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Author Topic: Quality of Arkansas High School Football  (Read 3183 times)

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BigBen

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Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« on: November 10, 2012, 11:47:03 am »

For Arkansas to become a constant national power like we all want them to the quality of Arkansas High School Football has to improve.  There is no reason for there not 3-4 solid D1 recruits from the Little Rock area, 2-3 solid D1 recruits from the NWA Arkansas area, 2-3 from the Pine Bluff area and 4-5 from the rest of the state.  The athletes are there trust me I have played against them and watched for a few years and there is just a lack of interest and facilities available to make this possible right now.  So for those of you who support the Razorback program you should also support your local high school football program.  We need to greatly increase our high school football programs around the state if we want to constantly contend.
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Porked Tongue

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2012, 11:49:15 am »

The Little Rock district is failing them big time.
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LJHOG

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2012, 12:42:02 pm »

Arkansas HS football is bad.
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whosiskid

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2012, 02:06:30 pm »

The 2014 high school class from Arkansas is outstanding, with loads of top tier prospects, but unfortunately this is more of an exception than the norm.

That said, I think the one lasting contribution that Bobby Petrino may have made to Arkansas football was to take recruiting national. We do need to lock up the top prospects from the state, but we need to get a few good prospects from all around the country. Before Petrino's screw up, we had kids like Devon Allen from Arizona and Greg Olsen's younger brother (from NJ) both looking seriously at the program. There is no reason that that shouldn't still be our approach to recruiting. If we each year got the top 7 or 8 players from the state, got 7 to 10 kids from Oklahoma/Texas/Louisiana/Missouri, and then the rest from all over the rest of the country, we should be fine. But this all hinges on getting a good head coach.
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jsbrown3

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2012, 04:24:10 pm »

Only talent in Little Rock is in basketball. Have you see Fair, Hall, well pretty much all the public high school teams play football? Its terrible. Pine Bluff has a couple recruits, but this might be mean but who knows if they are even eligible
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ceegar

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2012, 09:45:16 am »

I grew up and played in Arkansas but have spent my adult life in states like Oklahoma, Louisiana, and Florida.  I have brothers and sisters in Texas so I have spent some time there as well.  I have watched numerous games in these states and I am not sure a 5/6A class school in Arkansas could compete consisitently with a 3A type school in those states.  Its just a different level of ball.  Now Basketball is not that way.
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BirmingHam

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2012, 11:16:10 am »

I grew up and played in Arkansas but have spent my adult life in states like Oklahoma, Louisiana, and Florida.  I have brothers and sisters in Texas so I have spent some time there as well.  I have watched numerous games in these states and I am not sure a 5/6A class school in Arkansas could compete consisitently with a 3A type school in those states.  Its just a different level of ball.  Now Basketball is not that way.

Can say the same thing for Alabama, my son played there and their 3A schools would dominate in 5A and up here.  They live football year round, only had 1 week break in the summer.  Worked out weight training in the AM and then either position training or team in the PM. And that was in the summer.  Plus mandatory camp for entire team.  Again, that was 3A football.  My son was 5'11'', 250 #s and was the smallest lineman on off or def.  It's a different world over there.
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whosiskid

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2012, 11:48:11 am »

I agree that there is a real difference between Arkansas HS football, and football in any of a number of other states, like Oklahoma, Texas, Pennsylvania, and Florida.

But what accounts for the difference? Do our kids not eat as well when very young? Are our schools not as well funded (well, no, they are not, but does the decreased funding affect the football programs in addition to the level of education?)? Is there a state culture that promotes more success in football? I live in Illinois right now, but the level of HS football in Illinois is way below that in Texas, even though the basketball is on an exceedingly high level.

One or two years and you could chalk it up to coincidence, but when a few states produced first rate football players for decade after decade, you wonder.

