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Author Topic: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse  (Read 17339 times)

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Biggus Piggus

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If next year's team is to get better, a big part of it will be the contribution of newcomers.

Arkansas has to play some newcomers.  Not going to get any better at guard without them.

My guess also is the playing time of Rashard Sullivan (senior-to-be) will disappear in favor of Vincent Hunter (sophomore), Charles Thomas (sophomore) and Cyrus McGowan (freshman).

If you look at SEC games, the average experience level Arkansas has had on the floor has been a little bit older than sophomore.  My guesstimation is that next year it will average pretty squarely between sophomore and junior.

This year the PT has been:

3% seniors
40% juniors
29% sophomores
28% freshmen

Next year my forecast is:

25% seniors
25% juniors
30% sophomores
20% freshmen

The increase in upperclass minutes is meaningful but not dramatic.  I'll leave it to you to decide how good the seniors (Ferguson, Jefferson, Modica, Sullivan) will be, or whether it will even be their team to lead.

I could see a scenario, easily, in which all of the seniors-to-be would end up being second-unit players, if on the roster at all.

Perpetual youth, the Houston Nutt way of maintaining an excuse, could infect Stan Heath's basketball team.

Not necessarily bad.  If Heath is to run a system with more formal structure, he needs to narrow the player rotation.  Playing a lot of players does not help much if you are going just 60-65 possessions a game.
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hawgjowls

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2005, 11:49:56 am »

i hope vincent hunter returns and is successful. the 4 and 1 will be the areas where we really need someone to step up.
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returntoglory

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2005, 12:45:14 pm »

my excuse is we havent shown up for games. that is plain and simple. that falls on heath and the players. i am not calling for heath's head though. we have been progressively getting better. the players are inexperienced, but so is heath. i think that is where most of the problem is. the sec is slightly different from the mid american conference heath coached in. he is getting experience under his belt and that is nothing but good. he is going out and getting talented recruits, and once he figures out how to coach at a higher level, which he will, then we will have to suffer through some disappointing losses. but before too long we will be having surprising wins. just look back and see how far our talent level has come and look ahead to how that is going to help us in the near future. i bet within two years we will be top twenty five. earlier this year on espn they were talking how arkansas should be considered for the top twenty five. this was during our powderpuff schedule. they mentioned that although we did have a easy schedule we have a lot of talent. next year we will have a tougher schedule and more talent coming in. we definately arent losing anybody, and michael jones is not a loss. prepare for better years to come under heath. guarnateed.
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Biggus Piggus

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2005, 12:49:30 pm »

I wouldn't "guarnatee" a better season next year.  The nonconference schedule is going to be killer, with five or six easily loseable games, most away from home.  We could go 10-6 in the SEC and end up with double-digit defeats at the end of the regular season.  I just hope that it does get better in terms of the quality of play that we see.
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Fatty McGee

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2005, 12:50:54 pm »

my excuse is we havent shown up for games. that is plain and simple. that falls on heath and the players. i am not calling for heath's head though. we have been progressively getting better. the players are inexperienced, but so is heath. i think that is where most of the problem is. the sec is slightly different from the mid american conference heath coached in. he is getting experience under his belt and that is nothing but good. he is going out and getting talented recruits, and once he figures out how to coach at a higher level, which he will, then we will have to suffer through some disappointing losses. but before too long we will be having surprising wins. just look back and see how far our talent level has come and look ahead to how that is going to help us in the near future. i bet within two years we will be top twenty five. earlier this year on espn they were talking how arkansas should be considered for the top twenty five. this was during our powderpuff schedule. they mentioned that although we did have a easy schedule we have a lot of talent. next year we will have a tougher schedule and more talent coming in. we definately arent losing anybody, and michael jones is not a loss. prepare for better years to come under heath. guarnateed.

I don't understand how you "don't show up for games" and have so many games go down to the wire?  I could understand if your complaint was "we don't close games out", but it's pretty clear we show up and play hard.
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Fatty McGee

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2005, 12:53:23 pm »

And as for experience as an excuse, this team will be 20% better next year simply based on having basically the same players in the rotation for two consecutive years for the first time in Heath's tenure.  I realize some of you don't appreciate the importance of continuity in building a team though. 

