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Baseball cheating

Started by Razor6, June 20, 2012, 12:26:48 pm

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Razor6

June 20, 2012, 12:26:48 pm
Anyone cactch the Rays pitcher ejection for cheating? 

Seems like ejection isn't severe enough (to me). 
I was there when we melted the internet!  Were you?

ErieHog

June 20, 2012, 12:31:47 pm #1
Saw it;  as long as there has been baseball, there have been cheaters.   I expect he will get additional punishment, and that the punishment will likely be appealed (then reduced)-- but it will come in due time.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."
 

Razor6

June 20, 2012, 12:38:27 pm #2
His old organization (the Nationals) leaked the information as he was pitching against them (with the Rays).

It can be assumed that every game that he pitched for the Nationals he cheated (and they knew it?).  It can also be assumed that every game he pitched for the Rays, he has been cheating.

That being said... (for my knowledge) what does Pine Tar do for a pitcher?

Secondly... Should every game be forfeited that he "cheated in" or does it "just not matter"?



Quote from: ErieHog on June 20, 2012, 12:31:47 pm
Saw it;  as long as there has been baseball, there have been cheaters.   I expect he will get additional punishment, and that the punishment will likely be appealed (then reduced)-- but it will come in due time.
I was there when we melted the internet!  Were you?

bsking

June 20, 2012, 10:57:24 pm #3
Pine tar helps a pitcher stick to the baseball and get a lot more spin on their pitches.

You can't make them forfeit.  People cheat in baseball.  I'm old school, if you can cheat and not get caught, more power to ya.  I'm looking at you Jose Bautista.

Razor6

June 20, 2012, 11:39:22 pm #4
Quote from: bsking on June 20, 2012, 10:57:24 pm
Pine tar helps a pitcher stick to the baseball and get a lot more spin on their pitches.

You can't make them forfeit.  People cheat in baseball.  I'm old school, if you can cheat and not get caught, more power to ya.  I'm looking at you Jose Bautista.

Seems to me like the league might be used to it too, based upon what I saw on ESPN.  "Oh hey, is that sand paper?  Ok, cool... Go sit this game out cause you are ejected... See you tomorrow"

For some reason I think this should be a much bigger deal.

What would happen if they cheated in the college level?

AND... What are signs that umpires notice when a pitcher is cheating?
I was there when we melted the internet!  Were you?

NotStupid

June 21, 2012, 12:10:12 pm #5
Quote from: bsking on June 20, 2012, 10:57:24 pm
Pine tar helps a pitcher stick to the baseball and get a lot more spin on their pitches.

You can't make them forfeit.  People cheat in baseball.  I'm old school, if you can cheat and not get caught, more power to ya.  I'm looking at you Jose Bautista.

Yep.  There are a million different ways to cheat in baseball and everybody does it to some extent.  Sometimes you get caught, sometimes you don't.

bsking

June 21, 2012, 02:54:39 pm #6
Quote from: Razor6 on June 20, 2012, 11:39:22 pm
Seems to me like the league might be used to it too, based upon what I saw on ESPN.  "Oh hey, is that sand paper?  Ok, cool... Go sit this game out cause you are ejected... See you tomorrow"

For some reason I think this should be a much bigger deal.

What would happen if they cheated in the college level?

AND... What are signs that umpires notice when a pitcher is cheating?

The only way to catch a pitcher cheating is to actually see him doctor the ball (pine tar, vasoline, sand paper, file, etc) or see the ball and search him.

Like NotStupid said, everybody cheats in some way.  Some pitchers "blow" on their hard when their really spitting on it on the mound.  If you're not trying to steal signs you don't want to win bad enough.  Numerous corked bat incidents and for every one we've caught there have probably been 30 not caught.

clutch

June 21, 2012, 11:51:07 pm #7
Quote from: bsking on June 21, 2012, 02:54:39 pm
The only way to catch a pitcher cheating is to actually see him doctor the ball (pine tar, vasoline, sand paper, file, etc) or see the ball and search him.

Like NotStupid said, everybody cheats in some way.  Some pitchers "blow" on their hard when their really spitting on it on the mound.  If you're not trying to steal signs you don't want to win bad enough.  Numerous corked bat incidents and for every one we've caught there have probably been 30 not caught.

The corked bat guys aren't cheating..... They just accidentally grabbed their batting practice bats like Sosa. hahaha

bsking

June 22, 2012, 12:05:20 am #8
Quote from: clutch on June 21, 2012, 11:51:07 pm
The corked bat guys aren't cheating..... They just accidentally grabbed their batting practice bats like Sosa. hahaha

I know right.  Lamest excuse of all time.

clutch

June 22, 2012, 12:08:38 am #9
Quote from: bsking on June 22, 2012, 12:05:20 am
I know right.  Lamest excuse of all time.

Sosa was good with those. I know there hasn't been any proof of him juicing yet, but my favorite excuse from him was when they asked him if he was taking any performance enhancers and he said all he takes is Flintstones vitamins.

beebefootballfan

June 22, 2012, 07:49:05 pm #10
Eddie: Crisco, Bardol, Vagisil. Any one of them will give you another two to three inches drop on your curve ball. 'Course if the umps are watching me real close I just rub a little jalapeño juice up my nose, get it runnin', and if I need to load the ball up I just...wipe my nose.

Rick: You put snot on the ball?

Eddie: I haven't got an arm like yours; I have to put anything on it I can find. Someday you will too.
"The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."- Alexis de Tocqueville

Chief_Osceola

July 06, 2012, 10:58:44 am #11
Quote from: Razor6 on June 20, 2012, 12:38:27 pm
His old organization (the Nationals) leaked the information as he was pitching against them (with the Rays).

It can be assumed that every game that he pitched for the Nationals he cheated (and they knew it?).  It can also be assumed that every game he pitched for the Rays, he has been cheating.

That being said... (for my knowledge) what does Pine Tar do for a pitcher?

Secondly... Should every game be forfeited that he "cheated in" or does it "just not matter"?

My son and I had a pretty interesting debate on this the other day.  His argument was that it was bullcrap by the Nationals to rat out their friend and former teammate.  My argument was that it was excellent gamesmanship by the Nats and that both Peralta and Washington were doing everything they could to get a competitive advantage.
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