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Author Topic: Keep Stan Heath?  (Read 7162 times)

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Ft.SmithHog

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Keep Stan Heath?
« on: March 19, 2005, 08:04:06 pm »

I think if we give S.H two more recruiting years we would be back in the national championship race again.  Remember, the majority of are player are just freshmen that lack good judgement.. Judgement will improve as they mature.. 8)
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Biggus Piggus

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2005, 08:04:57 pm »

Majority of our players are freshmen?  You can't count very well. 

He might recruit his way into a good team now and then, but what happens the rest of the time?  He is a feeble coach.  Heath makes Guy Lewis look like a nimble tactician.

Somehow teams like Washington, West Virginia, DePaul and UAB recovered from complete collapses in the same amount of time it took Stan Heath to take Arkansas to its worst RPI since Nolan inherited Eddie Sutton's trash.

Our RPI is worse than it was in Heath's first season!  Do you get it?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2005, 08:08:51 pm by Spamalot »
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Fletch

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2005, 08:08:53 pm »

I think if we give S.H two more recruiting years we would be back in the national championship race again. Remember, the majority of are player are just freshmen that lack good judgement.. Judgement will improve as they mature.. 8)
Welcome to the board Ft.SmithHog. Prepare to get hammered for pro Heath comments. ;D

I heard people say this about Nutt two years ago, three years ago, four years ago do you see a pattern here?
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3kgthog

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2005, 08:09:23 pm »

The majority of our players are freshmen? What would you call Brewer, Famutimi, Modica, Jones, Ferguson, Jefferson and Sullivan? They sure as heck aren't freshmen. The only freshmen that really saw significant SEC minutes were Thomas and Townes.  Any other excuses?

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Fletch

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2005, 08:14:25 pm »

The majority of our players are freshmen? What would you call Brewer, Famutimi, Modica, Jones, Ferguson, Jefferson and Sullivan? They sure as heck aren't freshmen. The only freshmen that really saw significant SEC minutes were Thomas and Townes. Any other excuses?


The rest are sophomores, Nolan recruits, a last second signee because we had no guards, and Dontell.
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Biggus Piggus

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2005, 08:19:00 pm »

And Heath deserves a break because he overrecruited wing forwards and underrecruited true guards?  Because he wasted the time of day on Julius Lamptey and Al Jefferson?  Because he leaped onto Dontell Jefferson after a meager week's due diligence?  Dontell, who looks no more like a guard than Modica, Jones and Famutimi do?
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Fletch

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2005, 08:22:14 pm »

Wasted the time of day on Al Jefferson? Now I've heard it all. My how hindsight is 20-20.
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Ft.SmithHog

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2005, 08:23:54 pm »

If Big Al would have made it to campus we woluld have been in the tournament this year.. Heath does a great job of selling our program... we are still feeling the effects of Noland's lack of recruiting. ;D
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Ft.SmithHog

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2005, 08:28:43 pm »

at least heath and his staff are trying to biring in the best players.. i use to hate it when i would see all of the top player not even being offered by arkansas.  ;D
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Fletch

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2005, 08:29:12 pm »

Heath also went for one of the best point guards in the nation, Daniel Gibson, and narrowly missed getting him. I think we are not that far away from good team. When Iggy and Benedict Sullinger left we had 0 guards, that is 0, nada, zilch. Also, 0 talent at post. Complete rebuilding job takes a little time.
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muslimsdonteatme

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2005, 08:33:07 pm »

Because he wasted the time of day on Julius Lamptey and Al Jefferson?

Bitch and moan about whatever you want to, but to claim that putting forth the effort to get a verbal from Jefferson was wasted is plain stupid.  If he went to college, we had him, and any rational person gives Heath credit for that.
Not that I think any of you posters are rational.
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Fletch

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2005, 08:51:07 pm »

Because he wasted the time of day on Julius Lamptey and Al Jefferson?

Bitch and moan about whatever you want to, but to claim that putting forth the effort to get a verbal from Jefferson was wasted is plain stupid. If he went to college, we had him, and any rational person gives Heath credit for that.
Not that I think any of you posters are rational.
We're not worthy, we're not worthy.
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WilsonHog

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2005, 08:53:47 pm »

I hope he's here five years from now.

