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Author Topic: Arkansas or Indiana  (Read 1636 times)

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#2

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Arkansas or Indiana
« on: March 04, 2010, 10:31:36 am »

Two Historic basketball programs. Both fired their hall of fame legendary coaches and since both have struggled to regain their place as an elite bball program. I imagine that they are having a lot of the same conversations that we are having. So the question is, who makes it back first?
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NWASooner

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2010, 10:37:46 am »

Two Historic basketball programs. Both fired their hall of fame legendary coaches and since both have struggled to regain their place as an elite bball program. I imagine that they are having a lot of the same conversations that we are having. So the question is, who makes it back first?

Indiana.  Tom Crean has a long record of winning.  John Pelphrey does not.
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The Hogfather

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2010, 10:48:09 am »

Oklahoma.
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NWASooner

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2010, 10:51:06 am »

Oklahoma.

Jeff Capel is a .640 coach and that's after a bad season.  John Pelphrey is a .540 coach.

I know which horse I'd tie my wagon to.
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GuvHog

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2010, 10:55:04 am »

Two Historic basketball programs. Both fired their hall of fame legendary coaches and since both have struggled to regain their place as an elite bball program. I imagine that they are having a lot of the same conversations that we are having. So the question is, who makes it back first?

Arkansas. Indiana won't give Crean a fair chance, he'll be fired.
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The Hogfather

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2010, 11:00:14 am »

Jeff Capel is a .640 coach and that's after a bad season.  John Pelphrey is a .540 coach.

I know which horse I'd tie my wagon to.

You mean you'd "tie your wagon" to the coach at your school?  Who woulda thunk it?

We'll see what Capel can do from now on.  If he keeps it up, he's going to "be what he is", if you know what I mean.  A couple more losing seasons and he'll be a .540 coach too.  That premise is so stupid.  It doesn't take into acount the circumstances facing each coach at each job. 

Just look at Crean.  He's going to have to post some exquisite records to overcome those records at Indiana the past two years, due to that debacle he had when he walked into Indiana.  How's he going to "be what he is", which is a career .590 coach?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 11:02:21 am by The Hogfather »
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HawgG

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2010, 11:01:43 am »

Indiana.  Tom Crean has a long record of winning.  John Pelphrey does not.

Tom Crean should've stayed at Marquette. If the Hoosiers fail to make the NCAAT next season then he will be fired. With the instant success of Calipari at UK the bar has been set higher at these top D-1 programs.

The one difference in the Indiana situation compared to Arkansas was that Crean took over a program that Sampson left in disarray meanwhile Pelphrey took over a program that was rebuilt and ready to take the next step. After all Arkansas was ranked in the top 25 before Pelphrey ever coached a game.
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NeverYield

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2010, 11:04:54 am »

Arkansas will make it back first.  However it doesn't look like it's gonna be real soon.  I just think Indiana has had their run and Arkansas has not even began to start the run that this whole program has the potential for ( basketball, football and baseball )  we've still got a HUGE upside to look forward too!  I just hope it's sooner, rather than later!
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The Hogfather

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2010, 11:09:08 am »

The one difference in the Indiana situation compared to Arkansas was that Crean took over a program that Sampson left in disarray meanwhile Pelphrey took over a program that was rebuilt and ready to take the next step. After all Arkansas was ranked in the top 25 before Pelphrey ever coached a game.

RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT.  Crean did take over a crappy situation.  Pelphrey did too, it was just delayed a year.  You can't build on a "top 25 team" or "take the next step" with a team, when you lose 9 players from that team the year after they go to the NCAAT.  I don't understand how people can't comprehend this.
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The_Iceman

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2010, 11:15:31 am »

Indiana did lose their best player due to injury.
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The Hogfather

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2010, 11:20:52 am »

You mean you'd "tie your wagon" to the coach at your school?  Who woulda thunk it?

We'll see what Capel can do from now on.  If he keeps it up, he's going to "be what he is", if you know what I mean.  A couple more losing seasons and he'll be a .540 coach too.  That premise is so stupid.  It doesn't take into acount the circumstances facing each coach at each job. 

Just look at Crean.  He's going to have to post some exquisite records to overcome those records at Indiana the past two years, due to that debacle he had when he walked into Indiana.  How's he going to "be what he is", which is a career .590 coach?

He is a .590 career coach.  Just to "be what he is" at Indiana, here is what he has to do over the next 5 years:

His record right now is 15-45 over the past 2 years.

He would have to go:

2010-11:  18-12
2011-12:  20-10
2012-13:  22-8
2013-14:  24-6
2014-15:  26-4

If he doesn't do that, he's "getting worse as a coach" in your eyes.  How ridiculous is that?


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3kgthog

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2010, 11:22:39 am »

Arkansas. IU had a much worse situation with defections and NCAA issues.
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mizzouman

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2010, 11:26:41 am »

Depends.  If Arkansas fires Pel after this year, Arkansas.  If they don't, then Indiana.
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The_Iceman

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2010, 11:29:29 am »

If we make a coaching change, then we will be back as soon as next year.

If not, then Indiana cause Pelphrey is a Loser.
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mizzouman

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2010, 11:30:55 am »

If we make a coaching change, then we will be back as soon as next year.

If not, then Indiana cause Pelphrey is a Loser.

We actually agree....  :) 
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LibraryHog

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2010, 11:32:29 am »

LMAO

5 National Championships to 1 National Championship.
I like how my post about Roy Williams gets deleted because he has won more, yet this gets to stay when the two programs are not comparable.

