Hogville

RB Sports Discussion => Monday Morning Quarterback => Topic started by: HoginMemphis on November 09, 2017, 11:23:42 am

Title: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: HoginMemphis on November 09, 2017, 11:23:42 am
Saw one today where Bob Costas says football is destroying brains. Saw another where the JAMA Network released a study that found more than 99% of deceased NFL players and 87% of football players from any level were "neuropathologically diagnosed with chronic traumatic encephalopathy".

A Nat'l Federation of State High School Associations report published in September, 2017 showed participation in 11 players tackle football dropped by 25,901 athletes from 2015-16 to 2016-17 school years. That # is nationwide but still significant.

Talent pool for college will drop off as kids do not participate in HS football. That will then cause same loss of talent pool for NFL. Lawsuits for liability will destroy the game if it does not self-implode over the next decade.

This is the sort of thing that can easily be ignored and thought of as either silly or crazy or both but facts are facts: this is real, it is destroying peoples' brains and causing severe consequences...suicide, loss of memory and loss of of functions. This house of cards can all come tumbling down on college and NFL a lot faster than anyone realizes. 10 yrs from now, this will not be a multi-billion dollar industry for colleges and NFL.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Grag T on November 09, 2017, 11:27:22 am
I can imagine getting smashed in the head for years could in fact cause problems.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: hogsanity on November 09, 2017, 11:31:06 am
It is not just head injuries though. Kids, or their parents, are deciding not to play football for many reasons.

Time
not wanting to put forth the effort
jackass coaches
bad team they would have to be on
injury possibility
other sports becoming more popular

and probably 2 dozen more that I did not think of.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: phadedhawg on November 09, 2017, 11:32:45 am
It is not just head injuries though. Kids, or their parents, are deciding not to play football for many reasons.

Time
not wanting to put forth the effort
jackass coaches
bad team they would have to be on
injury possibility
other sports becoming more popular

and probably 2 dozen more that I did not think of.

True but the brain injury issue seems like it might be enough to finish football off for good. 
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: IronHog on November 09, 2017, 11:37:21 am
Nothing new really.


I had a small to mid college player body and never suited up after pee wee due to the beatings I took as an 11-12 year old playing both ways.


Great decision
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: hogsanity on November 09, 2017, 11:37:43 am
True but the brain injury issue seems like it might be enough to finish football off for good. 

It wont help, that's for sure, but it is not going to get rid of the game.

What is eventually going to really hurt all sports is parents not being willing to take the time to get their kids involved. I see it in the rec leagues I help with. As more people who did not play sports have kids, they either see no reason to start, or once they do start their kids in something, are unwilling to make the time for practices.

It is why rec league soccer is so big. Usually practice once a week, play one game a week and that's it. I said REC LEAGUE, I am not talking about tournament teams.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: go hogues on November 09, 2017, 11:38:09 am
Saw one today where Bob Costas says football is destroying brains. Saw another where the JAMA Network released a study that found more than 99% of deceased NFL players and 87% of football players from any level were "neuropathologically diagnosed with chronic traumatic encephalopathy.

A Nat'l Federation of State High School Associations report published in September, 2017 showed participation in 11 players tackle football dropped by 25,901 athletes from 2015-16 to 2016-17 school years. That # is nationwide but still significant.

Talent pool for college will drop off as kids do not participate in HS football. That will then cause same loss of talent pool for NFL. Lawsuits for liability will destroy the game if it does not self-implode over the next decade.

This is the sort of thing that can easily be ignored and thought of as either silly or crazy or both but facts are facts: this is real, it is destroying peoples' brains and causing severe consequences...suicide, loss of memory and loss of of functions. This house of cards can all come tumbling down on college and NFL a lot faster than anyone realizes. 10 yrs from now, this will not be a multi-billion dollar industry for colleges and NFL.
Who knows.

If there's still a model out there where kids from low income or impoverished families can see football as a means to significant financial gain, then I think it will continue on.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: hogsanity on November 09, 2017, 11:41:08 am
Another thing that is coming into play is that a lot of kids just see no reason to put themselves through football. I will use my youngest as an example. 14 yrs old 6'2" 175", not a burner but not slow, good hands, has no desire to play football at all. He does play other sports.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: hogsanity on November 09, 2017, 11:41:34 am
Who knows.

If there's still a model out there where kids from low income or impoverished families can see football as a means to significant financial gain, then I think it will continue on.

Same reason some kids still go into boxing.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Inhogswetrust on November 09, 2017, 11:42:12 am
Saw one today where Bob Costas says football is destroying brains.

I can imagine getting smashed in the head for years could in fact cause problems.

Bob Costas loves baseball. I guess he forgot that baseball players get hit in the head sometimes as well with much less protection. Heck all team sport players might need to wear helmets and pads with all this sissification of sports going on.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Inhogswetrust on November 09, 2017, 11:42:48 am
It is not just head injuries though. Kids, or their parents, are deciding not to play football for many reasons.

Time
not wanting to put forth the effort
jackass coaches
bad team they would have to be on
injury possibility
other sports becoming more popular

and probably 2 dozen more that I did not think of.

Same with all sports.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: hogsanity on November 09, 2017, 11:47:24 am
Bob Costas loves baseball. I guess he forgot that baseball players get hit in the head sometimes as well with much less protection. Heck all team sport players might need to wear helmets and pads with all this sissification of sports going on.

Impressive, took longer than I thought before the sissy tag got thrown in.

Also, yes baseball players do OCCASIONALLY get hit in the head, but it is not the repeated blows to the head and jarring of the brain that happens in football.

As many people have said, football is not a contact sport it is a collision sport.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: elksnort on November 09, 2017, 11:52:07 am
So the game has been around since 1869 and it is just now deemed dangerous?
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Inhogswetrust on November 09, 2017, 11:53:57 am
Impressive, took longer than I thought before the sissy tag got thrown in.

