Hogville

RB Sports Discussion => Monday Morning Quarterback => Topic started by: twistitup on February 09, 2018, 08:47:19 am

Title: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 09, 2018, 08:47:19 am
I heard this side of the argument on the radio yesterday and it makes a lot of sense. We have recruited in the top 25 (average) the last 5 years - we have a roster full of these guys at the moment - we have a chance to be good if we can develop these players.

I read another thread where it said 2 star guys make it to the NFL and ALL SEC at a higher rate than 3 star guys...following this logic, if Coach Morris can develop the talent that is CURRENTLY on the roster that we have a chance to be competitive quicker than some believe. We HAVE had solid recruiting over the last 5 years - why would there NOT be talent on the roster? Did we miss on recruits that much under CBB?

It's all about player development in my opinion. We will see how good this staff is at player development.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: steveaustin69 on February 09, 2018, 08:49:12 am
Top 25 doesn't mean a whole lot when you're 8-11th in your conference most years.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: hogsanity on February 09, 2018, 08:52:53 am
I heard this side of the argument on the radio yesterday and it makes a lot of sense. We have recruited in the top 25 (average) the last 5 years - we have a roster full of these guys at the moment - we have a chance to be good if we can develop these players.

I read another thread where it said 2 star guys make it to the NFL and ALL SEC at a higher rate than 3 star guys...following this logic, if Coach Morris can develop the talent that is CURRENTLY on the roster that we have a chance to be competitive quicker than some believe. We HAVE had solid recruiting over the last 5 years - why would there NOT be talent on the roster? Did we miss on recruits that much under CBB?

It's all about player development in my opinion. We will see how good this staff is at player development.

The issue is, and since there is really no other way to quantify it we have to use stars, well over half the sec recruits better than do the Hogs. This year, 27th in the nation was either 9th or 10th in the sec. When your opponents CONSISTENTLY get better players, they are going to beat you more often than not.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: OneTuskOverTheLine™ on February 09, 2018, 09:45:58 am
Top 25 doesn't mean a whole lot when you're 8-11th in your conference most years.
Most of it (recruiting publications etc...) only serve as psychological cocaine for those who can't shut it off during the off season (you and me)... The other side of the coin is political. I can't prove it, but I'm certainly convinced that the money involved in the publication of this crap, and the writers personal college allegiances, cause the providers of said slop to cater to the needs of coaches and artificially inflate already subjective ratings that are purely conjecture other than measurables.
 I also think recruiting rankings are used by coaches to help influence a kid on where to go, and thusly creates a relationship between publishers and coaches. These relationships then lead to more murking of the waters in an already subjective art that is pawned off as science.  It's all bull darn; Stars, rankings and everything else. The recruiting rankings are just like the top 25 polls. You see an educated guess on next years performance based off of recent history and psychic trickeration. Every year someone over-performs and someone else under performs.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is this, if CCM earns enough respect points by winning, the building of our program will be rapid. HDN I believe was a victim of his own goofiness. CCM may very well be the Anti Nutt.

 Warning: Do not even try to convince me of the recruiting rankings B.S. I am the original "Stars don't matter guy", and have never lost this argument.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: hawgon on February 09, 2018, 09:48:24 am
There is not a lot of difference between the 10th ranked class and the 25th ranked class in the country in most years.  And that is where coaching definitely comes into play.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: hogsanity on February 09, 2018, 09:55:33 am
Most of it (recruiting publications etc...) only serve as psychological cocaine for those who can't shut it off during the off season (you and me)... The other side of the coin is political. I can't prove it, but I'm certainly convinced that the money involved in the publication of this crap, and the writers personal college allegiances, cause the providers of said slop to cater to the needs of coaches and artificially inflate already subjective ratings that are purely conjecture other than measurables.
 I also think recruiting rankings are used by coaches to help influence a kid on where to go, and thusly creates a relationship between publishers and coaches. These relationships then lead to more murking of the waters in an already subjective art that is pawned off as science.  It's all bull darn; Stars, rankings and everything else. The recruiting rankings are just like the top 25 polls. You see an educated guess on next years performance based off of recent history and psychic trickeration. Every year someone over-performs and someone else under performs.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is this, if CCM earns enough respect points by winning, the building of our program will be rapid. HDN I believe was a victim of his own goofiness. CCM may very well be the Anti Nutt.

 Warning: Do not even try to convince me of the recruiting rankings B.S. I am the original "Stars don't matter guy", and have never lost this argument.

Yea cause the teams playing for titles in the p5 leagues or in the college fb playoffs are usually teams that do not rank highly in recruiting.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: factchecker on February 09, 2018, 10:22:16 am
Quote
We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys

Actually we don't.

The bulk of our roster are 3 stars but we have less 2 star (scholarship players) than 4 stars.

Our roster last season was ranked #22 despite never playing anywhere near that level.

https://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite

Here is the roster breakdown from last season:

https://247sports.com/Team/Arkansas-166/Roster

You can sort by rating and then count which players graduated or left to see how much talent we currently have on our roster.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: factchecker on February 09, 2018, 10:26:46 am
From what I could see these are the 4 stars or higher (one 5 star) that are on our roster:

McTelvin Agim (5 star)
Brian Wallace
Devwah Whaley
Chevin Calloway
Hjalte Froholdt
Montaric Brown
Cheyenne O'Grady
Will Gragg
Jamario Bell
Austin Capps
T.J. Hammonds
Jalen Merrick
Ty Storey
Brandon Martin
Jeremy Patton
Briston Guidry
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: hogsanity on February 09, 2018, 10:30:40 am
From what I could see these are the 4 stars or higher (one 5 star) that are on our roster:

McTelvin Agim (5 star)
Brian Wallace
Devwah Whaley
Chevin Calloway
Hjalte Froholdt
Montaric Brown
Cheyenne O'Grady
Will Gragg
Jamario Bell
Austin Capps
T.J. Hammonds
Jalen Merrick
Ty Storey
Brandon Martin
Jeremy Patton
Briston Guidry

16 out of 85 ( assuming they have the max on scholarship )

Of those 3 are TE'S, 3 or 4 are OL. 1 will be a rs jr QB that has taken a handful of snaps the last 2 years.

The poster remains correct, it is a roster made up of  2 and 3 star players. 
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: factchecker on February 09, 2018, 10:31:31 am
Here are the 3 stars:

Chase Hayden
Daulton Hyatt
Koilan Jackson
Jordan Jones
Austin Cantrell
Colton Jackson
La'Michael Pettway
Kamren Curl
Nate Dalton
Dalton Wagner
Maleek Barkley
Jonathan Marshall
Kofi Boateng
Jarrod Barnes
Alexy Jean-Baptiste
De'Jon Harris
Deon Stewart
Armon Watts
Kirby Adcock
Kyrei Fisher
Dre Greenlaw
Shane Clenin
Maleek Williams
Giovanni LaFrance
Jarques McClellion
Deon Edwards
Cole Kelley
Santos Ramirez
De'Vion Warren
Michael Taylor II
Derrick Munson
David Porter
Jared Cornelius
Jack Kraus
Jordon Curtis
Kendrick Jackson
Hayden Johnson
Jake Hall
Korey Hernandez
Britto Tutt
Josh Liddell
Deion Malone
Josh Paul
Ryan Pulley
Grayson Gunter
De'Shawn Gulledge (walk-on)
Dee Walker
Jonathan Nance
Dylan Hays
Randy Ramsey
Carson Proctor (walk-on)
Tyler Phillips (walk-on)
Blake Johnson
Micahh Smith
Byron Keaton (walk-on)
Grant Morgan (walk-on)
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: factchecker on February 09, 2018, 10:31:57 am
16 out of 85 ( assuming they have the max on scholarship )

Of those 3 are TE'S, 3 or 4 are OL. 1 will be a rs jr QB that has taken a handful of snaps the last 2 years.

The poster remains correct, it is a roster made up of  2 and 3 star players.

List the 2 stars then.

How many of them are there compared to our 4 stars?
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: redeye on February 09, 2018, 10:35:43 am
I think we have more 4 star players than 2 star.  We have good talent, but just not talent on the level of top SEC teams.  Our classes under Bielema probably averaged higher than Wisconsin's, but Wisconsin plays in the Big Ten and has remained a top-10 team since Bielema left them.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on February 09, 2018, 10:38:10 am
CM will improve our W/L record for no other reason than BB was an inept dinasaur.  However, even CM knows he has to measurably improve the talent here to truly complete at a hight level in the SEC with any consistently.

Talent is the life blood of any program.  Coaching is critical too, of course, but talent is priority #1.  Talent is king. 

Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: RyanMallettsEgo on February 09, 2018, 10:38:29 am
16 out of 85 ( assuming they have the max on scholarship )

Of those 3 are TE'S, 3 or 4 are OL. 1 will be a rs jr QB that has taken a handful of snaps the last 2 years.

