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Author Topic: Annual conference expansion talks heat up - Big 12, SEC adding teams?  (Read 144499 times)

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WizardofhOgZ

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There is a lot of smoke about Clemson and FSU moving to the Big 12.  Could that lead to Virginia Tech and N. Carolina State joining the SEC?

http://mrsec.com/2012/05/here-we-go-again-as-summer-starts-realignment-chat-heats-up/
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Pork Twain

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There is a lot of smoke about Clemson and FSU moving to the Big 12.  Could that lead to Virginia Tech and N. Carolina State joining the SEC?

http://mrsec.com/2012/05/here-we-go-again-as-summer-starts-realignment-chat-heats-up/
This goes on to list his five reasons why he thinks these rumors are crap.  Sounds more like wishful thinking and off-season rumors are heating up.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 10:05:40 am by BeoPig™ »
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Ty Webb240

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It's that time of year again. 

NC State (9.6 million) and Virginia (8.1 million) would add two more big markets with good athletic programs, NC State more so on the bball side and VT for football.  Both also add very good States for recruiting. 

Those two would be two of the better options. 

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Hawghiggs

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 NC state is basically ran by UNC. So they ain't coming. VaTech just switched conferences not 10 years ago and had to have Virginia to help them. So they ain't coming. But if the SEC just has to add another program. Then take a hard look at ECU. They average about 55k for football and have a solid baseball program. The biggest knocks on them is the fact that they aren't a flagship program and they have never been a BCS program. But they do add some solid markets and they are the best football program in North Carolina.
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WizardofhOgZ

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Apparently, this is the source of the recent revival of the rumor mill:

http://www.eerinsider.com/2012-articles/may/are-clemson-a-fsu-leaving-the-acc.html
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online-with-swine

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Interesting rumors to say the least.  I can't wait for this to just go ahead and happen.  It's inevitable that the SEC will go to 16.  So, we might as well go ahead and take our picks now before the Big 12 or B1G.  I hope V Tech and NC State or maybe even Maryland.
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hawgfan80

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The SEC will definitely add teams. ECU will not be one of them.
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Ty Webb240

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Can't fathom a school of ECU's stature gets an invite to best conference in the land, especially when you consider the quality of the most recent additions (Mizzou and A&M) and prior to that (Arkansas and South Carolina). 

I would imagine ECU's chance would be less than 1%.
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DEVIL DOG HOG

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If Clemson and FSU leave the ACC it will be to join the SEC.
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redeye

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I don't know why so many people keep talking about SEC expansion, when Slive and the Presidents have made it very clear that they don't plan on any further expansions anytime soon. People think they want to expand, but I don't think they do. They didn't even want to expand to 14 teams, but A&M was too good to pass on, due to adding a sizable share of the Texas market.
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Hawghiggs

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Can't fathom a school of ECU's stature gets an invite to best conference in the land, especially when you consider the quality of the most recent additions (Mizzou and A&M) and prior to that (Arkansas and South Carolina). 

I would imagine ECU's chance would be less than 1%.
The point wasn't ECU to the SEC. The point was that if the SEC wants in the state of North Carolina. Then they would have to select ECU because UNC and NCst are tied at the hip.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 06:25:24 am by Hawghiggs »
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cityhog

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Adding tamu and mizzou to the SEC still makes me puke in my mouth. Especially tamu. God help us letting the Texas ego into the group.
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Murr

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Interesting rumors to say the least.  I can't wait for this to just go ahead and happen.  It's inevitable that the SEC will go to 16.  So, we might as well go ahead and take our picks now before the Big 12 or B1G.  I hope V Tech and NC State or maybe even Maryland.
I agree.  I see FSU and Clemson trying one last time to get into the SEC.  When that fails, they go to the Big 12.  This gives the green light for the rest of the ACC teams to explore options; VT comes in at 15 and then Slive tries to grab NC State, if they can't separate, then AAU member Maryland.

A lot of smoke has been coming from the WVU scout boards for months, now other boards are picking it up.  Whatever the outcome, I just hope it all ends this summer.

Summer 2010: PAC-16 settles on 12 and the BIG Ten gets a championship game.
Summer 2011: SEC and ACC go to 14, Big 12 finally stabilizes.
Summer 2012: Open Season on the ACC?

