B1G's Delany, Pac's Scott will try to weasel teams in CFB Playoff

[jbcarol]

Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delany, who has floated ideas for how a four-team college football playoff should be set up, said Wednesday that any new format shouldn't include a team that doesn't win its division.

"I don't have a lot of regard for that team," Delany said in a telephone interview with the Associated Press. "I certainly wouldn't have as much regard for that team as I would for someone who played nine conference games in a tough conference and played a couple out-of-conference games on the road against really good opponents. If a poll doesn't honor those teams and they're conference champions, I do."


In 2011, "that team" using Delany's words would be Alabama.

The B1G and Pac-12 commissioners in separate interviews are trying to minimize the SEC football schedule of eight conference games with an FCS opponent and build up their nine-game schedules with a Pac-12 and B1G matchup added. 

What's wrong with that?

The SEC schools, mostly by virtue of conference competition annually lead the country in most Top 10, Top 15, Top 20, Top 25 opponents.  That's preseason, mid-season, post-season.  The SEC knocks teams out of the rankings and other teams on their schedule replace them in the rankings. The SEC schools have generally played more teams that provide a substantial risk of providing a loss for a potential national champion.
The SOS formula generally counts each of the 12 games equally.  Facing Georgia State is the same as LSU. That is each comprise 1/12th of the final regular season SOS calculation despite LSU providing much greater risk of a loss. Facing Minnesota is the same as facing Indiana. Each count as 1/12th. However, the FCS teams will generally provide a larger number or weight to the numerator of the weighted average for a 12 game schedule. 

Oversimplification, but say Arkansas plays a 3-game stretch with LSU (2), Bama (1), and JaxSt (164).  Wisconsin plays Purdue (65), Northwestern (58), and Penn St. (28).

If you eye-ball it, a reasonable person would say Arkansas played a tougher stretch.  But the calculation would say Wisconsin played a slightly tougher stretch because JaxSt.'s 164 ranking alone exceeds the sum of Wisconsin's three opponents.

Over a twelve game season this smooths out a little bit.  Still, the teams sporting the toughest SOS based on this type of calculation are generally playing a nine-game conference schedule with no FCS games.  In 2011 that would be the Big 12. In recent years past it was the conference formally known as the Pac 10.

The Big 12 held SOS positions in the 1-13 range (including 1-6) using the Sagarin SOS rankings as one example.  The SEC held positions in the 7-41 range.   By the way, LSU was ranked 7th.  Were there six Big 12 schools who played a tougher schedule than LSU did in 2011 counting the SEC-CG and the BCS-CG?  Were there four more who very close?

What's interesting is that even with ranking SOS this way, the SEC top-to-bottom had better SOS than either the B1G or the Pac-12 in 2012.

Delany's playing poker. He wants the SEC to up to a nine-game schedule with "two tough road opponents out of conference".  With the likelihood that few if any SEC teams can escape undefeated much less with one loss, he hopes to squeeze his sometimes unmeritied schools in the "Final Four". It's his job.

If the SEC does not fold and sticks with an 8-game schedule and no restriction on out-of-conference scheduling, he will want the "Final Four" formula to include a SOS measure that benefits his conference.

Per Sagarin, Bama's SOS ranking for 2011 was 15th.  Wisconsin's was 44th. Delany's got work to do.

[NaturalStateReb]

Just goes to show we need an 8+ team playoff so these losers can wash out early.

[TomDavidEsq.]

Delaney encompasses all that is corrupt in college athletics.

[The Hogfather]

He scare.

What's interesting is that even with ranking SOS this way, the SEC top-to-bottom had better SOS than either the B1G or the Pac-12 in 2012.

Ha!

[hogsanity]

There will never be a playoff of 8 teams or less that allows anyting but conf champs.  Will have to go to 12 or 16 to get wild cards.  If they go to 8, it will be the current 6 bcs league champs, plus the next 2 highest rated champs from non-bcs leagues.  The whole push for a playoff has come from the SEC dominating the bcs.  Placing 2 teams in bcs games almost every year and one in the title game every year for 7? years now.  A playoff gives 3-5 chances ( depending on size of field ) to knock off the SEC.   

