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General Sports Discussion => General Sports => Topic started by: rhog1 on October 05, 2017, 10:11:37 am

Title: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: rhog1 on October 05, 2017, 10:11:37 am
https://twitter.com/_andrewcarter/status/915928036775735298

Final Report from the COI including penalties coming tomorrow at noon teleconference at 1 est time.

Time for the NCAA to either roll over or show it has the guts to punish one of its powerhouses.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: Kevin on October 05, 2017, 11:03:05 am
I see light penalties for unc
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: FineAsSwine on October 05, 2017, 11:08:02 am
I see light penalties for unc

If so, I would like to see the FBI literally police college sports full time for five or ten years. No need for taxpayer money, just take a percentage of TV revenues.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: Ironhawg on October 05, 2017, 11:08:35 am
I'd be shocked if they get anything more than a sternly worded warning.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: rhog1 on October 05, 2017, 11:08:51 am
I see light penalties for unc

Truthfully I do too. It is suspicious that they are announcing on a Friday before a football weekend so the news will get buried quickly.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: FineAsSwine on October 05, 2017, 11:10:49 am
I'd be shocked if they get anything more than a sternly worded warning.

The warning will be ghost written by Roy Williams under a pseudonym.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: MB Hog on October 05, 2017, 11:20:54 am
I see UNC just got a 5-star commitment today.  6-6 small forward, Nasir Little.  ESPN has him ranked #14 in the class.  Could be a sign that a hand slap is expected.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: Ironhawg on October 05, 2017, 11:25:02 am
Honestly if UNC gets away with a hand slap I think the time has come to do away with the NCAA and form another organization that actually works for all members.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: King Kong on October 05, 2017, 11:31:07 am
NCAA was very harsh in their response to UNC's position.

Let's see if they follow through. I have my doubts after I thought Louisville got off pretty unscathed for their hooker scandal
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: rhog1 on October 05, 2017, 12:21:28 pm
Due to scheduling circumstances, there will be no release tomorrow regarding the NCAA Committee on Infractions decision. We have not yet received the Committeeís public infractions report. We anticipate we will be informed 24 hours prior to the actual release at a later date.Ē
Ė Vice Chancellor of University Communications Joel Curran, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

Looks like tomorrow release is off now.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: HoopS on October 05, 2017, 12:33:59 pm
The NCAA is so mad they may place UNC Greensboro under probation.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: Hogimus Prime on October 05, 2017, 12:46:24 pm
I'd love to see a school like UNC get the death penalty.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: hogwood on October 05, 2017, 01:27:12 pm
I see UNC just got a 5-star commitment today.  6-6 small forward, Nasir Little.  ESPN has him ranked #14 in the class.  Could be a sign that a hand slap is expected.

I am surprised at that. I thought Nassir was perhaps a player mixed up in the FBI probe in connection to the recruiter at Arizona. He was also on that shady trip to Aruba with Reggie Perry, EJ Montgomery, and many others that was "sponsored" by Adidas.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: Hog_Swanson on October 05, 2017, 11:14:56 pm
book mark
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: Sow Lancelot on October 07, 2017, 07:06:09 am
Honestly if UNC gets away with a hand slap I think the time has come to do away with the NCAA and form another organization that actually works for all members.
This
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: The ColonelHog on October 07, 2017, 10:43:51 am
Look for the FB team to be the sacrificial lamb.  It will lose multiple scholis while the B.B. team MIGHT lose 1!  Heard it here first!
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: HogFoo on October 07, 2017, 11:00:54 am
I really dislike these turds.  Especially after the way we were screwed in March madness to them!  I thought they were quite arrogant in their arguments to the NCaa about their cheating.  As far back as this case went 18yrs supposedly!  And as much money that was spent on this case , if the Ncaaonly gives UNC a slap, then it should just quit doing anything because it is a complete joke!  They deserve no post season, NC trophy erased,  a lot of schollies cut, leave them with about 5 and the rest walkons, that'll send a message to basketball.  No TV would be great as well. What would hurt them most is to hurt their basketball team, cuz they have nothing else other than field hockey.  Seems like they had a good baseball team that got ousted. But other than that, nothing. Again , they deserve to have all this happen to them, let us hope that they get it!  Because if they dont, it'll just prove that you can get away with a lot.  I could see how with what happened with the FBI, that in light of that, that perhaps the NCAA will bring the hammer!  But, we'll just have to wait and see.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: HognitiveDissonance on October 07, 2017, 12:43:23 pm
I expect UNC to get hit fairly hard.
I share the same skepticism since this is a true blue-blood program, but I do think they will get hit with fairly significant penalties.
The kicker will be if they have to miss the NCAA for one or more years. For an elite program, that is a real punishment, since they're in it every year.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: Hoggish1 on October 07, 2017, 01:20:24 pm
I see light penalties for unc

No, heavy penalties.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: rhog1 on October 07, 2017, 03:03:34 pm
They really deserve the death penalty. This is the largest academic cheating scandal of all time, and it was for multiple sports.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: Inhogswetrust on October 08, 2017, 05:37:56 am
Truthfully I do too. It is suspicious that they are announcing on a Friday before a football weekend so the news will get buried quickly.

