Hogville

RB Sports Discussion => Monday Morning Quarterback => Topic started by: HogShat on November 10, 2017, 11:59:19 am

Title: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: HogShat on November 10, 2017, 11:59:19 am
I know very few will agree, but I have seen it happen too many times throughout my life. From bosses to coaches to spouses.  Quite a few years ago, we weren't happy with our Chief. Everyone griping and moaning that he needed to go, and for justified reasons. I was right there on the bandwagon with them. Even went so far as to tell him so in an open "say whats on your heart" meeting with him and the rest of my shift. I told him I didn't want him to be hit by a bus or a tree fall on him, I just wished he was the Fire Chief in Anchorage Alaska. That would be far enough away for me. An older Captain told me afterwards that sometimes you are better off with the idiot you have. The next one may be worse. Let that soak in. This is not a keep CBB and Long thread by any means, nor is it a shoulda kept Bobby post. Just remember all the feelings you had 5 years ago about how it was gonna be. Excluding Smiley, would we have been better off with the idiot we had? Can we learn anything from it?
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: phadedhawg on November 10, 2017, 12:01:20 pm
No matter who replaces the abominable duo, the next people will encounter similar challenges.  We can do better but it will never be perfect. 
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: The Hawg Marshal on November 10, 2017, 12:02:32 pm
Brother , sometimes you have to take a chance that the next one won't be an idiot. In this case I think it's worth a try.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: jgphillips3 on November 10, 2017, 12:04:46 pm
Itís always good to remember it can be worse.  However, in football, you just keep hiring until you get it right.  Also, really, it canít be much worse than it is.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: ipigsooie on November 10, 2017, 12:12:06 pm
It has literally never been this bad. So im not sure how it could get any worse. This reasoning makes no sense. It would be different if we were somewhat competitive or if we had some light at the end of the tunnel. We are THE worst team in the sec. We were awful in the beginning of the current era but there was some life, and we were showing improvement. I was late on the fire Bielema train as i was growing weary,  and then after the SC game i was done. Im tired of being embarrassed.  Im tired of our players quitting. Im tired of us being a doormat. Its time for change. You have to hope and pray that the next guy is the right one, but one thing i do know is that our current one isnt.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: Seebs on November 10, 2017, 12:12:46 pm
I just want to be competitive each week.  Bring in Penn and Teller if that gets us there.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: BearsBisonsBoars on November 10, 2017, 12:13:59 pm
Eh, I disagree. I don't think Long has done poorly enough to justify the recent crusade, but keeping someone because you're afraid of doing worse is a losing mentality, imo.

Sometimes you have to take the risk. (Though that risk should be managed, and not governed by emotion - which is my primary criticism of the Fire Long crowd)
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: rzrbaxfan on November 10, 2017, 12:28:09 pm
I think that logic works if you've had 3 idiot chiefs in a row, all of your surrounding fire departments having idiot chiefs as well, and the stack of chief resumes on your desk are all idiots too.

However, not including JLS, the two previous coaches have had more success here than BB.  That shows you that it is possible.  Also, there is no shortage of names out there of coaches that we have a reasonable chance of landing that show the potential to do more than BB has done.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: theFlyingHog on November 10, 2017, 12:29:55 pm
Don't cross the street if you can't get out of the kitchen. People in glass houses sink ships.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: Boss Hog in the Arkansas on November 10, 2017, 12:30:33 pm
That's like staying in a relationship with an attractive girl that cheats on you just because you're afraid the next person MIGHT cheat on you too
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: OneTuskOverTheLineô on November 10, 2017, 12:32:16 pm
I know very few will agree, but I have seen it happen too many times throughout my life. From bosses to coaches to spouses.  Quite a few years ago, we weren't happy with our Chief. Everyone griping and moaning that he needed to go, and for justified reasons. I was right there on the bandwagon with them. Even went so far as to tell him so in an open "say whats on your heart" meeting with him and the rest of my shift. I told him I didn't want him to be hit by a bus or a tree fall on him, I just wished he was the Fire Chief in Anchorage Alaska. That would be far enough away for me. An older Captain told me afterwards that sometimes you are better off with the idiot you have. The next one may be worse. Let that soak in. This is not a keep CBB and Long thread by any means, nor is it a shoulda kept Bobby post. Just remember all the feelings you had 5 years ago about how it was gonna be. Excluding Smiley, would we have been better off with the idiot we had? Can we learn anything from it?

