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Poll

Who "Won" the 1964 College Football National Championship???

  • Alabama (10-1) - - 11 (4.1%)
  • Arkansas (11-0) - - 256 (94.8%)
  • Texas (10-1) - - 0 (0%)
  • Notre Dame (9-1) - - 1 (0.4%)
  • Michigan (9-1) - - 2 (0.7%)

Total Members Voted: 265


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Author Topic: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.  (Read 4088 times)

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BartIV

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The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« on: August 28, 2012, 03:55:46 pm »

1.   Alabama (10-1) – Toughest schedule of any team in 1964. Played 4 Top 10 teams (3-1).
(Florida #9 Steve Spurrier QB, LSU #8, Georgia Tech #10, and Texas #5 who they lost too by 4 points in the Orange Bowl). They also played and beat a very good (7-3-1) Georgia.
*Bear Bryant (coach), Joe Namath (QB), Steve Bowman (RB) and won the SEC Title.

2.   Arkansas (11-0) – Played 2 Top 10 teams in 1964. (2-0)
(Texas #1 and Nebraska #7). They also played and beat a (9-2) Tulsa, but their was nothing special about their schedule.
*Frank Broyles (coach), Bobby Burnett (RB) was a star, Ken Hatfield (KR, PR), and won the SWC Title.

3.   Texas (10-1) – Played 2 Top 10 teams in 1964 (1-1).
(Lost “at home” to Arkansas #8 and beat Alabama #2 in the Orange Bowl by 4 points).
*Darrell Royal (coach), Ernie Koy (RB), didn’t win their conference.

4.   Notre Dame (9-1) – Played 0 Top 10 teams in 1964 and no bowl game.
Beat a (6-3) Purdue and lost to a (7-3) Southern Cal, last game of the season.
*Ara Parseghian (coach), John Huarte (QB) not bad for that time, Bill Wolski (RB), Tony Carey (DB) with 8 Interceptions.

5.   Michigan (9-1) – Played 4 Top 10 teams in 1964. (4-0)
(Navy #6, Michigan State #9, Ohio State #7, Oregon State #8) “Beat all 4”
Only loss came to a (6-3) Purdue and beat a (6-3) Illinois.
*Bump Elliott (coach), Mel Anthony (RB) and won the Big Ten Conference.

Watching college football, I have learned to appreciate Strength of Schedule. Especially these days, its important. Just look at USC who may go undefeated in a joke conference. So I did all this work because I was at home watching the baby today and was bored. Looking it over, I am loving Michigan for the 1964 National Championship. But to get one thing straight, the rankings above were not the season ending rankings, but at the time played. So, look it over and try to make an honest decision.

and yes I know Notre Dame is a joke, but they were in the mix so I had to put them.
*Arkansas was 11-0, not 11-1* SORRY!!!
No way to modify Poll???
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 04:00:21 pm by BartIV »
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EastexHawg

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2012, 04:01:08 pm »

This is a no-brainer.  Not only was Arkansas the only undefeated team at season's end, but they also beat the team that beat the team.  They knocked off #1 Texas who later beat #1 Alabama.

Alabama "winning" the national championship at the time was bad enough, but for someone to look back 48 years, knowing all the facts, and still claim a Bama team that lost to Texas deserves the title instead of an Arkansas team that beat Texas is the height of idiocy.
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HogWall Jackson

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2012, 04:05:39 pm »

This is a no-brainer.  Not only was Arkansas the only undefeated team at season's end, but they also beat the team that beat the team.  They knocked off #1 Texas who later beat #1 Alabama.

Alabama "winning" the national championship at the time was bad enough, but for someone to look back 48 years, knowing all the facts, and still claim a Bama team that lost to Texas deserves the title instead of an Arkansas team that beat Texas is the height of idiocy.

