Hogville Info
• 9,493,814 Posts
• 388,978 Topics
• 22,018 Hogvillians
THE RULES (Read 'em!)
Quick Links
Pick'Ems:Football      Basketball      Baseball
Sister Sites:Gridiron HistoryFearless Friday
Listen NOW:Game ON 103.3 
  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Ask the Expert  (Read 15587 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

userpick

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +175/-266
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,355
Ask the Expert
« on: September 02, 2013, 09:13:03 pm »

Fellow FaGs, its with great pleasure to introduce a new member to the board. His name is Michael Martin, but will go by the name First Tee Frog on here. He's the director of instruction at Mira Vista Golf Club in Fort Worth, Texas. Without a doubt in my mind he is the best teacher around, so we are extremely lucky to have him on board. He has a wealth of knowledge on the golf swing and has agreed to answer any questions/look at videos posted. Not only is he a great teacher, he's also a hell of a player, and has competed on the web.com tour earlier this year. However, he will tell you his greatest accomplishment is that he teaches Userpick. Just kidding. Everyone please say hello and ask him anything you want. Thanks for joining us, Frog.

And he's a die hard TCU fan, so I assume you hate UT, right?
Logged

CallThemHawgs!

  • Guest
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2013, 09:15:37 pm »

First in.

Will comment more later. Dude is legit. Listen up folks.
Logged

Sponsored Ad



Hogville encourages you to do business with the following...

gotyacovered

  • Moderator
  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *****
  • Karma: +121/-309
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7,837
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2013, 09:24:33 pm »

I'm gonna sticky it for now... To much jibberish and Ill bump it back down.

Welcome aboard, sir.
Logged

CallThemHawgs!

  • Guest
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2013, 11:29:46 pm »

Alright so a few of you know my background concerning golf, and some of you dont which is fine.

That being said, I was having one helluva time trying to figure things out. I have been playing on a daily basis, and hitting the range every other day at the minimum. My scores had gone down, but that was because of work around the greens, it was certainly NOT from better ball striking. I talk to Userpick quite a bit and after seeing some of my videos he really encouraged me to go see Michael. Knowing that I was busting my ass and getting nowhere, I was quick to take him up on it, especially since he teaches a very similar swing to what I am working towards.

I got down to Dallas on Sunday afternoon, and met up with Michael on the range at Mira Vista. I pulled my 7 iron and within literally 3 balls he said, "In about 2 minutes im going to turn your entire world upside down". Sure enough. He filmed a couple swings, put them on his iPad and he showed me exactly what was wrong. He then showed me exactly how it SHOULD FEEL, (a seemingly important element, yet one I had never experienced). I took about ten 20% speed swings using the correct setup, and viola. It clicked. The setup made sense, the turn made sense, it all came together for the first time.

No joke, within 20 minutes of me stepping onto the grass at the range we were laughing at how this had to be some sick joke. Now, im not saying he is some miracle worker, and I did already have a foundation and a lot of work towards what we were trying to accomplish, BUT this dude not only knows the golf swing. More importantly he knows how to TEACH the golf swing.

Anyway, I still have a ton of work ahead. But im on the right path and know im in the ballpark. Plus, Michael is a super down to earth guy and is only a text or phone call away if you need help.

Sorry if this sounded like a cheesy ass infomercial, but I could not be happier with how things went. Worth every mile and minute. Here are a few videos. Still need to work a lot on the deep take away and follow through, but impact is soooo much better.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 12:52:18 am by John Quincy Poodle »
Logged

CallThemHawgs!

  • Guest
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2013, 11:37:21 pm »

Youtube is messing up on me, so im going to post the links and try to embed them later.

Initial setup when I first got there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_AiME00MRk

Initial DTL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ12pMtuuMI

Setup and half swing after literally 25 mins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE_a0_HDYCw

DTL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_3MtEBjqLA

Setup and full swing this morning before I left

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzRNJqNV3Eg

DTL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PgnjiXZ_Lc
Logged

Wildhog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +3421/-8147
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 41,074
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2013, 11:45:48 pm »

My swing is so retarded I wouldn't know where to begin.

