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Author Topic: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?  (Read 2099 times)

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taintlint

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Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« on: January 07, 2006, 09:41:24 pm »

 Of course he did not. Nolan could have had retarded apes with asbestos mittens for hands on his final team and there would still be no excuse for losing 4 years later. Rebuilding?!?! We should have been reloading twice over now. I honestly do not recall who filled up Nolans last roster and where they so freakin bad that they would have caused us to lose to Miss. St. tonight? No more Heath apologists.
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DukeOfPork

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2006, 10:00:23 pm »

The basketball team still hasn't gotten over the "NCAA cloud" that hovered over the football team in 2000.  We're supposed to be patient. . . .
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Dwight Pettifogger

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2006, 10:02:23 pm »

blahblahblah
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silvertip

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2006, 10:55:21 pm »

Good to see you back, taintlint. (not really) Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare? One word---YES.

I'm really pissed about tonight. But I'll tell you one thing, Mrs Richardson. Every year since Heath has been here has been better than what your old man left. Comprende? 
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taintlint

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2006, 11:03:21 pm »

Good to see you back, taintlint. (not really) Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare? One word---YES.

I'm really pissed about tonight. But I'll tell you one thing, Mrs Richardson. Every year since Heath has been here has been better than what your old man left. Comprende?

I'm not a Nolan fan first off. I'll tell you this much though, he would have been all in their asses tonight. Instead, we have Heath who blows them kisses and pats them on their back in return for crappy play! We have become better every year?!?!? Really!?!? Has our SEC record become drastically or even marginally better? No. Are we better in most SEC statistical categories? On a individual basis we have a couple of shining lights but as a team our stats have flatlined for four years. We have better athletes but that has not turned into "w"s. Any additional wins we have had have been non conference wins and against teams that are so bad that it's embarrassing to even have to mention their names. Make all the excuses you want. 4 years is plenty of time to find 5 boys who can beat a zone and hit free throws.
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Niels Boar

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2006, 11:04:54 pm »

Good to see you back, taintlint. (not really) Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare? One word---YES.

I'm really pissed about tonight. But I'll tell you one thing, Mrs Richardson. Every year since Heath has been here has been better than what your old man left. Comprende?

Yeah, it's all creative criticism of Heath.  You're full of crap as usual.
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taintlint

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2006, 11:06:51 pm »

Good to see you back, taintlint. (not really) Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare? One word---YES.

I'm really pissed about tonight. But I'll tell you one thing, Mrs Richardson. Every year since Heath has been here has been better than what your old man left. Comprende?

I'm not a Nolan fan first off. I'll tell you this much though, he would have been all in their asses tonight. Instead, we have Heath who blows them kisses and pats them on their back in return for crappy play! We have become better every year?!?!? Really!?!? Has our SEC record become drastically or even marginally better? No. Are we better in most SEC statistical categories? On a individual basis we have a couple of shining lights but as a team our stats have flatlined for four years. We have better athletes but that has not turned into "w"s. Any additional wins we have had have been non conference wins and against teams that are so bad that it's embarrassing to even have to mention their names. Make all the excuses you want. 4 years is plenty of time to find 5 boys who can beat a zone and hit free throws.
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Hogs4Ever

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2006, 11:07:29 pm »

Beating a bunch of cupcakes and going 2-23 in the SEC on the road is NOT improving.
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filthyswine

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2006, 11:10:33 pm »

Of course he did not. Nolan could have had retarded apes with asbestos mittens for hands on his final team and there would still be no excuse for losing 4 years later. Rebuilding?!?! We should have been reloading twice over now. I honestly do not recall who filled up Nolans last roster and where they so freakin bad that they would have caused us to lose to Miss. St. tonight? No more Heath apologists.

I don't care who you are, that's funny.  I agree with it, though. 
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silvertip

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2006, 11:23:34 pm »

Of course he did not. Nolan could have had retarded apes with asbestos mittens for hands on his final team and there would still be no excuse for losing 4 years later. Rebuilding?!?! We should have been reloading twice over now. I honestly do not recall who filled up Nolans last roster and where they so freakin bad that they would have caused us to lose to Miss. St. tonight? No more Heath apologists.

Obviously you can't can't remember Nolan's last roster who finished the year something like 14-16. Maybe you can't remember Nolan's "great" 16-14 team in 2000 which only got to the NCAAT by winning the SECT & promptly got bitch-slapped by a Miami team that actually had some meat on their bones.

I actually saw 2 of those games in Atlanta when the Hawgs ran the table in the SECT to get to the NCAAT after their pitiful losing season. It was so exciting to see all those young FR & Soph players like Dean, Gipson, Cleveland, Lane, Baker, & Satchell---who peaked on that wonderfull weekend & proceeded to steadily go down hill for the rest of their careers.

"No more Heath apologists" you say. I say no more of you Nolan-lovers who ignore his PITIFUL record in his last few years after ihheriting a very strong program from Eddie Sutton & running it into the ground by the time your hero Nolan left it desyroyed and in disgrace.
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GoshenHog

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2006, 11:24:06 pm »

We have become better every year?!?!? Really!?!? Has our SEC record become drastically or even marginally better? No. Are we better in most SEC statistical categories? On a individual basis we have a couple of shining lights but as a team our stats have flatlined for four years. We have better athletes but that has not turned into "w"s. Any additional wins we have had have been non conference wins and against teams that are so bad that it's embarrassing to even have to mention their names. Make all the excuses you want. 4 years is plenty of time to find 5 boys who can beat a zone and hit free throws.
I agree with this 100%.  Your last statement says it all.  I've never been a "fire the bum" kind of guy, but any hard, realistic look at the basketball program reveals marginal improvement at best.