Also, yes baseball players do OCCASIONALLY get hit in the head, but it is not the repeated blows to the head and jarring of the brain that happens in football.

As many people have said, football is not a contact sport it is a collision sport.

Collision sport? Try racing. I agree football can be a brutal type sport moreso than others but others are brutal as well. Maybe not as often but just as brutal.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Inhogswetrust on November 09, 2017, 11:55:08 am
So the game has been around since 1869 and it is just now deemed dangerous?

It has actually gotten safer over those years. One of the reasons the NCAA came into existence was the brutality of the sport back then.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Hoginsavga on November 09, 2017, 11:55:29 am
Bob Costas loves baseball. I guess he forgot that baseball players get hit in the head sometimes as well with much less protection. Heck all team sport players might need to wear helmets and pads with all this sissification of sports going on.

I love all sports but I don’t look at protecting the players with better and more equipment as sissification but common sense. I have often thought basketball players should wear some form of headgear. Hitting hardwood floors head first could cause serious head injuries. The same is true in other sports but not to the level of football.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: dfwalumdad on November 09, 2017, 11:56:17 am
really depends on how you baseline that number.

here's the release from nfhs that you quote:

Participation in 11-player football was down 25,901 from the previous year, although the numbers in 6- and 8-player football were up from the 2015-16 season. The overall number of participants in football (6, 8, 9 and 11 player) in 2016-17 was 1,086,748, down 25,503 from the 1,112,251 in the 2015-16 season.

While the number of participants in high school football declined, the number of schools offering the sport increased by 52 schools in 11-player – from 14,047 to 14,099 – and by nine schools in 6-, 8- and 9-player – from 1,349 to 1,358.

With 14,099 high schools offering 11-player football, the decrease of 25,901 participants amounts to fewer than two individuals 1.8 per school, and an overall decrease of 2.5 percent.

Football remains the No. 1 participatory sport for boys at the high school level by a large margin. Track and field is second with 600,136 participants, followed by basketball (550,305), baseball (491,790) and soccer (450,234).

https://www.nfhs.org/articles/high-school-sports-participation-increases-for-28th-straight-year-nears-8-million-mark/

by the way those numbers are down from historic highs the fact is that about 1.05 million kids play high school football every year and have for a very long time.

for what it's worth my son played 5 years of pee wee ball and six years of jr. high and high school, went to four years of razorback camp 2 years junior camp 2 years senior camp. the senior camp was during the petrino years. the senior camp was a contact camp and run pretty much by tim horton.

he loved every minute of playing football.

to be honest most of the people saying they wouldn't let their kids play football because of CTE kid's weren't going to play football anyway.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: hogsanity on November 09, 2017, 11:58:02 am
Maybe not as often but just as brutal.


There is the key though, the OFTEN part. Yes, when a racer slams the wall at 150mph+ it is brutal. How often does an individual that though? And, when a racer does get seriously injured, it is most often head/neck from the whiplash effect of the impact. Football players, especially linemen, take helmet contact almost every play. Minimal, yes often it is minimal, but it still has a cumulative effect.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: HoginMemphis on November 09, 2017, 11:59:33 am
It wont help, that's for sure, but it is not going to get rid of the game.

What is eventually going to really hurt all sports is parents not being willing to take the time to get their kids involved. I see it in the rec leagues I help with. As more people who did not play sports have kids, they either see no reason to start, or once they do start their kids in something, are unwilling to make the time for practices.

It is why rec league soccer is so big. Usually practice once a week, play one game a week and that's it. I said REC LEAGUE, I am not talking about tournament teams.
People in general and especially parents with multiple children, are busier now than they were when I was 10 years old in 1972. Usually, both parents work now. My Mom never worked when I was a child. They are spending $ on things that either were not in existence 40 years ago or were basically free...TV, radio, cell phones, internet connection, et al. So I agree with you and can see why and how parents have to pick and choose on what they allow their kids to participate in based on time, effort, interest, cost and chance of injury.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: hogsanity on November 09, 2017, 12:01:24 pm
really depends on how you baseline that number.

here's the release from nfhs that you quote:

Participation in 11-player football was down 25,901 from the previous year, although the numbers in 6- and 8-player football were up from the 2015-16 season. The overall number of participants in football (6, 8, 9 and 11 player) in 2016-17 was 1,086,748, down 25,503 from the 1,112,251 in the 2015-16 season.

While the number of participants in high school football declined, the number of schools offering the sport increased by 52 schools in 11-player – from 14,047 to 14,099 – and by nine schools in 6-, 8- and 9-player – from 1,349 to 1,358.

With 14,099 high schools offering 11-player football, the decrease of 25,901 participants amounts to fewer than two individuals 1.8 per school, and an overall decrease of 2.5 percent.

Football remains the No. 1 participatory sport for boys at the high school level by a large margin. Track and field is second with 600,136 participants, followed by basketball (550,305), baseball (491,790) and soccer (450,234).

https://www.nfhs.org/articles/high-school-sports-participation-increases-for-28th-straight-year-nears-8-million-mark/

by the way those numbers are down from historic highs the fact is that about 1.05 million kids play high school football every year and have for a very long time.

for what it's worth my son played 5 years of pee wee ball and six years of jr. high and high school, went to four years of razorback camp 2 years junior camp 2 years senior camp. the senior camp was during the petrino years. the senior camp was a contact camp and run pretty much by tim horton.

he loved every minute of playing football.

to be honest most of the people saying they wouldn't let their kids play football because of CTE kid's weren't going to play football anyway.