I actually LIKE not going to the NCAA Tournament. 
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Fletch

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2005, 08:55:00 pm »

Then for your sake, I hope he's here 10.
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BentonvilleJeff

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2005, 09:45:57 pm »

It's basically a fact Heath will be here at least one more year. I'm in his corner for one more season. If he takes us to the dance then I will keep backing him. If we don't go to the dance then I think even Stan can see the writing on the wall. I hope he continues to try and learn. Go to some programs like many other coaches do and pick their brains and apply that stuff. Not one thing from this years team made me think he has it going in the right direction. I'm not talking about players because Ronnie and Darian are two obvious players. I'm talking Stan's system, he needs one in the worst way. His full court press did work more than our other stuff so why not make us into a running team? It couldn't hurt. Travel to Louisville Ky and spend a few days picking Pittino's brain, go talk to John Wooden. Find proven winners. Those guys would talk to Stan and teach him, because he is in that fraternity where those older men would gladly help.
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tophawg19

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2005, 10:19:05 pm »

got to have a P G to run we don't have one . mccurdy may not be the answer . you don't want a freshmen running the team
 we have no direction & no clue how to make adjustments on the floor as the game goes on .
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muslimsdonteatme

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2005, 10:28:12 pm »

got to have a P G to run we don't have one . mccurdy may not be the answer . you don't want a freshmen running the team
 we have no direction & no clue how to make adjustments on the floor as the game goes on .

Will you graduate this year?  You plan to attend college?
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rathog1

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2005, 10:34:52 pm »



  Heath makes Guy Lewis look like a nimble tactician.



That's a little harsh!!!!
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NuttsSacked

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2005, 10:45:15 pm »

got to have a P G to run we don't have one . mccurdy may not be the answer . you don't want a freshmen running the team
 we have no direction & no clue how to make adjustments on the floor as the game goes on .

Will you graduate this year? You plan to attend college?

I see you're still the smart-ass, "midsection of a camel's toe" you always were, Muzzy.  I suggest you hop back over to the political board.  You're out of your element here.
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tophawg19

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2005, 10:46:30 pm »

no i don't graduate but i'm not blind .mccurdy didn't play this year .do you think d. jeffersons the answer .where do you see a P.G.
coming from .
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Biggus Piggus

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2005, 10:50:41 pm »

Because he wasted the time of day on Julius Lamptey and Al Jefferson?

Bitch and moan about whatever you want to, but to claim that putting forth the effort to get a verbal from Jefferson was wasted is plain stupid.  If he went to college, we had him, and any rational person gives Heath credit for that.
Not that I think any of you posters are rational.

Everyone but us knew he was going pro.  We held a spot for him way into the darkness.  Got nothing in return, precisely one year after we did the same thing waiting for Lamptey.  Yes, zero percent chance of success is a stupid way to do business.  And you are a consistent fool.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2005, 10:52:55 pm by Spamalot »
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PerryHog

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2005, 06:55:51 am »

Sure we need a point guard. And a shooter. But even without those this year, we had the talent to win 20 to 22 games. Just not the coach.
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muslimsdonteatme

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2005, 09:12:41 am »

Because he wasted the time of day on Julius Lamptey and Al Jefferson?

Bitch and moan about whatever you want to, but to claim that putting forth the effort to get a verbal from Jefferson was wasted is plain stupid.  If he went to college, we had him, and any rational person gives Heath credit for that.
Not that I think any of you posters are rational.

Everyone but us knew he was going pro.  We held a spot for him way into the darkness. Got nothing in return, precisely one year after we did the same thing waiting for Lamptey. Yes, zero percent chance of success is a stupid way to do business. And you are a consistent fool.

Zero percent?  Where in hell do you get zero percent?  Were we the only ones who recruited Jefferson?  No.
Were we the only ones holding a schollie for him?  Of course.  Heath got the verbal, and had to.

