Hogville

RB Sports Discussion => Monday Morning Quarterback => Topic started by: Deep Shoat on October 04, 2017, 04:07:26 pm

Title: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Deep Shoat on October 04, 2017, 04:07:26 pm
Truth be told, no matter how much whining and complaining go on on message boards, call-in shows, Twitter, etc, Coach B is here through next season. 

Seriously, you can take that to the bank.

With that as the starting point, what does Coach B have to do, from here through the '18 season, to get you back on the wagon.

Please don't just say "win".  Because everyone has different expectations in that department.  I'd like to see a legit, honest conversation here.  Try to not be a massive choad in your response.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Lulu Hog on October 04, 2017, 04:09:19 pm
For starters he needs to beat Texas A&M next year. 
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Wildhog on October 04, 2017, 04:11:40 pm
Depends on how we finish this year. 
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Hog-Corleone on October 04, 2017, 04:17:27 pm
For starters he needs to beat Texas A&M next year. 

^^^THIS^^^

And, show some real improvement in the areas that we are deficient in.  I care about wins and losses, but here is what i really want to see:

1:  Fundamentally sound Special teams:  Including: FG's, Kick-Offs through the end zone, Improved KO and Punt Coverage, and Improved K/O and Punt Return Package.
2:  The new 3-4 Defense needs to have a Blitz Package, and be unpredictable.
3:  The O-Line woes need to be 100% corrected.
4:  No more 2nd half or 4th quarter let downs.
5:  Win a game in which we are trailing at half-time.
6:  Offensively, have Cole Kelley, or whoever is QB next year, ready to play by game one...  Scratch that, have the ENTIRE TEAM READY TO PLAY BY GAME ONE!

Not too much to ask 5 years in...
 
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: ModestoHOG63 on October 04, 2017, 04:27:53 pm
Agree on Bielema, he's here and nothing we can do until the contract comes up.

Seriously, the coaching philosophy needs some work.  The game situational play calling on goal line offense is a real head scratcher at times, its has if the defense knows exactly what we are going to do each time.  Mix it up and not be so predictable, turn the QB loose if he can run or "throw it away" when a sack is coming.    DEFENSE.....I wish to hades we would blitz more!  MORE SPEED!      SPECIAL TEAMS:   develop better coverage on both kick-offs and punts, better and faster returns for yardage (kick-offs and punt returns), kicking game   basically hire a special teams coach who can fix these issues.

Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: HoginMemphis on October 04, 2017, 04:32:41 pm
Truth be told, no matter how much whining and complaining go on on message boards, call-in shows, Twitter, etc, Coach B is here through next season. 

Seriously, you can take that to the bank.

With that as the starting point, what does Coach B have to do, from here through the '18 season, to get you back on the wagon.

Please don't just say "win".  Because everyone has different expectations in that department.  I'd like to see a legit, honest conversation here.  Try to not be a massive choad in your response.
If we are being honest? There is no honesty in P5 college football and basketball. The coaches are not honest, boosters are not honest, players are not honest, administration not honest, AD's not honest and most of all, fans are not honest. Your premise was doomed in your title.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on October 04, 2017, 04:34:58 pm
Well, since 2017 apparently doesn't matter, then...Go 8-4 in 2018 followed by a bowl win. 
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Wildhog on October 04, 2017, 04:36:53 pm
Well, since 2017 apparently doesn't matter, then...Go 8-4 in 2018 followed by a bowl win. 

If we don't make a bowl this year, it would take a truly special season to get me back on board.  Like... 10+ wins.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: DoubleReedHawgCaller on October 04, 2017, 04:38:21 pm
Look like we actually know what the hell we are doing out on the field.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Deep Shoat on October 04, 2017, 04:42:06 pm
Depends on how we finish this year.
That is part of the question.  What, from NOW to the end of next season, does he have to do?
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on October 04, 2017, 04:42:10 pm
If we don't make a bowl this year, it would take a truly special season to get me back on board.  Like... 10+ wins.

Given how bad we've been on the OL and questionable at best on D, I'd consider 9-4 as being pretty special after losing AA and Ragnow.  That would have to suggest significant improvement...a pretty significant jump forward. 

Heck, as I think about it and while we're being honest, 9-4 IS a special season for UA in the SECW. 
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: parallaxpig on October 04, 2017, 04:43:07 pm
Staying we title of thread:  How long will 6-8 wins every year be acceptable for Long........
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Wildhog on October 04, 2017, 04:43:13 pm
Given how bad we've been on the OL and questionable at best on D, I'd consider 9-4 as being pretty special after losing AA and Ragnow.  That would have to suggest significant improvement...a pretty significant jump forward. 

Heck, as I think about it and while we're being honest, 9-4 IS a special season for UA in the SECW. 

Meh.  He's underachieved every year he's been here.  8-4 doesn't do much for me if that's the high water mark after six seasons.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Deep Shoat on October 04, 2017, 04:43:59 pm
Well, since 2017 apparently doesn't matter, then...Go 8-4 in 2018 followed by a bowl win.
Yeah, you didn't read then.  From here through the end of '18.  '17 matters, but he isn't going to be fired this season.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on October 04, 2017, 04:45:58 pm
Meh.  He's underachieved every year he's been here.  8-4 doesn't do much for me if that's the high water mark after six seasons.

I'm also playing AD in my opinion.  If he goes 8-4, he's getting a 7th season no matter what happens in 2017.

Don't get me wrong, 9-4 would get me a seat on the very back of the wagon.  In prime jettison position.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Deep Shoat on October 04, 2017, 04:46:47 pm
Staying we title of thread:  How long will 6-8 wins every year be acceptable for Long........
Not the point at all.

Be honest.  What can Coach B do between now and the end of '18 to get you back on the bandwagon?

Keep this on topic for at least a little while.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Wildhog on October 04, 2017, 04:47:33 pm
I'm also playing AD in my opinion.  If he goes 8-4, he's getting a 7th season no matter what happens in 2017.

Which is why he needs to be gone if we don't make a bowl this year.

Personally, I think he should be gone for anything less than 7-5, but I understand that's just not realistic.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on October 04, 2017, 04:50:54 pm
Yeah, you didn't read then.  From here through the end of '18.  '17 matters, but he isn't going to be fired this season.

I did read it.  For me 2017 doesn't matter, because, you know, he isn't getting fired.  So if he goes 4-8 in 2017, then flips to 9-4 in 2018, it would be hard not to give him another look see.  A heck of a turn around, which would have to suggest there was significant improvement.  So as I said, 2017 doesn't matter.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on October 04, 2017, 04:52:42 pm
Which is why he needs to be gone if we don't make a bowl this year.

Personally, I think he should be gone for anything less than 7-5, but I understand that's just not realistic.


Well, I agree, but he's not being fired, so...
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: OneTuskOverTheLineô on October 04, 2017, 04:54:19 pm
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: BigE_23 on October 04, 2017, 04:56:50 pm
He needs to win 8 this year (and upset someone) for me to even consider getting one leg on the Bert-Wagon. Assuming you're right and he's back next season, here's what I'd like to see:

1.) Don't lose any games that you're not supposed to, and don't lay any eggs (i.e., Toledo, TTU)
2.) Be competitive in every game. (There are no excuses for blowout losses in year 6)
3.) Do what you said you would do and claim to be an expert in...controlling the damn line of scrimmage.
4.) Don't give up huge chunk plays on defense and field a unit that plays aggressive, pressures the QB, is gap sound and disciplined on the backend.
5.) Beat the hell out of Texas A&M.
6.) Find a kicker who can kick it through the uprights 80% of the time and out of the back of the end zone 90% of the time.
7.) Wipe that dumbass look off your face.
8.) Sign a top 25 class in 2018.
9.) Beat the hell out of Texas A&M.
10.) Lose 50 lbs...and I'm not freaking kidding. It's embarrassing and sends a message. This team plays like you look - soft and lazy.

Happy 1500th post to me...
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Vantage 8 dude on October 04, 2017, 04:58:38 pm
If we are being honest? There is no honesty in P5 college football and basketball. The coaches are not honest, boosters are not honest, players are not honest, administration not honest, AD's not honest and most of all, fans are not honest. Your premise was doomed in your title.
And of course you're the ONLY one speaking "honestly" here. Apparently no one else has a clue....then again, per usual.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Hogdomer on October 04, 2017, 05:03:28 pm
Truth be told, no matter how much whining and complaining go on on message boards, call-in shows, Twitter, etc, Coach B is here through next season. 

Seriously, you can take that to the bank.

With that as the starting point, what does Coach B have to do, from here through the '18 season, to get you back on the wagon.

Please don't just say "win".  Because everyone has different expectations in that department.  I'd like to see a legit, honest conversation here.  Try to not be a massive choad in your response.

To have beaten Texas A&M this year and next, win 8 this year (before the bowl) and 9 next (before the bowl). 
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: 12247 on October 04, 2017, 05:17:34 pm
Taking your question at face value, what CAN he do, I honestly do not believe he CAN do the things necessary to field a respectable team, not this season, next season nor in the future.

But here is what I would like to see the team do and if he was the HC and they did this, I would be very happy and I do not believe my wants are out of reach for the right HC.

1.  See a team on the field with mental toughness, therefore, refusing to be denied.
2.  Field the total Special Teams Package that performs like they've been actually coached.  A kicker who can put the ball in the endzone when the wind is calm.  A return person that knows the return game with speed.  Punt and Kickoff and Receiving teams that look like they understand what they are doing on the field and work toward that goal everytime out there.
3.  Because the prefers the Power Run attack, an O-line that has the ability to play his choice of scheme with success.
4.  The ability to pass the ball with reasonable assurance of being successful and not looking like, What's this new fangeled thing we are trying to do here????
5.  Be ready to start the season without needing 4 games to get ready defined as being mentally tough, conditioned, aware of the scheme, game plans and having the correct mental toughness and attitude.
6.  Knowing the second team players and KNOWING their limits and abilities.  So tired of us running another player onto the field that has been basically discounted down to, he just can't, only to find out due to the necessity of HAVING to play him, that he is actually pretty damn good.  This leads one to believe this HC and the assistants don't have a clue about  who can and can't.
7.  When he is wrong about something, standing up and just saying so.  Hey, I sure missed it on that subject.  We should have had WHOMEVER on the field far more  and you can BOOK IT, you will see him on the field more starting next game.  OR that was a no brainer in retrospect, way the wrong play for that situation and I was the Guy who called it.
8.  Should we ever field a team with this the we have on hand that knows these basic things about the game, the wins would take care of themselves.  A hardworking, mentally conditioned, well trained and physically fit  group of players who refuse to be denied will will a bunch, especially in this current SEC.  This SEC is BAMA, GEORGIA and AUBURN and the 11 drawfs.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: OneTuskOverTheLineô on October 04, 2017, 05:20:15 pm
(http://www.free-animated-pictures.com/bug_crawls_on_screen.gif)
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: PigPusher on October 04, 2017, 05:23:56 pm
At this point I do not see that we have anything to look forward to the rest of this season or next. The dog has finally bit his tail and is going around and around.

 Been doing this since 1954 (with all american Bud Brooks) and the disappointment at this point is very oppressive. Properly done there is no reason why we should not be winners the majority of the time. Its like the powers-that-be are not really that concerned about that part of the process as long as that money flows. Alas!!!!
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: PonderinHog on October 04, 2017, 05:25:19 pm
And no blowouts!
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Inhogswetrust on October 04, 2017, 05:27:20 pm
For starters he needs to beat Texas A&M next year. 

Some said that last year.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: parallaxpig on October 04, 2017, 05:27:27 pm
Not the point at all.

Be honest.  What can Coach B do between now and the end of '18 to get you back on the bandwagon?

Keep this on topic for at least a little while.

If donating to foundation, buying tickets and going to games ( win or lose) season after season, then yes I never left the bandwagon. If looking at recruiting and actual results of past five seasons --nothing leads me to believe he can get the job done.......
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: 007 License To Squeal on October 04, 2017, 05:34:41 pm
1.  Win out this year
2.  11 wins next year

Not realistic?  Neither is the chance of my wanting him back.  He has been given ample time....and he failed to get us to the SECCG.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hassettsportsman on October 04, 2017, 05:36:25 pm
Shoat if you're the messenger:
1) AD Long must set the conditions publicly for....1SQ..from the movie Crimson Tide..ie Strategic Launch..Bielema's exit..that will stop most of the negativity and speculation
2) Bielema must set the example...Reinvent himself mentally and physically
3) Off season conditioning...is now full time
4) Find a recruiter who can go to Texas and the Deep South
5) Actually have a decent kicking game and special teams
6) Bielema must never say games in LR are 'away' games
7) Call the 3-4 defense whatever...but never line just 3...blitz blitz blitz..i don't care if we get beat over the top
8) Actually make some 2nd half adjustments
9) Put your best players on the field regardless of seniority
10) Bielema must show some fire on and off the field...get a penalty!
11) When you have 1st and goal inside the 5...don't run it up the gut every play!
12) Surprise us and win a bowl game this year!  Win 10 games next year!  Outsmart some good teams!
13) Lucky #13...See #1...Long must publicly state Bielema's conditions for release!
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on October 04, 2017, 05:37:03 pm
1.  Win out this year
2.  11 wins next year

Not realistic?  Neither is the chance of my wanting him back.  He has been given ample time....and he failed to get us to the SECCG.

No HC was getting us the SECCG over the last 5 seasons.  But yeah, it's not realistic he's surviving after season 6.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: swinemaster on October 04, 2017, 05:44:09 pm
He would have to completely transform into a totally different person.  Preferably one about 2/3 his current size and be a Coach that demands toughness, discipline, accountability, and a fine attention to detail.  All things that are currently lacking from this program. 

