Now hopefully the Charlie Weiss "LOVEFEST" will finally end

[pfrg999]

No need to Bag on ND... You guys have made some valid points... But we would not be bagging in them if it weren't for MM... Well that's not entirly true... I never cared for them before weis got there... But I like 9-3 getter than 4-7... But HDN did win with Ford's Players...Like Stoops won with Blakes players...

[pfrg999]

Just like the rest of upper level d1 FB, it is all about $$$$$$$$$$. Nd brings big crowds and big ratings, plain and simple. THey will almost always be ranked pre season top 20, which makes it easier for them to get into the bcs, even losing 2 games, than it is for most teams to only lose 1 and make it. Plus, with no conference title to play for, they do not have to worry about someone else taking thir automatic bid like in the SEC or Big 12 or the ACC this year witha 7-4 FSU team getting the ACC bid.

ND gets ALL the breaks... Becuz they are ND... and there are alot of golden domers that the rules...... and FSU 7-4 BCS bound is crap... It should be 1 VS 2 , 3 vs 4, 5 vs 6 and so on... and if 2 are left Undefeated they should play ... JMHO

[proffitthog]

I hate Nortre Dame. They could win two games and be ranked 5th.

[The_Bionic_Pig]

All I can say pfrg99 is TY Willingham went 10-3 in his first season, but what was most remembered was the absolute implosion after demolition of them.

This year, Weiss did the following things very well in year one.

1)HE REESTABLISHED THE RECRUITING FOUNDATION...That will be critical for them to be successful at a higher level.
2)HE GOT INTEREST BACK IN THE ND PROGRAM...I am sure that made NBC happy as the rankings for Irish football had languished as the teams fortunes changed under the Davie & Willingham regimes.
3)HE AVOIDED EMBARASSING DEFEATS..Tonight was NOT an embarassment. Maybe some of that was due to the Buckeyes ineffectiveness in the Redzone. It was also because ND came up with some plays to keep them in the game.

3A)WHAT LAST NIGHT SHOWED THE IRISH...There is still a gap between them and the higher level programs in college ball. That has to do with 1)Defensive speed AND 2)Gamebreakers on offense.

Some other things:

The Irish folks have to take the entire season on balance. The schedule set up PERFECTLY for them to have at least a bounceback year. It showed that Weis could come in and restore order..THAT'S ALL FINE & GOOD. Taking it to the NEXT LEVEL  in the college ranks is a function of doing somethings that Charlie WILL HAVE TO ADJUST TO.

1)DEVELOP A DEFENSE. The Irish simply didn't solve the defensive issues this year. Maybe their call for Minter's dismissal isn't just anger or desparation. WHAT WEIS IS GONNA HAVE TO DO IS TURN THAT AREA OVER TO SOMEONE HE HAS 100% TRUST & CONFIDENCE IN..Whether that is the current guy, I don't know. Can't totally evaluate.

2)GET OVER YOURSELF..Notice that the 1st half changed a ton when Charlie stubbornly tried to run the ball thru a brick wall defense? Charlie may be a creative genius, he certainly can develop QB's. I believe that. Talking about creating advantages for your team with schemes is one thing. Running the ball stubbornly 3 times in 4 tries deep in Buckeye territory ESPECIALLY LATERALLY WITH A RUNNING BACK WHO DOESN'T POSSESS Reggie Bush / D-MAC pure lateral speed, and against a great linebacker corps, ISN'T SCHEMATIC ADVANTAGE. IT IS STUBBORNESS. Especially given the talent differential he was fighting against. (Glad Gus is aboard)

Bottom line:
All the other 7 bowl losses aren't on Charlie, so #8 in a row only is rejoiceful for SC & ND's other rivals. Last night showed you again that Weis knows how to prepare a team, NOW CAN HE ADAPT HIS STYLE, AND GROW HIS PROGRAM? That is a bigger question. The most honest Irish fan might concede that one. IT ISN'T A KNOWN QUANTITY. I do think this is the guy who can lead them into the Top 5 & beyond to the National Title. He is gonna half to do it with MORE THAN AN IMPRESSIVE NFL RESUME THOUGH.

