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Author Topic: Arkansas Mountian Lions  (Read 17272 times)

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Albert Einswine

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #400 on: February 09, 2009, 02:46:33 pm »

Tito,
I choose to look at things a bit differently I guess; the authors 'possible explanation' is correct in my eyes.

Conceivable, could, and possible are all very understandable. It means that there is a possibility for jaguars to exist in Texas, even the 'black' ones although they are 'uncommon' in nature. (and since Arkansas and Texas border there is a 'chance' they are in AR as well.

I saw a dead black cat in Texas, on our family farm and I 'choose' to believe it was a 'black' jaguar. It is 'possible' you know.


Pothead, if that rocks your world, then carry on.  Be sure next time you see a dead black jaguar on your family farm in Texas to get some proof.
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twistitup

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #401 on: February 09, 2009, 05:28:38 pm »


Pothead, if that rocks your world, then carry on.  Be sure next time you see a dead black jaguar on your family farm in Texas to get some proof.

Tito,
Knowing I am right and you are wrong does rock my world. You have internet proof they don't exist and I have had a dead animal in my hands...

Actually, at the time, I had no idea it was this big of a deal or I would of taken pics. We have seen them fairly regularly in the past.
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Albert Einswine

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #402 on: February 09, 2009, 06:36:08 pm »

Tito,
Knowing I am right and you are wrong does rock my world. You have internet proof they don't exist and I have had a dead animal in my hands...

Actually, at the time, I had no idea it was this big of a deal or I would of taken pics. We have seen them fairly regularly in the past.



Pothead,  if you have seen them fairly regularly in the past do you have any idea what happened to them that you aren't seeing them now?

You've got no evidence and zero credibility.
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twistitup

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #403 on: February 09, 2009, 06:56:44 pm »



Pothead,  if you have seen them fairly regularly in the past do you have any idea what happened to them that you aren't seeing them now?

You've got no evidence and zero credibility.

Tito,
I'm grown now and don't live at home~ That's why I haven't seen them lately...they are on the family farm, not my farm in NW Arkansas.

No credibility on a message board....wow, that hurts!

In my mind, your the one looking foolish.
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NuttSu

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #404 on: February 09, 2009, 07:40:05 pm »

I guess its safe to say that no one will get the last word on the matter.
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Verge

Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #405 on: February 09, 2009, 07:56:46 pm »

Though they do not look exactly like cougars, they have the requisite size;

It's like comparing a buffalo and a deer.... If you mistake the two, then you are blind. Mountain lions aren't nearly as big as they look on tv.. jaguars on the other hand, are [CENSORED] huge.
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JIMMY BOARFFETT

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #406 on: February 09, 2009, 07:59:59 pm »

It's like comparing a buffalo and a deer.... If you mistake the two, then you are blind. Mountain lions aren't nearly as big as they look on tv.. jaguars on the other hand, are [CENSORED] huge.

Using the common sense approach in this thread is like trying to nail jello to the wall.
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NuttSu

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #407 on: February 09, 2009, 08:47:07 pm »

Using the common sense approach in this thread is like trying to nail jello to the wall.
Or make a soup sandwitch.
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Albert Einswine

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #408 on: February 09, 2009, 09:43:03 pm »

It's like comparing a buffalo and a deer.... If you mistake the two, then you are blind. Mountain lions aren't nearly as big as they look on tv.. jaguars on the other hand, are [CENSORED] huge.



Hey Verge,  that's not my quote, dude.  That's from a linked source.
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Albert Einswine

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #409 on: February 09, 2009, 09:46:55 pm »

Tito,
I'm grown now and don't live at home~ That's why I haven't seen them lately...they are on the family farm, not my farm in NW Arkansas.

No credibility on a message board....wow, that hurts!

In my mind, your the one looking foolish.


Pothead,  in your mind you have a whole herd of black jaguars running wild on your family farm nature preserve back in Texas.

