Hogville

RB Sports Discussion => Monday Morning Quarterback => Topic started by: Sweet Feet on February 03, 2018, 04:43:51 pm

Title: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Sweet Feet on February 03, 2018, 04:43:51 pm
I always wondered if Arkansas would have beaten Tennessee, the chances of a Title run would have been great. Of course i didn't factor in playing Miss St and if that was a win, a rematch with Tennessee in the SEC title game. If Stoerner never fumbles, do you think Arkansas would have at least had a good shot at a national title in 1998?
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: JS22 on February 03, 2018, 04:46:29 pm
Still would’ve had to beat Tennessee a second time, which would’ve been tough.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Pig in the Pokey on February 03, 2018, 04:47:57 pm
Still would’ve had to beat Tennessee a second time, which would’ve been tough.
, and Florida State. AND that Mississippi State game more than likely.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: jneal56 on February 03, 2018, 05:00:59 pm
I always wondered if Arkansas would have beaten Tennessee, the chances of a Title run would have been great. Of course i didn't factor in playing Miss St and if that was a win, a rematch with Tennessee in the SEC title game. If Stoerner never fumbles, do you think Arkansas would have at least had a good shot at a national title in 1998?

Nope....lost to MSU and then Michigan. Think it's pretty safe to say the magic would have ran out at the SECCG. I could be wrong but pretty certain I'm not!
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Sed76 on February 03, 2018, 05:03:45 pm
Nutt would have found a way to foul it up somehow.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: porkurina on February 03, 2018, 05:05:06 pm
If Stoerner never has his foot stepped on, would he have fumbled?
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: hoglady on February 03, 2018, 05:06:21 pm
If Stoerner never has his foot stepped on, would he have fumbled?

Exactly - everyone always blames Stoerner alone for that.
It was just a freak play.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: alohawg on February 03, 2018, 05:08:35 pm
We'll never know, ever.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: jgphillips3 on February 03, 2018, 05:08:46 pm
I doubt we would have won the title but we would have beaten MSU since, in essence, the factors that caused us to lose (such as the suspended kicker) would never have happened.  I think we would have either lost the Tennessee rematch or lost the national title game. 
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: HiggiePiggy on February 03, 2018, 05:12:12 pm
Who was our head coach........No

We lost the very next week to Mississippi State.

Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: hoggusamoungus on February 03, 2018, 05:18:29 pm
The title should read - If Joe Dean Davenport catches the tight end screen, does Arkansas win the National Title? 

Perfect play call that would have sealed the game and the fumble never happens.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: str8volfan on February 03, 2018, 05:20:18 pm
no
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: exit followed by a boar on February 03, 2018, 05:21:37 pm
The title should read - If Joe Dean Davenport catches the tight end screen, does Arkansas win the National Title? 

Perfect play call that would have sealed the game and the fumble never happens.

This.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: jdlew on February 03, 2018, 05:24:55 pm
If Stoerner never has his foot stepped on, would he have fumbled?

No...Burlsworth got blown up on the play and to Stoerner's credit..he always takes the high road about the fumble..
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: oldbooniehog on February 03, 2018, 05:49:15 pm
No.

Arkansas would have still found a way to blow it.

That's what Arkansas does best.

Get to the edge of greatness, and then blow it.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: hogcards on February 03, 2018, 05:52:51 pm
None of that was Stoener's fault.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: rtr on February 03, 2018, 05:59:08 pm
I sure would have liked to have found out the answer to OP's questions.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: kp72204 on February 03, 2018, 06:14:42 pm
If fish doesn't fumble in end zone, do we win sec?
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: SSFrazorback on February 03, 2018, 06:44:36 pm
If you touch the ball to the ground isn’t it a dead ball at that point?
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Flrazrback on February 03, 2018, 06:53:31 pm
Wasn't Clint's fault, it was a broken play. Ball just happened to come loose. We had a good season though. Looking forward to the future.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Steef on February 03, 2018, 07:06:38 pm
Nutt would have found a way to foul it up somehow.

