Thoughts on early retirement

[pheine78]

Well, I am in the Air Force and with the huge cut coming up the next few years I am eligible for early retirement.  As an E7, the loss will be about $300 a month if I retire in 1 August ($1.7K versus $2K).  Not bad considering I am looking at probably 2 more deployments and an assignment to lord knows where in the meantime.  With that said, $300 a month (and obviously more for longevity raises and possible promotions) that is a lot to lose over the course of a lifetime.  I have an MBA from Morehead State and I am almost finished with an MA, I was thinking about using my GI bill for three years, getting a PHD from a good school and rolling with that.  Or possibly just getting a decent job and pressing on.  Advice from fellow vets/active duty?  That $300 or so per month might add up over time.  Then again, my kids are young so the extra time I will spend with them is priceless.  What say ya'll? 

[TeufelHog]

I would stay until 20 and then retire.  If nothing else, it gives you a paycheck over the next two - three years (guessing since you didn't reveal current time-in-service) while you are planning your exit strategy thoroughly.  Also gives you job security while this economy and job market HOPEFULLY ADJUSTS.  Suck up the next move, or couple deployments, and finish the 20. If Congress doesn't retract the COLA issue from the recent "Budget Deal" it's going to be a lot more than $300 monthly over the course of your retirement.  In other words, you'll need the few extra retirement percentages in your "High-Three" calculation to off-set the COLA adjustment between ages 39 and 62.

[Flying Razorback]

I'm not eligible for early retirement, but with the bleak outlook that we're hearing every day on base... I'd probably accept early retirement.  I'd say you're in a great position though.  You have set yourself up for success, served our nation honorably, and have options on the table.  I feel bad for the guys younger than me who don't know what will be happening to them but they thought they had job security for several years while they figured it out.  Now reality is crashing down on all of us.

[Tejas_Pete]

If they offer early retirement take it as long as the  medical coverage is the same you'd get at 20. You'll be fine on the outside with your education and skills as long as you are flexible on where you live. The only guys I know that get out and can't find jobs either have no education and don't take advantage of GI Bill, or they are dead set on moving back to where they are from or a combination of both.

[gijoejd]

I am not eligible for TERA as I am a 12 yr E-6, but the whole things just seems like a  classic bait-and-switch.  Everyones situation is different, but I think I would stick it out and not take the early retirement.  If you are eligible for TERA, that means you are 15+ yrs vested.  When you are looking down the road after retirement...most likely drawing from 2 retirements at that point, that extra $300 is 1/2 a car payment...or beer money...or a Razorback game.  I'd stick it out. 

Chew on this...If I opted to early out right now while they are offering, I would get a severance.  My severance package is less than the amount you would be tossing to take your TERA offer. 

$300 per month for 12 months = $3600

$3600 for 20 yrs retirement = $72000

[gijoejd]

Here's some sound advice form the "hitting the wall" thread that could be applied here.

Navy here...did 31 years and came close to walking before my last promotion.  All I can say is there comes a point where you can stand on your head and eat peanut butter for "X" number of years.  You are close to that.  Even with 11 years, for what you have given in service, you would probably have to live to be 125 years old, drawing a retirement check, to break even.  I would seriously consider staying for another 9 years.  The retirement check in civilian life makes a huge difference. (have you priced health care? ...Tricare to 65 then Tricare for life).  See what challenging assignments are available and don't be afraid to get out of your comfort zone.  Good luck.

[HawgFanOahu]

Take it. 

I retired in 2000 after 21+ years and I'm seeing my benefits slowly erode away (including medical).  Hindsight being what it is, I should have retired as soon as I was eligible.  The contract you signed means nothing to Congress.  They will stick it to you in a heartbeat if they can save a few bucks or divert them somewhere else.  Don't believe Uncle will hold up his end of the deal.  He won't.

Don't get me wrong.  I had a great military career and wouldn't trade it for anything.  But it takes a toll, especially on families.

Get yourself prepared.  Go through TAP or whatever they call it now.  Twice if you can.  Employers are starving for people like you who show up, show up on time, know how to work, and act like a professional.

You've done your time.  Now go enjoy those freedoms you've been defending all these years.

Thank you for your service.  Aloha.

[SteveInArk]

I had planned to stay till 30.  I could have.  I got a great job at 20.  I retired.

That being said, unless early retirement gives you EVERYTHING that 20 years does (minus the obvious lesser $$$ amount), stay till 20 years.

