Most SEC folks clueless about hoops and mistakenly apply football ideas

[oldbooniehog]

Most SEC fans and sports media types are totally and absolutely clueless about basketball....except for maybe Kentucky (hock....spit) fans.

Everybody else in the SEC who's not associated with Kentucky (hock.....spit) usually can't get their football-shaped heads around basketball.

They think about basketball and talk about basketball like it was football.

Which just....doesn't......work.

The conventional wisdom this year is that Arkansas will be a really bad basketball team because the team is mostly rookies.

You know, in football, if you've got all freshmen, you're team is going to be bad, so it's gotta be true about basketball, too, right?

The conventional wisdom last year was that Arkansas' basketball team was going to be really good, because it had so many seniors.

You know, lots of good football teams have lots of seniors, so that's gotta be true in basketball, too, right?

Basketball is a much more fluid game than football.

In basketball, one or two really talented players can make a huge difference, which is totally different than football.

Football is much more of a team and system oriented sport.

In football, if you've got a really great, NFL-class center on your team, but not much else, it really shows up in the team's performance, right?

I mean if the rest of your football team is just okay, but man, one of your cornerbacks is just all world, that makes your football team really good, right?

Nope.

Nobody, and I do mean nobody really notices if your center is great, (no offense meant, J. Luigs)  or your cornerback is all-world and the rest of your football team is mediocre or worse.

Basketball ain't football.

Football style thinking just doesn't apply to basketball.

Talented hoopsters are just that....talented hoopsters.

It doesn't matter that much how experienced they are.

In basketball, experience is vastly over-rated, especially by people who try to apply a football mindset and football truisms to basketball.

Experience is also vastly over-rated by blathering Dickie V wannabes, but that's a whole other post entirely.

Not only is experience vastly over-rated, experience is also much more quickly gained in basketball than it is in football.

Freshmen who are 18 games deep into a roundball season aren't really freshmen any more.

They have much, much more experience playing their game than freshmen football players 7 games deep into a football season.

Just a few examples.

Uh, what was Arkansas' record when Scotty Thurman and Corliss Williamson and the rest of that group were mainly just freshmen? (22-9)

Uh, besides Kevin Durant, who else did Texas have on their team again in 2007 that went 31-7 and finished ranked 7th?

What was Arkansas' record when Lee Mayberry, Todd Day, and Oliver Miller were all just freshmen?  (21-9)

The 2000 Arkansas team that made the NCAA tourney had who else on it besides a relatively inexperienced Joe Johnson?

One more. Kansas State made it how far into the NCAA tourney last year on the strength of the Michael Beasley show and not much else?

But, but, but....Beasley was just a rookie!!!

In basketball, the "experience" of your team doesn't matter nearly as much as the talent of your team.

This Hog team has talent on it that hasn't been seen in a while.

They're gonna be a lot better than "conventional wisdom" says they will be.

obh

[Razorod]

i hope you are right!

[Hogtropolis™]

Tell Florida that.

They signed 2 5-star players and 3 4-star players who logged much of their minutes last year after losing basically anyone that played any minutes and couldn't even make it to the NCAA tourney.

I'm not trying to be a pessimist here, but I am trying to be a realist.  We could be pretty good, but I wouldn't get my hopes up for this year.  We will probably show how good we can be, but we will probably show how young we are as well.

Either way, I will be rooting them on all year.  It will be a very exciting season.

[wrs001]

great post obh, +1

[40MINSOFHELL]

Most SEC fans and sports media types are totally and absolutely clueless about basketball....except for maybe Kentucky (hock....spit) fans.

Everybody else in the SEC who's not associated with Kentucky (hock.....spit) usually can't get their football-shaped heads around basketball.

They think about basketball and talk about basketball like it was football.

Which just....doesn't......work.

The conventional wisdom this year is that Arkansas will be a really bad basketball team because the team is mostly rookies.

You know, in football, if you've got all freshmen, you're team is going to be bad, so it's gotta be true about basketball, too, right?