[pikehog]

Let's not forget that but for an illegal play that the officals were to chickenpoop to throw a flag on for fear of ending USC's impressive run, they would have ended undefeated streak........

Because for as great as Reggie Bush is, pushing your quarterback is against the rules.

And if Clint Stoener doesn't fumble in the last 2 minutes of the Tennessee Game in Knoxville Arkansas is probably in the Fiesta Bowl - what is the difference.

Do you guys really think that Arkansas is better than ND?

Hell no not even close, The Irish are on another level - even though they turned into Texas Tech (pass all the time -3 step drop) in or to move the ball .

Hell Nutt and UA looked horrible all season and could not even make it to a bowl.

I agree all the way up until the South Carolina Game when Casey Dick made his first start.

Difference would be think Clint did not break any rules in a fumble.

Big difference, blowing a game with a boneheaded play

or

Losing a game because an offical does not want to implement a hard and fast rule.

[DukeOfPork]

Seriously, you guys should review ND's schedule. 

I had bought into the the "ND revival" that the press has been selling ever since the Michigan win.  But Michigan had their worst team in 30 years this year and ND barely beat them. 

In fact, you would be hard pressed to find a team that ND beat this year that you could say "that was a good team".


9/3 at Pittsburgh W 42-21
9/10 at Michigan W 17-10
9/17 Michigan St L 44-41 OT
9/24 at Washington W 36-17
10/1 at Purdue W 49-28
10/15 USC L 34-31
10/22 BYU W 49-23
11/5 Tennessee W 41-21
11/12 Navy W 42-21
11/19 Syracuse W 34-10
11/26 at Stanford W 38-31
1/2 Fiesta Bowl
Ohio State L 34-20


Several of those teams are just awful and nearly all of them had uncharacteristically bad years.  The loss to USC was really the only impressive showing now that we all know that Michigan and Tennessee had their worst teams in decades.

[The_Bionic_Pig]

80% of their tough games (In Bold) are in SOUTH BEND -

Penn State
Michigan
Purdue
Stanford (replacing Tennessee Vols)
UCLA
North Carolina (replacing Washington Huskies)

Away games - Georgia Tech, Navy, Air Force. (probable wins)
Away games - Michigan St, Southern Cal (tough games)

[clemensrules01]

I know a lot of people are in love with weis. one quote that is getting a lot of positive attention on hogville is the one in which he said he was dissapointed to not be playing in the national championship.  dumb move. for such a genius, you wonder how he could put his own team in the wrong state of mind by saying something like that. it gave ohio state a mental advantage. it could have cost him the game.


i personally think weis is a great coach, but i think he has a bigger ego than notre dame.  when asked if he thought ohio state would be the toughest d they had played all year, weis responded "have you seen tennessee's d?" instead of complimenting the ohio state d. once again, he game his team a mental disadvantage.  he answered the question in a way that makes me think he was angry at the reporter for even THINKING that he could face an ohio state d that could give the great charlie weis problems.

my opinion: charlie weis is overrated, just like the "greatness" of notre dame. how many bowl games has notre dame lost in a row? 8

[CorningHog]

Yeah,

I thought it was quite amusing and enjoyable to see them lose since they were the "darling" of the 2005 season due to Charlie.  I would like to think those players had as much to do with it as Charlie did.  Notre Dame had a nice team, but what poetic justice to see Ohio States offense outshine the "genius".

[sowmonella]

A friend in Minneapolis told me their was a lot of talk about Weis to the Vikes or the Packers.

[razorback4life]

I may be wrong but did any of you guys realize that ND only beat 2 teams this year with a winning record? 

[Thehammer]

A friend in Minneapolis told me their was a lot of talk about Weis to the Vikes or the Packers.

Weiss just signed a lucrative 10 year contract with ND.  He's not overrated as some of you think.   He was an OC for one of the best head coaches in the NFL.  Further - -  he coached in that same capacity in three Super Bowls.   He's not going anywhere.   Right now, he and Pete Carroll may be the best two college football coaches in America.   

Weiss took the same team that Willingham had last year and came within an eye lash of beating USC this season.   By the same token, he took Brady Quinn, who mediocre to say the least and transformed him into a wonderful passing qb.  The guy knows his stuff. 

