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Kicking Around with SEC Close Game Leader

Started by SharpTusk, June 21, 2010, 11:48:09 am

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SharpTusk

June 21, 2010, 11:48:09 am Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 03:39:36 pm by SharpTusk
No Cliff's Notes for this one guys.  Edit: Brandon Marcello of NWAonline.com has dedicated an entire blog entry to this post. http://blogs.nwaonline.com/slophouse/2010/06/too-close/

To his credit, he has described one or two things better than I about my own piece!  Any time there's a chance to learn and get better, it's always a good thing!  Thanks!


[Barrett] Here we go folks...the final play of the game...Arkansas' out of time outs...Alabama with one...'Bama 19, Arkansas 13...Four seconds left on the clock...Mallet comes up to the line...looks at the defense... 15 on the play clock... audibles down the line...drops back into shotgun formation... Childs left, Adams wide right... here's the snap...Mallet drops back...Cody rushes up the middle... Wingo cuts him down...Mallet steps right...JOE ADAMS SHAKES FREE DOWNFIELD... MALLET GUNS IT...TOUCHDOWN ARKANSAS! WHAT A CATCH ! WHAT A THROW! THE CLOCK READS ZERO ZERO!

THE TEAM SWARMS ADAMS...THE CROWD IS GOING NUTS...IT'S BEDLAM IN FAYETTEVILLE! The coaches are trying to get the players back where they're supposed to be and on trots Alex Tejada for the point after...wait...there's a flag down on the far side...Arkansas' getting hit with an excessive celebration penalty from the early indication from the officials...now there's a discussion among the refs...it looks like they are going to assess the penalty on the PAT since there's no time on the clock.


...Officials mark off 15 yards putting the Hogs back at about the 18 yard line and quiet the crowd...the holder takes a knee back at the 25 yard line and what was a walk-in-the-park point after is now a 35-yard kick for Alex Tejada... here's the snap...the ball is down...THE KICK CLEARS THE DEFENDERS' HANDS AND IT'S...


The SEC Close Game Leader

Since Arkansas entered the SEC in 1993, no other SEC team has played more regular-season conference games decided by 3 points or fewer than Arkansas. Averaging almost 2 close games per season in SEC play every year, the Hogs' 32 games fitting that bill are 23.5% of all Razorbacks' regular-season conference games played. Arkansas has at least one close game against all eleven SEC opponents. LSU and Mississippi State have 6 close games each against the Hogs, and Auburn and Alabama have played 5 each. Through 2003 (11 seasons), Arkansas was 11-4-1 (NB:When I posted all close games since 1993, Arkansas was in the losing column of the 1993 tie with Mississippi State... my bad.) in close games, but beginning in 2004 the rate of close games went up, and Arkansas' fortunes went down as the Hogs' 6-10 close-game record accounted for 27.6% of all close SEC games.

In a nutshell, over 17 years Arkansas has played games 4 complete SEC seasons of close games.

The effort put in here to learn about close games and field goal kicking is time well spent. Once again, we try to bring you information you won't see elsewhere.

The Relationship between Field Goals and Wins

Before you go any further, the title of this section doesn't say "The Relationship between Field Goals and Close Wins."

It makes common sense that there would be a positive relationship between better field goal kicking and the number of wins a team produces. To take a closer look, the final complete season records for SEC Teams were paired with field goal information for each team for each year from 2000-2009. Teams were sorted according to the number of wins 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, and so forth, and then their numbers of field goals made, attempted and percentage made were averaged according to the number of wins achieved at the end of the year. Alabama in 2009 was the only SEC team in the last 10 years with 14 wins so its data alone was used for 14 wins. Six squads achieved 13 wins so their FG's made, attempted and percentages were averaged together and so forth.

When it was finished the chart looks like this. (The Chart is on Hog Database.)

A pattern develops at three wins and above. For each win over 3 wins (which is associated with a 53% field goal accuracy), continuing up through 7 wins, each field goal percentage increase of roughly 3 percentage points equates to each additional win over 3. It's not quite a straight-line increase, but it's darn close.

Between six and seven wins, one thing dramatically changes. Instead of making between 8-11 kicks per year up to six wins, for seven, eight and nine wins, kickers average between 13-15 made field goals. Instead of a 3 percentage point increase in accuracy, there's a 4 percentage point increase in accuracy for each win above 8.