Any early retirement that pulls even one punch on you ... not worth, imo.  That means any kind of lowered COLA, some medical coverage difference less than the current fully-retired TRICARE, etc, etc.

[Flying Razorback]

I had planned to stay till 30.  I could have.  I got a great job at 20.  I retired.

That being said, unless early retirement gives you EVERYTHING that 20 years does (minus the obvious lesser $$$ amount), stay till 20 years.

Any early retirement that pulls even one punch on you ... not worth, imo.  That means any kind of lowered COLA, some medical coverage difference less than the current fully-retired TRICARE, etc, etc.

One of the problems right now is the level of uncertainty as to whether we will be ALLOWED to stay in.  All of our contracts are one way promises.  I'm still on contract another 4 years, however, they could send me packing any time they want.  We're about to face unprecedented force reduction strategies.  Well, unprecedented since it last happened 20 years ago in the post Cold War era.  Around the time you retired they were doing this last. 

Where my fear would be is deciding to forego early retirement, and then a year later being sent home with zero retirement because you are less than 20 years and being involuntarily separated.  They are looking for cost reductions and as the pyramid narrows as you increase in years, they would like to cut people who are hanging out trying to get a lifetime pension out of the deal.  Cutting someone at 16 years would save a lot more money than allowing that person to hang on through 4 more years while they're trying to cut 25,000+ people.

[SteveInArk]

That is a big issue, for sure.  When the post-Vietnam draw-down happened, I was a young officer and lots of service commitment left.  Never really faced RIFs in my career.

If I had stayed in longer, that could have become a factor.  But RIFs for rated officers were still pretty rare during my years.

[Flying Razorback]

That is a big issue, for sure.  When the post-Vietnam draw-down happened, I was a young officer and lots of service commitment left.  Never really faced RIFs in my career.

If I had stayed in longer, that could have become a factor.  But RIFs for rated officers were still pretty rare during my years.

As time has gone on they seem to hate rated officers more and more.  As we have become smaller (looking to be around or less than 300,000 at the end of this) they try to fit all officers in to a smaller and smaller shoe box.  If you don't look identical on paper then you are an outlier.  The problem with operations officers is the fact that while we are out operating we can't be "planning the Christmas party" or "Volunteering for Habitat for Humanity" or being the "Wing Commander's Exec" or having a Masters Degree complete by your 5th year.  And so on.  Since "everyone else is doing it..." i.e. the 75% of officers that aren't rated in some way, the bean counters feel that the records that don't reflect those mile stones are inferior.  So they go straight to the bottom.  It's become even worse in the past 12 years.  Because a lot of career fields don't "Have an opportunity to deploy" they felt that it was unfair to people who didn't get to deploy.  So they have masked deployments from records going to the boards.  So of course the people deploying the most have the biggest holes in their records and you can't see them for the experienced operator that they are.

There are people in the AF that you'll hear say things like "If we could just get rid of aircraft and aircrew, we could probably save a ton of money and cut out half our 'problems'..."

[HawgFanOahu]

As time has gone on they seem to hate rated officers more and more.  As we have become smaller (looking to be around or less than 300,000 at the end of this) they try to fit all officers in to a smaller and smaller shoe box.  If you don't look identical on paper then you are an outlier.  The problem with operations officers is the fact that while we are out operating we can't be "planning the Christmas party" or "Volunteering for Habitat for Humanity" or being the "Wing Commander's Exec" or having a Masters Degree complete by your 5th year.  And so on.  Since "everyone else is doing it..." i.e. the 75% of officers that aren't rated in some way, the bean counters feel that the records that don't reflect those mile stones are inferior.  So they go straight to the bottom.  It's become even worse in the past 12 years.  Because a lot of career fields don't "Have an opportunity to deploy" they felt that it was unfair to people who didn't get to deploy.  So they have masked deployments from records going to the boards.  So of course the people deploying the most have the biggest holes in their records and you can't see them for the experienced operator that they are.

There are people in the AF that you'll hear say things like "If we could just get rid of aircraft and aircrew, we could probably save a ton of money and cut out half our 'problems'..."

Wow.  Just wow. 

I don't have the time to properly pick your post apart and address each area of concern.  But here's how it comes across to me:  "Since I'm out there doing the job I signed up to do, I'm not able to suck up to the General so I'm being discriminated against."

I suggest you look in the mirror and ask yourself why you do what you do.  Professionals go about their business (often out on the pointy end) without fanfare and, for the most part, the recognition they so richly deserve.  But make no mistake, if you do your job properly, the people who need to know about it will know about it.  Masked records or not.  And they will see to it you get the ratings, positions, titles, and responsibilites you need to advance your career.