There's nothing he can do from a recruiting standpoint because the hay is in the barn for next year already.  And it is not an exciting harvest of hay.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: gchamblee on October 04, 2017, 05:45:17 pm
If we don't make a bowl this year, it would take a truly special season to get me back on board.  Like... 10+ wins.

About where I am at as well.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: gchamblee on October 04, 2017, 05:49:56 pm
Meh.  He's underachieved every year he's been here.  8-4 doesn't do much for me if that's the high water mark after six seasons.

I'm really focusing on the Oline as my decider. If he can't get that fixed, he will have lost me for good. Right now I'm not really on his wagon. I'm just not ready to fire him yet.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: cjack on October 04, 2017, 05:56:01 pm
I think no matter who the coach is, we need to be ranked in the top 25.  Some years we may sneak in the top ten with a shot at a big bowl.  Some years we may be in and out of the lower part of the top 25 and a lower tier bowl.  We pay a top 25 salary.  We have top 25 facilities.  We have top 25 players.  We should be a top 25 program.  Any coach who does that,  year after year, is successful here to me.  Any coach who can't do that, after given time to get "his" players and implement his system, needs to go.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: ballz2thewall on October 04, 2017, 05:59:59 pm
wins are better, but.......

start looking prepared at the beginning of the season, win or lose.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hogcard1964 on October 04, 2017, 06:15:40 pm
Truth be told, no matter how much whining and complaining go on on message boards, call-in shows, Twitter, etc, Coach B is here through next season. 

Seriously, you can take that to the bank.

With that as the starting point, what does Coach B have to do, from here through the '18 season, to get you back on the wagon.

Please don't just say "win".  Because everyone has different expectations in that department.  I'd like to see a legit, honest conversation here.  Try to not be a massive choad in your response.

I think he'd essentially have to win 7 of his remaining 8 games left this season.  I think Bama is an automatic loss. But he's failed so miserably, that he'll never be able to put his first 4 seasons behind him.


And I still believe he's gone January 1.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Con el Cerdos on October 04, 2017, 06:16:16 pm
Truth be told, no matter how much whining and complaining go on on message boards, call-in shows, Twitter, etc, Coach B is here through next season. 

Seriously, you can take that to the bank.

With that as the starting point, what does Coach B have to do, from here through the '18 season, to get you back on the wagon.

Please don't just say "win".  Because everyone has different expectations in that department.  I'd like to see a legit, honest conversation here.  Try to not be a massive choad in your response.

Truthfully, I will never be on BB's wagon, but I will give an assessment of what he has to do, IMO, the balance of this season and in wrapping up the 2018 recruiting season in order to take advantage of the friendliest schedule (2018) I can remember.

The balance of this season: he has to get the 2017 version of the OL fixed and win a few SEC games, a bowl win would also help.  To get experience for the 2018 season, BB should also realize, the second team QB needs actual game time in something other than the steamboat package.

Recruiting:  To take advantage of the 2018 schedule, BB has to get major up grades in the OL, probably JCs.  And, yes, I know our "luck" with JCs.  Just not certain there are any other options.   A a stud DT would help him as well.

If he wins 8 to 10 games next year his contract will be extended, might happen anyway.  He can do it if he gets the OL fixed.  All the other pieces are there on offense.
 
Even if he doesn't, he won't be fired.  The basketball scandal has taken the pressure off both, JL and BB.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hawgon on October 04, 2017, 06:21:44 pm
He would have to completely transform into a totally different person.  Preferably one about 2/3 his current size and be a Coach that demands toughness, discipline, accountability, and a fine attention to detail.  All things that are currently lacking from this program. 

There's nothing he can do from a recruiting standpoint because the hay is in the barn for next year already.  And it is not an exciting harvest of hay.

Yeah, that is pretty much it.  He is going to have to do all that and IT MUST translate to the product on the field.  It won't happen.  At age 47 and making over $4 million a year, he is what he is.

It was pretty telling to hear that that clown danced in the locker room after the NMSU win as if he had actually done something. 
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Bacons Rebellion on October 04, 2017, 06:23:02 pm
I think he's going after 2018, however, the minimum for me would be no more second half blown leads, and winning a come from behind game in the second half. I don't care if the special teams do it, or the offense does it or the 3-4 defense does it. His second half performance is the reason he is a failure.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: a0ashle on October 04, 2017, 06:23:36 pm
I'm still on the wagon, so let come at it the other way that. What gets me off the wagon between now and end of '18.

Regression as a team during the season, with youth like we have that's a bad. If we can't turn the season around with Ws and Ls I'll be looking for individuals and unit improvements, have to see some.

OL issues to start next year. I get last year, and this year uses up my benefit of the doubt. Next year there isn't any room for error here. (I think we are better then last year, so I still see trending up on OL, but we can't regress next year or even stagnate)

Bad record vs the spread. Not for betting reasons but it's the easiest way to gauge results vs expectations in a non-binary way, our best years under CBB we beat the spread a lot.

Have to end '18 with the arrow pointing up.

This list is not exclusive, I am sure there are plenty of other things that could contribute.

All this said, end of '18 I won't be mad at CBB and I won't be mad at Long. CBB had the cred, but it will have just not worked out. Long will have made us a pretty sweet gig to attract our next coach, they will likely be given a chance to succeed and not many programs can show that. Stability is something we can offer.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: jkstock04 on October 04, 2017, 06:26:38 pm
Truth be told, no matter how much whining and complaining go on on message boards, call-in shows, Twitter, etc, Coach B is here through next season. 

Seriously, you can take that to the bank.

With that as the starting point, what does Coach B have to do, from here through the '18 season, to get you back on the wagon.

Please don't just say "win".  Because everyone has different expectations in that department.  I'd like to see a legit, honest conversation here.  Try to not be a massive choad in your response.
Go 4-0 in October and i won't peep another complaint the rest of the year.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hogcard1964 on October 04, 2017, 06:29:11 pm
Go 4-0 in October and i won't peep another complaint the rest of the year.

+1000

3-1 should be expected.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: BritneySpareRibs on October 04, 2017, 06:32:38 pm
He needs to go out and grab every grad transfer OL possible. CBB only has success with dominant olines
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: LZH on October 04, 2017, 08:00:26 pm
Just sticking to my guns....2017 = 2018.

I still think it's a complete mess waiting to happen, and big boy may need to move his "figure it out" schedule up a year. I'm not mumbling 4-8 or any of that, but dammit.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Potosihog on October 04, 2017, 08:15:32 pm
About where I am at as well.

The problem lies in the trap of next year's schedule.  I believe it is the easiest schedule since joining the sec.  If he wins 8 or more (which should be a slam dunk) there is no way he gets fired.

If he finds a way to win some sec games this year he is safe at least through 2019 baring a catastrophic failure or taking another job.

I do disagree with the premise that he is safe this year.  If we go 0fer in the sec that will leave us with 3 wins. 

I don't see how he survives that. 

Now to answer the original question:
Improve through this year, win at least 9 next year, and keep momentum going into 2019.

But there lies the risk. 
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: MuskogeeHogFan on October 04, 2017, 08:16:30 pm
Truth be told, no matter how much whining and complaining go on on message boards, call-in shows, Twitter, etc, Coach B is here through next season. 

Seriously, you can take that to the bank.

With that as the starting point, what does Coach B have to do, from here through the '18 season, to get you back on the wagon.

Please don't just say "win".  Because everyone has different expectations in that department.  I'd like to see a legit, honest conversation here.  Try to not be a massive choad in your response.

Winning, regardless of how it occurs is the most measurable of all concepts.

Win 9 and the masses are on board.

Win 8 and the masses are, "what if"? Despite the fact that this is who we are as a program over time since joining the SEC.

Many long for the results of the Petrino era but we honestly don't know what that might have produced over a more extended period of time.

Would they have been good with 7-8 wins for two years in a row and every other two years being 9, 10 or 11 wins? Probably.

Eventually, not getting to the SECCG would have been a measuring stick, but in the meantime, everyone would have been happy. But when it eventually came down to not getting to the SECCG everyone would have turned on Petrino as well. No one wants to admit that because we never reached that juncture and no one wants to admit the truth. But eventually, they would have turned on BP as well.

Let's face it, getting to the SECCG is the true measuring stick for this program just like it is for every other SEC program but it isn't likely that we will ever reach that point.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: EastexHawg on October 04, 2017, 08:19:05 pm
He has four full seasons on the board and this one is off to a poor start that can realistically only improve to mediocre.  Given that, why would I want him back regardless of what happens next year?  How many baseball and football players have underachieved for years, put up big numbers in "contract years", and stuck some sucker with a big contract based on that one "breakout" season?

The sample size is already plenty big enough to see what Bielema brings to Arkansas, and it's not good enough.  We (Long) already made the mistake of tying our future to him after the 2014 season and monumental bowl win over an atrocious Texas team.  I'm not falling for it again.  Actually, I didn't fall for it the first time.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: LZH on October 04, 2017, 08:24:18 pm
He has four full seasons on the board and this one is off to a poor start that can realistically only improve to mediocre.  Given that, why would I want him back regardless of what happens next year?  How many baseball and football players have underachieved for years, put up big numbers in "contract years", and stuck some sucker with a big contract based on that one "breakout" season?

The sample size is already plenty big enough to see what Bielema brings to Arkansas, and it's not good enough.  We (Long) already made the mistake of tying our future to him after the 2014 season and monumental bowl win over an atrocious Texas team.  I'm not falling for it again.  Actually, I didn't fall for it the first time.

Quite fair.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: 870hogfan on October 04, 2017, 08:27:12 pm
I think he'd essentially have to win 7 of his remaining 8 games left this season.  I think Bama is an automatic loss. But he's failed so miserably, that he'll never be able to put his first 4 seasons behind him.


And I still believe he's gone January 1.




Howís Saban doing these days?
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: ErnestHamingway on October 04, 2017, 08:38:02 pm
Scrap the power running offense. Go to the spread. Throw and run the ball when you want to.

Barry Alvarez even said the power run won't work here. He's hinting to Bret.... scrap the power!
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hogcard1964 on October 04, 2017, 08:40:45 pm



Howís Saban doing these days?

Phenomenal

Why?
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: HoginMemphis on October 04, 2017, 08:48:54 pm
I think he'd essentially have to win 7 of his remaining 8 games left this season.  I think Bama is an automatic loss. But he's failed so miserably, that he'll never be able to put his first 4 seasons behind him.


And I still believe he's gone January 1.
He'll be gone Nov 25 or 26 or 27 at latest.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: HoginMemphis on October 04, 2017, 08:56:24 pm
Does anyone see the insanity in fans who comment here still thinking, even hoping, that Coach Bulimia will be the head coach next year? This guy has a losing record though 4 1/3 seasons. He is 10-23 in SEC games. That is the stuff of Vandy of old. Of Rice in the Southwest Conference in the '70's. Fans seem okay with it. They rationalize the hell out of it. Like it will suddenly improve in back half of year 5 and if not, surely in year 6 of Coach Bulimia. Everyone is crazy, because I know I am sane. It's not me, it's you.

This guy would never have a record of 10-23 in SEC play if he could get the job done. No good coach would ever start like that in 4+ seasons. I don't care what he was given in year 1.

A&M is our new SMU of the '90's. Can't beat them. Could play them 50 times and we'd lose all 50 and lose 45 of them in OT. It's so crazy it has become comical. Stop the insanity and dump Bulimia on the weekend after the final game and move on. Give someone else a shot. Bulimia has failed and he is not going to suddenly become Petrino or Holtz or Broyles.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hogcard1964 on October 04, 2017, 09:14:01 pm
Does anyone see the insanity in fans who comment here still thinking, even hoping, that Coach Bulimia will be the head coach next year? This guy has a losing record though 4 1/3 seasons. He is 10-23 in SEC games. That is the stuff of Vandy of old. Of Rice in the Southwest Conference in the '70's. Fans seem okay with it. They rationalize the hell out of it. Like it will suddenly improve in back half of year 5 and if not, surely in year 6 of Coach Bulimia. Everyone is crazy, because I know I am sane. It's not me, it's you.

This guy would never have a record of 10-23 in SEC play if he could get the job done. No good coach would ever start like that in 4+ seasons. I don't care what he was given in year 1.

A&M is our new SMU of the '90's. Can't beat them. Could play them 50 times and we'd lose all 50 and lose 45 of them in OT. It's so crazy it has become comical. Stop the insanity and dump Bulimia on the weekend after the final game and move on. Give someone else a shot. Bulimia has failed and he is not going to suddenly become Petrino or Holtz or Broyles.

It's amazing isn't it?  People are seriously acting like he's built something here and has some sort of resume of success here.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: RyanMallettsEgo on October 04, 2017, 09:20:16 pm
It's amazing isn't it?  People are seriously acting like he's built something here and has some sort of resume of success here.

Show me some proof of this.

People are/were willing to give him time. People, such as myself, are also tired of it and seeing it's probably not gonna happen. I don't see anyone saying he's "built something here." Your shtick is so [CENSORED] exhausting.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: factchecker on October 04, 2017, 09:24:06 pm
Show me some proof of this.

People are/were willing to give him time. People, such as myself, are also tired of it and seeing it's probably not gonna happen. I don't see anyone saying he's "built something here." Your shtick is so [CENSORED] exhausting.

Don't let the Bama fan get to you.  When you see hogcard just move along.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hogcard1964 on October 04, 2017, 09:24:33 pm
Show me some proof of this.

People are/were willing to give him time. People, such as myself, are also tired of it and seeing it's probably not gonna happen. I don't see anyone saying he's "built something here." Your shtick is so [CENSORED] exhausting.