Virginia Tech is available if the ACC loses other teams first.  When the A&M rumors started last summer, VPI's AD, i believe, said they are happy in the ACC, but if the conference lost members, they would re-evaluate the sitsuation and do what's best for VPI.  The guy also stated that he thought Missouri would be a likely member to join A&M.
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Murr

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I don't know why so many people keep talking about SEC expansion, when Slive and the Presidents have made it very clear that they don't plan on any further expansions anytime soon. People think they want to expand, but I don't think they do. They didn't even want to expand to 14 teams, but A&M was too good to pass on, due to adding a sizable share of the Texas market.
Presidents and Slive know they can not say those things publicly due to lawsuits that would come from the other conference.  This game has been going on for a while.  The SEC had a very long drawn out process that they made aTm and Mizzou go through to avoid these lawsuits.  The ACC grabbed Syracuse and Pitt over night.

Also, the Vanderbilt AD or president said he expected the SEC to get to 16 teams sooner rather than later.  The 2012 football season has been setup to run for just one year.  Why haven't we heard anything about the long term plans yet? 

The sizable Texas and Missouri markets add alot of cable subscribers for the SEC channel that is rumored to compete with the B1G Network.
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Murr

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Can't fathom a school of ECU's stature gets an invite to best conference in the land, especially when you consider the quality of the most recent additions (Mizzou and A&M) and prior to that (Arkansas and South Carolina). 

I would imagine ECU's chance would be less than 1%.

That would mean at least the following schools said no:
NC State
UNC
Duke
Maryland
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NaturalStateReb

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I agree.  I see FSU and Clemson trying one last time to get into the SEC.  When that fails, they go to the Big 12.  This gives the green light for the rest of the ACC teams to explore options; VT comes in at 15 and then Slive tries to grab NC State, if they can't separate, then AAU member Maryland.

A lot of smoke has been coming from the WVU scout boards for months, now other boards are picking it up.  Whatever the outcome, I just hope it all ends this summer.

Summer 2010: PAC-16 settles on 12 and the BIG Ten gets a championship game.
Summer 2011: SEC and ACC go to 14, Big 12 finally stabilizes.
Summer 2012: Open Season on the ACC?

Virginia Tech is available if the ACC loses other teams first.  When the A&M rumors started last summer, VPI's AD, i believe, said they are happy in the ACC, but if the conference lost members, they would re-evaluate the sitsuation and do what's best for VPI.  The guy also stated that he thought Missouri would be a likely member to join A&M.

I think the league is probably done expanding for the near-term, and probably won't expand again unless the Big 12 or B1G start to make moves.  If we're going to 16, Virginia Tech's a no-brainer, and I'm not convinced that UVA would put up a fight about them leaving.  VT is an awkward fit in many ways for the ACC, would probably fit better in the SEC; UVA considers VT to be a far inferior institution and would probably like the differences between the two to be more sharply defined.  Travel to several East schools would be managable. 

I don't understand the Maryland business.  I know about it being in new territory, and close to big media markets like DC and Baltimore, but Maryland just has no allure to me.  If you think Missouri was a bland addition for the conference (and I don't, really) then Maryland has all of the spice and exotic flavor of hospital food for the SEC.  While Maryland brings AAU credentials, it's ability to deliver nearby media markets is probably even less than Mizzou's.

Unless AAU membership is the critical factor, I think the SEC would be better slicing West Virginia off from the Texas 12.  It's a poor fit for the Big 12 and it has solid athletics; it's a decent school as well and fits the SEC-university profile.  Maryland may appear to offer more as far as media markets, but West Virginia plus the areas of southeastern Ohio and southwestern Pennsylvania are roughly equivalent.  Further, the strength of the SEC is about its on-the-field product; West Virginia's is much better than Maryland's, both on the field and the court.  The SEC is now a nationally-consumed sports product; compared to Maryland, West Virginia is a more compelling and competitive addition and would add more value to the brand in the long run.
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texas tush hog

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I don't know why so many people keep talking about SEC expansion, when Slive and the Presidents have made it very clear that they don't plan on any further expansions anytime soon. People think they want to expand, but I don't think they do. They didn't even want to expand to 14 teams, but A&M was too good to pass on, due to adding a sizable share of the Texas market.
The only info I have, and it is old news, is that if the SEC does expand, which is when not if, the first two of three targets are Virginia Tech, Maryland and North Carolina State, assuming of course, that Virginia and North Carolina are already off the table . If all three of those first mentioned declines, then Clemson and Florida State will permanently close out SEC expansion. Clemson and Fla State may already be on the clock for all we know. The only one who knows for sure is Mike Slive and he is sealing all leaks.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 09:30:05 am by texas tush hog »
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DeltaBoy

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It will be a interesting summer of Rumors for sure.
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WILL CLINTON

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If you think Missouri was a bland addition for the conference (and I don't, really) 

In your opinion, what does Mizzou bring to the table? I am firmly in the camp that it was a bland addition to the SEC, so I would like to know what other people see here that I am missing.