EastTex, as usual you are the man with the facts! I never liked the Longhorns but I was cheering for Tommy Nobis on that Texas goal line stand! Texas turned em' back for the big win.
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DeuceHawg

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2012, 04:08:34 pm »

Hopefully we don't have to focus on the 1964 championship after this year.
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Biggus Piggus

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2012, 04:12:12 pm »

Why does it say 11-1 for Arkansas in the poll? Good lord.
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DEVICEHIGH

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2012, 04:17:51 pm »

We should be like Alabama and claim everything. At least 3
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BartIV

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2012, 04:18:25 pm »

Why does it say 11-1 for Arkansas in the poll? Good lord.
Maybe you should read the bottom of the topic. Yeah, there are words in that discussion box. It was an accident, unfortunately those happen.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 04:28:21 pm by BartIV »
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BartIV

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2012, 04:20:26 pm »

Another thing, I am not saying Alabama or Arkansas deserve it. I am thinking Michigan because of Strength of Schedule. They went 4-0 on ranked teams and beat 2 other good teams. That is more than Alabama or Arkansas did that season.
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nightshift

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2012, 04:36:35 pm »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_college_football_season

ORANGE BOWL    #5 Texas Longhorns    21    #1 Alabama Crimson Tide    17
COTTON BOWL    #2 Arkansas Razorbacks    10    #6 Nebraska Cornhuskers    7


In the Orange Bowl, #1 Alabama, led by quarterback Joe Namath, fell to #5 Texas 21-17. In the final minutes, down by four and facing 4th-and-goal at the Texas 1, Joe Namath ran a quarterback sneak but was stopped short of the goal. In the Cotton Bowl Classic, Arkansas quarterback Fred Marshall drove #2 Arkansas to a touchdown with 4:41 left to beat #6 Nebraska 10-7. Notable members of the 1964 Arkansas team include Jerry Jones, later the billionaire owner of the Dallas Cowboys of the NFL, and Jimmy Johnson, whom Jones would hire as coach of the Cowboys. #5 Michigan routed #8 Oregon State 34-7 in the Rose Bowl, while in the Sugar Bowl, #7 LSU beat unranked Syracuse 10-7 on a late field goal.

A five member committee of the Football Writers Association of America awarded the University of Arkansas Razorbacks the "Grantland Rice Trophy" as the #1 team in a poll taken after the bowl games. The Helms Athletic Foundation, which also took polls after the bowl games, named Arkansas as 1964 National Champions. Notre Dame was named as the National Football Foundation's national champion. In 1965, the AP's final poll came after the bowl games, but the policy did not become permanent until 1968. The Coaches' Poll adopted the same policy in 1974. Arkansas and Alabama legitimately claim the 1964 National Championship, since all selectors of national title teams are documented in the official 2010 NCAA FBS College Football Record Book. These selectors, including the AP Poll and the Coaches' Poll, were nationally-syndicated in newspapers and magazines during the 1964 football season.
------
Bama lost the orange bowl despite them having a stronger schedule they shouldnt have been given there ranking and should have fallen much further than they did. Arkansas won there bowl game and no doubt should have been the undisputed NC's with a undefeated record. :razorback:

« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 04:38:06 pm by nightshift »
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BartIV

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2012, 04:46:28 pm »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_college_football_season

ORANGE BOWL    #5 Texas Longhorns    21    #1 Alabama Crimson Tide    17
COTTON BOWL    #2 Arkansas Razorbacks    10    #6 Nebraska Cornhuskers    7


In the Orange Bowl, #1 Alabama, led by quarterback Joe Namath, fell to #5 Texas 21-17. In the final minutes, down by four and facing 4th-and-goal at the Texas 1, Joe Namath ran a quarterback sneak but was stopped short of the goal. In the Cotton Bowl Classic, Arkansas quarterback Fred Marshall drove #2 Arkansas to a touchdown with 4:41 left to beat #6 Nebraska 10-7. Notable members of the 1964 Arkansas team include Jerry Jones, later the billionaire owner of the Dallas Cowboys of the NFL, and Jimmy Johnson, whom Jones would hire as coach of the Cowboys. #5 Michigan routed #8 Oregon State 34-7 in the Rose Bowl, while in the Sugar Bowl, #7 LSU beat unranked Syracuse 10-7 on a late field goal.

