Good Theory, or Bad?

[Oklahawg]

The second rule of being in a hole is to not use as a noose the rope offered as a way out.

[Oklahawg]

The third rule of being in a hole is never, ever celebrate getting out of your hole by standing nearby and disrespecting the hole. It will find you a second time.

[WilsonHog]

So I take it then that if you were thinking about going to a certain hospital and HDN told you not to because a doctor on staff there had lied to him, that wouldn't affect your decision at all, would it?   

No, not really

I'm going to just let your response sit there awhile. Just let it be admired.

Actually, I have to.

It has rendered me rather speechless.

[Oklahawg]

The fourth rule of being in a hole is to never change the subject to something like the weather. Discussing a little rain seems harmless, but in holes when it rains, it pours.

[Oklahawg]

The fifth rule about being in a hole is that continuing to dig in hope of finding China only works if you speak Chinese and like fortune cookies.

[Oklahawg]

Guv, we will have a quiz on holes at the end of the evening.

[FLKeysGuy]

Looks like Wilson just threw Guv one of these...

[HatfieldHog]

The obstacles that our program faces have been talked about numerous times. We hear that the calibre of high school football in Arkansas doesn't compare with that in Louisiana, Texas, Alabama, Georgia, and Florida. We here that we're trying to establish a program in one of the toughest conferences in the country, one populated with teams with more tradition than we have. We hear that Fayetteville is hard to recruit to.

I don't agree with those assessments, but just for purposes of argument let's say that they're all 100% true.

Wouldn't it therefore make sense to go out and hire the most qualified, most confident, most skilled head coach around?    

The only obstacle to the University of Arkansas Football Program, is the inability of the Leadership in charge!  Those are the obstacles in our way!  Sam Walton, started his Walton 5&10 with a dream, sold shares from the back of his pickup truck, and he did it all from little ole Northwest Arkansas.  Now, if you are a business that wants to get a piece of the Wal-Mart pie, you are told by the Wal-Mart exec's that you must put an office in little ole Northwest Ark.  That's why there's companies from India to China, with offices in little ole Northwest Arkansas!

I'm gonna make one statement about the Arkansas Football Program:  Someone has lost touch with the dream to be the best!  They have convinced themselves that we can't, and to keep their jobs, they have to convince us that we can't.  You can buy it if you want, but I'm not buying that bill of goods, because it's phony!

If in 20 years, the name of Arkansas football isn't as big as the USC's or Michigan's, it will be because we didn't believe in 2006 that we could be!

See ya

[TOM "tbw1"]

At least we have learned some things from GUV

1.  The only out of state recruits we should sign are those the major schools of that state do not want.  This should really save us a lot of money in the recruiting budget.

2.  No one should have any influence on where someone attends college other than the parents.  Our Arkansas schools should be able to save money since counselors are not needed.

3.  It does not matter how honest an assistant coach is.

Thank you and good night Gracie, I mean Guv.

[Franks and Beans]

The obstacles that our program faces have been talked about numerous times. We hear that the calibre of high school football in Arkansas doesn't compare with that in Louisiana, Texas, Alabama, Georgia, and Florida. We here that we're trying to establish a program in one of the toughest conferences in the country, one populated with teams with more tradition than we have. We hear that Fayetteville is hard to recruit to.

I don't agree with those assessments, but just for purposes of argument let's say that they're all 100% true.

Wouldn't it therefore make sense to go out and hire the most qualified, most confident, most skilled head coach around?    

The only obstacle to the University of Arkansas Football Program, is the inability of the Leadership in charge!  Those are the obstacles in our way!  Sam Walton, started his Walton 5&10 with a dream, sold shares from the back of his pickup truck, and he did it all from little ole Northwest Arkansas.  Now, if you are a business that wants to get a piece of the Wal-Mart pie, you are told by the Wal-Mart exec's that you must put an office in little ole Northwest Ark.  That's why there's companies from India to China, with offices in little ole Northwest Arkansas!

I'm gonna make one statement about the Arkansas Football Program:  Someone has lost touch with the dream to be the best!  They have convinced themselves that we can't, and to keep their jobs, they have to convince us that we can't.  You can buy it if you want, but I'm not buying that bill of goods, because it's phony!