The conventional wisdom last year was that Arkansas' basketball team was going to be really good, because it had so many seniors.

You know, lots of good football teams have lots of seniors, so that's gotta be true in basketball, too, right?

Basketball is a much more fluid game than football.

In basketball, one or two really talented players can make a huge difference, which is totally different than football.

Football is much more of a team and system oriented sport.

In football, if you've got a really great, NFL-class center on your team, but not much else, it really shows up in the team's performance, right?

I mean if the rest of your football team is just okay, but man, one of your cornerbacks is just all world, that makes your football team really good, right?

Nope.

Nobody, and I do mean nobody really notices if your center is great, (no offense meant, J. Luigs)  or your cornerback is all-world and the rest of your football team is mediocre or worse.

Basketball ain't football.

Football style thinking just doesn't apply to basketball.

Talented hoopsters are just that....talented hoopsters.

It doesn't matter that much how experienced they are.

In basketball, experience is vastly over-rated, especially by people who try to apply a football mindset and football truisms to basketball.

Experience is also vastly over-rated by blathering Dickie V wannabes, but that's a whole other post entirely.

Not only is experience vastly over-rated, experience is also much more quickly gained in basketball than it is in football.

Freshmen who are 18 games deep into a roundball season aren't really freshmen any more.

They have much, much more experience playing their game than freshmen football players 7 games deep into a football season.

Just a few examples.

Uh, what was Arkansas' record when Scotty Thurman and Corliss Williamson and the rest of that group were mainly just freshmen? (22-9)

Uh, besides Kevin Durant, who else did Texas have on their team again in 2007 that went 31-7 and finished ranked 7th?

What was Arkansas' record when Lee Mayberry, Todd Day, and Oliver Miller were all just freshmen?  (21-9)

The 2000 Arkansas team that made the NCAA tourney had who else on it besides a relatively inexperienced Joe Johnson?

One more. Kansas State made it how far into the NCAA tourney last year on the strength of the Michael Beasley show and not much else?

But, but, but....Beasley was just a rookie!!!

In basketball, the "experience" of your team doesn't matter nearly as much as the talent of your team.

This Hog team has talent on it that hasn't been seen in a while.

They're gonna be a lot better than "conventional wisdom" says they will be.

obh

that's what im saying. we will win the SEC.mark my words

[HOG FAN 4 LIFE]

Tell Florida that.

They signed 2 5-star players and 3 4-star players who logged much of their minutes last year after losing basically anyone that played any minutes and couldn't even make it to the NCAA tourney.

I'm not trying to be a pessimist here, but I am trying to be a realist.  We could be pretty good, but I wouldn't get my hopes up for this year.  We will probably show how good we can be, but we will probably show how young we are as well.

Either way, I will be rooting them on all year.  It will be a very exciting season.

Every year North Carolina is dominant with amazing freshman.  Florida was just an exception.

[navyhog24]

yeah we have a lot of freshmen. we'll have our ups and downs this season. we just have to be patient and let these guys gel. and we will really need for a couple of them to really step up as vocal leaders on the floor and as the go-to guys in the pressure situations, the ones who will want the ball in their hands when the game is on the line.

[Hogtropolis™]

Every year North Carolina is dominant with amazing freshman.  Florida was just an exception.

But UNC doesn't lose everyone that plays any minutes.  They usually have at least 2 people coming back that logged significant minutes the previous year.

The kind of players that obh is talking about that it doesn't matter if they are young are the players that are the one and done type.  Not knocking our guys at all, because I think they are great, but none of them are one and done type players.

[Oliver]

1.  This team doesn't have a Michael Beasley or a Carmelo Anthony, etc. 

2.  Name me some college teams that lost ALL 5 STARTERS and came back next year and even made the NCAAT.

[razerbacker]

Welsh and Washington were both starters at one point in time last year.

[Oliver]

Welsh and Washington were both starters at one point in time last year.

Yeah, and HDN used to start Ryan Sorahan every game for one possession becuase he thought it was good luck.

That didn't make Sorahan a starter in my eyes.

