Bielema... Yay or nay?

[247Hog]

Well I suppose it had to happen since I hadn't seen today's thread of "should he or shouldn't he be gone" as yet. Glad to see that things are right with the world now.

[Russ22]

I'd worry about Sumlin if I was you, he may need help to his room again, real soon. 

Bert helps us with that as he had made that an auto-win in September.  Sumlin's worst year is still better than the best the hogs have done under Bert.

[HogHomer]

Bret helps us with that as he had made that an auto-win in September.  Sumlin's worst year is still better than the best the hogs have done under Bret.

Considering the amount of talent you have laying at your feet in Texas I would be concerned that you aren't doing better. Especially with Texas being as down as they are.

[ricepig]

Bret helps us with that as he had made that an auto-win in September.  Sumlin's worst year is still better than the best the hogs have done under Bret.

So, it would seem you would want him to stay, instead of trolling a Hog board. Which coach has done "less" with more talent, lol??

[Dwillhog66]

Buyout aside, if he doesn't win 8 games this year....should he be gone?  He was hired as a hotshot and a recruiter - and hasn't delivered.  If the buyout $$$ isn't an issue, what is his expectations?.....we are being talked about as a lightweight.  How long before JL pulls the trigger?  I say 8-9 wins or his throne gets hotter than hell.

Not sure where u got the recruiting part. He never recruited at a high level at Wisconsin. IMO, he was hired to be a program builder based on player development through redshirting. We're still a few years away from having what Wisconsin has as far as upperclassmen who have redshirted.
Regardless of whether coach is here in 2 years, I feel very good about the stability of the program and believe we will be similar to Wisconsin as far as having a new coach and still be able to compete at a high level.
Like him or not, think he's a good coach or not, IMO, the Arkansas football program is in better shape then it has been in decades. Coach B has been a blessing to our beloved university.

[Deep Shoat]

Not sure where u got the recruiting part. He never recruited at a high level at Wisconsin. IMO, he was hired to be a program builder based on player development through redshirting. We're still a few years away from having what Wisconsin has as far as upperclassmen who have redshirted.
Regardless of whether coach is here in 2 years, I feel very good about the stability of the program and believe we will be similar to Wisconsin as far as having a new coach and still be able to compete at a high level.
Like him or not, think he's a good coach or not, IMO, the Arkansas football program is in better shape then it has been in decades. Coach B has been a blessing to our beloved university.

Nobody believes in building a foundation.  They just want the world's tallest building.

[Hawghiggs]

 Look at the state of South Carolina. Coastal Carolina won the Baseball championship last season. Clemson won the football championship. Now the women's championship will have to go through USC, and the men's might also after tonight. 

[GuvHog]

Nobody believes in building a foundation.  They just want the world's tallest building.

The foundation had been built, was solid, but was destroyed in April of 2012 and is yet to be rebuilt. Whether CBB can rebuild it is questionable.

[HogHomer]

The foundation had been built, was solid, but was destroyed in April of 2012 and is yet to be rebuilt. Whether CBB can rebuild it is questionable.

Questionable recruiting created an uneasy foundation prior to 2012

[hogcard1964]

I have to agree with Steef. 

On the way home from Auburn, an old coach of mine called and said we looked like we were playing with eight guys on defense. He was furious.  There is no disgrace in losing to Auburn on the road.  I didn't expect to win that game.  It was the way we lost it that shocked me.  Still, every once in a while, you run into a buzz saw.

There was absolutely no reason to have lost at Missouri.  No reason for the defensive lapses in the second half. I'll bet that few of you were comfortable at halftime of the bowl game.

Going back through all the epic collapses and losses under CBB, from Rutgers to Toledo to the A&M games to Missouri last year, it's difficult to have much confidence going into CBB's fifth year.  Do we really lack the depth to compete in the fourth quarter?  Was scheme really the problem on defense?  Was our O-line really as overmatched as it seemed at times? 

I've always liked CBB's philosophy. I like what he has done with the players off the field and in the classroom.  I'd be very comfortable sending my own son to play for him.  I don't care as much about his record as I do about putting a team on the field that competes hard on every down.  One that doesn't lose games because of crazy calls at critical times. 