Every senior will start at least one game this year.  Remember the discussions of Ferguson's relegation to the end of the bench before this year?  And talk he might even transfer?

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Biggus Piggus

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2005, 01:08:11 pm »

If there had been any continuity this season, I might believe they are building something.

Sometimes just getting through one season and on to the next is an improvement.
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returntoglory

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2005, 01:37:59 pm »

we dont show up for games that we freakin win. we beat ole miss by one and tenn by just a few points. there is no way that we should come within one of kentucky and beat ole miss by one. if we showed up every game like we played against kentucky, we would win the msu, bama, lsu, vandy games. that is a bid in the tourney cuz we didnt show up to games. we show up some just not consistantly. we have the problem of playing to the level of our competition  not the level of our talent. therefore we dont show up for games
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Fatty McGee

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2005, 05:57:40 pm »

And as for experience as an excuse, this team will be 20% better next year simply based on having basically the same players in the rotation for two consecutive years for the first time in Heath's tenure. I realize some of you don't appreciate the importance of continuity in building a team though.

Every senior will start at least one game this year. Remember the discussions of Ferguson's relegation to the end of the bench before this year? And talk he might even transfer?



If Ferguson transfers that will mean at least three more wins next year.  Famitimi transfer would mean at least two more. ;D

Exhibit #3.
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gatecrasher

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2005, 06:19:31 pm »

my excuse is we havent shown up for games. that is plain and simple. that falls on heath and the players. i am not calling for heath's head though. we have been progressively getting better. the players are inexperienced, but so is heath. i think that is where most of the problem is. the sec is slightly different from the mid american conference heath coached in. he is getting experience under his belt and that is nothing but good. he is going out and getting talented recruits, and once he figures out how to coach at a higher level, which he will, then we will have to suffer through some disappointing losses. but before too long we will be having surprising wins. just look back and see how far our talent level has come and look ahead to how that is going to help us in the near future. i bet within two years we will be top twenty five. earlier this year on espn they were talking how arkansas should be considered for the top twenty five. this was during our powderpuff schedule. they mentioned that although we did have a easy schedule we have a lot of talent. next year we will have a tougher schedule and more talent coming in. we definately arent losing anybody, and michael jones is not a loss. prepare for better years to come under heath. guarnateed.

I don't understand how you "don't show up for games" and have so many games go down to the wire? I could understand if your complaint was "we don't close games out", but it's pretty clear we show up and play hard.
the coaching sucks..period!!!  U saw that last possession against MSU Tuesday nite!  What the hell kind of play was called?  I've had 3 different scenarios given to me and none of it convinces me of anything other than Brewer was so indecisive with the basketball he couldn't figure out whether to dish or shoot!  His dad was an all-American so he came from good bloodlines.  It's COACHING YOU FREAKING HARDHEAD!!!!  You are more stubborn than my kids!
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pioneerhog

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2005, 06:32:43 pm »

I couldn't agree more. i believe that if next season we don't make it to the big dance, then yes we should be considering getting a new coach. The reason being is because by next year he should have enough players that he has recruit therefore they should fit his scheme. If they don't fit into is gameplans it is nobodys fault but his own.
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Fatty McGee

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2005, 06:51:04 pm »

my excuse is we havent shown up for games. that is plain and simple. that falls on heath and the players. i am not calling for heath's head though. we have been progressively getting better. the players are inexperienced, but so is heath. i think that is where most of the problem is. the sec is slightly different from the mid american conference heath coached in. he is getting experience under his belt and that is nothing but good. he is going out and getting talented recruits, and once he figures out how to coach at a higher level, which he will, then we will have to suffer through some disappointing losses. but before too long we will be having surprising wins. just look back and see how far our talent level has come and look ahead to how that is going to help us in the near future. i bet within two years we will be top twenty five. earlier this year on espn they were talking how arkansas should be considered for the top twenty five. this was during our powderpuff schedule. they mentioned that although we did have a easy schedule we have a lot of talent. next year we will have a tougher schedule and more talent coming in. we definately arent losing anybody, and michael jones is not a loss. prepare for better years to come under heath. guarnateed.

