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Author Topic: Annual conference expansion talks heat up - Big 12, SEC adding teams?  (Read 138739 times)

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WizardofhOgZ

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And now Longhorn/Big 12 mouthpiece Chip Brown joins the chorus.

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1363940
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online-with-swine

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I can understand the disdain that FSU, VTech and Clemson for the may have towards the rest of the ACC.  The ACC, like the Big Least, is geared more towards basketball to the detriment of the football powers.  Ideally, a conference should foster growth in all sports not just one.  The recent additions to the ACC did nothing to help those football schools out.  The article brought up a great point about FSU's home football schedule.  That schedule would kill any athletic department budget with apathy.  Factor the potential strength of schedule qualifier for intro into BCS final four and FSU, Clemson and VTech have every reason to jump ship.
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NaturalStateReb

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I can understand the disdain that FSU, VTech and Clemson for the may have towards the rest of the ACC.  The ACC, like the Big Least, is geared more towards basketball to the detriment of the football powers.  Ideally, a conference should foster growth in all sports not just one.  The recent additions to the ACC did nothing to help those football schools out.  The article brought up a great point about FSU's home football schedule.  That schedule would kill any athletic department budget with apathy.  Factor the potential strength of schedule qualifier for intro into BCS final four and FSU, Clemson and VTech have every reason to jump ship.

The Chipster left out that it also includes Florida and Clemson at home.  Always gotta fact check the Chipster.
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online-with-swine

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The Chipster left out that it also includes Florida and Clemson at home.  Always gotta fact check the Chipster.

How convenient of him to do that.
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Murr

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I can understand the disdain that FSU, VTech and Clemson for the may have towards the rest of the ACC.  The ACC, like the Big Least, is geared more towards basketball to the detriment of the football powers.  Ideally, a conference should foster growth in all sports not just one.  The recent additions to the ACC did nothing to help those football schools out.  The article brought up a great point about FSU's home football schedule.  That schedule would kill any athletic department budget with apathy.  Factor the potential strength of schedule qualifier for intro into BCS final four and FSU, Clemson and VTech have every reason to jump ship.

The ACC schools won't jump to any conference until they figure out exactly how far behind they will fall behind their neighbors (SEC, Big12, B!G) when the payouts to the 4 team playoffs are divided.  Under Delany's plan, only one ACC team made the cut for "big boy $$$" during the past 10 years.
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Murr

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http://www.mrsec.com/2012/05/major-conference-realignment-definitelymaybepossibly-on-the-way/

Mr. SEC gives a nice summary of where realignment info is coming from and even has a long discussion about the smoke that has been coming from @thedudeofwv.  ďThe dudeĒ has been writing off and on on ACC targets since January.

http://www.eerinsider.com/2012-articles/january/big-12-to-target-acc.html

These two he states Clemson and FSU are seriously considering the jump:
http://www.eerinsider.com/2012-articles/january/more-on-possible-big-12-expansion.html
http://www.eerinsider.com/2012-articles/january/big-12-expansion-update.html

Also, FSU has publicly stated they support the ACC, (weíve heard that before :-):
http://www.mrsec.com/2012/05/fsu-a-d-spetman-guns-down-big-12-rumors/

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texas tush hog

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Until the SEC closes the door on them, Clemson and Florida State are going nowhere, take that to the bank. West Virginia was rejected by the SEC in no uncertain terms because of their alcohol sales stance. Then and only then did they entertain overtures from the Big XII. As long as there is the remotest chance the SEC would accept them, Clemson and FSU are sitting pat. The only chance that would change would be if Maryland and one of the Virginia or North Carolina schools were to fill the two remaining slots for the SEC. In that case the scenario changes, but the odds are that FSU and Clemson wind up in the SEC, not the Big XII. This is more teasip fantasy.But let the incomparable Chip Brown spew his Deloss Dodds BS.
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online-with-swine

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I get the feeling Mr Sec thinks that the SEC isn't really going to do much at this time.  Which, honestly, is surprising to me.  A 14 team league is difficult to schedule for when it comes to football, unless we go to a 9 game conference schedule.  Otherwise, a jump to 16 teams is almost a must.