There are 364 other days in the year and someone would find it suspicious if they announced it on any of those................
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: PharmacistHog on October 08, 2017, 07:36:55 am
The NCAA is so mad they may place UNC Greensboro under probation.

How original.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: HoopS on October 08, 2017, 10:51:27 am
How original.
true. But we will see if UNC catches what they should.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: rhog1 on October 12, 2017, 10:07:37 am
https://twitter.com/jgravleyWRAL/status/918491997027135488
Multiple sources tell me the COI will release their findings on @UNC NCAA investigation tomorrow. Friday the 13th. #wral.

From a North Carolina sportscaster seems like tomorrow is finally the day.
Title: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: rhog1 on October 13, 2017, 07:56:55 am
https://scout.com/college/north-carolina/Article/Podcast-Greg-Jason-Preview-UNC-vs-Virginia-108827613

In a little over an hour we will find out if the NCAA has the balls to punish UNC.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: Hogs run wild on October 13, 2017, 08:25:13 am
would they strip this year's natty?
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: rhog1 on October 13, 2017, 09:05:01 am
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/infractions-panel-could-not-conclude-academic-violations-north-carolina-case

Getting off scott free it sounds like. NCAA has no power.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: PonderinHog on October 13, 2017, 09:08:12 am
Cool story!   :puke:
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: rhog1 on October 13, 2017, 09:09:53 am
Reading through it Nothing but a show cause for one staffer no penalties for UNC.  NCAA is dropping the case. Color me shocked. :puke:
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: Karma on October 13, 2017, 09:10:56 am
So technically, they are announcing no punishment for UNC.

The schools don't even have to pretend to educate athletes anymore.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: rhog1 on October 13, 2017, 09:12:42 am
So technically, they are announcing no punishment for UNC.

The schools don't even have to pretend to educate athletes anymore.
Yeah. Lets all set up fake classes. Apparently the NCAA has no problems with it as long as you allow non athletes to take them too. 
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: azhog10 on October 13, 2017, 09:28:54 am
And they wonder why the FBI didn't let them know about their investigation. NCAA is just as crooked as the shoe companies bribing the athletes.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: mhuff on October 13, 2017, 09:46:49 am
And they wonder why the FBI didn't let them know about their investigation. NCAA is just as crooked as the shoe companies bribing the athletes.
Row inthe rating services
That's my take. School Presidents need to ban together and form another organization. Something is rotten in Denmark, and it all has to do with money. Throw in the rating services as well.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: 311Hog on October 13, 2017, 09:51:12 am
who didn't see this coming? i sure did they used Kentucky's loop hole.

Because "other non athlete students benefited" it is not an infraction.  This is just like Kentucky letting student managers for the bball team live in the Basketball player "Lodge".

the NCAA only cares about specific benefits exclusively for the athlete.  If the school spreads the wealth to even 1 non athlete student then they pass the buck to the "academic" side to punish or not to punish for "academic fraud" and well that will be a long wait for a boat that won't come they are not going to punish each other for something like "providing easy courses so people stay enrolled".

Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: Atlhogfan1 on October 13, 2017, 09:53:40 am
Row inthe rating services
That's my take. School Presidents need to ban together and form another organization. Something is rotten in Denmark, and it all has to do with money. Throw in the rating services as well.

Schools are complicit. UNC wouldn't cooperate because they didn't have to since the NCAA has no subpoena power.  The NCAA only has the power its members give it.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: Boss Hog in the Arkansas on October 13, 2017, 10:00:24 am
FBI will be putting this on their to do list
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: Boss Hog in the Arkansas on October 13, 2017, 10:14:39 am
NCAA rulings that make you scratch your head:
- Suspended DeVier Posey for 5 games over $3.07
- Suspended USF kicker for making money off of his own youtube channel that was established before he went to college
- Wont penalize UNC for putting athletes in classes that never met (didn't exist)
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: Boss Hog in the Arkansas on October 13, 2017, 10:16:04 am
This whole case shows that a scholarship doesn't always equal an education. That means the NCAA's entire "student athlete" system is based on a lie
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: Atlhogfan1 on October 13, 2017, 10:16:57 am
NCAA rulings that make you scratch your head:
- Suspended DeVier Posey for 5 games over $3.07
- Suspended USF kicker for making money off of his own youtube channel that was established before he went to college
- Wont penalize UNC for putting athletes in classes that never met (didn't exist)

Barely punished Penn St for covering up child rape including the head coach. 
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: 311Hog on October 13, 2017, 10:27:59 am
NCAA rulings that make you scratch your head:
- Suspended DeVier Posey for 5 games over $3.07
- Suspended USF kicker for making money off of his own youtube channel that was established before he went to college
- Wont penalize UNC for putting athletes in classes that never met (didn't exist)

you can see it in your examples.  NCAA basically said if you do not restrict the privilege or benefit to athletes then there is nothing to see here.