[bigdaddyhawg]

Just goes to show we need an 8+ team playoff so these losers can wash out early.

That's what I've said all along.

Any team that has any real claim to national title contenders would be in the top 8. 

Then it's a completely different discussion who got left out.

[bigdaddyhawg]

Delaney encompasses all that is corrupt in college athletics.

I wrote this in another thread, but I'm afraid this playoff deal is a long, long ways from coming to fruition, and that Delany and the Big 10 are just stubborn enough to walk away if they don't get it the way they want it.

[hogzfu]

Lol you guys still 'excited' about a playoff?

It will be #1 vs #10 and  #5 vs #4 and your championship game will be Sec #1 killing a #4 team.


College football is the greatest sport on earth. Why would everyone want to go and mess up something working.


Yes lets expand to 8 teams that is 3 weeks of playoffs and trust me guys, 8 teams will be decided by a 'committee' a BCS committee. Your #20 Michigan and #15 Ohio state will ALWAYS make that 8 team playoff.

The razorbacks would have to be a #5 or better to ever be selected. Even then the bcs commitee will play the strength of schedule card (and we all know it is false)



Careful what you wish and ask for.

[bigdaddyhawg]

College football is the greatest sport on earth. Why would everyone want to go and mess up something working.

Let me give you an illustration:

Say you have a Mustang GT, and it's tuned up and running great.  But you could only afford Wal-Mart tires on it, but it's still a great car to drive.

Then someone offers you a set of high performance Goodyear Eagles or Hansho whatevers.  You turn a new set of high performance tires down because what you've got is working and you don't want to mess with it?

A playoff only improves CFB in every way -- there is NO down side to it!

Not a single argument against it holds water for a second.

[hogsanity]

A playoff only improves CFB in every way -- there is NO down side to it!

Not a single argument against it holds water for a second.

Really?  Even if those 8 teams are the 6 current bcs league champs, and the 2 highest ranked non bcs league champs? 

[jbcarol]

al.com: Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany takes apparent shot at Alabama (reader comments; priceless)

The commissioners of the 11 Football Bowl Subdivision conferences, along with Notre Dame's athletic director Jack Swarbrick, will meet again in June to attempt to come to an agreement on a postseason model for college football that they hope to present to university presidents for approval by July 4.

[bigdaddyhawg]

Really?  Even if those 8 teams are the 6 current bcs league champs, and the 2 highest ranked non bcs league champs? 

I would go for that in a second.

Seed them in the manner the BCS rankings are done now, and let em rip!!

[big_daddy_gasoline_pants]

OSU and Stanford dodged a bullet not having to play Alabama or LSU.  I'm pretty sure everyone in the country knew in the back of their mind they didn't want their team playing either one of those two.

[jbcarol]

The second best gift LSU gave Bama was scheduling and beating Oregon.

Even if they had not, the best two teams played in the BCS-NC.

[jbcarol]

Nick Saban fired away -- or possibly "back" -- at "some of these people in these leagues" who out of "self-preservation purposes" have proposed limiting the coming playoff to conference champions only. And does Saban think such a plan would "accomplish what we set out to accomplish" in the overhaul of the BCS?

"Hell no," he said. Your move, Mr. Delany.

[RollHogTide]

At the end of the day, regardless of what format is chosen for the "playoff" - there will be teams and conferences that walk away with a serious case of butt-hurt (just like the current system).  Today - the SEC is at the top of the mountain, but eventually the cyclic nature of college football will turn back to the Pac-12, Big-12, Big-10, or ACC and then they'll want the rules changed AGAIN.  I know it's been argued ad infintum on every talk sports show today, but just let the Top-4, 6, or 8 (whatever number people are happy with) play it out. 