He makes some good points about us not raiding the ACC.  They are really our only ally among the other conferences.  So, why would we go after FSU, VTech, NCstate or any of the other schools.  If we do end up jumping to 16, then maybe we should look closely at Rutgers (who helped arranged the Rutgers game btw) or a school or 2 to the west of Arkansas.
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online-with-swine

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Until the SEC closes the door on them, Clemson and Florida State are going nowhere, take that to the bank. West Virginia was rejected by the SEC in no uncertain terms because of their alcohol sales stance. Then and only then did they entertain overtures from the Big XII. As long as there is the remotest chance the SEC would accept them, Clemson and FSU are sitting pat. The only chance that would change would be if Maryland and one of the Virginia or North Carolina schools were to fill the two remaining slots for the SEC. In that case the scenario changes, but the odds are that FSU and Clemson wind up in the SEC, not the Big XII. This is more teasip fantasy.But let the incomparable Chip Brown spew his Deloss Dodds BS.

The more I think about it the more I'm inclined to think that we don't grab an ACC school.  As much as I want it to happen, I just have a hard time seeing Slive raid his buddy's conference for a couple of schools.  The only way I see this happen is if the ACC has someone already lined up to replace them.
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I don't think Oklahoma moves without Oklahoma State.  That being said I wouldn't mind bringing OU and OSU into the West and Move Alabama and Auburn to the East and bring Missouri back to it's natural location in the West. You would have

West                 East
Arkansas            Florida
LSU                  Georgia
Miss St              Vanderbilt
Missouri             Tennessee
Ole Miss             Kentucky
OU                    USC
OSU                  Alabama
Texas A&M         Auburn

Regardless I think the next move when we see one will bring in 2 to the same division, because you then can move Missouri back to the west in either scenario.  2 into the west would move Auburn and Alabama over or two into the East bumps Missouri out and into the west.  Missouri being placed into the East seems to be a stopgap so that's why I think we'll see an addition sooner rather than later.  Two east teams make sense but I wouldn't throw out the idea that two western teams may actually get the nod.  Especially with the Big 12-2-2+2 (whatever it is now) looking like a test run this fall to see if it survives.  I just can't see them keeping up if we go to the 16 super conferences that people are coming up with.  A couple of Big 12 teams might avoid future disaster and abandon ship in a year or two.

Hell's bells, why don't we add 86 more teams and make it an even hundred. Just think of all the revenue! Geez.

I'm with city hog, adding aTm and mizzou made me wanna puke as well.
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Murr

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http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=159&f=4582&t=8982076&p=1

From the WVU scout board poster, MHver3ís latests.  His posts have been fairly accurate and very detailed.  A couple of weeks ago, he spilt the beans on a lot of stuff that resulted in a Chip Brown Orangeblood.com/UT denial only to be included in Chipís latest piece.  Here are MHver3ís points through page 5:

Quote
As the FSU rumors and whispers continue to spread faster than the undead plague in a Romero film we get a HUGE breakthrough this morning with the other fair lass we have been courting.

On the advice of Clemson's Athletic Advisory Committee,  Dr Terry Phillips has requested the ACC for a detailed outline of everything they would need to do if they ever decided to exit the conference.

When this hits the media Phillips will say that they are just reviewing the landscape and want to have that information just to see how it compares with other conferences.

would've posted this earlier but I have been in work-related meetings forever...

btw-Stanford is making a huge push for Luck. Double the money.
He won't comment because WVU is telling him to say that while they renegotiate to keep him.

Quote
Baylorbears11 wrote: When would this be hitting the news cycle exactly?
no clue.  But  I'm sure people on Clemson's end can't keep this a secret for long
and now I'm going to break the hearts of a few people here...Jurich (Líville) has privately given the Big East their notice. BE brass want it kept under wraps for a bit due to concern of conference falling apart
They are in
Clemson next?

Just because UL is in doesn't mean they will be announced as 11...

Just to clarify: Louisville has not been given an official offer from the B12 but they are being told they will be invited by July.
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dooley

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And now Longhorn/Big 12 mouthpiece Chip Brown joins the chorus.

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1363940

Since it came from Chip Brown you can assume two things:  (1) It's spin by UT and (2) it's not true.
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dooley

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I can understand the disdain that FSU, VTech and Clemson for the may have towards the rest of the ACC.  The ACC, like the Big Least, is geared more towards basketball to the detriment of the football powers.  Ideally, a conference should foster growth in all sports not just one.  The recent additions to the ACC did nothing to help those football schools out.  The article brought up a great point about FSU's home football schedule.  That schedule would kill any athletic department budget with apathy.  Factor the potential strength of schedule qualifier for intro into BCS final four and FSU, Clemson and VTech have every reason to jump ship.