One thing about football, so many "play" because most schools will take however many that go out for play. Southside in FS had like 125 out for football this year, but no where near 125 of them saw playing time ( not even if you count JV games ). I officiated a 8th grade game where one team had about 40 kids and only 14 played all night, the rest just stood there holding their helmets.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Piggfoot on November 09, 2017, 12:02:39 pm
I believe the first step in safety is the removal of the suspension shoulder pads. It is impossible to lead with the top of the shoulder pad without leading with the head. The head gear and face mask should remain to minimize incidental head contact and facial injuries. Additionally, the face mask needs to be redesigned to prevent grabbing the face mask.









Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Inhogswetrust on November 09, 2017, 12:03:39 pm
There is the key though, the OFTEN part. Yes, when a racer slams the wall at 150mph+ it is brutal. How often does an individual that though? And, when a racer does get seriously injured, it is most often head/neck from the whiplash effect of the impact. Football players, especially linemen, take helmet contact almost every play. Minimal, yes often it is minimal, but it still has a cumulative effect.

I never said it didn't. However my sissification statement is about those that don't think anyone should play a sport with any contact lest they get hurt. Players play because they want to. Nobody is forcing them to play. There are actually a couple of rules I would change to make it safer but still not impact the game.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: hobhog on November 09, 2017, 12:04:33 pm
Soccer has more concussions than football....
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: HoginMemphis on November 09, 2017, 12:05:07 pm

If there's still a model out there where kids from low income or impoverished families can see football as a means to significant financial gain, then I think it will continue on.
Good point. It's already that now though. What % of all college scholarship players are from low income and/or single parent households? I know that can be found but educated guess is 75% or so.

In the NFL, 70% of the players are black, and probably 80% to 90% of them were from lower income households. Fyi: Christian McCaffrey was the first white tailback drafted in the 1st round in 40 years. Still, liability can kill college and NFL faster than anything else...faster than demographic change, than parents' choices, than players' choosing other activities.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Inhogswetrust on November 09, 2017, 12:06:53 pm
People in general and especially parents with multiple children, are busier now than they were when I was 10 years old in 1972. Usually, both parents work now. My Mom never worked when I was a child. They are spending $ on things that either were not in existence 40 years ago or were basically free...TV, radio, cell phones, internet connection, et al. So I agree with you and can see why and how parents have to pick and choose on what they allow their kids to participate in based on time, effort, interest, cost and chance of injury.

I graduated high school in 1975. Both my parents worked and my sister and I were just as busy as kids today. My parents spent a small fortune on what we wanted to do. They DID have to pick and choose what we did though even back then because they weren't rich or had anymore time than parents today do.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Inhogswetrust on November 09, 2017, 12:07:16 pm
Soccer has more concussions than football....

And more floppers.................
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: HoginMemphis on November 09, 2017, 12:07:32 pm
So the game has been around since 1869 and it is just now deemed dangerous?
Cars didn't have seatbelts for first 50 or 60 years either. School buses still do not. And they weren't really used by anyone until starting around 1980 or so. My parents never put me in a seatbelt as a child or young teen in '60's and '70's.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: HoginMemphis on November 09, 2017, 12:10:08 pm
really depends on how you baseline that number.

here's the release from nfhs that you quote:

Participation in 11-player football was down 25,901 from the previous year, although the numbers in 6- and 8-player football were up from the 2015-16 season. The overall number of participants in football (6, 8, 9 and 11 player) in 2016-17 was 1,086,748, down 25,503 from the 1,112,251 in the 2015-16 season.

While the number of participants in high school football declined, the number of schools offering the sport increased by 52 schools in 11-player – from 14,047 to 14,099 – and by nine schools in 6-, 8- and 9-player – from 1,349 to 1,358.

With 14,099 high schools offering 11-player football, the decrease of 25,901 participants amounts to fewer than two individuals 1.8 per school, and an overall decrease of 2.5 percent.

Football remains the No. 1 participatory sport for boys at the high school level by a large margin. Track and field is second with 600,136 participants, followed by basketball (550,305), baseball (491,790) and soccer (450,234).

https://www.nfhs.org/articles/high-school-sports-participation-increases-for-28th-straight-year-nears-8-million-mark/

by the way those numbers are down from historic highs the fact is that about 1.05 million kids play high school football every year and have for a very long time.

for what it's worth my son played 5 years of pee wee ball and six years of jr. high and high school, went to four years of razorback camp 2 years junior camp 2 years senior camp. the senior camp was during the petrino years. the senior camp was a contact camp and run pretty much by tim horton.

he loved every minute of playing football.

to be honest most of the people saying they wouldn't let their kids play football because of CTE kid's weren't going to play football anyway.
Is the 6 and 8 player football, which I have never heard of, tackle or flag? Where is it played, smaller schools and/or below high school? Is it offered by public schools or just private/parochial? Is there a 8 player football league among schools and a state championship?
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: BearsBisonsBoars on November 09, 2017, 12:14:28 pm
Wonder if we'll see heading become ilegal in Soccer, too. Research coming out seems to suggesrt that repeated low impact strikes on the head have the same effect as a concussion.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: BearsBisonsBoars on November 09, 2017, 12:15:34 pm
Cars didn't have seatbelts for first 50 or 60 years either. School buses still do not. And they weren't really used by anyone until starting around 1980 or so. My parents never put me in a seatbelt as a child or young teen in '60's and '70's.

Not to mention that people are bigger (more violent impacts) and living longer (more likely to develop brain diseases due to youthful injury)
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: From Tusk Till Dawn on November 09, 2017, 12:26:18 pm
So the game has been around since 1869 and it is just now deemed dangerous?
Technology is the biggest driver for all of this.  They have more tools available now that allow them to measure results and collect data than at any point in history. 
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: hogsanity on November 09, 2017, 12:29:29 pm
I graduated high school in 1975. Both my parents worked and my sister and I were just as busy as kids today. My parents spent a small fortune on what we wanted to do. They DID have to pick and choose what we did though even back then because they weren't rich or had anymore time than parents today do.