I sure you're a great person and hope you were just blowing off some steam but if not, it might be time to consider a career change.

Just my $.02. 

Now back to "Thoughts on early retirement".  Aloha.

[Airforcehawg]

Air Force here as well, Cop by trade, 16.5 years in, MSgt (E-7) for the last 2. I recently was hired for a position on MAJCOM staff, without that, I would be applying for early retirement. I think we are in for the toughest times since the massive drawdown after WWII.

I get very worried when thinking about the shortfalls we are about to experience manning, resources, and benefits wise.

Manning: My career field requires 24/7 operations and we have been 12 hour shifts (Really 14+ w/changeover) for the last 5 years because of manning shortfalls. With that, we have over 30 folks in our squadron that are applying under these Force Management programs. This number doesn't include the 30 troops that have been identified as having QFI issues who will more than likely be forced to separate. Granted not all that apply will get approved...many will though. Deployments are not slowing down, normal stateside operations are not getting any easier, and training requirements continue to increase. To get one of my guys ready for duty they require: (4) different weapon courses, over 20 CBT's, a duty position evaluation, (2) weapons tests, and various other training requirements that take almost 2 weeks to complete. Every year more and more training is required, as AFI's become more stringent. I know my career field is not alone, as most have similar requirement. My point is that as we get smaller we continue to make the job harder while making AFI's more and more restrictive.

Resources: Our budget has been reduced by 20% within the last 2 years and continues to dwindle. We were told there will not be any vehicles purchased for our fleet for the next 2 years. The majority of our vehicle fleet hover around the 10-15 year old range. That might not sound bad until you factor in these vehicles support a 24/7 mission and operated accordingly. We no longer have money to send members to schools that are necessary of our job. We now wait for MAJCOM to fund a course, and beg them for the slots as they become available.

Benefits: Our Library, auto shop, bowling alley, and theater have all closed on base. I know these aren't big things, but should be a warning of things to come. TA was previously suspended, TRICARE is always debated on...what is the next big domino to fall.

With the position that I am about to take on, I will be shielded from the majority of the manning and resource issues and is the main reason I am staying in. If I didn't have this job, I would be looking at my 3rd deployment (8+ months a pop w/training included) in the last 4 years. Upon my return I would be looking at 4/2 (14 hour shifts), while making time to PT (can't fail that!!), making time for base/community activities so I have a chance to promote, and somewhere between all that hope to see my family.

I love serving my country, and given the chance to go back in time...I would make the choice to do so every single time.  However, I think now more than ever, we are being asked to make a choice between serving our country and our family...I choose family.

I've talked to one of my TSgt's who is applying for TERA and could not fault him on his choice whatsoever. He has his degree, has a plan, and is ready to start putting permanent roots down. Told me he couldn't look in his son's eyes to tell them he was deploying again. He didn't want to move his kids when they are in High School if he stayed 20+. He didn't want to be buying his first house when he was 40 years old. He didn't want to start his second career at 40 years. These are the exact things that go through my head as well.

The next 5 years are going to be very interesting. I pray that we do not get dragged into a conflict during this time. I pray for the good troops that will be forced separated. I pray that our leaders can see the error in logic in trimming our force so drastically. I pray for strength for those (and their families) that continue to serve during these times.

The Air Force Hunger/Retention Games have begun.

[riccoar]

Prior AF here.  My sister is in AF now.  A 14 year E-7 and test next year for E-8.  She said if they offer, she is gone.

[SteveInArk]

TO:  HawgFanOahu

Appreciate your service too.

However, from your TWO posts in this thread, it's obvious you believe:
1.  That your benefits are being eroded, Congress is screwing you, they can't be trusted, and blah, blah, blah.
2.  FlyingRzrbkAF, and others still on active duty, are facing some real challenges, but if they articulate how absurd they believe it to be, first hand ... they are  just "whiners".

Unlike you and I, those on active duty are facing some real, and new challenges, that we never faced in our careers.  With the current congressional, military, and civilian leadership in Washington,  I see nothing that would make me believe their choices in handling the active duty force will be well thought out, with a few Congressional exceptions.

Be it career progression, advancement, quality of life, and ,yes, even retirement,  that leadership will put themselves first, and the troops last.  IMHO.  And that scathing belief is directed as much at the "4-stars", and any of the civilians.

You may be a great guy ...  but your first few posts here don't convey that to me.  Food for thought. 