 So we should anticipate change with great fear and trembling; hoping and praying that we get what we want and not what we deserve. Is that right?
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: The Hawg Marshal on November 10, 2017, 12:32:49 pm
Eh, I disagree. I don't think Long has done poorly enough to justify the recent crusade, but keeping someone because you're afraid of doing worse is a losing mentality, imo.

Sometimes you have to take the risk. (Though that risk should be managed, and not governed by emotion - which is my primary criticism of the Fire Long crowd)
I thought we were talking about the coach, I don't have the hate for Long that some do.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: TexArkHogFan on November 10, 2017, 12:38:00 pm
The Boston Red Sox won their division the past two years and were eliminated in the first round of the playoffs. They fired their manager with the owner saying "it was time for a change"
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: 007 License To Squeal on November 10, 2017, 12:47:16 pm
We are at the bottom of the SECW.  How could it be worse with anyone else?
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: The NewEra on November 10, 2017, 12:47:42 pm
OP, your old fireman friend was certainly very wise.  The lesson I hope we can learn from this situation on the coaching front is, hire Mike Norvell out of Memphis.  I haven't seen anyone say they will jump over a cliff if he's hired.  He understands Arkansas and the passion for the Hogs.  Unite the fan base for the first time in quite a while and give the man five years to show sustained progress.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: BearsBisonsBoars on November 10, 2017, 12:50:54 pm
I thought we were talking about the coach, I don't have the hate for Long that some do.

I think OP meant both. I limited it to Long bc I'm pretty sure CBB is already decided.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: SooieGeneris on November 10, 2017, 12:53:04 pm
I don't believe in going thru life not ever doing anything, simply maintaining the status quo, because the alternative could be worse..

If the founders of this country had thought like that, we'd still be having to bow down and kiss the ring of the King or Queen of England and picking hankies out of our sleeves.

Over a quarter of a century ago, I left a job I had grown to hate against the advice of friends and family. The business I left closed about 5 years later. I would have left with basically nothing.

I stayed on the new job for 26 years, received a nice settlement when they closed and draw a nice pension.

None of those things would have happened had I stayed in the old job. There is no one-size-fits-all solution for every situation, but doing nothing about this football program could lead to years and years of what we see now.

Sometimes it's worth the risk to take action, one just has to trust their instincts. If Clemson had not fired Tommy Bowden and promoted Swinney, would they be where they are? I think NOT.

They'd likely be mired in mediocrity. If 'Bama had not fired Shula and gone after Saban, would they have all those NC rings to polish?

Sam Walton could have curled up in the Jim Bakker fetal position when he was bought out by his partner at a Ben Franklin store in Newport years ago. Instead, he started his own company.

We take a chance when we get up in the morning. I'd much rather fail trying to make things better than do nothing when the status quo is failing. When one takes that approach, failure has already set in.

If the next guy is worse, wash, rinse, and repeat the process until you find one that works. JMO.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: EastexHawg on November 10, 2017, 12:53:41 pm
We're not talking about dumping our wives every time a hot new woman comes around.  These guys...Long and Bielema...are hired guns who are paid to be here.  There is no lifetime or even long term commitment, implied or otherwise.  If they are cut loose and their replacements aren't any better after a few years...fire them, too.  They would do the same if a bigger, better deal became available to them.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: Hawgey-Davidson on November 10, 2017, 12:53:57 pm
OP, your old fireman friend was certainly very wise.  The lesson I hope we can learn from this situation on the coaching front is, hire Mike Norvell out of Memphis.  I haven't seen anyone say they will jump over a cliff if he's hired.  He understands Arkansas and the passion for the Hogs.  Unite the fan base for the first time in quite a while and give the man five years to show sustained progress.
This^
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: HogShat on November 10, 2017, 12:59:00 pm
Don't cross the street if you can't get out of the kitchen. People in glass houses sink ships.