And just to point out, right now the state that turns out more top tier football players than any other on a per capita basis is Florida. But that hasn't always been the case. Forty years ago Florida was not the football state it is today. I honestly don't know how to answer any of these questions. But you do wonder why Oklahoma, which ought to be closer to Arkansas than, say, Texas, in turning out leading football players, is a better football state than Arkansas.
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BrianWPS!!

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2012, 01:36:33 pm »

It's the funding dedicated to sports programs. A great football team will usually have a great weight room, supplements, training room, etc. . . That to go along with sheer numbers going out for football. The most important thing is PARENT INVOLVMENT!!!!!!! I'm so adamant about this because some fort smith kids could be great players if their parents would only instill a drive in them to be great. But no, it's considered a success to some parents if their son even goes to high school in the first place. It's sad but j see it all the time. Other places will push their son to go to practice and workouts 2 times a day but the attitude is different here. Especially on districts not predominantly white.
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IronHog

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2012, 01:40:02 pm »

what accounts for the difference?


Numbers and demographics.


East and south Arkansas turn out high D1 players at a level on par with top states like Bama and LA........ but 500,000 people is 500,000 people.
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IronHog

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2012, 01:42:33 pm »

It's the funding dedicated to sports programs. A great football team will usually have a great weight room, supplements, training room, etc. . . That to go along with sheer numbers going out for football. The most important thing is PARENT INVOLVMENT!!!!!!! I'm so adamant about this because some fort smith kids could be great players if their parents would only instill a drive in them to be great. But no, it's considered a success to some parents if their son even goes to high school in the first place. It's sad but j see it all the time. Other places will push their son to go to practice and workouts 2 times a day but the attitude is different here. Especially on districts not predominantly white.



Funding is mostly irrelevant except for participation rates.......


6'2" 250 is what momma gave you....not a money problem.


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tophawg19

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2012, 02:00:08 pm »

most of our schools have a lack of position coaches . poor weight rooms are a problem. schools like smackover , junction city , bearden , have poor weight rooms and the coaches at these schools are under manned. you may only have 4 coaches trying to teach all aspects of the game so all they can do is basics for each position. the kids at these schools don't have a chance because they have to get by on natural talent. Camden Fairview is a good example of what can be done even in a poor economic area . Buck James brought a new attitude and the ability to match the system to talent . we have a good weight room and good coaches that can give hands on training to each player .bearden has the ability to produce good players each year at least 1 or 2 get a look by the U OF A but these kids are behind in the weight rooms
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Porked Tongue

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2012, 02:05:09 pm »

Arkansas has shut down the number of uncertified assistants for high school football. 
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BrianWPS!!

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2012, 02:31:24 pm »



Funding is mostly irrelevant except for participation rates.......


6'2" 250 is what momma gave you....not a money problem.


6'2 250 is what a great weight training staff gave you. Momma won't make you work out like they will. That'd be the wrong kind of 250. It's about having the right equipment
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SouthTexFeral

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2012, 08:21:17 pm »

It seems to me that the quality of football is not the problem but rather getting the top recruits to stay home is the major issue.
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IronHog

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2012, 08:58:56 pm »


6'2 250 is what a great weight training staff gave you. Momma won't make you work out like they will. That'd be the wrong kind of 250. It's about having the right equipment


I'm 6' 2" and 260 plus.


I guarantee you no amount of weight room training would have made me explosive enough to play SEC ball. 


My cousin on the other than (that played linebacker for some time at UA in the 80's) could do nothing and dunk a basketball at about the same size.

Weight programs get you Texas.... kids that top out early..... SEC football players are born, not built.
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BrianWPS!!

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2012, 11:36:50 pm »


I'm 6' 2" and 260 plus.


I guarantee you no amount of weight room training would have made me explosive enough to play SEC ball. 


My cousin on the other than (that played linebacker for some time at UA in the 80's) could do nothing and dunk a basketball at about the same size.

Weight programs get you Texas.... kids that top out early..... SEC football players are born, not built.