[Ragnar Hogbrok]

Wow.  Just wow. 

I don't have the time to properly pick your post apart and address each area of concern.  But here's how it comes across to me:  "Since I'm out there doing the job I signed up to do, I'm not able to suck up to the General so I'm being discriminated against."

I suggest you look in the mirror and ask yourself why you do what you do.  Professionals go about their business (often out on the pointy end) without fanfare and, for the most part, the recognition they so richly deserve.  But make no mistake, if you do your job properly, the people who need to know about it will know about it.  Masked records or not.  And they will see to it you get the ratings, positions, titles, and responsibilites you need to advance your career.

I sure you're a great person and hope you were just blowing off some steam but if not, it might be time to consider a career change.

Just my $.02. 

Now back to "Thoughts on early retirement".  Aloha.

You are naive if you believe that senior officers in today's military are concerned about anyone's career but their own.  If you want a promotion, you have to go out there and do the things that set you apart.  For those of us in Combat or Combat Support roles, those opportunities are few and far in between.  We're so busy with our jobs, we don't have time for extra-curricular volunteer activities and things like that because, by golly, we like to spend some time with our families.

And, before you assume, I've already been selected for promotion so I'm not some jaded individual responding to you.  However, I made that promotion happen at the expense of the health of my family's relationship.

Some of us here have been more involved in the war fighting than others, so making a blanket statement such as you did doesn't necessarily apply in his situation.  Senior officers won't go out of their way to get you those positions, evaluations, etc, unless you "scratch their back."  I've seen it too many times over the last 5 or so years.

[pheine78]

I am not eligible for TERA as I am a 12 yr E-6, but the whole things just seems like a  classic bait-and-switch.  Everyones situation is different, but I think I would stick it out and not take the early retirement.  If you are eligible for TERA, that means you are 15+ yrs vested.  When you are looking down the road after retirement...most likely drawing from 2 retirements at that point, that extra $300 is 1/2 a car payment...or beer money...or a Razorback game.  I'd stick it out. 

Chew on this...If I opted to early out right now while they are offering, I would get a severance.  My severance package is less than the amount you would be tossing to take your TERA offer. 

$300 per month for 12 months = $3600

$3600 for 20 yrs retirement = $72000

That is a pretty hefty chunk.  I am still reading the replies, but it is interesting to see the different views of folks on here.  I will hit 17 years in August, at this point I am probably leaning toward sticking it out.  I have a couple of buddies that are taking TERA and a couple of guys voluntarily separating (those are in the same boat as you, 11 or 12 year E-6.)  They just think things are going to get tougher so they are getting out while the offer is on the table.  Can't say I blame them really, but I'm not convinced that the Air Force has the money to separate a whole lot of people right now.  I heard the figure tossed out that it would cost $1B to separate 10K personnel.  I'm not sure if that is right, but it sounds plausible.  If I was assured of a good job come 1 August it would be a no brainer, but the fact is I'm not, and I already have a pretty good job. 

[pheine78]

Air Force here as well, Cop by trade, 16.5 years in, MSgt (E-7) for the last 2. I recently was hired for a position on MAJCOM staff, without that, I would be applying for early retirement. I think we are in for the toughest times since the massive drawdown after WWII.

I get very worried when thinking about the shortfalls we are about to experience manning, resources, and benefits wise.

Manning: My career field requires 24/7 operations and we have been 12 hour shifts (Really 14+ w/changeover) for the last 5 years because of manning shortfalls. With that, we have over 30 folks in our squadron that are applying under these Force Management programs. This number doesn't include the 30 troops that have been identified as having QFI issues who will more than likely be forced to separate. Granted not all that apply will get approved...many will though. Deployments are not slowing down, normal stateside operations are not getting any easier, and training requirements continue to increase. To get one of my guys ready for duty they require: (4) different weapon courses, over 20 CBT's, a duty position evaluation, (2) weapons tests, and various other training requirements that take almost 2 weeks to complete. Every year more and more training is required, as AFI’s become more stringent. I know my career field is not alone, as most have similar requirement. My point is that as we get smaller we continue to make the job harder while making AFI's more and more restrictive.

Resources: Our budget has been reduced by 20% within the last 2 years and continues to dwindle. We were told there will not be any vehicles purchased for our fleet for the next 2 years. The majority of our vehicle fleet hover around the 10-15 year old range. That might not sound bad until you factor in these vehicles support a 24/7 mission and operated accordingly. We no longer have money to send members to schools that are necessary of our job. We now wait for MAJCOM to fund a course, and beg them for the slots as they become available.