Somebody is looking foolish here and all the fingers are pointing right at you.
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spit

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #410 on: February 10, 2009, 12:38:56 am »

Dear Pothead,

For heaven sakes if that's the only problem, go down to your family farm in texas and put out a muther freaking trail camera or 2.... Does your family that lives there NOT KNOW HOW TO OPERATE A FRIGGIN CAMERA?  Surely you have many old friends or relatives or neighbors in the area - call em up and ask them to take a friggin picture.  If i came from a black jaguar or mtn lion farm I'd put an end to all this nonsense and go back there and get some goshdang proof!!!   

Even then, the only problem is.... ITS NOT EVEN IN ARKANSAS FOR PETE"S SAKE SO IT STILL WOULD PROVE NOTHING PER THE EXISTENCE OF MTN LIONS ESPECIALLY BLACK ONES IN ARKANSAS.

I think you are more full of BS than anyone i've ever seen on hogville.  its getting funny.  Albert is right.  You are starting to look foolish fwiw, ... no seriously, take a reality check.
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TuckerRay

Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #411 on: February 10, 2009, 12:57:04 am »

I have to take potheads side. Just today I thought I saw a black panther, I was mistaken, it turned out to be a bigfoot. I followed it for a while until it got onto a unicorn and ran away. In the distance I saw it's demise as a fire spouting dragon grabbed both it and the unicorn and flew away.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 01:28:27 am by TuckerRay »
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cypert2

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #412 on: February 10, 2009, 10:29:09 am »

Even though there are black jaguars, they are very rare where they do occur and have only been reported from Central America. Never been a black phase jaguar in the United States or even northern Mexico. The odds of a big wad of black jaguars running around on someones farm in Texas is about as good as a pack of solid albino timberwolves migrating down from Canada and taking up residence in the Ozark Mountains.
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TuckerRay

Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #413 on: February 10, 2009, 10:42:48 am »

Even though there are black jaguars, they are very rare where they do occur and have only been reported from Central America. Never been a black phase jaguar in the United States or even northern Mexico. The odds of a big wad of black jaguars running around on someones farm in Texas is about as good as a pack of solid albino timberwolves migrating down from Canada and taking up residence in the Ozark Mountains.

Hmmmm? Well twist, any of those solid white timberwolves down on your place?
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NuttSu

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #414 on: February 10, 2009, 10:55:58 am »

Hmmmm? Well twist, any of those solid white timberwolves down on your place?
LOL....damn...just damn
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DoggtownHog

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #415 on: February 10, 2009, 11:31:43 am »

I believe that all of the scientist that I have heard speak on the subject of Black Panther/mt lions/cougars/pumas, is that it is not genetically possible for these creatures to ever become black. They do leave the door open for possible cross breeding of jags and pumas. But by itself, the mt. lion can not become black. Atswhutiherd. But at the same time, I don't totally disbelieve Twistup. Just because I haven't seen a huge black cat, doesn't mean that there is not something there. But be a Mt. Lion is not technically an option. So there ya go.
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Albert Einswine

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #416 on: February 10, 2009, 11:40:02 am »

But at the same time, I don't totally disbelieve Twistup.



Well how could you disbelieve Pothead?  I mean, he's got a whole herd of them on the family farm nature preserve back in Texas...  allegedly.
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twistitup

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #417 on: February 10, 2009, 02:18:32 pm »


Well how could you disbelieve Pothead?  I mean, he's got a whole herd of them on the family farm nature preserve back in Texas...  allegedly.
Tito,
I never said herds, your a liar. We have seen multiple black cats on our place and have killed one (when I was a teenager). That is all I have to say on the subject. I held dead proof in my hands. 

