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Author Topic: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving  (Read 2034 times)

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Salvaboar Dali

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2006, 12:59:27 am »

then tell me how he is improving?

Each season he has had more wins than the previous season.
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Richard_white

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #51 on: February 08, 2006, 01:02:54 am »

lol..BOTTOM FEEDERS!!..obvisously the term of improvement means to you if he wins more every year he is doing good?..so maybe lets say 2010 we might get a birth in the ncaa tournament or just winning 1 game in the sec tournament or trying to stay with teams like Miss ST okay i see your point
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Call Mr. Sow

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #52 on: February 08, 2006, 09:32:58 am »

i think you just have to let it play out at this point.  its going to go one way or the other, and if we don't make the tourney then most people seem to agree that Heath will be replaced.

I'd love for that to be true, but it just is not.  Our administration is totally inept and completely lacks a desire to win.  If the Hogs win only one more game the rest of the year, Heath will get a questionnaire at the end of the season, just like last year.  I wish I was wrong, but deep down I bet you know I'm right.
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socalhogcaller

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #53 on: February 08, 2006, 10:01:48 am »

For people to say that Stan Heath is improving like yocdaddy and more, lets go back to Todd Day, Lee Mayberry and Oliver Miller freshman year compared to this years team of 05-06; Nolan had a young group that made the final four followed up by a sweet sixteen the next year, where is Stan Heath improvement?  I ask you where is his improvement?

I have sit here and read many of post saying Stan is improving and I don't understand why anyone can come up with so much BS. Stan first year had 9 wins ( i will give him that b/c of Nolan's recruits) followed up by 12 and last year with 18 and he denied the NIT tournament which to me was insane b/c i felt it would help a young team improve and get to experience as somewhat of a tournament play.  I know there are some saying come on man he is doing better but just like i said on one of my threads is look at overall record, look a road record in conference play, look at the talent he has and where he is taking them. I will not believe in my heart that Stan Heath is the right man for this job b/c of his lack of talent develop and determination of achieving the ultimate goal and that is winning the SEC and a NC

WPS
No it takes more than wins to improve..so let just say if you had a team and you kept winning more games each year but not winning one game in the sec tournament,  not making the NCAA tournament and especially not winning against teams like florida, kentucky and alabama. Like owning a company and being in debt but every year you cut into just alittle out of the debt, the bottom line is that YOUR STILL IN DEBT.


WPS

I know one thing...your posts are not improving. 
« Last Edit: February 08, 2006, 10:03:19 am by socalhogcaller »
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yocdaddy

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2006, 10:25:38 am »

It is hard to convince someone that has already made up their mind, but here goes my best shot.  Heath is not a great coach.  Heath is a good, young coach.  He will make mistakes......more mistakes than Tubby, Coach K, Knight, Eddie Sutton, Rick Pitino, etc....seasoned veteran coaches.  He is improving......look at the statistical improvement.  Almost every statistical category has improved since his arrival.  The state of the program was absolutely awful when he arrived.  So much, that only last season and this should be used to evaluate him as a coach.  He is 33-18 in that time period (10-14) in the SEC.  I know as fans we can expect better than this mark, but to demand it so early in his tenure (considering the first two seasons shouldn't even be considered) is a little unrealistic.  Let's face it, Arkansas is not a basketball mecca like it was when Bud Walton was first built.  There are many places that are more attractive to big time coaches.  I don't want to get rid of Heath yet.  Because if we do, we restart the cycle.  Yes, the state of the program is better now than when he arrived, but great high school players don't go to programs who change coaches every 5 years.  Great players go to established programs or established coaches.  Right now we have neither, but getting rid of a good, young coach because some people's expectations may be a little high, would start the cycle all over again. 

Just give him the rest of this season and next, before we run him out of town.

   
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hogsanity

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2006, 10:32:37 am »

What I find interesting is that we are told by those wnating certain coaches gone that the bottom line is W's......until that no longer suits their arguement.  Then it is the quality of W's.  Take this year, people bash the schedule.  I would say that in a normal year a schedule that included Uconn, MD KS Mizzu and TT for OOC games would have been a good sched.  How were they supposed to know that MIzzu, TT and KS would all be avg or bad in the same year? 

Comparing DAY. Mayberry and Miller and the team they palyed on as Fr and Sophs to this team is absurd.  First, in this day and age it is doubtful Day would have played more than 1 yr in college and most likely Miller would have left too.  Throw in the fact that the SWC was HORRIBLE in those years and you should begin to get the picture.