Exactly what I was trying to say.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: dpetty121263 on November 10, 2017, 01:19:11 pm
I know very few will agree, but I have seen it happen too many times throughout my life. From bosses to coaches to spouses.  Quite a few years ago, we weren't happy with our Chief. Everyone griping and moaning that he needed to go, and for justified reasons. I was right there on the bandwagon with them. Even went so far as to tell him so in an open "say whats on your heart" meeting with him and the rest of my shift. I told him I didn't want him to be hit by a bus or a tree fall on him, I just wished he was the Fire Chief in Anchorage Alaska. That would be far enough away for me. An older Captain told me afterwards that sometimes you are better off with the idiot you have. The next one may be worse. Let that soak in. This is not a keep CBB and Long thread by any means, nor is it a shoulda kept Bobby post. Just remember all the feelings you had 5 years ago about how it was gonna be. Excluding Smiley, would we have been better off with the idiot we had? Can we learn anything from it?
Well the problem Arkansas has always had is recruitment and it doesn't matter who is hired to replace Bert if he can't get bigger and better talent Arkansas will continue to flounder.. But i have always said Arkansas is in the wrong conference...
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: (notOM)Rebel123 on November 10, 2017, 01:21:04 pm
I was expecting, "don't play with matches, kid."
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: IronHog on November 10, 2017, 01:21:33 pm
At this point the pumper truck is rusty and has flat tires.....
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: jabberjawls on November 10, 2017, 01:26:02 pm
I know very few will agree, but I have seen it happen too many times throughout my life. From bosses to coaches to spouses.  Quite a few years ago, we weren't happy with our Chief. Everyone griping and moaning that he needed to go, and for justified reasons. I was right there on the bandwagon with them. Even went so far as to tell him so in an open "say whats on your heart" meeting with him and the rest of my shift. I told him I didn't want him to be hit by a bus or a tree fall on him, I just wished he was the Fire Chief in Anchorage Alaska. That would be far enough away for me. An older Captain told me afterwards that sometimes you are better off with the idiot you have. The next one may be worse. Let that soak in. This is not a keep CBB and Long thread by any means, nor is it a shoulda kept Bobby post. Just remember all the feelings you had 5 years ago about how it was gonna be. Excluding Smiley, would we have been better off with the idiot we had? Can we learn anything from it?
Yes, we did learn something very very important:
Don't let children play with matches, they'll burn down the house.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: Kevin on November 10, 2017, 01:27:40 pm
stop, drop & roll
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: Hogsmo Kramer on November 10, 2017, 01:29:07 pm
Thereís not a whole lot farther down we can go.

Weíre pretty close to rock bottom as is, might as well give it a shot.

Sticking with BB at this point, given his performance, is pretty much giving up.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: Arthur pigby sellers. on November 10, 2017, 01:39:45 pm
People keep saying the next guy could be worse.  It seems like we are about to fire some consistent 8 game winner just because we are Bored with him. Thatís not the case here CBB has not been mediocre he has been piss poor.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: GoldCoastHog on November 10, 2017, 01:58:01 pm
I know very few will agree, but I have seen it happen too many times throughout my life. From bosses to coaches to spouses.  Quite a few years ago, we weren't happy with our Chief. Everyone griping and moaning that he needed to go, and for justified reasons. I was right there on the bandwagon with them. Even went so far as to tell him so in an open "say whats on your heart" meeting with him and the rest of my shift. I told him I didn't want him to be hit by a bus or a tree fall on him, I just wished he was the Fire Chief in Anchorage Alaska. That would be far enough away for me. An older Captain told me afterwards that sometimes you are better off with the idiot you have. The next one may be worse. Let that soak in. This is not a keep CBB and Long thread by any means, nor is it a shoulda kept Bobby post. Just remember all the feelings you had 5 years ago about how it was gonna be. Excluding Smiley, would we have been better off with the idiot we had? Can we learn anything from it?