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GBHawg

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I thought that part of the expansion equation was increasing viewing audience to increase revenue.  Why go after Florida St or Clemson since those TV sets are already within the SEC.  Expanding to North Carolina, Virginia, Oklahoma, etc... adds TVs which adds money.
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online-with-swine

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The only info I have, and it is old news, is that if the SEC does expand, which is when not if, the first two of three targets are Virginia Tech, Maryland and North Carolina State, assuming of course, that Virginia and North Carolina are already off the table . If all three of those first mentioned declines, then Clemson and Florida State will permanently close out SEC expansion. Clemson and Fla State may already be on the clock for all we know. The only one who knows for sure is Mike Slive and he is sealing all leaks.

What is interesting to think about is the importance of national branding and name recognition vs increasing regional tv footprint.  With VTech and NC state our footprint enlarges but they don't bring the national names that Clemson and FSU does.  Which is more imprtant financially?  I imagine increasing the footprint. But who knows.  My bet is that how the money shakes out will dictate the SECs next move.
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JULIA

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Hopefully it would be either UNC/NC State, UNC/UVA, OU/OSU, WVU/Maryland, or NC State/VT
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GoHogzzGo

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In your opinion, what does Mizzou bring to the table? I am firmly in the camp that it was a bland addition to the SEC, so I would like to know what other people see here that I am missing.

I believe for Slive and the network it was just adding TV markets. A state we weren't in, bordered Tenn and Ark. STL and KC markets.

Aside from that I'm in the same boat as you. Didn't do much for me before, still nothing to me now.
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WILL CLINTON

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I believe for Slive and the network it was just adding TV markets. A state we weren't in, bordered Tenn and Ark. STL and KC markets.

Aside from that I'm in the same boat as you. Didn't do much for me before, still nothing to me now.

I get the TV markets, but other than that, bleh. The B1G turned them down when they were basically begging for membership, and yet the SEC invited them.
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GBHawg

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I get the TV markets, but other than that, bleh. The B1G turned them down when they were basically begging for membership, and yet the SEC invited them.

Money is the reason.  Here is a link that was posted back in January in another thread.

http://outkickthecoverage.com/secs-future-will-include-16-teams-four-divisions-of-four.php

"...the addition of Texas A&M and Missouri added over $100 million in revenue to the coming SEC Network, a network that we showed you would likely be worth in excess of a billion dollars a year in a decade or less."

The SEC expansion is all about the money.  With the addition of NC St. and VT, the SEC adds over 6 million cable and satellite subscribers.  By adding Clemson and Fl St, you add none.  Missouri may not have been the football power that some were looking for as a new member of the SEC, but the St Louis and KC markets are big money.

In that same article, they mention that if/when the SEC is worth 1.3 billion, that would mean 83 million per year per team.  That's a lot of reasons to leave your current league and long time rivals to join the SEC.  That may be just the incentive to separate an NC St. from UNC or Ok St from OU etc...
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NaturalStateReb

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In your opinion, what does Mizzou bring to the table? I am firmly in the camp that it was a bland addition to the SEC, so I would like to know what other people see here that I am missing.



Missouri doesn't bring pulse-pounding excitement, but it's not a completely bland addition to the league.  Putting aside the media markets and population, the Tigers bring quality additions on the field and on the court. 

With the exception of 2004, the Tigers have been to a bowl game every year since 2003.  The 2007 team won 12 games and held a #1 ranking before losing a chance at the national title game in the Big 12 championship against Oklahoma.  Pinkel's record at Mizzou is .611 since 2001, but it's an eye-popping .712 over the last two seasons--a record not far off the mark being set by Miles and Saban over the same period. 