This is of course the benefit provided by the school. 

So build all the fancy dorms you want as long as at least one token non athlete lives there it is no problem.  Become the Graduate school destination for people who want to major in underwater basketweaving as long as the courses are not restricted to athletes only.

It is sad, it is basically more of the "online/sham" universities turning something that once meant something into nothing.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: King Kong on October 13, 2017, 10:30:15 am
Meh, it was a really hard leg to stand on for NCAA. Not all higher education's are an even playing ground as is. Really it's up to the school to decide their standard of education. It's a shame UNC has decided to lower theirs.

NCAA had a strong response letter back to UNC. Because of that I thought they may make a statement...... and they did. They are powerless
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: N HOG on October 13, 2017, 10:46:25 am
Nothing very complicated about this.

Money talks -- and really strongly with the pathetic NCAA.

Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: Boss Hog in the Arkansas on October 13, 2017, 11:01:05 am
you can see it in your examples.  NCAA basically said if you do not restrict the privilege or benefit to athletes then there is nothing to see here.

This is of course the benefit provided by the school. 

So build all the fancy dorms you want as long as at least one token non athlete lives there it is no problem.  Become the Graduate school destination for people who want to major in underwater basketweaving as long as the courses are not restricted to athletes only.

It is sad, it is basically more of the "online/sham" universities turning something that once meant something into nothing.
Are you saying my degree from DeVry was a waste of time?!  :)
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: Kevin on October 13, 2017, 11:15:54 am
not surprised. they were not going to take down another acc/icon school. ncaa is a sham. every president & athletic director should be pissed at this ruling.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: HamIAm on October 13, 2017, 11:33:23 am
what a load of horse crap
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: N HOG on October 13, 2017, 11:42:50 am
Based on their ruling, could a school give every basketball signee $100k as long as they also give the same amount to the water boy?

Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: BannerMountainMan on October 13, 2017, 01:19:27 pm
https://twitter.com/boettger_eli/status/918859772807454720
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: cram224 on October 13, 2017, 02:20:26 pm
UNC spent $18M to defend their case. Money talks.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: 10thPlanet on October 13, 2017, 02:42:37 pm
UNC spent $18M to defend their case. Money talks.
Damn.....
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: Kevin on October 13, 2017, 02:43:24 pm
https://sports.yahoo.com/north-carolina-ruling-proves-ncaa-useless-162457632.html
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: Kevin on October 13, 2017, 02:47:15 pm
funny that the sec commissioner was the head of the committee. guess he was afraid of repercussions from the acc.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: Kevin on October 13, 2017, 02:50:28 pm
after today's ruling, time to set up a fake degree, put all the athletes in it, and a few common students. the ncaa says that is legal
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: WooPigFarm on October 13, 2017, 02:56:18 pm
I want to thank all the people in charge of this decision! I am inspired by their leadership!

To the adults in that room -  you proved things can be done the right way!

Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: sickboy on October 13, 2017, 03:04:18 pm
https://twitter.com/boettger_eli/status/918859772807454720

Yikes. I guess give the kid credit for not plagiarizing. But seriously, that's an education system that has failed that kid. And when he doesn't make millions in football or basketball, he's screwed.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: Inhogswetrust on October 13, 2017, 04:29:27 pm
Ever since Emmert became the head of the NCAA it has become a paper tiger in enforcement and penalties.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: perfectgame on October 13, 2017, 07:33:39 pm
there may not have been an advantage between unc ath and unc students. but theres damn sure one over other ncaa schools that dont do that bs!!
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: hogwood on October 13, 2017, 08:05:18 pm
https://twitter.com/boettger_eli/status/918859772807454720

What a joke. What these kids need is to actually go to college, not even play basketball. Their lives might be better off. Jesus.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: Ironhawg on October 13, 2017, 09:57:47 pm
It's time for the crooked NCAA to go bye bye.  If we're going to have student athletes, they need to be student athletes.  No respect for the NCAA after this.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: greasy_corner on October 13, 2017, 10:00:16 pm
after today's ruling, time to set up a fake degree, put all the athletes in it, and a few common students. the ncaa says that is legal

Why punish the kids?  Let UNC swim in their own darn.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: greasy_corner on October 13, 2017, 10:03:16 pm
UNC spent $18M to defend their case. Money talks.

Lot's of UNC fans beating their chest today.  They won!  Or did they?  Pretty sad.

