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Author Topic: Stan then and now...  (Read 5370 times)

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El Dog Hog

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Stan then and now...
« on: March 10, 2005, 12:16:14 am »

With stan on the "hot seat" by some of the postesrs here, I thought it would be informative to look at what he came here with.

Roster from 02:
(illinois game program)

Carl Baker, Jamar Blackmon, Kendrick Davis, Blake Eddins, Eric Ferguson, Dionisio Gomez, Matt Jones, Mike Jones, Alonzo Lane, Pookie
Wenbos Mukubu, Billy Pharis, Larry Satchell, Rashard Sullivan, Charles Tatum.

There is maybe one player (Pookie) who you could make a case for being all sec. No big man, no point guard, forward or center. Larry Satchell would be a decent role player for him if he recruited him now, and had 2-3 years. Blake Eddins is at best a role player along with baby shaq lane. Ferguson would be a good gaurd to come off the bench and score. And he has done a nice job of doing that.

03 Roster. From the Media Guide

Jamar Blackmon, Kendrick Davis, E Ferg, Mike Jones, Pookie, Wenbos Mukubu, Rashard Sullivan, Charles Tatum, Ronnie, Preston Cranford, Olu, Vince Hunter, Billy Pharis, and Matt came after football. And wasnt in the media guide.

Olu, Ronni, Pookie, and Vince are good enough to be players in the SEC. Vince probably coming off the bench along with e ferg.  We lacked size in the middle. Stan goes after big man, its a focal point, Our best big man also doubles as QB for out Football team, and is now in the NFL.

Pharis at best is a shooting big man, that can knock down a wide open shot. Lets not forget that this team lost to Western Carolina. No big man, and we could tell it was missing.

SO 04 Roster:

Ronnie, Olu, E Feg, Pookie, Preston, Charles Thomas, Steven Hill, Townes, Donrell, Mike Jones, Rashard Sullivan, Vince Hunter, Sammy Munsey, Marcus Monk.

Minus Monk and Munsey and Preston, everyone else has atleast been able to contribute to this team. Look at this team, compared to what we had back in 02.

Ronnie, Ole, Pook, Charles Thomas, Townes, Hill, can all start and produce in the SEC. Dontell has been a miss so far, rashard is a rebounder. E ferg and vince would be solid coming off the bench.

All that to say this. Stan has held the head coaching job at this great universoty for 3 years now. I remember when he first came here, back in 02. I was in searcy going to school there at the time, and I heard him speak at a razorback club up there. After he talked, he took some questions. He faced more football questions, and people wondering how fast batman really was, and if Matt Jones shoulder was holding up. No one at all cared about basketball. We were excited to have a head coach. It was about.... 2 weeks before we played Boise State in the season opener, but still, no one cared really. Stan, if nothing else, has atleast got us a heartbeat again. We (fans) atleast care to look if we win or lose. We expect to win again. Looking back over the rosters and what he had to deal with. Its not out of the possibility to say that this year was his first 'real' year. Last year being his first recruiting class (ronnie, ole class). So how about, instead of jumping off the ship, atleast give him a chance. Let him get his players, get his system running. I realize he has his big man, but they are FRESHMAN PEOPLE. Let them grow, let them get better. We are about to sign another shooterr for next years class, to add with a point gaurd and a big power forward.

People say he's one and done, after the year he had at kent state. How about Mike Davis, the coach at IU. He hasnt done anything since he's been there, and he's been given 5 years.

Sometimes is good to look at where we were, and how far we have come. That first team he had, was a team full of role players at best. 03 had no big men, and 04's team is young. Its something VERY nice to build around though.
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Boarcephus

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2005, 05:17:29 am »

the one thing that just gets me is that he let Kendrick Davis go and brought in D. Jefferson. Davis wasn't great, i'm not about to make that case, but he is/was far better than Jefferson. Offensively far superior and at least equal on the defensive end. Big eval. mistake here and this team has paid for it.