A five member committee of the Football Writers Association of America awarded the University of Arkansas Razorbacks the "Grantland Rice Trophy" as the #1 team in a poll taken after the bowl games. The Helms Athletic Foundation, which also took polls after the bowl games, named Arkansas as 1964 National Champions. Notre Dame was named as the National Football Foundation's national champion. In 1965, the AP's final poll came after the bowl games, but the policy did not become permanent until 1968. The Coaches' Poll adopted the same policy in 1974. Arkansas and Alabama legitimately claim the 1964 National Championship, since all selectors of national title teams are documented in the official 2010 NCAA FBS College Football Record Book. These selectors, including the AP Poll and the Coaches' Poll, were nationally-syndicated in newspapers and magazines during the 1964 football season.
------
Bama lost the orange bowl despite them having a stronger schedule they shouldnt have been given there ranking and should have fallen much further than they did. Arkansas won there bowl game and no doubt should have been the undisputed NC's with a undefeated record. :razorback:


Here is Michigans 1 loss.
Bob Timberlake ran 54 yards for a touchdown making the score 21-20 Purdue, and Michigan had the option to kick an extra point to tie the game or go for the lead with a two-point conversion. Coach Elliott called for the two-point conversion; Timberlake carried the ball on an end run but was stopped short of the goal line. Michigan's defense forced punts on the next two Purdue drives, but Michigan was unable to score on its final drives. The Wolverines fumbled on one drive and failed to convert a fourth down on the final drive.
 The Wolverines lost despite outgaining the Boilermakers 435 yards to 268.
I am still liking the Wolverines for the Championship after reading this.
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pigmailyen

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2012, 04:59:05 pm »

As for '64, AP and UPI say it was Bama.  The next season, they changed to voting for #1 after the bowls.  We had it sewn up for sure at the end of the '65 season.  We win the '66 Cotton Bowl and weeeee are the chammmmmpions...unfortunately, LSU intervened. 

Frank must have thought "WTH??"
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GlassofSwine

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2012, 05:18:37 pm »

Another thing, I am not saying Alabama or Arkansas deserve it. I am thinking Michigan because of Strength of Schedule. They went 4-0 on ranked teams and beat 2 other good teams. That is more than Alabama or Arkansas did that season.

 You must be trolling to say that an 11-0 Arkansas team that beat all comers including a Texas team that beat Alabama and finished the year as the only undefeated team does not deserve it compared to Michigan which lost to a 6-3 Purdue team. It's not like Arkansas played a Boise State schedule that year.
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BartIV

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2012, 05:29:04 pm »

You must be trolling to say that an 11-0 Arkansas team that beat all comers including a Texas team that beat Alabama and finished the year as the only undefeated team does not deserve it compared to Michigan which lost to a 6-3 Purdue team. It's not like Arkansas played a Boise State schedule that year.
No trolling, just objective. I am a die hard Razorback fan, but I am no Sunshine Schaffer either. I just like what Michigan did that year, more than the Razorbacks, who had a great year.
I will hate to see a undefeated USC team played another undefeated team from another conference (Texas or Oklahoma) besides the SEC because they both didn't have a hard SEC schedule. Like I said before I am all about strength of schedule. Michigan had a harder road than the rest in 1964.
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Tejano Jawg

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2012, 05:33:36 pm »

Last time I checked, you can't do much better than 11-0. So Texas, Michigan and, yes, you Alabama...sit your @ss down.
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Root66

Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2012, 05:37:17 pm »

Why does it say 11-1 for Arkansas in the poll? Good lord.

You really want the answer to that?
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BartIV

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2012, 05:40:45 pm »

You really want the answer to that?
Good Lord, does no one understand what an accident is. I posted it was an accident the second I saw it and asked a moderator to fix it. You are not allowed to fix a Poll Question.

ARKANSAS WAS 11-0 in 1964 FOR ALL THE PEOPLE WHO COULD HAVE BEEN CONFUSED.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 05:42:30 pm by BartIV »
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Root66

Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2012, 05:41:18 pm »

As for '64, AP and UPI say it was Bama. 

Hey look! This AP article said Tom Dewey beat Harry Truman in 1948.

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Danny J

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2012, 05:42:03 pm »

This is a no-brainer.  Not only was Arkansas the only undefeated team at season's end, but they also beat the team that beat the team.  They knocked off #1 Texas who later beat #1 Alabama.

