What's needed to fix recruiting

[ricepig]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2350958-nick-saban-and-the-inner-workings-of-his-alabama-recruiting-machine

"Nick only hires coaches who have reputations for being good recruiters," said Cignetti. "Every assistant recruits an area, so Nick wants assistants that have relationships with high school coaches in the specific area that he will be in charge of recruiting. Recruiting is information-gathering and sales. Once we get film of the player, the position coach will evaluate it. He then passes his evaluation along to Nick. And then if Nick decides to make an offer, he's very good at giving people attention, which is really what people want. He's good at developing and maintaining relationships.

Sounds like we need to hire Nick!

[ricepig]

Stopped reading here. I can assure you, they're very real. And many of the best ones are in our division.

Is it the school, the location, or the recruiter?

[Wildhog]

Is it the school, the location, or the recruiter?

Well, Nick Saban seems to believe that it's the recruiter.  I can't really argue with him.

[ricepig]

Well, Nick Saban seems to believe that it's the recruiter.  I can't really argue with him.

Yeah, since he already has the school and location, makes sense......

[Wildhog]

Yeah, since he already has the school and location, makes sense......

I thought I'd made it clear that he won't hire someone that wasn't an established recruiter BEFORE they got to Bama? At this point, you're just being obtuse.

[ricepig]

I thought I'd made it clear that he won't hire someone that wasn't an established recruiter BEFORE they got to Bama? At this point, you're just being obtuse.

Fine and dandy, and I thought I made the point that we aren't Bama, and Bielema isn't Saban.

[Wildhog]

Fine and dandy, and I thought I made the point that we aren't Bama, and Bielema isn't Saban.

Haha, ok.  I guess we're done here.

Enjoyed the discussion.

[ricepig]

Haha, ok.  I guess we're done here.

Enjoyed the discussion.

Would I like some stud recruiters, sure, but I'm not putting the staff together, or know the intricacies of one.

[whosiskid]

Recruiting isn't as bad as some claim.

A little bit of luck - and I mean a little bit - and we could had a top 15 program. We came really close on a lot of major targets.

[HiggiePiggy]

I think we have been close for a couple of decades now.  Good to know that we are still close. 

[kp72204]

"I'm asking what is the reason for this."

The NEA.

I'm not trying to be rude or offensive. Just would imagine the biggest city would provide the most talent. I understand the diamonds in the rough, but with the most people (Little Rock is not really big by no means) we should have more talent from there.

[kp72204]

Here you go:

1. Nothing needs to be "fixed" with recruiting.  Arkansas would have finished 4th in the ACC, 6th in the B1G, 4th in the Pac XII and 5th in the Big XII, but we're in the SEC, so we finished 9th in the conference and 25th in the nation.  We're still one of the better recruiting schools in P5 college football.

2. The talent produced in LR and Central Arkansas is vastly understated among fans.  Likewise, the talent in NWA is vastly overstated by fans.  But part of the problem with LR/NLR is that 4-5 star players like Hill, Dyer and Tenpenny chose to leave the state.


3. The difference with southern states is demographics.  Where ever you have large black populations, you have a great recruiting region.  As a state, Arkansas is better then most, but we have a far smaller black population then most SEC states.  This is also a reason why talent in NWA is overstated, because it has the smallest black population in the state.

4. The biggest problem Arkansas faces recruiting is proximity to these large black populations.  Most other SEC schools are much closer to them then Arkansas.  Most players for all schools come from within a 200-300 mile radius from campus and there's just not that many in that radius for Arkansas.

Thank You!!! That was a real thought out response. What's the difference with us and say Ole Miss? I understand the $$$ thing, but aren't they typically in the same boat? They've never been relevant before and they really have yet to win anything.

[kp72204]

As a student at the U of A, I was a member of the drumline and I had the opportunity to travel to almost every campus and college town in the SEC.  I don't think ANY of them were BETTER than Northwest Arkansas, as far as a town with a college atmosphere that attracts recruits.  Ever been to Oxford, MS?  What's there that would attract recruits MORE than NWA?  Nothing, in my opinion.  The same would go for every other college town that I visited within the SEC. 

I believe the issue about our university is the national perception of the state of Arkansas.  I relocated to the Atlanta, GA area last year.  As you all probably know, the greater Atlanta area is a hotbed for talented football players.  Most of the people I have encountered in Atlanta don't perceive Arkansas to be a major player in the SEC.  I don't want to bash anyone, but the extended periods of mediocrity we endured under Houston Nutt seem to have really damaged the perception of the Razorbacks, even though we've had some success against some of the teams people actually do consider to be powerhouses in the SEC.  Also, considering our recent history with John L. Smith, and our records under CBB, it's no wonder that kids view Arkansas as an afterthought.  I just think it is going to take an extended period of time of winning 9-10+ games per year, with the occasional trip to the College Football Playoff in order to change perception of the U of A. 

