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Started by mizzouman, December 12, 2005, 10:59:26 am

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mizzouman

This Saturday, the Texas Class 5A II championship game will be televised at noon.  If you want to see how a high school spread offense looks like, please watch Southlake Carroll run it.  Malzahn does not, by far, have a monopoly on this offense AND is probably not even the best coach to coach it in the South.  Coach Dodge at Carroll IS the best at it.  Also, Carroll won state last year
going undefeated and is currently 15-0. 

The point here is that Malzahn WILL NOT bring anything new to college football or even the SEC.  College defenses know how to stop the spread and to think Malzahn is the savior is ridiculous.  Nutt will need to make it to a bowl game next year or loose his job.  Bring in a brand new offense without the players who can execute it, the Razorbacks will be very, very, very lucky to make it to a bowl game next year.  Therefore, Nutt secured his firing by hiring Malzahn.  This offense may work our for Arkansas but will take a couple of years.  If anything, he made the change a year or two too late.

dotnet

December 12, 2005, 11:06:32 am #1 Last Edit: December 12, 2005, 11:12:13 am by dotnet
Just because Arkansas hasn't run it, it doesn't mean they don't have the players to. We have three quick wr's, and another big one.  This isn't counting who we bring in this year as freshman.  Our qb, no matter who it is, played in a spread offense in high school; and our o-line is barely held together to begin with.

You're right about Dodge.  He is one of the smartest high school coaches I have ever seen, and though no one from Arkansas would admit it, he is at least as smart as Gus.  I think his son is a sophomore this year.  After his son graduates, I think he'll make the jump to Div I.  I think he could start somewhere small as the head coach if he wanted, or maybe somewhere big as the OC. 

To try to put it in prospective, Texas will have at least 100 guys go and play Div I.  Arkansas will have 10 maybe.  Dodge's team is in the championship game for the third year in a row in the biggest class in Texas.  On top of that, he hasn't had the most Div I talent in the state (or even close) ever.  The guy can coach.  (Note: I'm not comparing the two with this statement, that would be unfair since they're not in the same situation.  I'm just making the point that Dodge can coach.)

What I think you're missing is what Gus does bring to the table.  He brings someone who can read defenses and create an offensive game plan based one what the defense gives you.  We will have someone who is dedicated to calling plays, and not doing fifty things at once and burning timeouts in the process.  We haven't had this before, so I think the addition (though he may not necessarily be the greatest high school coach in the country) helps.

 

3kgthog

Gee, do you think the guy at a 5A Texas school might have some talent to work with? That might have something to do with his offense looking great. Duh.

No Hog fans are saying Malzahn is going to bring anything new to the SEC or to college football. What we ARE saying is that Malzahn will bring something new to Razorback football. You see, completing a pass longer than 10 yards would be a new thing for us so hopefully Gus will bring that.

And it's LOSE not LOOSE.

geoffhog

Just out of curiousity, what makes you think Dodge runs it better than Malzahn? Take a look at the National High School recordbook. Its littered with teams and players Gus has coached.
"I was born to be a Razorback." -Darren Mcfadden

CiriusPorker

I'm glad we have a 20 post expert starting a thread like this.  I agree with Geoff.  You're from MO, how would you know anything about anything in Texas.

Snarlton

Quote from: 3kgthog on December 12, 2005, 11:08:21 am
And it's LOSE not LOOSE.

Oh the hundreds of times I've wanted to post that and didn't.  Thanks.

bosshawg38

When you've had to put up with what us Hog fans have had to put up with on offense especially this year, THEN you will understand why we are excited about Malzahn. We are so desperate for more offense, last year the stadium gave a standing ovation for an INCOMPLETE deep pass thrown.

PigPusher

Quote from: mizzouman on December 12, 2005, 10:59:26 am
This Saturday, the Texas Class 5A II championship game will be televised at noon. If you want to see how a high school spread offense looks like, please watch Southlake Carroll run it. Malzahn does not, by far, have a monopoly on this offense AND is probably not even the best coach to coach it in the South. Coach Dodge at Carroll IS the best at it. Also, Carroll won state last year
going undefeated and is currently 15-0.

The point here is that Malzahn WILL NOT bring anything new to college football or even the SEC. College defenses know how to stop the spread and to think Malzahn is the savior is ridiculous. Nutt will need to make it to a bowl game next year or loose his job. Bring in a brand new offense without the players who can execute it, the Razorbacks will be very, very, very lucky to make it to a bowl game next year. Therefore, Nutt secured his firing by hiring Malzahn. This offense may work our for Arkansas but will take a couple of years. If anything, he made the change a year or two too late.

You seem to be supposing that Coach Malzahn is one dimensional.  From what I have been able to read about him I would give odds that he is refreshinly one of the new multi dimensional young lions on the scene.  Everyone that have come in contact with him say that he is very intelligent and understands the game of football better than anyone they have ever come in contact with. One said he could lecture on the theory of football offenses for hours without stopping.  He is here, he has been hired and we should be very proud.  He is going to give us that which we have been bitching about for years, a winning offense.  That coupled with what Coach Herring is delivering makes for a pretty exciting time ahead even without master Mitch. I for one am damn glad I am a Razorback!!!!!
A loyal and proud Hogville Hog since 07-01-2003 "pushing" our hogs: And a loyal Razorback fan since 1954.