Yea some are just natural talented prodigies but you take an athletic kid and don't put him in a successfull development program then hell end up not being as good as a not as athletic kid in a very successfull conditioning program. It's pretty simple.
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three hog night

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2012, 08:05:55 am »

The bigger problem that NObody wants to deal with is school consolidation.   We have WAY too many small school districts, that don't have the money to hire enough coaches.   The small school district don't have well rounded talent across the roster, so the quality of the team is a joke.   The lack of coaches and well rounded talent limits the schemes that can be used.
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El Guapo

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2012, 08:29:23 am »

The bigger problem that NObody wants to deal with is school consolidation.   We have WAY too many small school districts, that don't have the money to hire enough coaches.   The small school district don't have well rounded talent across the roster, so the quality of the team is a joke.   The lack of coaches and well rounded talent limits the schemes that can be used.

Truth... There is no way the smaller schools can afford to have the facilities or coaches to keep up with some of the top tier states.

I live in East Texas, Longview to be exact, we are the 197th largest MSA in the country with 216,000 people.  That makes us the 16th largest city in Texas with another 9 MSA's listed as "metropolitan statistical areas" under us. 

Longview would be the fourth largest of only 5 MSA's in the state of Arkansas... Both Dallas and Houston MSA's have TWICE the population as the entire state of Arkansas. 

I say all that to say this, low population with a "spread out" tax revenue base and many small schools makes it tough for arkansas to compete when it comes to revenue and facilities for things like HS football.  Texas has more people concentrated into smaller areas and that means larger schools with more $$.

I agree with the above poster, Arkansas has to continue forward with national recruiting if they ever hope to stay competitive.
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three hog night

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2012, 11:51:51 am »

Truth... There is no way the smaller schools can afford to have the facilities or coaches to keep up with some of the top tier states.

I live in East Texas, Longview to be exact, we are the 197th largest MSA in the country with 216,000 people.  That makes us the 16th largest city in Texas with another 9 MSA's listed as "metropolitan statistical areas" under us. 

Longview would be the fourth largest of only 5 MSA's in the state of Arkansas... Both Dallas and Houston MSA's have TWICE the population as the entire state of Arkansas. 

I say all that to say this, low population with a "spread out" tax revenue base and many small schools makes it tough for arkansas to compete when it comes to revenue and facilities for things like HS football.  Texas has more people concentrated into smaller areas and that means larger schools with more $$.

I agree with the above poster, Arkansas has to continue forward with national recruiting if they ever hope to stay competitive.

The reality is that we have to start working on consolidating our schools while also recruiting nationally.
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poloprince

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2012, 12:08:55 pm »

Sure is funny that Ark high school football kids can go elsewhere and do just fine.
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three hog night

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2012, 12:23:07 pm »

Sure is funny that Ark high school football kids can go elsewhere and do just fine.

Individual players are a different issue.  We are talking about the systemic issues of HS FB in Arkansas.
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JaketheSnake

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2012, 01:51:58 pm »

For Arkansas to become a constant national power like we all want them to the quality of Arkansas High School Football has to improve.  There is no reason for there not 3-4 solid D1 recruits from the Little Rock area, 2-3 solid D1 recruits from the NWA Arkansas area, 2-3 from the Pine Bluff area and 4-5 from the rest of the state.  The athletes are there trust me I have played against them and watched for a few years and there is just a lack of interest and facilities available to make this possible right now.  So for those of you who support the Razorback program you should also support your local high school football program.  We need to greatly increase our high school football programs around the state if we want to constantly contend.
Problems with a lot of Little Rock schools are pay.  Union district that can not change a pay scale to bring in a top coach.  NWA has been fairly consistent in getting a couple players a year, but none have proved to be great talents yet.  Pine Bluff area?  IDK what is going on there.  PB Dollarway has a ton of athletes, but hasnt produced a D1 player to UA in a while. 