Maybe a putting drill?
Logged

al2305

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +66/-100
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,487
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2013, 12:23:21 am »

Hey Michael,

Glad to have you.  I look forward to your comments.  Maybe you can be the first to fix my disorganized, homemade, inconsistent golf swing where so many others have failed.  Thx for taking the time to spend with all of us jackwagons.
Logged

GolfNut57

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +203/-898
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 4,339
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2013, 07:05:56 am »

Welcome to the nut hatch Michael.
Logged

First Tee Frog

  • Band Nerd
  • **
  • Karma: +2/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2013, 08:39:06 am »

Hey guys, thanks for the welcome. Look forward to being able to help and contribute whatever knowledge I can. A little background on me. As user told you I am a die hard horned frog. Graduated from TCU in 2002. Went to work for Nike golf after that in the R&D department before moving into the sports marketing side of things. Worked in the Oven and also a few events in the tour van. Left nike to try and play for a living. It was during that time I started working with geoff. He treated my like a little brother and I was extremely lucky to get a crash course in the golf swing. I have been teaching full time for 4 years now and have developed my own way of doing things. I have been very blessed to be exposed to many great players and great instructors in the last few years and been able to expand and build on that firm foundation that I had acquired.

I am serving as the volunteer assistant coach for the women's golf team this year, have taught conference champions, a USGA National Champion (Women's  US Senior am champion), coached back to back state high school teams and helped numerous college players along with a few touring professionals. Look forward to adding whatever I can to the conversations including educating poodle on why he is wrong most of the time because let's face it... His irrational hatred of tiger has blinded him to most of what is true in this world :) with that being said, ask away and GO FROGS!!
Logged

Hawgndaaz

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +1165/-1070
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 8,466
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2013, 09:09:44 am »

first question


what bats are you gaming?
Logged

kingofdequeen

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +2779/-6229
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 30,406
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2013, 09:14:56 am »

first question


what bats are you gaming?

2nd'd
Logged

userpick

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +175/-266
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,355
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2013, 09:22:55 am »

Poodle, those before/afters are like night and day. Michael, what specifically did you guys do to improve that quickly?
Logged

First Tee Frog

  • Band Nerd
  • **
  • Karma: +2/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2013, 09:36:33 am »

first question


what bats are you gaming?

Covert tour head 9.5 and neutral kuro Kage silver 60 gram x tipped 1 1/4
Vr pro ltd 3 wood a'hina 80(I think)x
Vr 18 degree hybrid 7.0 project x
Vr channel back 3 iron bent 1* weak
Vr half cavity 5 iron bent 1*strong
6-pw vr blades bent 1 strong all hard stepped X100
50,54,58 vr pro wedges s400
Cameron del mar putter 33 inches 4 degrees of loft
Logged

First Tee Frog

  • Band Nerd
  • **
  • Karma: +2/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2013, 09:40:54 am »

Poodle, those before/afters are like night and day. Michael, what specifically did you guys do to improve that quickly?

Changed the set up, farther from the ball and more bent over, wider feet, hips more forward with more tilt. Worked on keeping arms wider, more in front, and more in synch. Worked a little on how the arms rotate through the shot with the pivot. Still a ways to go but huge improvement.
Logged

CallThemHawgs!

  • Guest
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2013, 10:20:48 am »


Look forward to adding whatever I can to the conversations including educating poodle on why he is wrong most of the time because let's face it... His irrational hatred of tiger has blinded him to most of what is true in this world :) with that being said, ask away and GO FROGS!!

Hey, I agree. No one can dodge a 7 iron like Eldrick  ;)

I have a question about grip pressure. What sort of pressure should you have on a normal shot with an iron? Does it change at all with different clubs?