I don't think any of those schools have disdain for the ACC.  VT is very happy there and likes the Olympic sports they emphasize.  Clemson has done well and fits in with the Carolinas and Virginia group.  FSU is the odd duck, but they picked the ACC in the 90's and haven't really had a reason to leave.  I mean, what's not to like about the ACC?  It's not the FUBAR that the Big XII has been by any stretch of the imagination.
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dooley

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Until the SEC closes the door on them, Clemson and Florida State are going nowhere, take that to the bank. West Virginia was rejected by the SEC in no uncertain terms because of their alcohol sales stance. Then and only then did they entertain overtures from the Big XII. As long as there is the remotest chance the SEC would accept them, Clemson and FSU are sitting pat. The only chance that would change would be if Maryland and one of the Virginia or North Carolina schools were to fill the two remaining slots for the SEC. In that case the scenario changes, but the odds are that FSU and Clemson wind up in the SEC, not the Big XII. This is more teasip fantasy.But let the incomparable Chip Brown spew his Deloss Dodds BS.

UT doesn't like to leave the state of Texas.  With the addition of WV they really need some Eastern teams to join so they don't have to go to Morgantown ever other year.  They'd much rather travel to Tallahassee or Clemson.  If they can swing a division with Iowa State, Kansas, K State, WV, and two others, that means they don't have to leave Texas but twice a year at most.  Yes, it's all about Texas.
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texas tush hog

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The more I think about it the more I'm inclined to think that we don't grab an ACC school.  As much as I want it to happen, I just have a hard time seeing Slive raid his buddy's conference for a couple of schools.  The only way I see this happen is if the ACC has someone already lined up to replace them.


Bingo. You're getting it.
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online-with-swine

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Bingo. You're getting it.

So how do you think this all shakes out?  Clemson and FSU into SEC and who to replace them in the ACC?

If the ACC willingly lets FSU and Clemson leave then they would seem to have designs on a basketball powerhouse conference.  Cuse and Pitt are already bolting from the Big Least so could a Uconn or Rutgers follow suit?  They seem be good choices to continue opening up the northeast market.  Maybe they surprise everyone and get ND to agree to the ACC.
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Murr

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So how do you think this all shakes out?  Clemson and FSU into SEC and who to replace them in the ACC?

If the ACC willingly lets FSU and Clemson leave then they would seem to have designs on a basketball powerhouse conference.  Cuse and Pitt are already bolting from the Big Least so could a Uconn or Rutgers follow suit?  They seem be good choices to continue opening up the northeast market.  Maybe they surprise everyone and get ND to agree to the ACC.
With Pitt suing the Big East and L'ville supposedly asking for the withdrawl process paperwork and Boise St. and SDST keeping channels open with the MWC, the Big East might fail to exist as a football conference soon.  I would not be surprised to see the basketball schools separate from the football schools.

Today from MHver3 on WVU scout board:
Quote
Posted: Today 10:20 AM

Terps?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

just wanted to give you guys an update on some info I got late last night.
Maryland wants in if Clemson or FSU or both leave.
They have contacted us-not the other way around.
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Murr

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Here is the fire coming from FSU:
http://floridastate.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1364755

Exerts:
Quote
In an exclusive interview with Warchant.com, Florida State Board of Trustees Chairman Andy Haggard blasted the agreement that will net each ACC school approximately $17 million per year through 2026-27.

"It continues the perception that the ACC favors the North Carolina schools," noted Haggard.

"How do you not look into that option," asked Haggard. "On behalf of the Board of Trustees I can say that unanimously we would be in favor of seeing what the Big 12 might have to offer. We have to do what is in Florida State's best interest."

"With the SEC making the kind of money it does it's time to act," said Haggard. "You can't sit back and be content in the ACC. This is a different time financially. This isn't 10-15 years ago when money was rolling in."

Of the few who still support FSU staying in the ACC, most cite the number of well-regarded academic institutions within the conference. However, Haggard scoffed at the idea that the ACC somehow helps FSU's academic reputation.

"No FSU graduate puts on his resume or interviews for a job saying they are in the same conference as Duke and Virginia," he said. "Conference affiliation really has no impact on academics."

Haggard concluded that he will be speaking with FSU president Eric Barron and Athletic Director Randy Spetman about the best way to proceed in exploring options outside of the ACC.

