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Scott Sutton anyone?

Started by Modsquad24, March 08, 2005, 04:33:18 pm

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Amityvillehogger

Isn't rosenblatt creightons home field...(sorry double post)
Member # 2987.
Registered - 02-23-2005

justmakeit2thebcs

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So why did JFB think he was smart when he hired Heath? It wasn't smart. To be blunt, it was stupid.
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Read Irwin's post, JFB hands were tied by the lawyers in hiring Bill Self.  The commitee wanted Heath, JFB went along.  All you saw was show put on by JFB after the Heath was hired.  What do you expect Frank to do?  Get up there in a press conference and say "I really wanted to hire Self, but this is the best the committe would let me do ?  He only had $1.034 million to work with.  Even your hindsight isn't 20/20.

 

HogInMemphis

Quote from: justmakeit2thebcs on March 09, 2005, 03:06:17 pm
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So why did JFB think he was smart when he hired Heath? It wasn't smart. To be blunt, it was stupid.
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Read Irwin's post, JFB hands were tied by the lawyers in hiring Bill Self.  The commitee wanted Heath, JFB went along.  All you saw was show put on by JFB after the Heath was hired.  What do you expect Frank to do?  Get up there in a press conference and say "I really wanted to hire Self, but this is the best the committe would let me do ?  He only had $1.034 million to work with.  Even your hindsight isn't 20/20.

See my second post. Hiring by committee is a bad way to do things. Again, if that's the way it is and lawyers and committees are restricting who will be hired, then things are FUBAR at U of A.

The Master Of All

Quote from: mikeirwin on March 09, 2005, 06:35:52 am
Quote from: The Master Of All on March 09, 2005, 12:28:42 am
Morons, we got lucky that Van Horn happened to be the best young baseball coach in the country and a former second baseman at the University.

There are no great young basketball coaches that played point guard here.

The two situations are apples and oranges.
Yea, we're all morons while you have it figured out. I'm glad you are so smart. Somebody once said, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
Van Horn did not come back simply because of his ties to Arkansas. If you believe otherwise, go ask him. Frank had to make some MAJOR concessions to get him. Look around, 250 K per year is top dollar for a baseball coach. The upkeep alone for the grounds crew at Baum is something Broyles would not have even considered a few years ago. Paying out the butt is really not Frank's style. He likes to hire coaches cheap, work their butts off and fire them when he senses they're over the hill. However with Van Horn and when Nolan was fired I saw a change in Frank. Remember that he was willing to pay big bucks to get Bill Self. The lawyers advised him that paying more than Nolan was getting for a White coach would increase Nolan's chances of winning his promised lawsuit.
I think the committe's days are over. I could be wrong about that but my guess is even if there is a committee involved in the hiring of the next football or basketball coach Frank will run the show unlike the last two times out.
Obviously Van Horn playing second at this University helped in convincing him to take the job.  You realize that as well as I do, and although I agree that JFB had to make some big sacrifices, one of the big reasons Van Horn was even listening was that he went here.

I hope the committee's days are done.  One thing we can all agree on is that committee's don't make decisions, they cause conflict.
Without me, you people would just be confused.

mikeirwin

March 09, 2005, 04:48:48 pm #54 Last Edit: March 09, 2005, 05:20:01 pm by mikeirwin
Quote from: drakehog on March 09, 2005, 11:04:56 am
[Irwin proposes that JFB didn't hire him, that the committee chose Heath. Is this incorrect?
A member of our sports staff was good friends with a head coach who was in turn good friends with one of Bill Self's assistant coaches. The head coach hooked us up with this guy. Self's assistant told us that Frank had made an offer of 1.034 million (or something close to that). Self went to his AD and said Arkansas had made him an offer and he was considering it. The Illinois AD made a counter offer in the 1.5 million range. The assistant coach told us that Frank then told Self that his hands were tied. He could not go higher because lawyers advised him that the new Arkansas coach could not get more than Nolan was getting especially if he were a White coach. So that ended that.
At the press conference to hire Heath Frank came up to me and said, "You didn't do us any favors by reporting that business about Self. Stan Heath was our first and only choice."
At that point I looked Frank in the eye and said, "Come on coach, we were talking directly to one of Bill Self's assistants and he told us everything that you offered including the part about not being able to pay more than Nolan was getting."
Frank smiled and said, "Well then, you have to report what you know."
Of course he wanted everybody to believe Stan was the first and only choice, just like he tried to convince us when Nolan was hired that he didn't talk to Rollie Massimino first.
As for you guys who say it's Frank's fault, he hired Heath.... I'm sure if any of you had been in his shoes you would have told John White to take his committee and stick it.
Regardless of what some of you think Frank can't go around telling the Chancellor what to do. Yes he finally went head to head with White over the issue of forcing Frank to retire. Frank won that fight. He called in some big time markers. But that's something you do maybe once and only when the situation is right.
I'm not saying that Frank totally opposed the hiring of Stan Heath or Houston Nutt. I am saying that those guys were not his choice. In both cases the committee got the guy they wanted.