I don't care who the coach is, I just want to win.
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taintlint

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2006, 11:26:55 pm »

Of course he did not. Nolan could have had retarded apes with asbestos mittens for hands on his final team and there would still be no excuse for losing 4 years later. Rebuilding?!?! We should have been reloading twice over now. I honestly do not recall who filled up Nolans last roster and where they so freakin bad that they would have caused us to lose to Miss. St. tonight? No more Heath apologists.

Obviously you can't can't remember Nolan's last roster who finished the year something like 14-16. Maybe you can't remember Nolan's "great" 16-14 team in 2000 which only got to the NCAAT by winning the SECT & promptly got bitch-slapped by a Miami team that actually had some meat on their bones.

I actually saw 2 of those games in Atlanta when the Hawgs ran the table in the SECT to get to the NCAAT after their pitiful losing season. It was so exciting to see all those young FR & Soph players like Dean, Gipson, Cleveland, Lane, Baker, & Satchell---who peaked on that wonderfull weekend & proceeded to steadily go down hill for the rest of their careers.

"No more Heath apologists" you say. I say no more of you Nolan-lovers who ignore his PITIFUL record in his last few years after ihheriting a very strong program from Eddie Sutton & running it into the ground by the time your hero Nolan left it desyroyed and in disgrace.

I am in no way, shape, form, fashion a "nolan lover". I just simply do not see how his shadow loomed over the "Hump" in Starkville. We have been patient and played nice long enough. When is the head coach held accountable for losing on the road (again) to a team that has been handed "L"'s by Little Sisters of the Poor?
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filthyswine

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2006, 11:27:32 pm »

Of course he did not. Nolan could have had retarded apes with asbestos mittens for hands on his final team and there would still be no excuse for losing 4 years later. Rebuilding?!?! We should have been reloading twice over now. I honestly do not recall who filled up Nolans last roster and where they so freakin bad that they would have caused us to lose to Miss. St. tonight? No more Heath apologists.

Obviously you can't can't remember Nolan's last roster who finished the year something like 14-16. Maybe you can't remember Nolan's "great" 16-14 team in 2000 which only got to the NCAAT by winning the SECT & promptly got bitch-slapped by a Miami team that actually had some meat on their bones.

I actually saw 2 of those games in Atlanta when the Hawgs ran the table in the SECT to get to the NCAAT after their pitiful losing season. It was so exciting to see all those young FR & Soph players like Dean, Gipson, Cleveland, Lane, Baker, & Satchell---who peaked on that wonderfull weekend & proceeded to steadily go down hill for the rest of their careers.

"No more Heath apologists" you say. I say no more of you Nolan-lovers who ignore his PITIFUL record in his last few years after ihheriting a very strong program from Eddie Sutton & running it into the ground by the time your hero Nolan left it desyroyed and in disgrace.

Believe me, no-one was happier to see Nolan go than me.  I remember how bad his last few teams were.  That said, I would like to win the games that we are supposed to win. 
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AFWarrior83

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2006, 11:29:09 pm »

Guys at work that are from other states, say that the old Hogs back in the 90's were in great shape and would wear a team down, by doing the 8 minutes of hell? I don't know what they were talking about, I was a kid back then... They said that the Hogs were better prepared back then.
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taintlint

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2006, 11:31:46 pm »

Guys at work that are from other states, say that the old Hogs back in the 90's were in great shape and would wear a team down, by doing the 8 minutes of hell? I don't know what they were talking about, I was a kid back then... They said that the Hogs were better prepared back then.

The 40 minutes of hell would run your ass up and down that court til you puked. It was fast and fun. I'm not the best x's and o's guy here and I have no idea if many teams could still pull it off but it kept things entertaining.
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filthyswine

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2006, 11:32:13 pm »

Guys at work that are from other states, say that the old Hogs back in the 90's were in great shape and would wear a team down, by doing the 8 minutes of hell? I don't know what they were talking about, I was a kid back then... They said that the Hogs were better prepared back then.

That's pretty accurate.  They would just run most teams into the ground.  Then, Nolan got tired of recruiting and his brand of ball wouldn't work because of a lack of athletes.
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AFWarrior83

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2006, 11:34:25 pm »

Gotcha, they talked pretty highly of those guys and still remembered a lot of the players like Karem Ried, and Scotty Thurman and so on...
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Calling All Hogs

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2006, 11:41:57 pm »

Basketball is not football. A bb team can be restocked in one year with 3 or 4 top recruits. Michigan proved that.
So who cares how Nolan left the team. That's like saying a bad plumber messed up my sink 4 years ago so the one
I've used since shouldn't be blamed.
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taintlint

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2006, 11:47:20 pm »

Basketball is not football. A bb team can be restocked in one year with 3 or 4 top recruits. Michigan proved that.
So who cares how Nolan left the team. That's like saying a bad plumber messed up my sink 4 years ago so the one
I've used since shouldn't be blamed.

That is kinda my way of thinking. It only takes a couple of studs (which I think we have) and some decent coaching to bring you to at least average. That should not take 4 plus years.
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silvertip

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2006, 12:05:05 am »

Good to see you back, taintlint. (not really) Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare? One word---YES.