I think the amount of money the NCAA gets from the UNC Bball team (via the tourney) played the largest role in this decision. 
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: OS2 (SW) Razor Back on October 13, 2017, 11:09:44 pm
Go get em G-men!!!!
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: tncbg on October 14, 2017, 08:58:48 am
Follow the money. The NCAA has no incentive to bite the hand that feeds it. Collegiate sports is a money machine and the NCAA is one of the benefactors. Time to drop the student athlete pretense, at least for male football and basketball players. Itís up to the kids and their parents to make certain the kid graduates. There are plenty of athletes who get degrees and value the opportunity to do so. North Carolina just showed the world that they place no value on educating athletes, just use them and throw them away. The message is that the kids are too stupid to do real work, so just find a way to keep them eligible. Pitiful
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: Kevin on October 14, 2017, 10:30:45 am
https://sports.yahoo.com/north-carolina-blows-ncaa-smithereens-embarrassing-academic-fraud-defense-010926838.html
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: onebadrubi on October 14, 2017, 11:26:54 am
Ever since Emmert became the head of the NCAA it has become a paper tiger in enforcement and penalties.

I've said it many times on here, Emmert is a scam.  Look at his history, he wrecks everywhere he's been!!!  He is the definition of a DA and you alwasy wonder how he gets his jobs. 
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: HamIAm on October 14, 2017, 03:54:13 pm
I think someone has been messing with his wikipedia page.

Quote
Mark Allen Emmert (born December 16, 1952) is the current president of the National Collegiate Athletic Association and executive consultant for the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: HognitiveDissonance on October 16, 2017, 11:39:44 pm
https://sports.yahoo.com/north-carolina-ruling-proves-ncaa-useless-162457632.html
Yep. Glad national pundits see this and the NCAA for what it is.
I'll admit when I'm wrong. I was confident UNC would get hit with something significant on this.
My opinion on UNC has also changed overnight. They used to be one of my favorite programs, but not anymore. Even while beating Ark three straight NCAA appearances, my opinion on UNC was not affected; as long as it's fair and square I respect it.
But in this case UNC has shown an Auburn-like ability to lawyer-up, tap-dance, and exploit every loophole known to man in order to win more games. And that's when my respect is lost.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: HoopS on October 17, 2017, 09:20:24 am
Imagine that. Unc didnít get drilled.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: HoopS on October 17, 2017, 09:22:13 am
How original.
but of course they didnít hit them. That was the point. Kentucky wonít get hit either. Or Duke.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: 311Hog on October 17, 2017, 09:26:44 am
but of course they didnít hit them. That was the point. Kentucky wonít get hit either. Or Duke.
you have to hope that their academic reputation suffers.  I found it interesting that they changed their story AFTER their accreditation hearings were completed.  There has to be some kind of investigation into that. 

I mean i doubt it because everything seems to have devolved into a money grab these days.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: The ColonelHog on October 17, 2017, 10:44:10 am
Yeah. Lets all set up fake classes. Apparently the NCAA has no problems with it as long as you allow non athletes to take them too.

I really didnít care about or pay attention to the UNC stuff but after reading the facts of the case, they shouldnít have gotten any penalties.  It was an NCAA witch hunt!  Since when has the NCAA dictated to ANY University what courses they can or canít teach?  The course has been taught at UNC for years, itís in the course catalog, and is open to and taken by any UNC student.  Have you looked at UAís course catalog?  There are plenty of bird courses listed in it!  Much ado over nothing!
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: 311Hog on October 17, 2017, 10:52:44 am
I really didnít care about or pay attention to the UNC stuff but after reading the facts of the case, they shouldnít have gotten any penalties.  It was an NCAA witch hunt!  Since when has the NCAA dictated to ANY University what courses they can or canít teach?  The course has been taught at UNC for years, itís in the course catalog, and is open to and taken by any UNC student.  Have you looked at UAís course catalog?  There are plenty of bird courses listed in it!  Much ado over nothing!

while yes i agree about the NCAA, i am fairly certain there are no courses in the UA catalog that you do not have to attend any classes and all you have to do is turn in two papers that a 5th grader would laugh at.

There are governing bodies that "accredit" institutions of higher learning. During those hearings UNC admitted that these classes were wrong, but still it speaks directly to this bogus idea that these kids "get a free education" and therefore have no claim to the millions and millions of dollars they are directly responsible for,  no they don't get educated except in exploitation they get a useless piece of paper.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: onebadrubi on October 17, 2017, 10:55:26 am
I really didnít care about or pay attention to the UNC stuff but after reading the facts of the case, they shouldnít have gotten any penalties.  It was an NCAA witch hunt!  Since when has the NCAA dictated to ANY University what courses they can or canít teach?  The course has been taught at UNC for years, itís in the course catalog, and is open to and taken by any UNC student.  Have you looked at UAís course catalog?  There are plenty of bird courses listed in it!  Much ado over nothing!

The class was setup for athletes to sign up for and have to spend a total of 10 minutes a semester doing.  That is a negative by what the NCAA stands for. 
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: 311Hog on October 17, 2017, 11:00:33 am
The class was setup for athletes to sign up for and have to spend a total of 10 minutes a semester doing.  That is a negative by what the NCAA stands for. 

Right but luckily for them they did not prevent non athletes from taking the classes and thus removing the "exclusively" for athletes part it is the Kentucky Lodge loop hole.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: onebadrubi on October 17, 2017, 11:08:09 am
Right but luckily for them they did not prevent non athletes from taking the classes and thus removing the "exclusively" for athletes part it is the Kentucky Lodge loop hole.