Missouri invented the idea of "homecoming," and as you can guess, it's a big deal there--and you know how the SEC loves a good tradition.  As far as "southernness" is concerned, Missouri is lacking, but its biggest rivalry with the Kansas Jayhawks is a direct result of Civil War relationships; the Border War as well as the names "Tigers" and "Jayhawks" all trace their roots back to the period.  Missouri also sets up the possibility of interesting border series with Kentucky and Arkansas. 

In basketball, Missouri's been a frequent visitor to the NCAA tournament since 1980.  They never seem to be a great tourney team, but have had successful teams over the years; they've had seedings of 4 or better 8 times.  They've won 20 or more games 19 times over that stretch, and 30 or more twice. 

Off the field, Missouri is a university with an excellent academic reputation and is a member of the prestigious American Assocation of Universities.

So, while Missouri doesn't necessary blow you away with charisma, the Tigers do bring something to the SEC quality-wise and aren't nearly the head scratcher that some folks assume.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 02:31:18 pm by NaturalStateReb »
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Smokehouse

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Then they would have to select ECU because UNC and NCst are tied at the hip.

Kinda like TAMU/UT and Mizzou/KU were?
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WILL CLINTON

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Missouri doesn't bring pulse-pounding excitement, but it's not a completely bland addition to the league.  Putting aside the media markets and population, the Tigers bring quality additions on the field and on the court. 

With the exception of 2004, the Tigers have been to a bowl game every year since 2003.  The 2007 team won 12 games and held a #1 ranking before losing a chance at the national title game in the Big 12 championship against Oklahoma.  Pinkel's record at Mizzou is .611 since 2001, but it's an eye-popping .712 over the last two seasons--a record not far off the mark being set by Miles and Saban over the same period. 

Missouri invented the idea of "homecoming," and as you can guess, it's a big deal there--and you know how the SEC loves a good tradition.  As far as "southernness" is concerned, Missouri is lacking, but its biggest rivalry with the Kansas Jayhawks is a direct result of Civil War relationships; the Border War as well as the names "Tigers" and "Jayhawks" all trace their roots back to the period.  Missouri also sets up the possibility of interesting border series with Kentucky and Arkansas. 

In basketball, Missouri's been a frequent visitor to the NCAA tournament since 1980.  They never seem to be a great tourney team, but have had successful teams over the years; they've had seedings of 4 or better 8 times.  They've won 20 or more games 19 times over that stretch, and 30 or more twice. 

Off the field, Missouri is a university with an excellent academic reputation and is a member of the prestigious American Assocation of Universities.

So, while Missouri doesn't necessary blow you away with charisma, the Tigers do bring something to the SEC quality-wise and aren't nearly the head scratcher that some folks assume.

Thanks. Makes sense when you lay it out logically. Between the money and TV's and their above average teams as of late, it doesn't look like a bad pickup. Maybe it was the stigma of being turned down by the Big 10 and I suppose I've just always thought of Mizzou on the same level as Ole Miss or Miss St, and never really paid that close of attention.

I do like the idea of more border wars.
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xtype

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Missouri doesn't bring pulse-pounding excitement, but it's not a completely bland addition to the league.  Putting aside the media markets and population, the Tigers bring quality additions on the field and on the court. 

With the exception of 2004, the Tigers have been to a bowl game every year since 2003.  The 2007 team won 12 games and held a #1 ranking before losing a chance at the national title game in the Big 12 championship against Oklahoma.  Pinkel's record at Mizzou is .611 since 2001, but it's an eye-popping .712 over the last two seasons--a record not far off the mark being set by Miles and Saban over the same period. 

Missouri invented the idea of "homecoming," and as you can guess, it's a big deal there--and you know how the SEC loves a good tradition.  As far as "southernness" is concerned, Missouri is lacking, but its biggest rivalry with the Kansas Jayhawks is a direct result of Civil War relationships; the Border War as well as the names "Tigers" and "Jayhawks" all trace their roots back to the period.  Missouri also sets up the possibility of interesting border series with Kentucky and Arkansas. 

In basketball, Missouri's been a frequent visitor to the NCAA tournament since 1980.  They never seem to be a great tourney team, but have had successful teams over the years; they've had seedings of 4 or better 8 times.  They've won 20 or more games 19 times over that stretch, and 30 or more twice. 

Off the field, Missouri is a university with an excellent academic reputation and is a member of the prestigious American Assocation of Universities.