I'm really pissed about tonight. But I'll tell you one thing, Mrs Richardson. Every year since Heath has been here has been better than what your old man left. Comprende?

Yeah, it's all creative criticism of Heath. You're full of crap as usual.

OK, Niels. You're better at research than I am. How about you back up your disastifaction with Heath by comparing his record with Nolan. Tell us how many NCAAT tourney games Nolan won from '98 thru '02 as compared to Stan's NCAAT record in Stan's first 4 years. I would really like to see those #s as I looked at that a year ago & as usual my memory is not good. Give us the #s, chief.

And then, how about you tell us about Nolan's record in his first 4 years in the pitiful SWC as compared to Stan's first 4 years in the almighty SEC.

It being 11:30 on Sat night & myself about about 5 beers & 3 shots of Jack Daniels into the wind---I'm just going to go ahead & quit tap-dancing around & say what I REALLY think. Do not take this personal Niels, as I am not talking about you.

The first couple of years when Nolan showed up, his teams were not that good & he was struggling with a daughter dying with leukemia. At that time, there were a lot of fans who would just not cut him any slack at all & said he could not hold a candle to Eddie Sutton. As far as I'm concerned a lot of that was racism.

Now, Heath can't do anything right in some people's mind, and as far as I'm concerned it's the same damn problem. I DESPISE Nolan's lawsuit claiming that racism led him to be treated more harshly than HDN. I am disgusted by Nolan's assertion that HDN was treated better than Nolan because of race.

But I will lay it right out on the line. I think that a lot of the criticism I see of Heath is pure & simple racism. I think a lot off the people razzin on Heath's ass right now are a lot of of the same people who were razzin on Nolan when he first got here. What Nolan correctly called "Redneck SOBs." And I don't even like Nolan. But I saw it then, and I see it now. Some of the same people who worship HDN now just can't stand Stan.

Make of it what you want. Not you, Niels. But there are a bunch of people around here who just can't stand Stan---but really can't tell you why.

Now, I'll hang up & listen. Should be interesting. 
« Last Edit: January 08, 2006, 12:08:40 am by silvertip »
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filthyswine

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2006, 12:14:16 am »

I just don't get the racism card.  Whenever I went to a game and Nolan was the coach, he got the loudest applause of anyone.  He was the biggest racist in Fayetteville.  If Stan were winning more, no-one would be griping. 
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silvertip

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2006, 12:32:00 am »

We have become better every year?!?!? Really!?!? Has our SEC record become drastically or even marginally better? No. Are we better in most SEC statistical categories? On a individual basis we have a couple of shining lights but as a team our stats have flatlined for four years. We have better athletes but that has not turned into "w"s. Any additional wins we have had have been non conference wins and against teams that are so bad that it's embarrassing to even have to mention their names. Make all the excuses you want. 4 years is plenty of time to find 5 boys who can beat a zone and hit free throws.
I agree with this 100%.  Your last statement says it all.  I've never been a "fire the bum" kind of guy, but any hard, realistic look at the basketball program reveals marginal improvement at best.

I don't care who the coach is, I just want to win.

So, what did you think of Tubby Smith's Kentucky team which lost to Kansas today by a score like 80-49 ? No doubt Tubby's got a lot dumber since he won that national title in '98, right? Hell, WE beat Kansas!!

So, you just want to win? You're winning now. Taintlint---you want to win more? We're doing a hell of alot better than Nolan's last team.

Goshenhog---so you've never been a "fire the coach" kind of guy? Just curious---if HDN's record gets below Heath's---then will you become a "don't fire HDN" kind of guy. Careful now, cause Heath's record is going up while HDN's record is going DOOWWNN.
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silvertip

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2006, 12:45:13 am »

I just don't get the racism card. Whenever I went to a game and Nolan was the coach, he got the loudest applause of anyone. He was the biggest racist in Fayetteville. If Stan were winning more, no-one would be griping.

I don't like the racism card either. But as Nolan might put it, Stan is doing just as good as HDN. Nolan was doing a hell of a lot better than HDN. So, why are Nolan & Stan getting a bunch of heat, when they are doing better than HDN? When, meanwhile, we have a whole universe of posters on here constantly singing the praises of & making excuses for HDN? I am a priviledged & educated white boy myself, but I just caint figger it out.
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silvertip

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2006, 01:02:46 am »

please, heath is the whitest black man in Arkansas. no offense... i am black...i am VERY dissapointed in this team. He has done part of what he was brought here to do..that is, represent the university amidst nolangate and restore some respect back to the program and WIN...he's done everything but WIN and in the end that's all that really matters.

Congrats. I'm the blackest white Hawg fan in Aladambama. So what?
You think Stan's done everything but win? So far, he's won more every year & winning more right now than that racist Nolan. Who knows how many games he will win this year? It will sure as hell be more than Nolan's last "team."