He did.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on February 03, 2018, 07:13:45 pm
If you touch the ball to the ground isn’t it a dead ball at that point?

No.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on February 03, 2018, 07:14:48 pm
If fish doesn't fumble in end zone, do we win sec?

Probably not.  Nutt was still coaching that night.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: twistitup on February 03, 2018, 07:25:49 pm
For sure

Title: If Stoerner never fumbles and we win NC....Nutt still here?
Post by: twistitup on February 03, 2018, 07:27:31 pm
Just say no fumble...we win NC - Would HDN still be here?
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: EastexHawg on February 03, 2018, 08:20:14 pm
I am ashamed of the fit I threw at the end of that game.  My wife left the house to get away from it.  Before she left I told her I had waited almost 30 years, since the '69 Big Shootout, for another chance at a national championship...and that I would be dead before it happened again.

I was almost proven wrong in 2011.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: BigE_23 on February 03, 2018, 08:20:27 pm
Exactly - everyone always blames Stoerner alone for that.
It was just a freak play.

The Tenner defender made a great move bull-rushing Burlsworth into the backfield. You have to give credit where it's due...and yes - the rest was just a typical "Arkansas is snake-bit" freakish kind play.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: EastArkHog 47 on February 03, 2018, 09:02:36 pm
Beating FSU would have been almost easy, beating Tenner again not so much.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: ALLVOL on February 03, 2018, 09:08:16 pm
The Tenner defender made a great move bull-rushing Burlsworth into the backfield. You have to give credit where it's due...and yes - the rest was just a typical "Arkansas is snake-bit" freakish kind play.
You're exactly correct.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: kodiakisland on February 03, 2018, 09:11:58 pm
Who was our head coach........No

We lost the very next week to Mississippi State.



Yeah, because of the way we lost that game.  I can still remember how sick everyone was for the whole week.  Had we won that game, we would have gone to the SEC Championship game undefeated and most likely lost, so no, I don't think we would have won a NC, but we would have ended the season 13-1.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: The_Bionic_Pig on February 03, 2018, 10:02:38 pm
Just say no fumble...we win NC - Would HDN still be here?

With a title ring Nebraska would have paid the necessary $$$ to get him.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: orvillesghost on February 03, 2018, 11:16:26 pm
no

MSU would have got us the next week or Tenn would have waxed us in the SEC title game..or both
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: rljjr on February 04, 2018, 07:46:03 am
We beat Tenner and there is no way we lose to MSU the next week. You can’t discount momentum. Now, do we win the rematch with Tenner in the CG? Don’t know. But if we did we would have won the title ... no doubt in my mind. It was going to be us or Tenner.   They got it.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: twistitup on February 04, 2018, 07:47:39 am
We beat Tenner and there is no way we lose to MSU the next week. You can’t discount momentum. Now, do we win the rematch with Tenner in the CG? Don’t know. But if we did we would have won the title ... no doubt in my mind. It was going to be us or Tenner.   They got it.

Say it was us...we win the rematch.

What happens to Hootie after that - would he still be coach or AD?
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: jjdlc on February 04, 2018, 07:56:01 am
I have always felt like the MSU loss was largely from the hangover from the heartbreaker at Tenner.  And the kicker, Lattorete (sp?) being suspended after a DUI, who knows maybe he doesn't drink and drive if we win.  We beat MSU if he is active.  Anyway, I'm just saying, I think the MSU game is very different if we beat The Vols.  Who knows after that.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: SamBuckhart on February 04, 2018, 02:13:41 pm
Will never know. Hate Tenner. Just like if Randy Peshel drops the squirrel pass from slick street. Do we win NC in 69? :puke:
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Pig in the Pokey on February 04, 2018, 02:16:52 pm
Exactly - everyone always blames Stoerner alone for that.
It was just a freak play.
it was 100% on HOUSTON DALE NUTT< playcaller. A rollout naked ??!! WHY??
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Pig in the Pokey on February 04, 2018, 02:18:28 pm
The title should read - If Joe Dean Davenport catches the tight end screen, does Arkansas win the National Title? 