The 14-13 Alabama loss is a good example of a great game by the team and coaches.  There are other examples of great effort in close losses.  But 10-22 is not up to Arkansas standards.  The schedule doesn't set up well for a team with as many question marks as this team has.  I don't expect to win 6 games this year, but I can accept a losing season if we see a team that is in position, plays fundamentally sound football, and leaves it all on the field.

+1000

The Missouri loss was one of the worst we've ever suffered. 

[RME]

Nobody believes in building a foundation.  They just want the world's tallest building.

I'm all for building a solid foundation and giving a couple years to that process. We know it's vital and that many teams go through it when bringing in a new coach. But, how many more seasons can we go under Bret until "building a foundation" is gone from our vocabulary?
I.e., when does the "he had to build a foundation" argument become weak? If we win 8 this year, and 7 next year, can the "building a foundation" mantra still be considered relevant? Or was the "foundation" built in order to keep us at 8 wins a year?



By the way, not arguing against your point --- I just quoted it because it's relevant.

[Inhogswetrust]

Bret helps us with that as he had made that an auto-win in September.  Sumlin's worst year is still better than the best the hogs have done under Bret.

If any team in the country has underperformed the most with the talent its' had it's your aggies...............................

[Inhogswetrust]

The foundation had been built, was solid, but was destroyed in April of 2012 and is yet to be rebuilt. Whether CBB can rebuild it is questionable.

No the foundation had several cracks in it.

[Dwillhog66]

The foundation had been built, was solid, but was destroyed in April of 2012 and is yet to be rebuilt. Whether CBB can rebuild it is questionable.

I completely disagree with this. If the foundation was solid no way we go winless in conference in 2013. BP is a great coach but no way can anybody show evidence of him building stability in a program, at least to this point. He may do it at Louisville this time but he didn't his first go round there and he didn't build a foundation here either.
Look at Wisconsin, they bring in new coaches and the winning just continues on. IMO that's what we've got going on here now that coach B is here.

[ChitownHawg]

From this OP I predict a long and agonizing Summer. 

[MuskogeeHogFan]

The foundation had been built, was solid, but was destroyed in April of 2012 and is yet to be rebuilt.

Yeah, I'm not buying that.

[PORKULATOR]

Buyout aside, if he doesn't win 8 games this year....should he be gone?  He was hired as a hotshot and a recruiter - and hasn't delivered.  If the buyout $$$ isn't an issue, what is his expectations?.....we are being talked about as a lightweight.  How long before JL pulls the trigger?  I say 8-9 wins or his throne gets hotter than hell.

No one in the SEC west is a light weight. Get out of your mom's basement.

[GuvHog]

I completely disagree with this. If the foundation was solid no way we go winless in conference in 2013. BP is a great coach but no way can anybody show evidence of him building stability in a program, at least to this point. He may do it at Louisville this time but he didn't his first go round there and he didn't build a foundation here either.
Look at Wisconsin, they bring in new coaches and the winning just continues on. IMO that's what we've got going on here now that coach B is here.

The Hogs went winless in the SEC in 2013 because the so called Athletic Director hired a head coach with an offensive scheme the exact opposite of the one the players he inherited were recruited to run. In other words, he tried to put a square peg in a round whole and as a result, 2013 was a disaster. The foundation was indeed there and it was solid but it was destroyed in April of 2012. What was left of it was not built for CBB's offensive scheme and that made matters even worse..

[GuvHog]

Yeah, I'm not buying that.

It's true. Bobby's termination destroyed the foundation and later hiring a Big 10 head coach with an offensive scheme the exact opposite of the one the players he inherited were recruited to run made matters even worse. As I stated previously it was basically trying to put a square peg into a round hole and as a result, 2013 was a disaster.

[HogHomer]

The Hogs went winless in the SEC in 2013 because the so called Athletic Director hired a head coach with an offensive scheme the exact opposite of the one the players he inherited were recruited to run. In other words, he tried to put a square peg in a round whole and as a result, 2013 was a disaster. The foundation was indeed there and it was solid but it was destroyed in April of 2012. What was left of it was not built for CBB's offensive scheme and that made matters even worse..

It wasn't that the players were recruited for a different philosophy it was the fact it seemed players were recruited with no forward thinking. Which in turn left cracks in the foundation. Did BPs offensive scheme use OL? If the foundation had been built prior to 2012 then why was the OL depth so screwed up when coach B got here.