I'm not a big Stan fan anymore but won't gig him on this one.  He needed, and still needs a point guard, and KD was not the answer.  It takes a pretty good size sack to cut a player loose at the collegiate level and he did just that for the betterment of his team.   Only mistake was Jefferson has not panned out and may not ever pan out as far as a true PG put at least Heath did recognize the problem and attempted to solve it.
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Illinihog

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2005, 05:42:45 am »

I agree Boarcephus. The only problem I have with letting Davis go is he could've been the zone buster we needed.  I know he was streaky at best sometimes, but if for one game we could've gotten one of those streaks you just never know.  When the moved happened and we got rid of him I wasn't upset, still not actually but the Heath Nah-sayers can point their fingers at that.  You telling me he couldn't have hit 1 Jumper in any of those droughts to Kentucky, Miss St., Alabama etc......Hell we know he likes to take the last shot look at Miss St. as a Freshmen.  Oh well tourney time.  I just want to see us come out and play a good game.  I think we got one left in us, I think a few of these guys have to much pride to get blown out.  We'll see what happens.
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Biggus Piggus

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2005, 09:01:48 am »

The change in the roster only underscores the problem with this season.  The talent level is dramatically improved, but the team's performance has not improved in three seasons.  Some things get better, others slide.  The only improvement in W-L this season came from weaker schedule strength.  That should not have happened.  Some of you guys think that by simply pointing out this fact I am calling for the end of the world.

Regardless of the performance to date, this is tourney time and Heath's chance to prove himself again.  If he gets the team together and performs strongly in the SECT, I'll be very happy just like I was five years ago.  The win five years ago was not much of an indicator of the future, but winning these things is what it's all about.  They whiffed on the conference regular season, but this is another season.
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Amityvillehogger

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2005, 09:04:42 am »

That would be something to see if they won the tourney, i'd like to see all the stan haters faces if they won it all.......but then again....it is early in the morning and im not thinking clearly. ;)
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hawgjowls

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2005, 09:15:41 am »

the one thing that just gets me is that he let Kendrick Davis go and brought in D. Jefferson. Davis wasn't great, i'm not about to make that case, but he is/was far better than Jefferson. Offensively far superior and at least equal on the defensive end. Big eval. mistake here and this team has paid for it.
the one thing that just gets me is that he let Kendrick Davis go and brought in D. Jefferson. Davis wasn't great, i'm not about to make that case, but he is/was far better than Jefferson. Offensively far superior and at least equal on the defensive end. Big eval. mistake here and this team has paid for it.
read on another board the other day than wenbos and kendrick did something in atlanta during the sec tourn that decided there fate.
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Biggus Piggus

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2005, 09:22:04 am »

That would be something to see if they won the tourney, i'd like to see all the stan haters faces if they won it all.......but then again....it is early in the morning and im not thinking clearly. ;)

Everybody would be ecstatic.  Why do you think anybody cares?  Because they want to win.
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hawkeyefan17

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2005, 09:22:49 am »

El Dog Hog, very good post. I agree with pretty much everything you said. I like Stan Heath and think he is a good coach. Stan is building a good program, hang in there.

Mike Davis has taken Indiana to the final four.

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Jim Harris

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2005, 09:39:41 am »

That would be something to see if they won the tourney, i'd like to see all the stan haters faces if they won it all.......but then again....it is early in the morning and im not thinking clearly. ;)

Everybody would be ecstatic. Why do you think anybody cares? Because they want to win.

Even Frank Broyles would be happy this time if they won the SEC Tournament.
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El Dog Hog

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2005, 09:46:27 am »

El Dog Hog, very good post. I agree with pretty much everything you said. I like Stan Heath and think he is a good coach. Stan is building a good program, hang in there.

Mike Davis has taken Indiana to the final four.



Yeah thats true, but it wasnt his players. He had one good year with coach knights players, and hasnt done much since. Its been a few years now, and they have struggled mightly.

Also, look at UNC. The senior class this year lost 20 games, 20!!!!!!!!!!!! When they were freshman. Alot of people thought the firing of daughtery was uncalled for. It woiuld be the same thing with us. Let stan bring in great players, then fire him and let someone else come in and take all the credit for it. And thats what some people want to do.
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Brett Hitman Hog

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2005, 10:18:58 am »

El Dog Hog, very good post. I agree with pretty much everything you said. I like Stan Heath and think he is a good coach. Stan is building a good program, hang in there.

Mike Davis has taken Indiana to the final four.



Yeah thats true, but it wasnt his players. He had one good year with coach knights players, and hasnt done much since. Its been a few years now, and they have struggled mightly.

