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Did JL really offer Petrino a deal?

Started by lakecityhog, September 11, 2017, 09:00:06 pm

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311Hog

Quote from: HotlantaHog on September 13, 2017, 11:00:22 am
I think it's entirely possible to believe Bobby Petrino is a very bad guy who did very bad things -- but that you would be fine with having as a football coach, after slapping him on the wrist... why he is back to coaching again Saturday night on ABC and was coaching again soon after leaving Arkansas.

I agree with what another poster said ... basically I don't care what he does in his private life, and while some of his conduct WAS bad and broke university rules and what you expect from an employee, there could have been a way to keep him with some discipline ....

Conduct that you couldn't forgive would be academic fraud such as what occurred at UGA under its former basketball coach or covering up a serious crime which is what happened at Penn State.

i have said this a thousand times. If Petrino had never brought her into the athletic department he would still be here or at least would not have been fired then.

People love to point to the UOfA as the land grant University and then try and act like it's employees are not all beholden to that standard when they are the head football coach.

He is a state employee just like the Physics Professor, or the Chancellor. If Jessica had gotten a job in the English Department and Petrino had nothing to do with it, he would not have been fired.

THe simple fact is that he participated, facilitated the hiring of his mistress to a competitive position.  It is a HR nightmare not to mention law suits, institutional control etc.

311Hog

Quote from: Razorbax on September 13, 2017, 11:03:31 am
His money and how he spends it, within the letter of law, has zero to do with morality
obviously one of us wrong about this i wonder which one it is ....

 

gchamblee


311Hog

Quote from: Razorbax on September 13, 2017, 11:01:41 am
So your inadequacies are my fault.
hey i am not the idiot that can't figure to simply click "quote".

GuvHog

Quote from: 311Hog on September 13, 2017, 11:04:35 am
i have said this a thousand times. If Petrino had never brought her into the athletic department he would still be here or at least would not have been fired then.

People love to point to the UOfA as the land grant University and then try and act like it's employees are not all beholden to that standard when they are the head football coach.

He is a state employee just like the Physics Professor, or the Chancellor. If Jessica had gotten a job in the English Department and Petrino had nothing to do with it, he would not have been fired.

THe simple fact is that he participated, facilitated the hiring of his mistress to a competitive position.  It is a HR nightmare not to mention law suits, institutional control etc.

There was never a possibility of lawsuits or institutional control problems, that has been proven.

We get it, you believe Long's word is Gospel. It most certainly isn't Gospel.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

Tigaman

Quote from: 311Hog on September 13, 2017, 11:04:35 am
i have said this a thousand times. If Petrino had never brought her into the athletic department he would still be here or at least would not have been fired then.

People love to point to the UOfA as the land grant University and then try and act like it's employees are not all beholden to that standard when they are the head football coach.

He is a state employee just like the Physics Professor, or the Chancellor. If Jessica had gotten a job in the English Department and Petrino had nothing to do with it, he would not have been fired.

THe simple fact is that he participated, facilitated the hiring of his mistress to a competitive position.  It is a HR nightmare not to mention law suits, institutional control etc.

Nepotism is very common at the U of A. While I was there, I knew of 3 sets of husband-wife professors that actively worked with each together. How is that any different?

PorkRinds

Quote from: Tigaman on September 13, 2017, 11:09:53 am
Nepotism is very common at the U of A. While I was there, I knew of 3 sets of husband-wife professors that actively worked with each together. How is that any different?

Did you just ask how hiring your mistress and giving her 20k is differenr than husband and wife professors working together? And you were serious?

311Hog

Quote from: Tigaman on September 13, 2017, 11:09:53 am
Nepotism is very common at the U of A. While I was there, I knew of 3 sets of husband-wife professors that actively worked with each together. How is that any different?

here is how.

Husband and wife

Neither in a position of direct command over one another IE not responsible for each others raises etc.

While Nepotism is common it is disclosed and plans are drawn up in relation to it.

Secret mistresses do not fall under this term.

311Hog

Quote from: GuvHog on September 13, 2017, 11:09:27 am
There was never a possibility of lawsuits or institutional control problems, that has been proven.

