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Author Topic: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC  (Read 2436 times)

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TulsaHawg

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Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« on: November 02, 2005, 07:22:06 am »

I posted these stats in another thread, but I would like to present them on their own because I think they paint a picture different from the one that is portrayed by many.

Going by the perceptions from what you read on message boards and hear on talk shows, you might think that the offense would be dead last in almost every category in the SEC; especially since Arkansas' record is 2-5.

Here are the stats:

Arkansas ranks 4th in the SEC in Scoring Offense behind Auburn, LSU, and UGA.

Arkansas ranks last in Pass Offense.

Arkansas ranks 1st in Rushing Offense.

Arkansas ranks 5th in Total Offense.

Arkansas ranks 6th in first downs.

Arkansas ranks 2nd in 4th down conversions, and 9th in 3rd down conversions.

Arkansas ranks 5th in red zone offense; 2nd in sacks against; 4th in FG's.

We could go on, but let's take a look at some defensive rankings:

Arkansas is ranked last in Scoring Defense; 10th in Pass Defense; 10th in Turnover margin; 11th in Rushing Defense; 11th in Total Defense; 10th in Pass Defense Efficiency; 9th in Sacks By; and 11th in Red Zone Defense.


Frankly, those rankings in the offensive categories kind of surprised me.  After listening to all the negative talk about the offense, one gets the feeling after awhile that the total offense must be at the bottom. 4th in scoring offense and 5 the in total offense! Who would have thought that from a 2 & 5 team?

It is not accurate to only focus on the QB's inadequacies, or the lack of a passing game, or even the playcalling when we are near the bottom in all those defensive categories.

Yes, we certainly need a better passing game, and we need better play from the QB;  and no I don't agree with all of the playcalling;  but unless our defense improves, and not just a little bit, an improved offense will not necessarily be enough.

The good news is that the defense is showing signs of improvement.  If they play the way they did against UGA, we could have a big day against USC.
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LSUFan

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2005, 07:28:04 am »

Gee, seems like Reggie needs to leave with HDN.
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Tomhog™

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2005, 07:46:25 am »

One big eye sore on the offensive side is 9th in third down conversions.  This is the play that kills or makes the drives.  This play is when it's most obvious that we don't have a QB that can come through when the pressure is on.  We really need to improve at this point.  But the rest of the numbers was about what I expected.  We can move the ball and put up points, like we did last year.   Just giving up WAY too many.
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hawgbawb

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2005, 07:46:56 am »

Nice post TulsaHog.

I think the 3rd down conversions is pretty telling. The problem, I suspect, is that we can't pass reliably on 3rd and long, and everyone knows where's going to run on 3rd and short. A better passer who's cool in the pocket will go along way toward fixing that.

I also agree that the D has been the greater problem. Last year it was atrocious, but I see definite improvement. Hopefully we'll get a few recruit on thatt side tha can contribute quickly next year.

Which gets me to thinking...  I've heard complaints about us playing too many freshmen, and about us not playing them soon enough. The bottom line is we're playing more than "normal"  That's because the last two recruiting classes have been markedly better than the two preceding ones, despite what the "experts" have said. It's actually a good sign in a sense, because it means the successive recruiting classes are getting better.
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TulsaHawg

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2005, 07:49:42 am »

Were are we in the 2 Stats that matter ???

Scoring ?

and WINS / LOSSES ?

FIRE HDN!!!

In scoring?  As it says, we rank 4th in Scoring Offense.

Also, I stated that we are 2 & 5, but the question is why have we not won more games?  One mostly hears about the offense, and yes we do rank last in the passing category, but we are 5th in overall Offense, and near last in  several defensive categories.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2005, 07:55:48 am by TulsaHawg »
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TulsaHawg

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2005, 07:55:01 am »

Nice post TulsaHog.

I think the 3rd down conversions is pretty telling. The problem, I suspect, is that we can't pass reliably on 3rd and long, and everyone knows where's going to run on 3rd and short. A better passer who's cool in the pocket will go along way toward fixing that.

I also agree that the D has been the greater problem. Last year it was atrocious, but I see definite improvement. Hopefully we'll get a few recruit on thatt side tha can contribute quickly next year.

Which gets me to thinking... I've heard complaints about us playing too many freshmen, and about us not playing them soon enough. The bottom line is we're playing more than "normal" That's because the last two recruiting classes have been markedly better than the two preceding ones, despite what the "experts" have said. It's actually a good sign in a sense, because it means the successive recruiting classes are getting better.

Hawgbawb, I and others posted on here that Arkansas has played the most freshmen this year than any other D-1A school.  There was an article in the Tulsa World a few days ago pointing out how young OU is and that the Sooners are rated as being tied for 3rd in the number of Freshmen playing.  IT pointed out that the UA is 1st.  Now over here they are talking about how young OU is.

The Hogs are even younger!  That means the Hogs should be much improved next year. 

I also think the defense is improving.  This Saturday should show a lot.
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Biggus Piggus

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2005, 08:00:51 am »

One big eye sore on the offensive side is 9th in third down conversions. This is the play that kills or makes the drives. This play is when it's most obvious that we don't have a QB that can come through when the pressure is on. We really need to improve at this point. But the rest of the numbers was about what I expected. We can move the ball and put up points, like we did last year. Just giving up WAY too many.

