Arkansas Mountian Lions

[hogdiggity]

:razorback:

Nice set of pics RRH.  Looks like it could be from around Grannis by the terrain. 

[Southerneyes]

Notice the tag in the cats ear??........These are the same pics but they are claiming these cats are in MO......http://www.lakestockton.com/read.php?51,42741

[hogdiggity]

Notice the tag in the cats ear??

I guess I am missing it, which pic do you see it in?

[Southerneyes]

4th pic down the cat standing over the one eating the doe you can see the red/pink tag in its ear............or look in the link I posted same cats and you can see the tags better.

[hogdiggity]

4th pic down the cat standing over the one eating the doe you can see the red/pink tag in its ear............or look in the link I posted same cats and you can see the tags better.

thanks, the link is much easier to see

[David†]

So what does the tag prove? That the cat was tagged?

[Southerneyes]

So what does the tag prove? That the cat was tagged?

That possibly the cats are penned, when I first saw this pic the thing that stood out to me was seeing 3 cats together like that....whats the odds of seeing 3 grown Mt. Lions together??...slim I would say......... 

[RedRiverHog]

That possibly the cats are penned, when I first saw this pic the thing that stood out to me was seeing 3 cats together like that....whats the odds of seeing 3 grown Mt. Lions together??...slim I would say......... 

A pride of lions....

[woodrow hog call]

In the email I have the pics are bigger and better, but I 'am not sure thats a tag, something there maybe a cut or wound, I could not tell for sure.

[Wayne Watson]

In the email I have the pics are bigger and better, but I 'am not sure thats a tag, something there maybe a cut or wound, I could not tell for sure.

Looked like blood to me.  I'll try to lighten the pics later.

[HuntinHog]

Yall are nothing but a bunch of tin foil hat loons.  Those are 3 house cats chewing on a fawn a coyote or something left for them.   

[Albert Einswine]

A pride of lions....

What is the social structure of mountain lions?  Are they anything at all like the lions of the African plains?

I don't have any knowledge of it and can't speak to it.

[twistitup]

In the near future, I'm going to buy an electronic predator call, go back home for the weekend and see what I can shoot.

I am hoping for coyote, cougar, bobcats, and maybe the elusive big black cat (aka black panther)...my question is this -

Will I get in trouble (or famous) if I do shoot a large black cat (panther, cougar, etc...)? Are they protected?

[RedRiverHog]

As for the pics, here's the deal....I know we're talking about cats in Arkansas but..... I don't care what county, state or country I'm hunting in, If I'm in my deer stand and those sumb!tches come by me chasing a deer (or not chasing) I'm blasting with everything I have.

Cause if they're around you may be the next thing getting chased!!

[RedRiverHog]

What is the social structure of mountain lions?  Are they anything at all like the lions of the African plains?

I don't have any knowledge of it and can't speak to it.

Me neither, I'm just guessing but you know they procreate and most male animals have several females they breed. also pack hunting is pretty common in the wild.

[RedRiverHog]

In the near future, I'm going to buy an electronic predator call, go back home for the weekend and see what I can shoot.

I am hoping for coyote, cougar, bobcats, and maybe the elusive big black cat (aka black panther)...my question is this -

Will I get in trouble (or famous) if I do shoot a large black cat (panther, cougar, etc...)? Are they protected?

Just lay a current local newspaper down beside it and take a picture. Don't know about the rest but that will do for me.

[Wayne Watson]

I think I see the tag.  Still not too clear.

[hogdiggity]

In the near future, I'm going to buy an electronic predator call, go back home for the weekend and see what I can shoot.

I am hoping for coyote, cougar, bobcats, and maybe the elusive big black cat (aka black panther)...my question is this -

Will I get in trouble (or famous) if I do shoot a large black cat (panther, cougar, etc...)? Are they protected?

In Arkansas they do not officially exist and are not regulated, from what I can tell on the AGFC web site, so I say go for it if you are in Ark, otherwise check your local regulations.  Either way, if you felt you were in "danger" you would be fine! 