We get it, you believe Long's word is Gospel. It most certainly isn't Gospel.


where is the proof?  because i can promise you if i was the person not hired to this position i would be suing.

ricepig

Quote from: Razorbax on September 13, 2017, 11:03:31 am
His money and how he spends it, within the letter of law, has zero to do with morality
True, but it's in the standard UofA contract that you can't supplement the income of any assistant coach, DFO, GA, etc, including anyone involved with the football program, or a representative of our athletic interests.

311Hog

Quote from: PorkRinds on September 13, 2017, 11:11:10 am
Did you just ask how hiring your mistress and giving her 20k is differenr than husband and wife professors working together? And you were serious?

win at all cost attitude lol it exists man.

Tigaman

Quote from: 311Hog on September 13, 2017, 11:13:06 am
here is how.

Husband and wife

Neither in a position of direct command over one another IE not responsible for each others raises etc.

While Nepotism is common it is disclosed and plans are drawn up in relation to it.

Secret mistresses do not fall under this term.

In 2 of the cases one is the department head and the other works directly under them.

Razorbax

I accept your mea culpa. Learn from it......
Quote from: 311Hog on September 13, 2017, 11:05:04 am
obviously one of us wrong about this i wonder which one it is ....

 

311Hog

Quote from: Tigaman on September 13, 2017, 11:15:03 am
In 2 of the cases one is the department head and the other works directly under them.

again disclosed conflict of interest, i can promise you it is known and handled there are entire departments in the University to handling just these type of things.

311Hog


Razorbax

You just can't make this up.....
Quote from: 311Hog on September 13, 2017, 11:14:54 am
win at all cost attitude lol it exists man.

Quote from: 311Hog on September 13, 2017, 10:24:55 am
so because the world is more morally bankrupt we should let it go for the sake of a couple more wins (and not even against teams that matter i mean for Saban sure, but Petrino is no Saban) got it.

Razorbax

Good point, but the premise of his point was the morality clause.
Quote from: ricepig on September 13, 2017, 11:14:02 am
True, but it's in the standard UofA contract that you can't supplement the income of any assistant coach, DFO, GA, etc, including anyone involved with the football program, or a representative of our athletic interests.

311Hog

damn you are White Goodman, "i can't make you bleed your own blood".

Razorbax

I think you inabilty "to simply click "quote"" is the issue
Quote from: 311Hog on September 13, 2017, 11:05:34 am
hey i am not the idiot that can't figure to simply click "quote".

311Hog

Quote from: Razorbax on September 13, 2017, 11:22:53 am
I think you inabilty "to simply click "quote"" is the issue

umm i wasn't/didn't quote you.  I was replying directly to you because i knew you would answer White.

HotlantaHog

Quote from: 311Hog on September 13, 2017, 11:04:35 am
i have said this a thousand times. If Petrino had never brought her into the athletic department he would still be here or at least would not have been fired then.

People love to point to the UOfA as the land grant University and then try and act like it's employees are not all beholden to that standard when they are the head football coach.

He is a state employee just like the Physics Professor, or the Chancellor. If Jessica had gotten a job in the English Department and Petrino had nothing to do with it, he would not have been fired.

THe simple fact is that he participated, facilitated the hiring of his mistress to a competitive position.  It is a HR nightmare not to mention law suits, institutional control etc.

You would have to remove the mistress from her position and pay her a buyout to settle any harm done.

Beyond that you would have to discipline Petrino for making such a boneheaded move. The discipline could be a firing -- but it could also be a suspension, a cut in pay or a cut in buyout, or all of those things.

Bobby and JL didn't agree on the penalty that day so JL announced his firing. If he had instead announced I am indefinitely suspending Petrino as coach, how would that have played out? They meet again at some point in the future and negotiate a deal on the penalties -- and the world weighs in and Petrino realizes he is toxic to bigger programs in the near and intermediate future....

I don't think it's implausible that JL couldn't have negotiated a deal for penalties with Petrino, even as I agree Petrino is a total jerk and did some very bad stuff.

Razorbax

Proof is in the pudding...Where are all the lawsuits?
Quote from: 311Hog on September 13, 2017, 11:13:48 am

where is the proof?  because i can promise you if i was the person not hired to this position i would be suing.

311Hog

Quote from: HotlantaHog on September 13, 2017, 11:24:50 am
You would have to remove the mistress from her position and pay her a buyout to settle any harm done.

