Hogville

RB Sports Discussion => Monday Morning Quarterback => Topic started by: jcbville on October 02, 2017, 05:20:32 pm

Title: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: jcbville on October 02, 2017, 05:20:32 pm
Have a look at this. LMAO Tiger Rant losing it over "O" The Rosy Finch Boyz, LLC

"LSU’s contract is actually with “O” The Rosy Finch Boyz, LLC, which was incorporated last January when he got the job. It lists as its officers Ed Orgeron, his wife Kelly and New Orleans attorney William Neilson. It runs through 2021 and pays him about $3.5 million per year, with various incentives, plus benefits such as membership in the University Club of Baton Rouge and a $2,000-per month carer’s allowance.

If Orgeron is fired “without cause” (namely for losing too much rather than NCAA violations or legal issues) prior to Nov. 28 of each year, then he is owed $12 million this year, $8.5 million next, $6 million in 2019, $4.5 million in 2020 and $1 million in 2021. Those numbers are “minus compensation paid during the terminating year.” So subtract $3.5 million pro-rated at however many months he’s worked that year."

https://sports.yahoo.com/lsu-stuck-ed-orgeron-184838225.html
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: tusked on October 02, 2017, 05:21:56 pm

Moving up the ladder in the SEC is ripe for the taking.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: onebadrubi on October 02, 2017, 05:27:54 pm
I'd be more shocked if more coaches didn't have LLC's setup for their contracts.  It's a formality most likely done for protection along with taxation.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: jcbville on October 02, 2017, 05:29:43 pm
I'd be more shocked if more coaches didn't have LLC's setup for their contracts.  It's a formality most likely done for protection along with taxation.

Yeah they're more hung up on the name of the LLC, how it looks now with the actual contract, and how it should have been a clue to where this was heading. Lol
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: HogPharmer on October 02, 2017, 05:31:13 pm
I know we fans have not been too thrilled with the start of our team this year, but I can only imagine what it's like to be in Baton Rouge right now... Have to admit, it puts a smile on my face every time I think about them losing to Troy.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: jcbville on October 02, 2017, 05:32:55 pm
I know we fans have not been too thrilled with the start of our team this year, but I can only imagine what it's like to be in Baton Rouge right now... Have to admit, it puts a smile on my face every time I think about them losing to Troy.

I enjoyed the LSU and Tenn games so very much this weekend.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: onebadrubi on October 02, 2017, 05:34:24 pm
Yeah they're more hung up on the name of the LLC, how it looks now with the actual contract, and how it should have been a clue to where this was heading. Lol

What would be really funny is if there is one of those clauses were if he were fired, his buyout would be reduced by that Rosy Finch Boys income, well if Rosy Finch is then unemployed because Rosy Finch Boys II is now employed by X university.  A lot of loop holes are created by using that.  Again, as much money as the guys are making, they have smart attorneys, lawyers, and tax help on retainer, I'd be extremely shocked if more aren't setup this way or going that way.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Cinco de Hogo on October 02, 2017, 05:39:13 pm
Is this like fake news or something!
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: jcbville on October 02, 2017, 05:46:12 pm
Is this like fake news or something!

Lol nope. Thought it was a joke at first too. Its so good.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: PorcineSublime on October 02, 2017, 05:50:28 pm
Wonder if he has a family member that requires a sitter/caregiver or if the carer's is a misprint for car?
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Seebs on October 02, 2017, 05:51:34 pm
I am doing an evil mustache twist as i write this -
So my highly recruited son is riding the pine at LSU. He has proof of his illegal recruiting from Ogeron. He approaches a booster and lets him know he will spill the beans for a mere $5MM. The booster kicks it upstairs. Another Ole Miss scenario happens and they terminate Coach O on the cheap and with cause. Everybody is a winner.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: jcbville on October 02, 2017, 06:12:10 pm
Haha

Link to the Tiger Droppings thread. Its worth a visit.

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/lsu-sports/o-the-rosy-finch-boyz-llc-updated-with-pics/72576603/page-4/
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: 007 License To Squeal on October 02, 2017, 06:13:43 pm
"O" THE ROSY FINCH BOYZ, L.L.C.

Company Number
42524010K
Status
Active In Good Standing
Incorporation Date
17 January 2017 (9 months ago)
Company Type
Limited Liability Company
Jurisdiction
Louisiana (US)
Agent Name
WILLIAM A. NEILSON, SR
Agent Address
NEILSON-SPAULDING, LLC, 1100 POYDRAS ST, SUITE 2100, NEW ORLEANS, LA 701632100
Directors / Officers
EDWARD J. ORGERON, JR, member
KELLY L. ORGERON, member
WILLIAM A. NEILSON, SR, agent, 21 Mar 2017-
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Fort Dweller on October 02, 2017, 06:42:02 pm
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: NuttinItUp on October 02, 2017, 07:03:19 pm
Haha

Link to the Tiger Droppings thread. Its worth a visit.

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/lsu-sports/o-the-rosy-finch-boyz-llc-updated-with-pics/72576603/page-4/

Some of those pics are hilarious.

(https://i.imgur.com/rLAxG5O.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/EfbfHfd.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/TLUuB8u.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/H6hzr5t.jpg)
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: PonderinHog on October 02, 2017, 07:17:14 pm
Yo!  That's bad!

(http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Sylvester-Stallone-Facepalm.gif)
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: PorkSoda on October 02, 2017, 07:32:11 pm
man, the SEC west is collapsing.  its a shell of its former self.  is Alabama the only SEC west program not on life support?
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: greenEGnHAWGS on October 02, 2017, 07:48:40 pm

Ha ha...is it weird that I found this strangely hilarious...
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: PorkRinds on October 02, 2017, 07:50:12 pm
man, the SEC west is collapsing.  its a shell of its former self.  is Alabama the only SEC west program not on life support?

INO bama has killed the rest of the conference. No one wants to go to school in the
SEC west. It's easier to go to the playoff at Clemson, FSU, OU than it is to go to any school other than bama in the SEC west.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: greasy_corner on October 02, 2017, 09:50:43 pm
INO bama has killed the rest of the conference. No one wants to go to school in the
SEC west. It's easier to go to the playoff at Clemson, FSU, OU than it is to go to any school other than bama in the SEC west.

It's definitely not a CFB division for the lazy, unmotivated, stubborn, poorly prepared, and weak-minded coaches.

Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Großer Kriegschwein on October 02, 2017, 09:55:16 pm
man, the SEC west is collapsing.  its a shell of its former self.  is Alabama the only SEC west program not on life support?

Pretty much.

The only other team in the west to match Alabama on the field in the last 5 years has been Auburn when they went to the BCS NCG.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Drop the Mike on October 02, 2017, 09:56:24 pm
Alleva must have read about Bielema's buyout and said "Hold my beer".
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: factchecker on October 02, 2017, 10:00:43 pm
Ha ha...is it weird that I found this strangely hilarious...

It's a redo of the original:

Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: PorkSoda on October 02, 2017, 10:10:02 pm
Pretty much.