[Wayne Watson]

In Arkansas they do not officially exist and are not regulated, from what I can tell on the AGFC web site, so I say go for it if you are in Ark, otherwise check your local regulations.  Either way, if you felt you were in "danger" you would be fine! 

Louisiana will have your a$$.

http://www.louisianasportsman.com/details.php?id=1542

[hogdiggity]

Louisiana will have your a$$.

http://www.louisianasportsman.com/details.php?id=1542

may happen in Ark too, it said state and FEDERAL law.  But one thing for sure it would be fine if you were in danger.  I have a friend that was on a whitetail hunt in another state and was rattling, caught movement out of the corner of his eye and reacted just in time to shoot (from the hip) a mt. lion lunging at him, it landed at his feet.  The game and fish in that state took the animal to study it but no fines were given, interestingly they wouldn't let him have the animal back (he's a taxidermist)

[woodrow hog call]

twist, you will be famous for sure, at least around here. We will elevate you to porkthis status immediately. jk

[twistitup]

Wayne,
If these cats are protected by FEDERAL law, why is everyone so surprised that more aren't killed by hunters?

I now understand how the fish and game keeps people under their thumb.....it's hard to prove the existence of an animal if it is against the law to kill one.

So, how can I prove the existence of a big black cats (panthers) if they can't be killed? Pictures obviously don't work because everyone will claim they have been altered. Seems like a big Catch 22 to me....

[Wayne Watson]

Wayne,
If these cats are protected by FEDERAL law, why is everyone so surprised that more aren't killed by hunters?

I now understand how the fish and game keeps people under their thumb.....it's hard to prove the existence of an animal if it is against the law to kill one.

So, how can I prove the existence of a big black cats (panthers) if they can't be killed? Pictures obviously don't work because everyone will claim they have been altered. Seems like a big Catch 22 to me....

It is a catch 22.  People with big degrees don't want the common man proving them wrong.  We have a damn woodpecker in Arkansas that was extinct years ago.  Not confirmed yet but you can buy a license plate with one on it.

[RedRiverHog]

Wayne,
If these cats are protected by FEDERAL law, why is everyone so surprised that more aren't killed by hunters?

I now understand how the fish and game keeps people under their thumb.....it's hard to prove the existence of an animal if it is against the law to kill one.

So, how can I prove the existence of a big black cats (panthers) if they can't be killed? Pictures obviously don't work because everyone will claim they have been altered. Seems like a big Catch 22 to me....

Take the picture as I said (without you in it of course) and post it.......hey you saw it on a message board somewhere or got it in some email, thought it would be a cool thing to share with your HG buddies to end the debate.........

[DoggtownHog]

If I were alone in the woods and saw a MT. Lion, I'd shoot it. I wouldn't take the chance of being hunted by the creature. It's called being proactive. Kill the problem before it kills you.
My personal opinion is that we do have cougars in our state, not alot, but a few breeding pairs. I think it is probably a combination of wild and released animals meeting up. With so many deer in our state, it would only seem natural for large predators to make their way here. We have lots of land for them to hunt in and our winters are mild. Seems like the most logical explanation. I also don't believe as many people who claim to have seen a cougar actually have seen one. I do believe some have though.

[Verge]

Verge, you are wrong to think that there are no black panthers in the Northern Texas and Southern AR areas. Many have been seen, even in the last few months where I am from in far NE Texas.

We killed one in '00 that chased our pet geese onto the back porch of our house. We shot him out the back door and tossed his body into a field behind our place. Weighed about 60# and was tail to nose 4.5' long.

Solid black, muscular, thick fur - Not a house cat...

As a matter of fact, we were not that shocked because we had seen him several times before killing him. I think he was attracted to our farm by easy eating (geese)

Could have been this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguarundi

Or like a said, perhaps an escaped pet... very small chance a jaguar would ever be up here, almost no chance at all.

[Verge]

What is the social structure of mountain lions?  Are they anything at all like the lions of the African plains?

I don't have any knowledge of it and can't speak to it.

There is no social structure, they are solitary.