That's because they wanted them to get off.  The good thing about the NCAA is they can make it up as they go, but they don't have any integrity or really care about what they were founded for.  The right thing to do was punish UNC for this, they did nothing because UNC is a national spotlight team. 

So by definition, we could have a local business pay athletes on his pay roll for not working so long as he pays "regular" students? 
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: 311Hog on October 17, 2017, 11:42:51 am
That's because they wanted them to get off.  The good thing about the NCAA is they can make it up as they go, but they don't have any integrity or really care about what they were founded for.  The right thing to do was punish UNC for this, they did nothing because UNC is a national spotlight team. 

So by definition, we could have a local business pay athletes on his pay roll for not working so long as he pays "regular" students? 

Something like that yeah, though i think payment is a problem that strays from this loophole.  As i believe it doesn't matter athlete non athlete when "paid" by an outside the School source for non work.

More like golf cart shuttle service for athletes but the tutors can also use them, or like Kentucky a giant luxurious dorm with every amenity you can imagine that houses "mostly" UK basketball players but also has non athlete managers etc. and thus it wasn't built exclusively for the athlete.

That is all they are there to try and "stop" is schools building and doing things that could be called "extra" benefits exclusive for their use.

Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: onebadrubi on October 17, 2017, 11:56:55 am
Something like that yeah, though i think payment is a problem that strays from this loophole.  As i believe it doesn't matter athlete non athlete when "paid" by an outside the School source for non work.

More like golf cart shuttle service for athletes but the tutors can also use them, or like Kentucky a giant luxurious dorm with every amenity you can imagine that houses "mostly" UK basketball players but also has non athlete managers etc. and thus it wasn't built exclusively for the athlete.

That is all they are there to try and "stop" is schools building and doing things that could be called "extra" benefits exclusive for their use.

There is nothing wrong with a local business paying 6 students from the U of A?  Working or not? 
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: 311Hog on October 17, 2017, 12:02:54 pm
There is nothing wrong with a local business paying 6 students from the U of A?  Working or not? 

my understanding is if 6 students 3 athletes 3 non athletes are paid the same for the same "work" then yeah NCAA probably would not say anything though the involvement of cash would complicate it more than an "ancillary" benefit like a blow off class or building access would.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: The ColonelHog on October 17, 2017, 01:09:27 pm
while yes i agree about the NCAA, i am fairly certain there are no courses in the UA catalog that you do not have to attend any classes and all you have to do is turn in two papers that a 5th grader would laugh at.

There are governing bodies that "accredit" institutions of higher learning. During those hearings UNC admitted that these classes were wrong, but still it speaks directly to this bogus idea that these kids "get a free education" and therefore have no claim to the millions and millions of dollars they are directly responsible for,  no they don't get educated except in exploitation they get a useless piece of paper.

Are you sure?  Music and Art appreciation is in the catalog and the syllabus doesnít mention writing even one paper.  Swimming is in the catalog, no paper on that one either.  UNC did not admit the course was wrong, they admitted it was not properly overseen.  As a matter of fact, UA has a similar course.  So how is offering this particular course wrong?  Is it the subject matter?  News flash, most universities in America offer similar courses.  Now, itís up to the Prof to determine how rigorous the course is but it is obviously an acceptable course because it is not inherent to UNC.  Itís time to crawl out of the dark ages and open your mind to the fact that universities are more inclusive than ďthe south will rise againĒ Hog fan.  The course wasnít wrong, how it was administered to ALL students at UNC was not acceptable to UNC standards.  Thatís why the Prof is gone but the course is still offered!

And by the way, my son took art and music appreciation at UA but I donít consider his degree useless being that he is in UA Med School now after deciding between UA, Vanderbilt, and Stanford...  Each of which he was accepted in.  So be careful when you call a degree a worthless piece of paper because you donít like a particular course thatís being taught.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: 311Hog on October 17, 2017, 01:16:07 pm
Are you sure?  Music and Art appreciation is in the catalog and the syllabus doesnít mention writing even one paper.  Swimming is in the catalog, no paper on that one either.  UNC did not admit the course was wrong, they admitted it was not properly overseen.  As a matter of fact, UA has a similar course.  So how is offering this particular course wrong?  Is it the subject matter?  News flash, most universities in America offer similar courses.  Now, itís up to the Prof to determine how rigorous the course is but it is obviously an acceptable course because it is not inherent to UNC.  Itís time to crawl out of the dark ages and open your mind to the fact that universities are more inclusive than ďthe south will rise againĒ Hog fan.  The course wasnít wrong, how it was administered to ALL students at UNC was not acceptable to UNC standards.  Thatís why the Prof is gone but the course is still offered!