The only other team in the west to match Alabama on the field in the last 5 years has been Auburn when they went to the BCS NCG.

still, it used to be competitive, especially for the 2 and 3 spot.  now TAMU wants to fire Sumlin, OM is about to get the death penalty, LSU lost to troy, we suck worse than the aggies, and MSU barely mediocre.  There have even been grumblings at Auburn, but everyone else sucks so bad, they are the default #2 behind bama.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Großer Kriegschwein on October 02, 2017, 10:34:06 pm
still, it used to be competitive, especially for the 2 and 3 spot.  now TAMU wants to fire Sumlin, OM is about to get the death penalty, LSU lost to troy, we suck worse than the aggies, and MSU barely mediocre.  There have even been grumblings at Auburn, but everyone else sucks so bad, they are the default #2 behind bama.

Florida: Same QB problems that have bothered their roster since Muschamp.

USCe: They will not see the same level of success again for 20 years. They have historically been somewhere above Kentucky/Vanderbilt and will remain there indefinitely. There isn't another Holtz/Spurrier coming to coach there.

Kentucky: They are a little bit better and now all their basketball fans are thinking they know something about football but the doosh I work with doesn't even know the difference between a Draw and a Counter. That's the problem with KY football. If they start to suck, they will just start watching basketball.

Mississipi State: They share the bottom two spots in the West with Ole Miss. They are better than they have historically been in the past. Mullen will leave and nobody will want to come in and coach them because Mullen couldn't even with the division.

Ole Miss: I think this pretty much speaks for itself.

aTm: They are building the same problems that Mack did at Texas and it's showing on the field.

Alabama:  I think this pretty much speaks for itself.

Auburn: Giving the fans a taste ever couple years won't let Gus keep his job. They will be rid of him within 3 years if he doesn't beat Alabama or win the conference.

Georgia: Solid team and very efficient defense. They will win the East this year, and it isn't close.

Vanderbilt: is still Vanderbilt.

Tennessee: will probably sue Butch Jones for defamation after their last game. They are still putting together the lawsuit.

Missouri: They are hanging out down there with Kentucky and Vanderbilt lately. Missin some Pinkel.

LSU: Ole Miss made the mistake of hiring Ed Orgeron and it didn't work. USCw had a little success with him but remembered that Ole Miss had already made that mistake and passed. Alleva apparently decided that USCw & Ole Miss were wrong. Alleva will be looking for a new job on November 1st.

 
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: NuttinItUp on October 02, 2017, 10:38:11 pm
It's a redo of the original:


Gawdammit that is still hilarious all these years later.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: 31to6 on October 02, 2017, 10:57:01 pm

(https://i.imgur.com/TLUuB8u.jpg)

There is no doubt in my mind, whatsover, that this is *exactly* how the pitch to the LSU BoT went down.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: NuttinItUp on October 02, 2017, 11:04:20 pm
There is no doubt in my mind, whatsover, that this is *exactly* how the pitch to the LSU BoT went down.


Them crazy Rosy Finch Boyz.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: HardCore on October 03, 2017, 06:45:20 am
At least their AD was intelligent enough to make the roll over date Nov 28.  Our pathetic excuse for an AD wasn’t even bright enough to give himself THAT leverage.....January 1st???  Give me a break.  At season end, all of the available hot prospects are taken up by that time.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Hog N Bama on October 03, 2017, 07:13:42 am
Wonder when Tiger Bait is going to chime in? Hmmmm ;D
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Großer Kriegschwein on October 03, 2017, 07:17:42 am
.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: hawgon on October 03, 2017, 07:35:15 am
Have a look at this. LMAO Tiger Rant losing it over "O" The Rosy Finch Boyz, LLC

"LSU’s contract is actually with “O” The Rosy Finch Boyz, LLC, which was incorporated last January when he got the job. It lists as its officers Ed Orgeron, his wife Kelly and New Orleans attorney William Neilson. It runs through 2021 and pays him about $3.5 million per year, with various incentives, plus benefits such as membership in the University Club of Baton Rouge and a $2,000-per month carer’s allowance.

If Orgeron is fired “without cause” (namely for losing too much rather than NCAA violations or legal issues) prior to Nov. 28 of each year, then he is owed $12 million this year, $8.5 million next, $6 million in 2019, $4.5 million in 2020 and $1 million in 2021. Those numbers are “minus compensation paid during the terminating year.” So subtract $3.5 million pro-rated at however many months he’s worked that year."

https://sports.yahoo.com/lsu-stuck-ed-orgeron-184838225.html

That is a lot more reasonable than the one Long saddled us with.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Boss Hog in the Arkansas on October 03, 2017, 07:46:27 am
And to make matters worse, they cant afford to fire him because they're still paying Les Miles and wouldn't be able to pay the new coach  :D
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Hog N Bama on October 03, 2017, 07:51:28 am
And to make matters worse, they cant afford to fire him because they're still paying Les Miles and wouldn't be able to pay the new coach  :D
and oil is still cheap  :P
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: AugustaHog on October 03, 2017, 08:27:46 am
At least their AD was intelligent enough to make the roll over date Nov 28.  Our pathetic excuse for an AD wasn’t even bright enough to give himself THAT leverage.....January 1st???  Give me a break.  At season end, all of the available hot prospects are taken up by that time.
Yeah the gigantic, unnecessary buy-out is brutal, but the Jan. 1 reduction date is even worse.  I've said all along that 8 mil is a tough pill to swallow, but that 15 mil albatross is undoable.  If you could get the right boosters on board, perhaps a deal could be worked out to meet in the middle at a date earlier than Jan. 1.  This thing was done by design obviously so I don't think JL will be seeking an out.  JL wanted to be handcuffed to keep CBB around through year 6 and 7.  That's the only explanation for why you would do a deal this bad.  He didn't want external pressure forcing his hand.  It ultimately may be his undoing.  If the ship is righted, then he will be applauded for having the foresight to lock in the time necessary to build a program.  If it continues down this same path, the absurd buy-out will virtually guarantee that he will not be the one to hire the next coach. 
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: onebadrubi on October 03, 2017, 08:29:32 am
That is a lot more reasonable than the one Long saddled us with.

If you take into account the resume of each coach, not a chance in he L l.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: jcbville on October 03, 2017, 08:32:05 am
Ha ha...is it weird that I found this strangely hilarious...

As soon as it got to the CEO bits it was gold lol
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: jcbville on October 03, 2017, 08:35:18 am
Yeah the gigantic, unnecessary buy-out is brutal, but the Jan. 1 reduction date is even worse.  I've said all along that 8 mil is a tough pill to swallow, but that 15 mil albatross is undoable.  If you could get the right boosters on board, perhaps a deal could be worked out to meet in the middle at a date earlier than Jan. 1.  This thing was done by design obviously so I don't think JL will be seeking an out.  JL wanted to be handcuffed to keep CBB around through year 6 and 7.  That's the only explanation for why you would do a deal this bad.  He didn't want external pressure forcing his hand.  It ultimately may be his undoing.  If the ship is righted, then he will be applauded for having the foresight to lock in the time necessary to build a program.  If it continues down this same path, the absurd buy-out will virtually guarantee that he will not be the one to hire the next coach.

If you look at the contract rationally you quickly realize that they negotiated a 7 year deal.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: jcbville on October 03, 2017, 08:36:05 am
If you take into account the resume of each coach, not a chance in he L l.