[Hogtropolis™]

1.  This team doesn't have a Michael Beasley or a Carmelo Anthony, etc. 

2.  Name me some college teams that lost ALL 5 STARTERS and came back next year and even made the NCAAT.

At least there is someone else on here that is being realistic.  It would be a nice surprise if we do well, but we are just too inexperienced.  I just don't expect to make the NCAA tourney this year.

[pimphog]

Tell Florida that.

They signed 2 5-star players and 3 4-star players who logged much of their minutes last year after losing basically anyone that played any minutes and couldn't even make it to the NCAA tourney.

I'm not trying to be a pessimist here, but I am trying to be a realist.  We could be pretty good, but I wouldn't get my hopes up for this year.  We will probably show how good we can be, but we will probably show how young we are as well.

Either way, I will be rooting them on all year.  It will be a very exciting season.

you and the original poster make good points......I said last week on a post that this team will be very similar to Florida from last year....very young and inexperienced....but we do have some very talented players...

If the freshman can keep a level head on and off the court and we can have some solid post play...i could see us winning 17 games this year....

[jry04]

Tell Florida that.

They signed 2 5-star players and 3 4-star players who logged much of their minutes last year after losing basically anyone that played any minutes and couldn't even make it to the NCAA tourney.

I'm not trying to be a pessimist here, but I am trying to be a realist.  We could be pretty good, but I wouldn't get my hopes up for this year.  We will probably show how good we can be, but we will probably show how young we are as well.

Either way, I will be rooting them on all year.  It will be a very exciting season.

A lot of that had to do with upsets in other conferences, and a weak Florida schedule. They were in the top 25 at one point I do believe. They just choked.

Look at the Purdue Boilermakers.

I am not saying we are going to win the SEC at all. However, look at the talent lost on other teams. Every team with the exception of UF and USC lost big time players.

Bama lost Hendrix and Riley.
Auburn lost Quan Prowell and Frank Tolbert. They will probably be the worst team in the SEC.
MSU lost Charles Rhodes, Jamont Gordon, and Ben Hansbrough.
LSU lost Anthony Randolph.
Ole Miss lost Dwayne Curtis, Jeremy Parnell, and Kenny Williams.

Those are just the West teams. I think we will finish 3rd in the West, possibly 2nd. LSU and Bama will likely finish top 2 though.

The East has some teams that lost quite a bit too though.

UT lost Ramar Smith, Duke Crews, Chris Lofton, and JaJuan Smith.
Vandy lost Shan Foster, Alan Metcalfe, Alex Gordon, and Ross Neltner.
UK lost Ramel Bradley, Derrick Jasper, and Joe Crawford.
UGA lost Sundiata Gaines and Dave Bliss.
USC lost Dwayne Day.

USC and UF returned a lot, and will be pretty tough.

Out of the West teams, Bama is the only team that got a better recruiting class as far as rankings go.

[Beaverfever]

OBH is completely correct.  And to the people that keep talking about florida last year, STOP.  Billy Donnovan said that he wasn't happy with the players on his teams last year and that for the most part, he thought the answer to his teams problem wasn't on the team.  He expected MUCH more from them.  In basketball, experience matters very little.  It is basically only relative in your role players.  Your studs not only can be, but SHOULD be freshmen and sophomores.  They should be in the NBA after there sophomore or junior year.  How much better did this group of seniors get as the years went on?  Not much, they came in pretty average and left pretty average. 

[opineonswine]

At the guard positions we will be better than last year.  At the wing we will be slightly worse than last year (probably).  At the bigs we will be noticeably below last year.  We are short a frontcourt player.  All in all, we will likely be more fun to watch but with not as good a record as last year.  That's my prediction.

[Hogtropolis™]

At the guard positions we will be better than last year.  At the wing we will be slightly worse than last year (probably).  At the bigs we will be noticeably below last year.  We are short a frontcourt player.  All in all, we will likely be more fun to watch but with not as good a record as last year.  That's my prediction.

I'll agree with that.