The poster remains correct, it is a roster made up of  2 and 3 star players.

Out of 129 FBS teams, what percentage of them have predominantly 4* and 5* rosters? Maybe 10%, which is 13 teams? Are we really a top 13 program right now?

So what's your suggestion to start landing these 4* and 5* recruits?

Win more, right? But you're one of these guys who seems so hell-bent that teams who aren't top of the recruiting rankings can't win more. So what do we do?
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: factchecker on February 09, 2018, 10:41:44 am
I also forgot to add the current incoming players who signed on Wednesday:

4 star additions (according to 247):

Bumper Pool
Connor Noland

3 star additions (according to 247):

Michael Woods
Isaiah Nichols
Myles Mason
Billy Ferrell
Ladarrius Bishop
Joseph Foucha
Courtre Alexander
Nick Fulwider
Noah Gatlin
Rakeem Boyd
Ryan Winkel
Andrew Parker
John Stephen Jones
Silas Robinson
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: hogsanity on February 09, 2018, 10:44:06 am

Talent is the life blood of any program.  Coaching is critical too, of course, but talent is priority #1.  Talent is king. 


Someone gets it

Out of 129 FBS teams, what percentage of them have predominantly 4* and 5* rosters? Maybe 10%, which is 13 teams? Are we really a top 13 program right now?

So what's your suggestion to start landing these 4* and 5* recruits?

Win more, right? But you're one of these guys who seems so hell-bent that teams who aren't top of the recruiting rankings can't win more. So what do we do?


Actually win more is not it. Personally, I do not think they will get more of them, unless they are playing Hs ball in state.

The problem is, many teams in the SEC are those that do have a lot more 4 and 5 star players. Talent relative to peers is a big deal.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 09, 2018, 10:44:29 am
Loaded w 2/3 star talent
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: RyanMallettsEgo on February 09, 2018, 10:44:43 am
Someone gets it

Actually win more is not it. Personally, I do not think they will get more of them, unless they are playing Hs ball in state.

The problem is, many teams in the SEC are those that do have a lot more 4 and 5 star players. Talent relative to peers is a big deal.

So I'll ask again --- what do we do?
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: redeye on February 09, 2018, 10:46:13 am
I also forgot to add the current incoming players who signed on Wednesday:

4 star additions (according to 247):

Bumper Pool
Connor Noland

3 star additions (according to 247):

Michael Woods
Isaiah Nichols
Myles Mason
Billy Ferrell
Ladarrius Bishop
Joseph Foucha
Courtre Alexander
Nick Fulwider
Noah Gatlin
Rakeem Boyd
Ryan Winkel
Andrew Parker
John Stephen Jones
Silas Robinson

You also missed Heinrich.

Many others were rated 4 stars by one service or another.  I'm surprised Zach Rogers isn't a 4 star there, because I thought he was a 4 star on nearly every service.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on February 09, 2018, 10:47:26 am
16 out of 85 ( assuming they have the max on scholarship )

Of those 3 are TE'S, 3 or 4 are OL. 1 will be a rs jr QB that has taken a handful of snaps the last 2 years.

The poster remains correct, it is a roster made up of  2 and 3 star players. 

You're going to an extreme to make your point here.  We are a program made up of 3 stars, with a few 4 and 2 stars sprinkled in...probably more 4's than 2's. 

Now, if most of our 3 stars were Trey Flower's level players, then sure, we'd be competing for SECC's...as you already understand.  But they aren't, just like every other program full of 3 stars like ours aren't either.  And most of those don't have an SEC schedule.  You know well that math and statistics get in the way of the "3 star programs can be coached up to champhionship level" mantra.  Sure, maybe once every 5 years or so, but not with any consistency.  As you know.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: factchecker on February 09, 2018, 10:48:13 am
You also missed Heinrich.

Many others were rated 4 stars by one service or another.  I'm surprised Zach Rogers isn't a 4 star there, because I thought he was a 4 star on nearly every service.

They are both gone.

Heinrich retired due to back problems and Rogers retired to pursue his career.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: redneckfriend on February 09, 2018, 10:49:10 am
Out of 129 FBS teams, what percentage of them have predominantly 4* and 5* rosters? Maybe 10%, which is 13 teams? Are we really a top 13 program right now?

So what's your suggestion to start landing these 4* and 5* recruits?

Win more, right? But you're one of these guys who seems so hell-bent that teams who aren't top of the recruiting rankings can't win more. So what do we do?

You can definitely compete, and win, with lower ranked players (meaning fewer 4 and 5 *s), properly coached, but the question is where can you compete. I'm not convinced you can do that in the SEC west where the talent differential is so overwhelming. When you are getting beat by 20-30 points by three or four teams every year at some point despair sets in and the team underperforms in games where they should be competitive. Players need to play with attitude and confidence and believe they can beat anyone, without that edge Alabama linebackers will just destroy you and it becomes a vicious circle.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: hogsanity on February 09, 2018, 10:51:36 am
So I'll ask again --- what do we do?

What most fans do, or should do, enjoy the games for the sake of the games. I enjoy each game right up to the point where they lose. I do not sit around worrying about what people will think of me based on whether the Hogs win or lose. I see people here posts all the time though about how they dread going to work on Monday after the Hogs lose because of what they will have to hear from a co worker who is a fan of another team. Or how it ruined their whole weekend when the Hogs lost.

As far as what the coaches can do, just keep offering better players, keep trying to sell them on what they can do here, and try to get as many better players as they can.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Grizzlyfan on February 09, 2018, 10:53:17 am
So I'll ask again --- what do we do?
You've got to be almost flawless in your evaluation of these 3 star guys.  Be sure that they are going to be around your program for 4 or 5 years and develop like crazy along the way. 
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: RyanMallettsEgo on February 09, 2018, 10:53:52 am
What most fans do, or should do, enjoy the games for the sake of the games. I enjoy each game right up to the point where they lose. I do not sit around worrying about what people will think of me based on whether the Hogs win or lose. I see people here posts all the time though about how they dread going to work on Monday after the Hogs lose because of what they will have to hear from a co worker who is a fan of another team. Or how it ruined their whole weekend when the Hogs lost.

As far as what the coaches can do, just keep offering better players, keep trying to sell them on what they can do here, and try to get as many better players as they can.

Agree with everything you said here, honestly. Could've written that post myself.

Just see you being pretty antagonistic about recruiting quite often, so I had to chirp at you a little  ;) No harm no foul.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: factchecker on February 09, 2018, 10:54:54 am
The poster remains correct, it is a roster made up of  2 and 3 star players.

List the 2 stars then.

How many of them are there compared to our 4 stars?

Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: factchecker on February 09, 2018, 10:55:16 am
Here.... I'll help you out:

These are the 2 stars on our team:

Hayden Henry (blueshirt - scholarship)
Blake Kern (walk-on)
Tyler Hall (walk-on)
Gabe Richardson (scholarship)
Audry Horn (walk-on)
Ty Clary (blueshirt - scholarship)
Tobias Enlow (walk-on)
Tyson Morris (walk-on)

The majority are walk-ons.

We only have two or three players who are unrated that are on scholarship:

T.J. Smith
Johnny Gibson
Connor Limpert (I think he is on scholarship - might not be)

ADD:  It's hard to believe that Gibson was unrated while Raulerson was a 4 star.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on February 09, 2018, 10:56:20 am
You can definitely compete, and win, with lower ranked players (meaning fewer 4 and 5 *s), properly coached, but the question is where can you compete. I'm not convinced you can do that in the SEC west where the talent differential is so overwhelming. When you are getting beat by 20-30 points by three or four teams every year at some point despair sets in and the team underperforms in games where they should be competitive. Players need to play with attitude and confidence and believe they can beat anyone, without that edge Alabama linebackers will just destroy you and it becomes a vicious circle.

Agree.

You've got to be almost flawless in your evaluation of these 3 star guys.  Be sure that they are going to be around your program for 4 or 5 years and develop like crazy along the way. 

Yep, and it seems no team has come close to accomplishing this.  Maybe Wisconsin recently.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on February 09, 2018, 10:56:38 am
What most fans do, or should do, enjoy the games for the sake of the games. I enjoy each game right up to the point where they lose. I do not sit around worrying about what people will think of me based on whether the Hogs win or lose. I see people here posts all the time though about how they dread going to work on Monday after the Hogs lose because of what they will have to hear from a co worker who is a fan of another team. Or how it ruined their whole weekend when the Hogs lost.

As far as what the coaches can do, just keep offering better players, keep trying to sell them on what they can do here, and try to get as many better players as they can.

Yep
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: NaturalStateReb on February 09, 2018, 11:05:57 am
I heard this side of the argument on the radio yesterday and it makes a lot of sense. We have recruited in the top 25 (average) the last 5 years - we have a roster full of these guys at the moment - we have a chance to be good if we can develop these players.

