Hogville

RB Sports Discussion => Monday Morning Quarterback => Topic started by: hawgon on October 05, 2017, 10:05:11 am

Title: Special teams disaster
Post by: hawgon on October 05, 2017, 10:05:11 am
Our best ranking in special teams categories is 9th in the conference in punting.  Every other category is between 11th and 14th in the conference.  We also rank dead last in the entire country in field goals.

Who is responsible for this?  His head needs to be on a platter.  We've lost games every single year of Bert's tenure because of special teams gaffes.  How can a ball control team be so bad at an area so critical to success in close games and road games? 
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: HogPharmer on October 05, 2017, 10:06:53 am
Well we're last in FGs because we're the only team in FBS to not have made a FG
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: GunnerHawg70 on October 05, 2017, 10:13:06 am
hawgon I wish that I had some facts to retort your post but you're right.  The only thing the boys do right is punt and punt coverage (so far). Definitely would love to see a RB back for KO returns and a more aggressive KO coverage team that has lane discipline.  WR's are too fragile, don't see running lanes quickly and can't break tackles.  Some teams have that homerun threat returning kicks (i.e. Kirk TAMU) but Hogs most successful KR's were RB's...Now Joe Adams was a hybrid like C. Kirk and the boys don't have that in the WR corps. Hope all that gets addressed in practice this week (including FG team)... 
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: hawgon on October 05, 2017, 10:19:32 am
hawgon I wish that I had some facts to retort your post but you're right.  The only thing the boys do right is punt and punt coverage (so far). Definitely would love to see a RB back for KO returns and a more aggressive KO coverage team that has lane discipline.  WR's are too fragile, don't see running lanes quickly and can't break tackles.  Some teams have that homerun threat returning kicks (i.e. Kirk TAMU) but Hogs most successful KR's were RB's...Now Joe Adams was a hybrid like C. Kirk and the boys don't have that in the WR corps. Hope all that gets addressed in practice this week (including FG team)...

It's pretty much been that way for Bert's entire tenure.  There is no reason to hope that it gets fixed in a week.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: GunnerHawg70 on October 05, 2017, 10:49:04 am
It's pretty much been that way for Bert's entire tenure.  There is no reason to hope that it gets fixed in a week.
Ugh...Well someone should tape a sim card to one of his associates parking signs full of KO highlights from D-Mac, Felix Jones, Knile Davis, Korliss Marshall, AC-3, and of course Dennis Johnson...I know we have the RB's to put at least one back there (incl Frosh Maleek Williams)...That piece should've been addressed in the FAMU or NMST game as a "let's see what happens" scenario.  just my two cents.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: hogz11 on October 05, 2017, 10:57:54 am
One would think Hammonds would get a shot at KR/PR..........then again we know he’s not necessarily 1st team “Uncommon” according to what we hear from reports.

Meanwhile, coaches continue to trot out some of the best fair catchers in the country.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: GunnerHawg70 on October 05, 2017, 11:04:29 am
One would think Hammonds would get a shot at KR/PR..........then again we know he’s not necessarily 1st team “Uncommon” according to what we hear from reports.

Meanwhile, coaches continue to trot out some of the best fair catchers in the country.
I can see TJ returning KO's but that PR thing I would rather have sure hands and fair catches all day long. The boys don't have a Joe Adams hybrid type, TJ is closest thing but why get him throttled?  If you noticed most teams don't out punt their coverage which doesn't give the PR any room to operate in space.  KO's is another thing - TJ could be the missing link and provide some excitement, much better returns and ball security. 
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: PorkRinds on October 05, 2017, 11:11:44 am
TJ is the new Korliss Marshall, minus the issue with Mary Jane. The fan answer to every problem is TJ and only TJ. If only the coaches could see. They've probably never thought of it and never tried him back there. They're not as smart as these keyboard coaches.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: PonderinHog on October 05, 2017, 11:13:18 am
I can see TJ returning KO's but that PR thing I would rather have sure hands and fair catches all day long. The boys don't have a Joe Adams hybrid type, TJ is closest thing but why get him throttled?  If you noticed most teams don't out punt their coverage which doesn't give the PR any room to operate in space.  KO's is another thing - TJ could be the missing link and provide some excitement, much better returns and ball security.
I kinda figured ball security is why he isn't doing KOR's.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: twistitup on October 05, 2017, 11:17:15 am
Special Teams have been an issue all the back to the Wisky days- fans there (just like here) were fed up w/ his terrible special teams play.....


just google his name and special teams
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: hogz11 on October 05, 2017, 11:21:40 am
TJ is the new Korliss Marshall, minus the issue with Mary Jane. The fan answer to every problem is TJ and only TJ. If only the coaches could see. They've probably never thought of it and never tried him back there. They're not as smart as these keyboard coaches.