Also this.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: hawgon on October 03, 2017, 08:49:50 am
If you take into account the resume of each coach, not a chance in he L l.

If you take into account that one is an initial contract and the other was an unnecessary extension awarded after an extremely mediocre season where an already favorable buyout was further sweetened,....you're even more wrong AGAIN.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: jcbville on October 03, 2017, 08:54:08 am
If you take into account that one is an initial contract and the other was an unnecessary extension awarded after an extremely mediocre season where an already favorable buyout was further sweetened,....you're even more wrong AGAIN.

Cant take a break from the butt hurt and laugh at LSU?
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: AugustaHog on October 03, 2017, 09:04:06 am
If you look at the contract rationally you quickly realize that they negotiated a 7 year deal.
No doubt.  JL went all in on CBB.  Only two things can happen and the cards aren't falling his way right now.  I'm just stunned at how little noise we are hearing from the big boy boosters.  Maybe that amplifies if we lose 3 or 4 in October, but typically with this kind of mediocrity, the big dollars are already barking.  Either they are biding their time, scared off by the buy-out, or JL has really convinced them that we are on the verge of something special.  Only time will tell.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: hawgon on October 03, 2017, 09:06:47 am
Cant take a break from the butt hurt and laugh at LSU?

Why would I laugh at LSU when our situation is even worse?  Where several years into the unnecessary extension and the buyout is still three million more than the one for LSU.  It isn't prorated and it has numerous other crappy provisions.

It's sole purpose was to make the firing of Jeff Long's guy more or less impossible for the better part of a decade.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: jcbville on October 03, 2017, 09:07:32 am
No doubt.  JL went all in on CBB.  Only two things can happen and the cards aren't falling his way right now.  I'm just stunned at how little noise we are hearing from the big boy boosters.  Maybe that amplifies if we lose 3 or 4 in October, but typically with this kind of mediocrity, the big dollars are already barking.  Either they are biding their time, scared off by the buy-out, or JL has really convinced them that we are on the verge of something special.  Only time will tell.

This is a very fair summation I think. Jeff Long and the BoT made their bet. Now they're waiting on the turn and the river lol.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: AugustaHog on October 03, 2017, 09:25:42 am
If you take into account that one is an initial contract and the other was an unnecessary extension awarded after an extremely mediocre season where an already favorable buyout was further sweetened,....you're even more wrong AGAIN.
I would venture to say that while they are both absurd and without acceptable reason, "O" was the worse decision.  He has never been anything more than a very good DL coach and recruiter.  He did an admirable job as interim coach at USC and LSU.  It's hard to understand hiring him, much less committing yourself to him for that length of time.  With CBB, at least there was a previous track record of success and promising early signs.  If you had to write a 5 mil dollar check to re-boot and become successful, it's totally worth it.  12-15 mil is just un-thinkable.  I suppose if you had a Saban or Urban, hell maybe even Chris Petersen, you do what it takes to get them committed to you and grin and bear that massive buyout.  That's an incredibly safe investment with all 3 of those guys because they have an elite track record at multiple schools.  As an AD, I know if I put them in a good environment, 10 win seasons are piling up in no time and I'm going to look like a genius.  Nobody will ever sweat that buyout.  With CBB and O's history, that is no such guarantee and that's bearing fruit as we speak.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: onebadrubi on October 03, 2017, 10:37:46 am
If you take into account that one is an initial contract and the other was an unnecessary extension awarded after an extremely mediocre season where an already favorable buyout was further sweetened,....you're even more wrong AGAIN.

It's a complex conversation and deeply complex to discuss the two in the same argument, we see though that you aren't capable of having that conversation. 

I viewed the extension as Bielema getting what he was originally going to get anyways as far as income.  When he came here, he turned down money to put back in to the assistant pool for their salaries.  The extension gave him that and then showed that the AD and BoT along with the program we committed to his rebuild.  It did a swell job of proving just that, whether you like it or not.  At this time he was a proven hot commodity in the industry, viewed as one of the best actually, and he had the national media and most teams around the country talking about arkansas and saying how nobody wanted to play them at that point. 

Buyouts of large sums of money are just becoming the landscape of college football, like it or not.  It's extremely easy to look back now and judge that decision, but you weren't doing it back when it was released.  It similar to questioning trying a QB sneak on 4th and inches, extremely easy after the play is over.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: EastexHawg on October 03, 2017, 10:50:27 am
MSU barely mediocre.

I'm not so sure they are even mediocre.  Everyone took notice because they beat LSU, but as it turns out LSU it absolutely horrible.  In their last two games, when they finally played good teams, Mississippi State has been outscored 79-13.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: EastexHawg on October 03, 2017, 10:55:07 am
No doubt.  JL went all in on CBB.  Only two things can happen and the cards aren't falling his way right now.  I'm just stunned at how little noise we are hearing from the big boy boosters.  Maybe that amplifies if we lose 3 or 4 in October, but typically with this kind of mediocrity, the big dollars are already barking.  Either they are biding their time, scared off by the buy-out, or JL has really convinced them that we are on the verge of something special.  Only time will tell.

If you have been successful enough in life to become a "big boy booster" I think the odds are almost zero that you are going to fall for Long trying to convince you that we are on the verge of something special.  Carnival barkers may be effective in some circumstances and places, but conversations with people who have built multi-million dollar companies aren't among them.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: The NewEra on October 03, 2017, 10:55:11 am
I recorded the LSU game so I could watch it last night.  It is so much fun watching them look terrible.  I can't stand the fanbase or the team.  Watching their administration blow coaching searches, firings and contract negotiations has been icing on the cake.  Pure comedy!
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: jcbville on October 03, 2017, 11:19:46 am
If you have been successful enough in life to become a "big boy booster" I think the odds are almost zero that you are going to fall for Long trying to convince you that we are on the verge of something special.  Carnival barkers may be effective in some circumstances and places, but conversations with people who have built multi-million dollar companies aren't among them.

They are known for having patience and being methodical however.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: GuvHog on October 03, 2017, 11:34:20 am
They are known for having patience and being methodical however.

Try telling Nolan Richardson that.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: AugustaHog on October 03, 2017, 12:25:57 pm
If you have been successful enough in life to become a "big boy booster" I think the odds are almost zero that you are going to fall for Long trying to convince you that we are on the verge of something special.  Carnival barkers may be effective in some circumstances and places, but conversations with people who have built multi-million dollar companies aren't among them.
When you kiss ass as good as JL does, sometimes it works.  People with big egos like having their asses kissed.  You are quite correct in that most people that successful are capable of seeing through the BS.  Anyone with a pulse can see this thing is not rolling along so it would reason that someone with that much success/intelligence can see it too.  Hopefully there are some back-channel things at work that we nobodys aren't privy to knowing.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: jcbville on October 03, 2017, 12:34:21 pm
When you kiss ass as good as JL does, sometimes it works.  People with big egos like having their asses kissed.  You are quite correct in that most people that successful are capable of seeing through the BS.  Anyone with a pulse can see this thing is not rolling along so it would reason that someone with that much success/intelligence can see it too.  Hopefully there are some back-channel things at work that we nobodys aren't privy to knowing.