Also, look at UNC. The senior class this year lost 20 games, 20!!!!!!!!!!!! When they were freshman. Alot of people thought the firing of daughtery was uncalled for. It woiuld be the same thing with us. Let stan bring in great players, then fire him and let someone else come in and take all the credit for it. And thats what some people want to do.
Fans of any school want good things for their program, and if the coaches don't deliver it will be expected to want one that will.  That is what happened to Doughtery at UNC and to Heath right now.  For UNC at least, they should never have a 20 loss season with the blue chippers that come in, unless the coach can't get the team on the same page and can't demand respect from his players.  When that happens A) players jump ship B) The AD says this ain't working and find someone that can do the good things. 

Right now with Heath it ain't working.  The players aren't all on the same page and he's sure not commanding respect from them either.  You can't be buddy-buddy all the time.  I'm not a Heath-hater, he's a very nice guy, but it ain't working.  You can say this is his first year with a talented team.  I agree with that. We have more wins this season, I'll agree with that.  But the quality of wins aren't there.  Below .500 in the SEC is not a good thing ... and nothing really has improved there and that's were it counts.  We can beat Winthrop and Bovine U. all we want no matter who Heath has playing for him, but it all is worthless if we don't convert those wins into Confernence wins down the line.
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hawkeyefan17

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2005, 10:29:09 am »

Indiana's problem is they still think they are on the same level that they were at with Bobby Knight. They still go play Kentucky and other tough non-conference teams as though nothing has changed. Knight still casts a long shadow and always will.

Heath should stay and I can't believe everyone is already talking about him being gone. If you get another coach in here and he wins everyone will say "Yeah but he's winning with Heath's players."

Heath should stay and continue building. I am a full supporter of his. I am one of a dwindling few I am begining to see.
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Brett Hitman Hog

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2005, 10:32:17 am »

If you get another coach in here and he wins everyone will say "Yeah but he's winning with Heath's players."

At least someone would be winning with them.   Heath should be doing it because they have the talent, but somethings don't workout in the real world like they do on paper.  It's a sad reality, but it's true.  If he can change his formula, I'd love to keep him ... it's broke and needs fixin' and don't know if duct tape will do this time.
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Fatty McGee

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2005, 11:09:02 am »

El Dog Hog, very good post. I agree with pretty much everything you said. I like Stan Heath and think he is a good coach. Stan is building a good program, hang in there.

Mike Davis has taken Indiana to the final four.



Yeah thats true, but it wasnt his players. He had one good year with coach knights players, and hasnt done much since. Its been a few years now, and they have struggled mightly.

Also, look at UNC. The senior class this year lost 20 games, 20!!!!!!!!!!!! When they were freshman. Alot of people thought the firing of daughtery was uncalled for. It woiuld be the same thing with us. Let stan bring in great players, then fire him and let someone else come in and take all the credit for it. And thats what some people want to do.
Right now with Heath it ain't working. The players aren't all on the same page and he's sure not commanding respect from them either. You can't be buddy-buddy all the time. I'm not a Heath-hater, he's a very nice guy, but it ain't working. You can say this is his first year with a talented team. I agree with that. We have more wins this season, I'll agree with that. But the quality of wins aren't there. Below .500 in the SEC is not a good thing ... and nothing really has improved there and that's were it counts. We can beat Winthrop and Bovine U. all we want no matter who Heath has playing for him, but it all is worthless if we don't convert those wins into Confernence wins down the line.

A lot of this same stuff was said during Nolan's early years as well.
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Biggus Piggus

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2005, 11:30:52 am »

But during Nolan's early years, the only season in which there were no signs of progress was the first one.  We started defending home court in year two.  And even in year one, we played five overtime games.  People forget that.
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Theolesnort

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2005, 11:39:33 am »

I would be solidly behind Stan IF- A lot of you are saying that Stan's teams are building, that we are getting better talent more wins etc... But be objective and look at it like this. No matter what the talent situation is this year did the team get better as the season went along that's the improvement you should look at and the answer is a resounding NO! In fact contradictory to a headline in the paper about the team not being in disarray, that is the only way that it can be described. Eddie Sutton could be coaching this team and with the same results I would describe them as being in disarray. A real shambles. What I don't know for a fact is could this be an abnormality? Again don't know but one thing is for certain Stan is  behind the eight ball right now and he has a lot to prove.
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El Dog Hog

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2005, 12:26:50 pm »

El Dog Hog, very good post. I agree with pretty much everything you said. I like Stan Heath and think he is a good coach. Stan is building a good program, hang in there.