If in 20 years, the name of Arkansas football isn't as big as the USC's or Michigan's, it will be because we didn't believe in 2006 that we could be!

See ya

Hatfield..you couldn't be more right!!!!

[SwinerBock]

Defining what is and what is not a priority recruit obviously is open for speculation on forums such as these. IMO, any kids that is nationally recognized as a 4 or 5 star is a must get unless it is a gross overload at a certain position. There have been a few "bigtime" recruits who went elsewhere but to definitively say they left solely due to HDN I think is stretching it a little. Most notable would be Cedric Houston and Brett Smith.

The out of state recruiting appears to not be that different from the in-state recruiting. The kids that grow up wanting to be HOGS and have the talent usually are, the rest are assumed to want to be HOGS and not actively pursued in what we are finding out is many cases. TRG's recruit interviews have opened many eyes as to just how our recruiters operate and how they are percieved. It has become an increasingly glaring problem in many fans opinions, mine definitely included. I think it is worth noting when a 3 star recruit with barely a handful of offers says he doesn't know who is recruiting him. Not to mention the lack of consistent contact via text message or e-mail. Leadership starts with HDN and in many aspects it seems apparent that either the plan is faulty or non-existant.

I wish you hadn't mentioned Bret Smith. I still can't stand the sight of Bo Hembree to
this day!

Guv, let me pose a scenario and get your thoughts on it.

Let's say your son is a high school player in the state of Arkansas. He wants to be a Razorback. His high school coach wants him to be a Razorback. His friends and teammates want him to be a Razorback.

One of the best friends of your son's high school coach knows one of the Razorback assistant football coaches very well, and the friend contacts that assistant coach several times about the Hogs offering your son a scholarship. Each time the assistant coach tells the friend the same thing: your son is too slow to play SEC football.

A couple of weeks before signing date your son gets the one call from the UA recruiting coordinator that he's been hoping and dreaming of: the Razorbacks have a scholarship for him! Can you imagine how excited your son is?

Wait...what's that? Your son's high school coach calls to tell you that he just personally spoke with another Razorback assistant, the one who his friend has been talking to all along. Turns out that the Razorbacks don't have a scholarship for your son after all, but they're telling him they do because they want him to ultimately walk on after it's too late for him to get a scholarship somewhere else.

So Guv. How would you feel about the Razorback football staff, with the exception of that one assistant coach who shot your son straight?     

Just out of curiousity, where did this kid in your hypothetical scenario end up going to school?

[WilsonHog]

After John Thompson got the word to Bo the kid signed with ASU. He later suffered either a broken neck or a broken back and never played.   

[GuvHog]

After John Thompson got the word to Bo the kid signed with ASU. He later suffered either a broken neck or a broken back and never played.   

I remember that, his name I believe was Mckinney wasn't it? The recruiting coordinator
screwed up big time. He should have let John Thompson handle it. I believe that recruiting
coordinator no longer has that job does he.

[WilsonHog]

After John Thompson got the word to Bo the kid signed with ASU. He later suffered either a broken neck or a broken back and never played.   

I remember that, his name I believe was Mckinney wasn't it? The recruiting coordinator
screwed up big time. He should have let John Thompson handle it. I believe that recruiting
coordinator no longer has that job does he.

No, he doesn't.

I was also there to witness Nutt fall all over himself trying to repair the damage that he should have prevented before it ever happened. That would be a characteristic of an organized and well-run staff though, wouldn't it?   

[GuvHog]

After John Thompson got the word to Bo the kid signed with ASU. He later suffered either a broken neck or a broken back and never played.  

I remember that, his name I believe was Mckinney wasn't it? The recruiting coordinator
screwed up big time. He should have let John Thompson handle it. I believe that recruiting
coordinator no longer has that job does he.

No, he doesn't.

I was also there to witness Nutt fall all over himself trying to repair the damage that he should have prevented before it ever happened. That would be a characteristic of an organized and well-run staff though, wouldn't it?  

How could he prevent something that he didn't know was happening?

[WilsonHog]

How could he prevent something that he didn't know was happening?

Thank you for making my point.