There's still a small contingency that backs him.  Just read some of the insanity here.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: RyanMallettsEgo on October 04, 2017, 09:26:27 pm
There's still a small contingency that backs him.  Just read some of the insanity here.

1. The contingency that backs him backs him because his success equals success for the Arkansas Razorbacks. Crazy to support a guy when it means the team does well, isn't it?

2. I do read the insanity here. I, unfortunately, see your posts every day.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: factchecker on October 04, 2017, 09:27:32 pm
There's still a small contingency that backs him.  Just read some of the insanity here.

Supporting the head coach of the Razorbacks does not = "acting like he's built something here and has some sort of resume of success here".

Not everybody wants to be a wish-wash t-shirt fan who jumps from team to team at the drop of a hat.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hawgon on October 04, 2017, 09:40:01 pm
Show me some proof of this.

People are/were willing to give him time. People, such as myself, are also tired of it and seeing it's probably not gonna happen. I don't see anyone saying he's "built something here." Your shtick is so [CENSORED] exhausting.

Time?  Another five years?  We all know it takes a good decade to start winning right?
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: RyanMallettsEgo on October 04, 2017, 09:52:01 pm
Time?  Another five years?  We all know it takes a good decade to start winning right?

Operative word was "were." Still 8 games left in this season. We lose to Auburn and Alabama and win a bowl game to finish 9-4, I'll be pleased.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: scogs on October 04, 2017, 10:07:51 pm
Stop being the worst 3rd down team in all of college football would be a start. Just saying.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hawgon on October 04, 2017, 10:10:53 pm
Operative word was "were." Still 8 games left in this season. We lose to Auburn and Alabama and win a bowl game to finish 9-4, I'll be pleased.

You will be disappointed.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: RyanMallettsEgo on October 04, 2017, 10:13:09 pm
You will be disappointed.

Not really. My life won't change if they win 11 or if they win 4.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: factchecker on October 04, 2017, 10:18:50 pm
Stop being the worst 3rd down team in all of college football would be a start. Just saying.

I agree that we need to limit 3rd down conversions on defense but South Carolina and Mizzou are currently worse than we are:

http://www.cfbstats.com/2017/leader/911/team/defense/split01/category25/sort01.html

Surprisingly, we are the best (in the SEC) in 3rd down offense:

http://www.cfbstats.com/2017/leader/911/team/offense/split01/category25/sort01.html

It will be interesting to see how this plays out this weekend.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Wildhog on October 04, 2017, 10:26:53 pm
Surprisingly, we are the best (in the SEC) in 3rd down offense:

We're 10th vs Power 5 schools.  Probably why that's so surprising.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2017/leader/911/team/offense/split24/category25/sort01.html
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: 870hogfan on October 04, 2017, 10:29:09 pm
You will be disappointed.



You must live a depressing life. I bet you wish Arkansas would lose the rest of the games so you can come back and tell me see I told you so...
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hawgon on October 04, 2017, 10:30:55 pm


You must live a depressing life. I bet you wish Arkansas would lose the rest of the games so you can come back and tell me see I told you so...

I get to say "I told you so" in the end in this deal no matter what happens this year.  There isn't one person on this board who honestly believes that Bert will get it done at Arkansas and you know it.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Tuskya on October 04, 2017, 10:31:52 pm
Not getting off the wagon, but I expect 9 wins this year and 11 next.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: RyanMallettsEgo on October 04, 2017, 10:54:24 pm
I get to say "I told you so" in the end in this deal no matter what happens this year.  There isn't one person on this board who honestly believes that Bert will get it done at Arkansas and you know it.

That's so sick, dude. When this season is over, I can't wait to tell my buddies that hawgon on Hogville "told us so." They'll surely get a kick out of that.

Can you tell me where you redeem your "I told you so" points? I need to check out that rewards system.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: HoginMemphis on October 04, 2017, 11:06:48 pm
Stop being the worst 3rd down team in all of college football would be a start. Just saying.
I wish we could get 3 points occasionally when we can't get it across the goal line. No FG's yet in 2017. Only team in FBS not to have one this season.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: factchecker on October 04, 2017, 11:08:12 pm
I get to say "I told you so" in the end in this deal no matter what happens this year.  There isn't one person on this board who honestly believes that Bert will get it done at Arkansas and you know it.

Told you so..... huh?

Devwah out for the season.

Whaley is out for the season.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hobhog on October 04, 2017, 11:16:13 pm
Zzzzzzz
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: The Boar War on October 04, 2017, 11:17:34 pm
A record of 8-4 this year, a bowl win, and 9-3 next year.  I'd love it but I just don't see it happening.  Next year could actually be worse than this year and I don't see us getting to the 8 win mark.  Not making a bowl this year combined with the roster turnover and lackluster recruiting may make it hard to get past this year.  A scandal of any kind might be too much for him to weather.

FWIW I think I saw a similar thread last year with many of the same responses. 
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: factchecker on October 04, 2017, 11:19:49 pm
We're 10th vs Power 5 schools.  Probably why that's so surprising.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2017/leader/911/team/offense/split24/category25/sort01.html

Yep.

28.57% vs. TCU
38.46% vs. AnM

http://www.cfbstats.com/2017/team/31/thirddown/offense/gamelog.html
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Wildhog on October 04, 2017, 11:23:41 pm
Yep.

28.57% vs. TCU
38.46% vs. AnM

http://www.cfbstats.com/2017/team/31/thirddown/offense/gamelog.html

Love cfbstats.com.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: factchecker on October 04, 2017, 11:25:48 pm
Love cfbstats.com.

I wonder how they compile the stats.  Do they manually enter them in?  Do they have some sort of auto-feed that does it for them?
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Vantage 8 dude on October 05, 2017, 12:08:46 am
Does anyone see the insanity in fans who comment here still thinking, even hoping, that Coach Bulimia will be the head coach next year? This guy has a losing record though 4 1/3 seasons. He is 10-23 in SEC games. That is the stuff of Vandy of old. Of Rice in the Southwest Conference in the '70's. Fans seem okay with it. They rationalize the hell out of it. Like it will suddenly improve in back half of year 5 and if not, surely in year 6 of Coach Bulimia. Everyone is crazy, because I know I am sane. It's not me, it's you.

This guy would never have a record of 10-23 in SEC play if he could get the job done. No good coach would ever start like that in 4+ seasons. I don't care what he was given in year 1.

A&M is our new SMU of the '90's. Can't beat them. Could play them 50 times and we'd lose all 50 and lose 45 of them in OT. It's so crazy it has become comical. Stop the insanity and dump Bulimia on the weekend after the final game and move on. Give someone else a shot. Bulimia has failed and he is not going to suddenly become Petrino or Holtz or Broyles.
Sorry, but hate to disappoint you and all the rest of the haters. Whether I personally like a coach or not I will ALWAYS root for him to be successful. That means that obviously the team is doing well. And that's ultimately what I'm interested in. I LOVE my Hogs and my alma mater and want all the teams to succeed. As far as who happens to be the HC makes little difference; sorry if that particular sentiment offends anyone. Then again, I give not one rat's arse whether it does or not.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Vantage 8 dude on October 05, 2017, 12:15:03 am
I get to say "I told you so" in the end in this deal no matter what happens this year.  There isn't one person on this board who honestly believes that Bert will get it done at Arkansas and you know it.
So obviously your claim of "I told you so" means far more to you than whether or not CBB is ultimately successful. Yep, spoken like a true fan: don't actually pull and support the team (and whoever is coaching) as long as you get to say in the end "Look at me cause I told ya'". Truly need far more like you both here and in the stands.  :puke: P.S. what a totally shallow and egocentric person....sad.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Vantage 8 dude on October 05, 2017, 12:20:51 am
1. The contingency that backs him backs him because his success equals success for the Arkansas Razorbacks. Crazy to support a guy when it means the team does well, isn't it?

2. I do read the insanity here. I, unfortunately, see your posts every day.
Bingo on all counts! I've honestly come to the conclusion that some would dislike/hate virtually any coach no matter who because for those it's really not about truly and honestly supporting and wishing the team and therefore the coach(es) good fortune. It's about being able to crow about being so insightful and correct about a particular hire. That is until the next guy is hauled up to the gallows for execution......
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: GroŖer Kriegschwein on October 05, 2017, 01:03:11 am
If we don't make a bowl this year, it would take a truly special season to get me back on board.  Like... 10+ wins.

SEC-W Title

Thatís what it would take for me.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: moses_007 on October 05, 2017, 01:20:38 am
Not getting off the wagon, but I expect 9 wins this year and 11 next.
Are you dreaming?
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Al Boarland on October 05, 2017, 03:48:23 am
Pull in a top 15 recruiting class.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Al Boarland on October 05, 2017, 03:51:05 am


A&M is our new SMU of the '90's. Can't beat them. Could play them 50 times and we'd lose all 50 and lose 45 of them in OT. It's so crazy it has become comical.
$50 says when people on HV talk about the A&M game next season someone will say weíre due.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Al Boarland on October 05, 2017, 03:53:10 am
Operative word was "were." Still 8 games left in this season. We lose to Auburn and Alabama and win a bowl game to finish 9-4, I'll be pleased.

Those 9 wins would be fools gold with the state of the SEC, but it would be great for the players.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: HawgcallWPS on October 05, 2017, 05:07:47 am
A man that prided himself on the OL since day 1 that in year 5 fields a unit that is worse than his year 4 unit that led the SEC in sacks allowed. Let's not forget he can't impose his will on the 1 yard line either. He's a fraud and nothing short of a resignation will win me back.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hawgon on October 05, 2017, 07:52:44 am
So obviously your claim of "I told you so" means far more to you than whether or not CBB is ultimately successful. Yep, spoken like a true fan: don't actually pull and support the team (and whoever is coaching) as long as you get to say in the end "Look at me cause I told ya'". Truly need far more like you both here and in the stands.  :puke: P.S. what a totally shallow and egocentric person....sad.

No, dummy, he will fail at Arkansas regardless of whether I want him to or not.  It doesn't matter what I want.  It doesn't matter what happens this weekend.  He will fail at Arkansas.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: RazorWhacker on October 05, 2017, 08:16:28 am
And no blowouts!

Does that include one on his flip-flops?

Just needing clarification.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: PonderinHog on October 05, 2017, 08:19:55 am
Does that include one on his flip-flops?

Just needing clarification.
Depends entirely on the circumstances.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hogcard1964 on October 05, 2017, 08:20:52 am
A record of 8-4 this year, a bowl win, and 9-3 next year.  I'd love it but I just don't see it happening.  Next year could actually be worse than this year and I don't see us getting to the 8 win mark.  Not making a bowl this year combined with the roster turnover and lackluster recruiting may make it hard to get past this year.  A scandal of any kind might be too much for him to weather.

FWIW I think I saw a similar thread last year with many of the same responses.

I don't think there's any doubt of us making a bowl this year but it'll be another also ran bowl.  My gripe is there's just no improvement, and it looks like we may actually be getting worse.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: HoginMemphis on October 05, 2017, 08:24:48 am
Sorry, but hate to disappoint you and all the rest of the haters. Whether I personally like a coach or not I will ALWAYS root for him to be successful. That means that obviously the team is doing well. And that's ultimately what I'm interested in. I LOVE my Hogs and my alma mater and want all the teams to succeed. As far as who happens to be the HC makes little difference; sorry if that particular sentiment offends anyone. Then again, I give not one rat's arse whether it does or not.
You say you're sorry twice then end with saying you don't care. I don't understand. You sound very conflicted.

You are extreme. You interpret fans wanting to try a new head coach as a personal insult and hatred of the current coach. It's neither. We don't care about your thoughts on the program. And we do not hate the coach. Hate is a strong feeling. I hate the shooter who murdered the innocents in LV. I have zero hate for the head coach. Most adults are of same thinking. The coach is limiting the success of the team. Thus my desire for trying another at the job. That is all. Take it easy and do not take it all so personally.

From how you state your opinions, I will guess you are young. Knowledge will be gained and judgement will be improved as you get into your 30's and 40's.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: texas tush hog on October 05, 2017, 08:25:15 am
No HC was getting us the SECCG over the last 5 seasons.  But yeah, it's not realistic he's surviving after season 6.

The nearest we are to a coaching change is December of 2019. Hopefully, Jeffie does not give Bielema another extension, then we have a chance at a change in 2019, but not before. Bielema in effect has a seven year guaranteed contract. Like it or lump it. I, for one, am not happy about that, but I have been told by people in the know, that this the case. Sorry folks.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: HoginMemphis on October 05, 2017, 08:27:37 am
The nearest we are to a coaching change is December of 2019. Hopefully, Jeffie does not give Bielema another extension, then we have a chance at a change in 2019, but not before. Bielema in effect has a seven year guaranteed contract. Like it or lump it. I, for one, am not happy about that, but I have been told by people in the know, that this the case. Sorry folks.
Mr. Connected has spoken. We can suspend Hogville website until 2019. The End. See y'all then.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: DeltaBoy on October 05, 2017, 08:28:48 am
Go 2-2 in Oct band 4-0 in Nov and I will be happy with 8-9 wins and a bowl win.  No more of those embarrassing end of season tanking.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: GuvHog on October 05, 2017, 08:31:21 am
The nearest we are to a coaching change is December of 2019. Hopefully, Jeffie does not give Bielema another extension, then we have a chance at a change in 2019, but not before. Bielema in effect has a seven year guaranteed contract. Like it or lump it. I, for one, am not happy about that, but I have been told by people in the know, that this the case. Sorry folks.