Heath was given the job of completely rebuilding a program that had been destroyed since the end of the 95 NC game. 

Yes, this years team has lost some games it should have won, but in years past, they would not even have been in position to win those games. 
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pfrg999

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2006, 10:44:07 am »

For people to say that Stan Heath is improving like yocdaddy and more, lets go back to Todd Day, Lee Mayberry and Oliver Miller freshman year compared to this years team of 05-06; Nolan had a young group that made the final four followed up by a sweet sixteen the next year, where is Stan Heath improvement?  I ask you where is his improvement?

I have sit here and read many of post saying Stan is improving and I don't understand why anyone can come up with so much BS. Stan first year had 9 wins ( i will give him that b/c of Nolan's recruits) followed up by 12 and last year with 18 and he denied the NIT tournament which to me was insane b/c i felt it would help a young team improve and get to experience as somewhat of a tournament play.  I know there are some saying come on man he is doing better but just like i said on one of my threads is look at overall record, look a road record in conference play, look at the talent he has and where he is taking them. I will not believe in my heart that Stan Heath is the right man for this job b/c of his lack of talent develop and determination of achieving the ultimate goal and that is winning the SEC and a NC

WPS

4 players off the Team were Drafted in the NBA... 3 In the First Round  -Todd Day #8, Oliver Miller #22, Matberry # 23. Butch Mottis # 37

This is Not a Good Comparison....
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othermac

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #57 on: February 08, 2006, 10:50:45 am »

straight up i say that recruiting is more important than coaching in college basketball. sure you need both, but you have to have the players before you can have the team. and recruiting does not come easy to all coaches. some hate to recruit, not ours. whereas coaching is more of an experience driven ability. stan was very green when he came onboard here. he had one season a head coach. i think he is developing his coaching skills, our team is getting better, believe it or not, our road record may not be improving, but i dont remember double digit leads against conference favorites last year away from home. i think stan has this team poised to take off, they just need a big win to get that gorilla off of their back. i am going to cheer like crazy for them to get it tonight.
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RealSmartGuy

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #58 on: February 08, 2006, 10:59:21 am »

I agree with every thing in this post, these huggers who love heath can go support South Carolina East Central State A&M college of Eastern Florda Community College in his next coaching gig.  Stan is not the man

Fire STAN
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pfrg999

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #59 on: February 08, 2006, 11:01:41 am »

I agree with every thing in this post, these huggers who love heath can go support South Carolina East Central State A&M college of Eastern Florda Community College in his next coaching gig.  Stan is not the man

Fire STAN


He will Be an asst. somewhere.... No I do not think he is the Man... But I will root for every game just as if he were... and the b!tch if we lose.... GHG   WPS
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three

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2006, 02:59:24 pm »

Here's is the tell tell sign this guy is NOT  a good coach.  In his press conference on Monday, he made the comment TWICE that verified what his critiques complain about the most, he doesn't make in-game adjustments.  The comment was this:  "I believe you do your coaching in practice, not in the games.  If you tell your guys what to do in practice, they can carry taht over in games."

It's a nice idea, the problem is, things change over the course of the game.  This is why we always seem to do so well in the first half, and choke in the second.  The opposing coach makes adjustments, Heath does not.
straight up i say that recruiting is more important than coaching in college basketball. sure you need both, but you have to have the players before you can have the team. and recruiting does not come easy to all coaches. some hate to recruit, not ours. whereas coaching is more of an experience driven ability. stan was very green when he came onboard here. he had one season a head coach. i think he is developing his coaching skills, our team is getting better, believe it or not, our road record may not be improving, but i dont remember double digit leads against conference favorites last year away from home. i think stan has this team poised to take off, they just need a big win to get that gorilla off of their back. i am going to cheer like crazy for them to get it tonight.
Ture, you need talent.  The problem with your logic is this, if recruiting is more important than coaching, Scotty Thurman would have never made it, nor would Pat Bradley.  JJ Reddick would still be a liability on defense and a one dimensional offensive player who can only shoot jump shots off the pass.  Deron Williams (PG for Illinois last year) would have always been a bad defender and guard with no perimeter shooting, Tim Duncan would only have a hook shot, and I can go on and on.  Yes, you need talent, but it is the COACHING STAFF'S job to develop that talent.  The reason kids improve between seasons is because of the coaching they get.  These kids have not improved much at all between seasons.  Darian Townes hasn't gotten better, he has the same moves, and still lacks intensity for a full 40 minutes.  Ronnie Brewer still takes plays off, Jonathon Modica still limits himself to a three or a drive to the rim and nothing in between.  Dontell Jefferson still doesn't attack the rim, and with his size, he should be an unstoppable force driving and dishing. 