If you see more than 1 together, it is a mother with cubs(which will grow to her size before they leave).

[Albert Einswine]

There is no social structure, they are solitary.


If you see more than 1 together, it is a mother with cubs(which will grow to her size before they leave).

That's kind of what I was thinking but didn't know for sure.

[razorback541]

I know i sounds crazy but i use to work out on Wasson Rd which is next to Sturgis and I saw the cat on the road on my way to work about two years ago. At first i thought it was just a big black cat but after i saw it jump a 8 foot creek bed with easy from the side of the road with no running start or anything i really dont think that there is  anything that could explain what i saw except that there has to be panthers in Conway

[Wayne Watson]

Maybe some of these are still running loose.

http://www.angelfire.com/co/KlueLass/lions/aklions.htm

[Hawgon]

Well, one thing I learned from that story is that a 30-06 is an adequate caliber for African lions.

[Verge]

That's kind of what I was thinking but didn't know for sure.

I read way to many animal books as a child.

[Verge]

I know i sounds crazy but i use to work out on Wasson Rd which is next to Sturgis and I saw the cat on the road on my way to work about two years ago. At first i thought it was just a big black cat but after i saw it jump a 8 foot creek bed with easy from the side of the road with no running start or anything i really dont think that there is  anything that could explain what i saw except that there has to be panthers in Conway

There used to be a guy in conway that had 15 or 20 large cats in run down cages, it's not insane to think they might escape... quite often.

For a true jaguar to be walking down the road, in arkansas, is pretty crazy. Definitely not impossible, but very unlikely, given their preference for dense habitat, and different climates.

Bobcats can be black also, and are bigger than a housecat. Or there could perhaps be a bloodline of black cougars in that area... but a traditional jaguar panther, surely not. You hear lots of stories of people shooting them, but never providing a body... which is crazy, as it would be a rather landmark discovery.

[Hawgon]

There is the jaguarundi as well.  It is bigger than a house cat or bobcat, but smaller than a cougar.  It is known to be black sometimes.  It is definitely possible that a small animal like that could be moving up from Mexico and Central America.  In just the last fifty years or so, we have seen armadillos, fire ants, and several other species do the same thing.

On Monsterquest on the history channel, they had video of a black cat with a long tail in West Virginia.  They were able to compare it to know landmarks in the video to determine that it was about three feet long from nose to tail and nearly two feet tall.  That isn't cougar size, but it is definitely bigger than a house cat.

[twistitup]

verge, panthers are federally protected....that's why hunters don't shoot them. It's a catch 22. You can't prove the existence of an animal if it is against the law to shoot it.

[razorback541]

[That is possible i have heard of cougers being out in that area ]



There used to be a guy in conway that had 15 or 20 large cats in run down cages, it's not insane to think they might escape... quite often.

For a true jaguar to be walking down the road, in arkansas, is pretty crazy. Definitely not impossible, but very unlikely, given their preference for dense habitat, and different climates.

Bobcats can be black also, and are bigger than a housecat. Or there could perhaps be a bloodline of black cougars in that area... but a traditional jaguar panther, surely not. You hear lots of stories of people shooting them, but never providing a body... which is crazy, as it would be a rather landmark discovery.
[/quote]

[DoggtownHog]

There is the jaguarundi as well.  It is bigger than a house cat or bobcat, but smaller than a cougar.  It is known to be black sometimes.  It is definitely possible that a small animal like that could be moving up from Mexico and Central America.  In just the last fifty years or so, we have seen armadillos, fire ants, and several other species do the same thing.

On Monsterquest on the history channel, they had video of a black cat with a long tail in West Virginia.  They were able to compare it to know landmarks in the video to determine that it was about three feet long from nose to tail and nearly two feet tall.  That isn't cougar size, but it is definitely bigger than a house cat.

I'm surprised more people aren't suggesting this theory. The jaguarundi fits the description of these black cats perfectly. 3 to 4 feet long and in between a mt lion and a large house cat.