I don't understand how you "don't show up for games" and have so many games go down to the wire? I could understand if your complaint was "we don't close games out", but it's pretty clear we show up and play hard.
the coaching sucks..period!!! U saw that last possession against MSU Tuesday nite! What the hell kind of play was called? I've had 3 different scenarios given to me and none of it convinces me of anything other than Brewer was so indecisive with the basketball he couldn't figure out whether to dish or shoot! His dad was an all-American so he came from good bloodlines. It's COACHING YOU FREAKING HARDHEAD!!!! You are more stubborn than my kids!

Yeah, there's nothing dumber than putting the ball in the hands of your best offensive player for the last shot.  Horrible idea. 

Hey, Michigan may have an opening this year.  You should apply.
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returntoglory

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2005, 12:48:23 am »

actually i didnt get to see the game. all i do is post on stats cuz i cant watch the games. right now i am in school in italy and this is the only way i can really keep up with it. i just post stuff to play devil's advocate sometimes.
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HogInMemphis

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2005, 12:55:23 am »

Let Heath stay unitl he quits or moves on. Hog basketball is the worst it's been in 30 years, so it can't get any worse. 4 losing seasons in a row. No NCAAT 4 seasons in a row. We're done. The phase the program is in now is to see if you can fill 2/3's of the arena while not really worrying about wins. If a fan is going to lose interest, they've already lost it. Thus, the program is not going to sink any lower under Heath. Keep him and ride out the mediocrity the best you can and maybe in 10 or 15 years we'll have a lucky season and get back to the Final Four.
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El Dog Hog

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2005, 01:35:57 am »

Quote
the coaching sucks..period!!! U saw that last possession against MSU Tuesday nite! What the hell kind of play was called? I've had 3 different scenarios given to me and none of it convinces me of anything other than Brewer was so indecisive with the basketball he couldn't figure out whether to dish or shoot! His dad was an all-American so he came from good bloodlines. It's COACHING YOU FREAKING HARDHEAD!!!! You are more stubborn than my kids!
Quote


Hold on for a little basketball IQ. That play was called the "Pick and Roll." See thats when 2 players on the same team are in a certain spot on the court close to each other. The player with the ball dribbles past his man setting the "screen." Now, the player dribbling the ball has 2 options, 1) Drive to the basket and score/pull up 2) Pass it back to the man who set a "screen" and let him take the shot. This play works really well when you need a fast bucket. Its really famous in the NBA. Some guys named John Stockton and Karl Malone made this play really famous. John finsiehd as the all time assists (and steals) leader thanks to this play. And Karl is second all time in points scored. So, I would say this play has worked several million times. Not a bad play to draw up at the end of a game, esp in a close one when trying to get a basket for a win.

Now, the only problem was that they switched the "screen". Thus putting Lawrence Roberts on Ronnie Brewer. Ronnie should have dumped it down low to Townes who had the smaller Powers on him. But with about 4 seconds left he decided to take it to the rack. Ala, you have best player on your team trying to win you the game. Any normal time he should have passed it to Townes. But any normal time, they wouldnt be in a man-to-man against us either. So basically, you have about 6 seconds to not only to run the play, but also to react to it. Some of us cant tie our shoe in 6 seconds.

Attack something besdies a play thats ran everynight in the NBA, NBDL, College, high school, junior hiigh boys club, AAU. Thats probably one of the most basic plays in basketball. You really dont know much about it do you...
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Fatty McGee

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2005, 01:43:13 am »

Let Heath stay unitl he quits or moves on. Hog basketball is the worst it's been in 30 years, so it can't get any worse. 4 losing seasons in a row. No NCAAT 4 seasons in a row. We're done. The phase the program is in now is to see if you can fill 2/3's of the arena while not really worrying about wins. If a fan is going to lose interest, they've already lost it. Thus, the program is not going to sink any lower under Heath. Keep him and ride out the mediocrity the best you can and maybe in 10 or 15 years we'll have a lucky season and get back to the Final Four.