I read another thread where it said 2 star guys make it to the NFL and ALL SEC at a higher rate than 3 star guys...following this logic, if Coach Morris can develop the talent that is CURRENTLY on the roster that we have a chance to be competitive quicker than some believe. We HAVE had solid recruiting over the last 5 years - why would there NOT be talent on the roster? Did we miss on recruits that much under CBB?

It's all about player development in my opinion. We will see how good this staff is at player development.

Here's the problem with the "coach 'em up" theory.  In this example, Arkansas is coaching up 2 and 3 star players.  If everyone else has 3, 4, or 5 star players, they're starting out ahead of where you're starting out talent-wise.

Also, it assumes that you're out coaching them up while everyone else is standing still.  Everyone else is also out there coaching them up.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: hogsanity on February 09, 2018, 11:06:06 am
Thought I read somewhere that something like 80% of fbs recruits in football are 3star, so having a roster full of them is not out of the ordinary. The issue is and will continue to be that many in the SEC have a larger # of the 4 and 5 stars, and have them on defense. So when the Hogs 3 & 4 star offensive talent goes up against their 4 and 5 star defense, guess who wins more often than not.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: factchecker on February 09, 2018, 11:07:30 am
Here's the problem with the "coach 'em up" theory.  In this example, Arkansas is coaching up 2 and 3 star players.  If everyone else has 3, 4, or 5 star players, their starting out ahead of where you're starting out talent-wise.

Also, it assumes that you're out coaching them up while everyone else is standing still.  Everyone else is also out there coaching them up.

All I know is that with one of the worst coaches in Razorback history at the helm - and despite Ole Miss paying players - Arkansas has beaten a much more talented (by star ratings) rebel team 4 years in a row.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: NaturalStateReb on February 09, 2018, 11:08:39 am
Thought I read somewhere that something like 80% of fbs recruits in football are 3star, so having a roster full of them is not out of the ordinary. The issue is and will continue to be that many in the SEC have a larger # of the 4 and 5 stars, and have them on defense. So when the Hogs 3 & 4 star offensive talent goes up against their 4 and 5 star defense, guess who wins more often than not.

It's an excellent point.  The number of 4 and 5 stars are usually limited by the recruiting guys--it gives the illusion of scarcity.  You can't have competition--the thing that drives fan interest in recruiting--without scarcity.  This isn't a scientific process by any stretch.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: factchecker on February 09, 2018, 11:08:51 am
Thought I read somewhere that something like 80% of fbs recruits in football are 3star, so having a roster full of them is not out of the ordinary. The issue is and will continue to be that many in the SEC have a larger # of the 4 and 5 stars, and have them on defense. So when the Hogs 3 & 4 star offensive talent goes up against their 4 and 5 star defense, guess who wins more often than not.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that statement.  The problem I had was when people claim that we are "full of 2 and 3 star" guys when we have more 4 stars than 2 stars.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: DeltaBoy on February 09, 2018, 11:10:35 am
I heard this side of the argument on the radio yesterday and it makes a lot of sense. We have recruited in the top 25 (average) the last 5 years - we have a roster full of these guys at the moment - we have a chance to be good if we can develop these players.

I read another thread where it said 2 star guys make it to the NFL and ALL SEC at a higher rate than 3 star guys...following this logic, if Coach Morris can develop the talent that is CURRENTLY on the roster that we have a chance to be competitive quicker than some believe. We HAVE had solid recruiting over the last 5 years - why would there NOT be talent on the roster? Did we miss on recruits that much under CBB?

It's all about player development in my opinion. We will see how good this staff is at player development.

Agree cause on our former staff they got worse not better.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: NaturalStateReb on February 09, 2018, 11:11:46 am
All I know is that with one of the worst coaches in Razorback history at the helm - and despite Ole Miss paying players - Arkansas has beaten a much more talented (by star ratings) rebel team 4 years in a row.

All I know is that with one of the best coaches in Razorback history at the helm--Alabama still fed Arkansas into a woodchipper as part of its 10 game series streak.  Why?  Because better players.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: hogsanity on February 09, 2018, 11:13:22 am
I don't think anyone disagrees with that statement.  The problem I had was when people claim that we are "full of 2 and 3 star" guys when we have more 4 stars than 2 stars.

Yes, but saying the roster is " full of 2 star and 3 star guys " is not inaccurate. The vast majority of it is 2 and 3 star players.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: RyanMallettsEgo on February 09, 2018, 11:13:38 am
All I know is that with one of the best coaches in Razorback history at the helm--Alabama still fed Arkansas into a woodchipper as part of its 10 game series streak.  Why?  Because better players.

Right. Because the guys coaching at Alabama have nothing to do with it. Not like those recruits play for the greatest college football coach ever or anything. The players just develop themselves and coach themselves.

Way to deflect factchecker's point and bring out Alabama.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: factchecker on February 09, 2018, 11:14:26 am
All I know is that with one of the best coaches in Razorback history at the helm--Alabama still fed Arkansas into a woodchipper as part of its 10 game series streak.  Why?  Because better players.

I'm sure Hugh bought your team rings for beating Bama but we aren't the only team in the nation that is on a losing streak to the tide.

When is the last SEC championship game your team went to reb?

You'd think with all that talent that Ole Miss bought that you would have least won the west.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: factchecker on February 09, 2018, 11:15:52 am
Yes, but saying the roster is " full of 2 star and 3 star guys " is not inaccurate. The vast majority of it is 2 and 3 star players.

By that logic saying the roster is full of 3 and 4 star guys is not inaccurate either..... seeing that there are more 4 stars than 2 stars.

Why not just say the truth:  The bulk of our roster are 3 stars.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: hogsanity on February 09, 2018, 11:17:45 am
By that logic saying the roster is full of 3 and 4 star guys is not inaccurate either..... seeing that there are more 4 stars than 2 stars.

Why not just say the truth:  The bulk of our roster are 3 stars.

Ok, fine. However you say it does not change the fact that they still get the 10th or so rated group of players every year in the sec.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: factchecker on February 09, 2018, 11:19:08 am
(http://i.imgur.com/SFdosMw.gif)
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: RyanMallettsEgo on February 09, 2018, 11:20:41 am
(http://i.imgur.com/SFdosMw.gif)

When you find out a Bible wasn't the only thing ol' Hugh was thumpin'.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: code red on February 09, 2018, 11:22:07 am
Folks.  We are going to go through growing pains.  Plain and simple.  We won't be 4-8.  But we will be in the bottom half of the West.  The defense will have to learn a new scheme.  The defense will have to play A LOT of minutes.  I hope I am wrong but 7-5 tops.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: elksnort on February 09, 2018, 11:35:01 am
It's interesting. I think that most of the NFL were 3 stars coming out of HS.

Of course, this could be just because most playing D-1 were 3 stars.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Porknoxville on February 09, 2018, 11:41:07 am
Folks.  We are going to go through growing pains.  Plain and simple.  We won't be 4-8.  But we will be in the bottom half of the West.  The defense will have to learn a new scheme.  The defense will have to play A LOT of minutes.  I hope I am wrong but 7-5 tops.
I'm just happy we are going back to a defense the kids are more familiar with. Also getting rid of the worst OL coach ever.
We win win 7 games just on that!
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 09, 2018, 11:42:05 am
Folks.  We are going to go through growing pains.  Plain and simple.  We won't be 4-8.  But we will be in the bottom half of the West.  The defense will have to learn a new scheme.  The defense will have to play A LOT of minutes.  I hope I am wrong but 7-5 tops.

Learn a new scheme? Defense? Hell, we are going back to what we have run for years....true? In complete desperation mode, we change D  (and O) under CBB to have 4LB now we are going back to 3LB

That shouldn't take much adjustment....

We have athletes....but some of coaches were too busy eating and drinking to develop our athletes....just a guess by the massive weight gain. But damn...there is no way we recruited in the top 25 (avg) over the past 5 years and don't have good athletes on the roster.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Pig in the Pokey on February 09, 2018, 11:42:06 am
I heard this side of the argument on the radio yesterday and it makes a lot of sense. We have recruited in the top 25 (average) the last 5 years - we have a roster full of these guys at the moment - we have a chance to be good if we can develop these players.

I read another thread where it said 2 star guys make it to the NFL and ALL SEC at a higher rate than 3 star guys...following this logic, if Coach Morris can develop the talent that is CURRENTLY on the roster that we have a chance to be competitive quicker than some believe. We HAVE had solid recruiting over the last 5 years - why would there NOT be talent on the roster? Did we miss on recruits that much under CBB?

It's all about player development in my opinion. We will see how good this staff is at player development.
dumbest post ive ever seen. NAME the 2* guys. Go ahead, Im waiting.

IN ACTUALITY, we have the #21 most talented roster per 247sports.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Pig in the Pokey on February 09, 2018, 11:43:11 am
Yes, but saying the roster is " full of 2 star and 3 star guys " is not inaccurate. The vast majority of it is 2 and 3 star players.
no, it isnt. the majority of it is Three and FOUR stars.