And by the way, my son took art and music appreciation at UA but I donít consider his degree useless being that he is in UA Med School now after deciding between UA, Vanderbilt, and Stanford...  Each of which he was accepted in.  So be careful when you call a degree a worthless piece of paper because you donít like a particular course thatís being taught.

it is a worthless piece of paper if the courses you took were basically a hodge podge of "easy classes" in order to get some "generic" diploma for being so condescending you would think you could keep your responses to the topic.  this isn't about your son who is obviously smart and did well in school taking a blow off elective.  The point is "steering" football players that are highly unlikely to even complete their degree into courses that will "keep them eligible" and the practice in general of floating these classes to keep students enrolled a bit longer.  And then trying to pass that off as a "valuable commodity" that justifies not paying the athlete any part of the millions they generate.

Universities are supposed to be hard, they are supposed to produce a valuable product.  And while they and most do, seeing things like this cannot be good for the person getting them nor the students who have degrees from the institution as often people are painted with a broad brush.  And it does nothing for this growing perception that higher education is just an extension of high school for those can afford/indebt themselves, with more parties.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: The ColonelHog on October 17, 2017, 01:18:51 pm
The class was setup for athletes to sign up for and have to spend a total of 10 minutes a semester doing.  That is a negative by what the NCAA stands for.

If all of us would slow down, pump the brakes, and take out our hatred for UNC, we could understand the ruling for what it is.  The NCAA infractions committee has ZERO legislation over what courses a university can offer.  The course in question is taught at universities across the nation.  It is on the Prof for not administering the course properly and got canned for it.  It was not set up for athletes, it was set up for all students as an elective!  Would you feel the same way about art or music appreciation?  Those are offered at UA and I specifically remember sitting in my sonís apartment after a ballgame before heading home with several of his friends laughing about what a joke both of those courses were.  The context of the conversation, they were comparing GPAs and picking on one guy because he got a B in one of them!
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: 311Hog on October 17, 2017, 01:23:40 pm
If all of us would slow down, pump the brakes, and take out our hatred for UNC, we could understand the ruling for what it is.  The NCAA infractions committee has ZERO legislation over what courses a university can offer.  The course in question is taught at universities across the nation.  It is on the Prof for not administering the course properly and got canned for it.  It was not set up for athletes, it was set up for all students as an elective!  Would you feel the same way about art or music appreciation?  Those are offered at UA and I specifically remember sitting in my sonís apartment after a ballgame before heading home with several of his friends laughing about what a joke both of those courses were.  The context of the conversation, they were comparing GPAs and picking on one guy because he got a B in one of them!

As i said before i agree mostly with your point but it is not zero.  The connection is the prof that you mention that did not "administer" the course properly.  That could have been by design i mean you said it yourself the course had been around for years, and everyone offers some form of it.  NCAA would absolutely have a right to investigate if the professor(s) was instructed to "administer" the class in such away exclusive to athletes THAT would have been a violation, instead others took the class no harm no foul, lawyers say thanks for the 18 mil  oh and the prof is the fall guy so sorry about that.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: The ColonelHog on October 17, 2017, 01:31:22 pm
it is a worthless piece of paper if the courses you took were basically a hodge podge of "easy classes" in order to get some "generic" diploma for being so condescending you would think you could keep your responses to the topic.  this isn't about your son who is obviously smart and did well in school taking a blow off elective.  The point is "steering" football players that are highly unlikely to even complete their degree into courses that will "keep them eligible" and the practice in general of floating these classes to keep students enrolled a bit longer.  And then trying to pass that off as a "valuable commodity" that justifies not paying the athlete any part of the millions they generate.

Universities are supposed to be hard, they are supposed to produce a valuable product.  And while they and most do, seeing things like this cannot be good for the person getting them nor the students who have degrees from the institution as often people are painted with a broad brush.  And it does nothing for this growing perception that higher education is just an extension of high school for those can afford/indebt themselves, with more parties.

I feel your pain but you are basing your argument on personal belief, not reality or fact.  Electives are in place for just that, a student can take any elective and it counts toward their degree because it meets the required hour threshold.  All college students take electives, they are in every course catalog at EVERY school.  So no sir, their degree is not disvalued because a choice of electives are required in order to get the degree.  So if you think most colleges are designed to be hard, you must also accept the fact that there are some electives at every school, that must be taken that are not.  Try swimming in for size, itís an elective offered in the UA catalog.  Guess who enroll in swimming their first semester?  The swim team!  So stop the holier than though crap and move into the 21st century....  Electives have always been a part of 4 year degrees and always will be.  Just because you donít like it doesnít make it wrong.  Sorry but I trust the academia more than I trust you when weighing what should be taught and colleges and what shouldnít.  The Prof who administered the course was lazy and was fired for it.  GOOD!  I would expect the same to happen at UA or any college.  There is nothing to see here folks!
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: onebadrubi on October 17, 2017, 01:37:31 pm
If all of us would slow down, pump the brakes, and take out our hatred for UNC, we could understand the ruling for what it is.  The NCAA infractions committee has ZERO legislation over what courses a university can offer.  The course in question is taught at universities across the nation.  It is on the Prof for not administering the course properly and got canned for it.  It was not set up for athletes, it was set up for all students as an elective!  Would you feel the same way about art or music appreciation?  Those are offered at UA and I specifically remember sitting in my sonís apartment after a ballgame before heading home with several of his friends laughing about what a joke both of those courses were.  The context of the conversation, they were comparing GPAs and picking on one guy because he got a B in one of them!