We, already in this thread, answered the question. The "money" sees the contract for what it is, not the way a section of "fire the guy yesterday" fans see it. The "money" knows that its setup to work itself out on its own and they arent panicked because overall the athletic department is in good shape financially etc so as of right now they're willing to watch it play out and hope it turns around. And if not he'll be gone.   

Where do you guys think the "win 16 games in the next 2 seasons" came from? We made a 7 year deal. We will see what happens.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Cinco de Hogo on October 03, 2017, 01:05:58 pm
When you kiss ass as good as JL does, sometimes it works.  People with big egos like having their asses kissed.  You are quite correct in that most people that successful are capable of seeing through the BS.  Anyone with a pulse can see this thing is not rolling along so it would reason that someone with that much success/intelligence can see it too.  Hopefully there are some back-channel things at work that we nobodys aren't privy to knowing.

Maybe 2nd/3rd generation big boy boasters aren't as smart as the ones who made the money.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: hawgon on October 03, 2017, 05:06:25 pm
It's a complex conversation and deeply complex to discuss the two in the same argument, we see though that you aren't capable of having that conversation. 

I viewed the extension as Bielema getting what he was originally going to get anyways as far as income.  When he came here, he turned down money to put back in to the assistant pool for their salaries.  The extension gave him that and then showed that the AD and BoT along with the program we committed to his rebuild.  It did a swell job of proving just that, whether you like it or not.  At this time he was a proven hot commodity in the industry, viewed as one of the best actually, and he had the national media and most teams around the country talking about arkansas and saying how nobody wanted to play them at that point. 

Buyouts of large sums of money are just becoming the landscape of college football, like it or not.  It's extremely easy to look back now and judge that decision, but you weren't doing it back when it was released.  It similar to questioning trying a QB sneak on 4th and inches, extremely easy after the play is over.

Explain to me how the buyout as structured provided any security to the University of Arkansas to keep their "hot commodity" from taking another job.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: onebadrubi on October 03, 2017, 05:17:55 pm
Explain to me how the buyout as structured provided any security to the University of Arkansas to keep their "hot commodity" from taking another job.

I again, see discussing this topic is too complex for you. 
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Deep Shoat on October 03, 2017, 05:20:42 pm
Explain to me how the buyout as structured provided any security to the University of Arkansas to keep their "hot commodity" from taking another job.
Here, let me help.

That wasn't the point, jackhole.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: onebadrubi on October 03, 2017, 05:26:42 pm
Here, let me help.

That wasn't the point, jackhole.

He's not a jackhole.  I use to also think some people here were just agenda driven and wanting to be mean or rude, but the more that come out the more I see they just can't look at situations from a big picture.  Their narrow minds force them to view our situation the same as every other 120 schools, or can't weigh a situation for the full scope as it is different from the next.  He is trying to alter the discussion subject to fit his narrative most likely though.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: HardCore on October 03, 2017, 05:33:29 pm
I recorded the LSU game so I could watch it last night.  It is so much fun watching them look terrible.  I can't stand the fanbase or the team.  Watching their administration blow coaching searches, firings and contract negotiations has been icing on the cake.  Pure comedy!

Unfortunately, it’s kinda like looking in the mirror
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Großer Kriegschwein on October 03, 2017, 07:28:04 pm
Nobody was ever going to come and try to take Orgeron from LSU. Their buyout didn't make much sense. His historical record of losing big should have given them pause and structured the contract toward an incentive-based solution. Once year of salary should have been all the buyout they should have given him.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: PorkSoda on October 03, 2017, 07:56:51 pm
Nobody was ever going to come and try to take Orgeron from LSU. Their buyout didn't make much sense. His historical record of losing big should have given them pause and structured the contract toward an incentive-based solution. Once year of salary should have been all the buyout they should have given him.
can't these universities afford to hire lawyers and accountants to review these contracts?  or is it just that the Boards are completely clueless and agree to anything to get who they want.

I can understand if you are hiring someone away from another school that already has guaranteed income for x years.  but hiring someone who is basically unemployed, then guaranteeing income is as stupid as it gets.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Großer Kriegschwein on October 03, 2017, 08:03:23 pm
can't these universities afford to hire lawyers and accountants to review these contracts?  or is it just that the Boards are completely clueless and agree to anything to get who they want.

I can understand if you are hiring someone away from another school that already has guaranteed income for x years.  but hiring someone who is basically unemployed, then guaranteeing income is as stupid as it gets.

If they won't accept 1-year of salary as a buyout, it is in your best interest to move on to someone else. Especially with Orgeron's history of losing.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: hawgon on October 03, 2017, 08:47:25 pm
He's not a jackhole.  I use to also think some people here were just agenda driven and wanting to be mean or rude, but the more that come out the more I see they just can't look at situations from a big picture.  Their narrow minds force them to view our situation the same as every other 120 schools, or can't weigh a situation for the full scope as it is different from the next.  He is trying to alter the discussion subject to fit his narrative most likely though.

Explain the big picture to me, Wise One.  I can't wait to hear/read this.  Lol
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: GoHogs1091 on October 03, 2017, 08:49:27 pm
They waited too long to get rid of Miles.

Their A.D. (if he should even be called an A.D.) made the same poor business decision that Jeff Long made, and that was giving an excessive undeserved buyout.

They are basically stuck with Orgeron for at least 1 more season.  We know about the bad situation they are in.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: hawgon on October 03, 2017, 08:54:34 pm
They waited too long to get rid of Miles.

Their A.D. (if he should even be called an A.D.) made the same poor business decision that Jeff Long made, and that was giving an excessive undeserved buyout.

They are basically stuck with Orgeron for at least 1 more season.  We know about the bad situation they are in.

But their situation gets rapidly better with regard to the buyout.  Bielema's won't get to less than 7 million until 2020.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: onebadrubi on October 03, 2017, 08:56:12 pm
Explain the big picture to me, Wise One.  I can't wait to hear/read this.  Lol


It's been laid out for you, you just can't seem to grasp it
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: onebadrubi on October 03, 2017, 08:57:36 pm
They waited too long to get rid of Miles.

Their A.D. (if he should even be called an A.D.) made the same poor business decision that Jeff Long made, and that was giving an excessive undeserved buyout.

They are basically stuck with Orgeron for at least 1 more season.  We know about the bad situation they are in.

No, the buyouts in the contracts given to miles and and Bielema are not similar in any way.   
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Großer Kriegschwein on October 03, 2017, 08:58:30 pm
But their situation gets rapidly better with regard to the buyout.  Bielema's won't get to less than 7 million until 2020.

Yep.

I personally like BB, however, the buyout is just silly and prohibitive. It's practically married us to him without regard to W-L record unless he does something stupid like his predecessor (actual, not interim).
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: GoHogs1091 on October 03, 2017, 09:01:44 pm
No, the buyouts in the contracts given to miles and and Bielema are not similar in any way.   

It is a similar situation because of an excessive undeserved buyout.

They are stuck with Orgeron.

We are stuck with Bielema.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: onebadrubi on October 03, 2017, 09:04:32 pm
It is a similar situation because of an excessive undeserved buyout.