I've never been a ND fan.   I'm still not.  But to hate on the man because he lost to OSU, who's team speed on offense was too much for ND's less talented defense, seems a bit trite and childish to me.

In one breath a poster states he's overrated.  In the same, another says he's being considered for an NFL head coaching job. 

Neither is true. 

[BigoBoys]

Yes, ND is probably slightly overrated, but what's your point? They're still much better than the Hogs are right now.

I am not comparing them to anyone.  My point is that because they don't play in a conference is difficult to measure how good they really are. 

[Central_Tiger04]

ND is Overrated and I will not waver on that at all.  I think that CW is an offensive mastermind but I dont like his motivation methods (Pouting about not playing in the NC game).  Just because they almost beat USC means What?  Nothin!!!! ND almost lost to Stanford and Stanford lost to UC Davis.  Does that mean UC Davis can beat ND.  I dont think so.  ND played a soft schedule:  (The Hogs would have went bowling with this schedule.

at #23 Pittsburgh W 42-21

09/10 at #3 Michigan W 17-10

09/17 Mich St L 44-41

09/24 at Washington W 36-17

10/01 at #22 Purdue W 49-28

10/15 #1 USC L 34-31

10/22 BYU W 49-23

11/05 Tennessee W 41-21

11/12 Navy W 42-21

11/19 Syracuse W 34-10

11/26 at Stanford W 38-31

01/02 vs #4 Ohio St L 34-20

[Thehammer]

ND is Overrated and I will not waver on that at all. I think that CW is an offensive mastermind but I dont like his motivation methods (Pouting about not playing in the NC game). Just because they almost beat USC means What? Nothin!!!! ND almost lost to Stanford and Stanford lost to UC Davis. Does that mean UC Davis can beat ND. I dont think so. ND played a soft schedule: (The Hogs would have went bowling with this schedule.

at #23 Pittsburgh W 42-21

09/10 at #3 Michigan W 17-10

09/17 Mich St L 44-41

09/24 at Washington W 36-17

10/01 at #22 Purdue W 49-28

10/15 #1 USC L 34-31

10/22 BYU W 49-23

11/05 Tennessee W 41-21

11/12 Navy W 42-21

11/19 Syracuse W 34-10

11/26 at Stanford W 38-31

01/02 vs #4 Ohio St L 34-20

The two teams at had at least one opponent in common.  USC.  We gave up 70 points and Carroll could've run up a hundred if he'd wanted to. 

I don't waver from my statement either.  I don't which is worse.  Weiss' alledged pouting that you alluded to or;  Nutt's constant excuse making. 

On second thought, I do know which is worse. 

[Broken Trigger]

ND is a good team, but not as good as they get made out to me.  All i know is that since 2003, i have came to like Ohio State.  First they beat Miami and now ND, two of the teams that i can't stand.  I thoroughly enjoyed watching them dominate Notre Dame yesterday.

[The_Bionic_Pig]

I notice others are coming out!!! http://www.hogville.net/yabbse/index.php?topic=41529.0

[camelt]

Yes, ND is probably slightly overrated, but what's your point? They're still much better than the Hogs are right now.

Here is a point for you...   Young teams with young QB's lose close games PERIOD.  Throw in top 5 schedules for the last two years for the Hogs; you have a recipe for a losing season. 

The reason ND was better this year is that Quinn didn't lose games for them this year.  He matured and learned how to manage a game.  The same goes for Bama, they had a SR QB is Croyle.  Bama will absolutely be a lower tear SEC team next year.  The hogs will shell them in Fayetteville on 06. 

Folks, I have said it before.... there is not much difference in the caliber of atheletes in the starting 22 of the top 40 teams in D-1.  Every now and then there will be a loaded team that out classes everyone the play (USC), but typically big time college football comes down to who has the most upperclassmen, who has an experienced QB, and who doesn't turn the ball over.  Most big time D-1 games are lost rather than won. 

The sky is not falling. 

Love,
Cameltoe

[Central_Tiger04]

Moral Victory and another Moral victory and another:  When do you look in the mirror and say "I REALLY SUCK!!" as, Jim Mora would say.


Back to Weiss.