Benefits: Our Library, auto shop, bowling alley, and theater have all closed on base. I know these aren't big things, but should be a warning of things to come. TA was previously suspended, TRICARE is always debated on…what is the next big domino to fall.

With the position that I am about to take on, I will be shielded from the majority of the manning and resource issues and is the main reason I am staying in. If I didn’t have this job, I would be looking at my 3rd deployment (8+ months a pop w/training included) in the last 4 years. Upon my return I would be looking at 4/2 (14 hour shifts), while making time to PT (can’t fail that!!), making time for base/community activities so I have a chance to promote, and somewhere between all that hope to see my family.

I love serving my country, and given the chance to go back in time…I would make the choice to do so every single time.  However, I think now more than ever, we are being asked to make a choice between serving our country and our family...I choose family.

I've talked to one of my TSgt’s who is applying for TERA and could not fault him on his choice whatsoever. He has his degree, has a plan, and is ready to start putting permanent roots down. Told me he couldn’t look in his son’s eyes to tell them he was deploying again. He didn’t want to move his kids when they are in High School if he stayed 20+. He didn’t want to be buying his first house when he was 40 years old. He didn’t want to start his second career at 40 years. These are the exact things that go through my head as well.

The next 5 years are going to be very interesting. I pray that we do not get dragged into a conflict during this time. I pray for the good troops that will be forced separated. I pray that our leaders can see the error in logic in trimming our force so drastically. I pray for strength for those (and their families) that continue to serve during these times.

The Air Force Hunger/Retention Games have begun.

That pretty much mirrors my position in CE.  The deployments are coming hard and fast, cuts coming hard and fast and that makes it tough.  It is tough to deploy for 6 months, return to home station and work your butt off---exercise, exercise, exercise---have to make due with very limited resources and then turn around and deploy again the next year after not getting to enjoy your time off.  I fully support your TSgts decision; how can you look that guy in the eye and tell him it is a good choice to stay in?  With that said, I am probably leaning toward staying in.  I will PCS next year and retire (if I don't get forced out first) from my next duty station.  In the meantime hopefully the AF will pay my house payment (I will only be 36, not 40!) for a couple of years.  Stability has been a big factor why I have stayed in this long, but it seems like that is being eroded pretty quickly. 

[pheine78]

Prior AF here.  My sister is in AF now.  A 14 year E-7 and test next year for E-8.  She said if they offer, she is gone.

Fast burner!  She isn't eligible until next year.  If the rule stay the same and she make E-8, she still won't be eligible because of her date of rank (they want to keep fresh folk in the force). 

[Tejas_Pete]

I was hanging out in Austin today and damn I love that town. I think as soon as my commitment is up I'm outta the Army and settling down somewhere I enjoy living and where I won't have to uproot every 3 years.

[Tejas_Pete]

WOCraig hit the nail on the head. Garrison bull is what matters now. Your eval hangs on things like did you attend the brigade commanders new years reception at his house on Saturday at 1300 and did you stay the allocated 45 minutes or did you leave early and did you remember to send a thank you card to him and his wife.

[Tejas_Pete]

Frank this darn I'm ready to get a face tattoo and go be a cashier at Whole Foods

[Ragnar Hogbrok]

Frank this darn I'm ready to get a face tattoo and go be a cashier at Whole Foods

The Army is considering banning sleeve tattoos others that were previously allowed.  I'm right there with you.  I've considered getting covered in tats just to make a statement.  But that's the rebel in me talking.

[Airforcehawg]

The ACC Chief was here at Nellis and stated that Big Air Force is expecting that 7 to 10K will voluntary separate under these Force Management Programs this year. He said that the vast majority of the 7K+ troops that have been identified of having QFI will be separated as well.

So bottom line is the AF is expecting and ready for 17K to leave this year!!! The hunger games has now hit warp speed.

[Tejas_Pete]

The Army is considering banning sleeve tattoos others that were previously allowed.  I'm right there with you.  I've considered getting covered in tats just to make a statement.  But that's the rebel in me talking.

I gotta quit drinking and posting! Wouldn't really get a face tattoo but I did see a cashier at Whole Foods in Austin with one and he looked pretty happy.

