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Author Topic: Our bigmen for next year.......  (Read 6826 times)

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Danny J

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #100 on: January 19, 2010, 04:53:54 pm »

...
But thats also where they scored points, they used there defense to make offense.
Exactly! See this is someone who ACTUALLY understands the uptempo game. Defense creates offense and then when offense scores you set up the press to force teams into taking quick shots and repeat the cycle over again. Thats how runs are created in an uptempo style of game.
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HawgAdvocate

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #101 on: January 19, 2010, 04:55:21 pm »

...
But thats also where they scored points, they used there defense to make offense.

True, they capitilized on TOs on many occasions...but that is not the offense that Nolan taught his kids to run every day in practice. What I'm asking is for you guys to describe to me what our half-court offense was (what sort of sets) did we run when we weren't creating TOs.
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HawgAdvocate

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #102 on: January 19, 2010, 04:55:56 pm »

Still waiting for your answer to "OUR style" doesnt work with a bigman. How come nolan did it with oliver? Quit trying to disect uptempo styles of ball from one another because uptemp means teams that like to get up and down the floor quickly and nothing more. Tell me again how bigmen are not required when playing uptempo.

Nolan didn't run a spread pick and roll.

Next.
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Danny J

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #103 on: January 19, 2010, 04:56:09 pm »

Our "style of play" (spread pick & roll) does not work well with a lane-clogging big man.

I did NOT say an "uptempo" team. Read more, post less.

Where did I say Miller shot one 18 footer and that he was soley a an outside shooter? Prove me wrong. Use some facts. Discuss Stewart's skills. ou talk the talk, well, walk the walk.

You must be a child. There's no exscuse to be this absurd.
Our style is not a spread pick and roll. LOL...you call yourself an authority? You think we run what the utah jazz run? LOL....You compared stewart to miller. DO I need to go find that post also? You must be bi-polar and forget half of what you type. Here I will go find that post and get right back to you.
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Danny J

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #104 on: January 19, 2010, 04:56:43 pm »

Nolan didn't run a spread pick and roll.

Next.
Neither do we. 
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Danny J

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #105 on: January 19, 2010, 04:59:08 pm »

Oliver Miller?!?!?!? 1992 called, you missed the boat.

Did Lee Mayberry make a living out of driving, drawing defenders, and making the kickout? No.

Miller could also hit the 18 footer. He was a more-skilled version of Dwight Stewart. Miller was better with the ball in his hands. He may have been the best passing big man in Arkansas history. He could also play much better lowpost defense than Stewart could.

Nolan and Pelphrey don't share the same offensive system. Wow..I can't believe what you posted.
UH OH!!!! Lookie what I found mr hawgadvocate! Look who compared miller to stewart. Look who also said mayberry did not drive to the hoop. LOL...go back and watch the 89-90-91 swc games on youtube. Maybe that will refresh your memory.
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HawgAdvocate

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #106 on: January 19, 2010, 04:59:18 pm »

Exactly! See this is someone who ACTUALLY understands the uptempo game. Defense creates offense and then when offense scores you set up the press to force teams into taking quick shots and repeat the cycle over again. Thats how runs are created in an uptempo style of game.

Put down the X-Box control, and come talk with us grown-ups.

Your "uptempo game" consists of fastbreak offense and FCP defense. The problem is, we ran offensive sets when we were not creating TOs. As soon as you can break down Nolan's half-court offense, please feel free.

LOL "dribble penetration" won't cut it either.

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HawgAdvocate

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #107 on: January 19, 2010, 05:01:06 pm »

UH OH!!!! Lookie what I found mr hawgadvocate! Look who compared miller to stewart. Look who also said mayberry did not drive to the hoop. LOL...go back and watch the 89-90-91 swc games on youtube. Maybe that will refresh your memory.

I never said I didn't compare Stewart to Miller. I said Miller was a better version of Stewart (better passer, better low post game, better defensively on the low block), and that's fact. Prove me wrong.

Oh wait, you'd rather dumb the conversation down to a 5th grade level. Oh well.
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HawgAdvocate

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #108 on: January 19, 2010, 05:02:26 pm »

Our style is not a spread pick and roll. LOL...you call yourself an authority? You think we run what the utah jazz run? LOL....You compared stewart to miller. DO I need to go find that post also? You must be bi-polar and forget half of what you type. Here I will go find that post and get right back to you.