Iím willing to take the risk that the next idiot isnít 10-27 in league play five years deep into his tenure, opposed to the current idiot at 11-26.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: Michael D Huff AIA on November 10, 2017, 02:02:42 pm
I spent a lot of time on my "are we as bad as we've ever been" threads recently trying to dissect our place in Razorback football history. 

We aren't at the bottom, but we can see the bottom from where we are, and it's rising to meet us quickly.  It's time to find someone else to Captain this ship.  The iceberg is right in front of us.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: ModestoHOG63 on November 10, 2017, 02:11:25 pm
When I was 13 our house caught fire (bad chimney flu) and burned down.    A fireman told me ...."Hey stupid....get the hell out there!"     He seemed pretty wise.   ;)
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: Oklahawg on November 10, 2017, 02:11:32 pm
I agree 100%.

We are overstating the "tragedy" of Long + CBB but it isn't tragic, not when even recent history is invoked.

But, change begats hope. We need something to believe in.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: hogginbama on November 10, 2017, 02:13:39 pm
We are at the bottom of the SECW.  How could it be worse with anyone else?

There are many ways a situation can get worse when dealing with 18-22 year old young men. You are only looking at the won/loss column. I like to win just as much as the next guy, and feel we need to be more competitive. But, there could be major off the field issues to go along with a losing record with the new guy. I think that is what the OP means when he says the next guy could be worse.


Do I think BB will ever get us to a promised land...nope. I think he was brought in to build the base and the 1st floor, get the internal issues that almost no one on the board knows about, fixed. Then when it was time, hand it off to the next guy to improve upon. Why the all out hatred for the guy is beyond my scope of reasoning. He has done a lot of good off the field and opened doors in the recruiting world that were closed by our last coach. His down to earth demeanor is what led to that and also has families viewing the UofA in a positive light. Now that the task has been completed, it is time to move to the next builder to complete floors 2 & 3. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither is a football team that remains in the elite for the long haul.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: theFlyingHog on November 10, 2017, 02:28:26 pm
Exactly what I was trying to say.
Then I respectfully retract my post. The OP is a defeatist post. I was just being stupid
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: DeltaBoy on November 10, 2017, 03:15:57 pm
5 years been long enough , Send Long and Coach packing.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: longtimeHogfan on November 10, 2017, 03:17:41 pm
Nobody hits a homerun everytime at the plate.  Hiring coaches is a crap shoot.  But I'm ready and willing to take a chance and move on.   
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: Oklahawg on November 10, 2017, 03:18:38 pm
Nobody hits a homerun everytime at the plate.  Hiring coaches is a crap shoot.  But I'm ready and willing to take a chance and move on.   

Great post.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: Athog on November 10, 2017, 03:24:53 pm
I know very few will agree, but I have seen it happen too many times throughout my life. From bosses to coaches to spouses.  Quite a few years ago, we weren't happy with our Chief. Everyone griping and moaning that he needed to go, and for justified reasons. I was right there on the bandwagon with them. Even went so far as to tell him so in an open "say whats on your heart" meeting with him and the rest of my shift. I told him I didn't want him to be hit by a bus or a tree fall on him, I just wished he was the Fire Chief in Anchorage Alaska. That would be far enough away for me. An older Captain told me afterwards that sometimes you are better off with the idiot you have. The next one may be worse. Let that soak in. This is not a keep CBB and Long thread by any means, nor is it a shoulda kept Bobby post. Just remember all the feelings you had 5 years ago about how it was gonna be. Excluding Smiley, would we have been better off with the idiot we had? Can we learn anything from it?