Now, I'm going to contradict myself a little bit.  I live down the street from Archer High School in Lawrenceville, GA.  That school is a powerhouse for football and they have a few players who just signed with SEC schools.  One of the most popular SEC schools, according to kids in this area is....Ole Miss.  Despite the mediocrity of Ole Miss athletics over the years, somehow, that university has found grace with the people in one of the great football hotbeds in the south.  How have they done it?  I'm not sure (though I believe illegal benefits are involved).  But, somehow, the U of A has to find grace in football hotbeds of the south.

I'm curious about the period of winning 9+ games. Cause I don't remember huge spike in recruiting when Petrino was doing his thing. Also, I remember the SEC championship when Fish fumbled, and really same results.

[kp72204]

If we continue beating ole miss and LSU 2 outta 3 years and ever figure out a Bamma win that would continue to build the bridges we need into the Georgia, Alabama, LSU talent pool. We get over the hump of the a&m whoas(which I believe start this coming year) and continue playing 2 Texas schools every year, our bridge into Texas will get stronger. The addition of Enos and especially Anderson will have the Midwest guys looking. And like the poster earlier said winning is the key. This coaching staff will get the cruits looking here. The play on the field and the wins will get them here. Especially the ones looking for a family atmosphere away from their family. We have improved every year under Bielema. He is the man of the hour. He is building something special here. Your dream home isn't build over night. It takes time. But once you see the foundation in place and that frame go up you start visioning the finished product. That foundation is down and that frame is staring us in the face...

I agree with your assessment, however, what i'm afraid of is Enos. He he really puts it down this year, how long till he's HC over at (dare i say LSWhooo)?

[kp72204]

Shear numbers is one aspect.
Population:

Alabama      4,779,736
Arkansas      2,915,918
Florida      18,801,310
Georgia      9,687,653
Kentucky      4,339,367
Louisiana      4,533,372
Mississippi   2,967,297
Missouri      5,988,927
South Carolina   4,625,384
Texas      25,145,561
Tennessee   6,346,105

Winning fights against these numbers.. but basically the number of kids playing football is partially attributed to this.
But, to your point, in Little Rock, the High school game is not what it used to be. the money put in to it and the
importance to the schools is low.
The culture of football 'friday night lights' is not as great in parts of Arkansas as it is in other states still.

I blame part of this to the lack of jobs and college graduate exodus to other states, not allowing a competitive local tax base and
donations to local sports.

fighting this trend, NW arkansas, shows this goes hand in hand with local high school pride.

So basically, fight to have more large business be brought to Arkansas in a better concerted effort.

I had no idea the population difference between us and a few (outside of Miss.). I do remember they wanted to put a Nissan factory in FT Smith quite a few years back, but it got voted down if I remember correctly.

[Fan1958]

The problem, and I will tread very lightly here, is the state's largest school district, within the state's largest population center, with the largest demographic from which most college football players are produced, is broken beyond repair.  J.A. Fair, home of Cedric Cobbs, hasn't had a winning season since Cobbs and Fa'Quan Harris won the state championship in the late 90's.  McClellan, Hall, and Parkview are vast wastelands as far as football goes. Central has done nothing since beating Mitch Mus-stain and Springdale in the mid-2000s.

Central, with an enrollment in excess of 2,500, has averaged around 60 or so players for many years, one year recently having only around 50 on the roster.  Catholic High has around 80 on the roster with about 25% of the enrollment.

North Little Rock, with one high school in a city of over 66,000, has produced 3 notable recent signees.  One has been hurt, one signed elsewhere and transferred from his original school and unfortunately passed away and the jury is still out on the third.


The LRSD has about 7,000 students among the 5 high schools in the district and football participation among those 5 schools is around 300 total.  Think about that.  Assuming the gender ratio is 50-50 (it's not as males tend to have a higher dropout rate), then approximately 8.6 of the males in the LRSD are involved in football.  Seems to me I recall Fair considering forfeits not long ago due to the extremely low numbers.

A local "activist" and his merry band have pillaged the LRSD in the name of desegregation and made a handsome profit all at the cost of the students.

No in-school athletic period (all tied to the action of the said "activist") means kid who are bused from the east side of Little Rock to PV or Hall and have no way back home other that to ride the bus can't stay after school to practice. 