Stan does a FANTASTIC job of gameplanning for a team, but he DOES NOT develop players, he DOES NOT make adjustments at the most dire time of the game, and he DOES NOT draw up successful plays to end games.  He, by his own admission, is not a good bench coach, and that's what your head coach has to be for your team to be successful.  Recruiting is for the assistants, studying game film, for the most part, is for the assisstants.  But, a good head coach can look at your game and tell you what you need to do to improve, and can look at a first half, and tell you how to offset EVERYTHING the other team is doing well.  That's what we need on the bench, not a nice guy who'd rather be in practice or in someone's home recruiting!!!!  ARKANSAS HAS AN ASSISTANT COACH AS IT'S HEAD COACH, AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM, PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
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othermac

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2006, 03:54:55 pm »

Here's is the tell tell sign this guy is NOT  a good coach.  In his press conference on Monday, he made the comment TWICE that verified what his critiques complain about the most, he doesn't make in-game adjustments.  The comment was this:  "I believe you do your coaching in practice, not in the games.  If you tell your guys what to do in practice, they can carry taht over in games."

It's a nice idea, the problem is, things change over the course of the game.  This is why we always seem to do so well in the first half, and choke in the second.  The opposing coach makes adjustments, Heath does not

Trure, you need talent.  The problem with your logic is this, if recruiting is more important than coaching, Scotty Thurman would have never made it, nor would Pat Bradley.  JJ Reddick would still be a liability on defense and a one dimensional offensive player who can only shoot jump shots off the pass.  Deron Williams (PG for Illinois last year) would have always been a bad defender and guard with no perimeter shooting, Tim Duncan would only have a hook shot, and I can go on and on.  Yes, you need talent, but it is the COACHING STAFF'S job to develop that talent.  The reason kids improve between seasons is because of the coaching they get.  These kids have not improved much at all between seasons.  Darian Townes hasn't gotten better, he has the same moves, and still lacks intensity for a full 40 minutes.  Ronnie Brewer still takes plays off, Jonathon Modica still limits himself to a three or a drive to the rim and nothing in between.  Dontell Jefferson still doesn't attack the rim, and with his size, he should be an unstoppable force driving and dishing.

first off scotty was a shooter from day 1, he was a scoring maching from his 1st red-white game on. as far as reddick's defensive prowess, i would imagine that he saves his legs for when he has the ball. i dont think he holds anyone down. 
[/quote]Stan does a FANTASTIC job of gameplanning for a team, but he DOES NOT develop players, he DOES NOT make adjustments at the most dire time of the game, and he DOES NOT draw up successful plays to end games.  He, by his own admission, is not a good bench coach, and that's what your head coach has to be for your team to be successful.  Recruiting is for the assistants, studying game film, for the most part, is for the assisstants.  But, a good head coach can look at your game and tell you what you need to do to improve, and can look at a first half, and tell you how to offset EVERYTHING the other team is doing well.  That's what we need on the bench, not a nice guy who'd rather be in practice or in someone's home recruiting!!!!  ARKANSAS HAS AN ASSISTANT COACH AS IT'S HEAD COACH, AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM, PLAIN AND SIMPLE.[/quote]

stan may not make the best adjustments or improve his players like some of the others, but like they say "it's not a scientific rocket" you dont have to be a einstien to learn it. he is coming, ever hear of guy v lewis, i always heard what a rotten coach he was, and he put out some pretty decent teams on the court in his time.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2006, 04:02:03 pm by othermac »
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three

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2006, 04:30:30 pm »

First of all, the point with Thurman and Bradley was that they were discoveries.  I'm quite aware of the fact that you can't be a scrub as a freshman when you lead your team in scoring like Thurman did.  Stan has not discovered anyone.  The point with Reddick was completely lost on you.  I did not say he was a lock down guy, I'm not naming him the Defensive POY, but I am saying he's a good defender who stays in front of his man, rather than getting burned like he did as a freshman.  He DEVELOPED!!!!! 

stan may not make the best adjustments or improve his players like some of the others, but like they say "it's not a scientific rocket" you dont have to be a einstien to learn it. he is coming, ever hear of guy v lewis, i always heard what a rotten coach he was, and he put out some pretty decent teams on the court in his time.
He's not learning.  Give me some evidence to support that point.  He has not learned how to win games in the final 10 minutes, nor has he learned how to be more disciplined with his players.  Case in point, in the Ole Miss game, Jefferson through a pass out of bounds, and Thomas had to dive for it.  It was a turnover.  Stan yelled something at Jefferson.  DJ said "huh?", Stan repeated, again DJ said what, Stan yelled once more, and DJ waved him off with his hand and said 'F@*# You!"  Heath did nothing in response!!!  That is a lack of discipline.  At no point in LIFE can you wave someone off and yell and explitive at them without some kind of consequence........unless you're playing for Stan Heath.  That is unacceptable. 