From my experience today's parents do not put their kids in sports that take up time because of what THE PARENTS want to do. They do not want to tie up Saturdays. They do not want to spend a couple nights a week at a ball field.

Is the 6 and 8 player football, which I have never heard of, tackle or flag? Where is it played, smaller schools and/or below high school? Is it offered by public schools or just private/parochial? Is there a 8 player football league among schools and a state championship?

Tackle. Only a couple schools in Ar play 8 man, and they had to leave the AAA to play it. They play mainly OK schools. OK has 8 man. Texas has 8 and maybe still 6. 8 and 6 are mainly played in Texas and the plains sates like KS, Iowa, Ned, Wy, Nd, Sd.

Ar schools are too proud to play 8 man, even though it would benefit a whole bunch of 2a schools and might even allow some non football schools to start a program.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: dfwalumdad on November 09, 2017, 12:29:47 pm
Is the 6 and 8 player football, which I have never heard of, tackle or flag? Where is it played, smaller schools and/or below high school? Is it offered by public schools or just private/parochial? Is there a 8 player football league among schools and a state championship?

it's smaller schools lot of them in texas  but they're all over and it's full pad football.

 
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: From Tusk Till Dawn on November 09, 2017, 12:32:38 pm
Is the 6 and 8 player football, which I have never heard of, tackle or flag? Where is it played, smaller schools and/or below high school? Is it offered by public schools or just private/parochial? Is there a 8 player football league among schools and a state championship?
I believe tackle, there is a great documentary  on espn called 6 man, you can probably watch online.  Primarily played in very rural areas.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: IronHog on November 09, 2017, 12:57:15 pm
Collision sport? Try racing. I agree football can be a brutal type sport moreso than others but others are brutal as well. Maybe not as often but just as brutal.

Bull riding is a rough as it gets
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: DeltaBoy on November 09, 2017, 01:17:53 pm
I been working in a public school for 15 years and the numbers are going down due to laziness, X box and scared Mommy's .

We have 30% of the Kids involved in everything, 30% involved in one or 2 things and 40 % sucking up air and occupying space.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: hogsanity on November 09, 2017, 01:23:00 pm
I been working in a public school for 15 years and the numbers are going down due to laziness, X box and scared Mommy's .

We have 30% of the Kids involved in everything, 30% involved in one or 2 things and 40 % sucking up air and occupying space.

Maybe the 40% are just not wanting to sit the bench behind the 30% that do everything?
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Rudy Baylor on November 09, 2017, 01:25:34 pm
Bob Costas is full of darn

Yes there are effects

And at the same time, there's no push against MMA fighting?

Easily calling BS
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: hogsanity on November 09, 2017, 01:28:32 pm
Bob Costas is full of darn

Yes there are effects

And at the same time, there's no push against MMA fighting?

Easily calling BS

1. There have been calls for MMA to be banned for years, a quick google search will show that.

2. How many kids between ages 5 and 18 are involved in MMA? Now how many play tackle football?

If you do not see the difference you may have one of the brain injuries, but I am guess you are just a troll.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Rudy Baylor on November 09, 2017, 01:31:22 pm
1. There have been calls for MMA to be banned for years, a quick google search will show that.

2. How many kids between ages 5 and 18 are involved in MMA? Now how many play tackle football?

If you do not see the difference you may have one of the brain injuries, but I am guess you are just a troll.

I"m guessing I played football a lot longer than you did
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: hogsanity on November 09, 2017, 01:36:42 pm
I"m guessing I played football a lot longer than you did

Oh, I think your posts pretty much prove that.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Rudy Baylor on November 09, 2017, 01:57:10 pm
Oh, I think your posts pretty much prove that.

sounds good

take care Angry Guy

 :D
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Hoginsavga on November 09, 2017, 02:42:25 pm
Wonder if we'll see heading become ilegal in Soccer, too. Research coming out seems to suggesrt that repeated low impact strikes on the head have the same effect as a concussion.

Soccer, basketball, baseball, and perhaps some other contact sports should require all participants to wear some form of headgear, IMO. Why not make all sports safer in regard to head injuries. Making sports safer does not lessen the excitement of sports.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: hogsanity on November 09, 2017, 02:46:06 pm
Soccer, basketball, baseball, and perhaps some other contact sports should require all participants to wear some form of headgear, IMO. Why not make all sports safer in regard to head injuries. Making sports safer does not lessen the excitement of sports.

Well, if headgear would stop the brain from sloshing around inside the skull, then that'd be great. That is what causes concussions, the brain hitting the INSIDE of the skull due to sudden stops of the head ( ie hitting another player, or the ground ) or having force exerted against the head ( like another player's head or a fast ball ).  They have done a fine job of protecting the outside of the head. When was the last football player in college or the pros to sustain a skull fracture? I can not remember the last time I heard about that. It is the inside of the head that there is no real way to protect.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: HoginMemphis on November 09, 2017, 02:46:34 pm
Bob Costas is full of darn

Yes there are effects

And at the same time, there's no push against MMA fighting?

Easily calling BS
Easy, big boy. MMA does not have people doing that at the 7th, 8th, 9th, et al grades and even younger. Nowhere near the numbers in MMA as football at all levels.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Hoginsavga on November 09, 2017, 02:55:37 pm
When I was in high school we had more students injured driving pickups and automobiles than those that were practicing football, basketball, etc. between 3:30 and 6:00pm. Unfortunately some of those injuries were much more serious. So there is a trade off between occupying time between sports or other activities. Sports, even with its downsides, keeps a lot of kids out of other activities that could be lifetime mistakes, such as crimes.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: DeltaBoy on November 09, 2017, 03:00:08 pm
Maybe the 40% are just not wanting to sit the bench behind the 30% that do everything?