Mike Davis has taken Indiana to the final four.



Yeah thats true, but it wasnt his players. He had one good year with coach knights players, and hasnt done much since. Its been a few years now, and they have struggled mightly.

Also, look at UNC. The senior class this year lost 20 games, 20!!!!!!!!!!!! When they were freshman. Alot of people thought the firing of daughtery was uncalled for. It woiuld be the same thing with us. Let stan bring in great players, then fire him and let someone else come in and take all the credit for it. And thats what some people want to do.
Fans of any school want good things for their program, and if the coaches don't deliver it will be expected to want one that will. That is what happened to Doughtery at UNC and to Heath right now. For UNC at least, they should never have a 20 loss season with the blue chippers that come in, unless the coach can't get the team on the same page and can't demand respect from his players. When that happens A) players jump ship B) The AD says this ain't working and find someone that can do the good things.

Right now with Heath it ain't working. The players aren't all on the same page and he's sure not commanding respect from them either. You can't be buddy-buddy all the time. I'm not a Heath-hater, he's a very nice guy, but it ain't working. You can say this is his first year with a talented team. I agree with that. We have more wins this season, I'll agree with that. But the quality of wins aren't there. Below .500 in the SEC is not a good thing ... and nothing really has improved there and that's were it counts. We can beat Winthrop and Bovine U. all we want no matter who Heath has playing for him, but it all is worthless if we don't convert those wins into Confernence wins down the line.


Lets not forget Western Carolina so soon my friend. How we just dropped that one out of the blue. Also, we won a game on the road. Even if it was ole piss. Road wins had haunted this team for a while now. To build you have to... build on things. You build on not losing to lesser teams in non conference. You build on a road win. So you can look back and say, We've done this before, so we can do it again, and it should be expected. It had been a long time, since 96 I believe that we had swept ole miss. Given a decent team, stan has some success against them. Close wins against LSU and Rocky top, all though at home, you build on. You get in a close game and the coach says, remember when LSU tried to come back, or remember when we played good D late to not let Tenn score and win. We're building. Those are just a few examples. Another one, Ronnie making all SEC 1st team. 10 years since a hog had done that. We're building. Its the little things that you build on. Thats why its so important to play a post season tourney this year. You take steps, that would be a stepping stone. Even if its the NIT. You've got to start somewhere. We're building.
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The Rub

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2005, 12:39:54 pm »

El Dog Hog, very good post. I agree with pretty much everything you said. I like Stan Heath and think he is a good coach. Stan is building a good program, hang in there.

Mike Davis has taken Indiana to the final four.



Yeah thats true, but it wasnt his players. He had one good year with coach knights players, and hasnt done much since. Its been a few years now, and they have struggled mightly.

Also, look at UNC. The senior class this year lost 20 games, 20!!!!!!!!!!!! When they were freshman. Alot of people thought the firing of daughtery was uncalled for. It woiuld be the same thing with us. Let stan bring in great players, then fire him and let someone else come in and take all the credit for it. And thats what some people want to do.
Fans of any school want good things for their program, and if the coaches don't deliver it will be expected to want one that will. That is what happened to Doughtery at UNC and to Heath right now. For UNC at least, they should never have a 20 loss season with the blue chippers that come in, unless the coach can't get the team on the same page and can't demand respect from his players. When that happens A) players jump ship B) The AD says this ain't working and find someone that can do the good things.

Right now with Heath it ain't working. The players aren't all on the same page and he's sure not commanding respect from them either. You can't be buddy-buddy all the time. I'm not a Heath-hater, he's a very nice guy, but it ain't working. You can say this is his first year with a talented team. I agree with that. We have more wins this season, I'll agree with that. But the quality of wins aren't there. Below .500 in the SEC is not a good thing ... and nothing really has improved there and that's were it counts. We can beat Winthrop and Bovine U. all we want no matter who Heath has playing for him, but it all is worthless if we don't convert those wins into Confernence wins down the line.