Now, as far as this comparison to Lewis.  I'll give you Lewis should have done more with his talent, but he also discovered a 7' soccer player and developed him into a Hall of Famer (ofcourse, I'm referring to the Dream).  He also was able to make solid adjustments, sometimes he screwed up, but he made better adjustments than Stanley.  Your comparing Stan to a Hall of Fame Coach who had great success in developing players, something Stan has not shown the ability to do in 4 years.  This team still loses in the same ways they lost games last year.  Yes, they are in games on the road they were getting handedly beaten in last season, but they should be with that extra experience.  Last year, I'd credit a lot of those performances to inexperience on the frontline.  However, this year he has HIS guys with the EXPERIENCE he's needed, and he STILL CAN'T WIN!!!!  Okay, yeah, he has a bunch of sophs on the frontline, what happens next year when he has a bunch of FR in the backcourt?  Are we going to hear about how he needs more experience in the backcourt until those kids are JR and SR, and then we here about how is 5 FR on the frontline need more experience.  You see my point?  By that logic, it's a vicious cycle of mediocrity.  But, I guess that's the accepted norm at the University of Arkansas today.
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Call Mr. Sow

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #63 on: February 08, 2006, 04:49:52 pm »

Case in point, in the Ole Miss game, Jefferson through a pass out of bounds, and Thomas had to dive for it.  It was a turnover.  Stan yelled something at Jefferson.  DJ said "huh?", Stan repeated, again DJ said what, Stan yelled once more, and DJ waved him off with his hand and said 'F@*# You!"  Heath did nothing in response!!!  That is a lack of discipline.  At no point in LIFE can you wave someone off and yell and explitive at them without some kind of consequence........unless you're playing for Stan Heath.  That is unacceptable. 

Did anyone else witness what three here is describing?  If so, I will have to ratchet up my disdain for Heath a significant amount...if that is indeed possible.  You can't let some punk kid show you up in front of 12,000 people and expect to have any success at all in this league.  If this is true, then it sounds like we've got the same damn attitude problems we had last year, and I thought all the Heath apologists said they would be solved once Olu left.
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three

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #64 on: February 08, 2006, 05:03:03 pm »

Case in point, in the Ole Miss game, Jefferson through a pass out of bounds, and Thomas had to dive for it.  It was a turnover.  Stan yelled something at Jefferson.  DJ said "huh?", Stan repeated, again DJ said what, Stan yelled once more, and DJ waved him off with his hand and said 'F@*# You!"  Heath did nothing in response!!!  That is a lack of discipline.  At no point in LIFE can you wave someone off and yell and explitive at them without some kind of consequence........unless you're playing for Stan Heath.  That is unacceptable. 

Did anyone else witness what three here is describing?  If so, I will have to ratchet up my disdain for Heath a significant amount...if that is indeed possible.  You can't let some punk kid show you up in front of 12,000 people and expect to have any success at all in this league.  If this is true, then it sounds like we've got the same damn attitude problems we had last year, and I thought all the Heath apologists said they would be solved once Olu left.
I don't know if any fans saw it, but you could see it plain as day on the baseline by Arkansas' bench, myself and a camera man from KNWA both saw it.
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Call Mr. Sow

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #65 on: February 08, 2006, 05:05:27 pm »

No offense to you, because I don't know you, but I'm probably going to mark that down as just a rumor if I don't get any more confirmation.  That seems almost too over the top to be believed.  I can't stand Heath as a coach, but it would still boggle my mind if he let that slide. 
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Ched "UglyUncle" Carpenter

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #66 on: February 08, 2006, 05:05:29 pm »

Case in point, in the Ole Miss game, Jefferson through a pass out of bounds, and Thomas had to dive for it.  It was a turnover.  Stan yelled something at Jefferson.  DJ said "huh?", Stan repeated, again DJ said what, Stan yelled once more, and DJ waved him off with his hand and said 'F@*# You!"  Heath did nothing in response!!!  That is a lack of discipline.  At no point in LIFE can you wave someone off and yell and explitive at them without some kind of consequence........unless you're playing for Stan Heath.  That is unacceptable. 