Awesome Possum, my friend!!
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return2glory

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2005, 08:57:53 am »


Quote
the coaching sucks..period!!! U saw that last possession against MSU Tuesday nite! What the hell kind of play was called? I've had 3 different scenarios given to me and none of it convinces me of anything other than Brewer was so indecisive with the basketball he couldn't figure out whether to dish or shoot! His dad was an all-American so he came from good bloodlines. It's COACHING YOU FREAKING HARDHEAD!!!! You are more stubborn than my kids!
Quote

You're 100% right! It's Heath's fault Brewer didn't read the pick and roll. Heath probably blew with all his might and made that shot airball. It's Heath's fault that we didn't block out on the free throw line. It's Heath's fault that Gary Ervin made a three with the shot clock running down after not scoring one point all night. We should definitely fire him. What were we thinking?
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hoggerdinger

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2005, 11:46:40 am »

 ???
Arkansas was known for what?.....40 minutes of hell.  We need a dominating bigman, quickness and speed at guard, an Oliver Miller type at the forward position, and a coach that has a hell of a temper pushing them.  I used to watch Nolan on the sidecourt chewing players asses.  We used to be feared, now its another game.
Full court press all day with these type players and a hard ass coach and we will be back in it again.
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Fatty McGee

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2005, 11:48:52 am »

???
Arkansas was known for what?.....40 minutes of hell. We need a dominating bigman, quickness and speed at guard, an Oliver Miller type at the forward position, and a coach that has a hell of a temper pushing them. I used to watch Nolan on the sidecourt chewing players asses. We used to be feared, now its another game.
Full court press all day with these type players and a hard ass coach and we will be back in it again.

Our best teams didn't press as much and played a pretty good halfcourt game.
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Biggus Piggus

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2005, 01:44:37 pm »

It's Heath's fault he has a poor mix of players despite having built the roster himself, and it's Heath's fault that his team is capable of running only a handful of offensive sets so that they run out of options at money time, and it's Heath's fault that his team plays defense like a bunch of grannies.
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Pragmatic PiG

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2005, 01:48:23 pm »

Quote
the coaching sucks..period!!! U saw that last possession against MSU Tuesday nite! What the hell kind of play was called? I've had 3 different scenarios given to me and none of it convinces me of anything other than Brewer was so indecisive with the basketball he couldn't figure out whether to dish or shoot! His dad was an all-American so he came from good bloodlines. It's COACHING YOU FREAKING HARDHEAD!!!! You are more stubborn than my kids!
Quote


Hold on for a little basketball IQ. That play was called the "Pick and Roll." See thats when 2 players on the same team are in a certain spot on the court close to each other. The player with the ball dribbles past his man setting the "screen." Now, the player dribbling the ball has 2 options, 1) Drive to the basket and score/pull up 2) Pass it back to the man who set a "screen" and let him take the shot. This play works really well when you need a fast bucket. Its really famous in the NBA. Some guys named John Stockton and Karl Malone made this play really famous. John finsiehd as the all time assists (and steals) leader thanks to this play. And Karl is second all time in points scored. So, I would say this play has worked several million times. Not a bad play to draw up at the end of a game, esp in a close one when trying to get a basket for a win.

Now, the only problem was that they switched the "screen". Thus putting Lawrence Roberts on Ronnie Brewer. Ronnie should have dumped it down low to Townes who had the smaller Powers on him. But with about 4 seconds left he decided to take it to the rack. Ala, you have best player on your team trying to win you the game. Any normal time he should have passed it to Townes. But any normal time, they wouldnt be in a man-to-man against us either. So basically, you have about 6 seconds to not only to run the play, but also to react to it. Some of us cant tie our shoe in 6 seconds.