I dont dislike the man 1 bit but he need to really work on how to handle the media and his body language. 

But on another note TY had a better Record in his first season with Coach Davie players and the
teams that he played were better. 

His first year team played great D

Never got the Credit he deserved.

[PulledPork]

if there is any bitchin to be done, it should be about FSU-E being in the bcs game tonite!  They have hade there ass handed to them more times than ND, maybe those two should have been reversed in their respective games.....

[DukeOfPork]

Moral Victory and another Moral victory and another: When do you look in the mirror and say "I REALLY SUCK!!" as, Jim Mora would say.


Back to Weiss.

I dont dislike the man 1 bit but he need to really work on how to handle the media and his body language.

But on another note TY had a better Record in his first season with Coach Davie players and the
teams that he played were better.

His first year team played great D

Never got the Credit he deserved.

Yep, Ty took Davie's 5-6 ND team and went 10-3 in Year One.  The entire national press was absolutely on his jock the whole year, lavishing him with praise ad nauseum.

What you have to understand is that the national press just gushes every time Notre Dame has a sliver of success.  At this point, Weis hasn't accomplished what Willingham accomplished in his first year.

[10thPlanet]

Well here's a response for the Huggers. See if this sounds familiar?  Just wait till Weis gets HIS recruits there or how bout this one?"NEXT YEAR IS GONNA BE SPECIAL!"

[NotreDame95]

Some of you guys are a riot and Bigo, your hatred for ND is so strong I can feel it. Calm down there big boy! LOL. As someone else stated in this thread, ND actually did overachieve this season. Going in I was thinking that 7-4 would be a nice step in the right direction and was thinking it would be more like 6-5. Hell, even Corso and Mark May predicted we would start out 0-6!! Did a couple other teams deserve to be in the Fiesta Bowl ahead of us? Possibly. ANd those of you bashing Weis are dead wrong. He is going to be that good. To most ND fans, wins and losses aside, it is just very exciting to see the unbelievable amount of improvement from Ty to Charlie. We had NO offensive identity at all under Ty. It was a joke. Right now we just don't have the defense to be a championship team, but that is coming. We played 5 teams in the preseason top 25 and 3 of the top 5. Can we help it that they didn't live up to their hype? Nope. And we won't apologize for it either. This season just showed that ND is finally headed in the right direction. Fiesta Bowls are nice and all but this season wasn't a sweat to me. I am just happy with where we are going now. Next year will be the start of something special. Bigo's obvious blind hatred, where he refuses to listen to any logical thought, is comical actually. Now next season we start out with Ga. Tech, Michigan, Penn St, Mich. St, and Purdue. We also play UCLA and USC along with weaker games in Army, Navy, Stanford and North Carolina. I would say that looks like a respectable schedule now, but if the Penn States,  Michigans and UCLAs don't live up to their hype again, I guess we will hear how "weak" our schedule is then too! WHATEVER. Don't lose any sleep over it BigoBoys!! Count to 10 and calm down or something. You are making a fool of yourself.

[NotreDame95]

And dkwvike, be sarcastic now and see who is laughing later. CW has already shown what a recruiter he is with this year's top 5 haul. I don't want to offend the decent UA people here but where are you?? I know one team that next year definitely won't be "special" for.

[NotreDame95]

TheHammer, what are you smoking??? Weis pouted about not being in the NC game?? WHat are you talking about. That is a ridiculous lie. All he said was that it was his fault that they didn't win the two games they lost by 3 points each!! Said he blew it in those 2 games and that he should be worth at least 3 points. What's "pouty" about that?!!! Get your s**t straight you liar. You are absolutely full of it and pulling crap out of the thin air. Nice try.

[NotreDame95]

PorkPariah you are also CLUELESS. To compare Ty to Weis a total laugher. In Ty's first 4 games ND did not score an offensive TD!! THey had no O at all under him and lucked out to 8 straight wins with defense alone. Even then ND fans didn't feel like it was the real deal. The direction they are taking now and the overall improvement under Weis is very apparent to anyone that has 2 brain cells in their head. Ty was terrible. That first season was with Ty we lucked out a few times and won with defense alone. If we had the '02 defense this year we would be playing Texas tonight without a doubt.