Consolidation is a bigey IMO.  Too many schools spreading $ thinner and lessening competition. 
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HawgFan70

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2012, 10:52:26 pm »

I have often wondered if it would be illegal for the UofA to pump some money into LR football programs to hire some quality coaches and upgrade facilities. Im sure its a major no no. I just know LR schools hold 6-8 SEC athletes every year would be great to see them get the opportunity to make the most of it.
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IronHog

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2012, 11:24:58 pm »

Yea some are just natural talented prodigies but you take an athletic kid and don't put him in a successfull development program then hell end up not being as good as a not as athletic kid in a very successfull conditioning program. It's pretty simple.


I don't think most people understand just how big and explosive a real SEC player is.......

Look at AJ Turner.... yea, he's kinda skinny and lost.... but when he gets lined up he looks like the best player on the field!  He's been playing basketball not lifting and working in offseason...... you've got to be gifted physically to play SEC ball.... what most people here are talking about is HS football PROGRAMS.

7A west is a great example.  Great coaching, tons of support, good HS football teams.... little D1 talent and zero defenders.
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RD

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2012, 11:51:08 pm »

It really depends on what it is, you are looking for. The days of Ground and Pound offenses are going the way of the Do-Do bird and kids want to play Offense, not defense.

Ball control and 3-4 schemes, are dying, 30-40-50 point offenses are what is new. Kids want what is popular anymore. Honestly, can you make a 17 year old kid excited about running triple option, wishbone, or veer?
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three hog night

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2012, 08:25:01 am »

It really depends on what it is, you are looking for. The days of Ground and Pound offenses are going the way of the Do-Do bird and kids want to play Offense, not defense.

Ball control and 3-4 schemes, are dying, 30-40-50 point offenses are what is new. Kids want what is popular anymore. Honestly, can you make a 17 year old kid excited about running triple option, wishbone, or veer?

The problem is talent and resources for small schools is getting more critical.  We are a state full of small 2500 to 5,000 resident towns and that is a real core issue. Many small schools could easily run the veer, wishbone, T as a way of masking their lack of talent, BUT now the move is to spread offenses.   The spread offenses require better coaching and more money, and talented skill players.   All of which are lacking at small schools most years.   We need to consolidate.   Jonesboro has 6 school districts splitting the resources and Fayetteville has ONE.    Walnut Ridge and Hoxie are next to each other yet both have a school district.   Paragould has 25k people and has 2 school districts splitting the resources.    Pine Bluff metro has too many school districts.  Batesville has 2 school districts.   
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JaketheSnake

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2012, 08:32:31 am »

It really depends on what it is, you are looking for. The days of Ground and Pound offenses are going the way of the Do-Do bird and kids want to play Offense, not defense.

Ball control and 3-4 schemes, are dying, 30-40-50 point offenses are what is new. Kids want what is popular anymore. Honestly, can you make a 17 year old kid excited about running triple option, wishbone, or veer?
No necessarily true.  Football rolls in cycles.  As defenses change to allow more people in pass coverage and lighten up on the run game, teams will start working in more run oriented offenses. When defenses start getting run over because they have too many in secondary and only 3DL, they will revert to a tougher run stopping D.  You will see more ground and pound coming back.  I dont think the ol' Dead T is going to be seen much, but some Power I type stuff with a couple wideouts will become very popular again.  Something you can ground/pound/and toss out of similar sets.
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BatesvilleHOG

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2012, 01:47:05 pm »

The problem is talent and resources for small schools is getting more critical.  We are a state full of small 2500 to 5,000 resident towns and that is a real core issue. Many small schools could easily run the veer, wishbone, T as a way of masking their lack of talent, BUT now the move is to spread offenses.   The spread offenses require better coaching and more money, and talented skill players.   All of which are lacking at small schools most years.   We need to consolidate.   Jonesboro has 6 school districts splitting the resources and Fayetteville has ONE.    Walnut Ridge and Hoxie are next to each other yet both have a school district.   Paragould has 25k people and has 2 school districts splitting the resources.    Pine Bluff metro has too many school districts.  Batesville has 2 school districts.   
Batesville is too spread out to have one school district.
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the_kosher_pig