So, while Missouri doesn't necessary blow you away with charisma, the Tigers do bring something to the SEC quality-wise and aren't nearly the head scratcher that some folks assume.

Very nicely stated
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Murr

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Missouri is a qualtiy addition to the league.  Good post NSR.

Per Dennis Dodds, Big 12 Presidents verbally agree to a TV deal that will pay their current members $20M/yr through 2025 as long as these teams extend their Grant of Rights.  If the ACC can not work out a similar deal, maybe FSU/Clemson and other go sniffing around other leagues.  Internet rumors have the TV contract increasing for the right teams.  Regardless, it'll be another fun summer.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/18984821/big-12-verbally-agrees-to-new-espnfox-deal

Missouri doesn't bring pulse-pounding excitement, but it's not a completely bland addition to the league.  Putting aside the media markets and population, the Tigers bring quality additions on the field and on the court. 

With the exception of 2004, the Tigers have been to a bowl game every year since 2003.  The 2007 team won 12 games and held a #1 ranking before losing a chance at the national title game in the Big 12 championship against Oklahoma.  Pinkel's record at Mizzou is .611 since 2001, but it's an eye-popping .712 over the last two seasons--a record not far off the mark being set by Miles and Saban over the same period. 

Missouri invented the idea of "homecoming," and as you can guess, it's a big deal there--and you know how the SEC loves a good tradition.  As far as "southernness" is concerned, Missouri is lacking, but its biggest rivalry with the Kansas Jayhawks is a direct result of Civil War relationships; the Border War as well as the names "Tigers" and "Jayhawks" all trace their roots back to the period.  Missouri also sets up the possibility of interesting border series with Kentucky and Arkansas. 

In basketball, Missouri's been a frequent visitor to the NCAA tournament since 1980.  They never seem to be a great tourney team, but have had successful teams over the years; they've had seedings of 4 or better 8 times.  They've won 20 or more games 19 times over that stretch, and 30 or more twice. 

Off the field, Missouri is a university with an excellent academic reputation and is a member of the prestigious American Assocation of Universities.

So, while Missouri doesn't necessary blow you away with charisma, the Tigers do bring something to the SEC quality-wise and aren't nearly the head scratcher that some folks assume.
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texas tush hog

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If FSU and Clemson go to a new league it will be the SEC, otherwise no go.
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99toLife

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Missouri doesn't bring pulse-pounding excitement, but it's not a completely bland addition to the league.  Putting aside the media markets and population, the Tigers bring quality additions on the field and on the court. 

With the exception of 2004, the Tigers have been to a bowl game every year since 2003.  The 2007 team won 12 games and held a #1 ranking before losing a chance at the national title game in the Big 12 championship against Oklahoma.  Pinkel's record at Mizzou is .611 since 2001, but it's an eye-popping .712 over the last two seasons--a record not far off the mark being set by Miles and Saban over the same period. 

Missouri invented the idea of "homecoming," and as you can guess, it's a big deal there--and you know how the SEC loves a good tradition.  As far as "southernness" is concerned, Missouri is lacking, but its biggest rivalry with the Kansas Jayhawks is a direct result of Civil War relationships; the Border War as well as the names "Tigers" and "Jayhawks" all trace their roots back to the period.  Missouri also sets up the possibility of interesting border series with Kentucky and Arkansas. 

In basketball, Missouri's been a frequent visitor to the NCAA tournament since 1980.  They never seem to be a great tourney team, but have had successful teams over the years; they've had seedings of 4 or better 8 times.  They've won 20 or more games 19 times over that stretch, and 30 or more twice. 

Off the field, Missouri is a university with an excellent academic reputation and is a member of the prestigious American Assocation of Universities.

So, while Missouri doesn't necessary blow you away with charisma, the Tigers do bring something to the SEC quality-wise and aren't nearly the head scratcher that some folks assume.
Good post great perspective along with info.
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Murr

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If FSU and Clemson go to a new league it will be the SEC, otherwise no go.
Big 12 if SEC says no.  Last summer, according to Douglas, WVU, FSU and Mizzou were given enough votes by the presidents to be added to the SEC.  Slive choice Mizzou; a new footprint, two new markets, average football/tourney level basketball and proud AAU member.  So reguardless of votes, Slive still sends the invite.