Lastly, the average number of made field goals associated with 10, 11, and 13 wins is 19 in all three winning groups. Each has at least six teams which have finished with that number of wins. Only one team had 14 wins and only 2 ended with 12 wins so those are too light on occurrences to draw any conclusions.

Other Teams in 2009, Arkansas and Particularly Alex Tejada

2009 was particularly good year for SEC kickers overall.

From 2000-2008 SEC kickers collectively hit 68.8% of their field goal attempts in all games played, while SEC kickers in 2009 made 78.2% of their field goals. Of those SEC kickers in the set of top 100 scorers in the country, Wes Byrum of Auburn lead the SEC in FG % with 93.75%, followed by Georgia's Blair Walsh at 90.91%, Alabama's Leigh Tiffin at 85.71%, LSU's Josh Jasper at 85%, Josh Schene of Ole Miss at 75%, Caleb Sturgis of Florida at 73.33% before you reach Alex Tejada's 72.73%

In any other year, Arkansas' 2009 field goal percentage of 72.73% would be better than average. Of the 120 SEC team field goal averages for the last 10 years, 72.2% would rank 45 of 120.

As you know, Alex Tejada accounted for all of Arkansas's field goals last year and PATs. For PATs he was 58 of 59. For field goals he registered 16 of 22. Correlating his 72.73% field goal percentage to wins, as above, 8 wins is associated with a kicking percentage of 71.1% and around 14-15 made field goals. Two attempts against Florida, if made, would have squeezed out an additional win, but the one attempt missed against LSU would have only guaranteed more playing time.

Of all football players at any position in the country, Alex ranked 30th in points scored with 106. Only 12 kickers did better than he in terms of the number of points scored, and only Caleb Sturgis of Florida and Leigh Tiffin of Alabama scored more points in the SEC, 110 and 132 respectively.

Despite overall numbers which are really pretty good, when I mentioned these to a friend, the response was, "I still don't like Alex Tejada as our kicker." The reason is probably more involved than 2009.

A Short, Stormy History of Arkansas Kickers and Close SEC Games

2005 is likely the root of negativity regarding Arkansas' kickers. After going 5-6 the year before and splitting close games, Arkansas was in the midst of a difficult 4-7 season as the Hogs lost to Georgia (23-20) and LSU (19-17). Georgia was 3-3 in field goals, and LSU hit its only attempt. Balseiro was 1-3 in Arkansas' 2 point loss to LSU and 2-3 against Georgia. The "what ifs" are almost audible now.

Of these 2005 losses, which sounds more egregious? From a kicking standpoint, Arkansas missed out on 6 points against LSU when either kick might have provided the margin of victory. However, LSU's decisive points were scored with a touchdown and an extra point.

Arkansas won both of its close games in 2006 with kicking playing a role in the part of failures on the opposing teams. Against Alabama, Jeremy Davis went 1-1 while Leigh Tiffin went 1-4 and missed a PAT as Arkansas won 24-23. Vandy played Arkansas to a 21-19 game, but Davis wasn't called on to make a field goal.

When Alex Tejada entered as a true freshman in 2007, impressions from mid-season may be lasting ones. When Arkansas lost to Alabama 41-38 in Tuscaloosa, Alex made the only field goal he was asked to make. One month later Tejada missed his only attempt against Auburn in Arkansas' 9-7 loss. What made the circumstances more pointed was that Auburn's kicker didn't have a stellar performance either but carried the day by hitting 3-5 field goals. Six games later, Arkansas added to its close game resume in Death Valley. LSU was gunning for a BCS Championship Game when Arkansas beat the Bengal Tigers 50-48 in three overtimes Arkansas didn't attempt any field goals.

Coach Petrino diffused some kicking concerns in 2008 as he played both Alex Tejada and Shay Haddock. While going 5-7 on the year, Arkansas scrapped like no other time in their SEC history. Five Arkansas SEC Games were decided by 3 points or fewer. Coach Petrino's decision to play Shay Haddock paid off as Shay was 2-2 in Arkansas 25-22 win over Auburn. The following week, Kentucky squeaked by Arkansas 21-20 in a game where Haddock made his two field goal attempts. Seven days later, Ole Miss was the culprit, beating Arkansas 23-21 but fortunes for Shay Haddock turned. He missed the only attempt he tried. A little more than 1 month later, Arkansas was in another close one with Mississippi St. Fortune didn't smile on Alex Tejada as he went 0-2 with a missed FG try in the last 2 minutes, and Mississippi St. eeked out a 31-28 win. 2008 wouldn't go away without another close contest. In the final game of the year, Arkansas beat LSU 31-30. Alex Tejada made his only field goal attempt and made all PATs.