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2012, 03:27:30 pm »

I grew up and played in Arkansas but have spent my adult life in states like Oklahoma, Louisiana, and Florida.  I have brothers and sisters in Texas so I have spent some time there as well.  I have watched numerous games in these states and I am not sure a 5/6A class school in Arkansas could compete consisitently with a 3A type school in those states.  Its just a different level of ball.  Now Basketball is not that way.
TEAMS that are good in high school aren't recruited.  Individuals are.  Too many people get hung up on "Texas football"  It's not the teams that are going to college.  In Texas there are many teams that would destroy teams in other states.  But individual Arkansas produces easily 10 or so athletes that could make it on the DI level.  But it's a risk reward........but how many of Petrino's out of state recruits who SHOULD have been studs left?

most of our schools have a lack of position coaches . poor weight rooms are a problem. schools like smackover , junction city , bearden , have poor weight rooms and the coaches at these schools are under manned. you may only have 4 coaches trying to teach all aspects of the game so all they can do is basics for each position. the kids at these schools don't have a chance because they have to get by on natural talent. Camden Fairview is a good example of what can be done even in a poor economic area . Buck James brought a new attitude and the ability to match the system to talent . we have a good weight room and good coaches that can give hands on training to each player .bearden has the ability to produce good players each year at least 1 or 2 get a look by the U OF A but these kids are behind in the weight rooms
You are absolutely talking out of your ass.  Smackover, Bearden and Junction City have amazing weight room programs.  That's why EVERY year Bearden and JC are battling it to the state championship.  Ask Byron Jones.  Ask Defonta Lowe.  Ask Alan Turner.  Ask Davidell Collins.  There are a few DI kids just in 2 years on FBS rosters.  The 7AA East has at least 2 players on each of its 4 playoff teams to TAKE spots from any player on a 7A team. 
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pignparadise

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2012, 06:54:52 pm »

I agree that there is a real difference between Arkansas HS football, and football in any of a number of other states, like Oklahoma, Texas, Pennsylvania, and Florida.

But what accounts for the difference? Do our kids not eat as well when very young? Are our schools not as well funded (well, no, they are not, but does the decreased funding affect the football programs in addition to the level of education?)? Is there a state culture that promotes more success in football? I live in Illinois right now, but the level of HS football in Illinois is way below that in Texas, even though the basketball is on an exceedingly high level.

One or two years and you could chalk it up to coincidence, but when a few states produced first rate football players for decade after decade, you wonder.

And just to point out, right now the state that turns out more top tier football players than any other on a per capita basis is Florida. But that hasn't always been the case. Forty years ago Florida was not the football state it is today. I honestly don't know how to answer any of these questions. But you do wonder why Oklahoma, which ought to be closer to Arkansas than, say, Texas, in turning out leading football players, is a better football state than Arkansas.
I can only vouch for my son's experience.He playedand started on a Winter Park Fl team in Florida's largest classification that went to the Florida State semifinals and then transferred to Har ber and started and played in the 7a state Championship game. He said the coaches at Har Ber were better. the players more dedicated and he assured me that the Har Ber team would beat any of the Florida teams he played. However the Florida schools had more raw talent. Dr Phillips in Orlando had 13 Div1 signees one year. I think NW arkansas has great coaches and facilities but not great raw talent.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 06:57:24 pm by pignparadise »
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kclvr

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2012, 08:51:38 pm »

I saw on the rivals watch list top 250 for 2014 AR has 2 kids from the entire state and LA has 3 kids from Monroe alone. That is telling.
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the_kosher_pig

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2012, 08:14:07 am »

The number 3 team in Florida absolutely destroyed the number 2 team in Louisiana.  West Monroe lost to American Heritage 30 something to 7. 
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three hog night

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2012, 08:27:43 am »

Batesville is too spread out to have one school district.