You speak from internet knowledge and I have actual knowledge.
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hogsareus

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #418 on: February 10, 2009, 08:22:53 pm »

Please gentlemen!  I implore you, try to refrain from character assasinations as we move forward with this riveting black puma discussion.
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spit

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #419 on: February 11, 2009, 06:17:23 am »

so white timbrwolfs in canadian are  that meens there in the United states americas, And its all conected the land is connexted i mean and there are things to eat on in arkansas wolfs so i am sure they come down to eeat

 someTimes n arkansas b/c wolves don't know how cannot to read nation and staeat lines boundrys ..  They can't reaed  just like mtn lions dont your guys see its not possible how this cood hapen
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twistitup

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #420 on: February 11, 2009, 08:16:09 am »

so white timbrwolfs in canadian are  that meens there in the United states americas, And its all conected the land is connexted i mean and there are things to eat on in arkansas wolfs so i am sure they come down to eeat

 someTimes n arkansas b/c wolves don't know how cannot to read nation and staeat lines boundrys ..  They can't reaed  just like mtn lions dont your guys see its not possible how this cood hapen

Wow...interesting point!

By the looks of things you should spit more and swallow less.
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DoggtownHog

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #421 on: February 11, 2009, 10:07:45 am »

so white timbrwolfs in canadian are  that meens there in the United states americas, And its all conected the land is connexted i mean and there are things to eat on in arkansas wolfs so i am sure they come down to eeat

 someTimes n arkansas b/c wolves don't know how cannot to read nation and staeat lines boundrys ..  They can't reaed  just like mtn lions dont your guys see its not possible how this cood hapen
I need this translated please. Anyone?
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Albert Einswine

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #422 on: February 11, 2009, 10:10:17 am »

I need this translated please. Anyone?


It's pure satire and sarcasm on the part of spit.  Read the whole thread and you'll gain the perspective.
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twistitup

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #423 on: February 11, 2009, 06:42:17 pm »


It's pure satire and sarcasm on the part of spit.  Read the whole thread and you'll gain the perspective.

Yeah, Spit is awesome at satire and sarcasm...

Tito understands Spit, thank goodness someone does. Thanks Tito!
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Wayne Watson

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #424 on: February 11, 2009, 06:58:40 pm »

Yeah, Spit is awesome at satire and sarcasm...

Tito understands Spit, thank goodness someone does. Thanks Tito!

Yep, I read it at work and had too much blood in my alcohol so I said "F*ck it."
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DoggtownHog

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #425 on: February 12, 2009, 11:04:13 am »

I thought he was some simpleton posting. I suspected that it was satire, but I'd rather just assume he's some sort of dumba**. I will be driving to Eureka on Friday night, over to Fayetteville Saturday and the pig trail home on Sunday. If I don't see a Mt Lion this weekend, then it ain'ts none around. Now that's a fact right there!
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Albert Einswine

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #426 on: February 12, 2009, 11:05:42 am »

I thought he was some simpleton posting. I suspected that it was satire, but I'd rather just assume he's some sort of dumba**. I will be driving to Eureka on Friday night, over to Fayetteville Saturday and the pig trail home on Sunday. If I don't see a Mt Lion this weekend, then it ain'ts none around. Now that's a fact right there!


Ever seen any elk driving through there?
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DoggtownHog

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #427 on: February 12, 2009, 11:23:10 am »

Nope. I did see a albino rattleback coopermouth. Most poisionous snake we have here. It was awesome. And it bit me. But I got better.
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Verge

Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #428 on: February 12, 2009, 02:46:59 pm »



Hey Verge,  that's not my quote, dude.  That's from a linked source.

I know, i was just commenting on that guys article...
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Albert Einswine

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #429 on: February 12, 2009, 02:55:04 pm »

I know, i was just commenting on that guys article...


I did do a little research on it though, and there is an overlap of compatability between the extremes in range of size.
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twistitup

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #430 on: February 12, 2009, 10:07:04 pm »


I did do a little research on it though, and there is an overlap of compatability between the extremes in range of size.

Please elaborate; if you are doing research I am very interested.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2009, 10:11:58 pm by twistitup »
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Albert Einswine

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #431 on: February 13, 2009, 12:43:45 am »

Below are just a couple of links I've excerpted.  You can see that both sources place the jaguar and mountain lion in roughly the same size range but as you check multiple sources you get the idea that jaguars are larger on average than mountain lions.