We took a chance at a DOMINANT player, and it didn't work out.  I still credit Heath for taking that chance.  You guys don't really need to make crap up to bash Heath about.  He's given you plenty of ammo already.
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muslimsdonteatme

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2005, 09:14:51 am »

got to have a P G to run we don't have one . mccurdy may not be the answer . you don't want a freshmen running the team
 we have no direction & no clue how to make adjustments on the floor as the game goes on .

Will you graduate this year? You plan to attend college?

I see you're still the smart-ass, "midsection of a camel's toe" you always were, Muzzy. I suggest you hop back over to the political board. You're out of your element here.

He answered my question.  What is your problem?  Do you have anything to add other than insults?
Maybe you should mosey on back to P&R if that's all you've got.
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Porkahontas

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2005, 09:39:41 am »

I don't blame Heath a bit for going out and recruiting Al Jefferson.

When Jefferson gave the Hogs the commitment, he was being projected as a probable 2nd round pick. Things pointed the direction of a year or two in college before he committed to the Hogs.

From there, Jefferson went out and absolutely dominated during his senior year in high school. You could almost imagine Heath getting online to see what Jefferson did from game to game at his high school, cussing that Jefferson was averaging about 40 points and 15 blocks a game. Heath could practically see Jefferson slipping away with each game he played. But like I said, that was all after the commit. Had Jefferson got hurt and missed time duirng the season, or even just had a decent year instead of an absolutely perfect season personally, he could've very well ended up at Arkansas.

Of all the things I'm frustrated at Stan Heath for, recruiting Al Jefferson isn't one of them.
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tophawg19

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2005, 09:47:39 am »

yes we had a chance at al j . but we missed on other needs dontell was a gamble at a time when we couldn't afford it .
if you have to take a chance on a player make it on a freshmen . if your wrong he still has time to develop 4 yrs .
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WilsonHog

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2005, 09:57:34 am »

Details, gentlemen, just details.

Cut to the chase - did we win an acceptable number of games, and perform well enough in those games, to keep the fan base happy?

Yay, or nay?

The rest are just details. 
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Porkahontas

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2005, 10:06:34 am »

Details, gentlemen, just details.

Cut to the chase - did we win an acceptable number of games, and perform well enough in those games, to keep the fan base happy?

Yay, or nay?

The rest are just details.

18 wins isn't bad, but considering that our only quality wins came against LSU and possibly Mizzou (is a win against a team that finishes the year 16-16 really a quality win?), it puts a bad taste in a persons mouth.

With the schedule the Hogs went through last year, 20 or 21 wins and slipping into the NCAA tournament wasn't an unrealistic expectation. I expected at least a .500 finish in a very weak SEC West.
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SultanofSwine

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2005, 10:18:05 am »

Wilson the only thing I would add to that is to point out that the best point guard and the best shooter in the world will not overcome a pure lack of coaching.

I really hate it that we didn't play teams like UAB, Vermont, and Bucknell this year. Those teams are coached and would have waxed our arse. Talent will keep you close but defense and coaching win titles. Glad so many are happy with being close.
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sm0kenj0e

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2005, 10:33:35 am »

Stan is an excellent coach.
Once he figures out how to keep them from getting intimadated on the road; he'll start winning.
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tophawg19

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2005, 10:39:38 am »

we performed poorly in all ASPECTS of the game if we could play teams from 200 down we could make the NCAAtourny .otherwise don't count on it .
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Fatty McGee

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2005, 01:22:03 pm »

got to have a P G to run we don't have one . mccurdy may not be the answer . you don't want a freshmen running the team
 we have no direction & no clue how to make adjustments on the floor as the game goes on .

Will you graduate this year? You plan to attend college?

I see you're still the smart-ass, "midsection of a camel's toe" you always were, Muzzy. I suggest you hop back over to the political board. You're out of your element here.

Yes, because only right thinking geniuses hang out here!
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Fatty McGee

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2005, 01:22:51 pm »


I really hate it that we didn't play teams like UAB, Vermont, and Bucknell this year. Those teams are coached and would have waxed our arse. Talent will keep you close but defense and coaching win titles. Glad so many are happy with being close.

Yeah, I'm sure Vermont, who lost by 25 to Maine, would have waxed our ass.