In 2009 Alex Tejada made 2-4 field goal attempts against Florida and made 3-4 field goal attempts against LSU.

What if?

So let's play the games out on paper. The SEC has had a total of 58 close games since 2004. Suppose that both teams made all the field goals they attempted. The loser would have become the winner in only 12 of them. Nine others would have resulted in tie games.

Of Arkansas' 16 close games, the loser would have become the winner in 5 of them. However, don't fool yourself into thinking that would be preferable. Arkansas would lose 3 more games and win 2. In 2009, not only the LSU game would have ended in a tie, but the Florida game would have as well. Florida's Sturgis was 3-4 on the day.

If you were to change the thought and suppose that the losing team made all of its field goals as we wished last year, over the 6 years of close games the outcomes would have been changed in 22 of them. In games involving Arkansas, the Hogs would have picked up 5 wins over the last six years, but the Razorbacks would have dropped 3 others.

With much of the information in place and despite the fact it would take some time, the play-by-play charts were looked up on Yahoo Sports to determine how the points were scored by the winner in each of the 58 close games, and the manner of the "decisive points" were noted next to each game.

It was then that something appeared which nearly wipes out all straightforward analysis.

An Odd Observation Screams Significance

In 2010, for Coach Petrino the most difficult scenario to explain would be where none of the kickers provided an edge in close games despite each having an opportunity as Alex Tejada and Shay Haddock had in 2008. The issue would spread to recruiting, evaluation and development of kickers on top of the clamor over missed chances.

After a hard look at close SEC games in comparison to those Arkansas has played, it's doubtful that anyone but statistics geeks actually on a teams' payrolls have discovered what follows. However, if the statistics geeks had figured out certain characteristics of close games, none of it has escaped the mouths of former coaches or players who professionally comment on football in almost every media outlet that exists. The Data Table is at the end of this post.

In an observation made exclusively here after the Liberty Bowl, Coach Petrino's first win with a field goal in his seventy-six-game college head coaching career is truly significant and not some "Wow, that's weird!" kind of number. To put it succinctly, a basketball maxim is borrowed and expanded.

In close SEC Games a team lives by the 3 and dies by the 3 or lives by 6 and dies by 6.

Think for a moment about how games are decided. You could think of all sorts of ways games are won. Who would have thought that Auburn and Mississippi State would have played a FOOTBALL game to a score of 3-2 or that Arkansas would beat Kentucky 71-63? Expectations would be that close games would be no different. A coach would always profess, "We'll take a win however we can get it." That's why uncovering the maxim above was never expected.

From the study of 58 close SEC games over the last 6 years, in 26 games a field goal provided the winning margin. 32 were decided by a touchdown and extra point. Of the 32, in 6 the margin was actually the extra point.

From there only one more comparison needed to be made to possibly understand the observation made after the Liberty Bowl.

When the number of field goals made by teams whose decisive points were provided by a field goal were compared to the number of field goals made by the losing team, the winning team made more field goals than its opponent in 19 or 73% of the 26 games. In two other games the teams who won with a field goal made the same number as their opponents.

An even stronger correlation exists between the winning margin being provided by a touchdown and PAT and the winning team kicking fewer field goals. Of the 32 games won by a touchdown and PAT, in 24 of them (or 75%), the winning team kicked fewer field goals. In one other, the teams made the same number of field goals.


In what was initially expected to be random, an understanding of close SEC Games has emerged. Teams whose decisive points came with field goals in close games will strongly tend to score more field goals during the course of a game. Teams who score decisive points with a touchdown and an extra point win close games more often and score fewer field goals.

When it comes to Arkansas, Coach Petrino has been one to live and die by 6 in close games. In fact, his history at Louisville and Arkansas has a stronger correlation to the new maxim than the SEC's close games since 2004. Who would expect Coach Petrino to play in a way which tries to produce a win with a less advantageous method? Touchdowns + PATs produced 55% of the winners in close SEC games since 2004.