That is where the QB shortfall especially hurts.  QB is HDN's greatest failing as a head coach.
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idochog

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2005, 08:05:17 am »

I posted these stats in another thread, but I would like to present them on their own because I think they paint a picture different from the one that is portrayed by many.

Going by the perceptions from what you read on message boards and hear on talk shows, you might think that the offense would be dead last in almost every category in the SEC; especially since Arkansas' record is 2-5.

Here are the stats:

Arkansas ranks 4th in the SEC in Scoring Offense behind Auburn, LSU, and UGA.

Arkansas ranks last in Pass Offense.

Arkansas ranks 1st in Rushing Offense.

Arkansas ranks 5th in Total Offense.

Arkansas ranks 6th in first downs.

Arkansas ranks 2nd in 4th down conversions, and 9th in 3rd down conversions.

Arkansas ranks 5th in red zone offense; 2nd in sacks against; 4th in FG's.

We could go on, but let's take a look at some defensive rankings:

Arkansas is ranked last in Scoring Defense; 10th in Pass Defense; 10th in Turnover margin; 11th in Rushing Defense; 11th in Total Defense; 10th in Pass Defense Efficiency; 9th in Sacks By; and 11th in Red Zone Defense.


Frankly, those rankings in the offensive categories kind of surprised me. After listening to all the negative talk about the offense, one gets the feeling after awhile that the total offense must be at the bottom. 4th in scoring offense and 5 the in total offense! Who would have thought that from a 2 & 5 team?

It is not accurate to only focus on the QB's inadequacies, or the lack of a passing game, or even the playcalling when we are near the bottom in all those defensive categories.

Yes, we certainly need a better passing game, and we need better play from the QB; and no I don't agree with all of the playcalling; but unless our defense improves, and not just a little bit, an improved offense will not necessarily be enough.

The good news is that the defense is showing signs of improvement. If they play the way they did against UGA, we could have a big day against USC.


Subtract out the games against Missouri St. and LaMo and then see how impressive the stats are.  Most of our offensive averages are based off the 2 wins over CRAPPY teams. 

I'll quote the guy on ESPN "Stats are for losers, the only one that matters is Are you scoring enough points to win?"
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TulsaHawg

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2005, 08:10:26 am »

I posted these stats in another thread, but I would like to present them on their own because I think they paint a picture different from the one that is portrayed by many.

Going by the perceptions from what you read on message boards and hear on talk shows, you might think that the offense would be dead last in almost every category in the SEC; especially since Arkansas' record is 2-5.

Here are the stats:

Arkansas ranks 4th in the SEC in Scoring Offense behind Auburn, LSU, and UGA.

Arkansas ranks last in Pass Offense.

Arkansas ranks 1st in Rushing Offense.

Arkansas ranks 5th in Total Offense.

Arkansas ranks 6th in first downs.

Arkansas ranks 2nd in 4th down conversions, and 9th in 3rd down conversions.

Arkansas ranks 5th in red zone offense; 2nd in sacks against; 4th in FG's.

We could go on, but let's take a look at some defensive rankings:

Arkansas is ranked last in Scoring Defense; 10th in Pass Defense; 10th in Turnover margin; 11th in Rushing Defense; 11th in Total Defense; 10th in Pass Defense Efficiency; 9th in Sacks By; and 11th in Red Zone Defense.


Frankly, those rankings in the offensive categories kind of surprised me. After listening to all the negative talk about the offense, one gets the feeling after awhile that the total offense must be at the bottom. 4th in scoring offense and 5 the in total offense! Who would have thought that from a 2 & 5 team?

It is not accurate to only focus on the QB's inadequacies, or the lack of a passing game, or even the playcalling when we are near the bottom in all those defensive categories.

Yes, we certainly need a better passing game, and we need better play from the QB; and no I don't agree with all of the playcalling; but unless our defense improves, and not just a little bit, an improved offense will not necessarily be enough.

The good news is that the defense is showing signs of improvement. If they play the way they did against UGA, we could have a big day against USC.


Subtract out the games against Missouri St. and LaMo and then see how impressive the stats are.  Most of our offensive averages are based off the 2 wins over CRAPPY teams. 

I'll quote the guy on ESPN "Stats are for losers, the only one that matters is Are you scoring enough points to win?"

So the other teams in the SEC didn't play any "crappy" teams in which their stats were inflated as well? 

As far as looking at these stats, it should help to focus on the reasons why  we have lost.
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idochog

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2005, 08:23:45 am »

I posted these stats in another thread, but I would like to present them on their own because I think they paint a picture different from the one that is portrayed by many.

Going by the perceptions from what you read on message boards and hear on talk shows, you might think that the offense would be dead last in almost every category in the SEC; especially since Arkansas' record is 2-5.

Here are the stats:

Arkansas ranks 4th in the SEC in Scoring Offense behind Auburn, LSU, and UGA.

Arkansas ranks last in Pass Offense.

Arkansas ranks 1st in Rushing Offense.

Arkansas ranks 5th in Total Offense.

Arkansas ranks 6th in first downs.

Arkansas ranks 2nd in 4th down conversions, and 9th in 3rd down conversions.

Arkansas ranks 5th in red zone offense; 2nd in sacks against; 4th in FG's.