In other speculation, the Baylor boards think "Arky to Big 12".
http://www.baylorfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238970

Odd quote at the end.  I'm wondering if anyone on here can elaborate on this sentince:
Quote
I'm guessing the 24/7 guy has heard something similar to what my guy said. Apparently, he's convinced Arkansas has pressure from the Walton family and Jerry Jones to move back to the Big 12. That one kind of shocked me.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2012, 10:42:46 pm by Murr »
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NaturalStateReb

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Big 12 if SEC says no.  Last summer, according to Douglas, WVU, FSU and Mizzou were given enough votes by the presidents to be added to the SEC.  Slive choice Mizzou; a new footprint, two new markets, average football/tourney level basketball and proud AAU member.  So reguardless of votes, Slive still sends the invite.

In other speculation, the Baylor boards think "Arky to Big 12".
http://www.baylorfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238970

Odd quote at the end.  I'm wondering if anyone on here can elaborate on this sentince:

The posters at BaylorFans live in an alternate universe with only the faintest connections to reality.
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Tim Harris

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I would like for it to be Va. Tech/UVA and Oklahoma
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NaturalStateReb

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I would like for it to be Va. Tech/UVA and Oklahoma

I don't think UVA would ultimately be interested, but bringing up UVA just led me to something that I haven't thought of before, but I'm sure Mike Slive has.

Many of the ACC schools, such as UNC, Duke, and UVA, see themselves as academic ivory towers that look at the SEC as an inferior group of schools, academically.  If you want to eventually lure some of those schools into your league, it becomes apparent why schools with AAU membership--both Texas A&M and Missouri have it--were such a priority. 

With A&M and Mizzou in the SEC, the SEC will have 4 AAU members, which is only 1 less than the 5 AAU members the ACC currently claims.  You can then make a credible argument to UNC and Duke (or possibly UVA or Maryland) that joining the SEC is at worst a lateral move academically, and would actually create a stronger league academically overall, since if two AAU schools moved, the SEC would then have 6 AAU institutions--more than the Pac12 and more than any group of schools other than the B1G and the Ivy League. 

Pretty compelling plan if you're taking the long view of conference expansion.
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Inhogswetrust

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The posters at BaylorFans live in an alternate universe with only the faintest connections to reality.

True. They even let you guys steal their mascot!
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d-hog

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I would like for it to be Va. Tech/UVA and Oklahoma

I don't think Oklahoma moves without Oklahoma State.  That being said I wouldn't mind bringing OU and OSU into the West and Move Alabama and Auburn to the East and bring Missouri back to it's natural location in the West. You would have

West                 East
Arkansas            Florida
LSU                  Georgia
Miss St              Vanderbilt
Missouri             Tennessee
Ole Miss             Kentucky
OU                    USC
OSU                  Alabama
Texas A&M         Auburn

Regardless I think the next move when we see one will bring in 2 to the same division, because you then can move Missouri back to the west in either scenario.  2 into the west would move Auburn and Alabama over or two into the East bumps Missouri out and into the west.  Missouri being placed into the East seems to be a stopgap so that's why I think we'll see an addition sooner rather than later.  Two east teams make sense but I wouldn't throw out the idea that two western teams may actually get the nod.  Especially with the Big 12-2-2+2 (whatever it is now) looking like a test run this fall to see if it survives.  I just can't see them keeping up if we go to the 16 super conferences that people are coming up with.  A couple of Big 12 teams might avoid future disaster and abandon ship in a year or two.
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NaturalStateReb

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I don't think Oklahoma moves without Oklahoma State.  That being said I wouldn't mind bringing OU and OSU into the West and Move Alabama and Auburn to the East and bring Missouri back to it's natural location in the West. You would have

West                 East
Arkansas            Florida
LSU                  Georgia
Miss St              Vanderbilt
Missouri             Tennessee
Ole Miss             Kentucky
OU                    USC
OSU                  Alabama
Texas A&M         Auburn

Regardless I think the next move when we see one will bring in 2 to the same division, because you then can move Missouri back to the west in either scenario.  2 into the west would move Auburn and Alabama over or two into the East bumps Missouri out and into the west.  Missouri being placed into the East seems to be a stopgap so that's why I think we'll see an addition sooner rather than later.  Two east teams make sense but I wouldn't throw out the idea that two western teams may actually get the nod.  Especially with the Big 12-2-2+2 (whatever it is now) looking like a test run this fall to see if it survives.  I just can't see them keeping up if we go to the 16 super conferences that people are coming up with.  A couple of Big 12 teams might avoid future disaster and abandon ship in a year or two.