So where does that leave Arkansas's kickers?

To the extent that the best performing player should be the one to fill a roster spot, the Coaches' decisions regarding the starting kicker matters, but in Coach Petrino's scheme the kicker is truly only one weapon. The kicker is an important one but not the one relied upon to win games.

Whoever the starting kicker is in the coming days, pull for him. If he doesn't do well, there are others there to try.

Pull for them all including Alex Tejada. Which one of us didn't struggle at some point in school, even in our chosen area, before it all "clicked?" Players and Fans need to leave past kicks in the past.

If none of the kickers do well, cheer louder for the offense and defense because Arkansas and Coach Petrino will ultimately win more close games with touchdowns + PATs than with field goals.

(The Chart with all 58 games is on Hog Database.)

IT'S...IT'S...GOOD! TEJADA DOESN'T MAKE IT OFF THE FIELD THIS TIME. THE HOGS BEAT 'BAMA. THE HOGS BEAT 'BAMA AND TAKE THE DRIVERS' SEAT TO THE SEC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME!
Writer on  hog database

clew

Great analysis!  Read the whole thing and it makes a lot of sense.
Pure as the dawn

 

1highhog

That ain't even funny!!!!  I'll be up all night thinking about Tejada trotting out now trying to win the game making that kick,,

PorkSoda

Quote from: 1highhog on June 21, 2010, 12:17:39 pm
That ain't even funny!!!!  I'll be up all night thinking about Tejada trotting out now trying to win the game making that kick,,
I think that's the point.  we won't win with a field goal by Tejada.  We win by going for the TD.
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity." ― Edgar Allan Poe
"If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real." – Niels Bohr
"A mind stretched to a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions" ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes
Quote from: PonderinHog on August 07, 2023, 06:37:15 pmYeah, we're all here, but we ain't all there.

EastexHawg

When you ponder that 72% field goal number for Tejada...I think you need to factor into the equation that Coach Petrino rarely let him kick anything other than a chip shot unless absolutely necessary.

Smokehouse

Quote from: EastexHawg on June 21, 2010, 12:55:13 pm
When you ponder that 72% field goal number for Tejada...I think you need to factor into the equation that Coach Petrino rarely let him kick anything other than a chip shot unless absolutely necessary.

I'd like to see something on how much time was left in the game and what the score was for each of his misses. He's got the talent, his nerves just get the best of him in pressure situations.
QuoteSometimes a warrior just has to lay down on the ground there for a minute and just have a good bleed. Just bleed.

Words of wisdom from John Pelphrey.

PorkSoda

June 21, 2010, 03:51:55 pm #6 Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 03:58:43 pm by PorkSoda
Quote from: Smokehouse on June 21, 2010, 03:34:06 pm
I'd like to see something on how much time was left in the game and what the score was for each of his misses. He's got the talent, his nerves just get the best of him in pressure situations.
Yeah, over all, he had decent numbers, but struggled in pressure situations.  I really feel like Petrino is going to go for even more 4th downs this year.  I think Petrino's thinking is that he doesn't want the game to come down to a field goal.  If we do our job in all phases of the game, we'll win by more than 3 points.
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity." ― Edgar Allan Poe
"If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real." – Niels Bohr
"A mind stretched to a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions" ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes
Quote from: PonderinHog on August 07, 2023, 06:37:15 pmYeah, we're all here, but we ain't all there.

SharpTusk

Quote from: Camera Hog on June 21, 2010, 12:03:38 pm
Great analysis!  Read the whole thing and it makes a lot of sense.

Thanks Camera Hog!   I really wasn't expecting to find this, and I really haven't tried to make sense as to why it exists. 

When my mind has wandered in that direction, I think it has to be in part the philosophy of the coach.  Maybe those who score more touchdowns are risk takers in close games.  Maybe those who kick field goals are more conservative and hoard every point.

I'd love to hear thoughts on maybe why those who win with FGs kick more FGs and those who win with TDs kick fewer field goals.

Writer on  hog database

SharpTusk

Quote from: EastexHawg on June 21, 2010, 12:55:13 pm
When you ponder that 72% field goal number for Tejada...I think you need to factor into the equation that Coach Petrino rarely let him kick anything other than a chip shot unless absolutely necessary.