Throw down that shovel and go find a backhoe.

[GuvHog]

How could he prevent something that he didn't know was happening?

Thank you for making my point.

Throw down that shovel and go find a backhoe.

My point is , after HDN found out what happened he went straight to the recruiting
coordinator and ask who gave the authority to offer that scholarship. Not only is that
recruiting coordinator gone, I believe the assistant who made the unauthorized offer is gone
too. The correct action was taken.

[Pork Twain]

A little birdie was walking through a field full of cows when all of a sudden a huge cow pile fell on him.  This little bird was soooo mad at the cow for being so inconsiderate...  He struggled and struggled to get out of the pile when along came a fox and picked him up, dusted him off and ate him.


The moral to this story is that not everyone that shits on you is your enemy and not everyone that picks you up and dusts you off is your friend.

All the hole rules made me think of this so I thought I would share and hope that it would distract you guys so Guv could escape.

[WilsonHog]

How could he prevent something that he didn't know was happening?

Thank you for making my point.

Throw down that shovel and go find a backhoe.

My point is , after HDN found out what happened he went straight to the recruiting
coordinator and ask who gave the authority to offer that scholarship. Not only is that
recruiting coordinator gone, I believe the assistant who made the unauthorized offer is gone
too. The correct action was taken.

Well, I wasn't going to be a jerk and point it out (since I thought it was fairly self-evident), but it was Nutt's job to know what was going on before the scholarship offer was ever extended.

That's called effective leadership. And good organization.

The man has what, maybe nine coaches working under him? I'm pretty sure only seven can recruit off campus. It's not like he's the CEO of an organization with 1,000 employees.

[Richard_white]

How could he prevent something that he didn't know was happening?

Thank you for making my point.

Throw down that shovel and go find a backhoe.

My point is , after HDN found out what happened he went straight to the recruiting
coordinator and ask who gave the authority to offer that scholarship. Not only is that
recruiting coordinator gone, I believe the assistant who made the unauthorized offer is gone
too. The correct action was taken.

Well, I wasn't going to be a jerk and point it out (since I thought it was fairly self-evident), but it was Nutt's job to know what was going on before the scholarship offer was ever extended.

That's called effective leadership. And good organization.

Like a poster always says.  BINGO! +1

[Pork Twain]

Go to bed Guv...  You need to get some rest.  The beating you have taken today makes me tired.

[GuvHog]

How could he prevent something that he didn't know was happening?

Thank you for making my point.

Throw down that shovel and go find a backhoe.

My point is , after HDN found out what happened he went straight to the recruiting
coordinator and ask who gave the authority to offer that scholarship. Not only is that
recruiting coordinator gone, I believe the assistant who made the unauthorized offer is gone
too. The correct action was taken.

Well, I wasn't going to be a jerk and point it out (since I thought it was fairly self-evident), but it was Nutt's job to know what was going on before the scholarship offer was ever extended.

That's called effective leadership. And good organization.

The man has what, maybe nine coaches working under him? It's not like he's the CEO of an organization with 1,000 employees.

An assistant coach or a recruiting coordinator is NEVER to offer a scholarship without H. Nutts Approval. both the recruiting coordinator & the Assistant are gone. the correct action was
taken. That STILL is no excuse for Bo Hembrees Actions the next year.

[SwinerBock]

So, let me see if I got the official Hogville stance down pat... HDN's recruiting coordinator should not be making offers without consulting HDN first, but his offensive coordinator should be completely free of "interference" from HDN to call plays.  Got it.

Now before you go and hand me a shovel too, don't get me wrong.  I feel the same... if HDN didn't know about the McKinney situation until after the fact, then that's just poor staff communication... if he DID know, well... I won't say what I am thinking because there are probably children present.

With that being said, the general tone of this board leads one to believe that the man can do no right.  I'm almost to the point of saying "Win or lose, I hope he's gone after next season because I'm tired of hearing all this negativity."

[Oklahawg]

What is lost in all of this is that HDN allowed the player to be led on--its company policy, although its spiffed up and presented with a bow on top. You can read it in the quotes from recruits who are told to have a good senior year, we'll be watching you, and if you do well we may have a scholie for you.