All this talk, and yet you haven't been able to tell us what Nolan ran or what Pel runs (since it's not the spread P&R).

Keep digging.
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Danny J

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #109 on: January 19, 2010, 05:04:49 pm »

I never said I didn't compare Stewart to Miller. I said Miller was a better version of Stewart (better passer, better low post game, better defensively on the low block), and that's fact. Prove me wrong.

Oh wait, you'd rather dumb the conversation down to a 5th grade level. Oh well.
LOL...OK. So AFTER I went and found the statement you made AND POSTED IT IN BOLD LETTERS do you finally admit what you actually said. You still cant answer me why you think lane clogging bigmen wont work in an uptempo style of play. Remember  you are the one who argued that not me. If we are going to be successful in ANY style of play we need bigger bodies. Plain and simple. Delvon and marshawn do not constitute bigmen. Neither does waithe.
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HawgnCorona

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #110 on: January 19, 2010, 05:06:39 pm »

No one said we play exactly like Phoenix. It's also not very fair to compare NBA size to collegiate size. The fact we're bringing in a 6'9" wing in Waithe (and tried once with 6'7" Henry) does prove we're adding size. Fortson and Rotnei are stud talents, and we're lucky to have them. Rotnei is undersized for a usual SG, but in college he can get away with it the same way AJ Abrans, Juan Dixon, and so many others have over the years.

The Hogs have two big men in Powell and Washington. Comparing them to Phoenix, back before Gentry was named coach, they played small ball against the towers known as Shaq, Duncan, Yao, etc, and they were very good at it. Weren't they the best team in the league (during the regular season) during one of Nash's two MVP years? Nash is an awful defender, so his size means little in his conversation.

You're forcing an argument that doesn't exist.

HA, go back and look at your post about Shaq (he isnt as mobile or athletic now)and Steve! Thats why that did not work. You were the one trying to make the point about the type of system Pel uses . You Phx brought that up as your example and had Chiefsfan as your backup...so you can't now turn around an say its not a good comparsing when that is the model you used.

I said to you it was not a good example, even now Phx has big men in the offense and they use them...what I am saying to you and Chief is, this system you CAN use a big center he simply needs to be "athletic and mobile"

You are trying to support your argument solely based on what we currently have on the floor. Coaching wise we should know what our needs are. So, I go back to what I said early if this is the style you want to play then why have pieces that dont fit your system? 

You cant say someone else recruited Delvon.   But since he is here you might consider running a style of offense that best fits your piece you now have.
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Danny J

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #111 on: January 19, 2010, 05:08:25 pm »

All this talk, and yet you haven't been able to tell us what Nolan ran or what Pel runs (since it's not the spread P&R).

Keep digging.
LOL....you are the one who said we run the spread pick and roll. We run a basic motion offense predicated on dribble penetration, setting basic screens for jump shooters, dropping it off to the bigman down low and running cutters to the basket. That is a basic motion offense the same as nolan ran. GO LOOK IT UP ON GOOGLE! You clearly know nothing about basketball. Do I need to explain this any easier? LOL...quit trying to describe what pelphrey runs as a spread pick and roll....you show your ignorance.
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HawgAdvocate

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #112 on: January 19, 2010, 05:09:05 pm »

LOL...OK. So AFTER I went and found the statement you made AND POSTED IT IN BOLD LETTERS do you finally admit what you actually said. You still cant answer me why you think lane clogging bigmen wont work in an uptempo style of play. Remember  you are the one who argued that not me. If we are going to be successful in ANY style of play we need bigger bodies. Plain and simple. Delvon and marshawn do not constitute bigmen. Neither does waithe.

Ok child, let me break this down for you one last time.

Where did I ever say I did not compare Miller to Stewart?? Why do you feel so great about linking what I typed? I never said I didn't compare them. You're screaming about something that doesn't make sense.

I never said Miller was solely an outside shooter. Hell, he led the NCAA in FG% his junior year. That doesn't happen by solely shooting outside jumpers. But he COULD hit the 18 foot on most occasions. Hence why Day ripped LSU for 40+ when Shaq was having to come out of the paint to guard Miller.

I said a lane-clogging big man wouldn't work in our "style of play." I didn't say uptempo. Quote me on it. Oh wait, you can't.