[MF]

Pics with all the cats in it aren't from Arkansas or Missouri.  Try Rapid City, South Dakota.


http://rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2008/12/13/news/local/doc49413920487e3065674175.txt

[RazorReb]

Pics with all the cats in it aren't from Arkansas or Missouri.  Try Rapid City, South Dakota.


http://rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2008/12/13/news/local/doc49413920487e3065674175.txt

WOW, looks like someone is a fibber. Houston Nutt you trying to post about Mountain Lions?

[Mr. Prozac]

This link contains reference to two papers on the subject of cougars in Arkansas as well as a map with "confirmed" sightings (while the encounters occurred in the late 90's and up to 2003, it includes a couple by AGFC employees).
http://www.cougarnet.org/southeast.html

This article is from December 30, 2008:
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/National/248024/

[twistitup]

prozac,
good find. this goes a long way in debunking the 'released' cat scenario. These cat confirmations are over a 3 state area - these are wild cats and they are in Arkansas - Confirmed.

[spit]

This link contains reference to two papers on the subject of cougars in Arkansas as well as a map with "confirmed" sightings (while the encounters occurred in the late 90's and up to 2003, it includes a couple by AGFC employees).
http://www.cougarnet.org/southeast.html

This article is from December 30, 2008:
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/National/248024/

This is copy pasted from that link:
"The Cougar Network is interested in documenting evidence of wild, free-roaming cougars. As a result, animals of known captive origin are not included as confirmations."

So i guess if its "unknown" if its a released pet then they automatically consider it a "confirmation".  Thats retarded.  Do they realize the definition of "confirmed". Sounds a little biased to me... actually a lot biased. 

[spit]

prozac,
good find. this goes a long way in debunking the 'released' cat scenario. These cat confirmations are over a 3 state area - these are wild cats and they are in Arkansas - Confirmed.

huh? did you read the article closely. Refer to my post just above this and the following.

the only "class I confirmations" they have are
1: a debated picture of a cougar that may or may not have been wild even if it is an authentic picture

2: a video that again may or may not have been wild


ALSO take note, and this is the part that i actually like and commend the authors for.  They are NOT discussing "wild BLACK cats".  Atleast that gives the 'network' more credibility and likewise further discredits these "black panther" claims IMO.  Otherwise a group/site like this would be all over it.

[twistitup]

spit,
some people like you will never believe.

Get out in the wood and maybe you will see a cougar (they exist) - maybe even a black one!

[RazorReb]

spit,
some people like you will never believe.

Get out in the wood and maybe you will see a cougar (they exist) - maybe even a black one!

Surely if they do someone has a picture of one or a dead one.  I am not talking about some house cat either.

[linkshog]

Yes I'm starting the thread again.  This may or may not be true, but I got these pics from a deer hunter in Grant County who says they are off his fathers trail cam. His dad never went back to pull the photos off his camera and when they shut the place down a few weeks ago he went and pulled his and his dad's cameras from the woods.  He had nothing on his camera, but found these on his dads.  Don't yell at me.  I'm just passing these along to whoever may be interested in starting the debate again. 

[Albert Einswine]

Yes I'm starting the thread again.  This may or may not be true, but I got these pics from a deer hunter in Grant County who says they are off his fathers trail cam. His dad never went back to pull the photos off his camera and when they shut the place down a few weeks ago he went and pulled his and his dad's cameras from the woods.  He had nothing on his camera, but found these on his dads.  Don't yell at me.  I'm just passing these along to whoever may be interested in starting the debate again. 

Invisible Mountain Lions... IMPRESSIVE!!!!!  These are the most elusive subspecies.  LOL!

[hogdiggity]

Invisible Mountain Lions... IMPRESSIVE!!!!!  These are the most elusive subspecies.  LOL!

it is no wonder so many people refuse to admit they exist in Arkansas when they are invisible!

[Albert Einswine]

it is no wonder so many people refuse to admit they exist in Arkansas when they are invisible!

So true!

[linkshog]

HAVING TROUBLE POSTING PICTURES.  SOMEONE PM ME AND I'LL FORWARD THE PICTURES TO BE POSTED.  SORRY A/B THE ALL CAPS.