Do you people even follow recruiting?
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 09, 2018, 11:46:09 am
dumbest post ive ever seen. NAME the 2* guys. Go ahead, Im waiting.

IN ACTUALITY, we have the #21 most talented roster per 247sports.

My point is we are not loaded w 4-5 star guys - but we have tons of talent. It's a fact, we have mostly 2-3 star guys on the team - YOU look it up, I'm presenting it as fact, because it is. I agree we SHOULD be ranked #21 (or somewhere around that) - it fair because we have recruited in the top 25-30 for 5 years.

We have tons of undeveloped talent on the Current roster. Yes, plenty of 4 star guys (I think 16) - but lots of good athletes just under that - I think CCM will do a good job of developing the talent we have and we will have a surprising season next year.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: LA Football fan on February 09, 2018, 11:46:52 am
Folks.  We are going to go through growing pains.  Plain and simple.  We won't be 4-8.  But we will be in the bottom half of the West.  The defense will have to learn a new scheme.  The defense will have to play A LOT of minutes.  I hope I am wrong but 7-5 tops.

I actually think we  will do better than most think.  Today's game is engineered to give the offense every advantage available.  Pretty much legalized holding everywhere, can't target receivers, can't target qbs, etc.  We are  finally going to run the type offense that takes the  most advantage of the current rules of the game.   Ole Miss beat Bama because of a wide open offense and having a defense good enough to hold  them off.  You have  to play teams that have more talent on the field in space giving your guys a chance to use scheme to offset that talent advantage.

4.4 is the same whether you are rated 5 star or 2 star.  Where Bama beats up on people is  having the edge on the defensive line and linebackers.   CBB was never going to overcome that advantage with his system.  CCM may not either but  at least his offense puts his skill  players out in space and can level the playing  field so to speak by putting his 4.4 WR's one on one with Bama's 4.4 dbs.   That scenario is much more favorable to us than trying to run headlong into superior talent all day.  This principle holds true against LSU, Auburn, Georgia, etc.  You also spread out Bama's or any other SEC teams defense to try and create better running lanes for your oline to create or take advantage of. 

The key is going to be how well our  defense can slow down or stop other  SEC offenses and give ours a  chance to outscore them.  As others have pointed out, we are normally going to be playing  against higher rated players and that isn't changing any time soon.   Petrino proved that we COULD outperform the recruiting rankings if we can take advantage of a high powered offensive system and have a defense good enough to be serviceable.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 09, 2018, 11:48:30 am
no, it isnt. the majority of it is Three and FOUR stars.

Do you people even follow recruiting?

post the f'ink roster big guy - do some research.

We have 16 4* and 1 -2 5*

The rest HAVE to be 2-3*
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: LA Football fan on February 09, 2018, 12:03:30 pm
post the f'ink roster big guy - do some research.

We have 16 4* and 1 -2 5*

The rest HAVE to be 2-3*

Did you even THINK about what he is saying.  If you have more 4 stars on the roster vs 2 stars then it is logical MATHEMATICALLY that your 3 and 4 stars will be higher in number than your 3 and 2 stars, thus your team being comprised with more 3 and 4 stars than 2 and 3 stars.  Really not that complicated.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: bigpigpimpin on February 09, 2018, 12:04:06 pm
Top 25 doesn't mean a whole lot when you're 8-11th in your conference most years.
BINGO was his name
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: bigpigpimpin on February 09, 2018, 12:05:17 pm
and this year we are 14th....dead last
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 09, 2018, 12:06:06 pm
BINGO was his name

Lack of development...
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: RyanMallettsEgo on February 09, 2018, 12:17:00 pm
dumbest post ive ever seen. NAME the 2* guys. Go ahead, Im waiting.

IN ACTUALITY, we have the #21 most talented roster per 247sports.

Name the 2* recruits that went to Arkansas that made it to the NFL?

Easy.

According to 247Sports, the following guys were 2*: Nate Garner, Jamaal Anderson, Johnathan Luigs, Ray Dominguez, Zach Hocker, Javontee Herndon, Drew Morgan. Those are just the ones I found in one quick look-thru. I'm sure there are more.

Still waiting?
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: OneTuskOverTheLine™ on February 09, 2018, 12:21:16 pm
post the f'ink roster big guy - do some research.

We have 16 4* and 1 -2 5*

The rest HAVE to be 2-3*
I'm with Pokey on this one. I can't remember the last 2* we signed. I don't believe there are any on campus, but also I don't care because the stars don't mean nuh'n.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: OneTuskOverTheLine™ on February 09, 2018, 12:22:14 pm
Name the 2* recruits that went to Arkansas that made it to the NFL?

Easy.

According to 247Sports, the following guys were 2*: Nate Garner, Jamaal Anderson, Johnathan Luigs, Ray Dominguez, Zach Hocker, Javontee Herndon, Drew Morgan. Those are just the ones I found in one quick look-thru. I'm sure there are more.

Still waiting?
I'm kinda waiting for y'all to point out someone that's on campus...
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 09, 2018, 12:22:49 pm
Did you even THINK about what he is saying.  If you have more 4 stars on the roster vs 2 stars then it is logical MATHEMATICALLY that your 3 and 4 stars will be higher in number than your 3 and 2 stars, thus your team being comprised with more 3 and 4 stars than 2 and 3 stars.  Really not that complicated.

We haven't seen the roster yet...none of what you type can be proven. Post the roster.

Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: hogsanity on February 09, 2018, 12:22:53 pm
Here, I will make it easy, the Hogs do not have as much talent as Bama, Aub, Lsu or A&M in the secw and not as much as GA, Fl and maybe TN from the sece.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: OneTuskOverTheLine™ on February 09, 2018, 12:23:35 pm
Yea cause the teams playing for titles in the p5 leagues or in the college fb playoffs are usually teams that do not rank highly in recruiting.
Chicken vs egg dude...
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: RyanMallettsEgo on February 09, 2018, 12:28:25 pm
I'm kinda waiting for y'all to point out someone that's on campus...

You want me to point out a 2* that's on campus now and has also made it to the NFL? Because that was the gist of my reply to Pokey.

If this is veiled sarcasm, sorry I missed it.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: OneTuskOverTheLine™ on February 09, 2018, 12:29:50 pm
Here.... I'll help you out:

These are the 2 stars on our team:

Hayden Henry (blueshirt - scholarship)
Blake Kern (walk-on)
Tyler Hall (walk-on)
Gabe Richardson (scholarship)
Audry Horn (walk-on)
Ty Clary (blueshirt - scholarship)
Tobias Enlow (walk-on)
Tyson Morris (walk-on)

The majority are walk-ons.

We only have two or three players who are unrated that are on scholarship:

T.J. Smith
Johnny Gibson
Connor Limpert (I think he is on scholarship - might not be)

ADD:  It's hard to believe that Gibson was unrated while Raulerson was a 4 star.

 I didn't see this on page 1... So other than walk-on's we have 3... Yeah and those are questionable rankings, even among rankings that of themselves questionable...

 AGAIN. Star's don't mean darn EXCEPT as a topic of conversation.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 09, 2018, 12:51:37 pm
I didn't see this on page 1... So other than walk-on's we have 3... Yeah and those are questionable rankings, even among rankings that of themselves questionable...

 AGAIN. Star's don't mean darn EXCEPT as a topic of conversation.

NCAA allows 105 players to be on the roster.

We have 1 5*  player (listed previously)
            16- 4* players (listed previously)
 approx 25- 3* players (listed previously)

FACTCHECKER Says we have - 11 2* or lower on the roster....something is wrong with the math here fellas

The roster can have 105 players ...that's 53 so far

85 players players on the roster can receive some type of athletically based aid...we haven't even hit that number.


           
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: factchecker on February 09, 2018, 01:16:00 pm
NCAA allows 105 players to be on the roster.

We have 1 5*  player (listed previously)
            16- 4* players (listed previously)
 approx 25- 3* players (listed previously)

FACTCHECKER Says we have - 11 2* or lower on the roster....something is wrong with the math here fellas

The roster can have 105 players ...that's 53 so far

85 players players on the roster can receive some type of athletically based aid...we haven't even hit that number.

Your math is god awful.