[The Hogfather]

At the guard positions we will be better than last year.  At the wing we will be slightly worse than last year (probably).  At the bigs we will be noticeably below last year.  We are short a frontcourt player.  All in all, we will likely be more fun to watch but with not as good a record as last year.  That's my prediction.

Our style of play will be a lot different than last year.  Tall guards matter more than bulky frontcourt players.  I think we'll end up with a slightly worse record than last year because I think we have a slightly tougher schedule.  If they grow as they should, we should rack up some wins as the year goes on.

[opineonswine]

And I hope they prove me dead wrong pessimistic.

Who wouldn't love a team with this guy:
http://www.wholehogsports.com/nwat/70479

[sshawg]

there's also the fact that these kids play baskeyball year round now.  Even if they play in a small classifacation in the school year, they play againstthe best in summer ball.  THAts a huge difference.  Most of them are college ready when they get here.  I remember going to see Lee Mayberry & Todd day when the first got here .  Looked like seniors

[earshot]

I completely agree with the OP.

Talent is what matters most in basketball. It only takes 1 stud to improve an average team into a NCAA tourney team.

The question for Arkansas is: Do we have 1 stud player? One that will make plays when the other team knows who's going to beat them and still can't stop them.

[40MINSOFHELL]

seems the football struggles are finding their way on Jump Ball, may I say, basketball is a different sport

[hunterhog11]

In basketball, one or two really talented players can make a huge difference, which is totally different than football.

What about Darren McFadden and Felix Jones?

[40MINSOFHELL]

What about Darren McFadden and Felix Jones?

We didn't win anything when they were here

[The Hogfather]

We didn't win anything when they were here

Couldn't even win a bowl game!

[pitbull1]

IMO, I feel last years team did not play to their potential.  They could have played a lot better than they did and were very lazy.  This years team although very young and inexperienced may be alot more fun to watch, and could actually surprise alot of real good teams.  No one should actually overlook this squad.

[oldbooniehog]

What about Darren McFadden and Felix Jones?

What about DMac and Felix Jones?

They weren't the only really good players on the teams they were on.

Here is a list of All Arkansas Razorbacks good enough to get drafted during the three years DMac and Felix Jones were Hogs.

Vickiel Vaughn
Jamaal Anderson
Chris Houston
Tony Ugoh
Michael Coe
Keith Jackson Jr.
Marcus Harrison
Nate Garner
Peyton Hillis
Marcus Monk

I hate to rehash the last several years for you, but that was part of the problem with Nutt in football, was it not?

He had all this talent (In addition to Mustain and Damian Williams) and could never win a championship.

DMac and Jones were not the only talented players on the Hog teams they were part of.

obh

[hunterhog11]

What about DMac and Felix Jones?

They weren't the only really good players on the teams they were on.

Here is a list of All Arkansas Razorbacks good enough to get drafted during the three years DMac and Felix Jones were Hogs.

Vickiel Vaughn
Jamaal Anderson
Chris Houston
Tony Ugoh
Michael Coe
Keith Jackson Jr.
Marcus Harrison
Nate Garner
Peyton Hillis
Marcus Monk

I hate to rehash the last several years for you, but that was part of the problem with Nutt in football, was it not?

He had all this talent (In addition to Mustain and Damian Williams) and could never win a championship.

DMac and Jones were not the only talented players on the Hog teams they were part of.

obh

Yes, but weren't they one or two talented players that DID made a difference? I believe they were....I agree that we had many talented kids, but imagine Nutt's offense the last 2 or 3 seasons WITHOUT them two....we may not have won a single game. One or two talented players CAN make a difference in a football team occasionally. (Example: Vince Young in the National Championship)

[hawgsav1]

Yes, but weren't they one or two talented players that DID made a difference? I believe they were....I agree that we had many talented kids, but imagine Nutt's offense the last 2 or 3 seasons WITHOUT them two....we may not have won a single game. One or two talented players CAN make a difference in a football team occasionally. (Example: Vince Young in the National Championship)

Vince Young was the X-factor, but that team was really talented otherwise also.