They are stuck with Orgeron.

We are stuck with Bielema.

If you are comparing Bielema's buyout to orgeron, Ok.  If you are comparing mikes to Bielema's which is what your post seemed like to me then it's different in regards to Ann aD. 
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: GoHogs1091 on October 03, 2017, 09:13:08 pm
If you are comparing Bielema's buyout to orgeron, Ok.  If you are comparing mikes to Bielema's which is what your post seemed like to me then it's different in regards to Ann aD. 

Okay.  No problem.

My second sentence of my 1st post was referring to the poor business decision their A.D. made regarding Orgeron's buyout.

The waiting too long to get rid of Miles caused them some problems.  It made their A.D. make rash and rushed decisions regarding their coaching search (wasn't much of a search though; Herman was only interested in Texas, and Alleva panicked and Alleva got impressed with Orgeron's binder of action plan).
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: onebadrubi on October 03, 2017, 09:14:32 pm
Okay.  No problem.

My second sentence of my 1st post was referring to the poor business decision their A.D. made regarding Orgeron's buyout.

The waiting too long to get rid of Miles caused them some problems.  It made their A.D. make rash and rushed decisions regarding their coaching search (wasn't much of a search though; Herman was only interested in Texas, and Alleva panicked and Alleva got impressed with Orgeron's binder of action plan).



Their AD should have been canned after the Miles thing then awarding him after all of it
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: PorkSoda on October 03, 2017, 09:18:08 pm
It is a similar situation because of an excessive undeserved buyout.

They are stuck with Orgeron.

We are stuck with Bielema.
not really, CBB had a long term contract he was leaving behind at Wisconsin.  Ed O was basically out of a job at the end of the year and had no where to go and no offers.

not even close to the same situation.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Großer Kriegschwein on October 03, 2017, 09:18:55 pm
If you are comparing Bielema's buyout to orgeron, Ok.  If you are comparing mikes to Bielema's which is what your post seemed like to me then it's different in regards to Ann aD.

We are in a better position to pay the buyout if it were needed. It would make any Razorback supporter or non-supporter sick to their stomach for some guy to get a $16 million dollar payday for sucking at his job.

The Program Supporter knows that his donation money will be going to pay that stupid buyout and not to the ACTUAL improvement of the program.

The Non-Program Supporter sees many people living in poverty in a small rural state and some dude getting $16 million because he didn't actually do what was required to earn that $16 million.


It's just silly.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: GoHogs1091 on October 03, 2017, 09:25:32 pm
not really, CBB had a long term contract he was leaving behind at Wisconsin.  Ed O was basically out of a job at the end of the year and had no where to go and no offers.

not even close to the same situation.

Bielema didn't get his excessive undeserved buyout from Long for leaving Wisconsin.

Bielema got his excessive undeserved buyout from Long for winning a nationally irrelevant bowl game against a terrible Texas team.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: PorkSoda on October 03, 2017, 09:31:13 pm
Bielema didn't get his excessive undeserved buyout from Long for leaving Wisconsin.

Bielema got his excessive undeserved buyout from Long for winning a nationally irrelevant bowl game against a terrible Texas team.
no he got an excessive buy out when he came from wisconsin, and it was extended/bumped up after the win against texas.

im of the opinion that there wasn't enough evidence of sustained success to extend the buyout after 2 conference wins in two years, but they didn't ask me.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Großer Kriegschwein on October 03, 2017, 09:37:32 pm
no he got an excessive buy out when he came from wisconsin, and it was extended/bumped up after the win against texas.

im of the opinion that there wasn't enough evidence of sustained success to extend the buyout after 2 conference wins in two years, but they didn't ask me.

2012 contract
He can be fired for cause. The contract contains a lengthy list of reasons both specific and a general "character" clause. But if the UA just wants him gone, it will have to pay a heavy buyout price in the early going — $12.8 million in 2013, 2014 and 2015. The figure drops to $9.6 million in 2016, then $6.4 million and then $3.2 million. If all goes well, custom has it that such contracts are renegotiated and rolled over before they expire.

2014 Contract

The contract's buyout terms are extremely friendly to Bielema, who would be owed $15.4 million if he's fired any time before 2018 and a minimum of $7.9 million if if he's fired any time before 2020. But Bielema would only owe Arkansas $4 million if he leaves in 2015 and would owe progressively less over the course of the contract down to only $500,000 on Jan. 1, 2019.

Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: jcbville on October 03, 2017, 09:38:49 pm
Some people may not like it now or like to hear it but the contract is structured very deliberately to make it difficult for the UofA to fire CBB until a certain agreed upon timetable more or less runs out. Barring any unforeseen disasters that nullify it or make it excessively prudent to buy it out. It was the point of how its setup. It was the deal that was made. It wasnt a "blunder" or an "accident". And it wasn't made solo by Jeff Long. It was deliberate. It was asked for.  It was given. And all the powers that be, real or imagined signed off on it.

If it helps to look at it as a wager as noted above thats not an unfair view.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: PorkSoda on October 03, 2017, 09:55:54 pm
2012 contract
He can be fired for cause. The contract contains a lengthy list of reasons both specific and a general "character" clause. But if the UA just wants him gone, it will have to pay a heavy buyout price in the early going — $12.8 million in 2013, 2014 and 2015. The figure drops to $9.6 million in 2016, then $6.4 million and then $3.2 million. If all goes well, custom has it that such contracts are renegotiated and rolled over before they expire.

2014 Contract

The contract's buyout terms are extremely friendly to Bielema, who would be owed $15.4 million if he's fired any time before 2018 and a minimum of $7.9 million if if he's fired any time before 2020. But Bielema would only owe Arkansas $4 million if he leaves in 2015 and would owe progressively less over the course of the contract down to only $500,000 on Jan. 1, 2019.



so lets just see how this works out

year   original   extention
1   12.8   15.4
2   12.8   11.7
3   12.8   7.9
4   9.6   4
5   6.4   
6   3.2   

essentially, the only difference is a move from 3.2 per year to 3.85 per year for the life of the contract.

not as big of a change as people are making it out to be.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: onebadrubi on October 03, 2017, 09:59:13 pm
Some people may not like it now or like to hear it but the contract is structured very deliberately to make it difficult for the UofA to fire CBB until a certain agreed upon timetable more or less runs out. Barring any unforeseen disasters that nullify it or make it excessively prudent to buy it out. It was the point of how its setup. It was the deal that was made. It wasnt a "blunder" or an "accident". And it wasn't made solo by Jeff Long. It was deliberate. It was asked for.  It was given. And all the powers that be, real or imagined signed off on it.

If it helps to look at it as a wager as noted above thats not an unfair view.