[kodiakisland]

Well, I am in the Air Force and with the huge cut coming up the next few years I am eligible for early retirement.  As an E7, the loss will be about $300 a month if I retire in 1 August ($1.7K versus $2K).  Not bad considering I am looking at probably 2 more deployments and an assignment to lord knows where in the meantime.  With that said, $300 a month (and obviously more for longevity raises and possible promotions) that is a lot to lose over the course of a lifetime.  I have an MBA from Morehead State and I am almost finished with an MA, I was thinking about using my GI bill for three years, getting a PHD from a good school and rolling with that.  Or possibly just getting a decent job and pressing on.  Advice from fellow vets/active duty?  That $300 or so per month might add up over time.  Then again, my kids are young so the extra time I will spend with them is priceless.  What say ya'll? 

Best thing my wife and I did was get out early.  We both had good jobs to go to and were able to enjoy the little time we had left to spend together with our children before they left home.  We did not do early retirement though.  We were able to go into jobs that did not require the military supplement, so we both went into the guard/reserves.  We do have to wait for the retirement, but we now make more than we did on active duty plus we have a happier family.

I'd say it all depends on your family life and employment possibilities.  Don't put yourself in a worse position.  Change isn't always for the better.

[HawgFanOahu]

TO:  HawgFanOahu

Appreciate your service too.

However, from your TWO posts in this thread, it's obvious you believe:
1.  That your benefits are being eroded, Congress is screwing you, they can't be trusted, and blah, blah, blah.
2.  FlyingRzrbkAF, and others still on active duty, are facing some real challenges, but if they articulate how absurd they believe it to be, first hand ... they are  just "whiners".

Unlike you and I, those on active duty are facing some real, and new challenges, that we never faced in our careers.  With the current congressional, military, and civilian leadership in Washington,  I see nothing that would make me believe their choices in handling the active duty force will be well thought out, with a few Congressional exceptions.

Be it career progression, advancement, quality of life, and ,yes, even retirement,  that leadership will put themselves first, and the troops last.  IMHO.  And that scathing belief is directed as much at the "4-stars", and any of the civilians.

You may be a great guy ...  but your first few posts here don't convey that to me.  Food for thought. 

Hello SteveInArk,

Please allow me to respond:
1.  Not a belief.  Fact.  As a fellow vet, you know it too.
2.  Please read again.  I did not say anyone was being a "whiner" (I've sure done my share.  Probably more.).  I said that's how it came across to me.  Everyone has a rough day once in a while.  I understand that.  Believe me, I saw my fair share of absurdities as well.  Sounds like things haven't changed much.  But when the BS pushes someone who, by all appearances, is a great officer or NCO to the point of doubt, it might be time to look for the door.  A military member should not have to make a decison between doing their job and getting promoted.  I saw it, you saw it, everyone saw it.  Whoever filled the squares soonest got promoted over the folks out there doing the job.  And IMHO, that's wrong.  But many have to make that decision.  Often the best, quickest way to change things for the better is to walk away.  And that sucks.  It sucks for the person who has put in the time and effort, the people around them, and it sucks for our military.  But it will eventually make things better for those who follow.

Next paragraph:  please see 1 in your post above.  Hmmm.  Sound familiar? Doesn't matter whether you're active, disabled vet, or retired.

Last paragraph:  Can't disagree.  Sounds like things haven't changed much.

Last sentence:  Thank you for your opinion.  Opinions help folks understand how they are perceived by others.  But most importantly, I respect your right to have an opinion and be able to voice it. 

I don't post much.  In fact, I don't post unless I read something that bothers me enough I feel I have to say something.  And I usually think about it for awhile before I post.  Just so you know. 

If you ever come over to Oahu, let me know.  I'll buy you a beer or three.  Aloha.

[HawgFanOahu]

You are naive if you believe that senior officers in today's military are concerned about anyone's career but their own.  If you want a promotion, you have to go out there and do the things that set you apart.  For those of us in Combat or Combat Support roles, those opportunities are few and far in between.  We're so busy with our jobs, we don't have time for extra-curricular volunteer activities and things like that because, by golly, we like to spend some time with our families.

And, before you assume, I've already been selected for promotion so I'm not some jaded individual responding to you.  However, I made that promotion happen at the expense of the health of my family's relationship.

Some of us here have been more involved in the war fighting than others, so making a blanket statement such as you did doesn't necessarily apply in his situation.  Senior officers won't go out of their way to get you those positions, evaluations, etc, unless you "scratch their back."  I've seen it too many times over the last 5 or so years.

Hi Nate,

Thanks for the response.  I've read many of your posts and truly believe you are one of our country's finest.  I have the utmost respect for you first as a medic and later as a combat pilot.