If the Big 12 really does manage to pinch some combination of FSU/Clemson/GaTech/Miami from the ACC, then OU and Okie State stay put and everything in the ACC is up for grabs. 

I can see two teams bolting from the ACC to the SEC and the remains of the ACC merging with what's left of the Big East.

Plus, I'm not sure that having a West made up of recent converts is a good idea if you're LSU, Ole Miss, State, and Arkansas.
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NaturalStateReb

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GBHawg

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As I posted earlier, if the money is right (potential 80+ million per school per year just off TV money), you might be able to separate say an OU and Ok St or a UNC and NC St.  I just don't see the SEC going after 2 schools in the same state.  They will want to pick up 2 schools from 2 different states not currently in the SEC viewership.  More TVs means more money and the SEC will not only be the strongest football conference but the richest as well.
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NWASooner

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No Big 12 school is leaving.  Probably ever.  They're in the process of signing an exit fee equal to 6 years worth of revenue, which will be something like $20 million per school.  That's $120 million.  Even if you could negotiate that down by 50%, that's way too much.  Throw in the tier 3 money the schools get to keep at 100%, they'd be idiotic to leave, especially considering other league's aversion to the tier 3.

If either the Big 12 or SEC expand, they'll probably go after ACC teams.  If one starts taking ACC teams, other ACCers will look to bolt.  It could happen fairly fast is 2 or 4 teams leave.

Clemson and FSU would be good fits for the Big 12 considering the difference in money and that South Carolina and Florida don't want them in the SEC.
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Inhogswetrust

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No Big 12 school is leaving.  Probably ever.  They're in the process of signing an exit fee equal to 6 years worth of revenue, which will be something like $20 million per school.  That's $120 million.  Even if you could negotiate that down by 50%, that's way too much.  Throw in the tier 3 money the schools get to keep at 100%, they'd be idiotic to leave, especially considering other league's aversion to the tier 3.

So why in the heck didn't they do something like that before? If it's so stable then why do you even NEED an exit penalty? All this new talk is all a combination of the new TV deal AND the BCS may change AND Clemson and FSU are football first. Only one or two other schools in the ACC are football first. To be honest I kinda hope this deal is done so then the SEC can also raid the ACC for those other schools.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 06:58:39 pm by Inhogswetrust »
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NWASooner

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So why in the heck didn't they do something like that before? If it's so stable then why do you even NEED an exit penalty? All this new talk is all a combination of the new TV deal AND the BCS may change AND Clemson and FSU are football first. Only one or two other schools in the ACC are football first. To be honest I kinda hope this deal is done so then the SEC can also raid the ACC for those other schools.

The exit penalty was probably added in return for all the new money.  Whoever was writing that check wanted some measure of stability.  A six year fee is more than enough.

As for the ACC, I could see the Big 12 taking FSU and Clemson along with Miami and Georgia Tech (two other team the SEC doesn't want).  They might also look at Pitt and make a serious run at Notre Dame (unlikely) but take Louisville instead.
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Missouri doesn't bring pulse-pounding excitement, but it's not a completely bland addition to the league.  Putting aside the media markets and population, the Tigers bring quality additions on the field and on the court. 

With the exception of 2004, the Tigers have been to a bowl game every year since 2003.  The 2007 team won 12 games and held a #1 ranking before losing a chance at the national title game in the Big 12 championship against Oklahoma.  Pinkel's record at Mizzou is .611 since 2001, but it's an eye-popping .712 over the last two seasons--a record not far off the mark being set by Miles and Saban over the same period. 

Missouri invented the idea of "homecoming," and as you can guess, it's a big deal there--and you know how the SEC loves a good tradition.  As far as "southernness" is concerned, Missouri is lacking, but its biggest rivalry with the Kansas Jayhawks is a direct result of Civil War relationships; the Border War as well as the names "Tigers" and "Jayhawks" all trace their roots back to the period.  Missouri also sets up the possibility of interesting border series with Kentucky and Arkansas. 

In basketball, Missouri's been a frequent visitor to the NCAA tournament since 1980.  They never seem to be a great tourney team, but have had successful teams over the years; they've had seedings of 4 or better 8 times.  They've won 20 or more games 19 times over that stretch, and 30 or more twice. 