No we have Freshman Football  Gold and Purple, JV 10-12 graders Gold and Purple and a Varsity Squad. Fish play 8 games and some get pulled up for the Playoffs JV plays 10 games and some more get pulled up for playoffs.

They do nothing , are nothing and accomplish Nothing. But they are "X box all americans.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Hoginsavga on November 09, 2017, 03:03:36 pm
Well, if headgear would stop the brain from sloshing around inside the skull, then that'd be great. That is what causes concussions, the brain hitting the INSIDE of the skull due to sudden stops of the head ( ie hitting another player, or the ground ) or having force exerted against the head ( like another player's head or a fast ball ).  They have done a fine job of protecting the outside of the head. When was the last football player in college or the pros to sustain a skull fracture? I can not remember the last time I heard about that. It is the inside of the head that there is no real way to protect.


I am aware of that but with foam padding on the inside and outside of the plastic base I would think it would be better than no protection at all. I  am not a doctor nor physicist so I don’t even pretend to have an answer for that. Wish I did I would be rich.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: bphi11ips on November 09, 2017, 03:17:24 pm
It could be worse:

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85066387/1905-11-27/ed-1/seq-1/#words=NINETEEN   (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85066387/1905-11-27/ed-1/seq-1/#words=NINETEEN)
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: jvanhorn on November 09, 2017, 03:21:54 pm
Bob Costas loves baseball. I guess he forgot that baseball players get hit in the head sometimes as well with much less protection. Heck all team sport players might need to wear helmets and pads with all this sissification of sports going on.

Are you kidding me?  Football players get hit on the head multiple times during a game.  How often have you ever seen a baseball player hit in the head?  Ribs, butt, legs, back maybe, but you have to be frozen like a deer in the headlights to get hit in the head.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Inhogswetrust on November 09, 2017, 03:21:58 pm
From my experience today's parents do not put their kids in sports that take up time because of what THE PARENTS want to do. They do not want to tie up Saturdays. They do not want to spend a couple nights a week at a ball field.


Have you been to any younger kids sporting events on Saturdays lately. They are FULL of parents that are there to watch their kids play.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Inhogswetrust on November 09, 2017, 03:23:03 pm
Bull riding is a rough as it gets

Yes it is and they have some using safety helmets and vests, etc.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Inhogswetrust on November 09, 2017, 03:26:24 pm
Are you kidding me?  Football players get hit on the head multiple times during a game.  How often have you ever seen a baseball player hit in the head?  Ribs, butt, legs, back maybe, but you have to be frozen like a deer in the headlights to get hit in the head.

Really ? I'ver seen numerous players get hit by a baseball while trying to get out of the way of it both in the batter's box AND on the pitcher mound while pitching....................
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: jvanhorn on November 09, 2017, 03:26:39 pm
Maybe the 40% are just not wanting to sit the bench behind the 30% that do everything?

LOL, well maybe that 40 per cent are actually doing homework and trying to get an education--in case you forgot what school was supposed to be about.  Or playing in the band, of raising pigs for the FFA!
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: jvanhorn on November 09, 2017, 03:29:31 pm
Really ? I'ver seen numerous players get hit by a baseball while trying to get out of the way of it both in the batter's box AND on the pitcher mound while pitching....................

If you still get hit in the head while trying to get out of the way maybe you shouldn't be playing sports.  Pitching is another story.  They are a sitting target but do they get hit in the head multiple times during the game. 
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: hawgmasta on November 09, 2017, 03:35:24 pm
No we have Freshman Football  Gold and Purple, JV 10-12 graders Gold and Purple and a Varsity Squad. Fish play 8 games and some get pulled up for the Playoffs JV plays 10 games and some more get pulled up for playoffs.

They do nothing , are nothing and accomplish Nothing. But they are "X box all americans.

Hell, some professional video game players make six figures now and it's a rapidly growing "sport". If I could make that kind of money playing video games. . A boy can dream.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: 10thPlanet on November 09, 2017, 03:45:32 pm
Until there's a study testing the general public we won't know how much of an anomaly. Medical studies are real good about taking a cross section for their research to get funding. Being hit anywhere over and over isn't a good plan. Question is does it take two MVA's to create the same damage? I think there's too many variables. Life is going to kill you.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: bennyl08 on November 09, 2017, 03:48:54 pm
Saw another where the JAMA Network released a study that found more than 99% of deceased NFL players and 87% of football players from any level were "neuropathologically diagnosed with chronic traumatic encephalopathy".

No you didn't. We all know the study you are talking about and the study never claimed what you are claiming it did.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: jkstock04 on November 09, 2017, 03:50:48 pm
I can imagine getting smashed in the head for years could in fact cause problems.
Don't you know you have to be a super scientist with 50 years of experience and be a multimillionaire to figure that out? Takes a real genius to come out and say hammering your head together with other guys for years on end increases likelihood of long term head injury.

Real shocking stuff.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: bennyl08 on November 09, 2017, 04:14:05 pm
Don't you know you have to be a super scientist with 50 years of experience and be a multimillionaire to figure that out? Takes a real genius to come out and say hammering your head together with other guys for years on end increases likelihood of long term head injury.

Real shocking stuff.

If only it was just hammering of heads that caused injury. That's literally the entire point is that you don't have to get your head hammered to get damage.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Ex-Trumpet on November 09, 2017, 04:16:34 pm
Let's be honest...idiot teachers/professors are ruining more brains than football ever could.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: hog of steele on November 09, 2017, 04:30:48 pm
Are you kidding me?  Football players get hit on the head multiple times during a game.  How often have you ever seen a baseball player hit in the head?  Ribs, butt, legs, back maybe, but you have to be frozen like a deer in the headlights to get hit in the head.