Great advice! One thing is sure in about 5-6 years somebody will want him gone. They wanted Nolan gone, they wanted Frank gone and they will be unhappy about something. Some people have to feel bad to feel good!
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: WaltonCollege on November 10, 2017, 03:38:44 pm
Dumb thread. We canít really get worse than we have been these past 13 games going into last season. We get embarrassed by any decent team. We havenít hit the floor as a program, we are living in the basement.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: b-ball coach on November 10, 2017, 04:09:24 pm
In leadership we say the 2 things people gripe most about:
1. The way things are
2. Change

At first everyone hates the way things are; eventually they hate the changes their bellyaching brought about. As a leader you better treat people right, work hard to ensure success, and have a sense of when itís time to move on. I hope Bret has the last one because he darn sure hasnít shown the first two.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: Sow Lancelot on November 10, 2017, 04:52:06 pm
I know very few will agree, but I have seen it happen too many times throughout my life. From bosses to coaches to spouses.  Quite a few years ago, we weren't happy with our Chief. Everyone griping and moaning that he needed to go, and for justified reasons. I was right there on the bandwagon with them. Even went so far as to tell him so in an open "say whats on your heart" meeting with him and the rest of my shift. I told him I didn't want him to be hit by a bus or a tree fall on him, I just wished he was the Fire Chief in Anchorage Alaska. That would be far enough away for me. An older Captain told me afterwards that sometimes you are better off with the idiot you have. The next one may be worse. Let that soak in. This is not a keep CBB and Long thread by any means, nor is it a shoulda kept Bobby post. Just remember all the feelings you had 5 years ago about how it was gonna be. Excluding Smiley, would we have been better off with the idiot we had? Can we learn anything from it?
ďBetter the devil you know...Ē
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: hoglady on November 10, 2017, 06:54:45 pm
The Boston Red Sox won their division the past two years and were eliminated in the first round of the playoffs. They fired their manager with the owner saying "it was time for a change"

That went beyond the play off loss.
There were issues between some players on the team and the Boston fans - the fans did not like this team.
An ugly incident between David Price (pitcher) and Dennis Eckersley (announcer) got out to the public.
The fans sided with Eckersley - Price was a prick, cussed at him and some other players applauded when it happened.
Farrell didn't defuse the situation and their was no public apology from Price or Farrell.

Cora's going to have some fence mending to do with the fan base.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20146201/report-provides-details-david-price-dennis-eckersley-altercation-boston-red-sox-pitcher-mocked-cursed-nesn-broadcaster
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: Pecos Hog on November 10, 2017, 07:17:37 pm
I was late on the fire Bielema train as i was growing weary,  and then after the SC game i was done. Im tired of being embarrassed.  Im tired of our players quitting. Im tired of us being a doormat. Its time for change. You have to hope and pray that the next guy is the right one, but one thing i do know is that our current one isnt.

Took you long enough.   I was done last year at Mizzou.   It was painfully obvious something was very bad wrong in our program.   The VT game eliminated any doubts.   

It's time to start fresh and to get better.   You never know for sure, but you have to take a chance.   
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: Hogindasticks on November 10, 2017, 07:20:01 pm
OP, your old fireman friend was certainly very wise.  The lesson I hope we can learn from this situation on the coaching front is, hire Mike Norvell out of Memphis.  I haven't seen anyone say they will jump over a cliff if he's hired.  He understands Arkansas and the passion for the Hogs.  Unite the fan base for the first time in quite a while and give the man five years to show sustained progress.

No recruiting going to happen with that hire....no way no how...gotta be a much bigger name.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: HiggiePiggy on November 11, 2017, 09:34:43 am
No recruiting going to happen with that hire....no way no how...gotta be a much bigger name.

Recruiting will be like normal.  Itís the coaching that has made these players a lot worse than what they are.  Bigger names do not always = better recruiting.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: Grunt on November 11, 2017, 09:40:12 am
No matter who replaces the abominable duo, the next people will encounter similar challenges.  We can do better but it will never be perfect. 
We have to hire better players.
Title: Re: Advice I was given by a wise old fireman...
Post by: The Hawg Marshal on November 11, 2017, 09:43:50 am
Just a side note: Not all of us old firemen are all that wise.lol
Seriously though, I've seen  bad Chief's in my day and I've seen  good ones. I've never seen a situation where a bad one leaving was a bad thing. Sometimes we had to go through a couple to get a good one, but the change was worth it in the long run.