Also, do you vary your grip pressure at all to hit different shots?
Logged

gotyacovered

  • Moderator
  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *****
  • Karma: +121/-309
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7,837
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2013, 10:25:49 am »

Covert tour head 9.5 and neutral kuro Kage silver 60 gram x tipped 1 1/4
Vr pro ltd 3 wood a'hina 80(I think)x
Vr 18 degree hybrid 7.0 project x
Vr channel back 3 iron bent 1* weak
Vr half cavity 5 iron bent 1*strong
6-pw vr blades bent 1 strong all hard stepped X100
50,54,58 vr pro wedges s400
Cameron del mar putter 33 inches 4 degrees of loft

This is the iron setup i want, or something similar. You say 6-pw are 1 deg strong... Is that from Nike standards i guess? Maybe easiest way to ask: what's the loft of your pw? My stuff is 1 deg strong from mizuno and I have a big gap between pw and 52...
Logged

First Tee Frog

  • Band Nerd
  • **
  • Karma: +2/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2013, 10:40:37 am »

This is the iron setup i want, or something similar. You say 6-pw are 1 deg strong... Is that from Nike standards i guess? Maybe easiest way to ask: what's the loft of your pw? My stuff is 1 deg strong from mizuno and I have a big gap between pw and 52...

Pitching wedge is 46. 4 degree gap between each wedge. Everything Ben to full the gap between 3 and 5 iron.
Logged

First Tee Frog

  • Band Nerd
  • **
  • Karma: +2/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2013, 10:44:20 am »

Hey, I agree. No one can dodge a 7 iron like Eldrick  ;)

I have a question about grip pressure. What sort of pressure should you have on a normal shot with an iron? Does it change at all with different clubs?

Also, do you vary your grip pressure at all to hit different shots?

Firm but don't squeeze. I think too light a grip will cause a player to snatch the club and add grip pressure during the swing. Too tight and the muscles can't move. I prefer somewhere in the realm of 6 on a scale of 1-10 as long as the pressure points are in the proper spots.

Rarely vary that but if I am in thick rough j might increase it particularly in the last 3 fingers of my left hand
Logged

gotyacovered

  • Moderator
  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *****
  • Karma: +121/-309
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7,837
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2013, 10:53:43 am »

Pitching wedge is 46. 4 degree gap between each wedge. Everything Ben to full the gap between 3 and 5 iron.

yep, that is the setup i have except i go from PW 46 to gw 52... just need to get my wedges bent 58/54/50. and i need some new wedges, so there's the justification i need.

i like your top side set up, also.
Logged

al2305

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +66/-100
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,487
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2013, 10:55:38 am »

Hey guys, thanks for the welcome. Look forward to being able to help and contribute whatever knowledge I can. A little background on me. As user told you I am a die hard horned frog. Graduated from TCU in 2002. Went to work for Nike golf after that in the R&D department before moving into the sports marketing side of things. Worked in the Oven and also a few events in the tour van. Left nike to try and play for a living. It was during that time I started working with geoff. He treated my like a little brother and I was extremely lucky to get a crash course in the golf swing. I have been teaching full time for 4 years now and have developed my own way of doing things. I have been very blessed to be exposed to many great players and great instructors in the last few years and been able to expand and build on that firm foundation that I had acquired.

I am serving as the volunteer assistant coach for the women's golf team this year, have taught conference champions, a USGA National Champion (Women's  US Senior am champion), coached back to back state high school teams and helped numerous college players along with a few touring professionals. Look forward to adding whatever I can to the conversations including educating poodle on why he is wrong most of the time because let's face it... His irrational hatred of tiger has blinded him to most of what is true in this world :) with that being said, ask away and GO FROGS!!

I was in town for the Crowne Plaza.  Isnt there a driving range next to the oven?  We hit balls there a couple of times.  There was a girl hitting with a TCU bag there.  She looked like a player.

Next time Im down there Ill come see ya and you can try to fix my weak impact position. Picture a long flatish, narrow at the top backswing, and steep casty, no lag downswing.  This equals not compressing the ball since I have no forward shaft lean at impact.  If u could fix that I wouldn't care what my swing looked like.
Logged

CallThemHawgs!

  • Guest
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2013, 11:02:46 am »

Thanks, its going to take a bit of time getting used to those new grips on my Mizunos, but I will get the pressures down.

For your every swing shot, which would you prefer.... a draw or a fade? 

Logged

First Tee Frog

  • Band Nerd
  • **
  • Karma: +2/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2013, 11:05:32 am »

yep, that is the setup i have except i go from PW 46 to gw 52... just need to get my wedges bent 58/54/50. and i need some new wedges, so there's the justification i need.

i like your top side set up, also.