I absolutely agree.   Certainly Coach Petrino is not the first Coach to employ that thought process.   I suspect that some of the considerations have been factored into games in general... not just the close ones.  (i.e. the 0-14 wins chart)

Thanks for reading. 
Writer on  hog database

SharpTusk

Quote from: Smokehouse on June 21, 2010, 03:34:06 pm
I'd like to see something on how much time was left in the game and what the score was for each of his misses. He's got the talent, his nerves just get the best of him in pressure situations.

That may not be too hard to develop.   I have part of that information in that I noted, but didn't include in the large chart at the end of the post, whether the losing team missed FGs in the last 2 and last 5 minutes of the game.  If I get a chance this evening or in the morning, I'll post another chart with what I have on Hog Database.  (Yes a table can be posted here, but the wordpress plug-in is so easy to use and it takes enough time already.)
Writer on  hog database

SharpTusk

Quote from: PorkSoda on June 21, 2010, 12:37:03 pm
I think that's the point.  we won't win with a field goal by Tejada.  We win by going for the TD.

Which is why I set up a 35 yard extra point!  :)
Writer on  hog database

SharpTusk

Quote from: Firednutt on June 21, 2010, 03:50:47 pm
The  talent is not near as important as his position as being able to kick when the pressure is on. Look at dusty Johnson yesterday, he folded in the open because of nerves. Alex can kick great in practice, it's in his head. I don't think he ever gets any better. Once that doubt creeps in it's over. On kick offs and fg he tells himself what not to do and it's over. If you tell yourself not to hook a drive or hit this second serve softer, your already beat mentally. We need new blood kicking

That's been in the back of my mind writing this piece, but it's not the reason for the post.   I try to come up with a reasonable way of analyzing a problem then take the journey wherever it leads.  I expected this one to lead nowhere. 

Tejada is not Ankiel by any stretch of the imagination.  If positive support and helps and he's able to do it, that's fine. I think he's done enough to say that if all other things are equal, he should get the nod. 

Frankly I hope Hocker becomes the next Steve Little or Camera becomes the ice man. It was incredible to see Steve Little and Russell Irk-slaven stand on their own sides of the field and score. 
Writer on  hog database

PorkSoda

Quote from: SharpTusk on June 21, 2010, 04:29:33 pm
That's been in the back of my mind writing this piece, but it's not the reason for the post.   I try to come up with a reasonable way of analyzing a problem then take the journey wherever it leads.  I expected this one to lead nowhere. 

Tejada is not Ankiel by any stretch of the imagination.  If positive support and helps and he's able to do it, that's fine. I think he's done enough to say that if all other things are equal, he should get the nod. 

Frankly I hope Hocker becomes the next Steve Little or Camera becomes the ice man. It was incredible to see Steve Little and Russell Irk-slaven stand on their own sides of the field and score. 
Tejada was supposed to save us from the days of balsiero  (sp?) but left me wishing we had him back.  I don't know if camera or hocker are the answer, but I've kind of lost my faith in kickers.  not that tejada was terrible, he was just the opposite of clutch.
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity." ― Edgar Allan Poe
"If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real." – Niels Bohr
"A mind stretched to a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions" ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes
Quote from: PonderinHog on August 07, 2023, 06:37:15 pmYeah, we're all here, but we ain't all there.

 

SharpTusk

June 22, 2010, 07:03:35 am #13 Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 07:23:10 am by SharpTusk
Brandon Marcello of NWAonline.com has dedicated an entire blog entry to this post.

http://blogs.nwaonline.com/slophouse/2010/06/too-close/

To his credit, he has described one or two things better than I about my own piece!  Any time there's a chance to learn and get better, it's always a good thing!

Thanks!
Writer on  hog database

PorkSoda

June 22, 2010, 12:26:41 pm #14 Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 12:29:43 pm by PorkSoda
Sharp Tusk,

I was wondering if you knew the difference in percent chance of success between Going for a TD or a FG during our last redzone possession of the game?


Just trying to figure out if its better to take the field goal (37 or less yards) even with a less than clutch kicker or if we should trust malletts arm on 4th down in the redzone towards the end of the game.