That excuse would work with more population.   
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TheGunther

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2012, 04:38:30 pm »

The little rock thing can go pretty deep, even to a legislation level.  There is no reason that Little Rock, being the capital of the state and sitting right on the I-30 corridor should not be as large as Dallas or Memphis. The whole state as a whole has seen pretty limited population growth in comparison to the surrounding states. And why is that? There are very few large corporations and plants that come here because this state sucks the life out of big business.

As the population grows so will D1 talent.
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IronHog

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2012, 06:45:42 pm »

The 7AA East has at least 2 players on each of its 4 playoff teams to TAKE spots from any player on a 7A team. 

2 players?


Try 10 or 11.
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kclvr

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2012, 10:09:25 pm »

The number 3 team in Florida absolutely destroyed the number 2 team in Louisiana.  West Monroe lost to American Heritage 30 something to 7. 

You do know West Monroe is not even close to being the best team in the state don't you? If you are questioning the 3 guys from Monroe they have offers from basically ever top team in the country. Saban is on them hard.
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kentz1

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2012, 12:24:20 am »

Yea, all 3 are Lsu bound
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BatesvilleHOG

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2012, 04:15:18 pm »

That excuse would work with more population.
batesville's city limits only have a population of 11k. The surrounding areas like desha, salado, southside, mchue, and locust grove have a population of about 11k all together as well. Being as spread out as we are, two school districts are absolutely needed.
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98hogs

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2012, 05:57:15 pm »

McHue, LOL...how many folks live there now?  13 or 14?
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LaHog12

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2012, 08:08:26 pm »

You do know West Monroe is not even close to being the best team in the state don't you? If you are questioning the 3 guys from Monroe they have offers from basically ever top team in the country. Saban is on them hard.
The tackle from Monroe is already 6'6 325 lbs. They also have a monster under-the-radar guard out of New Iberia that is 6'5 305 lbs. The 2014 talent in Louisiana is mind boggling.
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Wooderson

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2012, 04:36:23 pm »

If this is so true then why do our best players generally come from Arkansas?  Think about it.  Arkansas is not the problem.  The Jackie Sherrill interview on Bo's show really opened my eyes.  There is no reason to go to Bama, Florida, or Georgia to recruit.  Nutt started this and it has bit us ever since.  We have all we need in Ok, Texas, and Louisiana.  Hit Texas hard again.

Bobby P proved that it doesn't matter too much if you are recruiting athletes that are comparable in size and speed it's how you coach them.  Look at his class reranks at Louisville and the fact he put more into the NFL during his time there than any other program.  His classes were never highly ranked until after they were looked at again after graduation.

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three hog night

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2012, 09:35:03 am »

If this is so true then why do our best players generally come from Arkansas?  Think about it.  Arkansas is not the problem.  The Jackie Sherrill interview on Bo's show really opened my eyes.  There is no reason to go to Bama, Florida, or Georgia to recruit.  Nutt started this and it has bit us ever since.  We have all we need in Ok, Texas, and Louisiana.  Hit Texas hard again.

Bobby P proved that it doesn't matter too much if you are recruiting athletes that are comparable in size and speed it's how you coach them.  Look at his class reranks at Louisville and the fact he put more into the NFL during his time there than any other program.  His classes were never highly ranked until after they were looked at again after graduation.

The problem we have with Ark HS football players is the lack of competition they encounter.   We have way too many small schools that have mediocre talent; but a superstar cycle hits and they play against weak competition and get a false sense of security.   The small schools coddle superstars too much as well, so we get kids with questionable work ethic.   Ark kids usually need to be Redshirted to acclimate to the college game and it will make up the difference.
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JaketheSnake

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2012, 09:52:01 am »

Small schools coddle superstars to keep them at the school... Or everyone woul pull a Kyle Frazier...
The problem we have with Ark HS football players is the lack of competition they encounter.   We have way too many small schools that have mediocre talent; but a superstar cycle hits and they play against weak competition and get a false sense of security.   The small schools coddle superstars too much as well, so we get kids with questionable work ethic.   Ark kids usually need to be Redshirted to acclimate to the college game and it will make up the difference.
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ExArky