"Mountain lions (Felis concolor), also called cougars, pumas, panthers, and catamounts, are large cats, ranging from 7 to 8 feet in length (including the tail) and weighing 150 to 300 pounds."

http://www.projectwildlife.org/living-mountainlions.htm


"The largest cat in the Western Hemisphere. Jaguars, Panthera onca, are the third largest cat in the feline family after tigers and lions. There are eight subspecies of jaguar and all are endangered. The largest cat and top terrestrial predator in the Americas, jaguars usually reach a size of 100 to 200 pounds by adulthood. Farther south, male jaguars have been recorded at more than 300 pounds and 8 feet from nose to tail tip."

http://www.zoo.org/pressroom/jag_htm/facts.htm
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Verge

Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #432 on: February 13, 2009, 11:47:24 am »

150 to 300 for a mountain lion is a bit heavy if you ask me. I'm not a zooligist, but every specimin i have seen was 1/2 that range.

Then you look at a jaguar, and it looks huge... their heads are massive compared to mnt. lions.

Terpintine Creek says 90-150lbs for mountain lion weight. The problem though, is a cat that is so diverse like that, probably has decent weight variations throughout the world.
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Albert Einswine

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #433 on: February 13, 2009, 11:54:10 am »

150 to 300 for a mountain lion is a bit heavy if you ask me. I'm not a zooligist, but every specimin i have seen was 1/2 that range.

Then you look at a jaguar, and it looks huge... their heads are massive compared to mnt. lions.

Terpintine Creek says 90-150lbs for mountain lion weight. The problem though, is a cat that is so diverse like that, probably has decent weight variations throughout the world.


Yeah,  on the average a jaguar is going to be quite a bit larger than a mountain lion but there have been some huge mountain lions killed.  They're the exception rather than the rule.
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RedRiverHog

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #434 on: February 13, 2009, 12:46:54 pm »

FWIW when I arrived at work today a friend called and said she saw a black (looking) cat crossing the road on the way to work this morning.

About 18 inches tall with a ~3ft tail.

During this time of year, for the last 2 or 3 years, more than one person has seen this animal in passing around this very rural community.

As I said, FWIW

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JIMMY BOARFFETT

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #435 on: February 13, 2009, 03:34:40 pm »

FWIW when I arrived at work today a friend called and said she saw a black (looking) cat crossing the road on the way to work this morning.

About 18 inches tall with a ~3ft tail.

During this time of year, for the last 2 or 3 years, more than one person has seen this animal in passing around this very rural community.

As I said, FWIW



Comon RedRiverHog, you know women have always been told that a certain 6" item is 18". ;)
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Wayne Watson

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #436 on: February 13, 2009, 03:37:20 pm »

Comon RedRiverHog, you know women have always been told that a certain 6" item is 18". ;)

Several years ago it snowed about 2".  My dad called and asked Connie how much snow we had and she told him 8".   8)
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JIMMY BOARFFETT

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #437 on: February 13, 2009, 03:54:21 pm »

Several years ago it snowed about 2".  My dad called and asked Connie how much snow we had and she told him 8".   8)

Exactly!
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cypert2

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #438 on: February 13, 2009, 04:55:28 pm »

Several years ago it snowed about 2".  My dad called and asked Connie how much snow we had and she told him 8".   8)
That pretty much sums this thread up.
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twistitup

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #439 on: February 13, 2009, 05:28:05 pm »

Exactly!

Yes, now we know what is happening with all these black cat sighting....it's women. Most have a fascination with falsely reporting wild black cats...

That's why older women are called 'cougars'...it's making sense now. It just took a minute for me to catch on.
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kodiakisland

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #440 on: February 13, 2009, 07:39:00 pm »

The more I read this thread, the more I wonder if some of yall have ever even seen what you're posting about.  Mnt lions are huge.  The difference between a mnt lion and a jaguar or leopard is really not that much.  Believe me, if people were seeing these animals, they'd be saying they were 7 feet long and 4 feet high.