We could go on, but let's take a look at some defensive rankings:

Arkansas is ranked last in Scoring Defense; 10th in Pass Defense; 10th in Turnover margin; 11th in Rushing Defense; 11th in Total Defense; 10th in Pass Defense Efficiency; 9th in Sacks By; and 11th in Red Zone Defense.


Frankly, those rankings in the offensive categories kind of surprised me. After listening to all the negative talk about the offense, one gets the feeling after awhile that the total offense must be at the bottom. 4th in scoring offense and 5 the in total offense! Who would have thought that from a 2 & 5 team?

It is not accurate to only focus on the QB's inadequacies, or the lack of a passing game, or even the playcalling when we are near the bottom in all those defensive categories.

Yes, we certainly need a better passing game, and we need better play from the QB; and no I don't agree with all of the playcalling; but unless our defense improves, and not just a little bit, an improved offense will not necessarily be enough.

The good news is that the defense is showing signs of improvement. If they play the way they did against UGA, we could have a big day against USC.


Subtract out the games against Missouri St. and LaMo and then see how impressive the stats are. Most of our offensive averages are based off the 2 wins over CRAPPY teams.

I'll quote the guy on ESPN "Stats are for losers, the only one that matters is Are you scoring enough points to win?"

So the other teams in the SEC didn't play any "crappy" teams in which their stats were inflated as well?

As far as looking at these stats, it should help to focus on the reasons why we have lost.

What those stats dont tell you is the # of times in the first half we didnt convert for points against VANDY.  Those stats dont tell you about 13yds in the 3rd quarter against Auburn.  Those stats also dont tell you we didnt get a 1st down against Vandy in the 4th quarter.  That is why stats are for losers.

The bottom line is the offense doesnt convert and it forces the defense to stay on the field.
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Biggus Piggus

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2005, 08:27:54 am »

OK, Tulsa, look at the SEC-only stats.

Reasons why we lost:

Vanderbilt--got 24 points out of nine great chances.  That means the offense wasted five, including an 18-play drive.  Went three-and-out twice in the fourth quarter, left the D on the field too long.

USC--completely overwhelmed on both sides, defense didn't even show.

Alabama--offense couldn't get a TD after a punt block set us up at the Bama 11 trailing by 4 points.  Johnson threw a pick at midfield after the D held Bama again and we had another chance to take the lead.

Auburn--offense took a pick and got stopped at the 2, got a field goal.  Drove from our 20 to the Tigers 11, and Johnson fumbled trying to double-pump.  Drove to Auburn 43 and threw a no-chance flat pass on third down to stop the drive.  Drove to Auburn 21 and had to settle for FG attempt, which was missed.  Should have put up a big lead, instead left the D on the field too long.  D was gassed at halftime.

Georgia--Johnson threw a pick that set up a UGa TD.  D recovered a fumble at the Georgia 16, offense netted zero yards and settled for 3.  Got at pick at the Georgia 34, missed a field goal.  Hillis fumbled a punt at our 19, led to the game-losing points.  Got the ball down by 3 with 2+ minutes left, went backwards.
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e_dub

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2005, 08:28:30 am »

Stats aren't always what they seem.  Didn't we have more yards than Georgia as well as more time of possession and they still won?  I'm not sure if I am remembering correctly but I think that was the case.  We lack the ability to score on decent defenses in the red zone, having to rely on McFadden breaking off a long one.
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TulsaHawg

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2005, 08:32:54 am »

OK, Tulsa, look at the SEC-only stats.

Reasons why we lost:

Vanderbilt--got 24 points out of nine great chances. That means the offense wasted five, including an 18-play drive. Went three-and-out twice in the fourth quarter, left the D on the field too long.

USC--completely overwhelmed on both sides, defense didn't even show.

Alabama--offense couldn't get a TD after a punt block set us up at the Bama 11 trailing by 4 points. Johnson threw a pick at midfield after the D held Bama again and we had another chance to take the lead.

Auburn--offense took a pick and got stopped at the 2, got a field goal. Drove from our 20 to the Tigers 11, and Johnson fumbled trying to double-pump. Drove to Auburn 43 and threw a no-chance flat pass on third down to stop the drive. Drove to Auburn 21 and had to settle for FG attempt, which was missed. Should have put up a big lead, instead left the D on the field too long. D was gassed at halftime.

Georgia--Johnson threw a pick that set up a UGa TD. D recovered a fumble at the Georgia 16, offense netted zero yards and settled for 3. Got at pick at the Georgia 34, missed a field goal. Hillis fumbled a punt at our 19, led to the game-losing points. Got the ball down by 3 with 2+ minutes left, went backwards.

When did Southern Cal join the SEC?
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Razorback Jedi

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2005, 09:58:12 am »

OK, Tulsa, look at the SEC-only stats.

Reasons why we lost:

Vanderbilt--got 24 points out of nine great chances. That means the offense wasted five, including an 18-play drive. Went three-and-out twice in the fourth quarter, left the D on the field too long.

USC--completely overwhelmed on both sides, defense didn't even show.

Alabama--offense couldn't get a TD after a punt block set us up at the Bama 11 trailing by 4 points. Johnson threw a pick at midfield after the D held Bama again and we had another chance to take the lead.