Indiana has a greater history than Arkansas.
Nice try though.
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Oliver

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2010, 11:36:20 am »

Indiana will return to glory first.  Basketball is above all at Indiana and their AD will spend whatever it takes to ensure their program returns to prominence.
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JackJohnson

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2010, 11:44:50 am »

RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT.  Crean did take over a crappy situation.  Pelphrey did too, it was just delayed a year.  You can't build on a "top 25 team" or "take the next step" with a team, when you lose 9 players from that team the year after they go to the NCAAT.  I don't understand how people can't comprehend this.

Indiana lost 2 first round draft picks (Eric Gordon and DJ White), as well as 9 overall players when Crean took over.  The only two holdovers from Sampson's last year and Crean's first year was Kyle Tabor and Brett Finkelmeier- who combined played in 29 games (4 starts), averaging 12.8 minutes played, 1.6 points and 2.5 rebounds.

Indiana was slapped with 3 years probation and: "IU's self-imposed penalties included one scholarship loss for the current season and a variety of recruiting restrictions. Those restrictions involved extra limitations on the number of phone calls coaches could make to recruits, which coaches make the calls, when the coaches could travel to recruit and the number of expenses-paid "official" visits to campus by recruits."

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The Hogfather

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2010, 11:49:02 am »

Indiana lost 2 first round draft picks (Eric Gordon and DJ White), as well as 9 overall players when Crean took over.  The only two holdovers from Sampson's last year and Crean's first year was Kyle Tabor and Brett Finkelmeier- who combined played in 29 games (4 starts), averaging 12.8 minutes played, 1.6 points and 2.5 rebounds.

Indiana was slapped with 3 years probation and: "IU's self-imposed penalties included one scholarship loss for the current season and a variety of recruiting restrictions. Those restrictions involved extra limitations on the number of phone calls coaches could make to recruits, which coaches make the calls, when the coaches could travel to recruit and the number of expenses-paid "official" visits to campus by recruits."



As I said, Crean took over a crappy situation.  Pelphrey did too, it was just delayed by a year.
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PoormansRobbyHampton

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2010, 11:51:09 am »

Indiana lost 2 first round draft picks (Eric Gordon and DJ White), as well as 9 overall players when Crean took over.  The only two holdovers from Sampson's last year and Crean's first year was Kyle Tabor and Brett Finkelmeier- who combined played in 29 games (4 starts), averaging 12.8 minutes played, 1.6 points and 2.5 rebounds.

Indiana was slapped with 3 years probation and: "IU's self-imposed penalties included one scholarship loss for the current season and a variety of recruiting restrictions. Those restrictions involved extra limitations on the number of phone calls coaches could make to recruits, which coaches make the calls, when the coaches could travel to recruit and the number of expenses-paid "official" visits to campus by recruits."

Oh yeah? Well Pelphrey was handed the keys to a top 25 team that was favored to win the west and finished 9-7! Pel had it much tougher!  :puke:
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The_Iceman

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2010, 12:00:55 pm »

Oh yeah? Well Pelphrey was handed the keys to a top 25 team that was favored to win the west and finished 9-7! Pel had it much tougher!  :puke:

He even underachieved with that team!

Weems, Beverley, Townes, Hill, Thomas, etc. Geez!
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hoosier

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2010, 12:02:43 pm »

Pel had a full year to recruit and was coming off a succesful season. How did that turn out. No excuses for Pels recruiting. Pitiful.
Crean came into a much worse situation immediately. And for those that think IU will fire him next year if they don't make the NCAA you don't have any idea what your talking about.

And FWIW IU had over 16k at their last home game against Wisconsin. IU fans know it's going to take a couple more years for them to be good again. And they're willing to wait and will be supportive. They will not go through another Sampson fiasco.
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HawgG

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2010, 12:06:42 pm »

RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT.  Crean did take over a crappy situation.  Pelphrey did too, it was just delayed a year.  You can't build on a "top 25 team" or "take the next step" with a team, when you lose 9 players from that team the year after they go to the NCAAT.  I don't understand how people can't comprehend this.

Pelphrey's crappy situation is/was create by Coach Pelphrey and no one else. Today's Razorbacks basketball program is a direct reflection of decisions he has made since he's been on the job. He has no excuses and in fact he probably should apologize for having the team in it's current state of mediocrity. To bad you can't understand that. Tom Crean is facing obstacles at Indiana that wasn't by his own doing, but if he doesn't win and soon he will be gone.
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hoosier

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2010, 12:19:37 pm »

I should clarify- If IU plays as bad next year as they are this year, without any signs of improvement, then yeah Crean could get fired. No program would put up with that...
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chiefsfan

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2010, 01:28:31 pm »

Depends   if Arkansas fires Pelphrey   Indiana gets back first.   If they dont.  Arkansas does
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chiefsfan

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2010, 01:32:07 pm »

Pelphrey's crappy situation is/was create by Coach Pelphrey and no one else. Today's Razorbacks basketball program is a direct reflection of decisions he has made since he's been on the job. He has no excuses and in fact he probably should apologize for having the team in it's current state of mediocrity. To bad you can't understand that. Tom Crean is facing obstacles at Indiana that wasn't by his own doing, but if he doesn't win and soon he will be gone.

half the mess is pelphreys.  the fact he had to try and sign 8 guys in one year is not his fault.   the fact that the players he signed didnt all work out is his fault
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gguillo

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2010, 01:50:02 pm »

Indiana... because pretty soon their fans are going to start demanding excellence.  We have too many fans that are completely fine with what's been going on.  Don't believe me?  Listen to Arkansas sports talk radio, sunshine pumpers are everywhere.
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RedSoxFan

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Re: Arkansas or Indiana
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2010, 01:58:07 pm »

Fired hall of famers yes. But!!! Indiana also made a final four as well post hall of famer. Fwiw.
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