Alabama "winning" the national championship at the time was bad enough, but for someone to look back 48 years, knowing all the facts, and still claim a Bama team that lost to Texas deserves the title instead of an Arkansas team that beat Texas is the height of idiocy.
Yep....would love for some of the bama posters here in MMQB to come around and see if they can defend "their" 64 title claims.
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BartIV

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2012, 05:45:29 pm »

Yep....would love for some of the bama posters here in MMQB to come around and see if they can defend "their" 64 title claims.
They could defend their 64 title claims i believe. before 1965, the votes were cast before the bowl games so they gave it to bama who was also 10-0 at the time and had the tougher schedule at that point, but then Texas happened so they changed the voting for the next year for after bowl games. So in the books, bama has it.
I am a objective Razorback fan.
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GlassofSwine

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2012, 05:48:57 pm »

No trolling, just objective. I am a die hard Razorback fan, but I am no Sunshine Schaffer either. I just like what Michigan did that year, more than the Razorbacks, who had a great year.
I will hate to see a undefeated USC team played another undefeated team from another conference (Texas or Oklahoma) besides the SEC because they both didn't have a hard SEC schedule. Like I said before I am all about strength of schedule. Michigan had a harder road than the rest in 1964.

 Alright then, lets look at last year

 3 teams had 1 loss. One of them beat 8 ranked opponents the other 5 each.  Only one of those teams beat every ranked opponent they played. That was Oklahoma State. Oklahoma State shared no common opponents for comparison but you know that loss to a un-ranked Iowa State is bad and it's bad in the same way that loss to Purdue is. However, at least Oklahoma State had an excuse to be emotionally down. Michigan didn't.

 IF the SOS argument is the only one you want to hang your hat on then LSU should be the NC from last year in your mind too, as they had a far tougher schedule and beat the only team that beat them and ended up with more wins.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2012, 05:50:46 pm »

1.   Alabama (10-1) – Toughest schedule of any team in 1964. Played 4 Top 10 teams (3-1).
(Florida #9 Steve Spurrier QB, LSU #8, Georgia Tech #10, and Texas #5 who they lost too by 4 points in the Orange Bowl). They also played and beat a very good (7-3-1) Georgia.
*Bear Bryant (coach), Joe Namath (QB), Steve Bowman (RB) and won the SEC Title.

2.   Arkansas (11-0) – Played 2 Top 10 teams in 1964. (2-0)
(Texas #1 and Nebraska #7). They also played and beat a (9-2) Tulsa, but their was nothing special about their schedule.
*Frank Broyles (coach), Bobby Burnett (RB) was a star, Ken Hatfield (KR, PR), and won the SWC Title.

3.   Texas (10-1) – Played 2 Top 10 teams in 1964 (1-1).
(Lost “at home” to Arkansas #8 and beat Alabama #2 in the Orange Bowl by 4 points).
*Darrell Royal (coach), Ernie Koy (RB), didn’t win their conference.

4.   Notre Dame (9-1) – Played 0 Top 10 teams in 1964 and no bowl game.
Beat a (6-3) Purdue and lost to a (7-3) Southern Cal, last game of the season.
*Ara Parseghian (coach), John Huarte (QB) not bad for that time, Bill Wolski (RB), Tony Carey (DB) with 8 Interceptions.

5.   Michigan (9-1) – Played 4 Top 10 teams in 1964. (4-0)
(Navy #6, Michigan State #9, Ohio State #7, Oregon State #8) “Beat all 4”
Only loss came to a (6-3) Purdue and beat a (6-3) Illinois.
*Bump Elliott (coach), Mel Anthony (RB) and won the Big Ten Conference.

Watching college football, I have learned to appreciate Strength of Schedule. Especially these days, its important. Just look at USC who may go undefeated in a joke conference. So I did all this work because I was at home watching the baby today and was bored. Looking it over, I am loving Michigan for the 1964 National Championship. But to get one thing straight, the rankings above were not the season ending rankings, but at the time played. So, look it over and try to make an honest decision.

and yes I know Notre Dame is a joke, but they were in the mix so I had to put them.
*Arkansas was 11-0, not 11-1* SORRY!!!
No way to modify Poll???