Auburn--offense took a pick and got stopped at the 2, got a field goal. Drove from our 20 to the Tigers 11, and Johnson fumbled trying to double-pump. Drove to Auburn 43 and threw a no-chance flat pass on third down to stop the drive. Drove to Auburn 21 and had to settle for FG attempt, which was missed. Should have put up a big lead, instead left the D on the field too long. D was gassed at halftime.

Georgia--Johnson threw a pick that set up a UGa TD. D recovered a fumble at the Georgia 16, offense netted zero yards and settled for 3. Got at pick at the Georgia 34, missed a field goal. Hillis fumbled a punt at our 19, led to the game-losing points. Got the ball down by 3 with 2+ minutes left, went backwards.

When did Southern Cal join the SEC?

Maybe he's a prophet and referring to the upcoming USC game ;)
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HogPsych

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2005, 10:03:03 am »

I fear the 2 sides are going different directions - d is getting better (would like to see those stats minus the USC game by the way), and our O is getting worse. 
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DukeOfPork

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2005, 10:04:03 am »

I posted these stats in another thread, but I would like to present them on their own because I think they paint a picture different from the one that is portrayed by many.

Going by the perceptions from what you read on message boards and hear on talk shows, you might think that the offense would be dead last in almost every category in the SEC; especially since Arkansas' record is 2-5.

Here are the stats:

Arkansas ranks 4th in the SEC in Scoring Offense behind Auburn, LSU, and UGA.

Arkansas ranks last in Pass Offense.

Arkansas ranks 1st in Rushing Offense.

Arkansas ranks 5th in Total Offense.

Arkansas ranks 6th in first downs.

Arkansas ranks 2nd in 4th down conversions, and 9th in 3rd down conversions.

Arkansas ranks 5th in red zone offense; 2nd in sacks against; 4th in FG's.

We could go on, but let's take a look at some defensive rankings:

Arkansas is ranked last in Scoring Defense; 10th in Pass Defense; 10th in Turnover margin; 11th in Rushing Defense; 11th in Total Defense; 10th in Pass Defense Efficiency; 9th in Sacks By; and 11th in Red Zone Defense.


Frankly, those rankings in the offensive categories kind of surprised me. After listening to all the negative talk about the offense, one gets the feeling after awhile that the total offense must be at the bottom. 4th in scoring offense and 5 the in total offense! Who would have thought that from a 2 & 5 team?

It is not accurate to only focus on the QB's inadequacies, or the lack of a passing game, or even the playcalling when we are near the bottom in all those defensive categories.

Yes, we certainly need a better passing game, and we need better play from the QB; and no I don't agree with all of the playcalling; but unless our defense improves, and not just a little bit, an improved offense will not necessarily be enough.

The good news is that the defense is showing signs of improvement. If they play the way they did against UGA, we could have a big day against USC.



Moral victories kick ass!

Thanks for the stats, that makes being tied for last in a 12 team league so much more palatable....
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SultanofSwine

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2005, 10:06:57 am »

THawg, why did you not also post the stats BP included in the other thread that clearly showed marked improvement in our Defense? This is a chicken stuff thread, wipe your tail feathers again you missed a spot.
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SultanofSwine

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2005, 10:09:11 am »

Compliments of BP...


We are ranked near the bottom in so many defensive categories because in one game, our defense gave up

70 points--rest of season average 23.5 (would rank 9th in SEC)
736 yards--rest of season average 338 (8th in SEC)
11 yards per play--rest of season average 4.9 (9th in SEC)
32 first downs--rest of season average 19 (8th in SEC)
10 touchdowns--rest of season average 2.7 (8th in SEC)
291 yards rushing--rest of season average 150 (9th in SEC)
8.8 yards per carry--rest of season average 3.85 (9th in SEC)
4 rushing TDs--rest of season average 1.0 (5th in SEC)
23-34-0 passing for 445 yards and 6 TDs--rest of season average 15-30-1 188 1.7 TDs
68% completion--rest of season average 50% (3rd in SEC)
13 yards per attempt--rest of season average 6 (7th in SEC)
19 yards per completion--rest of season average 12 (10th in SEC)

What you are not considering is what the offense and defense were trying to do this season.  The offense was trying not to fall too far from its high productivity in 2003-04.  The defense was trying to recover from slippage in 2003 and disaster in 2004.  The plan for 2005 was not to ask the defense to go from 12th in the league to first.  The plan was to continue averaging 30 points a game while getting the defense down to the low 20s, which is where it is excluding the Southern Cal disaster.

It doesn't make sense to say the Hogs are losing games because the defense isn't above average.  It never was expected to be.  It was expected to be improved.

Herring's biggest failing this season was not coming up with a free safety soon enough.  That shows in the high yards per completion and pass TD stats.  As Herring has adjusted the personnel, the pass D has improved.

Let's look at those again.