« Last Edit: May 12, 2012, 04:35:22 pm by Murr »
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online-with-swine

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I guess things are starting to heat up b/t FSU and conference Bevo.  We all know that Chip Brown is nothing but a mouth piece for Texas.  Maybe he was writing the other day more to guage public interest from both sides and drum support of such a move for FSU.  If FSU does jump ship I would rather see them in the SEC than Big 12 though.
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Murr

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I guess things are starting to heat up b/t FSU and conference Bevo.  We all know that Chip Brown is nothing but a mouth piece for Texas.  Maybe he was writing the other day more to guage public interest from both sides and drum support of such a move for FSU.  If FSU does jump ship I would rather see them in the SEC than Big 12 though.
I wouldn't mind seeing FSU and VT joining the SEC.  The problem is Virginia Tech won't be the first team to make a move out of the ACC.  That will either be Clemson or FSU.  If one of them jumps, L'ville could round out the Big 12 to 12 teams, then they wait for options from the Big East and ACC (MD, Miami, GT, Pitt).  Market wise, the SEC would like to enter the states of VA and NC with media market DC.  Virginia Tech is this year's Texas A&M, no point going to 16 if you can't get a good #15.  What's left of the ACC can back fill with teams from the Big East.  I'm just not sure if NC State has the power to separate from UNC; in that case taking FSU or Maryland at 16 is fine.

I always thought that if Notre Dame was forced to join a conference, a depleted 12-team ACC might be their best option:
Division A: UNC, Duke, UVA, Wake Forest, GT, UConn
Division B: Notre Dame, Pitt, Syracuse, BC, Rutgers, Navy

Anyway, off to stock up on popcorn.
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Murr

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Add Jimbo Fisher to the pro-realignment discussion:
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-12/sports/os-mike-bianchi-florida-state-fisher-0513-20120511_1_acc-espn-fsu-coach-jimbo-fisher-acc-s-tv

Quote
"There have been no official talks, but I think you always have to look out there to see what's best for Florida State," Fisher said. "If that [jumping to the Big 12] is what's best for Florida State, then that's what we need to do."
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Murr

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Even better:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=159&f=4582&t=8986645&p=1

MHver3:
Quote
Posted: Today 5:36 PM

The first defection...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

may not be the school you guys think it is and may not be the B12 doing the honors on this one.

My source has just informed me(in the middle of my attempt at comedy in my Terps thread) that our contact with Clemson has informed the B12 that VT has started talking to the SEC.  Blacksburg can see the writing on the wall.

If they go to 15 I would assume 16 is just a matter of an announcement.
I also believe if the SEC does it the B1G will add at least 2
We may stay at 14 for a bit.
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AchieveHog

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The ACC just added Syracuse and Pittsburgh, I don't see anyone leaving.

They have

Fla State
Clemson
Virginia
North Carolina
NC State
Wake
Duke
Virginia Tech
Boston College
Maryland
Georgia Tech
Miami
Syracuse
Pittsburgh

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online-with-swine

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I would love to see VTech and FSU in the SEC.  Tech brings a new footprint and respectable football team while FSU brings the national clout.

If we can't one or the other of FSU and VTech then we may look towards the Maryland NCstate direction or even Clemson.

Clemson, NC state and Maryland are hard to rank in preference.  Maryland has more national prestige, mainly from basketball.  But NC state actually has bigger and better attendance figures for football.  Maryland ranks 51 in the country while NCs checks in at 32.  Clemson actually leads the ACC for football attendance but is still only 15th nationally, right above FSU at 16 and Vt at 28.

Not only does Maryland have lackluster fan support but I'm not sure if they will actually deliver the DC or Baltimore markets.  Both those cities are decidedly more pro towns than college.  Same theory applies to NCstate.  How much do they really pull within a state already divided b/t UNC and Duke?

Clemson becomes viable, IMO, only if FSU doesn't jump.  I don't see us taking 2 schools already in our geographic footprint.  Plus, I get this dirty Auburn feeling from them.

If any ACC school jumps to the SEC i can't see us being the aggressor given the friendship Slive has with the ACC's commish.

Who knows though.  Maybe we get surprised with Rutgers or Oklahoma.  Whatever happens it is fun to speculate.
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Murr

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I would love to see VTech and FSU in the SEC.  Tech brings a new footprint and respectable football team while FSU brings the national clout.

If we can't one or the other of FSU and VTech then we may look towards the Maryland NCstate direction or even Clemson.

Clemson, NC state and Maryland are hard to rank in preference.  Maryland has more national prestige, mainly from basketball.  But NC state actually has bigger and better attendance figures for football.  Maryland ranks 51 in the country while NCs checks in at 32.  Clemson actually leads the ACC for football attendance but is still only 15th nationally, right above FSU at 16 and Vt at 28.