In reply, It's always been that way to some extent.  Unfortunately, until people speak by using their feet, nothing will change.  In the civilian world, personnel turnover points to questionable management.  Military, too.  Turnover is costly.  And it usually comes down to dollars doesn't it?

Please reread my posts.  Don't read into them.  They are very straightforward and direct.

I wish you the best in Dothan/Enterprise, Alabama.  Wear your Hog gear proudly down in LA.  It pisses off the locals.  Aloha.

[Tejas_Pete]

Family and financial stability are two other big factors. I know guys who have been in a decade who live paycheck to paycheck and have zero invested for retirement. Probably best to stay in and do the 20 especially if they have spouses that don't work and / or kids.

I know other guys that invested all their money from multiple deployments early in their career and drive paid off cars. A lot easier for them to walk at 8, 9, 10 years in knowing that they have upwards of $200k stashed away. Especially for guys that are single or are DINKs.

[Old Tusk]

The post here would lead one to think there are two options. Retire early or stay. Everyone wants to ignore the disaster of RIF. The very first question is how good do you feel about not being Rifed. Of course, this an almost unanswerable question because how many will take early retirement or the criteria aren't known, but, if you don't feel very confident about surviving a RIF, you have to take early retirement.

Another thing to consider is the older you are entering the job market the more limited the opportunities.

[riccoar]

Fast burner!  She isn't eligible until next year.  If the rule stay the same and she make E-8, she still won't be eligible because of her date of rank (they want to keep fresh folk in the force). 

Yep.  E-6 was only one she did not make first time, but she was #1 non selectee.  Made it the second time and MSgt her first time.  She is originally in the med field but just had to accept a job as a MTI to stay in.  That probably means no early retirement now, but she definitely said if she can't get 15, she will be gone at 20.

[Ragnar Hogbrok]

I'll stick it out for the 20.  The money lost for those five years would make it difficult to justify an earlier transition to the civilian sector...unless I get a guaranteed six-figure salary with bennies.

However, by being 40 years old when I retire from the military, I will be at a distinct disadvantage when applying for civilian employment that doesn't directly correspond with my MOS.

So, I have determined that will attempt to work a job for five years post retirement until I can transition into full-time self employment.  I don't want to work for anyone again after that point...except customers. 

[Old Tusk]

Mate, it appears to me that you and pheine are in completely different positions. For all he knows staying may well not be an option. Your options were leave with no retirement or hang in for 5 more. 

To me, get a slightly reduced pension now and enter the civilian workforce earlier is almost a no brainer. The only risk is employment. And that risk could be less now than a few years down the line.

[HawgFanOahu]

Yep.  E-6 was only one she did not make first time, but she was #1 non selectee.  Made it the second time and MSgt her first time.  She is originally in the med field but just had to accept a job as a MTI to stay in.  That probably means no early retirement now, but she definitely said if she can't get 15, she will be gone at 20.

This is so ripe I can't bring myself to respond.

[Airforcehawg]

Our Chief briefed today that 25K plus vol'd for early separation within the first 24 hours. A breakdown by rank was not available.  Was also told that 95% of those that have QFI'S will be separated.

[Tejas_Pete]

These drawdowns are entertaining to watch. I'm more excited about watching the productivity of those forced into separation once they get that email from HRC.

[Flying Razorback]

These drawdowns are entertaining to watch. I'm more excited about watching the productivity of those forced into separation once they get that email from HRC.

I think that's why they're pushing the timeline back to start the process and then making the notification to separation timeline so short.  It would be nice to have a year to know you're being kicked out, but I probably wouldn't do much in that year besides shop for a new job.

[Tejas_Pete]

Agreed. They are saying those separated will get 9 months. Considering most officers carry between 40 - 50 leave days that knocks off some time, then outprocessing / ACAP knocks off time which really leave about 6 - 7 months from time of notification until the person isn't at work anymore.

[Tejas_Pete]

I can just see it now.....someone does three delpoyments, serves for 8 - 10 years, gets an email from HRC saying thanks but Army doesn't need you anymore. Next email is from S3 asking why your slides for some working group / CUB / BUB / BUA / Command and Staff / training meeting etc aren't due. I think my response would be GFY.

[Ragnar Hogbrok]

I can just see it now.....someone does three delpoyments, serves for 8 - 10 years, gets an email from HRC saying thanks but Army doesn't need you anymore. Next email is from S3 asking why your slides for some working group / CUB / BUB / BUA / Command and Staff / training meeting etc aren't due. I think my response would be GFY.