Ex-USC defense averages:

Points 23.5 (2004 average 24.5)
Total yardage 338 (2004 average 397)
Yards per play 4.9 (2004 average 6.1)
First downs 19 (2004 average 19)
TDs per game 2.7 (2004 average 3.0)
Rushing yards 150 (2004 average 180)
Yards per carry 3.85 (2004 average 4.6)
Rush TDs 1.0 (2004 average 1.4)
Passing 15-30-1 188 1.7 TDs (2004 average 16-26-0.5 217 yards 1.6 TDs)
Completion 50% (2004 average 60%)
Yards per pass attempt 6 (2004 average 8.3)
Yards per completion 12 (2004 average 14)

I can't say the defensive changes have been a complete success.  We made no progress on first downs, or in giving up TD passes.  The defense has played well in long stretches, then spoiled the good work by giving up a big play.

Regardless of the stats, the defense gave the offense opportunities in most games, and the offense squandered most of those chances.
 
 
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hawgbawb

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2005, 11:56:59 am »

I posted these stats in another thread, but I would like to present them on their own because I think they paint a picture different from the one that is portrayed by many.

Going by the perceptions from what you read on message boards and hear on talk shows, you might think that the offense would be dead last in almost every category in the SEC; especially since Arkansas' record is 2-5.

Here are the stats:

Arkansas ranks 4th in the SEC in Scoring Offense behind Auburn, LSU, and UGA.

Arkansas ranks last in Pass Offense.

Arkansas ranks 1st in Rushing Offense.

Arkansas ranks 5th in Total Offense.

Arkansas ranks 6th in first downs.

Arkansas ranks 2nd in 4th down conversions, and 9th in 3rd down conversions.

Arkansas ranks 5th in red zone offense; 2nd in sacks against; 4th in FG's.

We could go on, but let's take a look at some defensive rankings:

Arkansas is ranked last in Scoring Defense; 10th in Pass Defense; 10th in Turnover margin; 11th in Rushing Defense; 11th in Total Defense; 10th in Pass Defense Efficiency; 9th in Sacks By; and 11th in Red Zone Defense.


Frankly, those rankings in the offensive categories kind of surprised me. After listening to all the negative talk about the offense, one gets the feeling after awhile that the total offense must be at the bottom. 4th in scoring offense and 5 the in total offense! Who would have thought that from a 2 & 5 team?

It is not accurate to only focus on the QB's inadequacies, or the lack of a passing game, or even the playcalling when we are near the bottom in all those defensive categories.

Yes, we certainly need a better passing game, and we need better play from the QB; and no I don't agree with all of the playcalling; but unless our defense improves, and not just a little bit, an improved offense will not necessarily be enough.

The good news is that the defense is showing signs of improvement. If they play the way they did against UGA, we could have a big day against USC.


Subtract out the games against Missouri St. and LaMo and then see how impressive the stats are.  Most of our offensive averages are based off the 2 wins over CRAPPY teams. 

I'll quote the guy on ESPN "Stats are for losers, the only one that matters is Are you scoring enough points to win?"

That's pretty weak idochog, considering we've played the toughest schedule in the country. We've played 4 top 20 teams, and two top five teams.
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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2005, 12:14:06 pm »

In SEC games (all four), Arkansas has averaged 333 total yards.  But, that is neither here nor there...

SEC games only.  It seems Arkansas has a mental lapse in the second half.  During the first half of the SEC games, they have a YPP (yards per point) average of 23.8.  Pretty futile.  The defense didn't do much either.  They were giving up 15.0 YPP. 

In the second half, it seems Arkansas' numbers seem to improve.  They have a YPP of 14.0 in the second half.  But, the the defense gave up 10.9.  Sign of the offense not doing much and getting tired?  Only the Vanderbilt game that Arkansas had a better YPP in the second half (10.6 to 16.1).  But, Arkansas threw away that second half.  Conservative leads to few points; and that was only one 10 points.

If Arkansas had a productive first half, it would benefit everyone.  Arkansas has to jump on SC early on Saturday.  Give the defense some rest, and confidence. 
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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2005, 12:19:16 pm »

I think Hogville needs an official "apologist extraordinaire" for our beloved Nutt.
At this point I would have a hard time picking between Bawb and Tulsa for the job.

 ;)
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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2005, 12:20:18 pm »

The SOS I was using has Arkansas #7.

Quote
Last Updated: 01-Nov              Opponent  Opp-Opp                   Last        Full
Rank Team                    W   L   W   L    W    L     SOS  Quartile Week  +/-    SOS   Diff
  1  Oklahoma                5   3  40  14  200  204   0.6588   0.04     1     0   0.16   0.12
  2  Tennessee               3   4  32  13  167  159   0.6448   0.08     2     0   0.28   0.20
  3  Ohio State              6   2  39  17  234  207   0.6412   0.12     4     1   0.12   0.00
  4  Michigan                6   3  43  19  259  239   0.6357   0.16     3    -1   0.04  -0.12
  5  Minnesota               5   3  38  21  249  198   0.6151   0.20    10     5   0.32   0.12
  6  North Carolina          3   4  30  14  155  179   0.6092   0.24    13     7   0.40   0.16
  7  Arkansas                1   5  29  13  132  171   0.6055   0.28     8     1   0.20  -0.08

Also, projected to end up #5 at the end of the season.
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JDW

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2005, 12:28:37 pm »

One big eye sore on the offensive side is 9th in third down conversions. This is the play that kills or makes the drives. This play is when it's most obvious that we don't have a QB that can come through when the pressure is on. We really need to improve at this point. But the rest of the numbers was about what I expected. We can move the ball and put up points, like we did last year. Just giving up WAY too many.