[WilsonHog]

How could he prevent something that he didn't know was happening?

Thank you for making my point.

Throw down that shovel and go find a backhoe.

My point is , after HDN found out what happened he went straight to the recruiting
coordinator and ask who gave the authority to offer that scholarship. Not only is that
recruiting coordinator gone, I believe the assistant who made the unauthorized offer is gone
too. The correct action was taken.

Well, I wasn't going to be a jerk and point it out (since I thought it was fairly self-evident), but it was Nutt's job to know what was going on before the scholarship offer was ever extended.

That's called effective leadership. And good organization.

The man has what, maybe nine coaches working under him? It's not like he's the CEO of an organization with 1,000 employees.

An assistant coach or a recruiting coordinator is NEVER to offer a scholarship without H. Nutts Approval. both the recruiting coordinator & the Assistant are gone. the correct action was
taken. That STILL is no excuse for Bo Hembrees Actions the next year.

Let me spell it out in simple English, Guv.

(1) I'm the head coach.

(2) You're the assistant coach.

(3) You offer a scholarship without my approval, and a kid get's lied to.

(4) If anyone is to be fired it's me, because the buck stops on my desk.

I'd also point out that no action at all was taken until a similar situation happened with Herb Grigsby a year or two later. 

[GuvHog]

Wrong. I'd fire the assistant and the recruiting coordinator and say I'm terribly sorry it happened,
it was wrong and the ones who made the mistake are no longer here, it will never happen again.
I believe the Grigsby incedent happen under a different recruiting coordniator didn't it?

[nwarazfan]

Wrong. I'd fire the assistant and the recruiting coordinator and say I'm terribly sorry it happened,
it was wrong and the ones who made the mistake are no longer here, it will never happen again.
I believe the Grigsby incedent happen under a different recruiting coordniator didn't it?

Same head coach - see the connection GUV?

[GuvHog]

Wrong. I'd fire the assistant and the recruiting coordinator and say I'm terribly sorry it happened,
it was wrong and the ones who made the mistake are no longer here, it will never happen again.
I believe the Grigsby incedent happen under a different recruiting coordniator didn't it?

Same head coach - see the connection GUV?

No, I see no connection. the correct action was taken in both incedents.
Does that make it Okay for Bo Hembree to Intentionally interfear with Hog
Recruiting to prevent his star players from going to Arkansas?

[ClubChubby]

The obstacles that our program faces have been talked about numerous times. We hear that the calibre of high school football in Arkansas doesn't compare with that in Louisiana, Texas, Alabama, Georgia, and Florida. We here that we're trying to establish a program in one of the toughest conferences in the country, one populated with teams with more tradition than we have. We hear that Fayetteville is hard to recruit to.

I don't agree with those assessments, but just for purposes of argument let's say that they're all 100% true.

Wouldn't it therefore make sense to go out and hire the most qualified, most confident, most skilled head coach around?     

The only obstacle to the University of Arkansas Football Program, is the inability of the Leadership in charge!  Those are the obstacles in our way!  Sam Walton, started his Walton 5&10 with a dream, sold shares from the back of his pickup truck, and he did it all from little ole Northwest Arkansas.  Now, if you are a business that wants to get a piece of the Wal-Mart pie, you are told by the Wal-Mart exec's that you must put an office in little ole Northwest Ark.  That's why there's companies from India to China, with offices in little ole Northwest Arkansas!

I'm gonna make one statement about the Arkansas Football Program:  Someone has lost touch with the dream to be the best!  They have convinced themselves that we can't, and to keep their jobs, they have to convince us that we can't.  You can buy it if you want, but I'm not buying that bill of goods, because it's phony!

If in 20 years, the name of Arkansas football isn't as big as the USC's or Michigan's, it will be because we didn't believe in 2006 that we could be!

See ya

We've got all this money up there right now, but it may not last forever. RRS cost 100 million dollars. Why is frank squandering 100 million dollars on houston nutt?

[GuvHog]

What is lost in all of this is that HDN allowed the player to be led on--its company policy, although its spiffed up and presented with a bow on top. You can read it in the quotes from recruits who are told to have a good senior year, we'll be watching you, and if you do well we may have a scholie for you.