Dude you have got to be kidding...................
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HoopS

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2012, 05:51:22 pm »

I'm still loving undefeated over 1 loss to a pretty good, not great, team. 

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Inhogswetrust

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2012, 05:56:04 pm »

You must be trolling to say that an 11-0 Arkansas team that beat all comers including a Texas team that beat Alabama and finished the year as the only undefeated team does not deserve it compared to Michigan which lost to a 6-3 Purdue team. It's not like Arkansas played a Boise State schedule that year.

He is a wolf in sheep's clothing. If there is a such thing as a troll he is it.
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Albert Einswine

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2012, 05:57:00 pm »

1977 is a much better debate, but I think we have the best argument there, too.


Bama will claim '64 because they have the AP Trophy in their case.  We should have been the NC after the '77 season and Orange Bowl bludgeoning of Oklahoma but couldn't overcome the Notre Dame bias.
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BartIV

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2012, 06:03:20 pm »

Alright then, lets look at last year

 3 teams had 1 loss. One of them beat 8 ranked opponents the other 5 each.  Only one of those teams beat every ranked opponent they played. That was Oklahoma State. Oklahoma State shared no common opponents for comparison but you know that loss to a un-ranked Iowa State is bad and it's bad in the same way that loss to Purdue is. However, at least Oklahoma State had an excuse to be emotionally down. Michigan didn't.

 IF the SOS argument is the only one you want to hang your hat on then LSU should be the NC from last year in your mind too, as they had a far tougher schedule and beat the only team that beat them and ended up with more wins.
I was one of those that thought Alabama vs LSU in the championship game was a joke. I would have preferred LSU vs Oklahoma State (that one loss team instead of Alabama). I love OSU wins over Texas, Oklahoma and Baylor last year, But the system is as screwed up now as it was back then.
But looking over some of the arguments, I like Arkansas more with the win over Texas at Texas home. Then Texas beating Alabama, so I could totally put Arkansas in that #1 spot.
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OneTuskOverTheLine™

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2012, 06:06:35 pm »

Here is Michigans 1 loss.
Bob Timberlake ran 54 yards for a touchdown making the score 21-20 Purdue, and Michigan had the option to kick an extra point to tie the game or go for the lead with a two-point conversion. Coach Elliott called for the two-point conversion; Timberlake carried the ball on an end run but was stopped short of the goal line. Michigan's defense forced punts on the next two Purdue drives, but Michigan was unable to score on its final drives. The Wolverines fumbled on one drive and failed to convert a fourth down on the final drive.
 The Wolverines lost despite outgaining the Boilermakers 435 yards to 268.
I am still liking the Wolverines for the Championship after reading this.

Then you're crazy...
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2012, 06:08:19 pm »

They could defend their 64 title claims i believe. before 1965, the votes were cast before the bowl games so they gave it to bama who was also 10-0 at the time and had the tougher schedule at that point, but then Texas happened so they changed the voting for the next year for after bowl games. So in the books, bama has it.
I am a objective Razorback fan.

Bama has it some polls. Arkansas in some polls. The one's that matter which should be AFTER the bowl games when ALL the games have been played for the season say Arkansas. It is ridiculous to award a championship BEFORE all the games have been played for the season.
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BartIV

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2012, 06:09:00 pm »

Then you're crazy...
About 4 different teams claim to be National Champions for the 1964 season. Now that is crazy.
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BartIV

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2012, 06:09:50 pm »

Bama has it some polls. Arkansas in some polls. The one's that matter which should be AFTER the bowl games when ALL the games have been played for the season say Arkansas. It is ridiculous to award a championship BEFORE all the games have been played for the season.
That is the way they did things back then. Don't blame me, blame the system.
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razorbacker3

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2012, 06:09:58 pm »

No trolling, just objective. I am a die hard Razorback fan, but I am no Sunshine Schaffer either. I just like what Michigan did that year, more than the Razorbacks, who had a great year.
I will hate to see a undefeated USC team played another undefeated team from another conference (Texas or Oklahoma) besides the SEC because they both didn't have a hard SEC schedule. Like I said before I am all about strength of schedule. Michigan had a harder road than the rest in 1964.
and they stumbled on that road. It is not possible for every team to play equal schedules. They lost. We didn't. Being objective says only one thing...Arkansas would have been crowned Champs in all senarios today and you know that's true.
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BartIV