Whether Bama deserved to play for the NC is irrelevant, it happened, Bama won, and we are coming into a new season.   Every team in a BCS conferences is undefeated and must play their way into whatever post season bowl they have an opportunity to play - undefeated, and you will probably play in the NC game.  Lose a game or two and it's out of the team's hands.

[hogzfu]

A playoff only improves CFB in every way -- there is NO down side to it!

Not a single argument against it holds water for a second.

I do not call names a lot online... but seriously.. that is the ost ignorant idiotic "I am a feed me darn [CENSORED]" statement I have ever seen... and like... its people like you that have empowered the BCS ... I bet you VOTED FOR CHANGE in the 90s too ... lol


at you

and your like.

[hogzfu]

Really?  Even if those 8 teams are the 6 current bcs league champs, and the 2 highest ranked non bcs league champs?

Its not going to be that way.. more than 4 teams has already been stated will automatically go to a selection committee by the corporation that hosts the event.


BCS SELECTION.... read articles more. There is actually a STRONG push to select the 4 teams in a 4team playoff...


you people supporting all of this are supporting a disaster.


WE should all wait till the death of the BCS.. THEN try this.

[WBOBO]

Do an average of 5 polls which include 3 human interaction and 2 computer.  Take the average of the top 8 and let the games begin.  Give no money to the losers of the first round and pay out only to the top four.  All rounds played on neutral fields.  Let's see who wants to put up or shut up.

[hogzfu]

Do an average of 5 polls which include 3 human interaction and 2 computer.  Take the average of the top 8 and let the games begin.  Give no money to the losers of the first round and pay out only to the top four.  All rounds played on neutral fields.  Let's see who wants to put up or shut up.

I agree.. if it stays this way.. im all in

[BorderPatrol]

I agree.. if it stays this way.. im all in

And if it doesn't?

bp

[WBOBO]

The fact of the matter is the Big 10 got violated without lube in the 2010 bowls by Alabama and Mississippi St.  They beat those teams like they would a
division 2 school.  Their feelings got hurt, and want revenge against the SEC.

To me, it was another SEC Saturday matchup and it just so happened to be Big 10 teams caught up in the game.

And yes, Alabama was the best team in the nation after they beat Michigan St. in the bowl and proved it this following season.

I don't like them, but I call it like I see it, and they are our meausuring stick
every year.

[jamie72921]

Let me give you an illustration:

Say you have a Mustang GT, and it's tuned up and running great.  But you could only afford Wal-Mart tires on it, but it's still a great car to drive.

Then someone offers you a set of high performance Goodyear Eagles or Hansho whatevers.  You turn a new set of high performance tires down because what you've got is working and you don't want to mess with it?

A playoff only improves CFB in every way -- there is NO down side to it!

Not a single argument against it holds water for a second.

I want to see the two best teams play for it all. Period.

A playoff that the Big1, Pac12, and Big Minus agree to will NOT provide this.

It will be purposely designed to exclude as many SEC participants as possible as the article in the beginning of the thread pointed out.

If you think that is better than watching 1 and 2 battle it out, you are daft.

[WorfHog]

Oklahoma State was the only team that deserved a shot and they would have been embarrassed by either Alabama or LSU.  Watch the LSU West Virginia game. 

[Albert Einswine]

Delaney is a weasel.  Look at those beady little eyes.  I really don't like the chump.  He had no problem with the prospect of an Ohio State/Michigan rematch in '06.

[bigdaddyhawg]

I want to see the two best teams play for it all. Period.

A playoff that the Big1, Pac12, and Big Minus agree to will NOT provide this.

It will be purposely designed to exclude as many SEC participants as possible as the article in the beginning of the thread pointed out.

If you think that is better than watching 1 and 2 battle it out, you are daft.

I could be wrong on this, but I simply do not see Mike Slive and the SEC knuckling under to any BS from the Big 10/Pac 10 whiney girls.

That's why I keep saying this playoff thing could still blow up very quickly.

Somebody is going to have to give, and if neither budges there won't be an agreement.

