What's needed to fix recruiting

[texas tush hog]

Alright damnit. Since nobody else has the balls to address it, I will.

There ain't no freakin way a high caliber, high maintenance, swelled head urban football player outside of the state going to settle down in lilly white Fayetteville Arkansas...UNLESS he is uncommon.

Now call me a liar.

How about this, Johnathan Williams from Allen, Texas, came to lilly white Arkansas, and loved it so much he shunned the NFL, and stayed for four years, probably costing him a few draft slots. That same high school produced Greg Little this year, the number one rated player in the nation, and he goes and plays under the rebel flag in Oxford Mississippi. Explain that to me genius.

[slowride]

I think our coaches do a good job of recruiting for the specific needs that we have.  I think it is more important to know that the cruits fit our system than it is to worry about how many stars they have.  Also, we need to make sure we develop them once we get them.  How many 4 and 5 star players never make it into the nfl because they were never developed?  I would rather have a 2 star cruit with a good work ethic who fits our system than a 5 star prima donna. 

[Hogarusa]

It's not a selling point.  It's just the truth.

The point, however, is that while we have reasons why we struggle to keep up with the Joneses in the SEC, we still compete well with the rest of the nation.  A team like Oregon receives all sorts of praise for winning big in the PAC, but Arkansas would fare just as well if we played in the PAC.  In fact, we had more 4-5 star starters on our 2010 team, then Oregon did for it's 2010 team that played Auburn in the BCS Championship Game.

the problem with the hypothetical is that you are keeping the advantages the Hogs have in SEC recruiting but moving us to the Pac 12.  it doesnt work that way, seems doubtful Hogs would out recruit Nike Oregon.  Tough to sell kids in the South that 4 of your games will be played on the west coast at 9:30 PM CST on FS1.

[UAfanatic]

Nice insight. I did not know about most of this....not surprising though and explains much.

Up to a point,

Having multiple middle schools feed in to a larger highschool delelops a lot more kids with real fundamental playing time
letting the High School have basicall an allstar team.

When I was growing up. our rivals had this and we lost for like 20 years.. this reversed about 15 years ago.. and so did the outcome.

[Snizzzo]

More than Arkansas got from the whole state this year.


    Tyler Wilson (2008)—Football player; starting quarterback for Arkansas Razorbacks; led Greenwood to three consecutive state football titles (2005–07)
    Drew Morgan - Arkansas Razorback Football Player.
    Lucas Miller - Arkansas Razorback Football Player.
    Adam McFain - Arkansas Razorback Football Player.
    Spencer Harris- Illinois Fighting Illini football player.
    Jabe Burgess-Tulsa Golden Hurricane football player.

And it looks like another Morgan is a walk-on this year at the UofA

There are a couple more off the top of my head.  The QB that preceded Tyler Wilson was a Miami commit before deciding on baseball, there was a linemen that went to A State i believe, and another QB between Wilson and Burgess (Hogan) that played Div. I.

[geauxhawgs]

I am so sick of hearing we can't get top recruits because of our location. Do you people ever look at a damn map? Good Lord!! Arkansas (in its entirety) IS IN THE SOUTH EASTERN UNITED STATES. Stop acting like our location and culture is better fit for the BIG 12 and we don't have access to big time recruits. Some of y'all are so damn oblivious.

With that said, Little Rock has always and will always determine overall long term prosperity of the state and the Hogs. Be careful what you ask for removing big time games from The Rock. We need Little Rock, South AR, Memphis, Jonesboro, Northern LA, ect..... WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more for recruiting than we need NWA.

Woo Damn Pig
Screw LSU!!!!

[songofthesword]

Making black kids wear their pants up won't help watch the wire season4

Black men having kids and making ten understand that easing a kid is more then child suport will

[scruf]

Making black kids wear their pants up won't help watch the wire season4

Black men having kids and making ten understand that easing a kid is more then child suport will

Ok, so to summarize:

1) Trust Hollywood to teach me important life lessons

and

2) I have no idea what you are saying here. Can you please explain?

[jkstock04]

Ok, so to summarize:

1) Trust Hollywood to teach me important life lessons

and

2) I have no idea what you are saying here. Can you please explain?