Lets not forget Western Carolina so soon my friend. How we just dropped that one out of the blue. Also, we won a game on the road. Even if it was ole piss. Road wins had haunted this team for a while now. To build you have to... build on things. You build on not losing to lesser teams in non conference. You build on a road win. So you can look back and say, We've done this before, so we can do it again, and it should be expected. It had been a long time, since 96 I believe that we had swept ole miss. Given a decent team, stan has some success against them. Close wins against LSU and Rocky top, all though at home, you build on. You get in a close game and the coach says, remember when LSU tried to come back, or remember when we played good D late to not let Tenn score and win. We're building. Those are just a few examples. Another one, Ronnie making all SEC 1st team. 10 years since a hog had done that. We're building. Its the little things that you build on. Thats why its so important to play a post season tourney this year. You take steps, that would be a stepping stone. Even if its the NIT. You've got to start somewhere. We're building.

El Dog, I sense a theme in your post but can't quite put my finger on it......
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sooie dog

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2005, 12:42:27 pm »

I think he's talking about building an out house to cover up the stink.  That's the only thing I can think of.
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El Dog Hog

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2005, 12:47:09 pm »

Yeah, I could be talking about that. But im probably not
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Fatty McGee

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2005, 12:53:30 pm »

But during Nolan's early years, the only season in which there were no signs of progress was the first one. We started defending home court in year two. And even in year one, we played five overtime games. People forget that.

Oh, so playing and losing overtime games counts as a sign of improvement, but playing and losing games by one or two points, that doesn't mean anything?

Sure, that makes sense.
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Flatfoot

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2005, 01:08:27 pm »

With stan on the "hot seat" by some of the postesrs here, I thought it would be informative to look at what he came here with.

Roster from 02:
(illinois game program)

Carl Baker, Jamar Blackmon, Kendrick Davis, Blake Eddins, Eric Ferguson, Dionisio Gomez, Matt Jones, Mike Jones, Alonzo Lane, Pookie
Wenbos Mukubu, Billy Pharis, Larry Satchell, Rashard Sullivan, Charles Tatum.

There is maybe one player (Pookie) who you could make a case for being all sec. No big man, no point guard, forward or center. Larry Satchell would be a decent role player for him if he recruited him now, and had 2-3 years. Blake Eddins is at best a role player along with baby shaq lane. Ferguson would be a good gaurd to come off the bench and score. And he has done a nice job of doing that.

03 Roster. From the Media Guide

Jamar Blackmon, Kendrick Davis, E Ferg, Mike Jones, Pookie, Wenbos Mukubu, Rashard Sullivan, Charles Tatum, Ronnie, Preston Cranford, Olu, Vince Hunter, Billy Pharis, and Matt came after football. And wasnt in the media guide.

Olu, Ronni, Pookie, and Vince are good enough to be players in the SEC. Vince probably coming off the bench along with e ferg. We lacked size in the middle. Stan goes after big man, its a focal point, Our best big man also doubles as QB for out Football team, and is now in the NFL.

Pharis at best is a shooting big man, that can knock down a wide open shot. Lets not forget that this team lost to Western Carolina. No big man, and we could tell it was missing.

SO 04 Roster:

Ronnie, Olu, E Feg, Pookie, Preston, Charles Thomas, Steven Hill, Townes, Donrell, Mike Jones, Rashard Sullivan, Vince Hunter, Sammy Munsey, Marcus Monk.

Minus Monk and Munsey and Preston, everyone else has atleast been able to contribute to this team. Look at this team, compared to what we had back in 02.

Ronnie, Ole, Pook, Charles Thomas, Townes, Hill, can all start and produce in the SEC. Dontell has been a miss so far, rashard is a rebounder. E ferg and vince would be solid coming off the bench.