Beyond that you would have to discipline Petrino for making such a boneheaded move. The discipline could be a firing -- but it could also be a suspension, a cut in pay or a cut in buyout, or all of those things.

Bobby and JL didn't agree on the penalty that day so JL announced his firing. If he had instead announced I am indefinitely suspending Petrino as coach, how would that have played out? They meet again at some point in the future and negotiate a deal on the penalties -- and the world weighs in and Petrino realizes he is toxic to bigger programs in the near and intermediate future....

I don't think it's implausible that JL couldn't have negotiated a deal for penalties with Petrino, even as I agree Petrino is a total jerk and did some very bad stuff.

I never said it was impossible, i said and still say that him being fired is totally legit and reasonable thing to do given what happened.

I still believe if he wasn't fired for it, that the ship would continue to sink and the breaches would just get worse and worse IE win at all costs.  I mean what would be next ? academic fraud?  player character issues? i mean how can you make RB01 go to class if you can't even keep your HC's D in his pants?

lack of discipline is infectious if the top has it, then the rest is sure to follow.

311Hog

Quote from: Razorbax on September 13, 2017, 11:25:24 am
Proof is in the pudding...Where are all the lawsuits?

read the post above yours White

 

Razorbax

Didn't know the quote and had to look it up. Never saw Dodgeball.
Quote from: 311Hog on September 13, 2017, 11:24:46 am
umm i wasn't/didn't quote you.  I was replying directly to you because i knew you would answer White.

311Hog

Quote from: Razorbax on September 13, 2017, 11:28:29 am
Didn't know the quote and had to look it up. Never saw Dodgeball.
i know you never saw it, you starred in it.

wachhog

Quote from: redneckfriend on September 12, 2017, 09:15:31 pm
I love the experts on this board. Literally "everyone" knew Bobby P. was screwing a girl he recommended for a legitimate position. I mean it was common knowledge- Long knew it, the chancellor knew it, the president knew it-go Bobby! and does she have a sister? So what was the problem for goodness sake? I mean why fire a coach who could beat everyone but Alabama? Did Long just have a death wish or was his attachment to integrity so great that when the whole sordid thing came out he just had to pretend to St. Jeff the pious? If you know Long knew put your money where your mouth is and prove it. If he did know he should have been fired along with Bobby but I think, unless you can prove it, you ought to careful with the libel.
Long's a public figure. The poster doesn't have to prove a darn thing. Long would have to prove the poster knew what he wrote to be false or that he had a knowing disregard for whether it was false. Take a business law class someday. Preferably before you post on that subject again.

Razorbax

You are seriously reaching here. He might have been a dirtbag...Cheated on his wife and was an all-around [CENSORED], but nothing in his past or current history has a hint of cheating on the field. Also, from Louisville to Atlanta to Arkansas, he had a reputation of being a no nonsense, by the books type of guy. Matter of fact, you can directly attribute the collapse of Louisville and Arkansas following his departure as evidence of his by the books approach. 
Quote from: 311Hog on September 13, 2017, 11:27:55 am
I never said it was impossible, i said and still say that him being fired is totally legit and reasonable thing to do given what happened.

I still believe if he wasn't fired for it, that the ship would continue to sink and the breaches would just get worse and worse IE win at all costs.  I mean what would be next ? academic fraud?  player character issues? i mean how can you make RB01 go to class if you can't even keep your HC's D in his pants?

lack of discipline is infectious if the top has it, then the rest is sure to follow.

Razorbax

I starred in it, yet never saw it....Mama jokes next?
Quote from: 311Hog on September 13, 2017, 11:29:17 am
i know you never saw it, you starred in it.

PorkRinds

Quote from: Razorbax on September 13, 2017, 11:35:06 am
You are seriously reaching here. He might have been a dirtbag...Cheated on his wife and was an all-around [CENSORED], but nothing in his past or current history has a hint of cheating on the field. Also, from Louisville to Atlanta to Arkansas, he had a reputation of being a no nonsense, by the books type of guy. Matter of fact, you can directly attribute the collapse of Louisville and Arkansas following his departure as evidence of his by the books approach.

No hint huh?

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/14/sports/football/louisville-wake-forest-announcer-game-plan.html


wachhog

Quote from: 311Hog on September 13, 2017, 11:27:55 am
I never said it was impossible, i said and still say that him being fired is totally legit and reasonable thing to do given what happened.