Did anyone else witness what three here is describing?  If so, I will have to ratchet up my disdain for Heath a significant amount...if that is indeed possible.  You can't let some punk kid show you up in front of 12,000 people and expect to have any success at all in this league.  If this is true, then it sounds like we've got the same damn attitude problems we had last year, and I thought all the Heath apologists said they would be solved once Olu left.
I don't know if any fans saw it, but you could see it plain as day on the baseline by Arkansas' bench, myself and a camera man from KNWA both saw it.

I saw the exchange...but didn't hear the words being said.  I saw the wave off by Jefferson, but from my seats that is all you can see.  So, the incident happened, at least the physical part, the verbal I couldn't hear.
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Call Mr. Sow

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #67 on: February 08, 2006, 05:06:45 pm »

I saw the exchange...but didn't hear the words being said.  I saw the wave off by Jefferson, but from my seats that is all you can see.  So, the incident happened, at least the physical part, the verbal I couldn't hear.

Good enough for me.  Punk kid showing up the coach can't be tolerated, no matter what specific words were exchanged.
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three

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #68 on: February 08, 2006, 05:09:39 pm »

No offense to you, because I don't know you, but I'm probably going to mark that down as just a rumor if I don't get any more confirmation.  That seems almost too over the top to be believed.  I can't stand Heath as a coach, but it would still boggle my mind if he let that slide. 
Hey, that's completely understandable.  It's one of those things, no matter how much you don't like the coach, you have to see it to believe it.
I saw the exchange...but didn't hear the words being said.  I saw the wave off by Jefferson, but from my seats that is all you can see.  So, the incident happened, at least the physical part, the verbal I couldn't hear.

Good enough for me.  Punk kid showing up the coach can't be tolerated, no matter what specific words were exchanged.
That said, hope now you've "seen it" and can "believe it."  For me, and I may be alone on this, but that's the straw that breaks the camel's back.  You can't allow players to dis-respect you liek that.  It's obsurd!!
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Richard_white

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #69 on: February 08, 2006, 05:10:29 pm »

Like the saying goes "to many chiefs and not enough indians". Stan has the problem of Improvement Development and now with disipline we have more of a crisis.

WPS
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Richard_white

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #70 on: February 08, 2006, 05:10:53 pm »

Karma for three
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hog caller

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2006, 05:35:33 pm »

can anyone tell me why S.Hill is not our post man. does he not know how to play post?

it almost make this grown man want to cry ,when he plays a whole game and never tries to get open for and inside pass and dunk ,or lay of or just a 13 ft jumper

why, why, why, is it talent or know how or coaching?
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hogtheball

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2006, 05:38:40 pm »

They usually run 2 post plays a game for him.  he converts on one. He is usually the screen-away guy coming from the off-side of the action. heath says he's a beast on offense in practice.  i don't think it makes sense to any of us...
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three

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2006, 05:40:13 pm »

can anyone tell me why S.Hill is not our post man. does he not know how to play post?

it almost make this grown man want to cry ,when he plays a whole game and never tries to get open for and inside pass and dunk ,or lay of or just a 13 ft jumper

why, why, why, is it talent or know how or coaching?
Steven actually has a very nice passing touch on the high post, and he's gotten loose on the baseline for a couple of nice dunks.  But, mostly, I just don't think he's offensive minded, and don't believe he ever will be.  The problem is all we here from Heath is "You guys should see him in practice, he's our most effective post player."   So, judging from that statement, Stan is either full of crap, or isn't able to get Steven the ball in position to score during the games. 
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JustoHogFan

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #74 on: February 08, 2006, 05:48:16 pm »

The only upsets games that Stan has as a coach is the other team beating us even though we had an 18 point lead.....

Stan Heath Quote- " NCAA Tournament or Bust " 

They bought Nolan out for just jokin around and sayn something semi-serious so if Stan dont go to the tourney and keeps his job Frank Broyles should be kicked out of Fayetteville and put in an old folks home.
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Richard_white

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Re: This is for the people that believe Stan Heath is improving
« Reply #75 on: February 08, 2006, 05:50:04 pm »

Maybe it's the hearing peice Frank is wearing..TURN IT UP!..GET STAN HEATH OUT!
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