A guaranteed 7 year contract means he's guaranteed 7 years of pay if he's terminated early. It does not mean he's guaranteed to coach for 7 years.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hogsanity on October 05, 2017, 08:36:41 am

and most of all, fans are not honest.


great point that probably went by most people
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: JaketheSnake on October 05, 2017, 08:38:44 am
Scrap the power running offense. Go to the spread. Throw and run the ball when you want to.

Barry Alvarez even said the power run won't work here. He's hinting to Bret.... scrap the power!
Well... if Barrysaid it then we must do that immediately!  Someone get Enos on the phone pronto.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: MountieDawg on October 05, 2017, 08:40:23 am
There is a great chance at seasons end he will have less SEC wins during his tenure than any other SEC school... It is sad it would take 10 million to buy him out...
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hogcard1964 on October 05, 2017, 08:42:54 am
There is a great chance at seasons end he will have less SEC wins during his tenure than any other SEC school... It is sad it would take 10 million to buy him out...

It'll actually be 11.4, but they'll negotiate that down.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: HoginMemphis on October 05, 2017, 09:27:41 am
great point that probably went by most people
Yep. Most will take it as an insult. They will not understand.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Vantage 8 dude on October 05, 2017, 09:35:25 am
No, dummy, he will fail at Arkansas regardless of whether I want him to or not.  It doesn't matter what I want.  It doesn't matter what happens this weekend.  He will fail at Arkansas.
Then again, I'm not the one puffing out my chest like some overgrown baboon or monkey claiming "I told you so". Ultimately such false bravado means nothing. Whether you or I or anyone personally like him or not ultimately means NOTHING. A true fan pulls for the team and school, not the individual of staff that's leading it. In the I care less whose name is one the name plate of the HC's office. I just care about the ultimate performance. And that, DA, is what matters in the end.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: gchamblee on October 05, 2017, 09:36:01 am
Mr. Connected has spoken. We can suspend Hogville website until 2019. The End. See y'all then.

You'll be missed /s
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hogcard1964 on October 05, 2017, 09:39:14 am
Supporting the head coach of the Razorbacks does not = "acting like he's built something here and has some sort of resume of success here".

Not everybody wants to be a wish-wash t-shirt fan who jumps from team to team at the drop of a hat.

There's literally people here that have posted as recently as yesterday, that regardless of his record this season, if he gets Arkansas to 8 or 9 wins next year, he should be given an extension.  I'm sorry but that's insanity.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: mhsbc59 on October 05, 2017, 09:51:17 am
I think yall are all insane
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Vantage 8 dude on October 05, 2017, 09:57:13 am
You say you're sorry twice then end with saying you don't care. I don't understand. You sound very conflicted.

You are extreme. You interpret fans wanting to try a new head coach as a personal insult and hatred of the current coach. It's neither. We don't care about your thoughts on the program. And we do not hate the coach. Hate is a strong feeling. I hate the shooter who murdered the innocents in LV. I have zero hate for the head coach. Most adults are of same thinking. The coach is limiting the success of the team. Thus my desire for trying another at the job. That is all. Take it easy and do not take it all so personally.

From how you state your opinions, I will guess you are young. Knowledge will be gained and judgment will be improved as you get into your 30's and 40's.
Well not surprisingly you have your supposed "facts" about me totally wrong. Then again how come I totally not surprised? Just for your information I'm very much aware of my shortcomings and faults. I was raised to recognize that none of us is perfect and the moment we begin to think so then we are going down a path that will NOT end well in any way, shape, or form. Having said that, I also find your snarky comments concerning the OP's post to be incredibly arrogant and judgemental. Rather than let the post stand and readers respond, you react with a general "no need to even bring this up 'cause what I say/think goes....end of discussion". As to my lack of knowledge/judgment all I can say is that it's been my observation and experience that neither guarantees that either/both is guaranteed to improve just because someone ages. Kind of like the acknowledgement that some folks never grow up, no matter how old they may be. So perhaps in the end rather than spending your time judging me and my faults (which are many) or the "worthiness" of a particular's  poster's thread one is better served by doing some self-examination and self-improvement. If we ALL did more of this then I have no doubt this website and the world in general would be a far better place in which to live.

BTW in my original response I'm conflicted not in the least. I'm very firm in my thoughts/opinion. Otherwise I wouldn't have posted. So in the future how about trying to do less psychoanalyzing of others and rather try sticking to worrying about yourself. Seems to me that's more than a full time job in itself.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Vantage 8 dude on October 05, 2017, 09:58:03 am
You'll be missed /s
Oh really ??? By whom ??? ??? ::) :'( :'(
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hawgon on October 05, 2017, 09:59:11 am
Then again, I'm not the one puffing out my chest like some overgrown baboon or monkey claiming "I told you so". Ultimately such false bravado means nothing. Whether you or I or anyone personally like him or not ultimately means NOTHING. A true fan pulls for the team and school, not the individual of staff that's leading it. In the I care less whose name is one the name plate of the HC's office. I just care about the ultimate performance. And that, DA, is what matters in the end.

I didn't say "I told you so".  You told me that I would say that if we lost.  I merely replied that I would get to say that regardless of what happens on Saturday.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Vantage 8 dude on October 05, 2017, 10:09:41 am
I didn't say "I told you so".  You told me that I would say that if we lost.  I merely replied that I would get to say that regardless of what happens on Saturday.
So you aren't denying the fact that you posted the "I told you so" remark; that's at least being honest. BTW my answer to you had nothing at all to do with what happens this weekend. It obviously has to do with what happens in the  end as to whether the Hogs are successful OVER THE ENTIRE SEASON. In that case I repeat that your approach seems to put far more importance on the accuracy of your views above the success/lack thereof of the team in general. Almost as if you detest CBB/staff enough to sacrifice the team's accomplishments/success for the mere sake of being proven right in the end. And if that's the case then you're damn right I take major exception.....as should every true Hog fan.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hawgon on October 05, 2017, 10:17:53 am
So you aren't denying the fact that you posted the "I told you so" remark; that's at least being honest. BTW my answer to you had nothing at all to do with what happens this weekend. It obviously has to do with what happens in then end as to whether the Hogs are successful OVER THE ENTIRE SEASON. In that case I repeat that your approach seems to put far more importance on the accuracy of your views above the success/lack thereof of the team in general. Almost as if you detest CBB/staff enough to sacrifice the team's accomplishments/success for the mere sake of being proven right in the end. And if that's the case then you're damn right I take major exception.....as should every true Hog fan.

Dude, stop it with the false outrage.  I never came in this thread saying that, but I will if I want to.  And I have no power to sacrifice the team's accomplishments one way or the other.  Are you a child?  Do you believe in the power of voodoo hexes? 

I am merely telling you that I WILL be proven right in the end, through no efforts of my own.  It is as simple as looking up and saying "The sky is blue".  I did nothing to make it so.  It merely is an observation.  Your reaction is as childish as being mad at me over the fact that the sky is not red as you would wish it to be.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Vantage 8 dude on October 05, 2017, 10:23:23 am
Dude, stop it with the false outrage.  I never came in this thread saying that, but I will if I want to.  And I have no power to sacrifice the team's accomplishments one way or the other.  Are you a child?  Do you believe in the power of voodoo hexes? 

I am merely telling you that I WILL be proven right in the end, through no efforts of my own.  It is as simple as looking up and saying "The sky is blue".  I did nothing to make it so.  It merely is an observation.  Your reaction is as childish as being mad at me over the fact that the sky is not red as you would wish it to be.
Okay you stated YOUR opinion. Fine. That in itself should be sufficient. What I find offensive is your "rubbing a nose in it" approach/post. No one needs to be have your prediction called "front and center". In doing so that in the end it appears that's really the most important thing to you; not whether or not the Hogs are indeed successful means nothing.

One other thing: don't try to tell me that my outrage is somehow false or insincere. I can promise you, like it or not, it is very genuine.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hawgon on October 05, 2017, 10:25:53 am
Okay you stated YOUR opinion. Fine. That in itself should be sufficient. What I find offensive is your "rubbing a nose in it" approach/post. No one needs to be have your prediction called "front and center". In doing so that in the end it appears that's really the most important thing to you; not whether or not the Hogs are indeed successful.

They won't be under this coach.  You see I ACTUALLY want them to be successful, not just suffer in perpetual mediocrity while I feel good about myself.  In order to do that, we must move on from the era of Bert.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: RyanMallettsEgo on October 05, 2017, 10:27:52 am
They won't be under this coach.  You see I ACTUALLY want them to be successful, not just suffer in perpetual mediocrity while I feel good about myself.  In order to do that, we must move on from the era of Bert.

Do you know the University of Arkansas Razorbacks football team's all-time winning percentage?

Do you know what that winning percentage translates to in terms of the number of wins in a 12 game season?
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hawgon on October 05, 2017, 10:33:19 am
Do you know the University of Arkansas Razorbacks football team's all-time winning percentage?

Do you know what that winning percentage translates to in terms of the number of wins in a 12 game season?

Yes, I actually do but apparently you do not or you wouldn't have mentioned the 12 win season.  That makes Bert look even worse.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: RyanMallettsEgo on October 05, 2017, 10:38:43 am
Yes, I actually do but apparently you do not or you wouldn't have mentioned the 12 win season.  That makes Bert look even worse.

Try again. Read it again, more slowly this time. Let your reading comprehension skills do their job.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: mhsbc59 on October 05, 2017, 10:42:59 am
How I feel about y'all now
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: HoginMemphis on October 05, 2017, 10:43:27 am
You'll be missed /s
Thanks, stalker.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: HoginMemphis on October 05, 2017, 10:45:08 am
Well not surprisingly you have your supposed "facts" about me totally wrong. Then again how come I totally not surprised? Just for your information I'm very much aware of my shortcomings and faults. I was raised to recognize that none of us is perfect and the moment we begin to think so then we are going down a path that will NOT end well in any way, shape, or form. Having said that, I also find your snarky comments concerning the OP's post to be incredibly arrogant and judgemental. Rather than let the post stand and readers respond, you react with a general "no need to even bring this up 'cause what I say/think goes....end of discussion". As to my lack of knowledge/judgment all I can say is that it's been my observation and experience that neither guarantees that either/both is guaranteed to improve just because someone ages. Kind of like the acknowledgement that some folks never grow up, no matter how old they may be. So perhaps in the end rather than spending your time judging me and my faults (which are many) or the "worthiness" of a particular's  poster's thread one is better served by doing some self-examination and self-improvement. If we ALL did more of this then I have no doubt this website and the world in general would be a far better place in which to live.

BTW in my original response I'm conflicted not in the least. I'm very firm in my thoughts/opinion. Otherwise I wouldn't have posted. So in the future how about trying to do less psychoanalyzing of others and rather try sticking to worrying about yourself. Seems to me that's more than a full time job in itself.
Very specific. I didn't read all. Not important. Relax. I described you 100% accurately. Your reply tells me so. Best wishes.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Vantage 8 dude on October 05, 2017, 10:49:55 am
Very specific. I didn't read all. Not important. Relax. I described you 100% accurately. Your reply tells me so. Best wishes.
Your own admission that "I didn't read all" tells me everything I need to". Your reply tells me so. You described yourself 100% accurately....see how that works ??? ::)
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: EastexHawg on October 05, 2017, 11:24:11 am
Do you know the University of Arkansas Razorbacks football team's all-time winning percentage?

Do you know what that winning percentage translates to in terms of the number of wins in a 12 game season?

Do you know how many people used to be killed or crippled by smallpox and polio before vaccines were invented?  Who bases the present and the future solely on past history?

By the way, to answer your question, from the time Frank Broyles arrived in 1958 through the 2011 season...54 years of Arkansas football...our cumulative record was 396 wins, 219 losses, and 10 ties.  That comes out to a winning percentage of .642.  Based on a 13 game season, that means we would have averaged 8.34 wins and 4.66 losses.  Over the last five years we have averaged 5.8 wins and 6.8 losses.  That includes Smiley's 2012 record.  Under Bielema we have averaged 6.25 wins and 6.5 losses.

Apparently there is a point here that needs to be made, but I'm not sure it's the one you are hoping for.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: RyanMallettsEgo on October 05, 2017, 11:31:52 am
Do you know how many people used to be killed or crippled by smallpox and polio before vaccines were invented?  Who bases the present and the future solely on past history?

By the way, to answer your question, from the time Frank Broyles arrived in 1958 through the 2011 season...54 years of Arkansas football...our cumulative record was 396 wins, 219 losses, and 10 ties.  That comes out to a winning percentage of .642.  Based on a 13 game season, that means we would have averaged 8.34 wins and 4.66 losses.  Over the last five years we have averaged 5.8 wins and 6.8 losses.  That includes Smiley's 2012 record.  Under Bielema we have averaged 6.25 wins and 6.5 losses.

Apparently there is a point here that needs to be made, but I'm not sure it's the one you are hoping for.

Well, my point was that Arkansas' all-time winning percentage is .590, which, in a 12-game season, comes out to 7.1 wins per season. My point was some will call that "mediocre," but history and trends show that's just what our program is.

The point is that it's stupid to get pissed off and bitch and moan over a "mediocre" 7-win season. If that's the case, the history of Arkansas Razorbacks football is mediocre.

As you stated, Bielema averages 6.25 through four full years. Less than one more win per year during his tenure puts us right on track with our program's history. If he pulls out 8 wins this year, statistically speaking, that'll be an above average season for us.

And no, I don't settle for 7 wins. I want and expect more. But I don't go off the [CENSORED] rails or foam at the mouth when we don't win 10 games a season when, historically, we're a 7 win per season program. Based on your opening statement, I guess we're still in search of a miracle vaccine.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hawgon on October 05, 2017, 11:41:58 am
Because, yes, our winning percentage from 1906 to 1958 is important to today.