Put a lot of research in and the numbers don't lie. No matter how good you are, You aren't going to hit  long irons close enough to make the putt often enough to justify the big gaps in your wedge yardages. It's really that simple. My game has become much better since adopting this set makeup
Logged

First Tee Frog

  • Band Nerd
  • **
  • Karma: +2/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2013, 11:10:49 am »

I was in town for the Crowne Plaza.  Isnt there a driving range next to the oven?  We hit balls there a couple of times.  There was a girl hitting with a TCU bag there.  She looked like a player.

Next time Im down there Ill come see ya and you can try to fix my weak impact position. Picture a long flatish, narrow at the top backswing, and steep casty, no lag downswing.  This equals not compressing the ball since I have no forward shaft lean at impact.  If u could fix that I wouldn't care what my swing looked like.

Very cool. The range next to the oven is Leonard golf links. I worked out there in college and live less than a mile from there still. Tcu's women have a chance to be very good this year. Strong 1-5 but just don't have that superstar. Have a few with the potential to be that player but need to step it up and get to that next level.
Logged

First Tee Frog

  • Band Nerd
  • **
  • Karma: +2/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2013, 11:14:12 am »

Thanks, its going to take a bit of time getting used to those new grips on my Mizunos, but I will get the pressures down.

For your every swing shot, which would you prefer.... a draw or a fade?

I honestly don't want the ball curving much. Some days it's goin to fall a little right, some days a little left. On the course am I rarely making a stock swing where I am not hitting a particular shot on purpose. Don't really have an every swing swing unless I am on the range working on technique
Logged

userpick

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +175/-266
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,355
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2013, 03:33:28 pm »

Michael, something I've always wondered is how much difference is there between the club champion and the players on the web.com tour? What's the biggest difference? Having played with a couple of tour pros, it seems to me like they always miss shots in the same direction. There is no such thing as a "two way miss." Is that accurate?
Logged

gotyacovered

  • Moderator
  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *****
  • Karma: +121/-309
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7,837
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2013, 03:46:02 pm »

Put a lot of research in and the numbers don't lie. No matter how good you are, You aren't going to hit  long irons close enough to make the putt often enough to justify the big gaps in your wedge yardages. It's really that simple. My game has become much better since adopting this set makeup

i completely agree, but building the top half efficiently give you extra slots in the lower half.

here is myset up:

8*
15* 3w
19* hybrid
23* mp59
26* mp59
29* mp59
33* mp59
37* mp59
42* mp59
46* mp59
52* mizzy t1
56* mizzy t1
60* mizzy t1

we already talked about adjusting the wedges which i am going to do...

what you did was build up from 58* thru 6i. i think i am going to do the same thing thru 5i and make my 3i weaker/4i stronger so i can keep my 3 metal... or i could keep my 60* (which i like) and add another wedge so my top half doesnt get to weak. thoughts?

i am good at knock downs and choppin' em off, do that a lot. not very good around the greens.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 04:50:41 pm by gotyacovered »
Logged

First Tee Frog

  • Band Nerd
  • **
  • Karma: +2/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2013, 04:38:45 pm »

Michael, something I've always wondered is how much difference is there between the club champion and the players on the web.com tour? What's the biggest difference? Having played with a couple of tour pros, it seems to me like they always miss shots in the same direction. There is no such thing as a "two way miss." Is that accurate?

The difference is bigger than you would think. At Mira Vista we have a few web.com guys along with one PGA Tour guy ( have had as many as 4 at any one time) and they are head and shoulders better than the club champions. They hit it longer, solid more often, wedge it much better and from 10 feet in putt it so well.

As to the two way miss...way more difficult to say. Most good players don't have the two way miss because they have the path fairly neutral which makes it easier to control the face alignment at impact. That isn't always true and every swing is a potential two way miss depending on the face alignment relative to the path at impact. The more extreme the path direction the bigger and more extreme the miss has the potential to be.

The ball flight stuff has a great chance to be a good discussion. First question. What factor controls the starting direction of the gol ball? Swing path or face angle? Also...what is swing path?
Logged

userpick

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +175/-266
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,355
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2013, 05:00:31 pm »

The difference is bigger than you would think. At Mira Vista we have a few web.com guys along with one PGA Tour guy ( have had as many as 4 at any one time) and they are head and shoulders better than the club champions. They hit it longer, solid more often, wedge it much better and from 10 feet in putt it so well.