Korliss>>JoJo Robinson>>Hammonds

I see a common trend.

Fire back all you want. Meanwhile the worst Razorback special teams in well over 20 years is being fielded. But hey, we’ll just keep trotting those “Uncommon” kids out there and hope for the best right?
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: LRHawg on October 05, 2017, 11:31:05 am
No reason to not have a special teams coordinator at this point, with all the creative ways to get people on staff. Bama probably has an entire team of post-grads dedicated to breaking down the psych profiles of the people that serve the players food, meanwhile we don't even care enough about special teams for it to have its own coach.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: GunnerHawg70 on October 05, 2017, 11:37:22 am
I kinda figured ball security is why he isn't doing KOR's.

Didn't know TJ had ball security issues...He's the closet thing to a WR/RB hybrid on the team that I know of.  I still think the kid should get a shot returning unless in practice he kept giving up gift packages on the return.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: ricepig on October 05, 2017, 11:37:27 am
Bielema does punt coverage, Anderson does FG, not the kickers, I don't know who does the other special teams. He's had it divided up since he has been here, although without great success. Our 10th assistant will be a special teams coach/recruiter, fwiw.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: DeltaBoy on October 05, 2017, 11:42:43 am
Sad
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: PorkRinds on October 05, 2017, 11:44:35 am
Korliss>>JoJo Robinson>>Hammonds

I see a common trend.

Fire back all you want. Meanwhile the worst Razorback special teams in well over 20 years is being fielded. But hey, we’ll just keep trotting those “Uncommon” kids out there and hope for the best right?

What's the trend?
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: Hoggish1 on October 05, 2017, 11:52:28 am
Our best ranking in special teams categories is 9th in the conference in punting.  Every other category is between 11th and 14th in the conference.  We also rank dead last in the entire country in field goals.

Who is responsible for this?  His head needs to be on a platter.  We've lost games every single year of Bert's tenure because of special teams gaffes.  How can a ball control team be so bad at an area so critical to success in close games and road games? 

Oh, look—another complaint.  Have you written to CBB to voice your displeasure?  He probably doesn't know there's a problem with special teams...
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: riccoar on October 05, 2017, 11:54:32 am
Just a question because I've not heard it asked.  Has Bielema given up on FG's for the season?
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: GunnerHawg70 on October 05, 2017, 11:56:53 am
Oh, look—another complaint.  Have you written to CBB to voice your displeasure?  He probably doesn't know there's a problem with special teams...

Oh look - another CBB slam and disgruntled HV member.  Can we please talk football???  I mean the topic is Special Teams and not trying to be a [CENSORED] but your post has nothing to do with Special Teams...C'mon maaaaaaaaan!!!  ;)
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: Ex-Trumpet on October 05, 2017, 11:57:35 am
Oh, look—another complaint.  Have you written to CBB to voice your displeasure?  He probably doesn't know there's a problem with special teams...

If he knows there's a problem, that proposes an even bigger problem because it's been going on for years.  Maybe it's time to drop a line on the other side of the boat.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: Pigsknuckles on October 05, 2017, 11:59:29 am
I kinda figured ball security is why he isn't doing KOR's.

Won't get into individual ball security concerns, but nothing makes my hiney pucker quite like watching one of our guys camp under a punt, or a KO return guy holding the ball away from his body. Several years back I dreaded any special teams play because we were so inconsistent. Even in light of recent fiasco's I feel much more confident in the Punt/KO areas. FG unit not so much. Ball security covers a multitude of sins.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: PonderinHog on October 05, 2017, 12:07:59 pm
Didn't know TJ had ball security issues...He's the closet thing to a WR/RB hybrid on the team that I know of.  I still think the kid should get a shot returning unless in practice he kept giving up gift packages on the return.
I  thought it came up last year on some of his carries.  Not that he actually lost any, but that he held on loosely, but didn't lose control. 