 
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity." ― Edgar Allan Poe
"If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real." – Niels Bohr
"A mind stretched to a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions" ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes
Quote from: PonderinHog on August 07, 2023, 06:37:15 pmYeah, we're all here, but we ain't all there.

Iwastherein1969

not trying to rain on this parade, but if Terence Cody is rushing up the middle in our game this coming season against the BAM's .....Alabama will get the "death penalty" as he declared himself because he had no elgibility left....Cody was a JUCO transfer

as far as the outcome.....HELL YEAH !
The long Grey line will never fail our country.

Smokehouse

Quote from: SharpTusk on June 21, 2010, 04:16:05 pm
That may not be too hard to develop.   I have part of that information in that I noted, but didn't include in the large chart at the end of the post, whether the losing team missed FGs in the last 2 and last 5 minutes of the game.  If I get a chance this evening or in the morning, I'll post another chart with what I have on Hog Database.  (Yes a table can be posted here, but the wordpress plug-in is so easy to use and it takes enough time already.)

That'd be interesting. I imagine it would just tell us what Hog fans already know - Tejada's percentage is much lower in pressure situations. But, then again, sometimes a few key games can give you an image of someone that doesn't necessarily jive with the numbers (like how I could never acknowledge Tiffin as a good kicker even after he got consistent.)

I'm enjoying all the analysis! good job.
QuoteSometimes a warrior just has to lay down on the ground there for a minute and just have a good bleed. Just bleed.

Words of wisdom from John Pelphrey.

SharpTusk

Quote from: PorkSoda on June 22, 2010, 12:26:41 pm
Sharp Tusk,

I was wondering if you knew the difference in percent chance of success between Going for a TD or a FG during our last redzone possession of the game?


Just trying to figure out if its better to take the field goal (37 or less yards) even with a less than clutch kicker or if we should trust malletts arm on 4th down in the redzone towards the end of the game.

I appreciate you're asking but I haven't studied that.  I think it would fall back on what any coach would say -- Get it done however we can.   But that's what this post is about.  They say that, but they heavily lean one way or another in a game.
Writer on  hog database

PorkSoda

June 22, 2010, 04:11:57 pm #18 Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 04:15:02 pm by PorkSoda
Quote from: SharpTusk on June 22, 2010, 04:03:57 pm
I appreciate you're asking but I haven't studied that.  I think it would fall back on what any coach would say -- Get it done however we can.   But that's what this post is about.  They say that, but they heavily lean one way or another in a game.
cool, I know statistics are a lot of work, and wasn't sure if you included anything similar in your research. I thought it would be interesting to know what coaches call with thier last meaningful down.  I appreciate the insight you bring to the board.  in this case it is really a situation by situation judgement call.
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity." ― Edgar Allan Poe
"If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real." – Niels Bohr
"A mind stretched to a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions" ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes
Quote from: PonderinHog on August 07, 2023, 06:37:15 pmYeah, we're all here, but we ain't all there.

redeye

Two points:

1) Maybe it's just me, but I began noticing problems with our kicking game at some point during the nineties. Before that time, we had always seemed to excel in the kicking game, which is what good teams do. For as long as I can remember, Alabama has had a good kicking game and I'm sure that it's no accident.

2) I agree that too much was placed on Tejada's shoulders, and that he wasn't as bad as he may have appeared, but he did seem to choke on pressure kicks. He may have been as good as anyone in the nation, when the game wasn't on the line, but he stunk when it was. I give him credit for the ECU game, and I'm sure there were others, but I think great kickers perform BETTER when the game is on the line and Tejada did not.

GuvHog

Quote from: 1highhog on June 21, 2010, 12:17:39 pm
That ain't even funny!!!!  I'll be up all night thinking about Tejada trotting out now trying to win the game making that kick,,

On an Extra point the ball is placed in the middle of the field so Tejada would split the uprights. Now if for some reason Tejada had to attempt a 35 yard Extra Point and the ball was placed on the right Hash mark I'd be sweating pretty heavily myself.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

budcampbellfan

Tajada can't be depended upon for a PAT when the game is on the line.
"THE 'ARKANSAW RAZA'BACKS' ARE ON THE AIR!" - The late Bud Campbell at the beginning of each radio broadcast game.

kitarae


SharpTusk

Quote from: Smokehouse on June 21, 2010, 03:34:06 pm
I'd like to see something on how much time was left in the game and what the score was for each of his misses. He's got the talent, his nerves just get the best of him in pressure situations.