I think you've hit the mark Tomcat. 9th for 3rd down conversions is what has been a huge factor in killing the team. Make more and the drives contiue, D stays off the field a little longer, builds more confidence on both sides of the ball, and possibly a chance to put a few more points on the board.

Lets hope this weekend we have a QB that can do that for us.

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silvertip

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2005, 12:30:11 pm »

Excellent post by SultanofSwine. Appears the D is better than last year & most of us have noticed the improvement as the season goes on.

TulsaHawg, I suspect your stats in the first thread are for the Total season? I know they can be found at secsports.com. I think it would be more meaningful to compare SEC teams based on SEC-season stats. I'm going to go look for that---which I think might be also at the secsports.com That will eliminate every team's stats vs the cupcakes.

Hogs SEASON offensive stats are "inflated" by the MO St & LA Monroe games. Take those out & the O will not look as good.

Hogs SEASON defense stats are "damaged" by the USC game. Take those out & the D will look better.

So, I predict that in SEC games only, Hog D will look better & Hog O will look worse than the stats quoted by TulsaHawg---if, in fact, he is using season long stats. I will return with SEC-season stats if I can find them. 
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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2005, 12:40:57 pm »

We only argue over "stats" post because we have a losing football team mired in mediocrity.

How can anyone be so dense as to believe that a few cherry-picked stats can gloss over an 8 yr record of (lack of)achievement???

Were any of you also involved in our WMD intelligence??
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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2005, 12:50:29 pm »

For one, stats talk actually brings some diversity to things.

You can only say "Nutt Sucks.  Fire him" so many times, and so many ways.  Have to change things up, talk about something that is halfway positive.  You'll be looking like Bob Barker 30 years too early if you constantly go that way.
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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2005, 01:03:40 pm »

bomis, I understand where you are coming from. But the only stat that matters is W-L.
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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2005, 01:08:04 pm »

I agree that W's are the only true stats that matter.  But, for whatever staff comes in, stats are something to ponder at.  It isn't all bad. 
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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2005, 01:51:51 pm »

THawg, why did you not also post the stats BP included in the other thread that clearly showed marked improvement in our Defense? This is a chicken stuff thread, wipe your tail feathers again you missed a spot.

Sutan, please allow me to refer you to the stats site: http://www.secsports.com/new/sports/fbc/05stats/confldrs.htm

Before you start talking about chicken darn, perhaps you should make sure you aren't standing in it.
;)
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silvertip

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2005, 01:59:31 pm »

wacohog, expect to hear in the next few years that the wmds are "really" in Syria or Iran.

Back to football. I can't find stats for all the SEC teams in SEC games only. Anybody know where?

I think the most important stat I've seen in this thread is Hogs 9th in SEC 3rd-down conversions. Which is why we settle for 3 points or less even when we get the breaks---see Auburn game.

Which also leads to the Hogs being around 8th in the Time-of-Possession stat, despite leading the SEC in rushing. This is supposed to be how the almighty running game is supposed to "eat up the clock" and "limit the other team's offense." The "ball control game" that HDN preaches has seldom worked in HDN's tenure. Despite being one of top running teams in the SEC every year, the Hogs typically lose out on the Time-of-Possesion year after year.

The main reason for poor 3rd down conversions is another stat---average yards per pass attempt. At about 5.3, Hogs are last in the SEC & near last in the nation. Most coaches realize that you're not going to get a 1st down on 3rd & long by throwing a screen pass or flat pass for 3yds & "hoping" the receiver can run for the rest.

So, poor yds/pass attempt=poor 3rd down conversions=too many stalled drives, 3-and-outs, or FGs instead of TDs; as well as losing the time-of-possession game & keeping your defense on the field too long. Our running game stats are inflated by the long runs by a Matt Jones or Felix Jones, Fred Talley, McFadden, Cobbs. But more often than not, the running game or a penalty leads to 3rd & long & then our thumb-sucker OC has no answer.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2005, 02:03:49 pm by silvertip »
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TulsaHawg

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2005, 02:02:11 pm »

wacohog, expect to hear in the next few years that the wmds are "really" in Syria or Iran.

Back to football. I can't find stats for all the SEC teams in SEC games only. Anybody know where?

I think the most important stat I've seen in this thread is Hogs 9th in SEC 3rd-down conversions. Which is why we settle for 3 points or less even when we get the breaks---see Auburn game.

Which also leads to the Hogs being around 8th in the Time-of-Possession stat, despite leading the SEC in rushing. This is supposed to be how the almighty running game is supposed to "eat up the clock" and "limit the other team's offense." The "ball control game" that HDN preaches has seldom worked in HDN's tenure. Despite being one of top running teams in the SEC every year, the Hogs typically lose out on the Time-of-Possesion year after year.

The main reason for poor 3rd down conversions is another stat---average yards per pass attempt. At about 5.3, Hogs are last in the SEC & near last in the nation. Most coaches realize that you're not going to get a 1st down on 3rd & long by throwing a screen pass or flat pass for 3yds & "hoping" the receiver can run for the rest.