(Yes, there's a subliminal song reference in there.)   ;D
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: GunnerHawg70 on October 05, 2017, 12:14:01 pm
Won't get into individual ball security concerns, but nothing makes my hiney pucker quite like watching one of our guys camp under a punt, or a KO return guy holding the ball away from his body. Several years back I dreaded any special teams play because we were so inconsistent. Even in light of recent fiasco's I feel much more confident in the Punt/KO areas. FG unit not so much. Ball security covers a multitude of sins.

These guys were the best at the KOR skillset: D-Mac, Felix Jones, Knile Davis, Korliss Marshall, AC-3, and of course Dennis Johnson!!! Joe Adams (Hybrid type) was a Devon Hester type.  I'm telling ya the coaches need to see what one of the RB's (incl Maleek Williams) or TJ Hammonds can do on KOR...
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: Pigsknuckles on October 05, 2017, 12:16:15 pm
I  thought it came up last year on some of his carries.  Not that he actually lost any, but that he held on loosely, but didn't lose control. 

(Yes, there's a subliminal song reference in there.)   ;D

+1 for the 38 Special reference. :)
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: GunnerHawg70 on October 05, 2017, 12:16:27 pm
I  thought it came up last year on some of his carries.  Not that he actually lost any, but that he held on loosely, but didn't lose control. 

(Yes, there's a subliminal song reference in there.)   ;D

If I remember correctly that was only at the RB position...I think he could be a force multiplier at KOR's... (.38 Special BTW)... ;)
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: Pigsknuckles on October 05, 2017, 12:30:02 pm
These guys were the best at the KOR skillset: D-Mac, Felix Jones, Knile Davis, Korliss Marshall, AC-3, and of course Dennis Johnson!!! Joe Adams (Hybrid type) was a Devon Hester type.  I'm telling ya the coaches need to see what one of the RB's (incl Maleek Williams) or TJ Hammonds can do on KOR...

Lightning in a bottle every one. You just knew something great might happen anytime they touched the ball.
Got to meet Felix at a charity event last year in Tulsa.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: GunnerHawg70 on October 05, 2017, 12:34:14 pm
Lightning in a bottle every one. You just knew something great might happen anytime they touched the ball.
Got to meet Felix at a charity event last year in Tulsa.

So your honest opinion: What two Hogs (current) would you like to see as KOR x 2 going forward with this season???  I would go with TJ and Chase or Maleek. 
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: cjack on October 05, 2017, 12:35:07 pm
You will definitely be attacked by the sheep for questioning cellar dwelling level consistency.  Root for the Hogs, but be content with losing seasons.  Don't expect better than being 11-14 in the SEC.  CBB was not brought in to win football games. He was brought in to graduate more players than John L. did.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: GunnerHawg70 on October 05, 2017, 12:39:29 pm
You will definitely be attacked by the sheep for questioning cellar dwelling level consistency.  Root for the Hogs, but be content with losing seasons.  Don't expect better than being 11-14 in the SEC.  CBB was not brought in to win football games. He was brought in to graduate more players than John L. did.

Oh look - another CBB slam and disgruntled HV member.  Can we just talk football cjack??? Is it that hard to talk about the topic or do you just not know enough about Hog Ball to add some content and dialogue?!?!?  ???
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: jkstock04 on October 05, 2017, 12:47:38 pm
Just a question because I've not heard it asked.  Has Bielema given up on FG's for the season?
It's possible. After the TCU game he said we may just go for it on 4th down from now on.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: 12247 on October 05, 2017, 01:11:45 pm
TJ Hammonds, it is rumored, does not carry the ball correctly so correct him.  You know, coach him up.  If we have players on scholarship who are not producing, playing their damn level best and not fit to put on the field, it should be on the HC to remove them from the expenses of the football program.  No produce, no longer a football expense.  But of course, we couldn't expect Bret to think that way or hell, he couldn't stay himself and he would have to fire himself.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: Pigsknuckles on October 05, 2017, 01:23:37 pm
So your honest opinion: What two Hogs (current) would you like to see as KOR x 2 going forward with this season???  I would go with TJ and Chase or Maleek. 