As to the two way miss...way more difficult to say. Most good players don't have the two way miss because they have the path fairly neutral which makes it easier to control the face alignment at impact. That isn't always true and every swing is a potential two way miss depending on the face alignment relative to the path at impact. The more extreme the path direction the bigger and more extreme the miss has the potential to be.

The ball flight stuff has a great chance to be a good discussion. First question. What factor controls the starting direction of the gol ball? Swing path or face angle? Also...what is swing path?

I know the answer. I wonder if Poodle does...
Logged

tbhogfan

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +305/-163
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2,716
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2013, 05:01:15 pm »

Michael,

Do you have any good driver drills?  I'm hitting everything else in my bag well, except the big stick.

I am in enough of a funk right now that if it is important, I hit 3w off the tee.
Logged

First Tee Frog

  • Band Nerd
  • **
  • Karma: +2/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2013, 05:02:38 pm »

Michael,

Do you have any good driver drills?  I'm hitting everything else in my bag well, except the big stick.

I am in enough of a funk right now that if it is important, I hit 3w off the tee.
do you have a pattern to your misses?
Logged

Hawg414

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +343/-604
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3,307
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2013, 05:06:24 pm »

The ball flight stuff has a great chance to be a good discussion. First question. What factor controls the starting direction of the gol ball? Swing path or face angle? Also...what is swing path?

ball starts in the direction of the swing path.
ball finishes in the direction of where the face angle is pointed at impact, relative to the swing path.
? ? ?
Logged

userpick

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +175/-266
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,355
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2013, 05:12:01 pm »

ball starts in the direction of the swing path.
ball finishes in the direction of where the face angle is pointed at impact, relative to the swing path.
? ? ?

I say the ball starts in the direction of the face angle
Logged

gotyacovered

  • Moderator
  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *****
  • Karma: +121/-309
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7,837
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2013, 05:19:23 pm »

i say face angle-my divots seem to always point slightly left hook/draw or slice/fade or straight.
Logged

cosmodrum

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Karma: +4299/-4371
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 29,471
  • Today, we are teaching poodles how to fly...
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2013, 05:19:30 pm »

do you have a pattern to your misses?

I know you weren't directing this to me, but I typically hit too low of a ball (which runs out nice but sucks when I need to carry) and I swing 10.5 degree driver, 68g stiff shaft.

Drives me nuts. Otherwise my miss is left.
Logged

First Tee Frog

  • Band Nerd
  • **
  • Karma: +2/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2013, 05:22:34 pm »

ball starts in the direction of the swing path.
ball finishes in the direction of where the face angle is pointed at impact, relative to the swing path.
? ? ?

It's both but the biggest influence is face. About 85% but its close enough for you to know that the ball will start where the face is pointed. If the face and path are not square the ball will curve away from the path toward/past the face. Now...what is the difference in path and swing direction?
Logged

Hawg414

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +343/-604
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3,307
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2013, 05:26:28 pm »

I say the ball starts in the direction of the face angle

well isnt it kinda both?  one moreso than the other... but both play a factor.  dont they?

for instance, if your swing path is squarely down the line, yet your face is laying 20* open at impact... then the ball is not necessarily going to start squarely down the line, but neither is it going to automatically jump 20* to the right.  i would guess the results lie somewhere in the middle of both ends.  it probably starts 5-10* right... then continues to turn upwards of 25-30* right.

whenever i try to work a ball left or right by manipulating the face angle, i usually think of it as "splitting the difference."  in other words, if i want to start a ball 5* left and cut it back to a pin, i probably aim 7-8* left, then open the face 3 or 4*.  splitting the difference.

but then again, many of these attempts end terribly, so maybe ive got it all wrong.
Logged

First Tee Frog

  • Band Nerd
  • **
  • Karma: +2/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2013, 05:49:59 pm »

well isnt it kinda both?  one moreso than the other... but both play a factor.  dont they?

for instance, if your swing path is squarely down the line, yet your face is laying 20* open at impact... then the ball is not necessarily going to start squarely down the line, but neither is it going to automatically jump 20* to the right.  i would guess the results lie somewhere in the middle of both ends.  it probably starts 5-10* right... then continues to turn upwards of 25-30* right.

whenever i try to work a ball left or right by manipulating the face angle, i usually think of it as "splitting the difference."  in other words, if i want to start a ball 5* left and cut it back to a pin, i probably aim 7-8* left, then open the face 3 or 4*.  splitting the difference.

but then again, many of these attempts end terribly, so maybe ive got it all wrong.