All that to say this. Stan has held the head coaching job at this great universoty for 3 years now. I remember when he first came here, back in 02. I was in searcy going to school there at the time, and I heard him speak at a razorback club up there. After he talked, he took some questions. He faced more football questions, and people wondering how fast batman really was, and if Matt Jones shoulder was holding up. No one at all cared about basketball. We were excited to have a head coach. It was about.... 2 weeks before we played Boise State in the season opener, but still, no one cared really. Stan, if nothing else, has atleast got us a heartbeat again. We (fans) atleast care to look if we win or lose. We expect to win again. Looking back over the rosters and what he had to deal with. Its not out of the possibility to say that this year was his first 'real' year. Last year being his first recruiting class (ronnie, ole class). So how about, instead of jumping off the ship, atleast give him a chance. Let him get his players, get his system running. I realize he has his big man, but they are FRESHMAN PEOPLE. Let them grow, let them get better. We are about to sign another shooterr for next years class, to add with a point gaurd and a big power forward.

People say he's one and done, after the year he had at kent state. How about Mike Davis, the coach at IU. He hasnt done anything since he's been there, and he's been given 5 years.

Sometimes is good to look at where we were, and how far we have come. That first team he had, was a team full of role players at best. 03 had no big men, and 04's team is young. Its something VERY nice to build around though.

93-94 Scotty Thurman soph
         Corliss Williamson soph
equals National Title

If you have the talent, talent will overcome youth.  The youth argument is over for this team PERIOD!
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El Dog Hog

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2005, 01:37:10 pm »

With stan on the "hot seat" by some of the postesrs here, I thought it would be informative to look at what he came here with.

Roster from 02:
(illinois game program)

Carl Baker, Jamar Blackmon, Kendrick Davis, Blake Eddins, Eric Ferguson, Dionisio Gomez, Matt Jones, Mike Jones, Alonzo Lane, Pookie
Wenbos Mukubu, Billy Pharis, Larry Satchell, Rashard Sullivan, Charles Tatum.

There is maybe one player (Pookie) who you could make a case for being all sec. No big man, no point guard, forward or center. Larry Satchell would be a decent role player for him if he recruited him now, and had 2-3 years. Blake Eddins is at best a role player along with baby shaq lane. Ferguson would be a good gaurd to come off the bench and score. And he has done a nice job of doing that.

03 Roster. From the Media Guide

Jamar Blackmon, Kendrick Davis, E Ferg, Mike Jones, Pookie, Wenbos Mukubu, Rashard Sullivan, Charles Tatum, Ronnie, Preston Cranford, Olu, Vince Hunter, Billy Pharis, and Matt came after football. And wasnt in the media guide.

Olu, Ronni, Pookie, and Vince are good enough to be players in the SEC. Vince probably coming off the bench along with e ferg. We lacked size in the middle. Stan goes after big man, its a focal point, Our best big man also doubles as QB for out Football team, and is now in the NFL.

Pharis at best is a shooting big man, that can knock down a wide open shot. Lets not forget that this team lost to Western Carolina. No big man, and we could tell it was missing.

SO 04 Roster:

Ronnie, Olu, E Feg, Pookie, Preston, Charles Thomas, Steven Hill, Townes, Donrell, Mike Jones, Rashard Sullivan, Vince Hunter, Sammy Munsey, Marcus Monk.

Minus Monk and Munsey and Preston, everyone else has atleast been able to contribute to this team. Look at this team, compared to what we had back in 02.

Ronnie, Ole, Pook, Charles Thomas, Townes, Hill, can all start and produce in the SEC. Dontell has been a miss so far, rashard is a rebounder. E ferg and vince would be solid coming off the bench.

All that to say this. Stan has held the head coaching job at this great universoty for 3 years now. I remember when he first came here, back in 02. I was in searcy going to school there at the time, and I heard him speak at a razorback club up there. After he talked, he took some questions. He faced more football questions, and people wondering how fast batman really was, and if Matt Jones shoulder was holding up. No one at all cared about basketball. We were excited to have a head coach. It was about.... 2 weeks before we played Boise State in the season opener, but still, no one cared really. Stan, if nothing else, has atleast got us a heartbeat again. We (fans) atleast care to look if we win or lose. We expect to win again. Looking back over the rosters and what he had to deal with. Its not out of the possibility to say that this year was his first 'real' year. Last year being his first recruiting class (ronnie, ole class). So how about, instead of jumping off the ship, atleast give him a chance. Let him get his players, get his system running. I realize he has his big man, but they are FRESHMAN PEOPLE. Let them grow, let them get better. We are about to sign another shooterr for next years class, to add with a point gaurd and a big power forward.