I would prefer the WR's for the open field skills. Am reluctant to put Chase in harms way any more than he already is. Maleek might be more elusive.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: wendellgee on October 05, 2017, 01:29:23 pm
You will definitely be attacked by the sheep for questioning cellar dwelling level consistency.  Root for the Hogs, but be content with losing seasons.  Don't expect better than being 11-14 in the SEC.  CBB was not brought in to win football games. He was brought in to graduate more players than John L. did.
Hang in there. It's gonna get better cause he has a book on analytics.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: tbhogfan on October 05, 2017, 02:19:09 pm
Usually, a great PK is great on day 1.  Steve Little, Zach Hocker, Todd Wright, Todd Wright were all excellent immediately.  Hedlund was substandard on day one and was always battling walkons for the position.  The coaching staff should have recognized the fact that Hedlund wasn't going to make it and move on to other options.  There is no reason whatsoever that a Power Five team not have a PK who is nearly automatic from 30 yards in. 
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: ricepig on October 05, 2017, 02:22:44 pm
Usually, a great PK is great on day 1.  Steve Little, Zach Hocker, Todd Wright, Todd Wright were all excellent immediately.  Hedlund was substandard on day one and was always battling walkons for the position.  The coaching staff should have recognized the fact that Hedlund wasn't going to make it and move on to other options.  There is no reason whatsoever that a Power Five team not have a PK who is nearly automatic from 30 yards in. 

When your PK and punter redshirt as scholarship guys, you've made an evaluation mistake.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: hawgon on October 05, 2017, 02:37:12 pm
I always thought the decision to redshirt him was a mistake.  Kicking the ball is almost 100% mental.  It is like a golfer on the first tee.  Red shirting him told the kid first thing that they didn't think he was good enough to get it done. 

Kickers should be thrown out into the fire like you expect them to do it.  Not only do you demand perfection, you act as though you expect them to do it without question because you know that they are good enough.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: PorkRinds on October 05, 2017, 02:39:36 pm
I always thought the decision to redshirt him was a mistake.  Kicking the ball is almost 100% mental.  It is like a golfer on the first tee.  Red shirting him told the kid first thing that they didn't think he was good enough to get it done. 

Kickers should be thrown out into the fire like you expect them to do it.  Not only do you demand perfection, you act as though you expect them to do it without question because you know that they are good enough.

It could be that they got him on campus and realized he wasn't good enough yet.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: hawgon on October 05, 2017, 02:49:05 pm
It could be that they got him on campus and realized he wasn't good enough yet.

Then send him home and move on to someone else.  The soccer fields of NWA are full of kids who could kick 40 yard field goals.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: ricepig on October 05, 2017, 02:53:36 pm
Then send him home and move on to someone else.  The soccer fields of NWA are full of kids who could kick 40 yard field goals.

Not in college are they, or they would be on s scholarship somewhere. As to sending him home, you'd be hard pressed to get another Texas high school player by sending one home that quick.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: hawgon on October 05, 2017, 02:57:10 pm
Not in college are they, or they would be on s scholarship somewhere. As to sending him home, you'd be hard pressed to get another Texas high school player by sending one home that quick.

Every college in the country has someone who can make field goals.  We are the only team in college football that has not made a field goal four games into the season.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: Arazorbackguy1 on October 05, 2017, 03:00:44 pm
Can we get "Bert" automatically turned into something like "I'm a [CENSORED] bag" when used on the forums?  Seriously.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: GunnerHawg70 on October 05, 2017, 03:05:08 pm
Can we get "Bert" automatically turned into something like "I'm a [CENSORED] bag" when used on the forums?  Seriously.
Geezus...We are talking about Special Teams woes and potential fixes and success...Where in carnation does your post relate to anything about the topic???  Holy chit maaaaan...Start your own thread "Can we get "Bert" automatically turned into something like "I'm a [CENSORED] bag" when used on the forums?  Seriously." and let's see how far that goes...Football buddy, talk football - it's not hard!!!
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: 3kgthog on October 05, 2017, 03:05:40 pm
You could go grab a young lady off the Hog soccer team right now and she could make a 25 yarder.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: hogcard1964 on October 05, 2017, 03:06:46 pm
Our best ranking in special teams categories is 9th in the conference in punting.  Every other category is between 11th and 14th in the conference.  We also rank dead last in the entire country in field goals.