So, poor yds/pass attempt=poor 3rd down conversions=too many FGs instead of TDs as well as losing the time-of-possession game & keeping your defense on the field too long. Our running game stats are inflated by the long runs by a Matt Jones or Felix Jones, Fred Talley, McFadden, Cobbs. But more often than not, the running game or a penalty leads to 3rd & long & then our thumb-sucker OC has no answer.

Silver, I think that in order to get the SEC games only, you may have to go through each team's schedule and actually take out the non-con games.  Not sure, but Biggus probably knows. He is great with stats.
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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2005, 02:14:18 pm »

We have been throwing the stuff the D is freely willing to surrender, and that's it this year.  Weird.  A team with two great tailbacks can't play-action.  UNTIL NOW!!!!! Just you watch.  We will Dick the Cocks.
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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2005, 02:16:58 pm »

THawg, I know all about what the stats on secsports say, I look at them regularly. That was never the question. As for standing in chicken stuff, this is a thread started by you. Didn't think about that did ya?
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TulsaHawg

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2005, 02:17:20 pm »

We have been throwing the stuff the D is freely willing to surrender, and that's it this year. Weird. A team with two great tailbacks can't play-action. UNTIL NOW!!!!! Just you watch. We will Dick the Cocks.

I sure hope so BP.  I sure hope so.

The only thing I can figure is that RJ just performs better in practice than he does in games. 

I won't be surprised  to see RJ at WR at some point.  What do you think? 

That's what OU did with Paul Thompson.  He started the year at QB, and now he is the leading receiver.
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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2005, 02:19:10 pm »

THawg, I know all about what the stats on secsports say, I look at them regularly. That was never the question. As for standing in chicken stuff, this is a thread started by you. Didn't think about that did ya?

Oh I know very well who started the thread Sultan.  And the stats I quoted are directly from the SEC.

Wipe your feet now.
  8)
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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2005, 02:24:53 pm »

Again, that stats you posted were never in question the fact that seem intent to praise the offense and blame the defense when it is so glaringly incorrect is the point. The defense has made steady improvement and the offense is stuck in nuetral but you seem to not be capable of recognizing this fact. However, that point in and of itself is moot when one considers the fact that all responsibility for this program rest at the feet of HDN but he has never that I remember accepted any responsibility for any of the shortcomings of this team. The closest he has ever come to accepting blame is to say something along the lines of "we need to get that fixed". How is it possible for you or anyone else not to see that?
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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2005, 02:27:23 pm »

Again, that stats you posted were never in question the fact that seem intent to praise the offense and blame the defense when it is so glaringly incorrect is the point. The defense has made steady improvement and the offense is stuck in nuetral but you seem to not be capable of recognizing this fact. However, that point in and of itself is moot when one considers the fact that all responsibility for this program rest at the feet of HDN but he has never that I remember accepted any responsibility for any of the shortcomings of this team. The closest he has ever come to accepting blame is to say something along the lines of "we need to get that fixed". How is it possible for you or anyone else not to see that?

Please Sultan, show me which stats I posted are incorrect.

I'll be waiting.  And waiting a long time............
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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2005, 02:30:53 pm »

If it takes telling you three times the stats you posted ARE NOT IN QUESTION, then there it is. Deal with what you have been asked. How blind do you have to be not to see that HDN's micromanagement has caused gross mismanagement of the entire program?
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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2005, 02:35:23 pm »

If it takes telling you three times the stats you posted ARE NOT IN QUESTION, then there it is. Deal with what you have been asked. How blind do you have to be not to see that HDN's micromanagement has caused gross mismanagement of the entire program?

Sultan, please explain this quote from uhhhhhh. .......oh it's from YOU!

"This is a chicken stuff thread, wipe your tail feathers again you missed a spot."[/
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SultanofSwine

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2005, 02:40:32 pm »

You dug up some stats that are an inaccurate representation of this season in totality based on the original discussion  and spun them to fit your argument. That fits well within my definition of a chicken stuff post. Care to take a stab at any of my questions directed squarely at you or will you keep ducking.
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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2005, 02:52:59 pm »

You dug up some stats that are an inaccurate representation of this season in totality based on the original discussion and spun them to fit your argument. That fits well within my definition of a chicken stuff post. Care to take a stab at any of my questions directed squarely at you or will you keep ducking.

Again, please show me which stats are "inaccurate"...and please be specific.
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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2005, 03:06:33 pm »

You are either the dumbest sumbuck in the world or just trying to piss me off but you should know I am getting a real good laugh and have been. Since reading comprehension escapes you, the stats are not inaccurate that you posted, they are literal for the season. What they do not address is that the defense has steadily improved and is in reality better than the defense last year. They are grossly inflated by the USC loss we mailed in instead of going to play.

I am through answering you until yours drop and you take a stab at answering anything I have asked. But I figure you will keep ducking because we both know your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.
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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2005, 03:10:39 pm »

You are either the dumbest sumbuck in the world or just trying to piss me off but you should know I am getting a real good laugh and have been. Since reading comprehension escapes you, the stats are not inaccurate that you posted, they are literal for the season. What they do not address is that the defense has steadily improved and is in reality better than the defense last year. They are grossly inflated by the USC loss we mailed in instead of going to play.

I am through answering you until yours drop and you take a stab at answering anything I have asked. But I figure you will keep ducking because we both know your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.


Oh Sultan that's great news!!  When exactly did they drop the USC game?