People say he's one and done, after the year he had at kent state. How about Mike Davis, the coach at IU. He hasnt done anything since he's been there, and he's been given 5 years.

Sometimes is good to look at where we were, and how far we have come. That first team he had, was a team full of role players at best. 03 had no big men, and 04's team is young. Its something VERY nice to build around though.

93-94 Scotty Thurman soph
 Corliss Williamson soph
equals National Title

If you have the talent, talent will overcome youth. The youth argument is over for this team PERIOD!

04-05 Ronnie Brewer soph
??????????????

We dont have a Big Nasty right now. Plus you look at the older guys they had around them Al Dillard, Corey Beck, Clint McDaniel.  Ronnie has a bunch of good guys around him, and I do think Darien is a special enough player to lead us to the big time, but not as a freshman. PLUS Big Nasty redshirted. So he was a junior, and also practiced on teams with a Todd Day, Lee Mayberry, and Big O.

So that pretty much shot that down...
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Theolesnort

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2005, 01:44:45 pm »

Corliss did not red shirt.
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El Dog Hog

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2005, 02:31:03 pm »

No he didnt... your right. I thought that said RS. It said HS. My bad fellas. Go ahead and dis credit me. I deserve it on that one. I'll smite myself
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Brett Hitman Hog

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2005, 02:35:12 pm »

El Dog Hog, very good post. I agree with pretty much everything you said. I like Stan Heath and think he is a good coach. Stan is building a good program, hang in there.

Mike Davis has taken Indiana to the final four.



Yeah thats true, but it wasnt his players. He had one good year with coach knights players, and hasnt done much since. Its been a few years now, and they have struggled mightly.

Also, look at UNC. The senior class this year lost 20 games, 20!!!!!!!!!!!! When they were freshman. Alot of people thought the firing of daughtery was uncalled for. It woiuld be the same thing with us. Let stan bring in great players, then fire him and let someone else come in and take all the credit for it. And thats what some people want to do.
Fans of any school want good things for their program, and if the coaches don't deliver it will be expected to want one that will. That is what happened to Doughtery at UNC and to Heath right now. For UNC at least, they should never have a 20 loss season with the blue chippers that come in, unless the coach can't get the team on the same page and can't demand respect from his players. When that happens A) players jump ship B) The AD says this ain't working and find someone that can do the good things.

Right now with Heath it ain't working. The players aren't all on the same page and he's sure not commanding respect from them either. You can't be buddy-buddy all the time. I'm not a Heath-hater, he's a very nice guy, but it ain't working. You can say this is his first year with a talented team. I agree with that. We have more wins this season, I'll agree with that. But the quality of wins aren't there. Below .500 in the SEC is not a good thing ... and nothing really has improved there and that's were it counts. We can beat Winthrop and Bovine U. all we want no matter who Heath has playing for him, but it all is worthless if we don't convert those wins into Conference wins down the line.


Lets not forget Western Carolina so soon my friend. How we just dropped that one out of the blue. Also, we won a game on the road. Even if it was ole piss. Road wins had haunted this team for a while now. To build you have to... build on things. You build on not losing to lesser teams in non conference. You build on a road win. So you can look back and say, We've done this before, so we can do it again, and it should be expected. It had been a long time, since 96 I believe that we had swept ole miss. Given a decent team, stan has some success against them. Close wins against LSU and Rocky top, all though at home, you build on. You get in a close game and the coach says, remember when LSU tried to come back, or remember when we played good D late to not let Tenn score and win. We're building. Those are just a few examples. Another one, Ronnie making all SEC 1st team. 10 years since a hog had done that. We're building. Its the little things that you build on. Thats why its so important to play a post season tourney this year. You take steps, that would be a stepping stone. Even if its the NIT. You've got to start somewhere. We're building.

A game on the road is not enough.  This team should have won AT LSU .. AT Vandy ... AT Auburn.  We had KY on the ropes and couldn't finish ... we had Miss State on the ropes and couldn't finish ... both were at home.  There is a common problem and that's the team not finishing and that's a effect of coaching.  If he can get these guys to finish on the road at the SEC tournament I'll have no argument to stand on ... and will happily not bring it up again.  That is my only problem we can't finish because Coach doesn't keep their heads in the game and preach urgency.  Until that happens we haven't made any progress.
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Theolesnort

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2005, 02:49:17 pm »

El Dog Hog, you are granted absolution. Can't blame you for being a glass half full guy. Heck after Miss St I said I was through but I am a glutton for punishment and will be watching tonight and not to say I told you so but hoping for a miracle, go figure it must be a form of masochism that I have.
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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2005, 03:06:32 pm »

But during Nolan's early years, the only season in which there were no signs of progress was the first one. We started defending home court in year two. And even in year one, we played five overtime games. People forget that.