Off the field, Missouri is a university with an excellent academic reputation and is a member of the prestigious American Assocation of Universities.

So, while Missouri doesn't necessary blow you away with charisma, the Tigers do bring something to the SEC quality-wise and aren't nearly the head scratcher that some folks assume.

I agree with everything you said. 
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Tim Harris

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I don't think Oklahoma moves without Oklahoma State.  That being said I wouldn't mind bringing OU and OSU into the West and Move Alabama and Auburn to the East and bring Missouri back to it's natural location in the West. You would have

West                 East
Arkansas            Florida
LSU                  Georgia
Miss St              Vanderbilt
Missouri             Tennessee
Ole Miss             Kentucky
OU                    USC
OSU                  Alabama
Texas A&M         Auburn

Regardless I think the next move when we see one will bring in 2 to the same division, because you then can move Missouri back to the west in either scenario.  2 into the west would move Auburn and Alabama over or two into the East bumps Missouri out and into the west.  Missouri being placed into the East seems to be a stopgap so that's why I think we'll see an addition sooner rather than later.  Two east teams make sense but I wouldn't throw out the idea that two western teams may actually get the nod.  Especially with the Big 12-2-2+2 (whatever it is now) looking like a test run this fall to see if it survives.  I just can't see them keeping up if we go to the 16 super conferences that people are coming up with.  A couple of Big 12 teams might avoid future disaster and abandon ship in a year or two.

You aren't doubling down in a stae with the population of Oklahoma. Also it is unlikely that anyone else in the Big 12 leaves. That is just my idea solution. I think we end up with someone from the states of Virginia and North Carolina though.
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Inhogswetrust

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The exit penalty was probably added in return for all the new money.  Whoever was writing that check wanted some measure of stability.  A six year fee is more than enough.

As for the ACC, I could see the Big 12 taking FSU and Clemson along with Miami and Georgia Tech (two other team the SEC doesn't want).  They might also look at Pitt and make a serious run at Notre Dame (unlikely) but take Louisville instead.

DUMB! If the schools are after more money it doesn't make sense to NEED a big exit penalty. IF you are going to pay more why would they WANT to leave. The extra pay should give the stability!
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Hugo Bezdek

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I don't think UVA would ultimately be interested, but bringing up UVA just led me to something that I haven't thought of before, but I'm sure Mike Slive has.

Many of the ACC schools, such as UNC, Duke, and UVA, see themselves as academic ivory towers that look at the SEC as an inferior group of schools, academically.  If you want to eventually lure some of those schools into your league, it becomes apparent why schools with AAU membership--both Texas A&M and Missouri have it--were such a priority. 

With A&M and Mizzou in the SEC, the SEC will have 4 AAU members, which is only 1 less than the 5 AAU members the ACC currently claims.  You can then make a credible argument to UNC and Duke (or possibly UVA or Maryland) that joining the SEC is at worst a lateral move academically, and would actually create a stronger league academically overall, since if two AAU schools moved, the SEC would then have 6 AAU institutions--more than the Pac12 and more than any group of schools other than the B1G and the Ivy League. 

Pretty compelling plan if you're taking the long view of conference expansion.

I think you're right on with this line of thinking. The university presidents like the SEC's winning ways but are also tired of being a punching bag in terms of the league's academic reputation. I imagine Slive's dream combo is UVA/UNC if the ACC becomes vulnerable. Both are AAU members considered among the "Public Ivies". They generate more in athletic revenues than VT/NCSU and have more successful overall athletic programs according to Director's Cup standings. Those states are fast growing states that bring lots of new viewers to the SEC and they are of course a natural geographic fit.

In terms of academic research spending UVA trails 8 of the current 14 members of the SEC, and UNC would be third behind Florida and A&M. They've done an excellent job of cultivating a great academic reputation, but the degree of separation from much of the SEC is largely just that, reputation.
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NWASooner

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DUMB! If the schools are after more money it doesn't make sense to NEED a big exit penalty. IF you are going to pay more why would they WANT to leave. The extra pay should give the stability!

You've obviously never negotiated for anything. 
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Inhogswetrust

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You've obviously never negotiated for anything. 

I negotiate everyday in my business.

Your post was about nothing but money and then when I bring out the lack of needing a big exit fee due to the large amount of money mentioned you come back with this. Thats FUNNY.......................
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 07:05:53 am by Inhogswetrust »
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