HDN Never allowed the player to be led on. This kid was told by John Thompson that he was too slow from the Git-Go. The fact that another assistant and the recruiting coordinator both acted
without HDNs authorization and without his knowledge is not his fault.

[clew]

wow...i'm out of state and never heard about any of this other than smith wound up at UT because his coach pushed him there.  could someone pm me with the details--i've gotten a lot out of the discussions here, but there are still a few holes (pardon the pun) that need to be filled.

[GuvHog]

wow...i'm out of state and never heard about any of this other than smith wound up at UT because his coach pushed him there.  could someone pm me with the details--i've gotten a lot out of the discussions here, but there are still a few holes (pardon the pun) that need to be filled.

The players name I believe is Mckinney. When Bret Smith was a junior, Mckinney was the Senior QB for Warren. Mckinney wanted to play for Arkansas so his head coach, Bo Hembree
contacted John Thompson the DC at that time for the U of A. Thompson told both Hembree
and the player that the U of A wouldn't offer him a schollie because he was too slow, but
they would like him to walk on and earn one. Later in the year the then Hog recruiting coordinator and another assistant coach offered this player a schollie without H. Nutts
authorization or knowledge of it. H. nutt was furious about it and repremanded  both
the recruiting coordinator and the other assistant, telling them if it ever happened again, theywould be out of a job. Thompson called Hembree and told the player and coach that there was never a schollie offered, and it was a mistake. H. Nutt apologized again and again
for the serious mistake. Bo Hembree was so angry about it that he intentionally interfeared with
his star players recruiting the next year to prevent them from going to the U of A. That move
has angered a lot of people in this state, and especially in the Warren area.

[GrizzledHogFan]

wow...i'm out of state and never heard about any of this other than smith wound up at UT because his coach pushed him there.  could someone pm me with the details--i've gotten a lot out of the discussions here, but there are still a few holes (pardon the pun) that need to be filled.

The players name I believe is Mckinney. When Bret Smith was a junior, Mckinney was the Senior QB for Warren. Mckinney wanted to play for Arkansas so his head coach, Bo Hembree
contacted John Thompson the DC at that time for the U of A. Thompson told both Hembree
and the player that the U of A wouldn't offer him a schollie because he was too slow, but
they would like him to walk on and earn one. Later in the year the then Hog recruiting coordinator and another assistant coach offered this player a schollie without H. Nutts
authorization or knowledge of it. H. nutt was furious about it and repremanded  both
the recruiting coordinator and the other assistant, telling them if it ever happened again, theywould be out of a job. Thompson called Hembree and told the player and coach that there was never a schollie offered, and it was a mistake. H. Nutt apologized again and again
for the serious mistake. Bo Hembree was so angry about it that he intentionally interfeared with
his star players recruiting the next year to prevent them from going to the U of A. That move
has angered a lot of people in this state, and especially in the Warren area.

That's one way to look at it.

[GuvHog]

wow...i'm out of state and never heard about any of this other than smith wound up at UT because his coach pushed him there.  could someone pm me with the details--i've gotten a lot out of the discussions here, but there are still a few holes (pardon the pun) that need to be filled.

The players name I believe is Mckinney. When Bret Smith was a junior, Mckinney was the Senior QB for Warren. Mckinney wanted to play for Arkansas so his head coach, Bo Hembree
contacted John Thompson the DC at that time for the U of A. Thompson told both Hembree
and the player that the U of A wouldn't offer him a schollie because he was too slow, but
they would like him to walk on and earn one. Later in the year the then Hog recruiting coordinator and another assistant coach offered this player a schollie without H. Nutts
authorization or knowledge of it. H. nutt was furious about it and repremanded  both
the recruiting coordinator and the other assistant, telling them if it ever happened again, theywould be out of a job. Thompson called Hembree and told the player and coach that there was never a schollie offered, and it was a mistake. H. Nutt apologized again and again
for the serious mistake. Bo Hembree was so angry about it that he intentionally interfeared with
his star players recruiting the next year to prevent them from going to the U of A. That move
has angered a lot of people in this state, and especially in the Warren area.

That's one way to look at it.

I'm just north of Warren. That's EXACTLY what happened.