Do these look like cats that could be confused with house cats?





Go to any lion hunting website and take a look at the pictures.  Better yet, go out west and hunt them or at least take a trip to the zoo and see one up close.  These size cats are not the exceptions.  They are killed this size in most states out west and Canada every year.  Most places would consider any cat under 100lbs to be too small to shoot.

What most people are seeing are feral cats or bobcats.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 07:41:01 pm by kodiakisland »
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cypert2

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #441 on: February 13, 2009, 09:49:01 pm »

The more I read this thread, the more I wonder if some of yall have ever even seen what you're posting about.  Mnt lions are huge.  The difference between a mnt lion and a jaguar or leopard is really not that much.  Believe me, if people were seeing these animals, they'd be saying they were 7 feet long and 4 feet high.

Do these look like cats that could be confused with house cats?





Go to any lion hunting website and take a look at the pictures.  Better yet, go out west and hunt them or at least take a trip to the zoo and see one up close.  These size cats are not the exceptions.  They are killed this size in most states out west and Canada every year.  Most places would consider any cat under 100lbs to be too small to shoot.

What most people are seeing are feral cats or bobcats.
DUDE, ever heard of Photoshop?
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JIMMY BOARFFETT

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #442 on: February 13, 2009, 11:21:34 pm »

DUDE, ever heard of Photoshop?

^^^^^^^
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kodiakisland

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #443 on: February 13, 2009, 11:31:18 pm »

DUDE, ever heard of Photoshop?

Ever heard of getting out of Arkansas some time?  Might be surprised whats out there.

The only reason you think that's photoshopped is because you've never seen a mnt lion or if you have, all you've seen are young ones.  The people I hunted with last fall will not even shoot one unless its 150lbs and they shoot several every year.  Thats what big cats look like.  If you don't believe me, go out west and hunt them.

Click on this link to snopes and look at this cat.
http://www.snopes.com/photos/hunting/mountainlion.asp
The person holding that cat is a friend of mine.  I can assure you that is not photoshopped.  That's what mnt lions really look like.

If you don't believe that.  Check out Boone and Crockett's web site.
http://www.boone-crockett.org/news/trophyWatch_detail.asp?area=news&ID=D9563084-4E82-4A7F-804D-EE4842DEDA07


Maybe this is the size you are used to seeing, if you've ever seen one, but it's a young one.



If you actually ever want to expand your horizons, this is who I hunt with and would highly recommend them.  They won't let you shoot one of those small ones.
http://www.baldymountain.com/cougar.htm
http://www.ramcreek.ca/cougar.html
http://fontanabighorn.com/
« Last Edit: February 14, 2009, 01:21:20 am by kodiakisland »
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old hog

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #444 on: February 14, 2009, 09:18:36 am »

Those are some BIG cats. Believe I'll leave the hunting of those to someone else, I'll keep to fishing. Interesting pictures, though.......... Thanks for the post.
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spit

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #445 on: February 14, 2009, 10:22:41 am »

BTW cool sites/pics Kodiak.  I too think a big part of the problem is people simply not realizing how big these cats are.  99% of the time, if you see one or get a pic of one, there will be NO mistake b/c it will look freakin huge.  150# cat thick fur and long tail would be described as a brown colored monster in the woods of arkansas that was as 4' tall and 8' long + a 4' tail. 

referring to pic way up in thread posted by twist of a black cat from a trail cam that may have had on a collar - Can you believe that somebody would actually think THAT is a black mtn lion/panther/jag..  Ludicrous IMO.
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old hog

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #446 on: February 14, 2009, 12:21:49 pm »

BTW cool sites/pics Kodiak.  I too think a big part of the problem is people simply not realizing how big these cats are.  99% of the time, if you see one or get a pic of one, there will be NO mistake b/c it will look freakin huge.  150# cat thick fur and long tail would be described as a brown colored monster in the woods of arkansas that was as 4' tall and 8' long + a 4' tail. 