Here is the roster breakdown of players on scholarship

5 star:
1. McTelvin Agim (5 star)

4 stars:

2. Brian Wallace
3. Devwah Whaley
4. Chevin Calloway
5. Hjalte Froholdt
6. Montaric Brown
7. Cheyenne O'Grady
8. Will Gragg
9. Jamario Bell
10. Austin Capps
11. T.J. Hammonds
12. Jalen Merrick
13. Ty Storey
14. Brandon Martin
15. Jeremy Patton
16. Briston Guidry

3 stars

17. Chase Hayden
18. Daulton Hyatt
19. Koilan Jackson
20. Jordan Jones
21. Austin Cantrell
22. Colton Jackson
23. La'Michael Pettway
24. Kamren Curl
25. Nate Dalton
26. Dalton Wagner
27. Maleek Barkley
28. Jonathan Marshall
29. Kofi Boateng
30. Jarrod Barnes
31. Alexy Jean-Baptiste
32. De'Jon Harris
33. Deon Stewart
34. Armon Watts
35. Kirby Adcock
36. Kyrei Fisher
37. Dre Greenlaw
38. Shane Clenin
39. Maleek Williams
40. Giovanni LaFrance
41. Jarques McClellion
42. Deon Edwards
43. Cole Kelley
44. Santos Ramirez
45. De'Vion Warren
46. Michael Taylor II
47. Derrick Munson
48. David Porter
49. Jared Cornelius
50. Jack Kraus
51. Jordon Curtis
52. Kendrick Jackson
53. Hayden Johnson
54. Jake Hall
55. Korey Hernandez
56. Britto Tutt
57. Josh Liddell
58. Deion Malone
59. Josh Paul
60. Ryan Pulley
61. Grayson Gunter
62. Dee Walker
63. Jonathan Nance
64. Dylan Hays
65. Randy Ramsey
66. Blake Johnson
67. Micahh Smith

2 star or unrated

68. Hayden Henry
69. Gabe Richardson
70. Ty Clary
71. T.J. Smith
72. Johnny Gibson
73. Connor Limpert (I think he is on scholarship - might not be)

PLUS the recruits we just signed:

4 star additions (according to 247):

74. Bumper Pool
75. Connor Noland

3 star additions (according to 247):

76. Michael Woods
77. Isaiah Nichols
78. Myles Mason
79. Billy Ferrell
80. Ladarrius Bishop
81. Joseph Foucha
82. Courtre Alexander
83. Nick Fulwider
84. Noah Gatlin
85. Rakeem Boyd
86. Ryan Winkel
87. Andrew Parker
88. John Stephen Jones
89. Silas Robinson

That's 89 scholarship players which puts us over the limit.

Plus all the walk-ons.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 09, 2018, 01:51:33 pm
The walkons ARE part if the 105 man roster...

Looks like our 2* listed plus walkons not listed is more than the 16 4* guys we currently have

Factcheck - on the 2* guys...one post lists 8 the other 6
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: hogsanity on February 09, 2018, 02:26:57 pm
The roster looks like about 90% of all p5 schools, so why does that make some people so defensive. It is not like people are saying the roster is crap, just that it, for a p5 school, is average. The biggest issue, as pointed out, of the teams that are above average many are in the same conference as the Hogs.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: secfan30 on February 09, 2018, 02:40:42 pm
Right. Because the guys coaching at Alabama have nothing to do with it. Not like those recruits play for the greatest college football coach ever or anything. The players just develop themselves and coach themselves.

Way to deflect factchecker's point and bring out Alabama.

The series was tied overall prior to Saban wasn’t it?
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: texas tush hog on February 09, 2018, 02:52:53 pm
Here, I will make it easy, the Hogs do not have as much talent as Bama, Aub, Lsu or A&M in the secw and not as much as GA, Fl and maybe TN from the sece.


Who gives a rats rear. We have to work harder until we start getting better players. The we start beating them consistently.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: UA1985 on February 09, 2018, 04:19:09 pm

The poster remains correct, it is a roster made up of  2 and 3 star players.
Why are you going out of your way to confirm something that is clearly inaccurate? We probably have more 4* scholarship players than 2*; if not, it's close. Using your logic, we are a team of 2-, 3- and 4-star players. But the truth is: we are a team of 3-star players. That's where the vast majority of our scholarship players come from: the 3-star pool.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Nashville Fan on February 09, 2018, 04:26:33 pm
If we asked all of our players to commit to AL first. Then decommit from AL and commit to AR, we would have all 4 stars players.

Historically, if you are 4 star playing for AR you have a higher % chance of getting to the NFL than if you are 4 star playing for AL. It's 'cause of the AL bump so their fans will subscribe to the rating services.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on February 09, 2018, 04:28:23 pm
Chicken vs egg dude...

I understand the concept, but explain how it applies here.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on February 09, 2018, 04:30:52 pm
If we asked all of our players to commit to AL first. Then decommit from AL and commit to AR, we would have all 4 stars players.


Simply not true.  And it's proven not true over and over again simply by our record vs. Bama's record. 
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Nashville Fan on February 09, 2018, 04:38:35 pm
Simply not true.  And it's proven not true over and over again simply by our record vs. Bama's record. 
Their 5 stars create the gap not our high 3* verses their low 4*.


well... that and their coaches.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on February 09, 2018, 04:43:30 pm
Their 5 stars create the gap not our high 3* verses their low 4*.

Except 80% of their roster is made up of 4 stars. 

The problem with the subcription claim, which I know does happen on some level, is that claiming such always implys that Bama's talent is overrated due to higher subcriptions, while our talent is underrated due to lower subscriptions.  It's pretty obvious from watching the games every year that such an implication is patently false.

Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Nashville Fan on February 09, 2018, 04:55:13 pm
Except 80% of their roster is made up of 4 stars. 

The problem with the subcription claim, which I know does happen on some level, is that claiming such always implys that Bama's talent is overrated due to higher subcriptions, while our talent is underrated due to lower subscriptions.  It's pretty obvious from watching the games every year that such an implication is patently false.


Problem with the star rankings is that you do not get to see the different shades of gray in a star. Some were almost 5* and some were almost 3*.  If you overlay some of the other ranking services that give a grade, as opposed to a *, you can see that all 4*s are not made equally. When some of Bama's and theOSU 4* players grade lower than other teams 3*s(LSU for example), it makes you go hmmmm.

The worst is the fighting Irish. Lot of those come from private school with different competition that public schools. 5 stars feel more legit.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 09, 2018, 04:59:58 pm
We have a fair amount of 4 star players

We have a large amount of 3 star players

We have 1 five star player

....the rest of our 105 man roster is 2* and walkons (including preferred walkons)

Now, let's develop some players and go win some games.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on February 09, 2018, 05:08:30 pm
Problem with the star rankings is that you do not get to see the different shades of gray in a star. Some were almost 5* and some were almost 3*.  If you overlay some of the other ranking services that give a grade, as opposed to a *, you can see that all 4*s are not made equally. When some of Bama's and theOSU 4* players grade lower than other teams 3*s(LSU for example), it makes you go hmmmm.

The worst is the fighting Irish. Lot of those come from private school with different competition that public schools. 5 stars feel more legit.

I agree, but I think you're arguing the exception, not the rule.  And I bet it's a fairly small exception too.

I'm just irked at the constant subscription claims.  It's significanly overstated by fans from have-not schools like ours in an effort to excuse our recruiting each year.  It just isn't a legitimate argument on the whole.  And I don't fault UA coaching staffs, because they're at a huge recruiting disadvantage.  Always have been.  It's a legitimate problem.  Just don't be dishonest about it all.  Call a spade a spade.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: wildhogman on February 09, 2018, 05:16:23 pm
Yea cause the teams playing for titles in the p5 leagues or in the college fb playoffs are usually teams that do not rank highly in recruiting.
[/quote
or it could be if I am a "guru" working for one of those "guru" publications, I'll automatically give any bamma recruit 4 stars cause everyone in the free world nd 50% of communist china know Nick  Satan don't make mistakes in recruiting.  Same for THE Ohst. OU, FSU, Clemson, so on and so forth. Hell I can make my weekly quota and weekly pay check just by making a couple humdred phone calls asking 17-18 football players who is recruiting them. I wont have to leave my desk, or watch a single film and can be right 50%.  That's all it takes in some of you guy's eyes.  If the expert said it, it must be true.  And because I am a "guru" working for a "guru" service with website and magazine subscriptions. wellllllllll I just have to know,, ya know,, HAVE ta
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Nashville Fan on February 09, 2018, 05:30:10 pm
I agree, but I think you're arguing the exception, not the rule.  And I bet it's a fairly small exception too.

I'm just irked at the constant subscription claims.  It's significanly overstated by fans from have-not schools like ours in an effort to excuse our recruiting each year.  It just isn't a legitimate argument on the whole.  And I don't fault UA coaching staffs, because they're at a huge recruiting disadvantage.  Always have been.  It's a legitimate problem.  Just don't be dishonest about it all.  Call a spade a spade.
I am an Irish fan too. Feels like they get the same benefit as AL. Seems easier to pick the top 30 players for a class than the top 300. Once you get past 150 there isn't a lot of difference. So the opportunity to assume that AL will not recruit anyone that is not one of the top 300 players in the country is not hard to imagine. Truth is there is no difference between 300th best player and 301th best player. But one gets 4stars and one gets 3stars. And... the team that gets #300 is happy and the one that get #301 complains for no legit reason. Difference between 200-400 is marginal at best and you will get as many different rankings of these players as services for these spots. it happens and it is not overstated.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: redeye on February 09, 2018, 07:18:17 pm
They are both gone.