Perfect play call that would have sealed the game and the fumble never happens.
he called that paly, brotha. Unfortunately, he also called a QB naked rollout when he should have ran the damn ball.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: HoggyCat on February 04, 2018, 04:10:52 pm
If Atwater holds on to that interception...

If we don’t let UCLA get out to such a big lead...

If refs didn’t screw us in (insert year here, ‘69 for starters).....

If we could’ve beaten LSU in ‘06....

UofA.  University of Almost.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Hoggish1 on February 04, 2018, 04:11:33 pm
Still would’ve had to beat Tennessee a second time, which would’ve been tough.

Uh, no, they would have had to beat us twice, which would have been tougher.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: TebowHater on February 04, 2018, 04:19:15 pm
If fish doesn't fumble in end zone, do we win sec?

100%
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Hogwop on February 04, 2018, 05:34:00 pm
Exactly - everyone always blames Stoerner alone for that.
It was just a freak play.

It was like the definition of Razorback Football in one play
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: twistitup on February 04, 2018, 05:36:43 pm
Where would Houston be?
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Steef on February 04, 2018, 05:39:23 pm
Where would Houston be?

Right where he currently is. Regardless of where he might have climbed to in 99 (after a win), the same HDN that drove us & Ole Miss into the ground would have surfaced eventually.

Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Hogwop on February 04, 2018, 05:39:30 pm
Where would Houston be?

He'd be loved by 75% of the state and probably have his ass parked up in the AD office, no matter how bad he did after that. Hell there'd probably be a statue.

I just threw up in my mouth a little
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on February 04, 2018, 06:57:28 pm
Houston was never going to win any type of championship.  Regardless of Stoerner or Fish.

😂!!
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Tejano Jawg on February 04, 2018, 11:58:28 pm
We beat Tenner and there is no way we lose to MSU the next week. You can’t discount momentum. Now, do we win the rematch with Tenner in the CG? Don’t know. But if we did we would have won the title ... no doubt in my mind. It was going to be us or Tenner.   They got it.

That Tennessee loss was so emotionally devastating because of the notoriety of the game, and our story up to that point. And because of the freak fumble.

However, what most forget is how costly the Miss State loss was. THAT was the one that ended any title hopes. That loss kept us from the rematch with Tennessee. Instead, Miss State won the West.

As mentioned here, there probably IS something to the momentum point…did we not recover enough from the disappointing loss in Knoxville?* If we hang on and beat the Vols, do we keep rolling all the way to the SEC Championship game? But that's not how it went. Miss State was a decent team, but they had 2 SEC losses (one to LSU). They went to Atlanta because of their head-to-head win over us.

*And many people here know the uncanny, almost supernatural, Nutt stat—in his time at Arkansas, he ALWAYS lost the game immediately after our first SEC loss. It started THIS year, his first year.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: pigture perfect on February 05, 2018, 01:28:55 am
I’ll say yeah. Just because it’s hypothetical.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: razortrack on February 05, 2018, 01:53:47 am
Blah blah blah. What could have been if only!!!!  Blah blah blah
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Hogwop on February 05, 2018, 03:39:34 am
Blah blah blah. What could have been if only!!!!  Blah blah blah

Yeah! God forbid people come to a message board and talk about things!
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: OneTuskOverTheLine™ on February 05, 2018, 07:04:23 am
Blah blah blah. What could have been if only!!!!  Blah blah blah

Yeah! God forbid people come to a message board and talk about things!