Jim Harris

Quote from: mikeirwin on March 09, 2005, 04:48:48 pm
Quote from: drakehog on March 09, 2005, 11:04:56 am
[Irwin proposes that JFB didn't hire him, that the committee chose Heath. Is this incorrect?
A member of our sports staff was good friends with a head coach who was in turn good friends with one of Bill Self's assistant coaches. The head coach hooked us up with this guy. Self's assistant told us that Frank had made an offer of 1.034 million (or something close to that). Self went to his AD and said Arkansas had made him an offer and he was considering it. The Illinois AD made a counter offer in the 1.5 million range. The assistant coach told us that Frank then told Self that his hands were tied. He could not go higher because lawyers advised him that the new Arkansas coach could not get more than Nolan was getting especially if he were a White coach. So that ended that.
At the press conference to hire Heath Frank came up to me and said, "You didn't do us any favors by reporting that business about Self. Stan Heath was our first and only choice."
At that point I looked Frank in the eye and said, "Come on coach, we were talking directly to one of Bill Self's assistants and he told us everything that you offered including the part about not being able to pay more than Nolan was getting."
Frank smiled and said, "Well then, you have to report what you know."
Of course he wanted everybody to believe Stan was the first and only choice, just like he tried to convinced us when Nolan was hired that he didn't talk to Rollie Massimino first.
As for you guys who say it's Frank's fault, he hired Heath.... I'm sure if any of you had been in his shoes you would have told John White to take his committee and stick it.
Regardless of what some of you think Frank can't go around telling the Chancellor what to do. Yes he finally went head to head with White over the issue of forcing Frank to retire. Frank won that fight. He called in some big time markers. But that's something you do maybe once and only when the situation is right.
I'm not saying that Frank totally opposed the hiring of Stan Heath or Houston Nutt. I am saying that those guys were not his choice. In both cases the committee got the guy they wanted.

Mike, thanks for sharing all that.
"We've been trying to build a program on a 7-8 win per season business model .... We upgraded the Business Model." -- John Tyson

yosemite HAM



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Did NC hire a Heath when Smith retired? Nope..
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Actually yes they did, his name was Matt Doherty and he lasted 3 years before they went after Williams.

HogInMemphis

Quote from: yosemite HAM on March 09, 2005, 08:05:05 pm


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Did NC hire a Heath when Smith retired? Nope..
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Actually yes they did, his name was Matt Doherty and he lasted 3 years before they went after Williams.

Will Heath last any longer than Doherty? Or will we not be as intelligent as the decisionmakers were at NC?

yosemite HAM

Quote from: HogInMemphis on March 09, 2005, 08:11:36 pm
Quote from: yosemite HAM on March 09, 2005, 08:05:05 pm


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Did NC hire a Heath when Smith retired? Nope..
Quote

Actually yes they did, his name was Matt Doherty and he lasted 3 years before they went after Williams.

Will Heath last any longer than Doherty? Or will we not be as intelligent as the decisionmakers were at NC?

Like others have stated before, it would be a surprise to see us go after a big name coach until our Nolan contract expires.

bknight33

Then I stand corrected Mr Irwin. 

Oklahawg

Living in Tulsa has provided a unique view on Scott Sutton...the one at ORU. Because UA is down they are not on TV here like ORU is.  Sutton has recruited better talent than UA has on the court after Brewer and Townes. Green, Tutt and Bluitt all fill roles the Hogs need filled. ESPN last night said ORU was normally 72% from the foulline, but was 11-21 vs. Oakland. Really poor timing for a flat game. You don't hire a man based on one ESPN game just like you don't fire one for the same.

If you wish to dog Sutton and the quality of play of ORU then at least watch them play. They deserve an at-large but I bet they don't get it. Sutton would have to upgrade his staff at UA to get national recruiters but the Sutton name and his genetic predisposition to fundamentals would attract interest. Whether UA could (and all of this is double blind-nill speculation, anyway) attract a top-tier HC is anyone's guess.

How far JFB could manipulate the "committee" would be a big part of the next hire. Think of the language spin JFB gave us regarding the HDN to LSU thingy. I agree with Mike that JFB has to pick his battles carefully and he has to be distinctly aware that he may have two high-profile hirings to make before long. Hope not, but its possible. Burning the Chancellor on one hire means JFB loses total control of picking the next.