Not only does Maryland have lackluster fan support but I'm not sure if they will actually deliver the DC or Baltimore markets.  Both those cities are decidedly more pro towns than college.  Same theory applies to NCstate.  How much do they really pull within a state already divided b/t UNC and Duke?

Clemson becomes viable, IMO, only if FSU doesn't jump.  I don't see us taking 2 schools already in our geographic footprint.  Plus, I get this dirty Auburn feeling from them.

If any ACC school jumps to the SEC i can't see us being the aggressor given the friendship Slive has with the ACC's commish.

Maryland delivers both the DC and Baltimore markets.  VT delivers DC.
Who knows though.  Maybe we get surprised with Rutgers or Oklahoma.  Whatever happens it is fun to speculate.
The SEC won't expand without VT, it's #16 that is a guess.  Big 12 and B1G teams are off limits (Grant of rights issue).  If VT jumps first, then the SEC has first dibs on the remaining ACC/Big East options.

I could see NC State borrowing the "national visibility" card A&M used last summer.

If VT is number 15, I imagine the checkdown list for 16 would be:
1. UNC
2 NC ST
3 MD
4 FSU
5 Clemson
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online-with-swine

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The SEC won't expand without VT, it's #16 that is a guess.  Big 12 and B1G teams are off limits (Grant of rights issue).  If VT jumps first, then the SEC has first dibs on the remaining ACC/Big East options.

I could see NC State borrowing the "national visibility" card A&M used last summer.

If VT is number 15, I imagine the checkdown list for 16 would be:
1. UNC
2 NC ST
3 MD
4 FSU
5 Clemson

I think prying UNC away from Duke would be next to impossible.  NC state could be more easily wrestled free from other 2.  What's troubling for NCState is the control that UNC supposedly has over them.  That may be the only way Maryland or FSU get the invite....politics.
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online-with-swine

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BTW, who is this MHver3 guy.  They all seem to hang on his every post as gospel.
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texas tush hog

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So how do you think this all shakes out?  Clemson and FSU into SEC and who to replace them in the ACC?

If the ACC willingly lets FSU and Clemson leave then they would seem to have designs on a basketball powerhouse conference.  Cuse and Pitt are already bolting from the Big Least so could a Uconn or Rutgers follow suit?  They seem be good choices to continue opening up the northeast market.  Maybe they surprise everyone and get ND to agree to the ACC.

If those two leave, they have already been replaced by those two you have mentioned, plus the ACC is already in a holding pattern with Cuse and Pitt. Anybody
who claims to know for certain in this thing other than Slive himself is full of it. The leaks coming out are meant to smoke out the leakers themselves. The people I know are scared to death to be exposed as a mole so when this deal comes down it will be swift and out of nowhere, kinda like Cuse and Pitt were. Slive is up to something but rest assured it is not what any of us will know.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2012, 10:36:56 am by texas tush hog »
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NWASooner

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The real question is whether the Big 12 would stand pat with just Florida State and Clemson.  They might also go after Miami and Georgia Tech/Virginia Tech.
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texas tush hog

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The real question is whether the Big 12 would stand pat with just Florida State and Clemson.  They might also go after Miami and Georgia Tech/Virginia Tech.

Nobody wants the Big XII as as a first choice, but as a last resort, ie West Virginia, although TCU jumped at their chance while WVA was a forced upon proposition. If Clemson and FSU have a choice it will be the SEC, not the Big XII.
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slowride

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All these recent developments make me wonder why we were in such a hurry to get Missouri and A&M.  FSU, Miami, Va Tech, and Clemson are each better options than either Missouri or the Aggies
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online-with-swine

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Big12 currently sits at 10 members.  Going to 12 adds the championship game while going to 14 brings nothing unless they are schools with big populations.  However, having 14 schools brings other issues with scheduling.  So I think 12 or 16 will be the stopping point for the Big12.

We are beyond the point of no return with 14 teams, esp, after we placed Mizzou in the east.  Really, who does something like that unless it is only temporary? 