I'm going to guess there were some 4 fingered drinks involved with that one.

[choppedporkextrasauce]

To fix recruiting first a bunch of Razorback fans need to put on their big girl panties and tone down the hissy fits.

[Torqued pork]

To fix recruiting first a bunch of Razorback fans need to put on their big girl panties and tone down the hissy fits.

It doesn't help when the usual suspects get on here and tell the rest of us that some 5* or 4* will be a Hog as if they have inside info the typical poster isn't privy to.

[ricepig]

It doesn't help when the usual suspects get on here and tell the rest of us that some 5* or 4* will be a Hog as if they have inside info the typical poster isn't privy to.

Only if you choose to believe such b.s..

[Torqued pork]

Only if you choose to believe such b.s..

plenty of folks do, unfortunately.

[Pork Twain]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2350958-nick-saban-and-the-inner-workings-of-his-alabama-recruiting-machine

"Nick only hires coaches who have reputations for being good recruiters," said Cignetti. "Every assistant recruits an area, so Nick wants assistants that have relationships with high school coaches in the specific area that he will be in charge of recruiting. Recruiting is information-gathering and sales. Once we get film of the player, the position coach will evaluate it. He then passes his evaluation along to Nick. And then if Nick decides to make an offer, he's very good at giving people attention, which is really what people want. He's good at developing and maintaining relationships.

That does not really say much.  Of course every HC wants guys that are good recruiters, but I would say he hires good coaches first, that are also good recruiters.

[Wildhog]

That does not really say much.  Of course every HC wants guys that are good recruiters, but I would say he hires good coaches first, that are also good recruiters.

The whole point is that Saban puts a heavy emphasis on hiring established recruiters, whereas CBB seemingly does not.  And that's not a knock.  It's just a different approach. 

[MJ2]

I like this idea, however I got bad luck. I saw this 30 for 30 on SMU and death penalty. I just have this feeling if we start really winning they'll find a way to say were cheating, and penalize for something small

Probably, but we would have the trophy and would be rolling in the wins.    It would be SWEEEEEETTTT!

[NaturalStateReb]

I've read countless posts saying we will never get super talent to come to the Hill. I'm asking what is the reason for this. I'm under the impression that the really talented kids (runners, jumpers, hitters), just don't play football. When I was in high school( 1996 Hall High Little Rock), most of the kids were in gangs or just doing drugs. I don't recall really caring at the time, but was it because of after school sports. What's so different about the southern states compared to ours that they can get talent from with-in their state? I don't recall NWA having good talent back then( I could be wrong but hey I was a teenager). Does Little Rock really have a total lack of real talent? What factors are preventing Arkansas from having real strong high school classifications? I'm not trying to be a Negative Nancy or crap on our recruits cause a excited about 3/4 of them, but for the most part, every year we seem to lose out on good recruits. Yes its the best recruits we had a legitimate shot at late, but when the clock strikes midnight......well you get the idea. Sorry for rambling, but it was either vent here or talk to the old lady and well.....she hates how worked u i get over the HOGGS   

Some of the recruiting situation is within Arkansas' control, and other parts aren't.

What's not in Arkansas' control:

*The relatively low number of high D-1 recruits that Arkansas programs produce--when Arkansas HS programs have a fairly large crop of D-1 recruits, Arkansas benefits.  That hasn't happened in a while.
*Geography--the University of Arkansas is where it is. 
*Demographics--the demographics of the state are what they are.
*The league--it's harder than ever.  Everyone's pretty good and everyone's in the mix for at least some group of high prospects.
*Time--kids who are 18 were born in 1998.  Everything past that is pretty ancient history to them.  The Big Shootout happened 30 years before they were born; Arkansas had been out of the SWC for nearly a decade before the stork arrived.