Forget about Central Arkansas (Pulaski County) other than the few PA and other private schools will occasionally produce. The Pulaski county schools produce better than the LRSD.

[kp72204]

Fix This:

http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=Highschool&State=AR

http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=Highschool&State=LA

Point well taken.

[Pig In The City]

Win

[kp72204]

If we are talking about recruiting instate talent (or lack thereof), one needs to evaluate the education system in the state of Arkansas.  What is the bussing situation?  Do kids go to school where they live?  Is their only way home leaving school at 3:30?

Serious questions...

See.....I remember reading a quote about busing kids to different schools just to end segregation or racist ways of the time. Cost o busin to far out locations became costly.

[kp72204]

I have said this since before I joined here over a decade ago. Draw a 300 mile circle around Fayetteville and count the number of players who sign with power 5 schools from within that circle. Now do the same for every other sec school. You see the problem, it is population and demographics.

And. the talent the state does produce tends to be similar every year. Rb's, Wr's, te's, ol, and one or 2 dl players. Very very few sec type lb's or cb's. Which, when you look at it, are the spots really holding our defense back.

But it has been more of the lack of talent depth in the state. In a state like Texas or LA or FLa  they can get their DEPTh by getting all the 3 stars out of their own state they want. The 9th or 19th rated player at a position in Bama HS ball is still a pretty good player. The 9th or 10th rated player at a position in AR is usually not being recruited by anyone, at any level.

Sorry. I'm just curious what people think and if it's fixable. I like thinking money could fix this. In other words if I hit the mega Lotto #, I could donate 5 million to each LR public high school football program and try to get some king of business going in a remote city that would bring jobs and more people.

[kp72204]

Every year on signing day we point to other SEC teams and say "they're cheating"...   I propose we spent $1M per year to hire a Chancellor of NCAA Rule Circumvention and immediately make it his responsibility to see to it that the coaches are provided every angle possible to navigate around any and all rules and regulations necessary to build a championship team.   Give him a $10M per year budget to build his organization and coordinate payments, vehicles, clothes, women, etc to get the team to the final 4 playoff every year and win it 1 out of 3 years.    The earnings from a NC would cover way more than the $11M investment.

I like this idea, however I got bad luck. I saw this 30 for 30 on SMU and death penalty. I just have this feeling if we start really winning they'll find a way to say were cheating, and penalize for something small

[Hogarusa]

Here you go:

1. Nothing needs to be "fixed" with recruiting.  Arkansas would have finished 4th in the ACC, 6th in the B1G, 4th in the Pac XII and 5th in the Big XII, but we're in the SEC, so we finished 9th in the conference and 25th in the nation.  We're still one of the better recruiting schools in P5 college football.

i've seen others use this case but i fail to realize how this is a selling point.  Our opponents reside in the SEC and 2 of our future non conference foes (TCU/Michigan) ranked higher this year.   We have nobody on our schedule anytime soon from the ACC and Pac 10. Hogs have to become top 5 in the SEC.

[kp72204]

the NSD this year was certainly sad, with us losing many at the last minute. But truth is, we are in the process of fixing recruiting. We got some great players, we just got them early, so we took them for granted. Had we not known of Whaley, Agim, Hammonds, et. al., we would have been turning back flips.  If one looks at our overall player ratings numbers for the last five years in terms of 3-5 stars, the improvement is obvious. We had a good year and came closer than many realize to have a true banner year. I am also confident they will yet find some late players, like they have in the past, to round things out.

Our recruiting is improving and we are building more depth, it is just slower and more difficult than many are willing to accept. And the entire culture throughout the state also needs to change. When CBB proclaimed he did not come to play the Tide but rather to beat them, he set a high bar. Well, if you do not set the bar high you never are able to jump over that height. We are getting there, it just takes time especially when one remembers just how far into the pit our program had fallen for many reasons. As noted in another post, local towns also need to do their thing. But If we keep CBB we will get there.

When you say we fallen ( a lot of people have said that), how far back are we talking? Cause we have posters here that remember the REAL glory days of the 60's and 70's. The best I remember is a few SEC Championship appearances and the Petrino years that I could brag about. Also, the week we were ranked #3 was a great week for bragging on deployment.

[kp72204]

Same reason Nebraska is struggling to regain the prior success.

My thought exactly, however, they have better history and they can't rebound. Our program has a cotton bowl victory that we celebrate recently. I believe were building something and its exciting because I don't know how high we can climb.Recent history says 9-10 wins and a huge turnover of staff happens next once we hit our stride.