Yeah, winning is what matters. Nolan was winning less & less every year, hadn't won an NCAAT game in several years, & was "lucky" to force the U of A to give him his Golden Parachute. JJ Sullinger & Igoudala could not in your dreams have overcome the total lack of talent that Stan inherrted from that bitter & lazy old man.
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dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2006, 01:09:07 am »

Nice post Silver!
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CalHog

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2006, 01:34:13 am »

The vast majority of Hog fans welcomed and supported Nolan with open arms.  He did get off to a slow start until he got the players that fit his style of play, then he took us back to the level that Sutton had brought us. 
The racism that Nolan speaks of in the late 90's, what there was, was brought on by himself.  Poor little Nolan, everybody was picking on him.  This is when he started the racism s... and quit recruiting.  Yes he left the cupboard bare.
Stan can and will bring us back to the level we all feel we should be.  I still think he is the man, but I would like to see him be a little tougher.
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GoshenHog

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2006, 01:45:36 am »

Goshenhog---so you've never been a "fire the coach" kind of guy? Just curious---if HDN's record gets below Heath's---then will you become a "don't fire HDN" kind of guy. Careful now, cause Heath's record is going up while HDN's record is going DOOWWNN.
It's simple.
If Heath can't win, he should go; if Heath wins, he should stay.
If HDN can't win, he should go; if HDN wins, he should stay.
I believed the same for Eddie, Nolan, Ford, etc.
If Heath shows us he can win SEC games, I will support him.  If not, get someone in who can.
I will support the players regardless, but I'd much rather support winners.  I don't see this team being tough enough to win in the SEC.  I will happily eat my words in March if I'm proven wrong.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2006, 01:49:38 am by GoshenHog »
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Imminent Rueage

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2006, 02:09:58 am »

Good to see you back, taintlint. (not really) Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare? One word---YES.

I'm really pissed about tonight. But I'll tell you one thing, Mrs Richardson. Every year since Heath has been here has been better than what your old man left. Comprende?

Yeah, it's all creative criticism of Heath. You're full of crap as usual.

OK, Niels. You're better at research than I am. How about you back up your disastifaction with Heath by comparing his record with Nolan. Tell us how many NCAAT tourney games Nolan won from '98 thru '02 as compared to Stan's NCAAT record in Stan's first 4 years. I would really like to see those #s as I looked at that a year ago & as usual my memory is not good. Give us the #s, chief.

And then, how about you tell us about Nolan's record in his first 4 years in the pitiful SWC as compared to Stan's first 4 years in the almighty SEC.

It being 11:30 on Sat night & myself about about 5 beers & 3 shots of Jack Daniels into the wind---I'm just going to go ahead & quit tap-dancing around & say what I REALLY think. Do not take this personal Niels, as I am not talking about you.

The first couple of years when Nolan showed up, his teams were not that good & he was struggling with a daughter dying with leukemia. At that time, there were a lot of fans who would just not cut him any slack at all & said he could not hold a candle to Eddie Sutton. As far as I'm concerned a lot of that was racism.

Now, Heath can't do anything right in some people's mind, and as far as I'm concerned it's the same damn problem. I DESPISE Nolan's lawsuit claiming that racism led him to be treated more harshly than HDN. I am disgusted by Nolan's assertion that HDN was treated better than Nolan because of race.

But I will lay it right out on the line. I think that a lot of the criticism I see of Heath is pure & simple racism. I think a lot off the people razzin on Heath's ass right now are a lot of of the same people who were razzin on Nolan when he first got here. What Nolan correctly called "Redneck SOBs." And I don't even like Nolan. But I saw it then, and I see it now. Some of the same people who worship HDN now just can't stand Stan.

Make of it what you want. Not you, Niels. But there are a bunch of people around here who just can't stand Stan---but really can't tell you why.

Now, I'll hang up & listen. Should be interesting. 

Nolan's first four years:

1985-86 12-16; Yvonne Richardson sick with leukemia; No postseason
1986-87 19-14; Yvonne Richardson dies from complications of leukemia; Hogs go to NIT; barely eke out home win over Arkansas State in OT in first round before falling in second round on the road to Nebraska 78-71
1987-88 21-9; NCAA Tournament First Round
1988-89 25-7; SWC Overall Title and Tournament Title; NCAA Second Round

Nolan's Last Four Years:

1998-99 23-11; NCAA Second Round
1999-2000 19-15; NCAA First Round
2000-01 20-11; NCAA First Round
2001-02 14-15; No postseason

Stan Heath's First Four Years:

2002-03 9-19 No postseason
2003-04 12-16 No postseason
2004-05 18-12 NIT Invitation declined
2005-06 11-3*

First of all, I am a white man and I am married to an African-American woman. We have two kids. You claim that the same people that Nolan referred to as "redneck SOB"s" are the same people that want rid of Heath. Don't you dare call me a "Redneck SOB". I never criticized Nolan when his daughter was dying while the likes of John Robert Starr and Wally Hall did.  Race has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I think Stan Heath just can't get the job done. He walked into a very tough situation with Nolan's lawsuit and the lack of talent on the roster. Now, I won't speak for any other Arkansas fans, but I am quite sure that there is a very vocal group of people that don't like Stan Heath because of his race. I'm sure they didn't like Nolan either. Who the hell cares about those racist bastards? Stan Heath seems to be a very decent human being who graduates his players and that's the one thing Nolan didn't do.

Second, Nolan ran the program into the ground? Do you have any idea who was on the roster the day Eddie Sutton announced that he would "crawl all the way to Lexington"? These are Prince Eddie's players that Nolan inherited: Scott Rose, Andrew Lang, Stephan Moore, Allie Freeman, Kenny Hutchison, William Mills, Eric Poerschke, Mike Ratliff, Kevin Rehl, Jay Crane, and Darryl Scott. Wow!  :oThat's a Who's Who of all-time Razorbacks, huh?? The team that Heath inherited wasn't much better, but Nolan had inked Andre Igoudola and still had J.J. Sullinger. Sullinger transferred to Ohio State and Igoudola was granted his release after Nolan's unceremonious departure. Igoudola then went to Arizona for two years and was an NBA lottery selection. He also would have gotten Demario Eddins, who Mike Anderson got at UAB.