Sure, the U of A has it's share of underwater basket weaving courses, BUT!, Nutt and Petrino both had staff or GA's going from class to class such as Music appreciation taking role.  The students had to show up for these so called BS classes.   Petrino was much harsher on this than Nutt was.  Heath didn't care much and Phelphrey was extremely strict on this. But, no classes were setup at the U of A to explicitly give Athletes a passing grade so they could play sports and not have to worry about their class load.   
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: The ColonelHog on October 17, 2017, 01:41:43 pm
As i said before i agree mostly with your point but it is not zero.  The connection is the prof that you mention that did not "administer" the course properly.  That could have been by design i mean you said it yourself the course had been around for years, and everyone offers some form of it.  NCAA would absolutely have a right to investigate if the professor(s) was instructed to "administer" the class in such away exclusive to athletes THAT would have been a violation, instead others took the class no harm no foul, lawyers say thanks for the 18 mil  oh and the prof is the fall guy so sorry about that.

You are correct.  I retract zero.  If the course was being administered to solely benefit athletes, then it is a violation but that was not the finding.  The finding was that it was administered that way across the board.  My point is, if you think back to your college days, electives are basically easy and not only athletes, but students in general steer away from a hard Prof in selecting them because once they get into their core Q the courses get much harder depending on the field of study.  When I played, the Academic Advisor suggested which electives we should take because it gave us a chance to acclimate to college life and build a strong GPA before entering our core Q.  I donít see anything at all wrong with that.  What was wrong?  The Prof was lazy and incompetent and Iím sure a lot of schools have them, but that is not a NCAA violation.
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: 311Hog on October 17, 2017, 01:45:50 pm
I feel your pain but you are basing your argument on personal belief, not reality or fact.  Electives are in place for just that, a student can take any elective and it counts toward their degree because it meets the required hour threshold.  All college students take electives, they are in every course catalog at EVERY school.  So no sir, their degree is not disvalued because a choice of electives are required in order to get the degree.  So if you think most colleges are designed to be hard, you must also accept the fact that there are some electives at every school, that must be taken that are not.  Try swimming in for size, itís an elective offered in the UA catalog.  Guess who enroll in swimming their first semester?  The swim team!  So stop the holier than though crap and move into the 21st century....  Electives have always been a part of 4 year degrees and always will be.  Just because you donít like it doesnít make it wrong.  Sorry but I trust the academia more than I trust you when weighing what should be taught and colleges and what shouldnít.  The Prof who administered the course was lazy and was fired for it.  GOOD!  I would expect the same to happen at UA or any college.  There is nothing to see here folks!

You misunderstand.

1. I have nothing against electives. Legit college courses where you have to actually show up and something anything is taught.  Even the "easiest" of electives is of college level merit.  You mention music alot and swimming.  I would bet you had to go to class and at least swim to get credit there.  Not just sign up, never show up, and then turn in a paragraph paper that says "i swam some on the set of blue lagoon".
2. It isn't my personal belief we see this all time Trump University anyone? schools if you can call them this "preying" on desperate people.  I use the term desperate to cover alot of different types of people, you have people who are in dead end jobs and they are sold on the idea that a "diploma" will change that, you have student athletes that cannot make a living as an athlete because the rules say you have to be a certain age so good luck with that, kids fresh out of high school do not know ace from hole in the ground but what else can they do ? the world says k-12 you are pushed, then dropped off a cliff at 18 so here is college where all your friends are going to basically do high school again but better.

I mean if you know the level off administrative support student athletes receive at the UofA to get a meaningful degree it is amazing, it does sadden me to learn another "legit" school would use all those resources to steer kids to waste their time or pass the time until they are old enough to declare for the league or finally have to take harder classes for a real major and eventually struggle (or not).
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: The ColonelHog on October 17, 2017, 01:51:20 pm
Sure, the U of A has it's share of underwater basket weaving courses, BUT!, Nutt and Petrino both had staff or GA's going from class to class such as Music appreciation taking role.  The students had to show up for these so called BS classes.   Petrino was much harsher on this than Nutt was.  Heath didn't care much and Phelphrey was extremely strict on this. But, no classes were setup at the U of A to explicitly give Athletes a passing grade so they could play sports and not have to worry about their class load.