I still believe if he wasn't fired for it, that the ship would continue to sink and the breaches would just get worse and worse IE win at all costs.  I mean what would be next ? academic fraud?  player character issues? i mean how can you make RB01 go to class if you can't even keep your HC's D in his pants?

lack of discipline is infectious if the top has it, then the rest is sure to follow.
With your last paragraph I totally agree. Weighing an unhealthy amount shows a lack of self discipline.  When the guy at the top lacks self discipline, the rest are sure to follow.

HoggyCat

Quote from: lakecityhog on September 11, 2017, 09:19:54 pm
So did Long basically lie at the press conference?

Which lie at which press conference??
I'm only responsible for what I say, not how you perceive it.

Razorbax

LOL...Are you steering us back to topic?
Quote from: HoggyCat on September 13, 2017, 11:40:36 am
Which lie at which press conference??

PorkRinds


Razorbax

I tend to think sef discipline was not the issue. Rather, it was an over inflated ego inflated by many of us including, now, his harshest critics. This gave him a sense of invincibility and arrogance. Hence his refusal of Long's conditions for further employment.
Quote from: wachhog on September 13, 2017, 11:40:23 am
With your last paragraph I totally agree. Weighing an unhealthy amount shows a lack of self discipline.  When the guy at the top lacks self discipline, the rest are sure to follow.

Razorbax

Sure there is...Throw it and see what sticks. But we know rational people, with an open mind, pay no attention to things that were not proven.I am sure somewhere in your past, you were accused of something not true/unproven. Hopefully, no one argued "hint" with you.
Quote from: PorkRinds on September 13, 2017, 11:43:32 am
It's certainly a hint.

PorkRinds

Quote from: Razorbax on September 13, 2017, 11:52:43 am
Sure there is...Throw it and see what sticks. But we know rational people, with an open mind, pay no attention to things that were not proven.I am sure somewhere in your past, you were accused of something not true/unproven. Hopefully, no one argued "hint" with you.

They admitted it. It's proven. One can't say exactly how BP was involved but there's no denying his team got the opponents playbook. You said there wasn't a hint. Well, there was actually a hint.

311Hog

Quote from: Razorbax on September 13, 2017, 11:47:08 am
I tend to think sef discipline was not the issue. Rather, it was an over inflated ego inflated by many of us including, now, his harshest critics. This gave him a sense of invincibility and arrogance. Hence his refusal of Long's conditions for further employment.


I don't think you understood his reference there White, the guy you quoted was pointing out that Beliema is over weight (shows lack of discipline) and that could trickle down to the team etc. much like a known philander shows a lack of discipline.
I mean you can call it ego i call it 20 large will buy you some options.

Razorbax

I said of cheating. Was it considered cheating? If so, did the conference and NCAA punish or reprimand CBP?
Quote from: PorkRinds on September 13, 2017, 11:54:09 am
They admitted it. It's proven. One can't say exactly how BP was involved but there's no denying his team got the opponents playbook. You said there wasn't a hint. Well, there was actually a hint.

311Hog

Quote from: PorkRinds on September 13, 2017, 11:54:09 am
They admitted it. It's proven. One can't say exactly how BP was involved but there's no denying his team got the opponents playbook. You said there wasn't a hint. Well, there was actually a hint.

just more arguing in the face of facts man.  It proves that to some people a crime/slight/screw job can be overlooked if they can benefit from it in anyway.

So moral of the story you can rob White Goodman, but hey at least be able to have a good offense.

PorkRinds

Quote from: Razorbax on September 13, 2017, 11:56:07 am
I said of cheating. Was it considered cheating? If so, did the conference and NCAA punish or reprimand CBP?

They did not, but you didn't say charged and punished for, you said hint of. Use more precise language next time maybe, because when you claim no hint of cheating, and there is a hint of cheating it can be easily proven that you're wrong.

Razorbax

Noted.....Flew right past the weight remark....Could CBB have "out kicked his coverage" if he was a carpenter or in middle management? 20 large might not have been enough.
Quote from: 311Hog on September 13, 2017, 11:55:15 am

I don't think you understood his reference there White, the guy you quoted was pointing out that Beliema is over weight (shows lack of discipline) and that could trickle down to the team etc. much like a known philander shows a lack of discipline.
I mean you can call it ego i call it 20 large will buy you some options.