[online-with-swine]

My only concerns with a four team playoff is

1: The amount of travel involved.  If the the Hogs get in then the fans would travel to Atlanta for the SEC championship game, away for a neutral first round game and the away again for another neutral BCS championship game.

2.  How are they going to pick the 4 teams?  For it to have any semblance of being a true mini playoff, they should pick the top 4 teams regardless of them winning conference championship.  If they force that rule then we have a worse system then we have now and might as well go back to simple conference bowl affiliations.

[rljjr]

Really?  Even if those 8 teams are the 6 current bcs league champs, and the 2 highest ranked non bcs league champs? 

So Notre Dame and Boise St. (Not that Notre Dame would ever EARN being number 7 or 8, but you guys know how that love fest works)

[wc550]

The playoff should only be the top 4 teams.  Someone is always going to be butthurt, but anyone ranked lower than 4 doesn't have nor deserve a shot at the title.  Whether SOS favors the others or not doesn't really matter.  Win your games and no one can get in your way.  You control your own destiny every year.

[wc550]

Also, Slive won't sign up for it being just conference or division winners.  No commissioner should.  If we are going to do this, we can't limit ourselves to who can play.

[NaturalStateReb]

The playoff should only be the top 4 teams.  Someone is always going to be butthurt, but anyone ranked lower than 4 doesn't have nor deserve a shot at the title.  Whether SOS favors the others or not doesn't really matter.  Win your games and no one can get in your way.  You control your own destiny every year.

It's a question of determining who those 4 teams are.  Delaney says they have to be divisional champions.  Most of us would agree that Bama was one of the top 4 teams last year, but wouldn't make the cut in Delaney's system.

[jbcarol]

Expect 'that team' - a k a Alabama - to be ready for Michigan

Michigan coach Brady Hoke would like to have a word with Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delany.

The word is, "Shaddup!"

Delany can take veiled shots at the Alabama football team and not have to suffer the consequences. It's Hoke who has to walk his football team into the teeth of the Crimson Tide come Sept. 1 in the Cowboys Classic in Arlington, Texas.

The last thing you want to do is give the defending national champs an intangible, psychological edge, the kind Delany just delivered with an ill-conceived interview that man­aged to call them out without call­ing them by name.

Alabama can go ahead and take down those "Never Again" posters.

The Crimson Tide has been handed a new motivational slogan.

"That Team."

[oldbear]

I have no problem with a four team playoff that gives preference to conference champions.  So long as that conference champ is in the BCS top 6.  If there are only 2 or 3 conference champs in the top 6, then you allow the highest ranked non-conference champ.  This doesn't give any conference preference.  If you want to say that any independent team that is in the top 6 is treated just like a conference champion to appease Notre Dame, then so be it. 

Last year's result would have been exactly the same as it was.

1   LSU   1.0000   1   1   2875   1.0000   1   1475   1.0000   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1.000
2   Alabama   .9419   2   2   2723   .9471   2   1399   .9485   3   3   3   3   3   2   2   .930
3   Oklahoma State   .9333   3   3   2654   .9231   3   1367   .9268   2   2   2   2   2   3   3   .950
4   Stanford   .8476   4   4   2504   .8710   4   1286   .8719   5   4   4   5   8   10   7   .800
5   Oregon   .7901   9   5   2372   .8250   5   1232   .8353   8   12   5   8   10   9   6   .710
6   Arkansas   .7687   8   7   2163   .7523   7   1112   .7539   5   7   8   12   5   4   4   .800

[jbcarol]

Herbstreit on Delany comments,'It should come down to the best teams. It doesn't matter what conference you're from nor winning a conference.'

Herbstreit on BCS Top 4 playoff,'Let the players and fans see the best teams play- regardless of where they're from.'

[jbcarol]

Bruce Feldman (@BFeldmanCBS) on Delany comments on 2012 BCS NC,'He's got a knack for that. He can't help himself. He likes to tweak people.'