Third, Houston Nutt is about my least favorite person in the world right now. As a matter of fact, he never should have been hired in my opinion. He doesn't have the neccessities it takes to be a major-college football coach. I think Stan Heath does but he is in a no-win situation in Fayetteville. It's not because he's following a legend, that's BS. It's because of the circumstances surrounding that legend's dismissal and the stature that Nolan still has in many of the communities that produce great players. He is still highly regarded by many here in Memphis for example.

Lastly, the Southwest Conference of the 80's may not have been a powerhouse, but they weren't too darned bad either. Arkansas was the only school in the SWC that wasn't in Texas so all those Texas teams had a bullseye on the U of A. Houston and Texas were always NCAA Tourney contenders. Texas A & M, Baylor, Texas Tech and SMU always fielded dangerous teams with great athletes. They didn't have great coaches.

It's not that I can't stand Stan Heath. I just can't stand to see the Razorback basketball team wallow in mediocrity after the dizzying heights we had in the early and mid 90's. No, I wasn't happy with Nolan's program the last 5-6 years, but I think there were some underlying factors involved in the decline. The investigations of Jesse Pate and Sunday Adebayo were the beginning of the fall. Then, Nolan's take-no-BS style didn't set too well with this new generation of players, either.

Just a few facts and a lot of opinions. Disparage at your leisure.
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toshortrock

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2006, 02:39:53 am »

white or black health has no fire in his ass,but your right,u can;t fire him,u still have a nutt around losing all the time,
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Hawg414

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2006, 03:35:18 am »

Of course he did not. Nolan could have had retarded apes with asbestos mittens for hands on his final team and there would still be no excuse for losing 4 years later. Rebuilding?!?! We should have been reloading twice over now. I honestly do not recall who filled up Nolans last roster and where they so freakin bad that they would have caused us to lose to Miss. St. tonight? No more Heath apologists.

Obviously you can't can't remember Nolan's last roster who finished the year something like 14-16. Maybe you can't remember Nolan's "great" 16-14 team in 2000 which only got to the NCAAT by winning the SECT & promptly got bitch-slapped by a Miami team that actually had some meat on their bones.

I actually saw 2 of those games in Atlanta when the Hawgs ran the table in the SECT to get to the NCAAT after their pitiful losing season. It was so exciting to see all those young FR & Soph players like Dean, Gipson, Cleveland, Lane, Baker, & Satchell---who peaked on that wonderfull weekend & proceeded to steadily go down hill for the rest of their careers.

"No more Heath apologists" you say. I say no more of you Nolan-lovers who ignore his PITIFUL record in his last few years after ihheriting a very strong program from Eddie Sutton & running it into the ground by the time your hero Nolan left it desyroyed and in disgrace.

all you ever do is compare to nolans last year.  no, his last year was nothing to be proud of.  in fact, it was quite similar to heaths time here.  the difference is that nolans career spanned more than that last year, and somewhere during that time, he managed to squeeze in a hall-of-fame worthy career. 

heath on the other hand has shown no signs of the program going anywhere.  sure, you will point out his improving record... and i will point out it has been against nobodys.  you will point out that nolan left the cupboard bare... and i will point out that so did lanny van eman, and that while irrelevant, has just as much relevance as nolan does to this heath team in 2005-06.

bottom line is we are still losing, and it has nothing to do with nolan.  heath has had 4 years to show what he can do... and all we have discovered is that he can recruit players who look good on paper, but that he still cant muster up a W over an absolutely atrocious MS ST team that had lost at home to the same teams heath has padded his record against.  i guess we should be glad their 2 best players were out or else we may have been embarassed even moreso. 

spin it any way you like silver - we are going nowhere...and we are getting there fast!
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Hawg414

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2006, 03:41:31 am »

and for the record... i feel this way because i feel this way... not because i am white and he is black...as you seem to suggest for everyone who is not tickled to death with heaths overwhelming success. 
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lunchbox72703

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2006, 03:46:54 am »

The vast majority of Hog fans welcomed and supported Nolan with open arms. He did get off to a slow start until he got the players that fit his style of play, then he took us back to the level that Sutton had brought us.
The racism that Nolan speaks of in the late 90's, what there was, was brought on by himself. Poor little Nolan, everybody was picking on him. This is when he started the racism s... and quit recruiting. Yes he left the cupboard bare.
Stan can and will bring us back to the level we all feel we should be. I still think he is the man, but I would like to see him be a little tougher.


WRONG!!!!  Nolan faced racism from the beginning of his career for the first couple of years.   Lets face it...Arkansas was not as populated, or integrated as most other states.  The general idealism of the state was still stuck in the early 50's southern mentality.  Heck, I can remember when his horse got killed.  Fact of the matter is....this state showed it's ass to Nolan the first couple of years he was here.  Nolan in turn, showed his the last 5 years he was here.  The only good time was the mid 90's!!!  That was the only time that Nolan and the state seemed to be on the same page.  Now, In the end, I wanted Nolan gone, just like everyone else.....but I remember what the fan base did in his beginning....and it wasn't honorable.
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Hawg414

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2006, 04:06:01 am »

its too bad we have apparently reached a point where criticizing a black coach is considered racism. 
im almost certain some/most of our african american posters would like to see our basketball have a little more success than it is having under heath, regardless of whether the success was achieved by a black coach or a white coach. 

jeez people, i cant believe i am even typing this stuff.  i want our hogs to win!  regardless of who is coaching them!! 
i wasnt a racist when i fully and completely supported nolan 100% for a decade and a half... why am i suddenly a racist now? 
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Ched "UglyUncle" Carpenter

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2006, 04:08:26 am »

Lunch, we as a state owe Nolan an apology.  The things that were said about him, written about him was an embarrassment.  If you remember, his daughter was dying during that time also.  I remember thinking why would that guy stay here with a bunch of bigotted racist (I know, I am once again redundant) during this time. 