Heinrich retired due to back problems and Rogers retired to pursue his career.

Oh, that's right.

I'm actually surprised we don't have more 4 stars, but I guess we're losing 4-5 from last season.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Bkhardicars on February 09, 2018, 07:40:04 pm
We do NOT have a roster loaded with 2 Stars...Did Bo start this thread?
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on February 09, 2018, 07:47:54 pm
I am an Irish fan too. Feels like they get the same benefit as AL. Seems easier to pick the top 30 players for a class than the top 300. Once you get past 150 there isn't a lot of difference. So the opportunity to assume that AL will not recruit anyone that is not one of the top 300 players in the country is not hard to imagine. Truth is there is no difference between 300th best player and 301th best player. But one gets 4stars and one gets 3stars. And... the team that gets #300 is happy and the one that get #301 complains for no legit reason. Difference between 200-400 is marginal at best and you will get as many different rankings of these players as services for these spots. it happens and it is not overstated.

But I'm talking about the actual elite players.  The obvious elite players that all the big boys are after.  The obvious elite players that go to the big boy programs in droves.  The ones that are easy and obvious to assign 4 stars.  The ones in the top 150.  Programs like Bama, Clemson, tOSU, etc...get at least a dozen of those every class.  We get maybe 1 or 2 of them, and that's all that matters.  It's a monumental difference. 

Everybody knows it gets fuzzy once you get to say 200-400.  Heck we probably don't even get a bunch that fall in that range either.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 09, 2018, 07:50:07 pm
We do NOT have a roster loaded with 2 Stars...Did Bo start this thread?

Don't knock 2-3 star players...they become All SEC and go the the NFL at a higher clip than any other star....
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: MuskogeeHogFan on February 09, 2018, 07:58:55 pm
I heard this side of the argument on the radio yesterday and it makes a lot of sense. We have recruited in the top 25 (average) the last 5 years - we have a roster full of these guys at the moment - we have a chance to be good if we can develop these players.

I read another thread where it said 2 star guys make it to the NFL and ALL SEC at a higher rate than 3 star guys...following this logic, if Coach Morris can develop the talent that is CURRENTLY on the roster that we have a chance to be competitive quicker than some believe. We HAVE had solid recruiting over the last 5 years - why would there NOT be talent on the roster? Did we miss on recruits that much under CBB?

It's all about player development in my opinion. We will see how good this staff is at player development.

Since the 2013 recruiting class, according to 24/7:

    5          4         3          2       Total
    1         26        99         5        131
  0.8%    19.8%   75.6%    3.8%    100%

Just sayin, more 4 and 3 stars than we ever signed 2 stars. I'd say your show is slanting the truth a bit.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on February 09, 2018, 07:59:56 pm
Don't knock 2-3 star players...they become All SEC and go the the NFL at a higher clip than any other star....

Well, simple math dictates that be so, but on a percentage basis, they don't.  In other words, and just rounding, I believe something like 50% of 5 stars get drafted, 30% of 4 stars get drafted, and maybe 10% to 15% of 3 stars get drafted.  It just so happens at that there's probably 5x more 3 stars each year than 4 stars. 

The key is signing those 3 stars that are NFL talents in significantly higher numbers.  Programs have been unable to do that.  I mean Trey Flowers was a 3 star who actually turned out to be a 4 star, and if we had a roster full of 3 star talents like Flowers, then sure, we'd be competing for championships.  But we don't.  Probably no program on our level does.  But just about every 4 star at Bama is probably as talented as Flowers.

I'd bet that of the 44 players who just started the Super Bowl, 30 of them were 3 stars.  But how many of those 3 stars came from the same college program?  Maybe none, because they're all actually spread out over dozens of programs.  And that's the key.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: lumphog on February 09, 2018, 08:06:47 pm
It's ALL about coaching.... I'm gonna go ahead and say it... WE will have a better year than the Aggies & JimBob Fisherman... BookIt Dano
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: MemphisBossHog on February 09, 2018, 08:49:43 pm
The issue is, and since there is really no other way to quantify it we have to use stars, well over half the sec recruits better than do the Hogs. This year, 27th in the nation was either 9th or 10th in the sec. When your opponents CONSISTENTLY get better players, they are going to beat you more often than not.
this sums it right up perfectly.  When some want to point out that we have ranked in the top 25 over the past years, it is really out of context because usually there are 9-11 SEC teams who do better.  So we can be in top 25 nationally yet be going backwards in the conference.

My hope is that CCM will excite the kids out there on the recruiting trail and they will want to come to Fayetteville cause they want to be a part of something special.  Meanwhile, CCM and his staff gonna have to "coach em up" for awhile.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: hobhog on February 09, 2018, 10:08:14 pm
Today's 3 star commit had offers from all SEC schools....
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Pork Twain on February 09, 2018, 10:42:57 pm
Well thank god this came up again.  It was WAY past due.  Can I request a GSD and uniform post next?
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: From Tusk Till Dawn on February 09, 2018, 11:04:14 pm
This is a pretty interesting read.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-football-recruiting/2018/2/9/16956914/recruits-by-state-map-2018-rankings

It really shows how the rich keep getting richer but alot of it is about resources in state.  For example, Texas got 10 of their top 13, Louisiana got 10 of their top 16, we got 5 of the top 9.  Yet our top 5 don't stack up as well against their top 5.  As long as we continue to lose the SEC recruiting battle our national rank is irrelevant.  We always have good players but often not better.  We will imo have to rely on catching lightning in a bottle with the right combination of great scheme, coaching and players.  I’m hopeful for the new regime as we are due.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 10, 2018, 02:33:38 am
Since the 2013 recruiting class, according to 24/7:

    5          4         3          2       Total
    1         26        99         5        131
  0.8%    19.8%   75.6%    3.8%    100%

Just sayin, more 4 and 3 stars than we ever signed 2 stars. I'd say your show is slanting the truth a bit.

105 man roster...not everybody is signed.

What show?
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Pork Twain on February 10, 2018, 03:30:23 am
Don't knock 2-3 star players...they become All SEC and go the the NFL at a higher clip than any other star....
Well this is just not true.  Statistical analysis, it matters.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Pork Twain on February 10, 2018, 03:34:00 am
The walkons ARE part if the 105 man roster...

Looks like our 2* listed plus walkons not listed is more than the 16 4* guys we currently have

Factcheck - on the 2* guys...one post lists 8 the other 6
Well that is because he is talking about our 85 scholarship players and you are talking about all 105, to include guys that have very little chance of ever seeing the field.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 10, 2018, 05:50:46 am
Well that is because he is talking about our 85 scholarship players and you are talking about all 105, to include guys that have very little chance of ever seeing the field.


Title of thread says says ROSTER - not scholarship recipients

The ROSTER is 105 people

We are a team loaded with 2 and 3 star guys (or below) when looking at the 105 man roster.

Why it took us this long to get here is sad. Why argue with facts?

Don't knock walkons - some are preferred, others turn out to be studs- Brandon Burlsworth ring a bell? Some WERE studs but had late injuries, behavior issues in h.s. etc, etc.. walkons are a very important part of the team.

We have lots of talent that needs to be DEVELOPED, I think CCM is a good developer of talent. I think he will take the kids CBB recruited and win with them.

Go Hogs
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: MuskogeeHogFan on February 10, 2018, 06:20:06 am
105 man roster...not everybody is signed.

What show?

You said that you had heard this on the radio?
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 10, 2018, 06:31:16 am
You said that you had heard this on the radio?

It's not my show....a guy calling into Bo's show was giving success stats on 2/3 star guys. It a GOOD thing to have players to develop on a roster, not bad. The problem is - CBB was not developing these players. I'm of the opinion that Coach Morris will do well with CBB's players.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Bacons Rebellion on February 10, 2018, 06:32:42 am
We haven't seen the roster yet...none of what you type can be proven. Post the roster.



Do you not know how to find the roster yourself? It has pretty much already been posted for you, kindly broken down by * ranking, but you keep demanding it be done again.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 10, 2018, 07:05:23 am
Do you not know how to find the roster yourself? It has pretty much already been posted for you, kindly broken down by * ranking, but you keep demanding it be done again.

Thread is over - all questions answered
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Pig in the Pokey on February 10, 2018, 10:44:49 pm
I'm kinda waiting for y'all to point out someone that's on campus...
me too.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Pig in the Pokey on February 10, 2018, 10:47:01 pm
Your math is god awful.