[Dirty]

Yes!  He should be gone but Long?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

It's true. Bobby's termination destroyed the foundation and later hiring a Big 10 head coach with an offensive scheme the exact opposite of the one the players he inherited were recruited to run made matters even worse. As I stated previously it was basically trying to put a square peg into a round hole and as a result, 2013 was a disaster.

No Guv, it isn't.

[ricepig]

This thread has now officially been Guv'd.

[GuvHog]

It wasn't that the players were recruited for a different philosophy it was the fact it seemed players were recruited with no forward thinking. Which in turn left cracks in the foundation. Did BPs offensive scheme use OL? If the foundation had been built prior to 2012 then why was the OL depth so screwed up when coach B got here.

The OL depth wasn't screwed up, they were being asked to run a scheme the exact opposite of the one they were recruited to run. CBB inherited Offensive linemen that were built for speed and quickness to run the spread and tried to turn them into a line built for a power running offense, thus 2013 was a disaster.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

The OL depth wasn't screwed up, they were being asked to run a scheme the exact opposite of the one they were recruited to run. CBB inherited Offensive linemen that were built for speed and quickness to run the spread and tried to turn them into a line built for a power running offense, thus 2013 was a disaster.

Well gee Guv, not to state the obvious, but that is what happens when your HC (with one offensive philosophy) gets his arse fired for lieing to his employer and another HC with another philosophy is hired to take his place. It's not Bielema's fault and your notion that "the foundation for success had been built" is therefore incorrect. But let's go a little further. Tyler Wilson (the trigger man for 2012 season) couldn't stand BP's coaching. They had big problems with each other. Remember Tyler in talking about having Paul Petrino as his OC (instead of BP) make the comment that, "at least I don't get criticized for things that aren't my fault". There was a major personality conflict between Wilson and BP and that would have shown up if BP had still been around in 2012.

[Poker_hog]

But let's go a little further. Tyler Wilson (the trigger man for 2012 season) couldn't stand BP's coaching. They had big problems with each other. Remember Tyler in talking about having Paul Petrino as his OC (instead of BP) make the comment that, "at least I don't get criticized for things that aren't my fault". There was a major personality conflict between Wilson and BP and that would have shown up if BP had still been around in 2012.

Lol at questioning CBP's coaching of qbs.  Ask last years hiesman trophy winner about bob's coaching methods. 

[HogHomer]

Lol at questioning CBP's coaching of qbs.  Ask last years hiesman trophy winner about bob's coaching methods.

I don't see where he questioned his coaching of QBs just that him and Wilson had problems between each other.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Lol at questioning CBP's coaching of qbs.  Ask last years hiesman trophy winner about bob's coaching methods. 

"LOL" at your reading comprehension. Maybe you need to re-read since you didn't get it the first time. I'm not questioning BP's ability to coach QB's, I was just stating a fact that Wilson and BP didn't get along and Wilson was glad when BP was gone. Personally I believe Tyler would have been much improved and better prepared for the NFL with another year under BP. But that doesn't change the fact that Wilson didn't like being coached by BP.

[Poker_hog]

"LOL" at your reading comprehension. Maybe you need to re-read since you didn't get it the first time. I'm not questioning BP's ability to coach QB's, I was just stating a fact that Wilson and BP didn't get along and Wilson was glad when BP was gone. Personally I believe Tyler would have been much improved and better prepared for the NFL with another year under BP. But that doesn't change the fact that Wilson didn't like being coached by BP.

I read it just fine the first time.  You stated big problems would have shown up in TW's sr year.  That's ridiculous speculation, and not at all consistent with cbp's history of getting high performances from his qbs. 

And guv makes a good point about offensive styles and personnel.  A spread type coach wouldn't have gone 0-8 in the sec like cbb did his first year. 

[Swine-as-wine]

Those of you who don't like this thread....start one you DO like.

Yes...this has been discussed before.

It's not like there's a lot ELSE to talk about right now....and last year sucked bad enough for this to still be germane.

I ain't seen no Germans

[hoglady]

It's spring - a fresh slate, a new team, a few changes on the coaching side.
I'll be excited for college football to begin in the fall and hopeful for a very good season.
It's a Yay for me unless poor play in the fall moves me to a Nay.