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2012, 04:21:11 pm »

batesville's city limits only have a population of 11k. The surrounding areas like desha, salado, southside, mchue, and locust grove have a population of about 11k all together as well. Being as spread out as we are, two school districts are absolutely needed.
A single school district with well-placed individual schools would do fine for all of Independence County (I lived there for a few years). No need to pay multiple superintendents to have their own little fiefdoms. Whole state of Arkansas should be no more than 90 school districts tops -- 1 for each county, 1 for the 15 or so biggest cities. Some districts might have 2 or 3 high schools, depending on population, but having 200+ school districts is antiquated 1950s-era thinking that Arkansas needs to grow past.

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the_kosher_pig

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2012, 08:22:02 am »

You do know West Monroe is not even close to being the best team in the state don't you? If you are questioning the 3 guys from Monroe they have offers from basically ever top team in the country. Saban is on them hard.
I didn't say anything about individual talent.  Everyone says we need to recruit Texas and Louisiana.  I said Georgia and Florida more.  Then everyone says "the best team in Texas would crush the best team in Arkansas".  No one listens when talking about about the difference in HIGH SCHOOL TEAM talent and HIGH SCHOOL INDIVIDUAL talent.  So I gave an example.  And I clearly stated West Monroe was the second best team in Louisiana, not first.  I've watched West Monroe every year.  I watched them last year.  They won the state championship at 5A last year.  They weren't anything special.  The top 15 athletes in Arkansas would compete with the top 15 athletes at almost every other state.  There are always exceptions but our top talent is just undeveloped.  Lack of competition and resources are the only thing holding us back.

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kentz1

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2012, 06:36:10 pm »

 Like Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Kentucky, Utah, Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Deleware....yea every other state like these...not Texas, Fl, La, Ga, Nc, Ms, Al!!!
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the_kosher_pig

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2012, 08:10:58 am »

Like Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Kentucky, Utah, Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Deleware....yea every other state like these...not Texas, Fl, La, Ga, Nc, Ms, Al!!!
Wow, you're a clever one.  You didn't read a single thing I said you just thought you'd toss in a "joke" and roll on.
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JaketheSnake

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2012, 08:16:31 am »

I didn't say anything about individual talent.  Everyone says we need to recruit Texas and Louisiana.  I said Georgia and Florida more.  Then everyone says "the best team in Texas would crush the best team in Arkansas".  No one listens when talking about about the difference in HIGH SCHOOL TEAM talent and HIGH SCHOOL INDIVIDUAL talent.  So I gave an example.  And I clearly stated West Monroe was the second best team in Louisiana, not first.  I've watched West Monroe every year.  I watched them last year.  They won the state championship at 5A last year.  They weren't anything special.  The top 15 athletes in Arkansas would compete with the top 15 athletes at almost every other state.  There are always exceptions but our top talent is just undeveloped.  Lack of competition and resources are the only thing holding us back.


I think our top 5 athletes can compete overall with the top 5 from other states, but 15 is pushing it.  I'm not exactly a "Star" person, but usually in AR after about #8 we drop to 2* while surrounding states are sometimes still in the 4* range. 
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the_kosher_pig

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Re: Quality of Arkansas High School Football
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2012, 10:38:24 am »

In "recruiting rankings" we drop.  Like I said it's all under developed.  A #15 athlete in Texas might be a line backer who has played line backer his whole life.  In Arkansas a #15 athlete might be someone who is a 6' 180lb running back/safety/qb/defensive end at a AA school lol.  But he also might be a track star, starting short stop, and guard on the basketball team.  Raw athletes are the norm in Arkansas.  As a state that doesn't have the talent pool to choose from we need to get more raw athletes.  Getting half our class from the state won't hurt us like people think. 
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