See, Easttex, here is what you have to remember when arguing with these Bert/mediocrity defenders when talking about past winning percentages.  If you are talking about our past to illustrate that we were once very successful and part of the college football elite, our winning percentages are to be dismissed because they were part of the old SWC and everyone knows the SEC is more difficult.  If you wish to downgrade the program and show our historic mediocrity, then by all means we must show all that futility we went through in the 1920s,30s, and 40s so that we can emphasize our historic mediocrity more clearly.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: RyanMallettsEgo on October 05, 2017, 11:46:37 am
Because, yes, our winning percentage from 1906 to 1958 is important to today.

See, Easttex, here is what you have to remember when arguing with these Bert/mediocrity defenders when talking about past winning percentages.  If you are talking about our past to illustrate that we were once very successful and part of the college football elite, our winning percentages are to be dismissed because they were part of the old SWC and everyone knows the SEC is more difficult.  If you wish to downgrade the program and show our historic mediocrity, then by all means we must show all that futility we went through in the 1920s,30s, and 40s so that we can emphasize our historic mediocrity more clearly.

By all means, pick a usable sample size of seasons and find our winning percentage. Even the sample size EastTex used accounted for a whopping 1.3 more wins per season than our historical average based on a 12-game season.

1.3 more wins! Now we're cookin'. Those 1.3 extra wins really pull us out of the depths of mediocrity in your eyes, don't they?

Nah, they don't. You expect double-digit wins per season with nothing to base it on apart from 2 recent seasons.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hawgon on October 05, 2017, 11:48:21 am
By all means, pick a usable sample size of seasons and find our winning percentage. Even the sample size EastTex used accounted for a whopping 1.3 more wins per season than our historical average based on 12 games.

1.3 more wins! Now we're cookin'.

Frank Broyles averaged 8 to 8.5 wins per season in 11 game seasons.

And that is 11 with a bowl.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Hogwild on October 05, 2017, 11:49:08 am
 

Heck, as I think about it and while we're being honest, 9-4 IS a special season for UA in the SECW.

It shouldn't be, next season we play 4 OOC against non Power 5 schools, plus we play Vandy and Missouri from the East, that's 6 wins before we even play at team from the West.  Now you only need to win 3 games against the West.  Which includes two games at home against teams without real head coaches, Ole Miss & LSU. 
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hogcard1964 on October 05, 2017, 11:55:41 am
Do you know the University of Arkansas Razorbacks football team's all-time winning percentage?

Do you know what that winning percentage translates to in terms of the number of wins in a 12 game season?

He's 27 and 28 overall.  That translates to winning 5.9 games per year.  In the SEC he's 10-23, which translates into winning 3 SEC games per year.

...which is dreadful.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Vantage 8 dude on October 05, 2017, 11:58:15 am
They won't be under this coach.  You see I ACTUALLY want them to be successful, not just suffer in perpetual mediocrity while I feel good about myself.  In order to do that, we must move on from the era of Bert.
IMO you're NOW moving toward the approach that should have taken all along. Instead of "Hey look at my prediction that we'll fail" perhaps it would have been far better to have said something along the lines of "Look, I truly want the team to succeed no matter who the coach might be; however, I just don't think he can/will get it done". Amazing how just changing a few words and tone can make a huge difference in how it can be interpreted even if the intention was innocent.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: JaketheSnake on October 05, 2017, 12:06:13 pm
Frank Broyles averaged 8 to 8.5 wins per season in 11 game seasons.

And that is 11 with a bowl.
He averaged 7.7 wins per season over 19 years at Arkansas.  Including Bowl wins.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on October 05, 2017, 12:10:33 pm
It shouldn't be, next season we play 4 OOC against non Power 5 schools, plus we play Vandy and Missouri from the East, that's 6 wins before we even play at team from the West.  Now you only need to win 3 games against the West.  Which includes two games at home against teams without real head coaches, Ole Miss & LSU. 

Maybe for next season, but generally speaking, 9-4 is special for us in the SEC.  No doubt about it.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: RyanMallettsEgo on October 05, 2017, 12:12:12 pm
Frank Broyles averaged 8 to 8.5 wins per season in 11 game seasons.

And that is 11 with a bowl.

So you're gonna bitch about historical trends, but turn around and choose a sample size ranging from 59 (1958) - 41 (1976) years ago.

Makes sense.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Bubba's Bruisers on October 05, 2017, 12:13:28 pm
Frank Broyles averaged 8 to 8.5 wins per season in 11 game seasons.

And that is 11 with a bowl.

I fail to see the significance of our performance over 4 decades ago.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hogsanity on October 05, 2017, 12:45:21 pm
Because, yes, our winning percentage from 1906 to 1958 is important to today.

See, Easttex, here is what you have to remember when arguing with these Bert/mediocrity defenders when talking about past winning percentages.  If you are talking about our past to illustrate that we were once very successful and part of the college football elite, our winning percentages are to be dismissed because they were part of the old SWC and everyone knows the SEC is more difficult.  If you wish to downgrade the program and show our historic mediocrity, then by all means we must show all that futility we went through in the 1920s,30s, and 40s so that we can emphasize our historic mediocrity more clearly.

Is the win % from 58 to 91 important? How about just since joining the sec, the conference we play in now? Do you know what the win % is in those 25 seasons? It is .57 just so you don't ave to do the work. 167 in 294 games since joining the sec, if you want to add in this year it is 169 out of 296.   Or is that point in time also not right to use?
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: 12247 on October 05, 2017, 01:02:17 pm
Isn't it about time for everyone quit with the averaging thing.  It is clear that you can pick and choose certain stats to fit your wishes.  I ask all, what if we had averaged winning 85 percent of all our games since we started football.  Is there a problem with wanting the most expensive HC ever for us who brought the best resume to us of any coach we've ever hired won/loss wise, who got the largest budget of any Arkansas HC ever to work with for assistants, to top that a bit?  Well, is there a good reason now, without picking a particular item that fits your position.  Is there a problem of expecting said HC to at least not be at or near the bottom of the actual stats such as SEC wins, P5 wins, etc...  This biggest name ever HC we hired has the only no conference win season in ever.  On the other hand he has the football group trending upward in GPA, staying off police blotters and staying elgible.   

If you took the average of all the recent HCs we've hired, say since Hatfield, wouldn't you consider it an injustice to rate Bret down there with those Guys as to winning and character, his resume stands out better than these folks, considering past winning and past character, yet his winning percentage is thrown up against these hooligans as a fair assessment. 

There was the poor Arkansas farmer who finally saved up enough money to take the Wife into the city for a really nice meal, Lobster, Steak and all the fixins and a decent bottle of wine, finally escaping Barney's BBQ and the local drive-in.  The old farmer has finally been able to buy the wife a meal she is worthy of and hes proud, you know, like we were to get this huge resume Bret fellow.  The farmer stumbles into the kitchen thinking its the restroom, finding cock roaches running everywhere, seeing someone removing the steaks from the mircowave and seeing someone else dragging his hand from something that looks like filthy dishwater but is in fact the tank containing the lobster.

Farmer, like us fans, was amazed at what he was about to drop $300.00 on.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hogcard1964 on October 05, 2017, 01:28:40 pm

If you took the average of all the recent HCs we've hired, say since Hatfield, wouldn't you consider it an injustice to rate Bret down there with those Guys as to winning and character, his resume stands out better than these folks, considering past winning and past character, yet his winning percentage is thrown up against these hooligans as a fair assessment. 

If you simply wanted a nice that's not a very good coach, couldn't you have done it cheaper?
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: The ColonelHog on October 05, 2017, 03:52:36 pm
Does anyone see the insanity in fans who comment here still thinking, even hoping, that Coach Bulimia will be the head coach next year? This guy has a losing record though 4 1/3 seasons. He is 10-23 in SEC games. That is the stuff of Vandy of old. Of Rice in the Southwest Conference in the '70's. Fans seem okay with it. They rationalize the hell out of it. Like it will suddenly improve in back half of year 5 and if not, surely in year 6 of Coach Bulimia. Everyone is crazy, because I know I am sane. It's not me, it's you.

This guy would never have a record of 10-23 in SEC play if he could get the job done. No good coach would ever start like that in 4+ seasons. I don't care what he was given in year 1.

A&M is our new SMU of the '90's. Can't beat them. Could play them 50 times and we'd lose all 50 and lose 45 of them in OT. It's so crazy it has become comical. Stop the insanity and dump Bulimia on the weekend after the final game and move on. Give someone else a shot. Bulimia has failed and he is not going to suddenly become Petrino or Holtz or Broyles.

LMAO!  I agree, you are NOT crazy!  I donít have any expectations that B.B. can do anything I would like to see.  ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN FOLKS!  I expected this team to win 9 games this season period.  If he doesnít get there this season in a putrid SEC, heís not going to ever get there.  He is what he is folks, a poor coach!  Did any of you hear Alvarez say he sat down with his HCs at Wisconsin 3-4 days a week?  Why is that important?  Because ALVAREZ was running the program when he was there and still is!  STOP the madness, BB is a failure here and we need to move on ASAP!
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: 007 License To Squeal on October 05, 2017, 04:00:24 pm
He's 27 and 28 overall.  That translates to winning 5.9 games per year.  In the SEC he's 10-23, which translates into winning 3 SEC games per year.

...which is dreadful.
+100
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: 007 License To Squeal on October 05, 2017, 04:05:32 pm
LMAO!  I agree, you are NOT crazy!  I donít have any expectations that B.B. can do anything I would like to see.  ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN FOLKS!  I expected this team to win 9 games this season period.  If he doesnít get there this season in a putrid SEC, heís not going to ever get there.  He is what he is folks, a poor coach!  Did any of you hear Alvarez say he sat down with his HCs at Wisconsin 3-4 days a week?  Why is that important?  Because ALVAREZ was running the program when he was there and still is!  STOP the madness, BB is a failure here and we need to move on ASAP!

Get ready for the:

"But he's doing it the right way" posts
"But we're Arkansas. We will never be in contention for the NC" posts
"But what good coach would come here" posts
"He is re-building" posts
"We will never be able to recruit 5 star players here" posts

There are some here who will ALWAYS excuse BB's sub-par, over-paid performance.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: code red on October 05, 2017, 06:01:18 pm
If he loses this weekend I could see him being removed after this year is over.  If he wins I think he wins 7.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Hogs-n-Roses on October 05, 2017, 06:18:49 pm
If he loses this weekend I could see him being removed after this year is over.  If he wins I think he wins 7.
I don't think he will/would be removed. I think his health will go bad or Snyder at K-state will name him as his successor and get everyone off the hook with a negociated buyout. Then the caos would start.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: tusked on October 05, 2017, 06:33:25 pm
Because, yes, our winning percentage from 1906 to 1958 is important to today.

See, Easttex, here is what you have to remember when arguing with these Bert/mediocrity defenders when talking about past winning percentages.  If you are talking about our past to illustrate that we were once very successful and part of the college football elite, our winning percentages are to be dismissed because they were part of the old SWC and everyone knows the SEC is more difficult.  If you wish to downgrade the program and show our historic mediocrity, then by all means we must show all that futility we went through in the 1920s,30s, and 40s so that we can emphasize our historic mediocrity more clearly.

applause
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: tusked on October 05, 2017, 06:36:56 pm
LMAO!  I agree, you are NOT crazy!  I donít have any expectations that B.B. can do anything I would like to see.  ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN FOLKS!  I expected this team to win 9 games this season period.  If he doesnít get there this season in a putrid SEC, heís not going to ever get there.  He is what he is folks, a poor coach!  Did any of you hear Alvarez say he sat down with his HCs at Wisconsin 3-4 days a week?  Why is that important?  Because ALVAREZ was running the program when he was there and still is!  STOP the madness, BB is a failure here and we need to move on ASAP!

I don't know why it doesn't get more play but Wisky's record is BETTER after BB left than when he was there.  That's all you need to know.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: BoynamedWooPigSooie on October 05, 2017, 06:40:56 pm
Dude can't do nothing to get me on his bandwagon again.

I had serious reservations after the first Rutgers loss and the constant cheerleading of Brooks Ellis who even to the untrained eye was obviously not up to snuff at the SEC level.

Complete moron on the sidelines which is one of the things Wisconsin fans told us.  My friends in Madison have been quite happy that we took him off their hands.

He's in over his head and has too much of an ego to do the things needed to fix it.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: JaketheSnake on October 05, 2017, 07:22:49 pm
I don't know why it doesn't get more play but Wisky's record is BETTER after BB left than when he was there.  That's all you need to know.
Average over 7 seasons there was 9.7 wins per season.  Since his departure, Wiscy has averaged 10.25 wins per season. 

CBB also had a 12 win season, which no one since has.  He also went to 3 Rose Bowls, which Wiscy has not been back since. 

Not that I think CBB has proven he is a great coach, but let's at least present that data adequately. 
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: gchamblee on October 05, 2017, 07:34:06 pm
I don't think he will/would be removed. I think his health will go bad or Snyder at K-state will name him as his successor and get everyone off the hook with a negociated buyout. Then the caos would start.

Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hogcard1964 on October 05, 2017, 07:38:09 pm
I don't think he will/would be removed. I think his health will go bad or Snyder at K-state will name him as his successor and get everyone off the hook with a negociated buyout. Then the caos would start.

What kind of chaos would ensue?  From the U of A?
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Hogs-n-Roses on October 05, 2017, 08:59:48 pm

xcuse me I was in a hurry forgot spellcheck.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Hogs-n-Roses on October 05, 2017, 09:02:35 pm
What kind of chaos would ensue?  From the U of A?
No, not from the UofA. Just the fanbase wanting this guy or that guy as AD and then the coaching replacement search and plane chasers. Maybe I should have used a lighter term like fun/excitement.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: From Tusk Till Dawn on October 05, 2017, 10:22:39 pm
Im not off the wagon yet but will answer.