HotlantaHog

Quote from: PorkRinds on September 13, 2017, 11:54:09 am
They admitted it. It's proven. One can't say exactly how BP was involved but there's no denying his team got the opponents playbook. You said there wasn't a hint. Well, there was actually a hint.
Stealing a playbook is about the level of offense as the New England Patriots committed ... illegal videotaping or not inflating the balls correctly .... it's like the pitcher who sneaks in some substance .... it is an offense but hardly the end of the world.

Razorbax

Ahh...the game of absolute equivalence. Unfortunately, I only add weight if provable.....In your world, there are hints of Bigfoot, UFOs, Obama being gay, Trump being a Manchurian candidate and the moon landing shot on a movie lot.
Quote from: PorkRinds on September 13, 2017, 11:58:43 am
They did not, but you didn't say charged and punished for, you said hint of. Use more precise language next time maybe, because when you claim no hint of cheating, and there is a hint of cheating it can be easily proven that you're wrong.

PorkRinds

Quote from: Razorbax on September 13, 2017, 12:15:56 pm
Ahh...the game of absolute equivalence. Unfortunately, I only add weight if provable.....In your world, there are hints of Bigfoot, UFOs, Obama being gay, Trump being a Manchurian candidate and the moon landing shot on a movie lot.

In my world, having possession of the opponent's playbook that you acquired by nefarious means is a "hint" at cheating. Maybe not in your world, confused as it may be.

311Hog

Quote from: Razorbax on September 13, 2017, 12:00:12 pm
Noted.....Flew right past the weight remark....Could CBB have "out kicked his coverage" if he was a carpenter or in middle management? 20 large might not have been enough.

I am sure this could apply to Beliema as well but the 20k was in reference to the "gift" Petrino gave to his mistress.  It is no secret some women are drawn to money and power no doubt.  So weight Beliema, paid for "services" Petrino to be clear both of which could be seen by the rank and file as short commings of the leadership and thus why we suck.

Razorbax

We are not arguing who had what and where......Below you state " One can't say exactly how BP was involved"' but you still want to lay it at his feet. Evidently, the NCAA and his conference agreed with your statement on his involvement. Unless you are implying another "hint" of a conspiracy? A coverup by the ACC and NCAA. With the, now low bar on the definition of a "hint" (any accusation regardless of how unprovable), maybe Bigfoot stole it and gave it to the aliens who then, gave it to CBP. Along with all the hints floating in the ether. 
Quote from: PorkRinds on September 13, 2017, 11:54:09 am
They admitted it. It's proven. One can't say exactly how BP was involved but there's no denying his team got the opponents playbook. You said there wasn't a hint. Well, there was actually a hint.
Quote from: PorkRinds on September 13, 2017, 12:18:33 pm
In my world, having possession of the opponent's playbook that you acquired by nefarious means is a "hint" at cheating. Maybe not in your world, confused as it may be.

redneckfriend

Quote from: wachhog on September 13, 2017, 11:33:49 am
Long's a public figure. The poster doesn't have to prove a darn thing. Long would have to prove the poster knew what he wrote to be false or that he had a knowing disregard for whether it was false. Take a business law class someday. Preferably before you post on that subject again.

Lol, I don't need to take a "business law" class (and it isn't a "business law" issue but constitutional law i.e. First Amendment) . I'm well aware of the standard of malice established in Times v. Sullivan to prove libel in court against a public figure (knowledge or reckless lack of investigation). I think the point, if I may be so bold as to help you understand, wasn't to suggest that Long was going to sue the poster for libel and win but that the poster was in fact libeling someone in that he was publishing defamatory statements that he did not know to be true as if they were in fact true. In other words if Long had said similar things about the poster the poster, assuming he doesn't qualify for the Sullivan standard, could have sued Long.

Razorbax

I got what you meant....Hence me saying 20k might not have been enough.
Quote from: 311Hog on September 13, 2017, 12:18:46 pm
I am sure this could apply to Beliema as well but the 20k was in reference to the "gift" Petrino gave to his mistress.  It is no secret some women are drawn to money and power no doubt.  So weight Beliema, paid for "services" Petrino to be clear both of which could be seen by the rank and file as short commings of the leadership and thus why we suck.