You would think that football would run away with this (after boxing) but soccer has a big CTE problem. I think it takes just a few concussions to trigger long term problems. People just weren't designed for brain pinball.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: HoginMemphis on November 09, 2017, 05:11:05 pm
No you didn't. We all know the study you are talking about and the study never claimed what you are claiming it did.
/This is a direct quote from the article I read today. It was a clickable link to jamanetwork.com and the study results.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: bennyl08 on November 09, 2017, 05:16:18 pm
/This is a direct quote from the article I read today. It was a clickable link to jamanetwork.com and the study results.

The study only looked at brains that were requested to be looked at. I.e. people who thought there'd be something to see in the first place. The study itself mentions this and how these results obviously can't be generalized to the entire NFL or sport.

If you are just quoting from the article, then the article is doing a bad job of reporting on the actual study.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Rudy Baylor on November 09, 2017, 07:21:47 pm
LOL, well maybe that 40 per cent are actually doing homework and trying to get an education--in case you forgot what school was supposed to be about.  Or playing in the band, of raising pigs for the FFA!

I knew a guy named Jeff McKnight once who was a pretty decent player

 ;)
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: bphi11ips on November 09, 2017, 07:31:50 pm
If only it was just hammering of heads that caused injury. That's literally the entire point is that you don't have to get your head hammered to get damage.

We are learning so much today that we never knew. Meat is bad. People get hurt playing football, ...
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Grunt on November 09, 2017, 07:45:35 pm
Frank Broyles on sideline checks for concussion: "If they're good, we correct them and put them back in."
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: HoginMemphis on November 10, 2017, 01:28:45 am
The study only looked at brains that were requested to be looked at. I.e. people who thought there'd be something to see in the first place. The study itself mentions this and how these results obviously can't be generalized to the entire NFL or sport.

If you are just quoting from the article, then the article is doing a bad job of reporting on the actual study.
Oh, ok. Then forget I mentioned the subject. I'm sure it is all fine.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: twistitup on November 10, 2017, 04:38:51 am
Same reason some kids still go into boxing.

Boxing? Maybe 30 yrs ago
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: davglo35 on November 10, 2017, 05:06:31 am
I completely stopped watching the nfl because of targeting. I don't watch anywhere near as much college football as i once did because of targeting and long delays for replay, I love the game. Been watching all my life. Watched guys like Butkus and Unitas play. It just doesn't make sense to me to tie the defense's hands and kick kids out of games for playing hard.
Injuries are a way of life in football. You don't want to be brain dead then don't play.
Bob Costas is a liberal anti gun idiot.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Peter Porker on November 10, 2017, 06:46:02 am
Another thing that is coming into play is that a lot of kids just see no reason to put themselves through football. I will use my youngest as an example. 14 yrs old 6'2" 175", not a burner but not slow, good hands, has no desire to play football at all. He does play other sports.

My kid stopped playing after the 9th grade. He loved playing the game. He hated having to give each day of the year to football. They had before-school practice, after-school practice, summer workouts (except the 2 weeks the AAA makes coaches take off) and the inability to be able to fully involve themselves in other sports (because coaches these days are selfish and want the athletes all to themselves).

Also, he didn't like our head coach. Didn't like his 3 yards and a cloud of dust. As a runningback he was coached to never juke a defender even if it was a safety and in doing so you'd score. Nope, we had to have long drives. Lots of really good players elected to not play for him.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: hogsolutely on November 10, 2017, 06:47:42 am
If this is the case then all sports is under the microscope.  I mean you can't get concussed when your head meets a basketball court, an all the blown out knees.   In soccer when 2 guys go up for a headder an they connect each other.  Or, in baseball sliding head first into a knee or taking one off the head.  So, what do they want all sports with a certain amount of glory comes at a cost.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: nwahogfan1 on November 10, 2017, 07:16:01 am
Saw one today where Bob Costas says football is destroying brains. Saw another where the JAMA Network released a study that found more than 99% of deceased NFL players and 87% of football players from any level were "neuropathologically diagnosed with chronic traumatic encephalopathy".

A Nat'l Federation of State High School Associations report published in September, 2017 showed participation in 11 players tackle football dropped by 25,901 athletes from 2015-16 to 2016-17 school years. That # is nationwide but still significant.

Talent pool for college will drop off as kids do not participate in HS football. That will then cause same loss of talent pool for NFL. Lawsuits for liability will destroy the game if it does not self-implode over the next decade.

This is the sort of thing that can easily be ignored and thought of as either silly or crazy or both but facts are facts: this is real, it is destroying peoples' brains and causing severe consequences...suicide, loss of memory and loss of of functions. This house of cards can all come tumbling down on college and NFL a lot faster than anyone realizes. 10 yrs from now, this will not be a multi-billion dollar industry for colleges and NFL.

Things will change for sure. No tackle football till middle school, teaching better techniques not using the head, more penalties trying to take out some of the dangerous hits. I think there are Very few dangerous and lasting hits until college when size, strength and speed really kicks in so this should save HS football.   The old heads may not like where the game will go but must be done to save the game.  I played college ball in the early 70s and coaching were teaching us to tackle putting the head in the middle of the chest.  That has changed years ago so other changes will be made.   I think football will survive.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: bphi11ips on November 10, 2017, 07:50:19 am
Things will change for sure. No tackle football till middle school, teaching better techniques not using the head, more penalties trying to take out some of the dangerous hits. I think there are Very few dangerous and lasting hits until college when size, strength and speed really kicks in so this should save HS football.   The old heads may not like where the game will go but must be done to save the game.  I played college ball in the early 70s and coaching were teaching us to tackle putting the head in the middle of the chest.  That has changed years ago so other changes will be made.   I think football will survive.