Feldman,'Delany is trying to twist it where it'll work it out for him. This is not the first time that people's egos get in the way.'

[hogsanity]

I could be wrong on this, but I simply do not see Mike Slive and the SEC knuckling under to any BS from the Big 10/Pac 10 whiney girls.

That's why I keep saying this playoff thing could still blow up very quickly.

Somebody is going to have to give, and if neither budges there won't be an agreement.

Problem is, if it goes to a vote of all 120 or so FBS presidents, it could get passed without one vote from the SEC.  I still say the sudden push for a playoff, and all the restrictions that keep getting thrown in, is to try to limit the SEC.  So, if that is true, the 106 college presidents not in the sec could pass whatever they want.

[Inhogswetrust]

al.com: Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany takes apparent shot at Alabama (reader comments; priceless)

I bet that is already posted in the Bama locker room and Weight room!

[Inhogswetrust]

Bruce Feldman (@BFeldmanCBS) on Delany comments on 2012 BCS NC,'He's got a knack for that. He can't help himself. He likes to tweak people.'

Feldman,'Delany is trying to twist it where it'll work it out for him. This is not the first time that people's egos get in the way.'

Actually I have no problem with Delaney saying what he said. It is his job to support and market the conference he is the commisioner of. That doesn't mean he was correct in WHAT he said because he wasn't. If he were my commisioner I would want him to say things like that.

[Inhogswetrust]

Nick Saban fired away -- or possibly "back" -- at "some of these people in these leagues" who out of "self-preservation purposes" have proposed limiting the coming playoff to conference champions only. And does Saban think such a plan would "accomplish what we set out to accomplish" in the overhaul of the BCS?

"Hell no," he said. Your move, Mr. Delany.

"Self preservation purposes" are part of a Commisioners job.

[Inhogswetrust]

Expect 'that team' - a k a Alabama - to be ready for Michigan

Yep. Thus my posted in Bama's facilities post......................

[bigdaddyhawg]

Problem is, if it goes to a vote of all 120 or so FBS presidents, it could get passed without one vote from the SEC.  I still say the sudden push for a playoff, and all the restrictions that keep getting thrown in, is to try to limit the SEC.  So, if that is true, the 106 college presidents not in the sec could pass whatever they want.

I don't see this being something that will be decided by a vote of the university presidents.  The initial decision was made by the reps of the conferences, why wouldn't the next?

And I don't think it will be everyone vs. the SEC.  The SEC may have some support on our side, and I expect it does.  There are lots of folks that, just like us, resent how the Big 10 thinks it is somehow better than everyone else, and also resent how the Big 10/Pac12 always considers the Rose Bowl a priority over everything else in CFB.

Also, every school in the BCS knows the SEC brings the TV sets to bear, and they know because of that the SEC is buttering a lot of biscuits in this deal.

Can you imagine ESPN or any network going along with a playoff deal that didn't include the SEC?

If the ACC sides with us, there would be two pretty powerful blocks facing off in this deal.

I just think it's going to get very ugly before it is resolved, and I hope Mike Slive has the balls to stand strong.

[hogsanity]

I don't see this being something that will be decided by a vote of the university presidents.  The initial decision was made by the reps of the conferences, why wouldn't the next?

And I don't think it will be everyone vs. the SEC.  The SEC may have some support on our side, and I expect it does.  There are lots of folks that, just like us, resent how the Big 10 thinks it is somehow better than everyone else, and also resent how the Big 10/Pac12 always considers the Rose Bowl a priority over everything else in CFB.

Also, every school in the BCS knows the SEC brings the TV sets to bear, and they know because of that the SEC is buttering a lot of biscuits in this deal.

Can you imagine ESPN or any network going along with a playoff deal that didn't include the SEC?

If the ACC sides with us, there would be two pretty powerful blocks facing off in this deal.

I just think it's going to get very ugly before it is resolved, and I hope Mike Slive has the balls to stand strong.

It hought I had read where any change to a playoff would have to go through the college presidents, could have been wrong on that.