Shhh you are thinking and looking at a bigger picture, long term goal with that thinking
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Großer Kriegschwein on October 03, 2017, 09:59:35 pm


year   original   extention
1   12.8        15.4
2   12.8            15.4
3   12.8            15.4
4   9.6              7.9
5   6.4              7.9
6   3.2


The 15.4 million buyout is thru 2017
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: PorkSoda on October 03, 2017, 10:00:33 pm
https://www.seccountry.com/sec/sec-football-head-coach-contract-salary-buyout

Arkansas would have to pay Bielema $15.4 million if he were fired before 2018, $11.7 million before 2019, $7.9 million before 2020 and $4 million in the final year of his contract, according to AP reporter Kurt Voigt.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Großer Kriegschwein on October 03, 2017, 10:01:18 pm
https://www.seccountry.com/sec/sec-football-head-coach-contract-salary-buyout

Arkansas would have to pay Bielema $15.4 million if he were fired before 2018, $11.7 million before 2019, $7.9 million before 2020 and $4 million in the final year of his contract, according to AP reporter Kurt Voigt.

that's what I posted above dude

2012 contract
He can be fired for cause. The contract contains a lengthy list of reasons both specific and a general "character" clause. But if the UA just wants him gone, it will have to pay a heavy buyout price in the early going — $12.8 million in 2013, 2014 and 2015. The figure drops to $9.6 million in 2016, then $6.4 million and then $3.2 million. If all goes well, custom has it that such contracts are renegotiated and rolled over before they expire.

2014 Contract

The contract's buyout terms are extremely friendly to Bielema, who would be owed $15.4 million if he's fired any time before 2018 and a minimum of $7.9 million if if he's fired any time before 2020. But Bielema would only owe Arkansas $4 million if he leaves in 2015 and would owe progressively less over the course of the contract down to only $500,000 on Jan. 1, 2019.


Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: PorkSoda on October 03, 2017, 10:06:00 pm

year   original   extention
1   12.8        15.4
2   12.8            15.4
3   12.8            15.4
4   9.6              7.9
5   6.4              7.9
6   3.2




The 15.4 million buyout is thru 2017
if you want to go by calendar year then

year   original   extention
2012   12.8   
2013    12.8   
2014    12.8    
2015    9.6     15.4
2016    6.4     15.4
2017    3.2     15.4
2018              11.7
2019              7.9
2020                 4

either way the only real difference besides the extension is a move from 3.2 to 3.85 x 4 years, or however may years are left in the contract, which ever is less.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: PorkSoda on October 03, 2017, 10:09:09 pm
that's what I posted above dude

my bad, I forgot to take into account that it started in 2015

regardless, the only real difference besides the extension is a move from 3.2 to 3.85 x 4 years, or however may years are left in the contract, which ever is less

Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: AugustaHog on October 03, 2017, 10:11:09 pm
Some people may not like it now or like to hear it but the contract is structured very deliberately to make it difficult for the UofA to fire CBB until a certain agreed upon timetable more or less runs out. Barring any unforeseen disasters that nullify it or make it excessively prudent to buy it out. It was the point of how its setup. It was the deal that was made. It wasnt a "blunder" or an "accident". And it wasn't made solo by Jeff Long. It was deliberate. It was asked for.  It was given. And all the powers that be, real or imagined signed off on it.

If it helps to look at it as a wager as noted above thats not an unfair view.
You are absolutely correct.  My issue here is the length of this whole thing.  I truly think 5 years is more than plenty to determine if someone can hack it or not.  7 is insane, especially with the lack of commitment financially on the other side.  Essentially, he's free to leave at a fair price if he kills it through 4 years.  If he sucks, and he has, we get stuck choosing which turd we'd rather eat, the buyout or 2-3 more years of poor football.  The only way we could've won is if he's successful and chooses not to leave for greener pastures.  I know what his motive was with this contract, but it was a dumbass move to tie yourself to this boat anchor. If it fails, JL has to go.  He shouldn't be able to make another hire/contract that could cripple us for another 7 years.  Jeffy out thought himself here.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Großer Kriegschwein on October 03, 2017, 10:17:56 pm
my bad, I forgot to take into account that it started in 2012

regardless, the only real difference besides the extension is a move from 3.2 to 3.85 x 4 years, or however may years are left in the contract, which ever is less

I'm not seeing the whole need for an increase in buyout etc...etc....

Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: PorkSoda on October 03, 2017, 10:18:59 pm
I'm not seeing the whole need for an increase in buyout etc...etc....


yeah, 2 conference wins in 2 years just screams "give me a raise!"


That is the problem when managers don't use measurable goals.

if you aren't measuring success, how do you know if they are achieving it?

Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Großer Kriegschwein on October 03, 2017, 10:22:46 pm
yeah, 2 conference wins in 2 years just screams "give me a raise!"
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: hawgon on October 03, 2017, 10:41:51 pm
Some people may not like it now or like to hear it but the contract is structured very deliberately to make it difficult for the UofA to fire CBB until a certain agreed upon timetable more or less runs out. Barring any unforeseen disasters that nullify it or make it excessively prudent to buy it out. It was the point of how its setup. It was the deal that was made. It wasnt a "blunder" or an "accident". And it wasn't made solo by Jeff Long. It was deliberate. It was asked for.  It was given. And all the powers that be, real or imagined signed off on it.

If it helps to look at it as a wager as noted above thats not an unfair view.

We know all that.  It was specifically set up to make Bielema difficult to impossible to fire.  Which makes it even more idiotic all the way around.  Long's judgment was clearly and demonstrably terrible after the BP disaster and the compounding of said disaster by hiring a known buffoon with a bankruptcy hanging over his head and then structuring his contract in a manner specifically designed to defraud his creditors in said bankruptcy.

The people who bought off on that idiotic and dishonest scheme the signed off on the ridiculous Bielema buyout designed by Long to keep his man in place while their geriatric arses were in the throws of nostalgic ecstasy from beating a worse than mediocre Texas team.

Oh, we understand that it was designed that way and why.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Calling All Hogs on October 04, 2017, 12:41:38 am
Nothing like locking down a coach that no one else wants.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: Großer Kriegschwein on October 04, 2017, 12:45:37 am
Nothing like locking down a coach that no one else wants.

No ****
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: bondhue on October 04, 2017, 12:53:35 am
This thread makes it perfectly clear.  The explanation for why the SEC is down isn't Bama, it's not the loss of Meyer or Spurrier.  It is poor AD's.  Horrible AD's who if they were in private enterprise would run a profitable company into bankruptcy.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: jcbville on October 04, 2017, 08:28:43 am
You are absolutely correct.  My issue here is the length of this whole thing.  I truly think 5 years is more than plenty to determine if someone can hack it or not.  7 is insane, especially with the lack of commitment financially on the other side.  Essentially, he's free to leave at a fair price if he kills it through 4 years.  If he sucks, and he has, we get stuck choosing which turd we'd rather eat, the buyout or 2-3 more years of poor football.  The only way we could've won is if he's successful and chooses not to leave for greener pastures.  I know what his motive was with this contract, but it was a dumbass move to tie yourself to this boat anchor. If it fails, JL has to go.  He shouldn't be able to make another hire/contract that could cripple us for another 7 years.  Jeffy out thought himself here.

Now you've gotten to the heart of the matter. Did it need to be a 7 year deal? A fair and debatable question. To take 7 years would be worst case scenario as it was proposed but also progress was promised to still be seen during that worst case scenario. What they didn't/couldn't predict was how last year ended which changed the optics of the whole thing. Now it will have to play out and if it ultimately doesn't work out well then it will be a knock on Jeff Long. That was the gamble that was taken.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: jcbville on October 04, 2017, 08:32:06 am
We know all that.  It was specifically set up to make Bielema difficult to impossible to fire.  Which makes it even more idiotic all the way around.  Long's judgment was clearly and demonstrably terrible after the BP disaster and the compounding of said disaster by hiring a known buffoon with a bankruptcy hanging over his head and then structuring his contract in a manner specifically designed to defraud his creditors in said bankruptcy.