Have you forgotten the ruling in this case or are you just dead set on your UNC hatred.  The course WAS NOT set up for athletes!  It is a freakin elective!  If the Prof did not require attendance, which is obviously the case, what role is a GA gonna check if the Prof isnít there?  It has been determined that it didnít benefit athletes in a way it didnít benefit any other student who took it.  We donít live in a world of perfection.  Everyone donít do what an employer expect them to do.  Thatís why there are supervisors at every level of the workforce in America.  Many people are fired for not meeting expectations just like this Prof was so what is the big problem?  Geez Louise!
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: The ColonelHog on October 17, 2017, 02:04:26 pm
You misunderstand.

1. I have nothing against electives. Legit college courses where you have to actually show up and something anything is taught.  Even the "easiest" of electives is of college level merit.  You mention music alot and swimming.  I would bet you had to go to class and at least swim to get credit there.  Not just sign up, never show up, and then turn in a paragraph paper that says "i swam some on the set of blue lagoon".
2. It isn't my personal belief we see this all time Trump University anyone? schools if you can call them this "preying" on desperate people.  I use the term desperate to cover alot of different types of people, you have people who are in dead end jobs and they are sold on the idea that a "diploma" will change that, you have student athletes that cannot make a living as an athlete because the rules say you have to be a certain age so good luck with that, kids fresh out of high school do not know ace from hole in the ground but what else can they do ? the world says k-12 you are pushed, then dropped off a cliff at 18 so here is college where all your friends are going to basically do high school again but better.

I mean if you know the level off administrative support student athletes receive at the UofA to get a meaningful degree it is amazing, it does sadden me to learn another "legit" school would use all those resources to steer kids to waste their time or pass the time until they are old enough to declare for the league or finally have to take harder classes for a real major and eventually struggle (or not).

Very well stated!  I took courses, although it was a long time ago, where the Prof didnít require attendance but stated the first day, ďyou are responsible for doing the work and passing the test.Ē  We donít know how many Profs have that approach but I know UA has some because Iíve seen it first hand.  The UA academic support staff does a great job developing degree plans and ensuring athletes are on that track.  We know this much.  But what we canít say without a doubt is that all Profs at UA require their students to be sitting there or taking role of attendance.  Go back and look at the grad rate at UNC and their APR.  Its not deficient in any way.  The bottom line is that athletes are graduating from a school with UNC on top of their sheepskin!  A degree from UNC has not lost one ounce of validity or prestige due to this and it wonít....  it was an NCAA fishing expedition probably due to some kid saying ďhey look at thisĒ and in the end, there is nothing to see.  Was the Prof a piece of crap, I donít know, but I do know the Prof was lazy and unprofessional...
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: onebadrubi on October 17, 2017, 02:14:41 pm
Have you forgotten the ruling in this case or are you just dead set on your UNC hatred.  The course WAS NOT set up for athletes!  It is a freakin elective!  If the Prof did not require attendance, which is obviously the case, what role is a GA gonna check if the Prof isnít there?  It has been determined that it didnít benefit athletes in a way it didnít benefit any other student who took it.  We donít live in a world of perfection.  Everyone donít do what an employer expect them to do.  Thatís why there are supervisors at every level of the workforce in America.  Many people are fired for not meeting expectations just like this Prof was so what is the big problem?  Geez Louise!

Just keep being naive. 
Title: Re: UNC COI results and punishment.
Post by: hobhog on October 17, 2017, 11:37:17 pm
Notice they announce on a Friday so people won't notice. I didn't.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: The ColonelHog on October 19, 2017, 10:41:17 am
Just keep being naive.

Well, you can call it naive, but Iíve just never been big on conspiracy theories or have doomsday bunkers, tin foil hats, or spend my time watching the sky for aliens or preparing for the zombie apocalypse....  some things are what they are and the facts of the case are that other students took a course that is and has been listed in their course catalog for years, the NCAA canít regulate what courses a college offers, and the Prof didnít do any more for athletes that didnít occur with other students in the course. 

Nothing to see!  Just another NCAA witch hunt.
Title: Re: 9am today NCAA announces punishment for UNC.
Post by: onebadrubi on October 19, 2017, 10:51:31 am
Well, you can call it naive, but Iíve just never been big on conspiracy theories or have doomsday bunkers, tin foil hats, or spend my time watching the sky for aliens or preparing for the zombie apocalypse....  some things are what they are and the facts of the case are that other students took a course that is and has been listed in their course catalog for years, the NCAA canít regulate what courses a college offers, and the Prof didnít do any more for athletes that didnít occur with other students in the course. 

Nothing to see!  Just another NCAA witch hunt.

It's not a witch hunt when you have the athletic department steering kids to classes that don't involve actually doing anything, attending, or requiring anything more than slapping your name on a piece of paper twice to pass.  You want to compare this to the arkansas swim team taking a swimming?  Well, all of the BS classes are arkansas require attendance, daily attendance and the athletic department keeps up with it, that goes for Golf, Swim, music lecture, art lecture, geology, lab, welding, entomology, and there are many more at the u of a as well.  But the funny thing, they required attendance and more than submitting a piece of paper with your name on it to pass. 

Also, U of A athletes had to take core classes each year. 

Don't go to far out of your way to minimize this action.