Here is the roster breakdown of players on scholarship

5 star:
1. McTelvin Agim (5 star)

4 stars:

2. Brian Wallace
3. Devwah Whaley
4. Chevin Calloway
5. Hjalte Froholdt
6. Montaric Brown
7. Cheyenne O'Grady
8. Will Gragg
9. Jamario Bell
10. Austin Capps
11. T.J. Hammonds
12. Jalen Merrick
13. Ty Storey
14. Brandon Martin
15. Jeremy Patton
16. Briston Guidry

3 stars

17. Chase Hayden
18. Daulton Hyatt
19. Koilan Jackson
20. Jordan Jones
21. Austin Cantrell
22. Colton Jackson
23. La'Michael Pettway
24. Kamren Curl
25. Nate Dalton
26. Dalton Wagner
27. Maleek Barkley
28. Jonathan Marshall
29. Kofi Boateng
30. Jarrod Barnes
31. Alexy Jean-Baptiste
32. De'Jon Harris
33. Deon Stewart
34. Armon Watts
35. Kirby Adcock
36. Kyrei Fisher
37. Dre Greenlaw
38. Shane Clenin
39. Maleek Williams
40. Giovanni LaFrance
41. Jarques McClellion
42. Deon Edwards
43. Cole Kelley
44. Santos Ramirez
45. De'Vion Warren
46. Michael Taylor II
47. Derrick Munson
48. David Porter
49. Jared Cornelius
50. Jack Kraus
51. Jordon Curtis
52. Kendrick Jackson
53. Hayden Johnson
54. Jake Hall
55. Korey Hernandez
56. Britto Tutt
57. Josh Liddell
58. Deion Malone
59. Josh Paul
60. Ryan Pulley
61. Grayson Gunter
62. Dee Walker
63. Jonathan Nance
64. Dylan Hays
65. Randy Ramsey
66. Blake Johnson
67. Micahh Smith

2 star or unrated

68. Hayden Henry
69. Gabe Richardson
70. Ty Clary
71. T.J. Smith
72. Johnny Gibson
73. Connor Limpert (I think he is on scholarship - might not be)

PLUS the recruits we just signed:

4 star additions (according to 247):

74. Bumper Pool
75. Connor Noland

3 star additions (according to 247):

76. Michael Woods
77. Isaiah Nichols
78. Myles Mason
79. Billy Ferrell
80. Ladarrius Bishop
81. Joseph Foucha
82. Courtre Alexander
83. Nick Fulwider
84. Noah Gatlin
85. Rakeem Boyd
86. Ryan Winkel
87. Andrew Parker
88. John Stephen Jones
89. Silas Robinson

That's 89 scholarship players which puts us over the limit.

Plus all the walk-ons.
Good work, Factchecker.

So, out of 89 scholly players, a total of six are two stars. EXACTLY my point, thanks.

Also, a WHOLE bunch of those supposed "3*s" on the list are actually 4*s. Like Billy Ferrell, Dorian Gerald, and Miles Mason just in the new class. Dalton Hyatt was a ESPN Top150 guy and he is "just a 3*" on that list. We have over 30 player who are a 4* on at least one of the three major sites. Team is far from "mostly 2 and 3 stars".

Also, nobody counts walk-ons in any way as they are irrelevant, and EVRY teams walkons are just a batch of 2 and 3 star guys. There arent 5* walkons.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 11, 2018, 05:43:27 am
Good work, Factchecker.

So, out of 89 scholly players, a total of six are two stars. EXACTLY my point, thanks.

Also, a WHOLE bunch of those supposed "3*s" on the list are actually 4*s. Like Billy Ferrell, Dorian Gerald, and Miles Mason just in the new class. Dalton Hyatt was a ESPN Top150 guy and he is "just a 3*" on that list. We have over 30 player who are a 4* on at least one of the three major sites. Team is far from "mostly 2 and 3 stars".

Also, nobody counts walk-ons in any way as they are irrelevant, and EVRY teams walkons are just a batch of 2 and 3 star guys. There arent 5* walkons.

The team has 105 players on the roster - walkons are NOT irrelevant...some are preferred or like I said earlier are good players coming off injuries, behavior issues, etc. Burlsworth was a walk-on - to say they are irrelevant shows a lot about you.

Roster - 105 players

Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Jonbo on February 11, 2018, 06:34:38 am
The team has 105 players on the roster - walkons are NOT irrelevant...some are preferred or like I said earlier are good players coming off injuries, behavior issues, etc. Burlsworth was a walk-on - to say they are irrelevant shows a lot about you.

Roster - 105 players
Burlsworth was such an outlier they made a movie about his story. I don't think he means to say the walk-ons are irrelevant as people, but to the purpose of this discussion of "stars".
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 11, 2018, 07:12:27 am
Burlsworth was such an outlier they made a movie about his story. I don't think he means to say the walk-ons are irrelevant as people, but to the purpose of this discussion of "stars".

This is a discussion of the 'roster' - as the thread title implies - it was also a discussion of how 2&3 star guys make All SEC and go to the NFL at a higher clip than any other star ranking....

Btw - most walkons have a 'story' - not just scrub guys from Alpena...these are football players that got thrown off track for one reason or another. Not just a kid from Clifty that decides he wants to practice w the Razorbacks.

Get real.

Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: wildhogman on February 11, 2018, 12:34:25 pm
This is a discussion of the 'roster' - as the thread title implies - it was also a discussion of how 2&3 star guys make All SEC and go to the NFL at a higher clip than any other star ranking....

Btw - most walkons have a 'story' - not just scrub guys from Alpena...these are football players that got thrown off track for one reason or another. Not just a kid from Clifty that decides he wants to practice w the Razorbacks.

Get real.


So going by this match. Does bamma have more 2 stars then 4 stars?  I'l hang up and listen
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 11, 2018, 12:43:59 pm
So going by this match. Does bamma have more 2 stars then 4 stars?  I'l hang up and listen

Bama has 3 star walkons probably....do the research - don't know.

Let me know when you get a chance.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Pig in the Pokey on February 11, 2018, 12:44:28 pm
This is a discussion of the 'roster' - as the thread title implies - it was also a discussion of how 2&3 star guys make All SEC and go to the NFL at a higher clip than any other star ranking....

Btw - most walkons have a 'story' - not just scrub guys from Alpena...these are football players that got thrown off track for one reason or another. Not just a kid from Clifty that decides he wants to practice w the Razorbacks.

Get real.
You dont get to decide the entire discussion just b/c you started a thread. Hell, you start 20% of the threads on HV. ridiculous.

It's irrelevant to the discussion b/c EVERYBODY has 2* and 3* walkons, it says absolutely jackdarn about a program. Why even include it in the discussion? You are just trying to back your way into some sort of face saving after calling Arkansas a 2* school when we sign , on average, 1.3 2*s per season LMAO. 1.3!!! that vs the average 6.5 4*s per year. Since you dont math good, thats five times more 4*s than 2*s on scholarship at Arkansas. Or, 500% more 4*s.

 Also, the 105 man "roster" you keep bringing up. Riddle me this. How many players travel to a road game?  You know, the guys that actually might see the field; called a Travel Roster. Ill hang up and listen, Bart.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 11, 2018, 12:51:25 pm
You dont get to decide the entire discussion just b/c you started a thread. Hell, you start 20% of the threads on HV. ridiculous.

It's irrelevant to the discussion b/c EVERYBODY has 2* and 3* walkons, it says absolutely jackdarn about a program. Why even include it in the discussion? You are just trying to back your way into some sort of face saving after calling Arkansas a 2* school when we sign , on average, 1.3 2*s per season LMAO. 1.3!!! that vs the average 6.5 4*s per year. Since you dont math good, thats five times more 4*s than 2*s on scholarship at Arkansas. Or, 500% more 4*s.

 Also, the 105 man "roster" you keep bringing up. Riddle me this. How many players travel to a road game?  You know, the guys that actually might see the field; called a Travel Roster. Ill hang up and listen, Bart.

It's not about who we sign....this thread is about the roster.

You can start about thread about scholarship recipients and their rankings, if you like.

Do you need help starting a thread or just want to bitch about being wrong? Btw, I think being loaded w 2&3 stars and walkons is a positive....you missed that part. It's not a negative, a positive.  I'm not a stars guy
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Pig in the Pokey on February 11, 2018, 12:54:59 pm
It's not about who we sign....this thread is about the roster.

You can start about thread about scholarship recipients and their rankings, if you like.

Do you need help starting a thread or just want to bitch about being wrong?
you need to lay off the sauce; your brain is addled.

One more time. THERE is NOTHING to "discuss" about walk-ons. The are ALWAYS 3* or less, in every program, always. The ONLY exception to that is like a coaches son or a millionaire kid trying to help out the school, like a legacy player.

ARKANSAS is NOT a 2 and 3 star school. Its just not. It's a 3 and 4 star school, by ANY measure, even if you ARE counting walk ons. And you are literally the only poster in this thread who cant seem to grasp that. We still coolio in my book, but this is a lost cause.

it's /Thread. go ahead and get some pale ass last word in, im out.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 11, 2018, 12:56:28 pm
you need to lay off the sauce; your brain is addled.