Nolan probably owes the state an apology for his last few years here and the way he acted.  But you are right, the stuff that happened in those first few years is something that too many people try to ignore or deny.  The man was hurting and we made it worse.
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Ched "UglyUncle" Carpenter

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2006, 04:12:06 am »

by the way 414...I am not saying that Heath is being criticised by you or any other fan because of racism.  Losing is unacceptable no matter what.  I am just saying that if Frank fired Heath now, it would be the perception of many that he does favor a white good ole boy coach over an African American coach.  Sadly, in recruiting as in other areas, perception is reality.
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Hawg414

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2006, 04:46:52 am »

by the way 414...I am not saying that Heath is being criticised by you or any other fan because of racism. Losing is unacceptable no matter what. I am just saying that if Frank fired Heath now, it would be the perception of many that he does favor a white good ole boy coach over an African American coach. Sadly, in recruiting as in other areas, perception is reality.

it probably would appear that way... and thats a damn shame.  i cannot for the life of me understand why nutt is still here...esPECially when davis was apparently waiting in the wings... yet i have to believe it is NOT merely bc he is white.  i have to think it has a lot more to do with the power struggles on the hill between JFB/JL/JW. 

but either way... comes a time when you have to refuse to be handcuffed by perceptions.  do i think nutt needed to go?  yes.  but do i think he has at least accepted enough suggestions that the program at least shows some promise for the first time in years?  yes.  and bc of that, im willing to give him his one more year to show what hes got.  but one more is it if its not really "special."

the difference with heath is i dont see any big changes on the horizon.  it pretty much is already as it is always gonna be.  and unfortunately for him, in basketball you can just bring in an offensive coordinator with huge upside in order to buy yourself another year.  i think nutt gets more time bc the football program is looking up IN SPITE of nutt... whereas the basketball program is in a roundtrip to nowhere
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Ched "UglyUncle" Carpenter

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2006, 04:59:29 am »

414:

what do you think it is with Heath?  Is it that he can't motivate?  Is it X's and O's?  It seems that he can recruit fairly well...I guess.  What is it that keeps him and thus us down (I told you I am cracking on this issue).

You are right on one issue.  The HC of a basketball team cannot just hide behind his assistants.  Good assistants help...but the HC of BB can't really be a CEO coach can he.  If Heath is not the man...then there is no place for him to run.
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Hawg414

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2006, 05:23:54 am »

414:

what do you think it is with Heath?  Is it that he can't motivate?  Is it X's and O's?  It seems that he can recruit fairly well...I guess.  What is it that keeps him and thus us down (I told you I am cracking on this issue).

You are right on one issue.  The HC of a basketball team cannot just hide behind his assistants.  Good assistants help...but the HC of BB can't really be a CEO coach can he.  If Heath is not the man...then there is no place for him to run.

i really dont know what it is about him.  what makes it difficult for me (and why i hung on for as long as i did) is that i really like the guy.  i genuinely, sincerely like stan heath as a man.  perhaps those traits that make me like him are the same traits that make him unsuccessful.  a coach needs to be a bit of a jackass.  players need to have a bit of fear of their coach.  fear is what motivates...rather than a "we'll get em next time" attitude.  yet heath has no fire.

as for Xs and Os... hey, im not a basketball coach and i dont pretend to be one.  but here is my thought on Xs and Os:  what i liked most about the hawgball we have been accustomed to around here for 15 years is that the style of play gave us a chance to win against anyone.  if you had superior talent...thats fine...bc we arent gonna let you use it the way you want to use it.  sometimes it went the other way and we could lose to anybody on any given night.  thats fine too... bc at least it was entertaining as hell to watch, and in the end, we won more than we lost.  a lot more. 

yet with a standard Xs and Os coach... every team is the same... every team is trying to do the same things...accomplish the same goals...and now it just becomes a matter of who has the better players.  you lose the sense of feeling like you have a chance to win no matter what.  we can play uconn and duke and whomever 20 times this year... and we are gonna lose 20 times.  yet with the more "creative" style of play, we could beat any of those teams on any given night.  i just dont see heath presenting the type of team who will win too many games as an underdog. 

to steal a phrase from an old friend of mine... just as mccurdy has"it," i think heath lacks "it." 
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silvertip

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2006, 08:06:03 pm »

and for the record... i feel this way because i feel this way... not because i am white and he is black...as you seem to suggest for everyone who is not tickled to death with heaths overwhelming success.

I did not in any way, shape, or form suggest that "everyone" unhappy with Heath has racial motivations. Go find something else to whine about.
I was not thinking about Hawg414 or any other particular poster nor did I mention anyone by name, you poor little baby.
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Rayzor

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2006, 08:11:52 pm »

Heath got a better team than Nolan was handed.  The problem is the style of play.  Slow down ball does not fit this team.  Like him or not, Nolan could take this group and win.