Smokehouse & everybody ---   

The timing information is at the bottom of the post on Hog Database along with a listing of all close games in the SEC since 1993. 

http://www.hogdb.com/2010/06/20/kicking-around-with-sec-close-game-leader/
Writer on  hog database

 

SharpTusk

Quote from: budcampbellfan on June 22, 2010, 09:57:05 pm
Tajada can't be depended upon for a PAT when the game is on the line.

I understand the sentiment, but Alex did get the opportunity to do precisely this against LSU in 2008.  Casey throws his last pass for a touchdown and Alex hit the PAT. 

It's not proof of every time, but it's one time.
Writer on  hog database

SharpTusk

Quote from: redeye on June 22, 2010, 08:24:37 pm
Two points:

1) Maybe it's just me, but I began noticing problems with our kicking game at some point during the nineties. Before that time, we had always seemed to excel in the kicking game, which is what good teams do. For as long as I can remember, Alabama has had a good kicking game and I'm sure that it's no accident.

2) I agree that too much was placed on Tejada's shoulders, and that he wasn't as bad as he may have appeared, but he did seem to choke on pressure kicks. He may have been as good as anyone in the nation, when the game wasn't on the line, but he stunk when it was. I give him credit for the ECU game, and I'm sure there were others, but I think great kickers perform BETTER when the game is on the line and Tejada did not.

I think you're pretty much on the money.

Maybe I'm an eternal optimist but numbers wise, he's so close to a top-notch performer and age-wise he's at a place where many work out issues that he can be the kicker we'd like him to be with some support.

Writer on  hog database

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: SharpTusk on June 21, 2010, 04:05:36 pm
I absolutely agree.   Certainly Coach Petrino is not the first Coach to employ that thought process.   I suspect that some of the considerations have been factored into games in general... not just the close ones.  (i.e. the 0-14 wins chart)

Thanks for reading. 

Great job, Sharptusk. Maybe John L. can set up a summer workout program for AT that involves walking back and forth over a pit full of razorblades while balancing himself on a 2x4? If that doesn't help his nerves in a difficult situation, nothing would.

I agree that BP, unless he finds a kicker with nerves of steel, a strong leg and dependable accuracy, will likely go for the TD unless he has no other option. Nothing against AT. I am sure he is a great kid, he just has a tendency to choke when the chips are down.
Go Hogs Go!

SharpTusk

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on June 23, 2010, 07:10:55 am
Great job, Sharptusk. Maybe John L. can set up a summer workout program for AT that involves walking back and forth over a pit full of razorblades while balancing himself on a 2x4? If that doesn't help his nerves in a difficult situation, nothing would.

I agree that BP, unless he finds a kicker with nerves of steel, a strong leg and dependable accuracy, will likely go for the TD unless he has no other option. Nothing against AT. I am sure he is a great kid, he just has a tendency to choke when the chips are down.

Thanks MHF!   Flipping channels one day I ran across a show where an older trainer-type person had an air horn a few feet from a basketball player.  Trainer would feed the player a ball and would sound the loud, obnoxious air horn.

How do you create pressure for a kicker?  I don't play golf but it seems like the swing of a leg (hook, slice) would be similar.

Now that I think about it, we heard much about technique last year -- Ryan Mallet's feet, d-backs' hands between the receivers' hands, O-Line & hands and footwork, etc. -- that I don't remember any comments about AT's technique.  It's not a comment because I don't know what to think about it.   
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budcampbellfan

Quote from: SharpTusk on June 23, 2010, 06:57:51 am
I understand the sentiment, but Alex did get the opportunity to do precisely this against LSU in 2008.  Casey throws his last pass for a touchdown and Alex hit the PAT. 

It's not proof of every time, but it's one time.
I said "counted upon".   Consistency is the need.
"THE 'ARKANSAW RAZA'BACKS' ARE ON THE AIR!" - The late Bud Campbell at the beginning of each radio broadcast game.