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2012, 06:11:35 pm »

and they stumbled on that road. It is not possible for every team to play equal schedules. They lost. We didn't. Being objective says only one thing...Arkansas would have been crowned Champs in all senarios today and you know that's true.
this
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hogfan58

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2012, 07:51:08 pm »

What's sad is that because of what happened in 1964 (and us getting screwed out of the NC), the rule change in 1965 cost us that one. How many teams can have a 22 game winning streak, but no NC to show for it?
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ark30inf

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2012, 07:54:50 pm »

There is no rational debate about this.  Alabama can only claim this title by gaming a flaw in the system at the time.  But it's a free country and they can do that.  Not sure it's that big a deal.
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Root66

Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2012, 08:04:00 pm »

There is no rational debate about this.  Alabama can only claim this title by gaming a flaw in the system at the time.  But it's a free country and they can do that.  Not sure it's that big a deal.

It's that big a deal with the Broyles haters.  That weak crap is all they have to hang their hat on.
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Albert Einswine

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2012, 08:06:19 pm »

There is no rational debate about this.  Alabama can only claim this title by gaming a flaw in the system at the time.  But it's a free country and they can do that.  Not sure it's that big a deal.

As far as I'm concerned we're the legit Champions from that season.  But you can't take their AP Trophy away from them.
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Root66

Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2012, 08:09:03 pm »

As far as I'm concerned we're the legit Champions from that season.  But you can't take their AP Trophy away from them.

No, all you can do is point at it and snicker. Well maybe the right person might try to poison it. ;)
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Albert Einswine

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2012, 08:12:14 pm »

No, all you can do is point at it and snicker. Well maybe the right person might try to poison it. ;)


Alabama* 1964* AP National Champions*


*Not really ;)
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ark30inf

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2012, 08:24:45 pm »

Being objective says only one thing...Arkansas would have been crowned Champs in all senarios today and you know that's true.

Yep.  And that's the bottom line.
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Tejano Jawg

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2012, 08:30:27 pm »

From SECRant.com.

An Alabama fan said this:
Bama 1964 won both the AP and the Coaches (UPI) trophy.

Ohhhhh...you mean you got a TROPHY?? Well! That changes EVERYTHING!   ::)

And this from an LSU fan:
Re: 1964 Championship

Alabama- 10–1>> AP, B(QPRS), L, UPI = 4 votes
Arkansas-11–0>> BR, CFRA, FWAA, HAF, NCF, PS, SR = 6 votes
Michigan- 9–1>> DuS = 1 vote
Notre Dame- 9–1>> DeS, FN, NFF = 3 votes

My guess is that '64 is one of many years that Bama "claims" the championship. Amazing how you can still claim the championship when you lost to a team the real champion beat.


That's more like it.
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redeye

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2012, 08:58:27 pm »

Another thing, I am not saying Alabama or Arkansas deserve it. I am thinking Michigan because of Strength of Schedule. They went 4-0 on ranked teams and beat 2 other good teams. That is more than Alabama or Arkansas did that season.

College football rankings are subjective, so you can pick whoever you want. Although Michigan was great in the sixties, I think the Big Ten was overrated for many years, until the SEC began embarrassing it.

But the thing I can't get over is how Michigan lost to a three-loss team and you still think they're more deserving then our undefeated team? Our schedule was no walkover and I also question whether Navy or Oregon State were as good as advertised back then.

Regardless, Michigan didn't play anyone who was a true national contender that year, while we beat Texas. Giving them the nod is analogous to saying that Arkansas should have won it last year, because we beat top-10 teams in KSU, SC and even A&M was ranked up there shortly before we beat them. None of those schools could even come close to playing on the same level as Alabama or LSU, as we both know.
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BuschHawg

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2012, 09:03:18 pm »

I don't care if someone likes Slippery Rock for the 1964 Championship. Arkansas won the championship any way you twist or turn it. After losing to Texas, Alabama didn't even rank in second place. Alabama's claim to the 1964 championship only serves to diminish their legitimate accomplishments. Their's is a fraudulent claim and they know it. I wish someone would give some convincing rationale why Michigan might even be considered.
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Albert Einswine

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2012, 09:06:28 pm »

Another thing, I am not saying Alabama or Arkansas deserve it. I am thinking Michigan because of Strength of Schedule. They went 4-0 on ranked teams and beat 2 other good teams. That is more than Alabama or Arkansas did that season.