Attack something besdies a play thats ran everynight in the NBA, NBDL, College, high school, junior hiigh boys club, AAU. Thats probably one of the most basic plays in basketball. You really dont know much about it do you...
did it work? you know the answer

the question isn't what this poster or that one knows, the question is what does SH know about it?

judging by what i see and the results, the answer is a resounding NOOOOOOO
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gatecrasher

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2005, 07:53:48 pm »

my excuse is we havent shown up for games. that is plain and simple. that falls on heath and the players. i am not calling for heath's head though. we have been progressively getting better. the players are inexperienced, but so is heath. i think that is where most of the problem is. the sec is slightly different from the mid american conference heath coached in. he is getting experience under his belt and that is nothing but good. he is going out and getting talented recruits, and once he figures out how to coach at a higher level, which he will, then we will have to suffer through some disappointing losses. but before too long we will be having surprising wins. just look back and see how far our talent level has come and look ahead to how that is going to help us in the near future. i bet within two years we will be top twenty five. earlier this year on espn they were talking how arkansas should be considered for the top twenty five. this was during our powderpuff schedule. they mentioned that although we did have a easy schedule we have a lot of talent. next year we will have a tougher schedule and more talent coming in. we definately arent losing anybody, and michael jones is not a loss. prepare for better years to come under heath. guarnateed.

I don't understand how you "don't show up for games" and have so many games go down to the wire? I could understand if your complaint was "we don't close games out", but it's pretty clear we show up and play hard.
the coaching sucks..period!!! U saw that last possession against MSU Tuesday nite! What the hell kind of play was called? I've had 3 different scenarios given to me and none of it convinces me of anything other than Brewer was so indecisive with the basketball he couldn't figure out whether to dish or shoot! His dad was an all-American so he came from good bloodlines. It's COACHING YOU FREAKING HARDHEAD!!!! You are more stubborn than my kids!

Yeah, there's nothing dumber than putting the ball in the hands of your best offensive player for the last shot. Horrible idea.

Hey, Michigan may have an opening this year. You should apply.
who scored the only points the last 6 1/2 minutes of the game?  Why didn't he get the last shot?  It wasn't Brewer now was it?  Nowhere in my post did I say anything about who should have had the ball.  I said he was indecisive with the ball.  I attribute that to suck-a$$ coaching.  Maybe it's you who would make a better coach at a prestigious Big 10 school.
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Kevin

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2005, 08:46:54 pm »

within two years we are going to be in the top 25.  that is five years into the program.  that is unacceptable to me.  win some games against decent opponents.
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return2glory

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2005, 09:26:00 pm »

It's Heath's fault he has a poor mix of players despite having built the roster himself, and it's Heath's fault that his team is capable of running only a handful of offensive sets so that they run out of options at money time, and it's Heath's fault that his team plays defense like a bunch of grannies.

  Biggus, just for the sake of arguement, Heath has only had two recruiting classes where he got the whole season to recruit. Both have produced All-Freshman team players, assuming that Townes makes it, which he should at least be considered for. The offensive point that you raise is a valid one, and cause for concern, but let's not forget that Heath is still learning as well. I must provide a rebuttal to your defense like grannies comment. Arkansas is #2 in the league in opponents PPG and in opponents FG%. I don't think that this is consistent with how my grandma would play. You're grandma might be able to hold SEC teams under 63ppg and under 41% shooting, I don't know, but something tells me that if she could, she is probably making a mediocre salary playing in the WNBA.
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Biggus Piggus

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2005, 09:28:15 pm »

You are not referring to SEC stats, just the ones that include all those turds we beat in the nonconference part of the schedule.  Don't be a dick.
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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2005, 09:37:41 pm »

This team is in disarray and still some people are finding rays of sunshine. Go figure     Heath should have started taking names and kicking butt one week after conference started. It is to late now for the team and it may be to late to save his own butt now.
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gatecrasher

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2005, 09:45:20 pm »

 >:( He wasn't the right man for the job when he was hired, and he still ain't!  If we won 4 in a row and made the NCAA tournament I'd still say the same thing.
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Biggus Piggus

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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2005, 09:47:01 pm »

If we won four in a row and made the NCAAT, I sure would not complain.  I'd run down Dickson Street in a thong.
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Re: Heath supporters better quit hanging on experience as an excuse
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2005, 10:02:30 pm »

If we won four in a row and made the NCAAT, I sure would not complain. I'd run down Dickson Street in a thong.

Good Frank... Please stop threatening that unless you're female, under 40, Hot, and your waist measurement is 26 or less! And if that is the case...

By all means... GO HOGS!
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