One more time. THERE is NOTHING to "discuss" about walk-ons. The are ALWAYS 3* or less, in every program, always. The ONLY exception to that is like a coaches son or a millionaire kid trying to help out the school, like a legacy player.

ARKANSAS is NOT a 2 and 3 star school. Its just not. It's a 3 and 4 star school, by ANY measure, even if you ARE counting walk ons. And you are literally the only poster in this thread who cant seem to grasp that.

it's /Thread. go ahead and get some pale ass last word in, im out.

Very insightful....

You struggle at math, obviously
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: HogX on February 11, 2018, 12:58:55 pm
If we're going to go by the absurdity of the full roster, half of Alabama's roster is somewhere between unranked to 3 star.

https://247sports.com/Team/Alabama-Crimson-Tide-164/Roster (https://247sports.com/Team/Alabama-Crimson-Tide-164/Roster)
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Vantage 8 dude on February 11, 2018, 01:06:25 pm
If we're going to go by the absurdity of the full roster, half of Alabama's roster is somewhere between unranked to 3 star.

https://247sports.com/Team/Alabama-Crimson-Tide-164/Roster (https://247sports.com/Team/Alabama-Crimson-Tide-164/Roster)
A HUGE difference in 'Bama and almost every other program is that no matter how many stars a kid has they find a way to develop their talent and help them play to their maximum potential. Inarguably talent counts; however, it's what you do with that talent AND how you develop the potential of EVERY player that truly separates the great coaches and the programs they run. Under Saban the Tide has feasted on players of ALL skill/rating levels; it's one thing that's made the program so difficult to defeat.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: HogX on February 11, 2018, 01:07:40 pm
I mean, I agree.  But that wasn't the argument here. 
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 11, 2018, 01:09:18 pm
A HUGE difference in 'Bama and almost every other program is that no matter how many stars a kid has they find a way to develop their talent and help them play to their maximum potential. Inarguably talent counts; however, it's what you do with that talent AND how you develop the potential of EVERY player that truly separates the great coaches and the programs they run.

Exactly

If anybody remembers Neb during the days when they were powerful...they had the best walkon program in the nation. O lineman would give up scholarships to small schools and walk on at Neb with the hopes of earning a scholarship.

One of Scott Frosts number ONE goals is the restore the redshirt program

http://www.omaha.com/huskers/football/recruiting/signing-day/scott-frost-hopes-to-expand-roster-with-goal-of-restoring/article_bc029f73-946f-5082-8b72-3b4db94cde38.html

 "We want to make sure we have the right guys in the program, the right walk-ons in the program, as well. And guys we feel like can come in here and get in Zach Duval's (strength and conditioning) program, and get with our coaches and develop into players, and eventually be on the field and help this football team.

"That's what's happened at Nebraska in the past, and I'd like to see it happen again."

Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: HogX on February 11, 2018, 01:13:40 pm
A HUGE difference in 'Bama and almost every other program is that no matter how many stars a kid has they find a way to develop their talent and help them play to their maximum potential.

Well, Oklahoma's roster is the same way.

https://247sports.com/Team/Oklahoma-Sooners-Football-39/Roster (https://247sports.com/Team/Oklahoma-Sooners-Football-39/Roster)

And Clemson

https://247sports.com/Team/Clemson-Tigers-Football-3/Roster (https://247sports.com/Team/Clemson-Tigers-Football-3/Roster)

And Georgia.

https://247sports.com/Team/Georgia-Bulldogs-Football-172/Roster (https://247sports.com/Team/Georgia-Bulldogs-Football-172/Roster)

And Ohio State.

https://247sports.com/Team/Ohio-State-Buckeyes-Football-79/Roster (https://247sports.com/Team/Ohio-State-Buckeyes-Football-79/Roster)

Etc, etc.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 11, 2018, 01:16:00 pm
One more time.....it's not about stars

It's about player development

All together now:

Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: HogX on February 11, 2018, 01:18:23 pm
One more time.....it's not about stars

It's about player development

All together now:

Odd, considering the title of this thread and the discussions that have been going on throughout it.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 11, 2018, 01:21:05 pm
Odd, considering the title of this thread and the discussions that have been going on throughout it.

Why is the title of this thread considered negative?

In the spirit of not caring about stars and player development - It should be a positive thread.

CCM doens't care about stars - why are we so wrapped up in them? Let's develop some players and go win some damn games. Simple.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Pig in the Pokey on February 11, 2018, 01:26:14 pm
Well, Oklahoma's roster is the same way.

https://247sports.com/Team/Oklahoma-Sooners-Football-39/Roster (https://247sports.com/Team/Oklahoma-Sooners-Football-39/Roster)

And Clemson

https://247sports.com/Team/Clemson-Tigers-Football-3/Roster (https://247sports.com/Team/Clemson-Tigers-Football-3/Roster)

And Georgia.

https://247sports.com/Team/Georgia-Bulldogs-Football-172/Roster (https://247sports.com/Team/Georgia-Bulldogs-Football-172/Roster)

And Ohio State.

https://247sports.com/Team/Ohio-State-Buckeyes-Football-79/Roster (https://247sports.com/Team/Ohio-State-Buckeyes-Football-79/Roster)

Etc, etc.
exactly. it's pointless to talk about the bottom half of a 105 man roster when only 22 players are starters on off/def. scholarship players matter much more. Like 98% of it.

Also, on the 105 again. ONLY 80 players can dress and play, not 105.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Vantage 8 dude on February 11, 2018, 01:49:22 pm
Well, Oklahoma's roster is the same way.

https://247sports.com/Team/Oklahoma-Sooners-Football-39/Roster (https://247sports.com/Team/Oklahoma-Sooners-Football-39/Roster)

And Clemson

https://247sports.com/Team/Clemson-Tigers-Football-3/Roster (https://247sports.com/Team/Clemson-Tigers-Football-3/Roster)

And Georgia.

https://247sports.com/Team/Georgia-Bulldogs-Football-172/Roster (https://247sports.com/Team/Georgia-Bulldogs-Football-172/Roster)

And Ohio State.

https://247sports.com/Team/Ohio-State-Buckeyes-Football-79/Roster (https://247sports.com/Team/Ohio-State-Buckeyes-Football-79/Roster)

Etc, etc.
Okay, I'll concede that Alabama is not the only program that can do such; however, they still stand out IMO as being the BEST at such. Whatever one takes away from such an observation is that NO MATTER the name of the program or the team MOST are able to take virtually ALL their roster, no matter rankings/stars and upgrade their play through coaching and other developmental techniques. That's why a COMBINATION of star power and talent development is IMO the best approach to ultimate success. The Hogs need to do a better job in both areas going forward.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 11, 2018, 02:13:34 pm
exactly. it's pointless to talk about the bottom half of a 105 man roster when only 22 players are starters on off/def. scholarship players matter much more. Like 98% of it.

Also, on the 105 again. ONLY 80 players can dress and play, not 105.

I guess you've missed the point behind the whole walk on / player development discussion...
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: liljo on February 11, 2018, 09:33:36 pm
Wonder what ol' 3-star Chase Hayden would look like if we could slip a high school jersey on him this year and turn him loose...or any of a whole bunch of players on the current roster.

Guess he'd be in trouble if he had to try and turn the corner against a 4-star LB, huh... ;D

Yeah. And poor lil ol' TJ...he'd prolly just get tore up by some 5-star CB... ;)


You know, I've seen kids that just peaked earlier than others. When I was 20, I'd have been a real good addition to my high school team. But when I was 18, I was 15 pounds less muscle and barely shaving.

Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: DeltaBoy on February 11, 2018, 09:47:54 pm
If recruiting was an exact science we never would have lost Toledo!
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: UAGolfer1981 on February 12, 2018, 06:49:27 pm
I agree with OP, coaching is the largest contributor for Arkansas to compete for SEC championships.  Historically, we rank 9th in the SEC Recruiting.  During the Petrino and Nutt(gulp) eras, Arkansas competed for SEC championships.  We have proven we can compete with "average" SEC recruiting classes.  THERE IS HOPE!
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: PygmalionEffect2 on February 12, 2018, 07:25:43 pm
Quote
One more time.....it's not about stars

It's about player development

All together now:

(https://i.imgur.com/RkYr3XC.gif)
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: MuskogeeHogFan on February 12, 2018, 08:19:02 pm
One more time.....it's not about stars

It's about player development

All together now:



It's about both, not just one or the other.
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on February 12, 2018, 08:29:53 pm
It's about both, not just one or the other.

Twist apparently just stays drunk all the time. 
Title: Re: We have a roster full of 2 and 3 star guys
Post by: twistitup on February 12, 2018, 09:12:22 pm
Twist apparently just stays drunk all the time.

I drink a bit...but alcohol is not my drug of choice

I agree, it's about a blend of stars and development...but I'm not a believer in the accuracy of the stars system