Hawgon

There are probably about 25 high school staffs in Texas right now that I would trade straight up for HDN and his staff.  Malzahn may end up being great but it is hard to get around the fact that he got hired because: 1) Was from Arkansas and only 8 miles from UA; 2) The powers that be thought he could bring some of his kids.

Did he deserve a shot?  Probably, yeah.  But probably not at this level right away.  HDN and Broyles would have laughed out of Arkansas if they had tried to hire South Lake Carroll's head coach as OC, even though this guy has run one of the best programs in the country in the toughest classification in Texas for years.

A lot of people have commented on how Malzahn is going to be able to mend fences with the high school coaches in the state, I don't see it that way.  In fact, it will probably have the opposite effect.  Human nature being what it is, there is bound to be a lot of envy associated with this hire and a good bit of feeling that Malzahn got where he was unfairly.

Now, will Malzahn do well.  Probably so, but we have no guarantee of that since everyone is eventually promoted to the level of their incompetence.  Maybe Gus is a great high school coach, but that is as far as it goes.  Running an offense against SEC defenses is a pretty tough place to take your first shot at college coaching.

dotnet

Quote from: 3kgthog on December 12, 2005, 11:08:21 am
Gee, do you think the guy at a 5A Texas school might have some talent to work with? That might have something to do with his offense looking great. Duh.

SLC has no more than three or four Div I prospects that are playing right now.  Compare that with other top 5A schools, and the I don't think you can solely attribute that to his offense looking good. SLC doesn't have near the talent on offense that Springdale has.  I'm not saying who is better, I'm just saying that the talent argument isn't valid.

Hawgon

Hiring Malzahn is like watching someon jack up a 30 footer in basketball.  If it goes in, great. But, you can't really say it was all that great of a decision to take the shot.

PigPusher

And of course we all will see, right??
A loyal and proud Hogville Hog since 07-01-2003 "pushing" our hogs: And a loyal Razorback fan since 1954.

Michaelt

Quote from: CiriusPorker on December 12, 2005, 11:12:47 am
I'm glad we have a 20 post expert starting a thread like this. I agree with Geoff. You're from MO, how would you know anything about anything in Texas.

A persons expertise is judged by how many posts they have on a message board? That's just funny.
How would a person in MO know anything about anything in Texas? Hmm, internet maybe? Sports reports?
research? possibly some trips to Texas?
So with most of us being from or in Arkansas, we shouldn't know anything about anything from other states?
That's just ludicrous.
Hearing God's voice means not listening to the noise of the world around us.

 

whatsshakinbacon

Malzahn has already said he's not married to the spread.  He's married to breaking down defenses and running the offense against them that will work.  I expect we'll see spread offense about 50% of the time early next year and fine tune it as we go along.

But, the 30 footer just left his hands.  Right now we're all standing up with our mouths agape waiting for the ball to drop. 

******SWISH*******

Bacon out...

mizzouman

ballhog24, I have no idea what you are talking about.  I went to Mizzou, yes, but I have first hand knowledge of SLC.  Also, I have lived in Little Rock for almost 15 years, off and on, so I do know a lot about the Razorbacks.

Anyway, my point is that Malzahn is not the savior and Nutt will be gone next year.  It takes a couple of years to install a new offense regardless of who you have as players.

whatsshakinbacon

Quote from: mizzouman on December 12, 2005, 11:32:48 am
ballhog24, I have no idea what you are talking about. I went to Mizzou, yes, but I have first hand knowledge of SLC. Also, I have lived in Little Rock for almost 15 years, off and on, so I do know a lot about the Razorbacks.

Anyway, my point is that Malzahn is not the savior and Nutt will be gone next year. It takes a couple of years to install a new offense regardless of who you have as players.

Let me restate above post - we are NOT going to 100% spread offense next year.  We may not even be operating 50% out of it at first.  Malzahn is no idiot, he knows this big of a leap takes time and personnel changes. 

Bacon out...

mizzouman

Bacon, if that's the case, then why even hire Malzahn??????  If Arkansas hired Malzahn because of his "genious" offense, then why not put it in???  The spread offense is an offense that you either put in 100% or you don't do it at all. 

whatsshakinbacon

Quote from: mizzouman on December 12, 2005, 11:40:49 am
Bacon, if that's the case, then why even hire Malzahn?????? If Arkansas hired Malzahn because of his "genious" offense, then why not put it in??? The spread offense is an offense that you either put in 100% or you don't do it at all.

Like any major offensive philosophy shift, you have to implement it in increments.  See how Nebraska is doing by going 100% to the west coast style passing attack?  It doesn't work if you throw the whole thing in at once.

I think a lot depends on the personnel Malzahn has to work with next year.  Can they pass block?  Will MM be there?  Will CD be able to pick this up quickly?