You would then get berating emails with lots of buzz words such as, "professionalism," "readiness," "discipline," "standards," etc.

It's all about what you can do for your commander to get him promoted at that point.

[Airforcehawg]

Well the numbers for Security Forces have been released. Overall, we are looking at min 4K cut, (possibly closer to 5K) according to our top Cop...which would be about a 1/5 of our total manning. The number on the left is the cut number. The number on the right is the the amount of folks that are going up to the review board. In my squadron we have 20+ E-7's, and only 4 of us are not on the list. Basically all that have been in over 20 years were on it.

SrA: 1500-1300 (not a misprint. ..Over 100%)
SSgt: 1083-3188
TSgt: 950-1482
MSgt: 397-414
SMSgt: 7-103

Going to be crazy

[the_kosher_pig]

From a non military person I must say this is a shame. 

[pheine78]

Yep.  E-6 was only one she did not make first time, but she was #1 non selectee.  Made it the second time and MSgt her first time.  She is originally in the med field but just had to accept a job as a MTI to stay in.  That probably means no early retirement now, but she definitely said if she can't get 15, she will be gone at 20.

She sounds like the type of person we don't want to lose; but the type of person that see's the writing on the wall and is planning on getting out.  Over the last month and a half I have seen a lot of good folks put in for TERA or early separation, and several not so good folks, those I would expect to try to get out.  My hope is that the inflated rating system doesn't affect the RIF too much, but I think we all know it will happen.  I have been rating my folks fairly for years now, and I hope it is the same across the board.

[pheine78]

Well the numbers for Security Forces have been released. Overall, we are looking at min 4K cut, (possibly closer to 5K) according to our top Cop...which would be about a 1/5 of our total manning. The number on the left is the cut number. The number on the right is the the amount of folks that are going up to the review board. In my squadron we have 20+ E-7's, and only 4 of us are not on the list. Basically all that have been in over 20 years were on it.

SrA: 1500-1300 (not a misprint. ..Over 100%)
SSgt: 1083-3188
TSgt: 950-1482
MSgt: 397-414
SMSgt: 7-103

Going to be crazy

Unfortunately, I think all 20+ year MSgt are going to be cut.  What will this do for experience?  The same thing is going on in CE and I shudder to think about what will be left.  For us there are a lot of folks that will never make Senior, but their craftsmanship and know-how make the squadron tick.  I don't like this. 

[Tejas_Pete]

Times are definitely changing. 04 board results released today and only 65% were promoted. This is the same year group that in 2008 / 2009 were being paid 30 - 35k bonuses to stay in.

[Pork Twain]

As my Chief told us the other day, the Air Force decided to fly this program while it was being built and the implementation has been a disaster.  I would not choose the early out, because although it might not seem like a lot over a month, it is a lot over the rest of your life.  The military is not in the business of offering sep program that helps the member more than it helps them.

The Air Force is sneaky though...  I was at 18y11m when I received my rip for a move to Charlottesville.  I chose to go ahead and reenlist to take it and I am loving Virgina, even more once my family gets here in June.

[YankHog]

You would then get berating emails with lots of buzz words such as, "professionalism," "readiness," "discipline," "standards," etc.

It's all about what you can do for your commander to get him promoted at that point.

hey Chief, just curious if that's you in your profile pic, I happened to be walking through the lobby in our HQ and it just so happens that pic is on the Aviation Warrant recruiting poster.....

[Ragnar Hogbrok]

hey Chief, just curious if that's you in your profile pic, I happened to be walking through the lobby in our HQ and it just so happens that pic is on the Aviation Warrant recruiting poster.....

Yes, that's me. Is it an official DA poster? If so, the Army stole it from my Facebook. Do me a favor, take a picture of the poster and send it to me, please.

Where are you stationed?

[YankHog]

Yes, that's me. Is it an official DA poster? If so, the Army stole it from my Facebook. Do me a favor, take a picture of the poster and send it to me, please.

Where are you stationed?

Ha figures, i'm in ARCENT HQ at Shaw, i'll see if I can grab a flyer to take out of the bldg since it's secure.

[YankHog]

Yes, that's me. Is it an official DA poster? If so, the Army stole it from my Facebook. Do me a favor, take a picture of the poster and send it to me, please.

Where are you stationed?

false alarm, I looked closer, it's the same helmet and optics but when I got a closer look it's a different face.....USAREC recruiting poster but no flyers.