If you can't keep up, maybe you should find something else to do. I'm dancing circles around you here, and unlike you, I don't have to make up my arguments to do it.
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Danny J

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #113 on: January 19, 2010, 05:09:59 pm »

MOTION OFFENSE!!!!!! For the mentally challenged!
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HawgAdvocate

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #114 on: January 19, 2010, 05:11:16 pm »

LOL....you are the one who said we run the spread pick and roll. We run a basic motion offense predicated on dribble penetration, setting basic screens for jump shooters, dropping it off to the bigman down low and running cutters to the basket. That is a basic motion offense the same as nolan ran. GO LOOK IT UP ON GOOGLE! You clearly know nothing about basketball. Do I need to explain this any easier? LOL...quit trying to describe what pelphrey runs as a spread pick and roll....you show your ignorance.

LOL ok Google master, show us all. You won't, because you can't. You went and looked up the motion offense online, otherwise the word "predicated" would never make it to this screen.

Like I said, you talk the talk, so walk the walk. Prove what you say.
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Danny J

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #115 on: January 19, 2010, 05:12:10 pm »

Ok child, let me break this down for you one last time.

Where did I ever say I did not compare Miller to Stewart?? Why do you feel so great about linking what I typed? I never said I didn't compare them. You're screaming about something that doesn't make sense.

I never said Miller was solely an outside shooter. Hell, he led the NCAA in FG% his junior year. That doesn't happen by solely shooting outside jumpers. But he COULD hit the 18 foot on most occasions. Hence why Day ripped LSU for 40+ when Shaq was having to come out of the paint to guard Miller.

I said a lane-clogging big man wouldn't work in our "style of play." I didn't say uptempo. Quote me on it. Oh wait, you can't.

If you can't keep up, maybe you should find something else to do. I'm dancing circles around you here, and unlike you, I don't have to make up my arguments to do it.
LOL...keep spinning. You keep saying "our style of play".  LET ME GUESS NOW YOU SAY THAT YOU NEVER SAID WE RUN THE SPREAD PICK AND ROLL AS OUR OFFENSE. LOL...we run a motion offense not a spread pick and roll. We may run a pick and roll from time to time but thats about it.
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Danny J

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #116 on: January 19, 2010, 05:13:57 pm »

LOL ok Google master, show us all. You won't, because you can't. You went and looked up the motion offense online, otherwise the word "predicated" would never make it to this screen.

Like I said, you talk the talk, so walk the walk. Prove what you say.
LOL...I will show you earlier in this post where I used the word predicated if you need me to? LOL....again....I proved you dont know what you are talking about and all you have to say is I do not know what predicated means. LOL....You are making my cheekbones hurt because I cant quit smiling.
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Danny J

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #117 on: January 19, 2010, 05:17:22 pm »

You piss me off because you are clueless. NOLANS OFFENSE WAS CREATING TURNOVERS ON DEFENSE AND DRIBBLE PENETRATION ON OFFENSE. It was a motion offense the same as pelphrey runs. It was predicated on running cutters to the basket. Pelphrey wants to basically run the same thing but hasnt. He hasnt because he hasnt recruited the players capable of running that type of offense which is based on turning teams over and forcing teams to take quick shots. We were a run a gun team who thrived on fast break points. If you dont know that and you need me to explain it to you then you really didnt watch nolan. What did nolan and anderson do to you because you really feel contempt towards both of them.
PS, uptempto doesnt simply mean "rushing" on offense. Uptempo style is based on turning teams over and forcing them into taking quick shots. It is trapping defense that plays full court. Pelphrey hasnt played a trapping full court defense since early last year.
Here you go. I told you I would go back and find it. Long before you posted that previous question I had already explained what a motion offense was before I told you to go look it up on google. Again..hard to spin the facts
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HawgAdvocate

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #118 on: January 19, 2010, 05:22:07 pm »

HA, go back and look at your post about Shaq (he isnt as mobile or athletic now)and Steve! Thats why that did not work. You were the one trying to make the point about the type of system Pel uses . You Phx brought that up as your example and had Chiefsfan as your backup...so you can't now turn around an say its not a good comparsing when that is the model you used.

Talking about the offense run by Phoenix back when they had Marion playing the 4 and Amare at the 5 is vastly different then when Shaq was at the 5 or even now which is no longer Da'ntoni's team. The Marion/Amare version of the Suns was much smaller than they are now with a larger frontcourt.

The Shaq/Nash example is a good one on why the spread P&R doesn't work. Shaq is no longer there because he couldn't fit the system.