Oh, so playing and losing overtime games counts as a sign of improvement, but playing and losing games by one or two points, that doesn't mean anything?

Sure, that makes sense.

What the Frank are you talking about?  In Nolan's miserable first year when he won 12 games, he lost three in OT and won two.  Getting into OT--a regulation tie not a regulation loss you [CENSORED] moron--five times with that bunch was something no one ever gave him credit for.  They just remember it as the most unpleasant season since we started winning at all.  Good lord, you try to draw connections between the stupidest things.  In Heath's crappy third season, he should not get any credit for lesser accomplishments than Nolan had in his crappy first season.
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Fatty McGee

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2005, 03:41:36 pm »

But during Nolan's early years, the only season in which there were no signs of progress was the first one. We started defending home court in year two. And even in year one, we played five overtime games. People forget that.

Oh, so playing and losing overtime games counts as a sign of improvement, but playing and losing games by one or two points, that doesn't mean anything?

Sure, that makes sense.

What the phreak are you talking about? In Nolan's miserable first year when he won 12 games, he lost three in OT and won two. Getting into OT--a regulation tie not a regulation loss you farging moron--five times with that bunch was something no one ever gave him credit for. They just remember it as the most unpleasant season since we started winning at all. Good lord, you try to draw connections between the stupidest things. In Heath's crappy third season, he should not get any credit for lesser accomplishments than Nolan had in his crappy first season.

You've become very shrill over this.  It's sad.
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Fletch

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2005, 05:19:20 pm »

I think Stan should be given some credit for winning 9 games with the crap Nolan left him. If Nolan hadn't been fired, only way he would have won more games is because he would have had Iggy and J.J. Just my opinion but I am not a Nolan fan. I am a Stan fan for now because I think he deserves one more year. I hope he gets it done.
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Kevin

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2005, 05:21:56 pm »

as i have said before, nolan's first year he worked with jay crane, eric porshcee, allie freeman, and he played his style.  i don't know our talent level three years ago was not as good.
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Fatty McGee

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2005, 05:31:33 pm »

as i have said before, nolan's first year he worked with jay crane, eric porshcee, allie freeman, and he played his style. i don't know our talent level three years ago was not as good.

Who else was on that team?
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Fletch

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2005, 05:36:22 pm »

Ron Huery and Mario Credit.
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Fletch

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2005, 05:39:43 pm »

Huery and credit may have been NRs 2nd year. If so, my bad. I think it was 86-87 season.
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Boarcephus

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2005, 05:40:54 pm »

Ron Huery and Mario Credit.

Neither Mario or Huery was on Nolans first team.  Scott Rose and William Mills were there waiting on him when he showed up.
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Kevin

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2005, 05:58:13 pm »

mike ratliff, william mills, andrew lang, bryon irvin, allie freeman starting five
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Kevin

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2005, 06:00:58 pm »

heath's first year starter's  e-star, modica, carl baker, lane, gomez
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Fletch

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2005, 06:03:05 pm »

VS. Gomez, Baker, Satchell, Modica, and Ferguson. Can we agree to flip a coin. ;D
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Fatty McGee

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2005, 06:33:03 pm »

heath's first year starter's e-star, modica, carl baker, lane, gomez

Didn't Irvin play in the NBA?  I know Lang did. 

Who do you think's going to make the NBA out of Stan's first starting 5?
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rathog1

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2005, 06:37:11 pm »

mike ratliff, william mills, andrew lang, bryon irvin, allie freeman starting five

3 of those 5 played in the NBA, I can guarantee 3 of Heath's first 5 won't. As a matter of fact I'll go on record saying none will.
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El Dog Hog

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Re: Stan then and now...
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2005, 08:19:28 pm »

One of my buddys said Gomez couldnt play in the WNBA.
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