In your example of a straight path and a face 20* right the ball would start around 17 * degrees right (assuming center contact)and violently slice.

That is an extreme example. It is rare to see face to path relationship more than 3 or 4 degrees apart and if you do you have some massive massive curve.
Logged

Hawg414

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Karma: +343/-604
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3,307
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2013, 06:24:03 pm »

In your example of a straight path and a face 20* right the ball would start around 17 * degrees right (assuming center contact)and violently slice.

That is an extreme example. It is rare to see face to path relationship more than 3 or 4 degrees apart and if you do you have some massive massive curve.

ha. yes, i was exaggerating the numbers a bit for ease of conversation.  although in my younger years i probably had some 20* open club faces.

so what you are saying makes sense.  my concept of "splitting the difference" still somewhat applies, but i am underestimating the amount to which it STARTS off line.  and my typical miss when trying to hit a cut is a push cut.  i just always assumed i was opening the face at address, then leaving it further open in the swing.  not executing.  but more likely i just need to account for more initial right at the outset.  jumps right, curves right. 
Logged

First Tee Frog

  • Band Nerd
  • **
  • Karma: +2/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2013, 06:32:17 pm »

ha. yes, i was exaggerating the numbers a bit for ease of conversation.  although in my younger years i probably had some 20* open club faces.

so what you are saying makes sense.  my concept of "splitting the difference" still somewhat applies, but i am underestimating the amount to which it STARTS off line.  and my typical miss when trying to hit a cut is a push cut.  i just always assumed i was opening the face at address, then leaving it further open in the swing.  not executing.  but more likely i just need to account for more initial right at the outset.  jumps right, curves right.

Correct. In order to hit a cut that finishes at the target the club face must be pointing left of the target at impact with a path more left. You are getting the face right of the target with the path left of the face and missing with the push cut
Logged

CallThemHawgs!

  • Guest
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2013, 08:39:03 pm »

Alright Michael, went to the range tonight and got some good work in. Overall, im hitting it literally 5x as good as I was last week.

That being said, my miss hits are off the toe with my irons. Even some of the clean shots are 4 grooves up and outside. The ball flight with my long irons and woods still runs right when I dont hit it clean.

Whats causing this, and when it happens what do I need to focus on to get back on track?
Logged

al2305

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +66/-100
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,487
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2013, 08:47:07 pm »

Correct. In order to hit a cut that finishes at the target the club face must be pointing left of the target at impact with a path more left. You are getting the face right of the target with the path left of the face and missing with the push cut

I still have trouble getting used to the idea of the clubface having to be right of the target at impact to hit a draw after thinking the opposite for so long.  Its kinda like finding out the world isnt flat. 

Another ball flight misconception, at least for me anyway, is that in order to compress the ball, you have to really hit down on the ball.  The much bigger factor is getting the clubface delofted by as much as 11* at impact while only hitting down on the ball about 5*.  I knew the great ballstrikers delofted the face at impact but WOW that's a lot. 

Whats the best way to do this correctly, if ur stuck doing the opposite, like Im sure many on here do, including myself?
Logged

First Tee Frog

  • Band Nerd
  • **
  • Karma: +2/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2013, 10:21:15 pm »

I still have trouble getting used to the idea of the clubface having to be right of the target at impact to hit a draw after thinking the opposite for so long.  Its kinda like finding out the world isnt flat. 

Another ball flight misconception, at least for me anyway, is that in order to compress the ball, you have to really hit down on the ball.  The much bigger factor is getting the clubface delofted by as much as 11* at impact while only hitting down on the ball about 5*.  I knew the great ballstrikers delofted the face at impact but WOW that's a lot. 