I said to you it was not a good example, even now Phx has big men in the offense and they use them...what I am saying to you and Chief is, this system you CAN use a big center he simply needs to be "athletic and mobile"

Channing Frye is not slow footed or a lane clogger. Washington is 6'10" 240-ish? It wouldn't matter if Washington was 7'1", as long as he's as agile as he is, it will work fine. But if we had Lee Wilson, Shaq, Yao, etc,...then it won't work because they can't play off of Nash like Frye, Amare, etc..

You are trying to support your argument solely based on what we currently have on the floor. Coaching wise we should know what our needs are. So, I go back to what I said early if this is the style you want to play then why have pieces that dont fit your system? 

We do have the pieces. Washington and Powell are the types of players we need to run what pel wants to do. We just need more than what we have. We need depth. We need more outside shooters. We need a little more size on the perimeter. We need less TOs from Fort. 

You cant say someone else recruited Delvon.   But since he is here you might consider running a style of offense that best fits your piece you now have.

It doesn't matter what type of offense you run for Delvon, he doesn't have the skills to carry us on the interior. He's soft. He doesn't have a lot of effective moves on the low-block. He's depth, and not much else. Remember Alonzo Lane, Satchell, Gomez, etc?? Some guys just aren't meant to play 30+ minutes/game in the SEC.
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HawgAdvocate

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #119 on: January 19, 2010, 05:23:16 pm »

LOL...I will show you earlier in this post where I used the word predicated if you need me to? LOL....again....I proved you dont know what you are talking about and all you have to say is I do not know what predicated means. LOL....You are making my cheekbones hurt because I cant quit smiling.

Just like you Googeld it for this post you quoted...you're not fooling anyone.
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Danny J

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #120 on: January 19, 2010, 05:27:16 pm »

Just like you Googeld it for this post you quoted...you're not fooling anyone.
I would love to stay and argue with you about my intellect but I have other things to do. So adios amigos!
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heathtits

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #121 on: January 19, 2010, 10:53:55 pm »

HA knows exactly what he is talking about. I agree with everything he said.

He flipped out on me earlier, which is cool, and only helps show he isn't exactly as "calm and levelheaded" all the time as he wants everyone to think.

But it is true Nolan regularly ATE man to man defenses alive. Oliver Miller was the perfect man to do it with and HA is spot on about OM skill sets. To this day, there probably has never been a big man with those kind of hands. Not that I have seen anyway. Think Randy Moss in a 280ibs (at best) usually 300+ ibs body.

Anyway, that LSU game is the primo example of that. Everyone knows Todd Day being able to drive one on one without a safety was absolutely deadly. Just man among boys type deadly.

He did it with Stewart as well with the next teams, but Stewart wasn't the passer Oliver was and the 94 team has no Todd Day. But it did allow Corliss to go one on one in the post, which, much like Day, was usually impossible to defend.

The point is, getting caught up in "systems" is pretty stupid. ANY coach with half a brain, including John Pelphrey will adapt his system according the roster he has. Everyone knows teams CANNOT be replicated, just as players cannot be either. The best bet is to have a foundation for your system, which Donovan has, Nolan has, Anderson has, and all the other top guys have.

Hopefully with the next class we can see if Pelphrey has that sort plan himself.

And HA for the record, I may have taken your post wrong, but I feel you did the same with mine.

I meant filling the MW void is going to be a big issue next year and without someone of similar size and impact if you will, Pelphrey is going to have to adapt like I was talking about. Hopefully he has the capabilities to do that successfully.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 11:01:55 pm by heathtits »
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Foshodo

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #122 on: January 20, 2010, 01:57:58 am »

shame... i really wanted to come here and read about our 'big' situation next year... not our 'big' situation from like 15-20 years ago...
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Danny J

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #123 on: January 20, 2010, 01:59:40 am »

shame... i really wanted to come here and read about our 'big' situation next year... not our 'big' situation from like 15-20 years ago...
LOL...you mean dwight stewart and the bid O are not eligable anymore? Its a shame because we need some size come next year and I dont think delvon is going to cut it.
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Hogimus Prime

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Re: Our bigmen for next year.......
« Reply #124 on: January 20, 2010, 10:33:09 am »

We have to good big men for Pel's system in Powell and Washington but with Washington leaving after this year we really need two big men to replace him and for depth and by big men I mean guys in the 6'9" to 6'11" range in the 230 to 240 range. 

Outside of some teams like Kansas, and Kentucky most teams use more of the 6'9" 240 types inside
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