1.  We have to finish, no more big leads evaporating.
2.  Better than 4 wins in conf play, start with a&m
3.  Recruiting/player development?  Would like to see the emergence of a threat/difference maker on punt and kickoff returns (joe adams type) that scares opponents and can give us a short field
4.  Improved defense, more pressure on the qb
5.  Kicking, both fg and kickoffs
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Jonbo on October 06, 2017, 06:56:10 am
Well, my point was that Arkansas' all-time winning percentage is .590, which, in a 12-game season, comes out to 7.1 wins per season. My point was some will call that "mediocre," but history and trends show that's just what our program is.

The point is that it's stupid to get pissed off and bitch and moan over a "mediocre" 7-win season. If that's the case, the history of Arkansas Razorbacks football is mediocre.

As you stated, Bielema averages 6.25 through four full years. Less than one more win per year during his tenure puts us right on track with our program's history. If he pulls out 8 wins this year, statistically speaking, that'll be an above average season for us.

And no, I don't settle for 7 wins. I want and expect more. But I don't go off the [CENSORED] rails or foam at the mouth when we don't win 10 games a season when, historically, we're a 7 win per season program. Based on your opening statement, I guess we're still in search of a miracle vaccine.

IOW, the losses to -what was it, Texas Tech?, Toledo, and last seasons season-ending debacles really damaged CBB's overall win percentage. Hmmm,. (Not trying to make a point! I don't know what in particular to make of it.)
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: LZH on October 06, 2017, 07:02:53 am
Well, my point was that Arkansas' all-time winning percentage is .590, which, in a 12-game season, comes out to 7.1 wins per season. My point was some will call that "mediocre," but history and trends show that's just what our program is.

The point is that it's stupid to get pissed off and bitch and moan over a "mediocre" 7-win season. If that's the case, the history of Arkansas Razorbacks football is mediocre.

As you stated, Bielema averages 6.25 through four full years. Less than one more win per year during his tenure puts us right on track with our program's history. If he pulls out 8 wins this year, statistically speaking, that'll be an above average season for us.

And no, I don't settle for 7 wins. I want and expect more. But I don't go off the [CENSORED] rails or foam at the mouth when we don't win 10 games a season when, historically, we're a 7 win per season program. Based on your opening statement, I guess we're still in search of a miracle vaccine.

You're lumping in different coaches, though, and it makes it seem the program is mediocre because we've had 2 years of Crowe, 5 or 6 years of Ford, 10 years of Nutt, the one year JLS nightmare, and now 4 1/3 seasons of Bielema.

Mediocre coaches (temporarily) make mediocre programs. I suggest if we had been less "accepting" of average coaches producing average/below average teams, our record during that 60 year span would look a lot better.

Whenever we've had a damn good coach,  we've been considered a damn good program.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Deep Shoat on October 06, 2017, 07:42:32 am
You're lumping in different coaches, though, and it makes it seem the program is mediocre because we've had 2 years of Crowe, 5 or 6 years of Ford, 10 years of Nutt, the one year JLS nightmare, and now 4 1/3 seasons of Bielema.

Mediocre coaches (temporarily) make mediocre programs. I suggest if we had been less "accepting" of average coaches producing average/below average teams, our record during that 60 year span would look a lot better.

Whenever we've had a damn good coach,  we've been considered a damn good program.
Let's dig into your thought and see if that is really true.

Frank Broyles, the standard by which all are measured - 144-58-5 for a .696 winning percentage at Arkansas.

Lou Holtz - 60-21-2 for a .723 winning percentage.

Ken Hatfield - 55-17-1 for a .753 winning percentage.

Bobby Petrino - 34-17 for a .667 winning percentage.

Add all that up and we have a .708 winning percentage from our best coaches.  That adds up to just under 8.5 wins per season adjusted for a 12 game schedule.  Still clearly within our statistical average. 

Historically, we are a pretty good team.  Not great. 

That doesn't mean I'm satisfied with Coach B's current winning percentage.  For me, what it means, is we need to show patience and allow a good coach, which Bielema has proven to be, the time to build.  The whole "swap coaches every five years until you get lucky" is so clearly a failure of a way to build a program, yet Arkansas fans keep begging for it.

I'm starting to wonder if CBB is going to get it done here, too.  But based on the statistical REALITY of who we ARE, and the proven failure of the "five years is long enough" approach,  I believe patience is the only option, stability is the only hope for Arkansas to reach the next tier.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: GuvHog on October 06, 2017, 08:02:47 am
Let's dig into your thought and see if that is really true.

Frank Broyles, the standard by which all are measured - 144-58-5 for a .696 winning percentage at Arkansas.

Lou Holtz - 60-21-2 for a .723 winning percentage.

Ken Hatfield - 55-17-1 for a .753 winning percentage.

Bobby Petrino - 34-17 for a .667 winning percentage.

Add all that up and we have a .708 winning percentage from our best coaches.  That adds up to just under 8.5 wins per season adjusted for a 12 game schedule.  Still clearly within our statistical average. 

Historically, we are a pretty good team.  Not great. 

That doesn't mean I'm satisfied with Coach B's current winning percentage.  For me, what it means, is we need to show patience and allow a good coach, which Bielema has proven to be, the time to build.  The whole "swap coaches every five years until you get lucky" is so clearly a failure of a way to build a program, yet Arkansas fans keep begging for it.

I'm starting to wonder if CBB is going to get it done here, too.  But based on the statistical REALITY of who we ARE, and the proven failure of the "five years is long enough" approach,  I believe patience is the only option, stability is the only hope for Arkansas to reach the next tier.


How many years did Frank's Hogs finish in the top 25??

How many years did Lou Holtz's Hogs finish in the Top 25??

How man years did Hatfield's Hogs finish in the top 25??
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hawgon on October 06, 2017, 08:10:00 am
8.5 wins a year?  Hmmm what does that mean?  Well, unless you never do worse than seven wins and never do better than nine wins, it means most years are nine wins or better.  THAT would definitely have us in the very good range of programs knocking on the door of the elite.

I personally would take three or four years of nine or better with a year of five or worse every single day and twice on Sundays.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: RyanMallettsEgo on October 06, 2017, 08:15:11 am
Let's dig into your thought and see if that is really true.

Frank Broyles, the standard by which all are measured - 144-58-5 for a .696 winning percentage at Arkansas.

Lou Holtz - 60-21-2 for a .723 winning percentage.

Ken Hatfield - 55-17-1 for a .753 winning percentage.

Bobby Petrino - 34-17 for a .667 winning percentage.

Add all that up and we have a .708 winning percentage from our best coaches.  That adds up to just under 8.5 wins per season adjusted for a 12 game schedule.  Still clearly within our statistical average. 

Historically, we are a pretty good team.  Not great. 

That doesn't mean I'm satisfied with Coach B's current winning percentage.  For me, what it means, is we need to show patience and allow a good coach, which Bielema has proven to be, the time to build.  The whole "swap coaches every five years until you get lucky" is so clearly a failure of a way to build a program, yet Arkansas fans keep begging for it.

I'm starting to wonder if CBB is going to get it done here, too.  But based on the statistical REALITY of who we ARE, and the proven failure of the "five years is long enough" approach,  I believe patience is the only option, stability is the only hope for Arkansas to reach the next tier.

Very, very good post.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: EastexHawg on October 06, 2017, 09:01:13 am
Let's dig into your thought and see if that is really true.

Frank Broyles, the standard by which all are measured - 144-58-5 for a .696 winning percentage at Arkansas.

Lou Holtz - 60-21-2 for a .723 winning percentage.

Ken Hatfield - 55-17-1 for a .753 winning percentage.

Bobby Petrino - 34-17 for a .667 winning percentage.

Add all that up and we have a .708 winning percentage from our best coaches.  That adds up to just under 8.5 wins per season adjusted for a 12 game schedule.  Still clearly within our statistical average. 

Play a 13th game (bowl) and that 8.5 turns into 9.2 wins per season.  Beilema, including bowls, is winning 6.25 per season.  How in the world can anyone say a 9-4 record and 6-7 are similar? 

You want to take away his first season because you think it shouldn't be held against him?  Okay, then in seasons 2-4 he went 22-17.  That's an average season of 7-6.  Take away Petrino's first year and his average season was 10-3.

It can be done at Arkansas, but it isn't being done.  This is year five.  That's long enough to make an evaluation of a coach.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hogcard1964 on October 06, 2017, 09:05:42 am


I'm starting to wonder if CBB is going to get it done here, too.  But based on the statistical REALITY of who we ARE, and the proven failure of the "five years is long enough" approach,  I believe patience is the only option, stability is the only hope for Arkansas to reach the next tier.

He's almost halfway through his 5th year here, and you're just now "starting to wonder" if he can get it done here?
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: JaketheSnake on October 06, 2017, 09:07:05 am
8.5 wins a year?  Hmmm what does that mean?  Well, unless you never do worse than seven wins and never do better than nine wins, it means most years are nine wins or better.  THAT would definitely have us in the very good range of programs knocking on the door of the elite.

I personally would take three or four years of nine or better with a year of five or worse every single day and twice on Sundays.
No you wouldn't... most on here would be calling for change the moment we had a coach have a down year.  If we are being honest...
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: HawgWyld on October 06, 2017, 09:13:25 am
Operative word was "were." Still 8 games left in this season. We lose to Auburn and Alabama and win a bowl game to finish 9-4, I'll be pleased.

9-4? Who wouldn't be thrilled with that? Not incredibly realistic with this particular coach, but such a record would be just the thing to convert the naysayers.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: jkstock04 on October 06, 2017, 09:19:57 am
Okay you stated YOUR opinion. Fine. That in itself should be sufficient. What I find offensive is your "rubbing a nose in it" approach/post. No one needs to be have your prediction called "front and center". In doing so that in the end it appears that's really the most important thing to you; not whether or not the Hogs are indeed successful means nothing.

One other thing: don't try to tell me that my outrage is somehow false or insincere. I can promise you, like it or not, it is very genuine.
There is crowing and rubbing of noses is on both ends. In fact, cumulatively I would say over the past few years you guys have been 10 times worse. Anyone who questions anything of even obvious nature has been met with extreme vitriol.

The OP is one of the ring leaders.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: RyanMallettsEgo on October 06, 2017, 09:29:26 am
9-4? Who wouldn't be thrilled with that? Not incredibly realistic with this particular coach, but such a record would be just the thing to convert the naysayers.

Oh, you can bet your house that a segment of this place would bitch about a 9-4 record. I wouldn't. As I said, I'd be extremely pleased. We could win the National Championship and that same segment would bitch about something. It's not even Arkansas football at that point, it's just the kind of people they are in general.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: a0ashle on October 06, 2017, 09:29:50 am
There is crowing and rubbing of noses is on both ends. In fact, cumulatively I would say over the past few years you guys have been 10 times worse. Anyone who questions anything of even obvious nature has been met with extreme vitriol.

The OP is one of the ring leaders.

Oh yes, every opinion must be cherished and lauded. The mere act of being able to put on a board any empty thought should be met with the upmost respect. No criticism of critics allowed.

See I am hoping those who talk about how they aren't allowed to be critical of the coach, would be a little more tolerant to their own critics. Or do you think opinions are only valid as long as its not a bad opinon about you or your takes?
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: jkstock04 on October 06, 2017, 09:35:32 am
Oh yes, every opinion must be cherished and lauded. The mere act of being able to put on a board any empty thought should be met with the upmost respect. No criticism of critics allowed.

See I am hoping those who talk about how they aren't allowed to be critical of the coach, would be a little more tolerant to their own critics. Or do you think opinions are only valid as long as its not a bad opinon about you or your takes?
I'm perfectly good with any opinion or disagreement as long as it doesn't become personal. I've been on this board for 10 plus years and not once have I went on a name calling tirade because i disagreed with someone's opinion.

Can you say the same? Doubtful...you are similar with the OP.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hawgon on October 06, 2017, 09:36:48 am
No you wouldn't... most on here would be calling for change the moment we had a coach have a down year.  If we are being honest...

NYJMSU.  What I just said is almost exactly how Gary Patterson has been doing it at TCU and not one single person on this board would not trade what we have for that.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hogsanity on October 06, 2017, 09:37:00 am
If we're being honest very few college programs have a chance to be more than 1 year wonders. Very few having the resources, recruiting base, ability to get top level coaches to sustain being at or near the top year after year. Look at the top 10 rankings each year for the past 10, 20, 30 years and a few of the same names pop up over and over. Bama, Ohio St, Fla, FSu, USC, Pn St, OU. No, they are not there every year, but far more than other programs.  Then there is a group of 20-30 programs capable of jumping up and being there for a year or 2 before going back to just in or just out of the rankings for a period of time before they get back to the top 10 for a year or 2.  The Hogs are in that group. Their struggles are just a little more due to the conference they are in.

The honest reality of college football is that just like in anything else, getting to the top is hard and staying there is even harder.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: HawgWyld on October 06, 2017, 09:57:57 am
Oh, you can bet your house that a segment of this place would bitch about a 9-4 record. I wouldn't. As I said, I'd be extremely pleased. We could win the National Championship and that same segment would bitch about something. It's not even Arkansas football at that point, it's just the kind of people they are in general.
That might be the safest bet available when it comes to Arkansas football...

Still, I'd hope that the overwhelming majority of fans would be thrilled if 9 or 10 wins in a season was a realistic goal. So far, that kind of record not been realistic with Bielema and the Hogs -- more often than not -- look decidedly below average by SEC standards. I don't know if fans are just prone to complain or if a 10-23 SEC record under Bielema has riled them.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Deep Shoat on October 06, 2017, 09:59:10 am
Play a 13th game (bowl) and that 8.5 turns into 9.2 wins per season.  Beilema, including bowls, is winning 6.25 per season.  How in the world can anyone say a 9-4 record and 6-7 are similar? 