The circumstances surrounding Van Horn coming to UA are so different than any other hire made by Broyles I'm surprised no one has pointed it out. First, he replaced a RETIRING coach, not one forced out, fired, or one who snuck out with a U-Haul in the middle of the night. Second, the retiring coach was in a position to affect the choice, not to mention and attractiveness of the position. DVH was DeBryien's (sp?) hand-picked successor, or so it seemed (could be very wrong), and the baseball boosters were behind that. Third, because there was no rancor and the team had been somewhat successful even in Norm's latter years it was not an unattractive gig. Finally, a good set of structural resources still had room for improvement. What do you do with RRS or BWA as a cookie to the next FB or hoops coach?

College baseball is still a game that attracts lifetime coaches. Is there such a thing in college football or basketball any longer? Doubt it.

Any chance that Heath leaves on his own for a Big Ten or similar gig?
I am a Hog fan. I was long before my name was etched, twice, on the sidewalks on the Hill. I will be long after Sam Pittman and Eric Mussleman are coaches, and Hunter Yuracheck is AD. I am a Hog fan when we win, when we lose and when we don't play. I love hearing the UA band play the National Anthem on game day, but I sing along to the Alma Mater. I am a Hog fan.<br /><br />A liberal education is at the heart of a civil society, and at the heart of a liberal education is the act of teaching. - Bart Giamatti <br /><br />"It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth,' and so it goes away. Puzzling." ― Robert M. Pirsig<br /><br />Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too.  – Yogi Berra

Fatty McGee

Quote from: HogInMemphis on March 09, 2005, 08:11:36 pm
Quote from: yosemite HAM on March 09, 2005, 08:05:05 pm


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Did NC hire a Heath when Smith retired? Nope..
Quote

Actually yes they did, his name was Matt Doherty and he lasted 3 years before they went after Williams.

Will Heath last any longer than Doherty? Or will we not be as intelligent as the decisionmakers were at NC?

Yes, he will.  Doherty had an outright players revolt which was pretty well known. 
Bandit: Hey wait a minute, wait a minute. Why do you want that beer so bad?
Little Enos: Cause he's thirsty, dummy!

Amityvillehogger

shouldn't it be about time for us to have NOwin paid for..... ???
Member # 2987.
Registered - 02-23-2005

 

HogInMemphis

Quote from: xna1501 on March 10, 2005, 08:49:09 am







Like others have stated before, it would be a surprise to see us go after a big name coach until our Nolan contract expires.
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I have to agree with this analogy.  I don't think we'll be doing much at all until Nolangate is all over and paid off.

Although I do believe that the powers that be start twisting arms around the country and get his a** hired somewhere else.

Analogy? Why do folks use words of which they do not know the meaning?

Biggus Piggus

[CENSORED]!

mikeirwin

March 10, 2005, 03:57:20 pm #65 Last Edit: March 10, 2005, 03:58:57 pm by mikeirwin
Quote from: Amityvillehogger on March 10, 2005, 08:51:00 am
shouldn't it be about time for us to have NOwin paid for..... ???
As I recall Nolan was due six million. Three million was in the form of an annuity which I believe was paid at the time of his buyout (don't hold me to that). The other three was to be paid at the rate of $500,000 per year for six years. If that's correct he's still due 1.5 million in three more annual installments of $ 500,000.
Yes guys I think getting Nolan paid off is a factor in any decision about Heath. But I can't tell you what Heath's buyout is and that's important. I'm guessing it's not a big number.
I don't think Stan has a guaranteed three more years. In fact Frank was quoted yesterday in reference as to whether or not Arkansas would turn down an NIT bid, "That's a decision that is up to THE COACH." Anybody close to Frank knows that when he's down on an individual or school he doesn't use their name. Example: Arkansas State is JONESBORO. UALR is LITTLE ROCK.

gatecrasher

Quote from: HogInMemphis on March 09, 2005, 08:59:26 am
Quote from: Modsquad24 on March 08, 2005, 04:33:18 pm
I would love to hire Scott Sutton as Arkansas basketball coach if Stan Heath doesn't workout,  he has done a great job building the Oral Roberts program the last 4 years and tonight they have a great chance to lock up a ncaa bid by winning the mid continent conference for the firstime in awhile for their program. If you watch his team tonight, they play team ball and they are very disciplined which equals success. I would be so pleased if they hired Sutton and I think he could have Arkansas back as a perennial power really quick.  Thoughts anyone?