[jkstock04]

Some of you guys are a riot and Bigo, your hatred for ND is so strong I can feel it. Calm down there big boy! LOL. As someone else stated in this thread, ND actually did overachieve this season. Going in I was thinking that 7-4 would be a nice step in the right direction and was thinking it would be more like 6-5. Hell, even Corso and Mark May predicted we would start out 0-6!! Did a couple other teams deserve to be in the Fiesta Bowl ahead of us? Possibly. ANd those of you bashing Weis are dead wrong. He is going to be that good. To most ND fans, wins and losses aside, it is just very exciting to see the unbelievable amount of improvement from Ty to Charlie. We had NO offensive identity at all under Ty. It was a joke. Right now we just don't have the defense to be a championship team, but that is coming. We played 5 teams in the preseason top 25 and 3 of the top 5. Can we help it that they didn't live up to their hype? Nope. And we won't apologize for it either. This season just showed that ND is finally headed in the right direction. Fiesta Bowls are nice and all but this season wasn't a sweat to me. I am just happy with where we are going now. Next year will be the start of something special. Bigo's obvious blind hatred, where he refuses to listen to any logical thought, is comical actually. Now next season we start out with Ga. Tech, Michigan, Penn St, Mich. St, and Purdue. We also play UCLA and USC along with weaker games in Army, Navy, Stanford and North Carolina. I would say that looks like a respectable schedule now, but if the Penn States, Michigans and UCLAs don't live up to their hype again, I guess we will hear how "weak" our schedule is then too! WHATEVER. Don't lose any sleep over it BigoBoys!! Count to 10 and calm down or something. You are making a fool of yourself.

The reason people get pissed about Notre Dame is because of the way the media automatically kisses their ass no matter what....kinda like Texas and Tennessee.  I thought Notre Dame was overrated this year, but they did have a big improvement...and of course taking Southern Cal to the wire was impressive.  But it just seems to me every year teams like Texas, Notre Dame, Tennessee can move up in the ranks much easier than Arkansas...for instance, if Notre Dame won a couple of games in a row they'd probably jump up in the top 25 ranks considerably...if Arkansas won a couple in a row we probably wouldn't get jack...they wouldn't move us up unless they absolutley had to.  Thats the way I feel about it....

[hawkeyefan17]

Why critisise Notre Dame for not being in a conference? They never have been and more than likely never will be in football.

Notre Dame schedules are always tough. They play Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, USC and Navy every year. They scheduled Tennessee who has traditionally had a top 10 progam over the years. Pittsbugh, Washington, Stanford, Syracuse and BYU all have respectable programs that have had great years in the past. When you talk about Notre Dame you must consider history. Since Notre Dame does their football schedules so far out you must consider the history of the progams that they schedule. It is very plausible that when Notre Dame scheduled many of the schools that were on their schedule this year those schools programs looked a lot different then.

So most of the schools on Notre Dame's schedule had a down year this year. They can't control the state of their opponents when they play them, they just have to play who is currently on their schedule. As for Notre Dame's recuriting, Notre Dame will be fine in the recruiting area with Weis at the helm, his Super Bowl rings speak volumes.

Notre Dame is back, I don't like them but they are going to be very good under Charlie Weis.

[PulledPork]

the irony to all of this is, most teams would schedule ND to prove their worth "nationally", yet the other way around and ND is playing a "weak schedule".......hmmmmmm

[hogsanity]

ND played a weak schedule, in part, because many teams that should have been good were not.  Pitt and Purdue were both ranked when the season started.   WHy Pitt was ranked is beyond me, but Purdue was supposed to be great this year.  You cant blame ND for other teams stinking.  These schedules are made years in advance. 

Kinda like the Hog BB team.  Usually playing and beating Texas Tech Kansas and Mizzu would be a big deal, but this year all 3 of those teams are average at best.  Is that Stans fault? 

[corndo]

I didn't realize until the other day that ND has not won a bowl game since 1994 and have lost eight in a row (13-13 overall). It's interesting to note that after they played their first bowl game in 1925, they did not play in another one until 1970. I guess being an independent used to be a major disadvantage. - I guess a "stellar" bowl record is at least one thing we share in common with ND.