You want to take away his first season because you think it shouldn't be held against him?  Okay, then in seasons 2-4 he went 22-17.  That's an average season of 7-6.  Take away Petrino's first year and his average season was 10-3.

It can be done at Arkansas, but it isn't being done.  This is year five.  That's long enough to make an evaluation of a coach.
The point, which you so casually and repeatedly reject, is that, over time, Arkansas returns to the mean.  Even under Broyles, the standard by which we judge all others.  Petrino would have done the same.  He might have had some higher highs.  He is a great play caller.  But he would have had some lower lows.  He is a horrible human being.

If you think 5 years is enough stability to build something, go take a look at the results of that mindset over the 25 years Arkansas has been in the SEC.  Take a look at just this conference.  Almost no one fires a coach and makes a better hire.  Almost no one fires a coach and wins fast enough for their fans to be content.   The number of coaches, NCAA wide, who have come in and turned a program around in 5 years is tiny.  And most of them, by the end of that 5 years, are falling off.  Because other than perfect marriages like Saban and Bama, Carrol at USC, that crap doesn't work.  The programs who sustain at a better than good rate are those who keep a coach long term. 
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hogsanity on October 06, 2017, 10:01:36 am
The point, which you so casually and repeatedly reject, is that, over time, Arkansas returns to the mean.  Even under Broyles, the standard by which we judge all others.  Petrino would have done the same.  He might have had some higher highs.  He is a great play caller.  But he would have had some lower lows.  He is a horrible human being.

If you think 5 years is enough stability to build something, go take a look at the results of that mindset over the 25 years Arkansas has been in the SEC.  Take a look at just this conference.  Almost no one fires a coach and makes a better hire.  Almost no one fires a coach and wins fast enough for their fans to be content.   The number of coaches, NCAA wide, who have come in and turned a program around in 5 years is tiny.  And most of them, by the end of that 5 years, are falling off.  Because other than perfect marriages like Saban and Bama, Carrol at USC, that crap doesn't work.  The programs who sustain at a better than good rate are those who keep a coach long term. 

Give up with East, he has a shrine to BP in his man cave, a poster of him above his bed, and picture of Bp's harley on his dashaboard.  He thinks Arkansas football did not really begin until 2009.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hawgon on October 06, 2017, 10:02:43 am
The point, which you so casually and repeatedly reject, is that, over time, Arkansas returns to the mean.  Even under Broyles, the standard by which we judge all others.  Petrino would have done the same.  He might have had some higher highs.  He is a great play caller.  But he would have had some lower lows.  He is a horrible human being.

If you think 5 years is enough stability to build something, go take a look at the results of that mindset over the 25 years Arkansas has been in the SEC.  Take a look at just this conference.  Almost no one fires a coach and makes a better hire.  Almost no one fires a coach and wins fast enough for their fans to be content.   The number of coaches, NCAA wide, who have come in and turned a program around in 5 years is tiny.  And most of them, by the end of that 5 years, are falling off.  Because other than perfect marriages like Saban and Bama, Carrol at USC, that crap doesn't work.  The programs who sustain at a better than good rate are those who keep a coach long term.

We kept Nutt for ten.  What did that get us?
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Hogs-n-Roses on October 06, 2017, 10:13:13 am
How many years did Frank's Hogs finish in the top 25??

How many years did Lou Holtz's Hogs finish in the Top 25??

How man years did Hatfield's Hogs finish in the top 25??
All time the hogs are 22nd  in being ranked   well 1936-2017
appearances in top 10- 18th
appearances in top 5  - 27th
appearances in top 2  - 23rd
appearances at #1     - 41st
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hawgon on October 06, 2017, 10:16:00 am
All time the hogs are 22nd  in being ranked   well 1936-2017
appearances in top 10- 18th
appearances in top 5  - 27th
appearances in top 2  - 23rd
appearances at #1     - 41st

So even by that standard, Bert is underperforming.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hogsanity on October 06, 2017, 10:19:08 am
All time the hogs are 22nd  in being ranked   well 1936-2017
appearances in top 10- 18th
appearances in top 5  - 27th
appearances in top 2  - 23rd
appearances at #1     - 41st

how many of those are since joining the SEC? 3 or 4 in 25 seasons?
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hogsanity on October 06, 2017, 10:21:05 am
We kept Nutt for ten.  What did that get us?

well in his last 2 seasons they won 18 games, appeared in the SECCG.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Deep Shoat on October 06, 2017, 10:24:58 am
well in his last 2 seasons they won 18 games, appeared in the SECCG.
And that was while he was wrecking team morale, carrying on an affair, texting her during games, and running an offense designed by Tecmo Bowl.  Imagine if he had actually been a hard worker and adaptable coach.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: The ColonelHog on October 06, 2017, 10:28:51 am
Let's dig into your thought and see if that is really true.

Frank Broyles, the standard by which all are measured - 144-58-5 for a .696 winning percentage at Arkansas.

Lou Holtz - 60-21-2 for a .723 winning percentage.

Ken Hatfield - 55-17-1 for a .753 winning percentage.

Bobby Petrino - 34-17 for a .667 winning percentage.

Add all that up and we have a .708 winning percentage from our best coaches.  That adds up to just under 8.5 wins per season adjusted for a 12 game schedule.  Still clearly within our statistical average. 

Historically, we are a pretty good team.  Not great. 

That doesn't mean I'm satisfied with Coach B's current winning percentage.  For me, what it means, is we need to show patience and allow a good coach, which Bielema has proven to be, the time to build.  The whole "swap coaches every five years until you get lucky" is so clearly a failure of a way to build a program, yet Arkansas fans keep begging for it.

I'm starting to wonder if CBB is going to get it done here, too.  But based on the statistical REALITY of who we ARE, and the proven failure of the "five years is long enough" approach,  I believe patience is the only option, stability is the only hope for Arkansas to reach the next tier.

I just donít get it!  PATIENCE?  4 years a 4 games into year 5 and we are witnessing the exact same as we did in year two.  I also donít agree with your 5 year comment because I have seen a lot of programs get rid of a coach and actually improve.  As much as we hate to admit it, coaching changes are crap shoots and thatís just the nature of sports, see the NFL, NBA, and even CBB..  But it is totally unacceptable to retain a coach who has proven his product isnít very good.  Do you expect him to wake up in year 8 or 9 and all of a sudden get it?  ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!  He is not a good coach and never was!  ALVAREZ was running that program and still is.  AND, his new minions average 3 more wins a season than B.B. could muster.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Hogs-n-Roses on October 06, 2017, 10:34:25 am
So even by that standard, Bert is underperforming.
Well lots of teams are under those standards. We set the bar pretty high for ourselves in the old days. And all the posters are right in their analysis that the SEC has been brutal on us(and others). Its also been brutal for many of its founding members. Even the upper eschelon of the SEC have had several very down periods. Some were self inflicted, Bama during a few probation periods. Auburn,Fla.,LSU had decades where they weren't relavent at all.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Hogs-n-Roses on October 06, 2017, 10:48:19 am
how many of those are since joining the SEC? 3 or 4 in 25 seasons?
Yes  Some other interesting figures are that Bama all time is 5th,LSU 10th, Fla. 11th,Tenn. 12th,Ga.14th, AU 15th, A$M 18th.,Ark was 20th instead of 22nd.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Deep Shoat on October 06, 2017, 10:48:57 am
I just donít get it!  PATIENCE?  4 years a 4 games into year 5 and we are witnessing the exact same as we did in year two.  I also donít agree with your 5 year comment because I have seen a lot of programs get rid of a coach and actually improve.  As much as we hate to admit it, coaching changes are crap shoots and thatís just the nature of sports, see the NFL, NBA, and even CBB..  But it is totally unacceptable to retain a coach who has proven his product isnít very good.  Do you expect him to wake up in year 8 or 9 and all of a sudden get it?  ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!  He is not a good coach and never was!  ALVAREZ was running that program and still is.  AND, his new minions average 3 more wins a season than B.B. could muster.
Doesn't matter whether you agree.  It is absolute fact, when you look at more than a few anecdotes, that the 5-year hire/fire cycle is an abject failure.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Deep Shoat on October 06, 2017, 10:52:19 am
Also, unlike many of you, I don't think it's about Coach B "getting it".  He proved he was the real deal at Wisconsin.  IMHO, we WILL get there once the OL solidifies and we become comfortable in the 3-4.  The OL deal is a combination of adjusting the type of athlete he needs coupled with the complete shift from mauler coaching to technical coaching.

the D is just a matter of time.  I believe we are recruiting well enough to win with the last couple of classes. 
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: The ColonelHog on October 06, 2017, 10:53:53 am
And, as long as we are discussing honesty; someone please tell me what long enough and stability in a program is?  Is stability 7, 8 years and constant 7-6 records to go along with fights in the locker room making it out to the public?  None of this is what I call stability or success.  This season provided a golden opportunity for this program to take a step forward and I expect it to or BB should be GONE!  The SEC as we knew it is no more.  Look at the teams in the West:

1.  Bama:  well, no need to address them, same song different verse.
2.  aTm:  Dumpster Fire who had a freshman QB who canít hit the broad side of a barn.
3.  LSU:  Oh my goodness what a mess!
4.  Ole Miss:  just pitiful and going to get worse.
5.  Auburn:  Nice team, played the champs to an 8 pt loss.
6.  Miss St:  Not the world beater displayed against a terrible LSU team.

So tell me again why we should not go 9-3 this season.  We should not have lost to TCU, I donít care where they are ranked right now.  We should not have lost to aTm.  Losing to Bama, Auburn, and LSU was acceptable to me but now losing to LSU isnít!  If BB canít will this team to 8-4 this season he should be toast!
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Vantage 8 dude on October 06, 2017, 10:57:00 am
And, as long as we are discussing honesty; someone please tell me what long enough and stability in a program is?  Is stability 7, 8 years and constant 7-6 records to go along with fights in the locker room making it out to the public?  None of this is what I call stability or success.  This season provided a golden opportunity for this program to take a step forward and I expect it to or BB should be GONE!  The SEC as we knew it is no more.  Look at the teams in the West:

1.  Bama:  well, no need to address them, same song different verse.
2.  aTm:  Dumpster Fire who had a freshman QB who canít hit the broad side of a barn.
3.  LSU:  Oh my goodness what a mess!
4.  Ole Miss:  just pitiful and going to get worse.
5.  Auburn:  Nice team, played the champs to an 8 pt loss.
6.  Miss St:  Not the world beater displayed against a terrible LSU team.

So tell me again why we should not go 9-3 this season.  We should not have lost to TCU, I donít care where they are ranked right now.  We should not have lost to aTm.  Losing to Bama, Auburn, and LSU was acceptable to me but now losing to LSU isnít!  If BB canít will this team to 8-4 this season he should be toast!
While I'll most certainly agree that (again) we should have beaten TAM, still trying to form a firm opinion about TCU. As for future SEC games this season I prefer to wait and let things unfold before rendering further judgement.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: The ColonelHog on October 06, 2017, 11:01:37 am
Doesn't matter whether you agree.  It is absolute fact, when you look at more than a few anecdotes, that the 5-year hire/fire cycle is an abject failure.

So replacing a coach after 5 seasons whoís win ceiling is 7 games has proven to be an abject failure?  What would you call a coach with a 27-28 overall and 10-23 conference record?  My friend thatís called an abject failure on any standard.  Iím just saying, the longer he stays, because nothing is going to improve, the longer itís going to take to right the ship.  This season should end as a minimum 8-4 and a bowl game.  If he canít pull that off against an obviously putrid SEC this season, he NEVER will!
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: HawgWyld on October 06, 2017, 11:02:30 am
Also, unlike many of you, I don't think it's about Coach B "getting it".  He proved he was the real deal at Wisconsin.  IMHO, we WILL get there once the OL solidifies and we become comfortable in the 3-4.  The OL deal is a combination of adjusting the type of athlete he needs coupled with the complete shift from mauler coaching to technical coaching.

the D is just a matter of time.  I believe we are recruiting well enough to win with the last couple of classes. 

I suppose how much faith one puts in Bielema has to do with whether one believes a run-oriented offense is appropriate in the SEC. Frankly, his declaration at the press conference where Bielema was announced as the new head coach that Arkansas was going to feature a "downhill running" offense concerned me greatly. That comment was a bit too Nuttish...
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Hogs-n-Roses on October 06, 2017, 11:11:41 am
So replacing a coach after 5 seasons who’s win ceiling is 7 games has proven to be an abject failure?  What would you call a coach with a 27-28 overall and 10-23 conference record?  My friend that’s called an abject failure on any standard.  I’m just saying, the longer he stays, because nothing is going to improve, the longer it’s going to take to right the ship.  This season should end as a minimum 8-4 and a bowl game.  If he can’t pull that off against an obviously putrid SEC this season, he NEVER will!
It has been a miserable failure so far. But such is the life for many in the SEC. The other side has valid points. We don't know but what this thing might turn around in a couple of years and take off and us be the next Va. Tech. I have argued for the 4-5 year trial then move on system after the Nutt ordeal. It just looked to me like he could never get us out of the 25 year SEC drought. Who knows. Its all speculation. The coach B. way may get it done. We may hire the next Bobby P. out there whos not as arrogant and realizes he needs a real defense , hires the right D-co. and off we go.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: hogsanity on October 06, 2017, 11:12:57 am
Yes  Some other interesting figures are that Bama all time is 5th,LSU 10th, Fla. 11th,Tenn. 12th,Ga.14th, AU 15th, A$M 18th.,Ark was 20th instead of 22nd.