 Man that's a big assed slap to the face with the hand of irony...  +1
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: PermianPig on February 05, 2018, 08:46:23 am
It would have been tough trying to get past FSU
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Jim Harris on February 05, 2018, 11:07:57 am
If you touch the ball to the ground isn’t it a dead ball at that point?

no
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: DeltaBoy on February 05, 2018, 11:18:18 am
Horrible memories and we will never know.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Steef on February 05, 2018, 11:49:51 am
We lose that game whether Clint fumbles or not.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on February 05, 2018, 11:54:00 am
We lose that game whether Clint fumbles or not.

Boo ya!
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: LZH on February 05, 2018, 11:59:59 am
We lose that game whether Clint fumbles or not.

Probably spot on....our defense was gassed.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: HotlantaHog on February 05, 2018, 12:03:28 pm
There's too much enthusiasm about the 1998 team. Until the Tennessee game, Arkansas hadn't played very tough competition... just the way the schedule worked out, it was a down nonconference schedule and a down SEC the Arkansas was facing ....

I think the odds of winning the national championship -- the SEC championship and then against some really good team -- are pretty low.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Mo_Better_Hogs on February 05, 2018, 12:13:43 pm
However, what most forget is how costly the Miss State loss was. THAT was the one that ended any title hopes. That loss kept us from the rematch with Tennessee. Instead, Miss State won the West.

You're right. But the Clint fumble is so memorable, to the degree that I have no recollection of the Mississippi State loss. Most of us probably dismissed it as the hangover from the Tennessee loss the week before. But had we beaten the Dawgs, we would have been in the SEC title game.

As for the OP's original question, the answer has too many "ifs". If there's no fumble, do we keep the ball? If Tennessee gets it back, do they score anyway? If we win that game, do we beat Mississippi State? Most would say probably. Then, do we beat Tennessee again?

In all these scenarios, you have to factor in one more thing—our ranking. At time time we played Tennessee, they were No. 1 (and had been top 3 for a long time). But we were No. 10 (or something like that). Sure we would have gone up, but how far? 10 to top 2 or 3 is a long way to go. All the Vols had to do was stay there to make the title game. Who knows what the pollsters would have done with us.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: redleg on February 05, 2018, 03:19:04 pm
The answer is NO.
Tennessee would have beaten Arkansas in the SEC Championship Game for revenge.

The bigger question is, "If Arkansas had played right and beaten Miss St the next weekend, which would have handed the Hogs the outright West title, would Arkansas have beaten Tennessee in the SEC Championship Game?" The answer to that questions is YES! And Arkansas would have had a great shot at beating FSU in the national title game.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: HoginMemphis on February 06, 2018, 05:05:08 am
Who was our head coach........No

We lost the very next week to Mississippi State.
I was at that game as well as the TN game the week before. Arkansas had Miss St on the ropes twice in 4th Q. One play, it was on State's last drive and it was 4th and 20. They don't convert, game is over. Of course, they convert. A few plays later, they kick the winning FG. What did anyone expect then? We were Arkansas and we always lost that kind of game. 4th and 20. Let that sink in.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: HognitiveDissonance on February 06, 2018, 03:44:20 pm
They would have beat Miss St the following week, and also LSU to close the year.
They would have been undefeated going into Atlanta, but I think Tenn would have gotten them in the rematch.
I'm honest with my Hogs, there is no doubt Ark caught Tenn offguard in the first game. They went over to Knoxville and punched UT in the mouth early and got up 21-3. UT came back in the second half. I do think UT had a little more talent that year, and would have been fired up to play the rematch.

So, no national championship in 1998, in my opinion, but a fantastic season. Was still a very good season the way it actually transpired. 9-3 and Citrus Bowl.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: HognitiveDissonance on February 06, 2018, 03:47:13 pm
I was at that game as well as the TN game the week before. Arkansas had Miss St on the ropes twice in 4th Q. One play, it was on State's last drive and it was 4th and 20. They don't convert, game is over. Of course, they convert. A few plays later, they kick the winning FG. What did anyone expect then? We were Arkansas and we always lost that kind of game. 4th and 20. Let that sink in.
I was at the Miss St game as well. Don't forget the controversial fumble forced by Kenoy Kennedy that was not given to the Hogs. That was a big play late in the game.