[Justifiable Hogicide]

I say yay.  He's done everything asked of him.

Yay.

[Steef]

I ain't seen no Germans

They're still in Hawaii.

Can't get em to leave.

[Sivad]

Buyout aside, if he doesn't win 8 games this year....should he be gone?  He was hired as a hotshot and a recruiter - and hasn't delivered.  If the buyout $$$ isn't an issue, what is his expectations?.....we are being talked about as a lightweight.  How long before JL pulls the trigger?  I say 8-9 wins or his throne gets hotter than hell.

The perfect April Fools Day post.

[Deep Shoat]

The foundation had been built, was solid, but was destroyed in April of 2012 and is yet to be rebuilt. Whether CBB can rebuild it is questionable.

Good grief Guv. Do you even read the idiocy you type?

[SamBuckhart]

Hael yea. Go HOGS.

[Hollywood870]

We should exercise patience. Recruiting is getting better. Cole Kelly could be awesome. I'll get on a drunken rampage later in the year and demand his firing. This I can guarantee.

[HossHog]

You should take schedule into effect. @bama@LSU@OlePiss@USCe. That's already 2 for sure losses and 2 toss ups. And god knows we can't beat A&M. Maybe this will be the year though. Woo Pig

[Al Boarland]

I suspect CBB will lead the team to 7/8 wins. Somes fans will talk about how they demand more and others will come up with a variety of excuses. Come next Spring the excuse fans will be filled with hope and the fans that demand more will talk about hot seats.

[Biggus Piggus]

We should exercise patience. Recruiting is getting better. Cole Kelly could be awesome. I'll get on a drunken rampage later in the year and demand his firing. This I can guarantee.

Perfect.

[gchamblee]

It's true. Bobby's termination destroyed the foundation and later hiring a Big 10 head coach with an offensive scheme the exact opposite of the one the players he inherited were recruited to run made matters even worse. As I stated previously it was basically trying to put a square peg into a round hole and as a result, 2013 was a disaster.

me thinks you don't know what a foundation is

[1highhog]

Guys, I'm not satisfied with 7or 8 win seasons either, but you my as well just relax and watch because CB isn't going anywhere for at least 2 more seasons.  If I could bet the sun, moon and stars I would on this bet because it's a sure thing.  They say there's no such thing as a sure thing, well, Bielema being coach for at least 2 more seasons  is as sure as there will be a sun in the sky tomorrow.

[ChitownHawg]

Well gee Guv, not to state the obvious, but that is what happens when your HC (with one offensive philosophy) gets his arse fired for lieing to his employer and another HC with another philosophy is hired to take his place. It's not Bielema's fault and your notion that "the foundation for success had been built" is therefore incorrect. But let's go a little further. Tyler Wilson (the trigger man for 2012 season) couldn't stand BP's coaching. They had big problems with each other. Remember Tyler in talking about having Paul Petrino as his OC (instead of BP) make the comment that, "at least I don't get criticized for things that aren't my fault". There was a major personality conflict between Wilson and BP and that would have shown up if BP had still been around in 2012.

I agree. It amazes me how many Hogvillians hold this view that CBP had built a solid foundation. I think it was Biggus or Factchecker who went through the recruiting and attrition of CBP. It showed the cracks in the foundation as player attrition was pretty high. CBP's miss rate was pretty high.

Could CBP have repaired and kept the winning going? We will never know. We cannot even look at CBP's history as four years is about the longest he has stayed at a school. I don't think the foundation was solid.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

Bret helps us with that as he had made that an auto-win in September.  Sumlin's worst year is still better than the best the hogs have done under Bret.

Alltime record 41–29–3...   This last little hiccup is a drop in the bucket. I hope you enjoyed it.

[hawg66]

Much of the dissatisfaction over last year is fallout from 2015, I think. That team could have and probably should have won 10 games regular season.  A 10 win season would have turned the heat down on the whole program, and 2016 would have been viewed more as what it really was, an interim to 2017 and 2018. 