referring to pic way up in thread posted by twist of a black cat from a trail cam that may have had on a collar - Can you believe that somebody would actually think THAT is a black mtn lion/panther/jag..  Ludicrous IMO.
Could have been a flea collar. Got a big black one out by me, terrorizes my dogs. Stalks them. He's got a flea collar on. So maybe, just maybe, the "black mtn. lion ate a cat with a flea collar. Hey?
Stretching it a bit..................but..
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cypert2

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #447 on: February 14, 2009, 05:17:51 pm »

Ever heard of getting out of Arkansas some time?  Might be surprised whats out there.

The only reason you think that's photoshopped is because you've never seen a mnt lion or if you have, all you've seen are young ones.  The people I hunted with last fall will not even shoot one unless its 150lbs and they shoot several every year.  Thats what big cats look like.  If you don't believe me, go out west and hunt them.

Click on this link to snopes and look at this cat.
http://www.snopes.com/photos/hunting/mountainlion.asp
The person holding that cat is a friend of mine.  I can assure you that is not photoshopped.  That's what mnt lions really look like.

If you don't believe that.  Check out Boone and Crockett's web site.
http://www.boone-crockett.org/news/trophyWatch_detail.asp?area=news&ID=D9563084-4E82-4A7F-804D-EE4842DEDA07


Maybe this is the size you are used to seeing, if you've ever seen one, but it's a young one.



If you actually ever want to expand your horizons, this is who I hunt with and would highly recommend them.  They won't let you shoot one of those small ones.
http://www.baldymountain.com/cougar.htm
http://www.ramcreek.ca/cougar.html
http://fontanabighorn.com/

If you hunt with them let's see your picture with one of those big mountain lions. And a 200 lb lion is a rare animal. People like Wiley Carroll, Dub Evans And the Lee Bros who killed hundreds of lions all agreed with that.
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kodiakisland

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #448 on: February 14, 2009, 06:26:06 pm »

If you hunt with them let's see your picture with one of those big mountain lions. And a 200 lb lion is a rare animal. People like Wiley Carroll, Dub Evans And the Lee Bros who killed hundreds of lions all agreed with that.

So is this your way of admitting those weren't photo shopped?

I've hunted bear, goat, elk and deer with them.  This was last falls goat. (hope its the right pic, they're blocked at work)



I haven't hunted cats with them, yet, but I have seen enough of their pictures to know they take cats 150+lb every year and have taken several 180+lb cats.  Plus, seeing tracks bigger than your hand from cats are pretty convincing, specially when they're tracking your horses.  I agree that a 200lb cat is very rare.  In fact, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone saying they've taken one that was 200+lb.  Around 194 is the biggest I've heard of.  I'm deer hunting with Ram Creek this fall and would gladly give you the contact info if you're interested in going up there and seeing for yourself. 

But back to the heart of the matter, those weren't photshopped pictures like you said.  Ask someone that you know personally who actually hunts these cats up north, they'll tell you.

Now the likelyhood of any cat reaching this size in Arkansas is probably out of the question.  Those cats are mature toms that have no reason to leave their territory, plus they eat well and put on much more fat than a cat here would.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2009, 06:31:18 pm by kodiakisland »
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kodiakisland

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Re: Arkansas Mountian Lions
« Reply #449 on: February 14, 2009, 06:36:29 pm »

And a 200 lb lion is a rare animal. People like Wiley Carroll, Dub Evans And the Lee Bros who killed hundreds of lions all agreed with that.

Are you saying you know some of these people, or just read their books?  I believe at least two of them hunted in the southwest where cats probably don't get over 150lbs.  Seems I've seen pictures of Carrol with cats just as big as those you claim to be photoshopped.  Wonder how he did that back then?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2009, 06:58:55 pm by kodiakisland »
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