Someone you would all recognize immediately developed dementia recently and has concluded it was induced by football.  He played in the pros.  He called one of his oldest friends, who you would also recognize immediately, and asked him to do something about it. 

I think it would be a mistake not to teach kids before they reach middle school how to tackle with proper form.  My experience has been that middle school coaches are history teachers who are not nearly as motivated or knowledgeable as fathers with a vested interest.  The key is education and supervision at the youth level.  It works.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Hugo Bezdek on November 10, 2017, 08:15:52 am
I can't speak about nationwide trends but what I'm seeing at the middle school level with my own son is two things happening. 1) There are parents who don't want their boys risking a head injury, and they are not participating in football. 2) The demand in sports like soccer and baseball that you be committed to playing year-round is out of hand. Our pediatrician has told us that he's seeing a lot of repetitive stress injuries and Tommy John surgeries on teenagers that he didn't used to see. A number of kids are playing other sports in the fall now instead of football. There are already schools at the middle school level that have fielded teams in the past, but aren't now. Some are joining up with other schools to field a team and some just aren't participating.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: hogsanity on November 10, 2017, 08:21:09 am
If this is the case then all sports is under the microscope.  I mean you can't get concussed when your head meets a basketball court, an all the blown out knees.   In soccer when 2 guys go up for a headder an they connect each other.  Or, in baseball sliding head first into a knee or taking one off the head.  So, what do they want all sports with a certain amount of glory comes at a cost.

Why do some of you do this. Why can't you just admit that there are far more head injuries/concussions in football than other sports? I have umpired well over 1000 baseball games counting all levels and never see one concussion. Does not mean they do not happen occasionally in baseball, but not nearly at the rate they do in football.

And why do so many get so enraged every time a study comes out about head trauma in football? No one is trying to take the game away from you.

My kid stopped playing after the 9th grade. He loved playing the game. He hated having to give each day of the year to football. They had before-school practice, after-school practice, summer workouts (except the 2 weeks the AAA makes coaches take off) and the inability to be able to fully involve themselves in other sports (because coaches these days are selfish and want the athletes all to themselves).


That was the big thing for my kid. He loves baseball, and football was going to interfere with that.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: hogsanity on November 10, 2017, 08:24:34 am
I can't speak about nationwide trends but what I'm seeing at the middle school level with my own son is two things happening. 1) There are parents who don't want their boys risking a head injury, and they are not participating in football. 2) The demand in sports like soccer and baseball that you be committed to playing year-round is out of hand. Our pediatrician has told us that he's seeing a lot of repetitive stress injuries and Tommy John surgeries on teenagers that he didn't used to see. A number of kids are playing other sports in the fall now instead of football. There are already schools at the middle school level that have fielded teams in the past, but aren't now. Some are joining up with other schools to field a team and some just aren't participating.

Football is just as bad about being year round. As someone else posted above coaches want them for off season workouts, 7 on 7 tournaments if they are skill players, team camps, individual camps, speed camps, and on and on. 

Have you been to any younger kids sporting events on Saturdays lately. They are FULL of parents that are there to watch their kids play.

Yea I am there just about every Saturday. I did not say no one was there, what I said was that often, when parents decide not to put their kids in sports, it is because it interferes with what the parents want to do.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: bphi11ips on November 10, 2017, 08:24:39 am
I can't speak about nationwide trends but what I'm seeing at the middle school level with my own son is two things happening. 1) There are parents who don't want their boys risking a head injury, and they are not participating in football. 2) The demand in sports like soccer and baseball that you be committed to playing year-round is out of hand. Our pediatrician has told us that he's seeing a lot of repetitive stress injuries and Tommy John surgeries on teenagers that he didn't used to see. A number of kids are playing other sports in the fall now instead of football. There are already schools at the middle school level that have fielded teams in the past, but aren't now. Some are joining up with other schools to field a team and some just aren't participating.

Who doesn't think that competing professional sports at the highest level aren't going to do all they can do to kill football?  Soccer obviously has the most to gain.  Nashville just approved a $250,000,000 soccer stadium.  The most valuable franchise in soccer worldwide is worth almost twice what the most valuable NFL team is worth according to Forbes. 

Here's what I know - high school football playoffs are here in middle Tennessee.  There is nothing that generates student interest like a football game. 
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Knot2brite on November 10, 2017, 08:30:26 am
Someone you would all recognize immediately developed dementia recently and has concluded it was induced by football.  He played in the pros.  He called one of his oldest friends, who you would also recognize immediately, and asked him to do something about it. 

I think it would be a mistake not to teach kids before they reach middle school how to tackle with proper form.  My experience has been that middle school coaches are history teachers who are not nearly as motivated or knowledgeable as fathers with a vested interest.  The key is education and supervision at the youth level.  It works.
So much horseshit in that last paragraph...I teach four AP history classes AND Coach football AND spend 50 percent of my time teaching kids how to tackle properly. Fathers with a vested interest are teaching kids to bulldog tackle and lead with their heads to to suck it up when their kids are obviously hurt. Daddy football scares the piss out of me because they aren't professionals. They don't have a clue about how to test for a concussion and all they care about is that their kid gets his reps and wins. Our school is moving to start a youth football league and having our staff teach the coaches how to teach proper technique so the kids will not get hurt and learn properly. Yeah my motivation is fine...I work 12-14 hour days during the season coaching football from grades 7-12 for less money than most people spend on a summer vacation weekend on the redneck riviera ....
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: hogsanity on November 10, 2017, 08:37:22 am
So much horseshit in that last paragraph...I teach four AP history classes AND Coach football AND spend 50 percent of my time teaching kids how to tackle properly. Fathers with a vested interest are teaching kids to bulldog tackle and lead with their heads to to suck it up when their kids are obviously hurt. Daddy football scares the piss out of me because they aren't professionals. They don't have a clue about how to test for a concussion and all they care about is that their kid gets his reps and wins. Our school is moving to start a youth football league and having our staff teach the coaches how to teach proper technique so the kids will not get hurt and learn properly. Yeah my motivation is fine...I work 12-14 hour days during the season coaching football from grades 7-12 for less money than most people spend on a summer vacation weekend on the redneck riviera ....