The people who bought off on that idiotic and dishonest scheme the signed off on the ridiculous Bielema buyout designed by Long to keep his man in place while their geriatric arses were in the throws of nostalgic ecstasy from beating a worse than mediocre Texas team.

Oh, we understand that it was designed that way and why.

Seems that everything touches a nerve with you. Like a man who yells every time he speaks. Have to find a way to decompress or you'll expire younger than you should. Food for thought.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: hawgon on October 04, 2017, 08:47:27 am
Seems that everything touches a nerve with you. Like a man who yells every time he speaks. Have to find a way to decompress or you'll expire younger than you should. Food for thought.

Not at all.  I simply recognize idiocy when I see it.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: hawgon on October 04, 2017, 08:50:34 am
Now you've gotten to the heart of the matter. Did it need to be a 7 year deal? A fair and debatable question. To take 7 years would be worst case scenario as it was proposed but also progress was promised to still be seen during that worst case scenario. What they didn't/couldn't predict was how last year ended which changed the optics of the whole thing. Now it will have to play out and if it ultimately doesn't work out well then it will be a knock on Jeff Long. That was the gamble that was taken.

Anyone who was paying attention knew exactly how this would play out after the first year.  He dropped games that a reasonably competent coach would have won.

And they completely knew this.  Why is that obvious?  Because if they had thought that Bert was actually going to do a good enough job to actually merit being the coach, such a ridiculous one sided buyout would not have been needed. 
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: jcbville on October 04, 2017, 09:23:08 am
Anyone who was paying attention knew exactly how this would play out after the first year.  He dropped games that a reasonably competent coach would have won.

And they completely knew this.  Why is that obvious?  Because if they had thought that Bert was actually going to do a good enough job to actually merit being the coach, such a ridiculous one sided buyout would not have been needed.

They view the Arkansas program differently than you do. They viewed it as a serious rebuild especially at that time. The hope was he would find success along with rebuilding the foundation. But they felt time to rebuild was warranted.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: onebadrubi on October 04, 2017, 09:39:57 am
Anyone who was paying attention knew exactly how this would play out after the first year.  He dropped games that a reasonably competent coach would have won.

And they completely knew this.  Why is that obvious?  Because if they had thought that Bert was actually going to do a good enough job to actually merit being the coach, such a ridiculous one sided buyout would not have been needed.

Please list those games...
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: ricepig on October 04, 2017, 09:43:47 am
Some people may not like it now or like to hear it but the contract is structured very deliberately to make it difficult for the UofA to fire CBB until a certain agreed upon timetable more or less runs out. Barring any unforeseen disasters that nullify it or make it excessively prudent to buy it out. It was the point of how its setup. It was the deal that was made. It wasnt a "blunder" or an "accident". And it wasn't made solo by Jeff Long. It was deliberate. It was asked for.  It was given. And all the powers that be, real or imagined signed off on it.

If it helps to look at it as a wager as noted above thats not an unfair view.

It amazes me that those wanting him fired yesterday can't understand this. He wanted X amount of time to do it has way, which was the way the administration wanted it. You want to change thinks, start from the AD and continue up.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: hawgon on October 04, 2017, 09:47:41 am
Please list those games...

Rutgers, Mississippi State, and LSU right off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: hawgon on October 04, 2017, 09:48:58 am
They view the Arkansas program differently than you do. They viewed it as a serious rebuild especially at that time. The hope was he would find success along with rebuilding the foundation. But they felt time to rebuild was warranted.

It wasn't and they're quite obviously wrong.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: onebadrubi on October 04, 2017, 10:01:24 am
Rutgers, Mississippi State, and LSU right off the top of my head.

Lsu made a play, a single play late.  We then learned the D.C. ANd DB coach wasn't really all in an she went packing.

Rutgers was a lack of depth if I remember right.  We had no gas at the end it appeared they came
Marching back.

I can't remember the Ms st game. 

I don't think it was obvious as you lead on based on your agenda
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: hog of steele on October 04, 2017, 10:09:11 am
Pretty much.

The only other team in the west to match Alabama on the field in the last 5 years has been Auburn when they went to the BCS NCG.

Ole miss also beat them twice. As we see how that happened, maybe not much to be proud of.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: PorkSoda on October 04, 2017, 05:27:39 pm
This thread makes it perfectly clear.  The explanation for why the SEC is down isn't Bama, it's not the loss of Meyer or Spurrier.  It is poor AD's.  Horrible AD's who if they were in private enterprise would run a profitable company into bankruptcy.
hard to argue with that.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: ricepig on October 04, 2017, 05:30:34 pm
Lsu made a play, a single play late.  We then learned the D.C. ANd DB coach wasn't really all in an she went packing.

Rutgers was a lack of depth if I remember right.  We had no gas at the end it appeared they came
Marching back.

I can't remember the Ms st game. 

I don't think it was obvious as you lead on based on your agenda

AC fumbled on the goal line, they go down kick a FG and then win in OT.

Or, we go for the FG, the block it, we lose.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: AugustaHog on October 04, 2017, 06:15:07 pm
Lsu made a play, a single play late.  We then learned the D.C. ANd DB coach wasn't really all in an she went packing.

Rutgers was a lack of depth if I remember right.  We had no gas at the end it appeared they came
Marching back.

I can't remember the Ms st game. 

I don't think it was obvious as you lead on based on your agenda
I might would've bought these explanations after year 1, thinking they are trying to change a culture.  In hindsight, what we were seeing was the new culture at hand.  This was the beginning of a pattern. 
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: onebadrubi on October 04, 2017, 06:20:36 pm
I might would've bought these explanations after year 1, thinking they are trying to change a culture.  In hindsight, what we were seeing was the new culture at hand.  This was the beginning of a pattern.

If only everyone who made contracts could see 5 years ahead
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: DLUXHOG on October 04, 2017, 06:26:35 pm
Pretty much.

The only other team in the west to match Alabama on the field in the last 5 years has been Auburn when they went to the BCS NCG.


uhhhhh..... once, as in one time....
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: AugustaHog on October 04, 2017, 10:14:37 pm
If only everyone who made contracts could see 5 years ahead
You can't tell me after the first two seasons you were thinking holy hell we better lock this dude up or he'll leave us.  A 7-6 season earned him the worst one-sided buy-out ever?  JL made the decision to commit to an additional 5 years after just two SEC wins in the first two seasons.  It looked like a bad move then and looks even worse now. 
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: DoctorSusscrofa on October 05, 2017, 11:06:42 am
You can't tell me after the first two seasons you were thinking holy hell we better lock this dude up or he'll leave us.  A 7-6 season earned him the worst one-sided buy-out ever?  JL made the decision to commit to an additional 5 years after just two SEC wins in the first two seasons.  It looked like a bad move then and looks even worse now.