I am not saying they want to get rid of the SEC, they are not stupid.  They just want to limit the SEC to one team, that is why the sudden push for a conf winners, or div winners only restriction on playoff teams, when and if it happens. 

[online-with-swine]

How about this?  Let's invite 6 teams to the SEC to make 20.  Not piddly teams but big dogs like USC, Texas, OSU, Michigan, Oklahoma and maybe PSU.  Break up into quads with the winner of each quad going to a 4 team playoff.  But before doing that withdraw from the NCAA and start paying athletes a stipend in addition to their tuition.....maybe another 30-40 thousand.

The top recruits in the country will flock to  the new SEC and shun the others.  We would be a true super conference.  Imagine the bank networks will pay to show that.

[NaturalStateReb]

How about this?  Let's invite 6 teams to the SEC to make 20.  Not piddly teams but big dogs like USC, Texas, OSU, Michigan, Oklahoma and maybe PSU.  Break up into quads with the winner of each quad going to a 4 team playoff.  But before doing that withdraw from the NCAA and start paying athletes a stipend in addition to their tuition.....maybe another 30-40 thousand.

The top recruits in the country will flock to  the new SEC and shun the others.  We would be a true super conference.  Imagine the bank networks will pay to show that.

While I don't foresee this happenning, I can foresee the day when the football playing conferences walk away from the NCAA.  They'll control all of the college football playoff money; it won't be long until they'll realize that they can bascially control all of the basketball playoff money if they want to. 

It won't be Wild West, there'll still be some type of enforcement and lobbying mechanism, but it just won't be the NCAA.  Maybe the time for the idea has finally come.  It's hard to imagine that a single organization can adequately address the needs of Alabama and Hendrix.  Having organizations focused more on similar school/program sizes at this point probably makes more sense.

[bigdaddyhawg]

It hought I had read where any change to a playoff would have to go through the college presidents, could have been wrong on that.

I am not saying they want to get rid of the SEC, they are not stupid.  They just want to limit the SEC to one team, that is why the sudden push for a conf winners, or div winners only restriction on playoff teams, when and if it happens. 

No, I know you weren't saying they want to get rid of the SEC.  What I was talking about is the leverage the SEC has if they refused to be part of a bastardized playoff system that was rigged against us.

And the 120 presidents may have to have the final vote, but, trust me, whatever this committee presents them they are going to stamp it passed.

[hogsanity]

No, I know you weren't saying they want to get rid of the SEC.  What I was talking about is the leverage the SEC has if they refused to be part of a bastardized playoff system that was rigged against us.

And the 120 presidents may have to have the final vote, but, trust me, whatever this committee presents them they are going to stamp it passed.

The problem the SEC faces is knowing how hard to push things.  I don't think they can allow any playoff system that puts limits on teams based on only taking conf champs or div champs.  Even in a 8 team playoff that means you will not get the best 8 teams.  Extrapolate it out to 16 and the pool gets even more diluted under those rules.

[bigdaddyhawg]

Even in a 8 team playoff that means you will not get the best 8 teams.

Maybe, but with that system you are surely going to make sure the best 4-5 teams are in there, and that's everyone that would have a reasonable chance at winning a NC anyway.

[jbcarol]

If it goes to four teams, I think everyone in the SEC would be for that. Only taking conference champs would hurt our league.

-- Mark Richt on Paul Finebaum's show

[hogsanity]

Maybe, but with that system you are surely going to make sure the best 4-5 teams are in there, and that's everyone that would have a reasonable chance at winning a NC anyway.

Really?  Under a conf champs or even div champs only set up, Bama would not have made it last year.  Are you saying they were not really one of the best 4 or 5 teams? 

[bigdaddyhawg]

Really?  Under a conf champs or even div champs only set up, Bama would not have made it last year.  Are you saying they were not really one of the best 4 or 5 teams? 

Yeah, my comment was based on the assumption that some kind of system like they currently use, computers, polls, would be used to select those 8 teams.