What's in Arkansas' control:

*Going after kids earlier--if you wait until they're juniors, you're already at the back of the line.  Arkansas is going to have to get in on guys earlier.
*Staff turnover--every time a coach leaves, recruiting relationships have to be either reestablished or reinforced.  Arkansas has a lot of turnover.  That puts them at a relative recruiting disadvantage with programs that don't.
*Better recruiters--it's great that the NFL wants Arkansas assistants, but the thing you don't have to do in the NFL is recruit.  In the end, it won't matter how good you are at Xs and Os if you can't consistently get Jimmys and Joes.
*Do better in East Texas--Arkansas just isn't making much headway in East Texas.  They've been averaging about 2 signees per class from Texas.  Arkansas probably needs that number to be something like 4 or 5.  I always wondered why they didn't make more headway in places like Tulsa and Kansas City.

[Wildhog]

Some of the recruiting situation is within Arkansas' control, and other parts aren't.

What's not in Arkansas' control:

*The relatively low number of high D-1 recruits that Arkansas programs produce--when Arkansas HS programs have a fairly large crop of D-1 recruits, Arkansas benefits.  That hasn't happened in a while.
*Geography--the University of Arkansas is where it is. 
*Demographics--the demographics of the state are what they are.
*The league--it's harder than ever.  Everyone's pretty good and everyone's in the mix for at least some group of high prospects.
*Time--kids who are 18 were born in 1998.  Everything past that is pretty ancient history to them.  The Big Shootout happened 30 years before they were born; Arkansas had been out of the SWC for nearly a decade before the stork arrived.

What's in Arkansas' control:

*Going after kids earlier--if you wait until they're juniors, you're already at the back of the line.  Arkansas is going to have to get in on guys earlier.
*Staff turnover--every time a coach leaves, recruiting relationships have to be either reestablished or reinforced.  Arkansas has a lot of turnover.  That puts them at a relative recruiting disadvantage with programs that don't.
*Better recruiters--it's great that the NFL wants Arkansas assistants, but the thing you don't have to do in the NFL is recruit.  In the end, it won't matter how good you are at Xs and Os if you can't consistently get Jimmys and Joes.
*Do better in East Texas--Arkansas just isn't making much headway in East Texas.  They've been averaging about 2 signees per class from Texas.  Arkansas probably needs that number to be something like 4 or 5.  I always wondered why they didn't make more headway in places like Tulsa and Kansas City.

GREAT post.

[hogsanity]

recruiting in total is not an issue, it is specific spots, line backers and corner backs. For whatever reason, long before BB took the job, those two spots have been an issue.

[Wildhog]

recruiting in total is not an issue, it is specific spots, line backers and corner backs. For whatever reason, long before BB took the job, those two spots have been an issue.

And OL. 

And RB.

And S.

[hogsanity]

And OL. 

And RB.

And S.

No, the Hogs have usually had pretty good olines, pretty good to very good rb's, and until recently good safeties.

[HOGGISHABOUTAR]

Here you go:

1. Nothing needs to be "fixed" with recruiting.  Arkansas would have finished 4th in the ACC, 6th in the B1G, 4th in the Pac XII and 5th in the Big XII, but we're in the SEC, so we finished 9th in the conference and 25th in the nation.  We're still one of the better recruiting schools in P5 college football.

2. The talent produced in LR and Central Arkansas is vastly understated among fans.  Likewise, the talent in NWA is vastly overstated by fans.  But part of the problem with LR/NLR is that 4-5 star players like Hill, Dyer and Tenpenny chose to leave the state.

3. The difference with southern states is demographics.  Where ever you have large black populations, you have a great recruiting region.  As a state, Arkansas is better then most, but we have a far smaller black population then most SEC states.  This is also a reason why talent in NWA is overstated, because it has the smallest black population in the state.

4. The biggest problem Arkansas faces recruiting is proximity to these large black populations.  Most other SEC schools are much closer to them then Arkansas.  Most players for all schools come from within a 200-300 mile radius from campus and there's just not that many in that radius for Arkansas.

^^^^^^^Well stated^^^^^^and Big Momma wants her baby boy to stay as close to home as possible most of the time. I do think AR high school coaches need to push harder in their local communities to get kids in camps early and start developing talent earlier.

[HOGGISHABOUTAR]

GREAT post.

Add to this the fact that most of the home grown talent loves what UCA has become in FCS, so there`s that.