Thoughts? Yeah, I have one on this: OR got beat by a 12-18 team in the finals. So this 12-18 team is going to the NCAAT. A place the Hogs haven't been in 4 y3ars.
that 12-18 team wanted it more than ORU did...not to mention the fact that they played one of the most NON-CUPCAKE schedules in the country.  they were battle tested by the time they got to the conference tourney.  Unlike our squad, who played teams that Southeast Three Creeks State could have beaten.

Fatty McGee

Yeah, nothing makes you more "battle tested" than losing by 30 to Illinois and 17 to Mich. State.  And of course losses to UMKC, Valpo, IUPUI are very important. 

Much tougher than the SEC schedule.
Bandit: Hey wait a minute, wait a minute. Why do you want that beer so bad?
Little Enos: Cause he's thirsty, dummy!

gatecrasher

Quote from: Fatty McGee on March 10, 2005, 04:46:24 pm
Yeah, nothing makes you more "battle tested" than losing by 30 to Illinois and 17 to Mich. State. And of course losses to UMKC, Valpo, IUPUI are very important.

Much tougher than the SEC schedule.
Damn I thought i'd go all day without hearing from you lol...(Note to self...order 2 dozen Fatty McGee glasses and put them in stock in my warehouse @work with the safety glasses!).  Anyhoo, here's my point...you should have seen that team battling, scratching and clawing for rebounds, steals, etc...they hustled on every possession offensively and defensively...they beat the #1 seed in their own house...with the exception of maybe the Kentucky and Illinois games, name another game where the Hogs went out and left it all on the court!  Well, let me put it simply...Oakland is going to the NCAA Tournament...we ain't (barring a real miracle).  So what if they lose in the 1st rd?

Fatty McGee

Quote from: gatecrasherfan on March 10, 2005, 04:54:10 pm
Quote from: Fatty McGee on March 10, 2005, 04:46:24 pm
Yeah, nothing makes you more "battle tested" than losing by 30 to Illinois and 17 to Mich. State. And of course losses to UMKC, Valpo, IUPUI are very important.

Much tougher than the SEC schedule.
Damn I thought i'd go all day without hearing from you lol...(Note to self...order 2 dozen Fatty McGee glasses and put them in stock in my warehouse @work with the safety glasses!). Anyhoo, here's my point...you should have seen that team battling, scratching and clawing for rebounds, steals, etc...they hustled on every possession offensively and defensively...they beat the #1 seed in their own house...with the exception of maybe the Kentucky and Illinois games, name another game where the Hogs went out and left it all on the court! Well, let me put it simply...Oakland is going to the NCAA Tournament...we ain't (barring a real miracle). So what if they lose in the 1st rd?

Put us in the MCC championship against ORU and we'll go to the NCAA Tourney too.  BFD. 

I guess you didn't watch the LSU games, the Alabama games, the Tenn. game or several others the Hogs played in. 
Bandit: Hey wait a minute, wait a minute. Why do you want that beer so bad?
Little Enos: Cause he's thirsty, dummy!

gatecrasher

Quote from: Fatty McGee on March 10, 2005, 05:09:48 pm
Quote from: gatecrasherfan on March 10, 2005, 04:54:10 pm
Quote from: Fatty McGee on March 10, 2005, 04:46:24 pm
Yeah, nothing makes you more "battle tested" than losing by 30 to Illinois and 17 to Mich. State. And of course losses to UMKC, Valpo, IUPUI are very important.

Much tougher than the SEC schedule.
Damn I thought i'd go all day without hearing from you lol...(Note to self...order 2 dozen Fatty McGee glasses and put them in stock in my warehouse @work with the safety glasses!). Anyhoo, here's my point...you should have seen that team battling, scratching and clawing for rebounds, steals, etc...they hustled on every possession offensively and defensively...they beat the #1 seed in their own house...with the exception of maybe the Kentucky and Illinois games, name another game where the Hogs went out and left it all on the court! Well, let me put it simply...Oakland is going to the NCAA Tournament...we ain't (barring a real miracle). So what if they lose in the 1st rd?

Put us in the MCC championship against ORU and we'll go to the NCAA Tourney too. BFD.

I guess you didn't watch the LSU games, the Alabama games, the Tenn. game or several others the Hogs played in.
Well i've got a question..."what have you done for me lately?"  Last night in particular!  The way we played last night ORU would have beaten the shite out of us!  Last night sums up my previous post...they QUIT man!!  They gave up..coaches, players, everyone!!  No hustle, no motion on offense, but I'll stop just shy of saying no heart, cause that's the coaching staff's fault!