If you look at the roster it becomes obvious that the team is getting more and more depth at more and more positions. So 2017 should be good, and 2018 could be really good.   I do think it's a concern that Arkansas seems to lose a couple every year where they couldn't close out.  But that's a mindset, IMO.  To change the mindset I think it will take one special year.  A belief that they're gonna find a way to win.  It's the last piece of the foundation, and the hardest to build.  It's the piece Bielema and every coach after him inherited at Wisconsin.    It's the biggest piece, and the one that BP (and smilin' John) completely destroyed. He's got to show that he can create that.  Only then we will have totally layed that foundation that everyone says we either did or didn't ever have.

If 2018 isn't special, it means that Bielema at Arkansas isn't going to work, IMO.  Personally, I see 8-9 wins this year, and a team in 2018 that can compete for the SEC title.  It may be because I really like the off-field stuff.  However, if Arkansas continues to crap away games, all of that is great but it will be time to move on. 

[GuvHog]

Well gee Guv, not to state the obvious, but that is what happens when your HC (with one offensive philosophy) gets his arse fired for lieing to his employer and another HC with another philosophy is hired to take his place. It's not Bielema's fault and your notion that "the foundation for success had been built" is therefore incorrect. But let's go a little further. Tyler Wilson (the trigger man for 2012 season) couldn't stand BP's coaching. They had big problems with each other. Remember Tyler in talking about having Paul Petrino as his OC (instead of BP) make the comment that, "at least I don't get criticized for things that aren't my fault". There was a major personality conflict between Wilson and BP and that would have shown up if BP had still been around in 2012.

I agree that it isn't Bieiema's fault and I have stated that before. CBB was just put in a bad situation by Jeff Long.

As for BP and Tyler Wilson, it's no secret that BP wasn't a players coach but the players respected his authority. Tyler got his wish in 2012 as Paul Petrino became his OC/QB coach and we all witnessed what a disaster that was.

[Inhogswetrust]

I agree that it isn't Bieiema's fault and I have stated that before. CBB was just put in a bad situation by Jeff Long.

As for BP and Tyler Wilson, it's no secret that BP wasn't a players coach but the players respected his authority. Tyler got his wish in 2012 as Paul Petrino became his OC/QB coach and we all witnessed what a disaster that was.

It was NOT Jeff Longs fault that it was a bad situation! It was someone else's fault that you refuse to want to admit. Respecting someone's authority due to their job is not the same as respecting them overall. I've had a couple of bosses I respected the fact they had authority over me on the job but I had no respect for them. Players have to respect the authority of the position of coach.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I agree. It amazes me how many Hogvillians hold this view that CBP had built a solid foundation. I think it was Biggus or Factchecker who went through the recruiting and attrition of CBP. It showed the cracks in the foundation as player attrition was pretty high. CBP's miss rate was pretty high.

Could CBP have repaired and kept the winning going? We will never know. We cannot even look at CBP's history as four years is about the longest he has stayed at a school. I don't think the foundation was solid.

Just as an example, from the 2008 through the 2012 signing classes, Arkansas signed 20 offensive linemen. Out of that 20 there were 11 that didn't pan out in some way (left the program for one reason or another and/or never really played). That is 9 who stuck and played, over the course of 5 years. Is that what we would call a solid foundation?

Overall from the 2008-2012 recruiting classes we signed 140 players and 66 of them didn't pan out or left the program in some way. That is an attrition rate of 47.1%. So again, a solid foundation? Not exactly.

[Steef]

Just as an example, from the 2008 through the 2012 signing classes, Arkansas signed 20 offensive linemen. Out of that 20 there were 11 that didn't pan out in some way (left the program for one reason or another and/or never really played). That is 9 who stuck and played, over the course of 5 years. Is that what we would call a solid foundation?

Overall from the 2008-2012 recruiting classes we signed 140 players and 66 of them didn't pan out or left the program in some way. That is an attrition rate of 47.1%. So again, a solid foundation? Not exactly.

Good info, M.

Do you happen to know what Bielema's attrition rate is so far?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Good info, M.

Do you happen to know what Bielema's attrition rate is so far?

I haven't checked it all out but I know that just looking at the 2013 class the attrition rate went down to 8 out of the 23 player signing class (34.8%). That's less than any year under BP.

2014 is 20% so far.

Edit: 2015: 8.6%  2016: so far 0.0%