Even when this team wins its pretty boring to watch!!
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taintlint

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2006, 08:30:03 pm »

Heath got a better team than Nolan was handed. The problem is the style of play. Slow down ball does not fit this team. Like him or not, Nolan could take this group and win.

Even when this team wins its pretty boring to watch!!

That sums this entire thread up. I can not think of a single teenager that would for even 3 seconds of his entire young life ever dream of going off to college and playing some of the slowest, most boring, non fundamentally sound, winless basketball known to man. Regardless, Heath somehow talks these kids into coming to UA but once they get here, it's like trying to put a square peg into a triangle hole. Like it or not, the days of strong fundamentals and slow paced basketball are over. Not many kids now can play defense and they damn sure can't handle basic offensive fundamentals. With that said, Nolan or Mike Anderson could take this exact same group of kids and blow some opposing teams flat out of the gym. They would simply recognize their strengths and go from there. These kids could press that court all night long, would enjoy it by the way, and be much more successful if only given the chance. Heath chooses to force a style of play on these players that just wont work. Heath likes to be Mr. Nice Guy and conservative, and that's ok, but at the same time we will have to expect similar results year in and year out.
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silvertip

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2006, 08:35:27 pm »

dhornjr1, don't give me you self-pitying, "Don't you dare call me a redneck SOB" indignation. No one said a damn thing about you, & for the record, I have zero interest in what color your wife is.

You want to compare Nolan's & Heath's records?  Okay, let's do that:

Nolan's FIRST 4 years---ONE NCAAT win. ONE NIT win vs almighty ArkSt. One SWC title.
Nolan's LAST 4 years---ONE NCAAT win. One SECtourny title, zero SEC titles.

Now, Stan in his FIRST 3 years has ONE NIT invite. (and I really sincerely believe we could have beat Ark St)

Now, in Stan's 4th year, all he has to get is ONE NCAAT win to equal Nolan's NCAAT success in either Nolan's First 4 years OR his Last 4 years. Should Stan actually get a whopping TWO NCAAT wins this year, he would equal Nolan's NCAAT success in those EIGHT YEARS combined.

About the players Nolan got from Sutton? Andrew Lang had a very good & long  NBA career. Allie Freeman, Kenny Hutchison, William Mills, Stephan Moore, and Eric Poerschke were each & every one better than anyone Heath inherited. Heath took the basket cases that finished -8.5 RB margin in Nolan's last year & turned that into +5.5 RB margin the next year.

You can discount the damage that Nolan did all you want. Fact is, Nolan had a much easier time (player wise) than Heath had to start & Nolan is exactly the reason why. Now, Heath can equal Nolan's first four years, or last four years, with a whopping ONE NCAAT win. If Heath stayed 15 years, does anyone think the program would be such a disaster at that time?

My conclusion is that Heath has done a better job in his first 4yrs than Nolan did.
And my conclusion is that SOME of the people giving Heath a hard time are SOME of the same ones that did it to Nolan for the SAME reason.
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camelt

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2006, 08:38:18 pm »

I smell what your cookin tip.  The sky is not falling.  We missed some freethrows, thats all.  We need 4-5 conference road wins and to take care of business at home to win the west. 
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taintlint

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2006, 08:42:19 pm »

dhornjr1, don't give me you self-pitying, "Don't you dare call me a redneck SOB" indignation. No one said a damn thing about you, & for the record, I have zero interest in what color your wife is.

You want to compare Nolan's & Heath's records? Okay, let's do that:

Nolan's FIRST 4 years---ONE NCAAT win. ONE NIT win vs almighty ArkSt. One SWC title.
Nolan's LAST 4 years---ONE NCAAT win. One SECtourny title, zero SEC titles.

Now, Stan in his FIRST 3 years has ONE NIT invite. (and I really sincerely believe we could have beat Ark St)

Now, in Stan's 4th year, all he has to get is ONE NCAAT win to equal Nolan's NCAAT success in either Nolan's First 4 years OR his Last 4 years. Should Stan actually get a whopping TWO NCAAT wins this year, he would equal Nolan's NCAAT success in those EIGHT YEARS combined.

About the players Nolan got from Sutton? Andrew Lang had a very good & long NBA career. Allie Freeman, Kenny Hutchison, William Mills, Stephan Moore, and Eric Poerschke were each & every one better than anyone Heath inherited. Heath took the basket cases that finished -8.5 RB margin in Nolan's last year & turned that into +5.5 RB margin the next year.

You can discount the damage that Nolan did all you want. Fact is, Nolan had a much easier time (player wise) than Heath had to start & Nolan is exactly the reason why. Now, Heath can equal Nolan's first four years, or last four years, with a whopping ONE NCAAT win. If Heath stayed 15 years, does anyone think the program would be such a disaster at that time?

My conclusion is that Heath has done a better job in his first 4yrs than Nolan did.
And my conclusion is that SOME of the people giving Heath a hard time are SOME of the same ones that did it to Nolan for the SAME reason.

I totally understand your logic and what you say is making sense. Regardless, is all future success based on a 4 year grace period? Should our next football coach get AT LEAST 8 years to prove himself? What if it had taken Nolan 10 years to turn out wins? Would that be the measuring stick? Sure, if Nolan and his timetable of success is the measuring standard, then Heath should stay. That is simply not the case though. Changes should be made without refering to how long it took your PREVIOUS coach.
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djgaffer

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2006, 08:44:23 pm »

Quote
The problem is the style of play.  Slow down ball does not fit this team.