Clemson and FSU bring a better name than NC state but don't add any real estate to our footprint.  So, I still think VT and one of the NC schools will be the primary target.  Whether FSU/Clemson or VTech/FSU or VT/UNCs bring more money has already been determined with the help of the tv execs and will dictate our next move.  What exactly it is, is the million dollar question.
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Murr

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BTW, who is this MHver3 guy.  They all seem to hang on his every post as gospel.
He's the WVU insider that has been posting some good info for a while now.
The latest from MrSEC

http://www.mrsec.com/2012/05/fsus-outgoing-top-trustee-makes-fsus-ad-the-acc-media-everywhere-and-yours-truly-look-bad/
Welcome to the dark side Mr. SEC
The real question is whether the Big 12 would stand pat with just Florida State and Clemson.  They might also go after Miami and Georgia Tech/Virginia Tech.
I've read Texas doesn't want to take more than two ACC schools at one time due to fear of getting sued for destroying a conference.  As we get farther into the summer, that might not be a problem as seen here:
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=44312
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Whatever they decide, there are a number of schools banging on the ACCís door, including Louisville, which might beat FSU to the Big 12, and UConn, desperate to escape the sinking ship that is the Big East.

Louisville, if you missed it, made clear their desire to move to a more stable conference earlier this week and specifically mentioned the ACC and the Big 12. And of course Notre Dame remains the biggest domino of them all.

Itís worth mentioning though, as long as this sort of thing is going on, that geography aside, Kansas would in many respects be a great fit for the ACC.
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NWASooner

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Haven't Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida always been the roadblock to FSU and/or Clemson?

Would they now change their minds?  I was always under the impression they never would and all voted as a block to keep the other two schools in the equation happy.
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Murr

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Haven't Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida always been the roadblock to FSU and/or Clemson?

Would they now change their minds?  I was always under the impression they never would and all voted as a block to keep the other two schools in the equation happy.
The only numbers I have seen related to SEC voting is from @bearlydoug from October 6, 2011:
http://gridironhistory.com/forums/index.php?topic=355.0
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Okay, I just spoke with my source (Direct ties to a coach at an SEC school) and he pretty much confirmed what I posted about yesterday (See THIS THREAD).

Here's the latest:

SEC AD Vote tallies (these are UNCONFIRMED numbers:
Florida State: 11-1 for acceptance.
Mizzou: 8-4 for acceptance.
West Virginia: 10-2 for acceptance.

The post states FSU's lone no vote was from Florida.
I belieeeeeve WVU's no votes from Vandy and S. Carolina, but can't remember where I heard that from.
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Murr

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All these recent developments make me wonder why we were in such a hurry to get Missouri and A&M.  FSU, Miami, Va Tech, and Clemson are each better options than either Missouri or the Aggies
Without A&M and Mizzou, the TV contracts don't get reopened.  That forced Big 12 expansion which, along with ACC expansion, put the Big East on life support. 

I think the Big East ceases to play college football after this season. All their schools are having thoughts that Mizzou, Kansas, K State and Iowa State had when the PAC-16 almost happened; "Maybe the Mountain West or Big East ain't so bad."  When those options are starring you in the face, it's time to find something better.

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Murr

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Final note for the day:
http://cemetery-hill.com/2012-articles/may/clemson-fsu-and-big-12-update.html
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No university president, AD or Board member is going to come out right now and say they're talking to another conference, even if that may very well be the case. These leaders simply can't do that. No school or conference wants the collusion or tampering tag, or the media circus that would certainly ensue (even more than is occurring now), so it's prudent for them to just stay quiet and appear content until a firm agreement is in place and all formalities have been completed.
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dooley

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Haven't Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida always been the roadblock to FSU and/or Clemson?

Would they now change their minds?  I was always under the impression they never would and all voted as a block to keep the other two schools in the equation happy.

Florida removed their objection to FSU a long time ago.
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NWASooner

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Florida removed their objection to FSU a long time ago.

Then why didn't the SEC go after FSU and Clemson instead of Missouri and A&M?

Florida State's regent openly mentioned the Big 12, which makes me think that's where they're going because he knows the SEC isn't an option.

FWIW, I think the SEC should tell UGA, USC, and Florida to shove it and take Florida State and Clemson.  That's a no brainer. 
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dooley

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Then why didn't the SEC go after FSU and Clemson instead of Missouri and A&M?

Florida State's regent openly mentioned the Big 12, which makes me think that's where they're going because he knows the SEC isn't an option.

FWIW, I think the SEC should tell UGA, USC, and Florida to shove it and take Florida State and Clemson.  That's a no brainer.

We've been over this before so you should already know the answer:  cable market.  FSU and Clemson don't add any new base population numbers.  They add nation ratings, but not cable market.  Mizzou and aTm add over 30M potential cable subscribers.  FSU and Clemson add 0.