[WilsonHog]

Let me say this Guv, as a former high school coach.

If what happened at Warren had happened while I was head coach, my approach would simply have been to call a team meeting and say, "Fellas, this is what happened to Reid McKinney....." I would lay the story out. Then I would say, "Guys, after what has happened I don't trust the coaching staff at Fayetteville, and I don't think you can either. Some of you are definitely going to be recruited by them, and when you make your decision you need to remember what happened to your teammate."   

Guv, as a high school coach my loyalty lies completely with my players and their families. I owe absolutely nothing to any college football program, in-state or out-of-state. I owe nothing to the fans of that program. I owe nothing to the coaches of that program.

Any yes, both incidents happened under the same head coach and the same recruiting coordinator. "Fool me once..."

(BTW, a couple of years ago I was visiting with an Iowa assistant coach in my office. I have a lot of Razorback memorabilia in my office, and he commented about me being a Hog fan. I asked how Herb Grigsby was doing, and he said, "Coach, we just don't understand why Arkansas treated Herb the way the did. He's gonna be a player for us." Now, if an assistant coach is gonna say that to me, do you think they might just use it against us with recruits? Just maybe?)     

[piggly wiggly]

How much of a player is Grigsby at Iowa today?  Seriously, does he start or a solid backup?  I ask 'cause I don't have a clue.  I probably couldn't name three starters at Iowa anyway.

My father-in-law was a former high school coach in Texas (5A assistant and 3A head coach for 12 years). Recruiting is a dirty business.  Feelings get hurt, coaches screw with people (leading them on etc.).  By and large it was always his opinion NOT to get too involved with a kids recruitment, unless asked (Even then advice as to where to sign was never given).  That decision is the boy's and the boy's family.  To call a team meeting after a recruitment issue is not needed.  Situations change year to year, coaches change, team needs change etc.  It's best for a high school coach not to get involved. 

IF it were my son.  The coach definitely would stay out of the decision-making process.  It's simply none of his business. 

[pseudorabies]

I'm just north of Warren. That's EXACTLY what happened.

Que the Godfather theme music.  That was the kiss of death.  Odds are when you say that, the opposite is really what happened.

[CorningHog]

All of us who are loyal to the Razorbacks and have lived and "breathed" this stuff since we were 8 years old or younger can't figure out how these kids leave.  BUT...we were probably never talented enough or big enough, "size" , speed, whatever...to be recruited like they have.

The BIGGEST thing I see that has allowed talented kids to leave Arkansas is the "W" word.  WINNING!  You begin to win titles and go to bigger bowls and get back in the media for at least 3 out of 5 years and you will stay in the upper echelon with the "Top" recruits and they can see that it CAN be done at Arkansas.  Just to go to Arkansas because you are from the state and you "waller" in losing, that would be hard to figure out.  I have to admit that I always felt like I would "never" have left the state if I had been tall enough to play OL for someone.  If I had been, my thought was that I would have been a Hog no matter who called on me to sign with them.  Probably would not take any other visits too. 

However, you sit back and think about the world we live in today, where fast cars, pretty women, quick dollars, fame, wealth, etc... hey, wait a minute that was about like it was in the 80's too! haha..  the deal is that a losing program that seems to not have its ship headed back to deeper water (winning) will certainly lose its appeal even to the homestate boys. 

Luckily we had the "Gus" factor this year and towards the end Alex Wood's personality and experience along with the Springdale kids coming on board that obviously pulled in London Crawford, Ramon Broadway and a few others.

When Arkansas begins to knock heavily on the door of some SEC championships, it won't matter what a Bo Hembree or any other coach feels about Houston Nutt or others.  I am sure there have been recruits that were not totally enamored with the head coach but they loved other assistants and the teammates they would be playing with as well as the chance to win a championship.  Mitch Mustain and Co. that signed on last year will WIN a championship or two before departing Arkansas!

GO HOGS!

[WILL CLINTON]

Guv, I got to give you a +1 just because I feel so sorry for you.  It's almost not fair. 