MuskogeeHogFan

June 25, 2010, 10:33:39 am #29 Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 10:36:34 am by MuskogeeHogFan
Quote from: SharpTusk on June 23, 2010, 06:18:14 pm
Thanks MHF!   Flipping channels one day I ran across a show where an older trainer-type person had an air horn a few feet from a basketball player.  Trainer would feed the player a ball and would sound the loud, obnoxious air horn.

How do you create pressure for a kicker?  I don't play golf but it seems like the swing of a leg (hook, slice) would be similar.

Now that I think about it, we heard much about technique last year -- Ryan Mallet's feet, d-backs' hands between the receivers' hands, O-Line & hands and footwork, etc. -- that I don't remember any comments about AT's technique.  It's not a comment because I don't know what to think about it.   

You know, kickers have to think about/practice/hone their technique just like any other skilled athlete...like a golfer for instance. The execution of that technique which a kicker is supposed to repeatedly perform isn't dissimilar to that of a golfer in that it must be repeated under high pressure situations with consistency and accuracy. To the point that they don't have to actively think/focus on the technique, but simply perform it.

That being said, our DC in college was also our Special Teams coach and when we practiced FG's, PAT's and Punts he would line 5 guys up in a row and have them take turns beating my head in every time I snapped the ball to our holder. As a result, I never had a single bad snap in college. I hated him at the time, but understood the logic and it did help me perform under pressure.

The same DC would also line up a couple of guys on the outside and have them rush the kicker/punter on each kick, completely unobstructed...so these guys were in the kicker/punters face on every kick/punt in practice. Sometimes he would whisper to me to snap the ball low or high, inside or outside, to test and train the holder/punter/kicker. And there was also times that he would have the guys who were rushing to actually "brush" the punter/kicker during the action of the play.

As a result, we never had a punt off the side of a punters foot and if a kicker missed on a FG it was simply because of weather conditions, a lack of leg strength/distance on FG's or because the kicker just screwed the pooch in terms of general technique.

I say all this to just illustrate that we never missed on any of these things because of pressure. We generally had more pressure in practice than we ever had in a game...as it should be.

I have no idea what John L. puts these kids through in ST practice, but I know what I saw work at one time in my life and it certainly gave all of us who were subjected to it, a solid set of steely nerves enabling us to perform in any pressure packed situation.
Go Hogs Go!

SharpTusk

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on June 25, 2010, 10:33:39 am
As a result, we never had a punt off the side of a punters foot and if a kicker missed on a FG it was simply because of weather conditions, a lack of leg strength/distance on FG's or because the kicker just screwed the pooch in terms of general technique.

I say all this to just illustrate that we never missed on any of these things because of pressure. We generally had more pressure in practice than we ever had in a game...as it should be.

I have no idea what John L. puts these kids through in ST practice, but I know what I saw work at one time in my life and it certainly gave all of us who were subjected to it, a solid set of steely nerves enabling us to perform in any pressure packed situation.

I'd have to think that Coach Smith would do something similar, but like you, I can't know without bluntly asking one of the coaches or Alex Tejada. 

During spring ball this year, Coach Petrino (maybe others) made specific statements that some of the time for spring ball would be dedicated to special teams. 

My GUESS is that this is important for what WASN'T said. As I understand it, stretching and warmups are expected before practice so that the limited amount of NCAA practice time is used on practice and not stretching.  Practices are highly organized and executed at a brisk pace.  Unless it's a scrimmage, different reports have talked about modules or segments of practices that last X minutes each depending upon the importance. If that's right then it's obvious that it's a way of working on everything. 

Year 1 saw the installation and development of the offense while last year saw further development of the offense and a necessary focus on the defense. 

With so much that needed to be done and with so much which must be a higher priority, AND with specific comments in the spring about special teams, I have the feeling that not much time was allocated to kicking during formal practice, particularly with the best defensive backs to rush without obstruction. 

I'd love to hear what information hogville has about a few things that seem important. 

Is the whole scout team locked down with simulations, etc. so that it's occupied during practice by the offense and defense?   

Let's say that there are a couple of players who can go simulate rushes.  I'd assume that they'd know the relative speeds of the scout teamer and the SEC's best so that the scout teamer might be moved closer by X feet so that he arrives at the same time the best would.  Is that fair? 

Is there another area where kickers can kick field goals on the turf besides Razorback Stadium? 

I'm wondering if that most of the time they have to practice in the stadium is outside normal practice times. 
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