Bacon out...

silverhawg

I loved the post..about experts being based on how many posts....what happened to all the experts that were telling us Nutt would be fired....I noticed they are not on much now....I hope Gus does get to run the offense & I don't care one way or the other what it does to or for Nutt...just want to see the hogs return to better than mediocrity.....

dotnet

Quote from: mizzouman on December 12, 2005, 11:40:49 am
Bacon, if that's the case, then why even hire Malzahn?????? If Arkansas hired Malzahn because of his "genious" offense, then why not put it in??? The spread offense is an offense that you either put in 100% or you don't do it at all.

You put it in 100% or you don't do it at all? Said who?  We hired him because we need someone fully dedicated to play calling that can read defenses and build an offensive game plan.  We didn't hire him because we thought he invented a new offensive scheme.  If you're smart enough to figure out that he hasn't invented one, don't you think others are too.  We hired him to run the offense and give it balance.

Cornhogio

Quote from: CiriusPorker on December 12, 2005, 11:12:47 am
I'm glad we have a 20 post expert starting a thread like this.

So there's a certain number of posts that make you smart?  I guess I missed that memo.
Society is responsible for the night that it produces.

whatsshakinbacon

Quote from: Cornhogio on December 12, 2005, 11:47:05 am
Quote from: CiriusPorker on December 12, 2005, 11:12:47 am
I'm glad we have a 20 post expert starting a thread like this.

So there's a certain number of posts that make you smart? I guess I missed that memo.

Yes, it is 2682.  YEAH!!!

Bacon out...

Izual65

Dude, it not that Malzhan is the next Steve Spurrier. Its that he calls plays MUCH better than can Nutt!!!

Cajun Hog

Quote from: mizzouman on December 12, 2005, 11:40:49 am
Bacon, if that's the case, then why even hire Malzahn?????? If Arkansas hired Malzahn because of his "genious" offense, then why not put it in??? The spread offense is an offense that you either put in 100% or you don't do it at all.

The reason is his a darned good coach. Bacon, is correct we won't run the spread 100% of the time.  It will be about 40 to 50 percent of his offense next year.  We have great backs and if complete passes down the field then everyone wins.

 

Razorod

Rumor here in Texas is that the head coach at Southlake Carroll is on the short list to become the head coach at Rice replacing Hatfield. I have seen Southlake play, and they are simply awesome. I believe the only game they have lost in the last four years is to Houston Katy in the state finals in 2003. Pretty impressive.
Hoping the Hogs basketball fortunes change for the better this season.

mizzouman

I don't know how people actually know the spread offense on this board, but it's not an offense where you can install 50% of it or any percentage of it.  It's a 100% spread or nothing.  That's how it works.  Now, Malzahn may no install the spread next year but may choose to intoduce it little by little, but then my question remains, Why hire him if you are not going to the spread 100% of the time next year?

Here's the bottom line on this offense.  You have to install 100% of it or you don't use it.  It's not rocket science.  Also, when you install this offense in a team that has never ran it, then there will be some big time growing pains but eventually, it will come together.  My point is that it won't come fully together in one year.  In fact, it may take 2 or 3 years.  So, next year will be a difficult offensive year, but it will get better.

So, what I'm saying is that Nutt secured his firing because Arkansas will be hard pressed to go bowling next year due to the new offense.  The only way he keeps his job after next year is if Broyles accepts another sub .500 year next year.

whatsshakinbacon

Quote from: Razorod on December 12, 2005, 11:53:39 am
Rumor here in Texas is that the head coach at Southlake Carroll is on the short list to become the head coach at Rice replacing Hatfield. I have seen Southlake play, and they are simply awesome. I believe the only game they have lost in the last four years is to Houston Katy in the state finals in 2003. Pretty impressive.

And suddenly a HS coach becoming OC at Arkansas becomes a non-story.

Bacon out...

sportscrazy

I am trying to figure out why everyone is so concerned about our offensive strategy.  I think the real problems have not been addressed.  I know to many Hog fans it seems we have found that savior but there is not guarantees here.  How many games have we won.  I am reserving judgement on this.

The point that needs to be made is can Gus recruit.  Besides two running backs and one WR we have no one else that really is outstanding.  We do not know if MM is coming here.  On the other side of the ball how many 4 or 5 star recruits do we have coming in.  So far one.  Compare it to LSU, Auburn, Georgia, Florida, Tenn and the other schools around the SEC.  That is the real story.  Being a successful HC, OC or DC begins with recruiting not X's and O's.

HogPhan

Quote from: whatsshakinbacon on December 12, 2005, 11:35:02 am
Quote from: mizzouman on December 12, 2005, 11:32:48 am
ballhog24, I have no idea what you are talking about. I went to Mizzou, yes, but I have first hand knowledge of SLC. Also, I have lived in Little Rock for almost 15 years, off and on, so I do know a lot about the Razorbacks.

Anyway, my point is that Malzahn is not the savior and Nutt will be gone next year. It takes a couple of years to install a new offense regardless of who you have as players.

Let me restate above post - we are NOT going to 100% spread offense next year. We may not even be operating 50% out of it at first. Malzahn is no idiot, he knows this big of a leap takes time and personnel changes.

Bacon out...

Bacon, your right on.  If anything, gus brings imagination, something this offense has been lacking since i can remember.