BTW, stop trying to "gravytrain "  off of BP's takes.  Try doing your own work.
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SultanofSwine

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2005, 03:20:12 pm »

I believe it was the third game of the year, you know the one where every football fan in America laughed thier asses off at our ineptness.

I am not gravytraining off of anything. I posted BP's post from the other thread and credited it to him very clearly. Regardless the questions I have asked you directly have nothing to do with his or your stats. Keep ducking though, you are certainly good at that.
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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2005, 03:23:09 pm »

I believe it was the third game of the year, you know the one where every football fan in America laughed thier asses off at our ineptness.

I am not gravytraining off of anything. I posted BP's post from the other thread and credited it to him very clearly. Regardless the questions I have asked you directly have nothing to do with his or your stats. Keep ducking though, you are certainly good at that.


Quote from Sultan's previous post:  "I am through answering you until yours drop and you take a stab at answering anything I have asked. "

And what does he do?  Blah, Blah, Blah.  Can't trust a thing he says.
;D
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RazorWire

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2005, 03:27:48 pm »

I posted these stats in another thread, but I would like to present them on their own because I think they paint a picture different from the one that is portrayed by many.

Going by the perceptions from what you read on message boards and hear on talk shows, you might think that the offense would be dead last in almost every category in the SEC; especially since Arkansas' record is 2-5.

Here are the stats:

Arkansas ranks 4th in the SEC in Scoring Offense behind Auburn, LSU, and UGA.

Arkansas ranks last in Pass Offense.

Arkansas ranks 1st in Rushing Offense.

Arkansas ranks 5th in Total Offense.

Arkansas ranks 6th in first downs.

Arkansas ranks 2nd in 4th down conversions, and 9th in 3rd down conversions.

Arkansas ranks 5th in red zone offense; 2nd in sacks against; 4th in FG's.

We could go on, but let's take a look at some defensive rankings:

Arkansas is ranked last in Scoring Defense; 10th in Pass Defense; 10th in Turnover margin; 11th in Rushing Defense; 11th in Total Defense; 10th in Pass Defense Efficiency; 9th in Sacks By; and 11th in Red Zone Defense.


Frankly, those rankings in the offensive categories kind of surprised me. After listening to all the negative talk about the offense, one gets the feeling after awhile that the total offense must be at the bottom. 4th in scoring offense and 5 the in total offense! Who would have thought that from a 2 & 5 team?

It is not accurate to only focus on the QB's inadequacies, or the lack of a passing game, or even the playcalling when we are near the bottom in all those defensive categories.

Yes, we certainly need a better passing game, and we need better play from the QB; and no I don't agree with all of the playcalling; but unless our defense improves, and not just a little bit, an improved offense will not necessarily be enough.

The good news is that the defense is showing signs of improvement. If they play the way they did against UGA, we could have a big day against USC.


Subtract out the games against Missouri St. and LaMo and then see how impressive the stats are.  Most of our offensive averages are based off the 2 wins over CRAPPY teams. 

I'll quote the guy on ESPN "Stats are for losers, the only one that matters is Are you scoring enough points to win?"

Ok then if we're going to do that, Throw out the USC game too.
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SultanofSwine

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2005, 03:28:50 pm »

You didn't ask a question but you obviously missed that point. You duck so well a midget couldn't hit your ass but I digress. You might try answering my questions or you can keep lobbing softballs and I will keep hitting them out.

Please feel free to explain how anyone, yourself included, could be blind enough not to see that HDN is not only entirely responsible for this mess of a program but refuses to take responsibility for it?
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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2005, 03:30:57 pm »

You didn't ask a question but you obviously missed that point. You duck so well a midget couldn't hit your ass but I digress. You might try answering my questions or you can keep lobbing softballs and I will keep hitting them out.

Please feel free to explain how anyone, yourself included, could be blind enough not to see that HDN is not only entirely responsible for this mess of a program but refuses to take responsibility for it?

Sultan, excuse me.  Are you still talking to little ol' me after you said, "I am through answering you until yours drop and you take a stab at answering anything I have asked. "
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Hog1751

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #48 on: November 02, 2005, 03:56:12 pm »

Remove the 736 yards we gave up against USC and the defense is middle of the pack trust me Ive looked at it. Our problems have been bad time management (HDN) Passing (RoJo) Half assed play calling (HDN) Turnovers  (Team) Lack of preparedness (Team, defense in particular) and finally calling plays not to lose (HDN). The problems are every where you cant just look at the stats, I wonder what our offense looks like if you remove the 1-aa opponent and Louisiana Directional from the mix?
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TulsaHawg

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Re: Comparing the Hog's Offensive and Defensive rankings in the SEC
« Reply #49 on: November 02, 2005, 04:03:50 pm »

Remove the 736 yards we gave up against USC and the defense is middle of the pack trust me Ive looked at it. Our problems have been bad time management (HDN) Passing (RoJo) Half assed play calling (HDN) Turnovers (Team) Lack of preparedness (Team, defense in particular) and finally calling plays not to lose (HDN). The problems are every where you cant just look at the stats, I wonder what our offense looks like if you remove the 1-aa opponent and Louisiana Directional from the mix?

To be accurate you would need to go through and remove the cupcakes from all the SEC schools' schedules.
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