[SultanofSwine]

Guv, the thing you seem to be missing in this whole deal is the ladder of accountability. You are correct that the assistant and rec. coor. were at fault and responsible. Because they are employees of the HC, he is liable as well. Now to the crux of the problem...THAT WAS NOT A ONE TIME EVENT UNDER THIS HC. You keep saying it was dealt with and it wasn't, the problem ultimately stems from the HC flying blind from a lack of effective planning and communication. If the problem had been dealt with Nutt wouldn't be the HC or atleast if he was he would have a plan of action dictated to him. Are you starting to get the picture here? Houston, your defense sucks why don't you hire Reggie Herring, he's a helluva DC. Houston, your offense sucks, why don't you hire Gus who is extremely well organized and heck of an offensive minded coach. The only question is when will the powers that be dictate to him a REAL recruiting Coordinator because he obviously can't see the forrest for the trees.

[hogsanity]

Recruiting is an ugly UGLY business.  Filled with guys like Logan Young and his ilk.  Coaches are limited to no more than 25 signees per year, yet, to get 25 QUALITY athletes, they have to recruit maybe 100.  Well, you have to string guys along, knowing you can only sing one out of 4.  For many year, after the move to the SEC, many Ar HS players were fallbacks.  Not nearly SEC quality, yet, you feel you have to recruit in staters to keep the coaches happy. 

I have no personal knowledge of the cases mentioned, only what i have read here, yet, it seems HDN may have just gotten tired of the Ar HS coaches playing Ar against other schools, POSSIBLY for personal reasons.  So he snubbed a few kids from east Ar, and now Warren and a couple others are basically off the radar. 

As for D'angelo.  I believed then and i still beleive now, he went to Memphis because they told him he would start from day 1, and he would never have any competiton for his job.  Look at the Rb's they recruited after him, a bunch of nobodies that could not play at A-state. 

[Swino]

I'm just north of Warren. That's EXACTLY what happened.

Que the Godfather theme music.  That was the kiss of death.  Odds are when you say that, the opposite is really what happened.

I live a hell of a lot closer than you Guv and I can tell everyone here that you don't know what you are talking about.

[hogsNbeer]

I need some popcorn, this is getting good....

[hogsanity]

Unless any of you were actually in the room and on the phone when all this went down, you DO NOT know what happened.  You have been told what happened. 

[pseudorabies]

Unless any of you were actually in the room and on the phone when all this went down, you DO NOT know what happened.  You have been told what happened. 

Which is still more than YOU KNOW what happened.   

[hogsanity]

Unless any of you were actually in the room and on the phone when all this went down, you DO NOT know what happened.  You have been told what happened. 

Which is still more than YOU KNOW what happened.  

Did I say I know what happened?  I did say earlier in this thread that all I know of these situations is what I have read here and a few other places. 

[pseudorabies]

Unless any of you were actually in the room and on the phone when all this went down, you DO NOT know what happened.  You have been told what happened. 

Which is still more than YOU KNOW what happened.   

Did I say I know what happened?  I did say earlier in this thread that all I know of these situations is what I have read here and a few other places. 

So my statement is correct.

[Pork Twain]

And Sanity's statement is also correct.  Where you in the room???  If not then it is nothing more than hearsay.

Let's get Guv and Swino to going at it.  Guv cannot help but defend HDN and Swino cannot help but bash him.  Where's that popcorn???

[Richard_white]

I thought this was a fire Dale thread.


Fire HDN

[GuvHog]

How much of a player is Grigsby at Iowa today?  Seriously, does he start or a solid backup?  I ask 'cause I don't have a clue.  I probably couldn't name three starters at Iowa anyway.

My father-in-law was a former high school coach in Texas (5A assistant and 3A head coach for 12 years). Recruiting is a dirty business.  Feelings get hurt, coaches screw with people (leading them on etc.).  By and large it was always his opinion NOT to get too involved with a kids recruitment, unless asked (Even then advice as to where to sign was never given).  That decision is the boy's and the boy's family.  To call a team meeting after a recruitment issue is not needed.  Situations change year to year, coaches change, team needs change etc.  It's best for a high school coach not to get involved. 

IF it were my son.  The coach definitely would stay out of the decision-making process.  It's simply none of his business. 

BINGO! +1 (Thanks Piggly)