Damn, some of you will type any ignorant thing that pops in your head.
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The_Bionic_Pig

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Early in the season didn't we destroy creighton by like 30+
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2005, 01:35:38 pm »

and didn't they same team almost make it to the sweet 16teen  ???
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Kevin

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2005, 01:39:32 pm »

vermont has a pro big man on their team.  if we played them anywhere but bwa, they would beat us. 
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Fatty McGee

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2005, 01:48:25 pm »

vermont has a pro big man on their team. if we played them anywhere but bwa, they would beat us.

Sure.  Of course.  We just can't compete with pro big men.  That's why we took Mississippi State to the wire, and beat LSU twice. 

How would we ever overcome?
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Kevin

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2005, 01:52:17 pm »

lsu, he has a pro big man.  they have a big man.  took msu to the wire at bwa, what happen in starkville without their guard?  and to tell you how good it was we kept it close, auburn blew them out at home.  plus, i down care about being close.  or taking people down to the wire.  brandon crump ate us up at the sect
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Kevin

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2005, 01:54:17 pm »

this discussion between me and you is getting old.  i know you love heath and want to give him the rest of his career to get it right.  i choose to disagree.  i am not going to respond any more.  wasting my breath and knowledge.
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Fatty McGee

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2005, 01:59:22 pm »

this discussion between me and you is getting old. i know you love heath and want to give him the rest of his career to get it right. i choose to disagree. i am not going to respond any more. wasting my breath and knowledge.

It is old, mainly because you keep misreading what I wrote.  Heath has one more year with me, and if he doesn't make the Tourney, we should move on. 

And trust me, you haven't wasted that much knowledge.
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Sanctified Swine

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2005, 10:59:38 pm »

I have the feeling that as long as you are moving forward in the conference win column, you keep the coach. Its not like we went backwards. I will admit that going from 4 conf wins to 6 is slower than I would like to see, but it is an increase. Next year, lets hold out for another increase - if it doesn't happen - then make a move. I can't see firing a coach who actually increased in conference wins from the previous year. One step at a time fellas - first improve conference wins, then worry about tourney performance. Logic holds that if we keep improving each year - we will get there.

by perserverance the snail reached the ark
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Biggus Piggus

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2005, 11:02:26 pm »

It was not an increase, it was a substantial weakening in schedule strength.  Remember, this year Georgia had nothing, last year we lost to them.  This year, Ole Miss had nothing, last year we split with them.  Ta da, there's your improvement.

Next season, the schedule strength is going to go back up, way up.  I don't know whether the SEC will get better overall, but the nonconference schedule is going to be dramatically tougher.  They're talking about having at least five top 50 teams on the schedule before January.

If the only difference between this year's team and the previous two was schedule strength (and it was, each year's improvement was due to weaker schedule), then the amount of improvement necessary to produce a decent record next year is astronomical.  I hope that most of the problems are mental, team confidence and infighting, things that a good coach can address.  And I hope this guy can address them with some effectiveness.  And I hope he finds a way, despite his getting a very late start, to add more than one guard to next year's team.  It is disturbing that he did not recognize the guard shortcomings until February.  My neighbor's dog saw them last October.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2005, 12:21:58 am by Spamalot »
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Sanctified Swine

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2005, 01:15:51 pm »

either way

if he wins more conference games than they year before, I say keep him. If not - time to cut him loose
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Kevin

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2005, 02:31:57 pm »

so 7-9 or 8-8 in the conference next year is acceptable.
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hogindallas

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #43 on: March 21, 2005, 04:29:32 pm »

Hello all....new to the board...I don't consider myself "pro-Heath" necessarily, but I am one to make sure one is given the full benefit of the doubt before beheading him.  We all see glaring weaknesses in the team's chemistry, personality, and direction. Which ARE ALL the head coach's responsibilities...no argument there.  I personally believe Heath was a bit over his head when he accepted the job here, and is very much so learning on the job.  Is that an excuse for mediocrity?...NO...I DO feel like next year's performance is a key factor if S.H. is employed here the following season...calling it my "Broyles intellect"

My gripe with Heath is I don't feel he's motivated and/or disciplined this team enough.....in game, and otherwise, to take control of the program like our ol' boy Nolan did.  Are we maybe a little deficient in the guard position....1 and 2? YES!....but talent is on campus....and another season with this type of disappointing ending....with (hopefully) recruited help with some quality talent readily available....will spell T-H-E  E-N-D for Heath.  I like the guy, he's a class act, and has the basic package to win here...soon. 