[Wildhog]

No, the Hogs have usually had pretty good olines, pretty good to very good rb's, and until recently good safeties.

I'm talking about recruiting under CBB.  OL has been way too low on numbers. RB recruiting has been horrible, save for Partridge getting AC and Richt getting getting fired and Whaley falling into our laps.  And safety recruiting has left a LOT to be desired.  When's the last time we got a big time safety?

[Wildhog]

Add to this the fact that most of the home grown talent loves what UCA has become in FCS, so there`s that.

Surely you aren't suggesting that Arkansas kids would rather go to UCA than the UoA?

[Pork Twain]

The whole point is that Saban puts a heavy emphasis on hiring established recruiters, whereas CBB seemingly does not.  And that's not a knock.  It's just a different approach. 

Interesting...Where did you hear CBB state that?  Be interesting to see the list that shows how CBB and Saban rank the coaches they want to hire.  i am sure you can dig those up.

[Wildhog]

Interesting...Where did you here CBB state that?  Be interesting to see the list that shows how CBB and Saban rank the coaches they want to hire.  i am sure you can dig those up.

I said "seemingly," and I didn't have to "here" anything.  He proves it with his hires.

[870hogfan]

I'm talking about recruiting under CBB.  OL has been way too low on numbers. RB recruiting has been horrible, save for Partridge getting AC and Richt getting getting fired and Whaley falling into our laps.  And safety recruiting has left a LOT to be desired.  When's the last time we got a big time safety?

Raleigh Williams doesn't count?

[Wildhog]

Raleigh Williams doesn't count?

Doesn't count for what?  I like Rawleigh ok, but he was barely recruited by anyone.

[870hogfan]

Doesn't count for what?  I like Rawleigh ok, but he was barely recruited by anyone.

Awesome.

[ricepig]

Some of the recruiting situation is within Arkansas' control, and other parts aren't.

What's not in Arkansas' control:

*The relatively low number of high D-1 recruits that Arkansas programs produce--when Arkansas HS programs have a fairly large crop of D-1 recruits, Arkansas benefits.  That hasn't happened in a while.
*Geography--the University of Arkansas is where it is. 
*Demographics--the demographics of the state are what they are.
*The league--it's harder than ever.  Everyone's pretty good and everyone's in the mix for at least some group of high prospects.
*Time--kids who are 18 were born in 1998.  Everything past that is pretty ancient history to them.  The Big Shootout happened 30 years before they were born; Arkansas had been out of the SWC for nearly a decade before the stork arrived.

What's in Arkansas' control:

*Going after kids earlier--if you wait until they're juniors, you're already at the back of the line.  Arkansas is going to have to get in on guys earlier.
*Staff turnover--every time a coach leaves, recruiting relationships have to be either reestablished or reinforced.  Arkansas has a lot of turnover.  That puts them at a relative recruiting disadvantage with programs that don't.
*Better recruiters--it's great that the NFL wants Arkansas assistants, but the thing you don't have to do in the NFL is recruit.  In the end, it won't matter how good you are at Xs and Os if you can't consistently get Jimmys and Joes.
*Do better in East Texas--Arkansas just isn't making much headway in East Texas.  They've been averaging about 2 signees per class from Texas.  Arkansas probably needs that number to be something like 4 or 5.  I always wondered why they didn't make more headway in places like Tulsa and Kansas City.

Or, we could just offer more money than our competitors.   

[NaturalStateReb]

Add to this the fact that most of the home grown talent loves what UCA has become in FCS, so there`s that.

I don't think that UCA and Arkansas are going after the same kids.  Arkansas State has done a good job of planting its flag in East Arkansas, but again, it's unusual for ASU and Arkansas to really be seriously going head-to-head over the same kids.  For the most part, Arkansas recruiting doesn't really overlap with UCA or ASU.

[NaturalStateReb]

Or, we could just offer more money than our competitors.   

Strippers and cash, baby. 

[choppedporkextrasauce]

putting the airport in the middle of a cow pasture did not help. With no direct way out. That drive back to the highway, has deliverance written all over it.
it is the first the first impression, and the last impression

so tell us Kevin, where do you build a new airport? In town? Across the street from the neighbors?