So, in terms of all time season being ranked, the Hogs at 20 are still 8th in the SEC.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: The ColonelHog on October 06, 2017, 11:19:30 am
I suppose how much faith one puts in Bielema has to do with whether one believes a run-oriented offense is appropriate in the SEC. Frankly, his declaration at the press conference where Bielema was announced as the new head coach that Arkansas was going to feature a "downhill running" offense concerned me greatly. That comment was a bit too Nuttish...

It sounded a little Nuttish but I was all in.  LSU has been doing it for years.  I jumped off his boat for good after Toledo.  And now the O Line is a mess, the special teams are not special, and he just doesnít get the fact that he MUST have speed to compete in the SEC.  All of these players are his and they just donít look good to me.  He has HIS team and we are still discussing the same topics we were in year two.  What gives?
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: The ColonelHog on October 06, 2017, 11:36:23 am
Folks Iím not dilusional and think UA should be playing for nattys every season.  I donít.  I predicted 9-3 this season and I didnít, and even more so now, think that was asking too much.  9-3 in the SEC puts us in the top 15-20 range.  With the resources and facilities we have at UA, we should be a constant member in the top 20 while approaching top 10 level every 4 or 5 years.  Top 20 is relavent in my mind.  Has anyone looked at 15-25 this season?  San Jose State!  Are you kidding me!  No folks, I donít have on rose colored glasses expecting to unseat Bama, itís not going to happen as long as Saban is there but Iíd be THRILLED with 9-3 and looking forward to upsetting an Auburn or LSU every season.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Hogs-n-Roses on October 06, 2017, 11:37:03 am
So, in terms of all time season being ranked, the Hogs at 20 are still 8th in the SEC.
yes, You know all the other usual characters. tOSU,Okla., Texas,Mich.,USC,FL. State,Penn State, Notre Dame,Nebraska.....
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: HawgWyld on October 06, 2017, 11:42:30 am
It sounded a little Nuttish but I was all in.  LSU has been doing it for years.  I jumped off his boat for good after Toledo.  And now the O Line is a mess, the special teams are not special, and he just doesnít get the fact that he MUST have speed to compete in the SEC.  All of these players are his and they just donít look good to me.  He has HIS team and we are still discussing the same topics we were in year two.  What gives?

The primary problem so far is that the Razorbacks just don't look competitive in the SEC. Will Bielema get us to that point? I doubt it, but I well understand why some people are saying fans should be patient and wait -- like it or not, the chances are good that we'll have Bielema next year (at least). In this kind of environment, then, fans can either gripe or hope for the best.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Hogs-n-Roses on October 06, 2017, 12:01:38 pm
Some other honest figures that get played both ways round here. SWC vs SEC. 58% SEC wins vs 42 % SWC. I didn't think the SWC had a 42 % win ratio. Thought it was worse. There were 17 ties. Didn't know how to figure that in.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: From Tusk Till Dawn on October 06, 2017, 02:13:04 pm
The SEC is down this year but...  we are in the SEC.  So whenever the rest of conference is down that means we should automatically be better (when our recruiting rankings are middle of pack at best)?

Seasons not over folks, lots of ball to play.  I think everyone agrees SC is a must win so looking fwd to a good game.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Deep Shoat on October 06, 2017, 02:45:38 pm
I suppose how much faith one puts in Bielema has to do with whether one believes a run-oriented offense is appropriate in the SEC. Frankly, his declaration at the press conference where Bielema was announced as the new head coach that Arkansas was going to feature a "downhill running" offense concerned me greatly. That comment was a bit too Nuttish...
I believe you don't win titles unless you can run the ball and play defense.  I don't mean run the ball exclusively, and neither does Coach B.  He's always been about balance.  He may not succeed here.  But if we bring in some weak sauce Air Raid style coach, we are done. 
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: The ColonelHog on October 06, 2017, 08:37:02 pm
I believe you don't win titles unless you can run the ball and play defense.  I don't mean run the ball exclusively, and neither does Coach B.  He's always been about balance.  He may not succeed here.  But if we bring in some weak sauce Air Raid style coach, we are done.

How do you know?  It seemed to work for Ole Miss against Bama!  Of course, until this year.  The bottom line is this.  We are not going to get the talent Bama, Auburn, and GA get so itís going to take an innovative offense and some creativity to compete with them.  We will NEVER line up and play smash mouth and do it, period.....
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: gchamblee on October 06, 2017, 08:46:41 pm
How do you know?  It seemed to work for Ole Miss against Bama!  Of course, until this year.  The bottom line is this.  We are not going to get the talent Bama, Auburn, and GA get so itís going to take an innovative offense and some creativity to compete with them.  We will NEVER line up and play smash mouth and do it, period.....

johnny football worked against bama along with incredible luck. throwing the ball every down is not innovative so quit using that word.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: BigE_23 on October 06, 2017, 08:48:39 pm
I believe you don't win titles unless you can run the ball and play defense.  I don't mean run the ball exclusively, and neither does Coach B.  He's always been about balance.  He may not succeed here.  But if we bring in some weak sauce Air Raid style coach, we are done. 

He may not succeed here?? HE ISN'T SUCCEEDING HERE!!!!

And please define "weak sauce air raid coach"?? First of all, who's advocating that we go to an air raid offense? But second, do you mean a coach like the one we fired who was doing great here, or the ones that are currently doing well across the country (Gundy, Leach, etc.)??
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: gchamblee on October 06, 2017, 09:00:24 pm
He may not succeed here?? HE ISN'T SUCCEEDING HERE!!!!

And please define "weak sauce air raid coach"?? First of all, who's advocating that we go to an air raid offense? But second, do you mean a coach like the one we fired who was doing great here, or the ones that are currently doing well across the country (Gundy, Leach, etc.)??

lol. drama queen
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: BigE_23 on October 06, 2017, 09:22:08 pm
lol. drama queen

(http://i63.tinypic.com/167rvv8.jpg)

Really?
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: JaketheSnake on October 06, 2017, 09:44:05 pm
NYJMSU.  What I just said is almost exactly how Gary Patterson has been doing it at TCU and not one single person on this board would not trade what we have for that.
NINJMSU.  People get tired of waiting on the microwave.  If coaches don't win this weekend, then part of the fan base will be calling for heads.  Any school...
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: BigE_23 on October 06, 2017, 09:52:57 pm
NINJMSU.  People get tired of waiting on the microwave.  If coaches don't win this weekend, then part of the fan base will be calling for heads.  Any school...

I don't disagree with you that fans can tend to get impatient...but what we've experienced in the past few years at Arkansas under Bert is unique.

For instance, losses to inferior opponents, second half collapses, numerous 50+ blowout losses (the most recent in his 4th year) and the fact that he is 0-5 against a historical rival are all things that make our situation a little bit different, wouldn't you say?
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: JaketheSnake on October 06, 2017, 09:56:54 pm
I don't disagree with you that fans can tend to get impatient...but what we've experienced in the past few years at Arkansas under Bert is unique.

For instance, losses to inferior opponents, second half collapses, numerous 50+ blowout losses (the most recent in his 4th year) and the fact that he is 0-5 against a historical rival are all things that make our situation a little bit different, wouldn't you say?
Not disagreeing with this at all.  But if/when we can him, we all know there is no anonymous choice to replace, so a small percentage of the fan base is already against him.  Then he loses a game and that number grows, and the original haters come on here touting  that they saw this coming, yada yada yada.  We need to be more patient.  Is 5 years enough to really rebuild a program in bad shape?  I don't get paid enough to answer that. Will it be after CBB is gone? 
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: The ColonelHog on October 07, 2017, 09:55:34 am
johnny football worked against bama along with incredible luck. throwing the ball every down is not innovative so quit using that word.

Well if you watch more than just Arkansas football, the word ďinnovativeĒ is used when discussing how the ďbetterĒ offensive coaches take advantage of motion, known mismatches, creativity in running sets, and how to put an offense in a position to benefit from their strengths against a defenseís weaknesses.  My post had nothing to do with throwing the ball every down as there are ZERO teams in CFB or the NFL that throw the ball every down.  Some teams throw to enable running and some run to enable throwing.  I donít have a preference either way as long as it works.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: HoginMemphis on October 07, 2017, 09:59:11 am
While we are being honest versus our usually dishonest nature here, Hogville will turn into Meltdown Central if the Hogs lose to this bad SC team. And winning this game will not make Bielema's job any more secure but losing it will certainly secure the loss of his current job at season's end.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: The ColonelHog on October 07, 2017, 10:05:39 am
Oh, and Iíll say it again, I think we win today and should win all but 2 remaining games.  If not, Iíll keep my pitch fork sharp!  WPS!!!  You see, Iím a fan of the Hogs, not ANY coach with a 10-23 conference record, like a lot on the site!  Some are so wrapped up in a man crush with the coach that they are willing to sacrifice our beloved Hogs for him.  Just being honest!
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Vantage 8 dude on October 07, 2017, 10:10:25 am
While we are being honest versus our usually dishonest nature here, Hogville will turn into Meltdown Central if the Hogs lose to this bad SC team. And winning this game will not make Bielema's job any more secure but losing it will certainly secure the loss of his current job at season's end.
Well, well I honestly can't believe that you and I are actually agreeing on something for a (huge) change. I suppose that means that indeed miracles DO still happen. ;)
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Vantage 8 dude on October 07, 2017, 10:18:52 am
Oh, and Iíll say it again, I think we win today and should win all but 2 remaining games.  If not, Iíll keep my pitch fork sharp!  WPS!!!  You see, Iím a fan of the Hogs, not ANY coach with a 10-23 conference record, like a lot on the site!  Some are so wrapped up in a man crush with the coach that they are willing to sacrifice our beloved Hogs for him.  Just being honest!
Sorry, but just because some of us want to see the coach, and this does NOT just mean CBB, succeed for the sake of the team and program this somehow classifies us as having a "man crush" on said individual? I have no particular personal feelings, except he seems to be a pretty nice guy, concerning Bret. If he does well then obviously I'm happy and hope we can retain him as long as possible. However, it he doesn't then it very well may be time to move on. In the meantime I'll continue to support my alma mater, team and staff (as I've always tried to do) because that's who we're working with at the moment. If that qualifies as a "man crush" in your eyes then so be it. However, if it does then I really could give a damn.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: gchamblee on October 07, 2017, 12:00:02 pm
While we are being honest versus our usually dishonest nature here, Hogville will turn into Meltdown Central if the Hogs lose to this bad SC team. And winning this game will not make Bielema's job any more secure but losing it will certainly secure the loss of his current job at season's end.

no need to announce your intentions for next week. everyone here knows youre going to have hatesex with jeff and bret in every thread regardless of what happens today.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Vantage 8 dude on October 07, 2017, 12:04:00 pm
no need to announce your intentions for next week. everyone here knows youre going to have hatesex with jeff and bret in every thread regardless of what happens today.
One thing far more predictable than the sun rising in the east, setting in the west. Nice to know some things can most definitely be counted on no matter what.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: HognitiveDissonance on October 07, 2017, 12:49:58 pm
They would have to repeat 2015 and close the season on a hot note. Won 6 of 7 in 2015.
After the Auburn game, it is certainly possible, considering the way LSU is playing. All those games are 'winnable'.
Do something like that and a lot of people would climb back on the wagon.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: EulessHog on October 07, 2017, 12:54:40 pm
They would have to repeat 2015 and close the season on a hot note. Won 6 of 7 in 2015.
After the Auburn game, it is certainly possible, considering the way LSU is playing. All those games are 'winnable'.
Do something like that and a lot of people would climb back on the wagon.

3 or 4 wins this year will get Long fired for negotiating such a miserable deal.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: HiggiePiggy on October 07, 2017, 04:00:46 pm
3 or 4 wins this year will get Long fired for negotiating such a miserable deal.

Wish it would, but I doubt it. 
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: HoginMemphis on October 07, 2017, 04:45:36 pm
These two teams may be worst in SEC. I just spent an entire weekend watching first half of this game. I've been more entertained watching grass grow. These two teams are horrible in every phase and area of the game. Do they even practice?
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: Ex-Trumpet on October 07, 2017, 04:47:56 pm
These two teams may be worst in SEC. I just spent an entire weekend watching first half of this game. I've been more entertained watching grass grow. These two teams are horrible in every phase and area of the game. Do they even practice?

Just texted my brother the same thing...this game is an exercise in futility.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: ICEman on October 07, 2017, 04:52:02 pm
We will get the requisite Ďrearranging of the deck chairsí in terms of a few position coach changes then rinse and repeat for 2018.
Title: Re: If we are being Honest...
Post by: StanHog on October 07, 2017, 04:57:58 pm
Winning, regardless of how it occurs is the most measurable of all concepts.

Win 9 and the masses are on board.

Win 8 and the masses are, "what if"? Despite the fact that this is who we are as a program over time since joining the SEC.

Many long for the results of the Petrino era but we honestly don't know what that might have produced over a more extended period of time.

Would they have been good with 7-8 wins for two years in a row and every other two years being 9, 10 or 11 wins? Probably.

Eventually, not getting to the SECCG would have been a measuring stick, but in the meantime, everyone would have been happy. But when it eventually came down to not getting to the SECCG everyone would have turned on Petrino as well. No one wants to admit that because we never reached that juncture and no one wants to admit the truth. But eventually, they would have turned on BP as well.

Let's face it, getting to the SECCG is the true measuring stick for this program just like it is for every other SEC program but it isn't likely that we will ever reach that point.
Even though he didn't make the SECCG CBP's teams were exciting to watch. This crap is not watchable most weeks. Fire Jeff Long!!