The unanswered questions are to be determined by Heath himself, his management skills, how they develop,changes in philosophies and his staff, and his ability to make adjustments on the fly..which I HOPE will all improve in the VERY near future....for SH's sake...and for the HOG faithful....because I don't see us dong anything but setting ourselves up for another couple of yrs of mediocrity, even if we FIRE him after next season.  I'm giving him next season, and hope to be satisfied with the improvements made by then...if not, I'll be with you guys at the gallow's pole.

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Eddie Goodson

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2005, 05:55:36 pm »

I heard Heath mentioned on Fox Sports Radio today. They were talking about Pearl at Wisconsin-Milwaukee and they likelyhood that he would be getting job offers to move up the coaching ladder. They were saying the guys at mid-majors who make a run deep into the tourney get the better jobs and either go on to more success or end up like Stan Heath. That's almost a quote. I think it was Chris Meyers who said it, but I can't swear to it.
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Call Mr. Sow

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2005, 09:49:21 am »

I have the feeling that as long as you are moving forward in the conference win column, you keep the coach. Its not like we went backwards. I will admit that going from 4 conf wins to 6 is slower than I would like to see, but it is an increase. Next year, lets hold out for another increase - if it doesn't happen - then make a move. I can't see firing a coach who actually increased in conference wins from the previous year. One step at a time fellas - first improve conference wins, then worry about tourney performance. Logic holds that if we keep improving each year - we will get there.

by perserverance the snail reached the ark

So you're saying we should keep Heath if he makes it to seven conference wins next season?  Hey, at that rate he could have us back in the big dance by 2008!  Woo Pig Sooie! 

The snail ain't reaching the ark before the flood hits at this rate. 
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FrostyHog

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #46 on: March 22, 2005, 12:56:25 pm »

I think if we give S.H two more recruiting years we would be back in the national championship race again. Remember, the majority of are player are just freshmen that lack good judgement.. Judgement will improve as they mature.. 8)
Freshmen at other schools don't seem to have as much trouble as ours do???  Washington kid at Memphis, the 2 at Florida, etc...
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Ft.SmithHog

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2005, 05:46:36 pm »

I remember the Kent St. team S.H took the the Eleite 8. Kent St. could run the full cout as well as the half court set. S.H uses the same playbook as Michagin St. uses. Which Michagin St has been very sucessfull over the last few years. I believe in the system he coaches, I just dont believe we have enough talent and skilled players to run that kind of system yet. The entire system revolves around th PG.  Once we land a good PG you will see a totaly different team.
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gatecrasher

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2005, 05:52:17 pm »


I really hate it that we didn't play teams like UAB, Vermont, and Bucknell this year. Those teams are coached and would have waxed our arse. Talent will keep you close but defense and coaching win titles. Glad so many are happy with being close.

Yeah, I'm sure Vermont, who lost by 25 to Maine, would have waxed our ass.

Damn, some of you will type any ignorant thing that pops in your head.
Right now, at this stage of the season, Vermont, Bucknell, AND Wisconsin-Milwaukee would kick our a$$es!!  In December...no, we would have beaten them by 30.  Alabama should be lucky UWM didn't beat THEM by 30!  they may not have been very good in November...but here in March, they are 80 minutes away from the Final Four.  That's a good basketball team.  Bet I can't get you to say that Fatty!  It would kill you to say that, huh? 
« Last Edit: March 23, 2005, 08:20:17 am by gatecrasherfan »
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gatecrasher

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Re: Keep Stan Heath?
« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2005, 05:55:11 pm »

so 7-9 or 8-8 in the conference next year is acceptable.
Acceptable---at least 10 SEC wins...NCAA lock before the conference tourney...and NO one and done in the NCAA...that would be my standard if I had anything to do with it.
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