7-6 looked ok after 4-8 and 3-9.  A jump of 3 or 4 wins from one year to another is not bad. You may have been clairvoyant at the time, but most fans were not thinking I bet we have a lost to Toledo in our future. 
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: DoctorSusscrofa on October 05, 2017, 11:08:41 am
I might would've bought these explanations after year 1, thinking they are trying to change a culture.  In hindsight, what we were seeing was the new culture at hand.  This was the beginning of a pattern.

Key word: Beginning.  The pattern wasn't set yet.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: DoctorSusscrofa on October 05, 2017, 11:11:07 am
hard to argue with that.

The problem is ADs aren't in private enterprise exactly.  They work for educational institutions that operate under much different rules and which face much different challenges.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: PorkSoda on October 05, 2017, 02:45:10 pm
The problem is ADs aren't in private enterprise exactly.  They work for educational institutions that operate under much different rules and which face much different challenges.
True, a normal CEO might not be as successful at a university where like you said, there are a lot of factors other than the bottom line that count.  however, these contracts are heavily one sided.  whoever is "negotiating" them is basically giving the coaches agent anything they want.  maybe the Athletic Dept needs to hire their own agent instead of relying on pencil pushers.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: DLUXHOG on October 05, 2017, 02:48:56 pm
You all are going to be so sorry and sick when CBB delivers an incredible run of hugely victorious seasons.....   you’ll be saying how smart JL was to get a big buyout, etc....
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: hog of steele on October 05, 2017, 02:53:10 pm
You all are going to be so sorry and sick when CBB delivers an incredible run of hugely victorious seasons.....   you’ll be saying how smart JL was to get a big buyout, etc....

This is the gamble Long made. 2 years ago I thought it would pay off for him. Now I am not so certain. If CBB turns it around and kills it next year, Long will look like a genius. If the UA gets stuck with a 9 million dollar set of Golden Handcuffs, Long will follow CBB out the door.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: DLUXHOG on October 05, 2017, 03:00:31 pm
This is the gamble Long made. 2 years ago I thought it would pay off for him. Now I am not so certain. If CBB turns it around and kills it next year, Long will look like a genius. If the UA gets stuck with a 9 million dollar set of Golden Handcuffs, Long will follow CBB out the door.

Oh, BTW... I meant to say “consecutive victorious seasons....🤗
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: AugustaHog on October 05, 2017, 03:02:18 pm
You all are going to be so sorry and sick when CBB delivers an incredible run of hugely victorious seasons.....   you’ll be saying how smart JL was to get a big buyout, etc....
Nothing would make me happier than for this to occur.  I'll gladly eat my crow.  I just want to see this team win football games.  BB is a good guy, but he just hasn't won many football games that matter.  It would be great if starting from this point that begins to change and we start getting the wins to go with the peripheral stuff.  I think his buyout is going to give him another year for sure, unless the end of this season is just disastrous and we finish something crazy like 4-8.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: jcbville on October 05, 2017, 03:05:22 pm
They're intentionally one sided. Its how they provide security.

The bottom line is this though. Taken for what they are intended for the contracts aren't crazy at all. They are an agreed upon timeline. No more and no less. Now whether or not you think the timeline given is too long etc...is up for debate I suppose. But the contracts arent, under most circumstances, that crazy.

At LSU however there was no reason to give Ed O that much security. It was a definite blunder. They could have set it up with a re-eval after 1 year and he would have taken it.  Id also say that going forward you will still have to provide the security coaches coming in want but you might want to keep the contracts to 5 year periods with a re-eval etc...setup at that time. I think coaches would generally find that acceptable. And it would help ADs console restless fan bases.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: DLUXHOG on October 05, 2017, 03:05:45 pm
Nothing would make me happier than for this to occur.  I'll gladly eat my crow.  I just want to see this team win football games.  BB is a good guy, but he just hasn't won many football games that matter.  It would be great if starting from this point that begins to change and we start getting the wins to go with the peripheral stuff.  I think his buyout is going to give him another year for sure, unless the end of this season is just disastrous and we finish something crazy like 4-8.

Get ready to be happy then...
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: PorkSoda on October 05, 2017, 03:27:17 pm
You all are going to be so sorry and sick when CBB delivers an incredible run of hugely victorious seasons.....   you’ll be saying how smart JL was to get a big buyout, etc....
erm the buyout protects CBB from being fired, not from CBB getting another job.  if it went both ways, there would be no complaint.  but it doesn't go both ways.  it only ensures that CBB has X number of years to succeed or fail, and he can't be fired no matter how poor he performs.  but if he was ultra successful, there would be nothing to keep him from jumping to a better job. 

IOW, no matter what happens, arkansas gets screwed.  last I checked. the point of contract negotiations was not to ensure you get screwed no matter what happens.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: jcbville on October 06, 2017, 07:03:25 pm
erm the buyout protects CBB from being fired, not from CBB getting another job.  if it went both ways, there would be no complaint.  but it doesn't go both ways.  it only ensures that CBB has X number of years to succeed or fail, and he can't be fired no matter how poor he performs.  but if he was ultra successful, there would be nothing to keep him from jumping to a better job. 

IOW, no matter what happens, arkansas gets screwed.  last I checked. the point of contract negotiations was not to ensure you get screwed no matter what happens.

This illustrates one of the main issues. The current environment in the SEC makes it so that the coaches and their agents feel that they need that level of protection and the ADs and the schools are agreeing with them right now. It's an SEC issue as a whole.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: longpig on October 07, 2017, 12:19:51 am
Have a look at this. LMAO Tiger Rant losing it over "O" The Rosy Finch Boyz, LLC

"LSU’s contract is actually with “O” The Rosy Finch Boyz, LLC, which was incorporated last January when he got the job. It lists as its officers Ed Orgeron, his wife Kelly and New Orleans attorney William Neilson. It runs through 2021 and pays him about $3.5 million per year, with various incentives, plus benefits such as membership in the University Club of Baton Rouge and a $2,000-per month carer’s allowance.

If Orgeron is fired “without cause” (namely for losing too much rather than NCAA violations or legal issues) prior to Nov. 28 of each year, then he is owed $12 million this year, $8.5 million next, $6 million in 2019, $4.5 million in 2020 and $1 million in 2021. Those numbers are “minus compensation paid during the terminating year.” So subtract $3.5 million pro-rated at however many months he’s worked that year."

https://sports.yahoo.com/lsu-stuck-ed-orgeron-184838225.html

Ouch! I thought they still had a one year deal.  Classic corndog move signing Ed O long term.
Title: Re: Dont Like the CBB Contract?
Post by: ricepig on October 07, 2017, 09:20:00 am
erm the buyout protects CBB from being fired, not from CBB getting another job.  if it went both ways, there would be no complaint.  but it doesn't go both ways.  it only ensures that CBB has X number of years to succeed or fail, and he can't be fired no matter how poor he performs.  but if he was ultra successful, there would be nothing to keep him from jumping to a better job. 

IOW, no matter what happens, arkansas gets screwed.  last I checked. the point of contract negotiations was not to ensure you get screwed no matter what happens.

Sure there was, an increase in salary. You think he wouldn't entertain a bump in pay to stay?