I remember watching the game winning kick by State. You can never see the angle too well at the stadium, but there are still some people who swear to this day that kick was no good. Apparently it sailed right over the top of the goalpost. It was that close. They gave it to him.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: NoogaHog on February 06, 2018, 04:00:25 pm
They would have beat Miss St the following week, and also LSU to close the year.
They would have been undefeated going into Atlanta, but I think Tenn would have gotten them in the rematch.
I'm honest with my Hogs, there is no doubt Ark caught Tenn offguard in the first game. They went over to Knoxville and punched UT in the mouth early and got up 21-3. UT came back in the second half. I do think UT had a little more talent that year, and would have been fired up to play the rematch.

So, no national championship in 1998, in my opinion, but a fantastic season. Was still a very good season the way it actually transpired. 9-3 and Citrus Bowl.

I felt like a lot of games were like that with coach Nutt. Not the second half collapses like we saw with Coach B, but it would be like we got a head start but they were gaining on us. We were running, but they were running faster. Would they catch us before the clock ran out? If we won, it was because they ran out of clock. UT didn't run out of clock.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: HogFoo on February 06, 2018, 09:35:30 pm
Well, The Defense still had a chance to stop Tenner before they scored.  So, it's not at all to blame on Clint. Burls stepped on his foot, Clint put his hand down that had the ball, and it just came out.  They got it, then drove down what 50yards and had to score a TD tow in.    Now, of course, the air was let out of us after that, cuz I still don't know why Nutt wanted Clint to run around to drain the clock instead of just taking a knee.  One would think had Clint just took a Knee, we'd probably won.  Or if we tried to hand off to RB for no gain or whatever..    anyways..   yeah, the air let out of us after that. 

The thing is, if we beat MSU the next game, we play Tenner in the championship game for chance to play FSU for the NC!  But, our kicking game sucked.  Lattourette gets a dwi, gets suspended for the msu game, and we lose.  Of course that 3rd and 37 or whatever it was that Wayne Madkin makes, to keep their hope alive to win the game, still, I don't think he made that !   but they gave it to him anyways.      If we just could have beat MSU,  but obviously didn't, then we go into the Michigan game, I'm sure most were disappointed for a little.  and of course we just happen tobe playing the GOAT! 
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: Snouty on February 07, 2018, 04:16:42 pm
No, Tom Brady mounted a come from behind win in the Citrus Bowl.  We were a solid team, just not a national champion.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: HognitiveDissonance on February 07, 2018, 05:35:11 pm
No, Tom Brady mounted a come from behind win in the Citrus Bowl.  We were a solid team, just not a national champion.
I was at the Citrus Bowl too. (I was at a lot of games in 1998 and 1999)
It was 24-10 Michigan.
Ark recovered a fumble and later stormed back to take a 31-24 lead.
Then Michigan stormed back and won 45-31.
Great game.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: 1highhog on February 07, 2018, 05:37:08 pm
, and Florida State. AND that Mississippi State game more than likely.

We would have beaten Miss State.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: ghostzapper on February 08, 2018, 06:03:59 am
Beating FSU would have been almost easy, beating Tenner again not so much.

Since we’re playing what ifs here, what if Chris Weinke doesn’t get hurt?  Nobody would have beaten FSU.
Title: Re: If Stoerner never fumbles, does Arkansas win the National Title?
Post by: WMHawgfan on February 08, 2018, 11:13:28 am
Even with the fumble and loss to TN we moved up in the rankings or didn't drop. We still could have played them again and had a shot if we didn't blow it against MS State.

Question there is if we didn't allow them to convert on 3rd and 18 at the end of the game do we go on to win it all? you can what if the hell out of this thing.