Heath doesn't want to slow this team down.  If you pay attention to the staff, they are constantly telling the team to push the ball up the floor.  The difficulty is that in order to play up tempo, you have to defend and get rebounds, and this team still goes extended periods where they don't do either at a good enough rate.

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taintlint

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2006, 08:45:00 pm »

I smell what your cookin tip. The sky is not falling. We missed some freethrows, thats all. We need 4-5 conference road wins and to take care of business at home to win the west.

The sky is not falling because you are in outer space and it's already a mile beneath your feet. Something tells me that if you wrote checks to the Foundation and actually bought season tickets you might place a higher value on some "Missed Free Throws" and 2 SEC road wins in the past 4 million years.
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Oklahawg

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2006, 08:47:00 pm »

Nolan left a LOT more talent behind for Heath than he inherited from Eddie. Sullinger, Iggy, Modica...that's as good a top 3 as anything Heath has had, current team included.

I had the privilege of meeting Nolan early in his UA career, spent some time with him on out-of-town hoops trips. He's a kind, caring, gentle man...who never tolerated racism on any terms. Remember, he had a Mexican grandmother! Do you folks remember the story of the prominent UA booster who sent the letter to Nolan after the NC in 94, the one that shared she was pulling her families financial support of the basketball program because the NC was tainted by that N----- being the coach. What about his farm animals being spray painted with racist words? Nolan was proud of who he was, proud of what he had accomplished, and deserved to NOT be baited into going off the deep end. Hey, you push any of us hard enough, for a long enough period of time, and we'll snap, too. No one knows what he endured.

That said, I can't condone his backlash at the University. He can say what he wants about the people, but the University stood with him more often than not. They welcomed a black HC when that just didn't happen in the South and stood behind him those first few years when they could have bailed on him. He should have remembered that, and worked harder behind the scenes to mend the fences that needed mending.

Nolan found people to rebound--Lenzy Howell, Nicky Davis. Nolan found point guards that NO ONE else wanted, and turned them into fine players. He found pure scorers, or at the least versatile playmakers, and created sets to get them the ball so they could do their thing. I'd love to see Brewer in Nolan's double post set at the free throw line, the one used by Todd Day and later Scotty Thurman and even later by Sullinger to create opportunities.

Nolan never accepted laziness on the court.

Nolan was wearing out late in his career, but also he was learing to be an administrator. He was delegating authority to a great assistant, Mike Anderson. I didn't think Anderson had it in him to be a plus HC in NCAA level play. He is. Anderson would have put Heath's second team in the NIT, probably deep in the run to NYC, and would have been in the NCAA last year. He'd have this bunch in the top 15 right now.

For those who like to compare, Heath is a shadow of what Nutt is as a coach. And, the hired-gun assistant has not had the impact for Heath that Herring had for Nutt this year. Watch:  Heath will have Ronnie Brewer (one of the 5 greatest Hogs since his Daddy played for Sutton) and not one NCAA tourney game to show for it. Totally inexcuseable. The Showplace of NW Arkansas will be a very quiet place for a very long time.
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taintlint

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #47 on: January 08, 2006, 08:48:54 pm »

Quote
The problem is the style of play. Slow down ball does not fit this team.

Heath doesn't want to slow this team down. If you pay attention to the staff, they are constantly telling the team to push the ball up the floor. The difficulty is that in order to play up tempo, you have to defend and get rebounds, and this team still goes extended periods where they don't do either at a good enough rate.



I understand and agree with you to an extent. I believe those coaches are yelling at them to push the ball because if they don't beat the other team down the court they are screwed. They simply can't attack a 2-3 zone. They just can't do it. That will be the death of them all season long. Defensive pressure? Does not exsist. Sure, they will press a little but as soon as the heat gets turned up and Heath catches back up from 10 points down, he goes back into his shell.
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wishyjoshy

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #48 on: January 08, 2006, 08:50:36 pm »

I didn't like Nolan when he was here and I still don't like him now.  AFter the 1994 Championship he brought pretty much NO ONE in.  He got lucky with Joe Johnson.  But there was no one there to support Joe.  Nolan took a team from an NCAA title to the lowest the basketball team had been in more than 10 years.  Who were the great recruits he picked up after the 1994 Championship?  TJ Cleveland, Jason Jennings, Gilbert, Hankins, Jessie Pate, Charles Tatum, Carl Baker?  We haven't a good post player since Corliss and we haven't had anyone control the team and give us the ability to run an offense since Coery Beck.  I have been dissappointed (until this year) more by the basketball team than the football.  Last year was even and this year maybe even again, but basketball would have to really suck this year.
Anyone come up with any names of players that were the type of players schools get after winning a National Title?  I'd like to remember who they were.
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djgaffer

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Re: Did Nolan really leave the cupboard this bare?!!?
« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2006, 08:50:55 pm »

Quote
Nolan left a LOT more talent behind for Heath than he inherited from Eddie. Sullinger, Iggy, Modica

I don't think it's safe to include Sullinger and Iguodala in the talent that was "left for Heath".  Nolan's relationships with that family left no chance of either of those guys staying around for Stan.  As soon as they moved on, the only backcourt player left on campus was Blake Eddins who's a fine kid but can't play two guard spots by himself.

I appreciate the rest of your post Okla.... 
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