Tackle football should not start until 7th grade. Then the school coaches would not have to deal with all the bad habits kids learn form all the wanna be Saban coaching tackle to kids as young as 5 yrs old.

It cracks me up when I go to call youth ball on a Saturday and see 3rd graders with armband play cards and they are tying to run hunh 5 wide. No joke I did a game where one team threw 58 passes and completed FIVE. 4th grade game took 2hrs 30 mins because the "coach" thought he was Gus ( complete with windmilling arms trying to get them to hurry up ).
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Knot2brite on November 10, 2017, 08:40:34 am
Tackle football should not start until 7th grade. Then the school coaches would not have to deal with all the bad habits kids learn form all the wanna be Saban coaching tackle to kids as young as 5 yrs old.

It cracks me up when I go to call youth ball on a Saturday and see 3rd graders with armband play cards and they are tying to run hunh 5 wide. No joke I did a game where one team threw 58 passes and completed FIVE. 4th grade game took 2hrs 30 mins because the "coach" thought he was Gus ( complete with windmilling arms trying to get them to hurry up ).
Completely agree football should not start until they are in the 7th grade
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: HoginMemphis on November 10, 2017, 09:32:00 am
So much horseshit in that last paragraph...I teach four AP history classes AND Coach football AND spend 50 percent of my time teaching kids how to tackle properly. Fathers with a vested interest are teaching kids to bulldog tackle and lead with their heads to to suck it up when their kids are obviously hurt. Daddy football scares the piss out of me because they aren't professionals. They don't have a clue about how to test for a concussion and all they care about is that their kid gets his reps and wins. Our school is moving to start a youth football league and having our staff teach the coaches how to teach proper technique so the kids will not get hurt and learn properly. Yeah my motivation is fine...I work 12-14 hour days during the season coaching football from grades 7-12 for less money than most people spend on a summer vacation weekend on the redneck riviera ....
So he was right about middle school coaches being history teachers! :D ;D

You need to call Bielema and tell him you are available to teach his defense how to tackle. They cannot do it very well.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Knot2brite on November 10, 2017, 09:51:29 am
So he was right about middle school coaches being history teachers! :D ;D

You need to call Bielema and tell him you are available to teach his defense how to tackle. They cannot do it very well.
The amount of time I spend screaming at the tv about our tackling is enormous
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: Dumb ole famrboy on November 10, 2017, 01:17:53 pm
But we don't Know what the base line occurrence of chronic traumatic encephalopathy is for the general population. I am sure it is higher for the population that participated in football but unless I have missed it - we still don't know what normal is.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: IronHog on November 10, 2017, 01:19:46 pm
Completely agree football should not start until they are in the 7th grade


I had one of those Lawrence Taylor face masks in pee wee


Stick it in people’s ear hole and they went OUT
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: PorkRyan on November 10, 2017, 01:37:09 pm
So much horseshit in that last paragraph...I teach four AP history classes AND Coach football AND spend 50 percent of my time teaching kids how to tackle properly. Fathers with a vested interest are teaching kids to bulldog tackle and lead with their heads to to suck it up when their kids are obviously hurt. Daddy football scares the piss out of me because they aren't professionals. They don't have a clue about how to test for a concussion and all they care about is that their kid gets his reps and wins. Our school is moving to start a youth football league and having our staff teach the coaches how to teach proper technique so the kids will not get hurt and learn properly. Yeah my motivation is fine...I work 12-14 hour days during the season coaching football from grades 7-12 for less money than most people spend on a summer vacation weekend on the redneck riviera ....

I agree with you, the issue is with youth football.  My son played youth football for 3 seasons.  The first season I took him off the team 3 weeks into it.  Idiot coach ran the Oklahoma drill all day and used the big kids to "toughen" up the little kids.  Two years later we tried again and it was just as bad.  Moved him to another organization two years later and he had a good experience and developed a liking for football and ended up transferring to that school district.  He is now a 10th grader and has played since 7th grade.  The Jr high and High school experience has been great.  We are lucky he is still playing after the terrible youth experiences he had.  Football prior to 7th grade has no purpose.   Some of our best players in his class never played youth football.     
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: hogsanity on November 10, 2017, 01:39:51 pm
I agree with you, the issue is with youth football.  My son played youth football for 3 seasons.  The first season I took him off the team 3 weeks into it.  Idiot coach ran the Oklahoma drill all day and used the big kids to "toughen" up the little kids.  Two years later we tried again and it was just as bad.  Moved him to another organization two years later and he had a good experience and developed a liking for football and ended up transferring to that school district.  He is now a 10th grader and has played since 7th grade.  The Jr high and High school experience has been great.  We are lucky he is still playing after the terrible youth experiences he had.  Football prior to 7th grade has no purpose.   Some of our best players in his class never played youth football.     

When we went to the pre season meet and greet with my older son before 7th grade football started the coach asked us if he had played before. We said no, and the coach said good we wont have to take time to break bad habits.
Title: Re: Recent medical articles on demise of tackle football
Post by: elviscat on November 11, 2017, 09:23:38 am
Go see the movie "Concussion" and you will see that football should be stopped. The game is not worth the consequences. We can find better ways to entertain ourselves. How many of you guys played football and had your globe smoked? I did and I remember how bad it was. I can prove that I'm a man with out playing football.