Bart, do you have any familial ties to Michigan? 
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RollTideHog

Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2012, 09:24:10 pm »

The Associated Press presented the AP Trophy to the Alabama Crimson Tide due to their 10-0-0 regular season record and their #1 finish in the AP poll.

The University of Arkansas also had a 10-0-0 regular season in 1964, but finished #2 in the final AP poll.

The Arkansas Razorbacks also did not win the UPI Poll in 1964

The Arkansas Razorbacks were named national champion by the Football Writers Association of America.

And the poll that carried the most weight then was UPI & AP so you cannot argue with facts

but Michigan did not finish 1st in the polls and that is what counts not who is the best
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 09:26:06 pm by RollTideHog »
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HG

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2012, 09:36:49 pm »

If the question is who "won" the title, then we did.  If the question is who actually won it, then Bama did.  It's not one of their mythical ones (except insofar as all titles are mythical without a playoff) because the polls did award it to them.  It's not fair, but that's how it goes.  We can still claim to have deserved the title that year, thanks to beating Texas.  I'm not one of those that thinks any undefeated team is automatically better than any team with a loss, since that's clearly not been the case in certain years.  But beating Texas bolsters our claim pretty nicely.
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uams1989

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2012, 09:38:16 pm »

Yep....would love for some of the bama posters here in MMQB to come around and see if they can defend "their" 64 title claims.

I know it is a complete waste of time to do this, but...

It was the system at the time.  I believe bowls should matter, but, that was not how the system worked at the time.  The AP and UPI awarded their trophies to Alabama.  They sit in the Bryant Museum in Tuscaloosa.

So, if the NCAA decided to change the format for the Basketball format, you'd willfully agree that the Hog's championship was not valid?  You can argue that it was settled on the court and I completely agree, but, that was the system in 1996 (or whenever it was.)

I love how Arkansas fans take shots at Bama about all the championships Bama claims, and especially the ones that are not nationally recognized or were before the national wire services were established.  Yet, when Bama claims the 1964 national title...awarded by the AP and UPI, y'all become hypocritical and want to claim one of those "illegitimate" titles.  If the others are illegitimate for Bama, then, 1964 is illegitimate for Arkansas.

But y'all keep trying...the standards of college football championships sit in Tuscaloosa.

BTW, I have no problem with Arkansas claiming a split championship in 1964.  But don't be hypocritical and say Bama has no claim.

And for those of you that think the Hogs have a claim to 1977...Bama was the highest ranked team (at #3) that won their bowl game.  Notre Dame being named #1 was and is still a farce! 
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cosmodrum

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2012, 09:38:25 pm »

One of the top idiots on hogville.

Wear it with honor; it's an incredible feat.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #46 on: August 28, 2012, 09:39:29 pm »

That is the way they did things back then. Don't blame me, blame the system.
I was alive back then. I do blame the system but for you to announce Michigan is like you are saying the system back then was fine and we know it wasn't.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #47 on: August 28, 2012, 09:42:11 pm »

What's sad is that because of what happened in 1964 (and us getting screwed out of the NC), the rule change in 1965 cost us that one. How many teams can have a 22 game winning streak, but no NC to show for it?

But we were not screwed out of a NC  in 64. We have a trophy in our trophy case that says we won it.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 08:22:36 am by Inhogswetrust »
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cosmodrum

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2012, 09:42:19 pm »

Michigan...lol.

What a weak ass troll attempt.

Get a girlfriend. If you have one, get a better one.
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Huds_HawgTide

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Re: The 1964 College Football Championship Debate.
« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2012, 09:43:30 pm »

i say we take the 1909 (?), 64', 65', and 77' trophies...only fair....bama, texas, michigan, and notre dame would all find some way to claim these
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