Whats the best way to do this correctly, if ur stuck doing the opposite, like Im sure many on here do, including myself?
players don't throw away their lag and angle for no reason.  9 times out of ten the reason that angle isn't held has to do with something that has gone on before and losing the angle is the only way for them to make contact at all.  The two most common causes are too long a backswing or an upper body lacking enough tilt away from the target in the downswing.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 11:18:36 pm by First Tee Frog »
Logged

First Tee Frog

  • Band Nerd
  • **
  • Karma: +2/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2013, 10:27:02 pm »

Alright Michael, went to the range tonight and got some good work in. Overall, im hitting it literally 5x as good as I was last week.

That being said, my miss hits are off the toe with my irons. Even some of the clean shots are 4 grooves up and outside. The ball flight with my long irons and woods still runs right when I dont hit it clean.

Whats causing this, and when it happens what do I need to focus on to get back on track?

I guarantee you are getting too narrow and when that happes you are getting steep to give yourself room. Keep the swing shorter and your right arm straighter in the backswing
Logged

The Artist Yo Huckleberry

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +46/-246
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,250
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2013, 10:46:04 pm »

Youtube is messing up on me, so im going to post the links and try to embed them later.

Initial setup when I first got there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_AiME00MRk

Initial DTL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ12pMtuuMI

Setup and half swing after literally 25 mins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE_a0_HDYCw

DTL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_3MtEBjqLA

Setup and full swing this morning before I left

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzRNJqNV3Eg

DTL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PgnjiXZ_Lc
Poodle, looks like he had you set up with the right knee flexed I ward toward the left knee?
Logged

The Artist Yo Huckleberry

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +46/-246
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,250
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2013, 10:49:45 pm »

I need help and badly so. I'd say my set up is similar to Poodle's initial set up. I'm having a HUGE problem with getting too steep and then coming from the outside, resulting in a LOT of pulling the ball dead left.
Logged

al2305

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Karma: +66/-100
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,487
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #45 on: September 03, 2013, 11:13:56 pm »

players don't throw away their lag and angle for no reason.  9 times out of ten the reason that angle isn't held has to do with something that has gone on before and losing the angle is the only way for them to make contact at all.  The two most common causes are two long a backswing or an upper body lacking enough tilt away from the target in the downswing.

well said and guilty on at least one of those if not both. Im tryin to get that backswing shorter, but its hard to get this tall goofy body to do anything different than what it's done wrong for so long.  I needed my camera about 15 yrs ago.  This crap would have been a lot easier.
Logged

CallThemHawgs!

  • Guest
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #46 on: September 03, 2013, 11:26:46 pm »

I guarantee you are getting too narrow and when that happes you are getting steep to give yourself room. Keep the swing shorter and your right arm straighter in the backswing

Roger that

Poodle, looks like he had you set up with the right knee flexed I ward toward the left knee?

Basically im pre set into what the lower body SHOULD look like at impact. The right knee flexing in like that allows the right hip to be lower and gets you pre set to rotate around the right leg.

Its tough to get into this position, but it really allows you to unwind... no more working left and throwing your hips around bs.
Logged

First Tee Frog

  • Band Nerd
  • **
  • Karma: +2/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #47 on: September 03, 2013, 11:29:03 pm »

I need help and badly so. I'd say my set up is similar to Poodle's initial set up. I'm having a HUGE problem with getting too steep and then coming from the outside, resulting in a LOT of pulling the ball dead left.

Try posting some video from dtl and face on and we can get ya straightened out
Logged

CallThemHawgs!

  • Guest
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2013, 11:36:52 pm »

Here is a DTL vid of Userpick

Care to break this one down Michael?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWFVdx9W5Zc
Logged

First Tee Frog

  • Band Nerd
  • **
  • Karma: +2/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Ask the Expert
« Reply #49 on: September 03, 2013, 11:48:55 pm »

Here is a DTL vid of Userpick

Care to break this one down Michael?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWFVdx9W5Zc
pretty good. Needs to lose a little of the right knee flex in the backswing so he can get a little more hip turn and not get his right elbow stuck which leads to back foot staying down too long and not quite as much extension as I would ideally see into follow through. Club isn't nearly as under plane as in the past and is working much more left/on plane through impact than in the past as well. Face is also much more square to the path than I have seen from him.  Good work all in all
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Up
 

KARK
KWNA
Fox 16 Arkansas