Honestly, the SEC would probably prefer to have VA Tech, Maryland, and/or someone from NC.  They want the DC/VA/NC markets as VA and NC are two of the fastest growing states in the country.  If the SEC added VA/DC and NC, it would give the SEC a base population of around 100M.  This only works for cable, since the SEC already plays nationally.  If going for ratings, VA Tech and FSU would probably foot the bill.
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texas tush hog

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We've been over this before so you should already know the answer:  cable market.  FSU and Clemson don't add any new base population numbers.  They add nation ratings, but not cable market.  Mizzou and aTm add over 30M potential cable subscribers.  FSU and Clemson add 0.

Honestly, the SEC would probably prefer to have VA Tech, Maryland, and/or someone from NC.  They want the DC/VA/NC markets as VA and NC are two of the fastest growing states in the country.  If the SEC added VA/DC and NC, it would give the SEC a base population of around 100M.  This only works for cable, since the SEC already plays nationally.  If going for ratings, VA Tech and FSU would probably foot the bill.


Slive has pocket acceptance from all of his schools to negotiate what in his oppinion is in the best interests of the SEC. Because of the Ken Starr deal at Baylor over the A&M-Missouri exit he is keeping everything close to the vest sealing all leaks until the deals are done. Because of the cable tv footprint Maryland and the Virginia schools or North Carolina schools are the first order of business. As long as those are in play, he will wait. Once they are slammed shut Clemson and FSU are sitting on go. 16 is the magic number and that is where the SEC will eventually land. The ACC has their stingers out as well for the Big East refugees and Notre Dame. All of this is very complicated but once the first domino falls the others will in short order. The BiG is sitting back with Texas type arrogance and could get burned in the process as could the teasips if both overplay their hands.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Big12 currently sits at 10 members.  Going to 12 adds the championship game while going to 14 brings nothing unless they are schools with big populations.  However, having 14 schools brings other issues with scheduling.  So I think 12 or 16 will be the stopping point for the Big12.

We are beyond the point of no return with 14 teams, esp, after we placed Mizzou in the east.  Really, who does something like that unless it is only temporary? 

Clemson and FSU bring a better name than NC state but don't add any real estate to our footprint.  So, I still think VT and one of the NC schools will be the primary target.  Whether FSU/Clemson or VTech/FSU or VT/UNCs bring more money has already been determined with the help of the tv execs and will dictate our next move.  What exactly it is, is the million dollar question.

The Big 12's obvious goal is to scramble to get back to 12 teams but because they are already behind the power curve on this thing, I think they will have trouble ever reaching the magic 16 number. If they do, it will be by the addition of a number of lesser impressive schools. To me, in the long term, that conference will never be as strong as it once was and if their goal is to go to 16 it will be a significantly less strong conference in the future.

As for the SEC and expansion, Va Tech has to be a primary target. That would certainly add a good deal of Nielsen Share to the the SEC TV package. But as I recall the problem there before was that they wouldn't leave Virginia to fend for themselves.

Same thing for N. Carolina and NC State. One wouldn't come without the other.

That leaves Florida St and Clemson. Florida St is interesting in that while their football revenues as a program from ticket sales is well below SEC standards for large football schools, they carry a pretty significant Nielsen Share on a national basis (not just a regional player) when they play. If we are chasing TV sets, FSU would be a solid addition.

What do we get from adding Clemson? We already have S. Carolina, so again if we are chasing TV sets, what do we gain by adding Clemson aside from another good football program?
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online-with-swine

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The Big 12's obvious goal is to scramble to get back to 12 teams but because they are already behind the power curve on this thing, I think they will have trouble ever reaching the magic 16 number. If they do, it will be by the addition of a number of lesser impressive schools. To me, in the long term, that conference will never be as strong as it once was and if their goal is to go to 16 it will be a significantly less strong conference in the future.

As for the SEC and expansion, Va Tech has to be a primary target. That would certainly add a good deal of Nielsen Share to the the SEC TV package. But as I recall the problem there before was that they wouldn't leave Virginia to fend for themselves.

Same thing for N. Carolina and NC State. One wouldn't come without the other.

That leaves Florida St and Clemson. Florida St is interesting in that while their football revenues as a program from ticket sales is well below SEC standards for large football schools, they carry a pretty significant Nielsen Share on a national basis (not just a regional player) when they play. If we are chasing TV sets, FSU would be a solid addition.

What do we get from adding Clemson? We already have S. Carolina, so again if we are chasing TV sets, what do we gain by adding Clemson aside from another good football program?

I think you are spot on.  VTech brings a national broadcast audience and a new footprint with big population for SEC network.  All the other choices only one or the other.  FSU appeals national but adds no footprint.  NCst brings new footprint but no real national appeal.  Same with Maryland. 