Who is responsible for this?  His head needs to be on a platter.  We've lost games every single year of Bert's tenure because of special teams gaffes.  How can a ball control team be so bad at an area so critical to success in close games and road games?

This is "juvenile".   ;)
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: PorkRinds on October 05, 2017, 03:07:57 pm
Every college in the country has someone who can make field goals.  We are the only team in college football that has not made a field goal four games into the season.

You didn't watch a state last night. They missed an extra point. Their second of the season...
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: hawgon on October 05, 2017, 03:10:03 pm
You didn't watch a state last night. They missed an extra point. Their second of the season...

They also made at least one field goal while I was half assed watching.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: hogcard1964 on October 05, 2017, 03:11:53 pm
You could go grab a young lady off the Hog soccer team right now and she could make a 25 yarder.

Could we get Bielema to give her a ride to the stadium on the back of a motorcycle?
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: PorkRinds on October 05, 2017, 03:12:17 pm
They also made at least one field goal while I was half assed watching.

I mean, you do have to take into account that we've only attempted two field goals. We've only had to kick two. 2/4 games were trans we could score at will. ATM was letting us score as well, so no need for FG's. so your statistic doesn't actually mean much.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: hawgon on October 05, 2017, 03:15:43 pm
I mean, you do have to take into account that we've only attempted two field goals. We've only had to kick two. 2/4 games were trans we could score at will. ATM was letting us score as well, so no need for FG's. so your statistic doesn't actually mean much.

I'll bet you a dollar it means something on Saturday.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: Pigsknuckles on October 06, 2017, 09:01:12 am
I'll bet you a dollar it means something on Saturday.

Would hate to be Limpert right now. He has to be praying that we don't get backed into a corner where we absolutely have to attempt a critical FG.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: Pillowhead Jackson on October 06, 2017, 09:03:12 am
We need an Aussie Rugby player as punter.  And CBB needs to start using fake punts like Jeff Long uses smokescreens.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: Bacons Rebellion on October 06, 2017, 09:10:05 am
I like scoring touchdowns better than kicking field goals.

Except for the two drives against TCU, we've actually been able to find a way to get the ball in the end zone this year (even if it took about 52 plays once).
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: Bacons Rebellion on October 06, 2017, 09:12:04 am
Would hate to be Limpert right now. He has to be praying that we don't get backed into a corner where we absolutely have to attempt a critical FG.

Wow, you don't have much respect for the guy. I bet he's praying he gets to attempt a critical game winning field goal against Alabama.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: PorkRinds on October 06, 2017, 09:22:12 am
I'll bet you a dollar it means something on Saturday.

It may. Doesn’t make your statistics any less irrelevant up to today. The argumehtbthat us not making a field goal is the end of the world when we’ve only been in the position to even need to kick two of them is pretty laughable. That’s completely independent of what happens this weekend. Hell I actually saw somewhere that CBB said Hedlund was still the place kicker.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: Pigsknuckles on October 06, 2017, 09:50:40 am
Wow, you don't have much respect for the guy. I bet he's praying he gets to attempt a critical game winning field goal against Alabama.

My intent was to recognize the pressure he must be under given recent events. Don't read a bash or lack of respect into that.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: From Tusk Till Dawn on October 06, 2017, 11:12:37 pm
It's possible. After the TCU game he said we may just go for it on 4th down from now on.

I heard a sounbyte from the radio today where CBB essentially said he wanted the new kid to have another week.  Im guessing they didnt think he was quite ready last game.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: Rzbakfromwaybak on October 06, 2017, 11:38:25 pm
Just a question because I've not heard it asked.  Has Bielema given up on FG's for the season?


Could be.  Maybe it's because coach BB doesn't like giving 2nd team players game experience.  Since Hedlund was #1 this year, we may have to wait till next year, to see who the FG kicker will be.
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: longpig on October 06, 2017, 11:47:11 pm
Iirc, early on Bret Arnold attributed some special teams woes to not having enough versatile FB/TE size players.   
Title: Re: Special teams disaster
Post by: Quickdraw on October 07, 2017, 09:52:42 am
When you don't hire a special teams coach because you don't think its important part of the game you will never have a good special teams period.