My God the stupidity.

[ricepig]

so tell us Kevin, where do you build a new airport? In town? Across the street from the neighbors?

My God the stupidity.

You can't fit one in a 1/4 mile block??

[choppedporkextrasauce]

You can't fit one in a 1/4 mile block??

yeah maybe between the hills, Put one in front of Gregson Hall.

[code red]

Win....period.

[Grizzlyfan]

I don't think that UCA and Arkansas are going after the same kids.  Arkansas State has done a good job of planting its flag in East Arkansas, but again, it's unusual for ASU and Arkansas to really be seriously going head-to-head over the same kids.  For the most part, Arkansas recruiting doesn't really overlap with UCA or ASU.

Yes. If Arkansas is competing with ASU or UCA for players they aren't recruiting to win the SEC.

[Pork Twain]

He proves it with his hires.

Does he

[bphi11ips]

You can't fit one in a 1/4 mile block??

The location of the airport was chosen for business reasons having nothing to do with the university.  For an area known for it's beauty, a first timer has to wonder what the fuss is about for the first 20 minutes or so.  I thought this the first time I flew in with friends on a trip to the Buffalo headwaters.  All they'd heard from me was how gorgeous the scenery would be, but it took a while to get to it.

The bigger problem with the airport underscores the primary challenge for Razorbacks recruiters - location.  There are few direct flights into XNA, and flights in general tend to be comparatively expensive and inconvenient.  It usually takes about as long to fly to Fayetteville, portal-to-portal, from Nashville as it does to drive.  You just can't get there from here.  That's true of smaller SEC towns as well, but Fayetteville is an outlier when it comes to major metropolitan areas and the heart of SEC recruiting territory.

That's just the way it is. 

[Snizzzo]

And OL. 

And RB.

And S.

Is this guy serious?  We have had the most talented Olines in Arkansas history since CBB got here, AC3 and Devwah W. are the most talented RBs ever signed by us from outside the state, and we gave some young Safeties that have the potential to be a little better than what he inherited.   

[NaturalStateReb]

The location of the airport was chosen for business reasons having nothing to do with the university.  For an area known for it's beauty, a first timer has to wonder what the fuss is about for the first 20 minutes or so.  I thought this the first time I flew in with friends on a trip to the Buffalo headwaters.  All they'd heard from me was how gorgeous the scenery would be, but it took a while to get to it.

The bigger problem with the airport underscores the primary challenge for Razorbacks recruiters - location.  There are few direct flights into XNA, and flights in general tend to be comparatively expensive and inconvenient.  It usually takes about as long to fly to Fayetteville, portal-to-portal, from Nashville as it does to drive.  You just can't get there from here.  That's true of smaller SEC towns as well, but Fayetteville is an outlier when it comes to major metropolitan areas and the heart of SEC recruiting territory.

That's just the way it is. 

I would actually submit that Fayetteville has at worst a wash with regard to the airport and potentially a recruiting advantage.  Several SEC schools don't have commercial service.  Of the ones that do, Fayetteville is fairly comparable to most outside of Vanderbilt with the Nashville airport.

Airport siting has many factors, but you figure that land availability and topographical suitability had to be two major factors in siting XNA. 

[PorkRinds]

Is this guy serious?  We have had the most talented Olines in Arkansas history since CBB got here, AC3 and Devwah W. are the most talented RBs ever signed by us from outside the state, and we gave some young Safeties that have the potential to be a little better than what he inherited.

He's very serious, and very correct.  We've had decent OL since he's been here, but the numbers are downright scary.  Same for RB.  Pittman dropped the ball numbers wise.  And our RB coaches haven't really scored big in recruiting.

[hogsanity]

He's very serious, and very correct.  We've had decent OL since he's been here, but the numbers are downright scary.  Same for RB.  Pittman dropped the ball numbers wise.  And our RB coaches haven't really scored big in recruiting.

I think they are signing better quality in each class top to bottom. The numbers may not be what some think they need, even what they think they need, but the quality is better at just about every spot. LB remains to be seen how the new signees help that over the next yr or 2.