With taking Mizzou and AM it looks like Slive is planning for a SEC network.  In that case, footprint is bigger which makes NCst or Maryland more important than FSU and especially Clemson.
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Slive has pocket acceptance from all of his schools to negotiate what in his opinion is in the best interests of the SEC. Because of the Ken Starr deal at Baylor over the A&M-Missouri exit he is keeping everything close to the vest sealing all leaks until the deals are done. Because of the cable tv footprint Maryland and the Virginia schools or North Carolina schools are the first order of business. As long as those are in play, he will wait. Once they are slammed shut Clemson and FSU are sitting on go. 16 is the magic number and that is where the SEC will eventually land. The ACC has their stingers out as well for the Big East refugees and Notre Dame. All of this is very complicated but once the first domino falls the others will in short order. The BiG is sitting back with Texas type arrogance and could get burned in the process as could the teasips if both overplay their hands.

If Clemson and FSU ore the back ups, then he needs to already have schools 15 and 16 in the fold b/c they (Clemson and FSU) are playing footsie with the Big12.

Or they may see the writing on the wall and are jumping b/f they get stuck in a dieing football league like West Virginia.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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I think you are spot on.  VTech brings a national broadcast audience and a new footprint with big population for SEC network.  All the other choices only one or the other.  FSU appeals national but adds no footprint.  NCst brings new footprint but no real national appeal.  Same with Maryland. 

With taking Mizzou and AM it looks like Slive is planning for a SEC network.  In that case, footprint is bigger which makes NCst or Maryland more important than FSU and especially Clemson.

Yeah, but on the other hand, the SEC could choose to add Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. Now what would this do for the SEC? Well, OSU carries about the same Nielsen Share as Missouri when they play. So, equal footing with Missouri and with OSU's recent upswing in national prominence along with a good basketball and baseball program (though neither have been as good lately as they have been in the past), they do bring something of value to the table.

OU, as much as many hate them, brings the largest Nielsen Share footprint on a national basis of any of the teams being considered. For some reason, when they play, a good portion of the nation seems to tune in, so from the standpoint of TV value, they are more significant than any of the existing SEC teams. Unbelievable I know, but true. On top of that they rank as being the #10 most valuable football program in the country according to Forbes so their revenues are solid.

Problem is, like the Virgina schools and the N. Carolina schools, one is not coming without the other. I'd love to take OU and not OSU, but that apparently isn't going to happen. Package deal.

But, if the SEC took these two it fill out the league to 16, it would add two good teams with great facilities, revenues and national popularity, would expand the West and East to 8 teams each and in all likelihood, would enable all annual rivalry games to remain in place, though it would likely call for Missouri being moved back to the West while Alabama and Auburn moved to the East.

The SEC would then look like this:

West                                East
Arkansas                           Alabama
Missouri                            Auburn
Texas A&M                        Kentucky
Oklahoma                          Tennessee
Okla State                         Florida
LSU                                  Georgia
Ole Miss                            Vanderbilt
Miss State                         S. Carolina

I could go along with that.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 09:37:48 am by MuskogeeHogFan »
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online-with-swine

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I could go with that as well.  Regionally for us it would be ideal for adding close proximity rivals.  Biggest of all it screws over Bevo.  However, how does the grant of rights play into that scenerio?  If it has only been agreed to verbally then bolting to the SEC would be no problem.  If it has been signed then getting out is almost impossible for the near future.  But, all things are negotiable.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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I could go with that as well.  Regionally for us it would be ideal for adding close proximity rivals.  Biggest of all it screws over Bevo.  However, how does the grant of rights play into that scenerio?  If it has only been agreed to verbally then bolting to the SEC would be no problem.  If it has been signed then getting out is almost impossible for the near future.  But, all things are negotiable.

How many of those games, given that proposed SEC West, could everyone afford to travel to? And for that matter, the same question exists for the SEC East. That provides for one crossover game and allows each team to schedule 2 rent-a-wins and 2 more serious OOC games each year.
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online-with-swine

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How many of those games, given that proposed SEC West, could everyone afford to travel to? And for that matter, the same question exists for the SEC East. That provides for one crossover game and allows each team to schedule 2 rent-a-wins and 2 more serious OOC games each year.

OU and OSU would end up being our closest SEC schools and both would be within driving distance of the UA.  It would probably require an overnight stay depending on the time of the game but still less of a trip than LSU or Ole Miss as it currently stands.
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