPI really believes that there is a difference between team 200 and 300, then there will always be a bias for the eastern teams come selection day.

RPI is rigged and so is the way SOS is figured. Quit buying it sheeple.

Exactly and has been for some time. The SEC finally figured it out and this upcoming season we are going to be padding our NON-conf schedule.

[N HOG]

East coast bias.

NC State also makes the field.

Been trying to point out for a while, that as long as RPI really believes that there is a difference between team 200 and 300, then there will always be a bias for the eastern teams come selection day.

RPI is rigged and so is the way SOS is figured. Quit buying it sheeple.

Completely agree......the system is that our horrible cupcakes are better than your horrible cupcakes. It's a sad joke that is played every year.

[jbcarol]

Bo Mattingly ‏@SportsTalkwBo ·18h
Anderson: I think our (non-con) schedule was good for this particular team. Next year it'll get tougher. But you've got to win those games.


Bama scheduled tougher but did not win the games.

UGa just did not win the games.