[kp72204]

You can't fix geography and demographics. For all practical purposes the University of Arkansas is not even in the SEC footprint nor does it share the wealth of talent.

To recruit as well as we do on a national level is honestly quite impressive. But when compared to the SEC its like admiring your newly constructed $650k home sitting among those selling for $2 million and up. Welcome to feeling like the poorest rich dude on the block.

Story of my life! I think this is the best way to look at it.

[redeye]

Recruiting isn't as bad as some claim.

A little bit of luck - and I mean a little bit - and we could had a top 15 program. We came really close on a lot of major targets.

This is true and it actually surprises me how close we came.  A couple of days before NSD, I used the 247 Class Calculator to see where we'd sit if we added Cleveland and Fulton (I may have added Porter, too, but can't remember).  Had we added them at that time, we would have ranked inside the top-10, surprisingly, because recruits of that value make such a huge difference in the 247 algorithm (note that Porter would have made a far less difference then Cleveland and Fulton).  We probably would have fallen in the 10-15 range on NSD, but that would have been higher then we've ever finished.

[redeye]

Thank You!!! That was a real thought out response. What's the difference with us and say Ole Miss? I understand the $$$ thing, but aren't they typically in the same boat? They've never been relevant before and they really have yet to win anything.

$$$ aside, Ole Miss is closer to large black populations.  Mississippi is about the same size as Arkansas, but has twice as many black people (yes, they also have 2 schools competing for them).  Plus, they're much closer to great recruits in Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, Memphis, Florida and most everywhere else you find SEC talent.

Ole Miss also has great recruiters, but I'm not sure they're any better then ours, because I really don't know.

[redeye]

i've seen others use this case but i fail to realize how this is a selling point.  Our opponents reside in the SEC and 2 of our future non conference foes (TCU/Michigan) ranked higher this year.   We have nobody on our schedule anytime soon from the ACC and Pac 10. Hogs have to become top 5 in the SEC.

It's not a selling point.  It's just the truth.

The point, however, is that while we have reasons why we struggle to keep up with the Joneses in the SEC, we still compete well with the rest of the nation.  A team like Oregon receives all sorts of praise for winning big in the PAC, but Arkansas would fare just as well if we played in the PAC.  In fact, we had more 4-5 star starters on our 2010 team, then Oregon did for it's 2010 team that played Auburn in the BCS Championship Game.

[HiggiePiggy]

Same reason Nebraska is struggling to regain the prior success.

Actually Nebraska has been successful as far as what we would consider as success here.  They have won 9 or more games every year since 2008 until this year which was 6-7. 

They haven't been anything like what they were with Tom Osborne, but that's pretty hard to get someone like that.   Heck Alabama took sometime before they landed Saban.  There are some good coaches out there.  There are very few great coaches in the league right now and they are already set at big time programs. 

[kp72204]

While we're at it then let's certainly not overlook the real "blood sucker" that has played the part of Dracula for the past 10+ plus years and helped continue "stirring the pot" when it comes to stability in the LRSD. That would be the Johnny Cockrill (sp) "wanna be" also known as one John Walker. Heck, the guy has used the district as his own piggy back and check book; he's go the talent to suck juice out of a tried up prune or raisin and still want more, more, more......

I had to look into this. Good insight. Things have changed for me since then. I no longer share some of the views I once did. This could be the problem in our state. I'll keep my opinion to myself.

[kp72204]

Actually Nebraska has been successful as far as what we would consider as success here.  They have won 9 or more games every year since 2008 until this year which was 6-7. 

They haven't been anything like what they were with Tom Osborne, but that's pretty hard to get someone like that.   Heck Alabama took sometime before they landed Saban.  There are some good coaches out there.  There are very few great coaches in the league right now and they are already set at big time programs.

And they always jump ship to a big time program.

[Fan1958]

I had to look into this. Good insight. Things have changed for me since then. I no longer share some of the views I once did. This could be the problem in our state. I'll keep my opinion to myself.

Been going on since the 1980s. Desegregation lawsuit filed by Walker and everything went to hell. A federal judge even tried to stop the widening of I-30 to six lanes between LR and Benton for fear of "white flight" (caused PA to become a power and saw the rise of LRCA, Arkansas Baptist and Episcopal). LRSD de-emphasized athletics in the mid 80s.  Gang warfare exploded over the next few years and reached its peak in the early 90s. Homicide rate of nearly 70 a year. LRSD athletics (football at least) has never recovered.

[Fan1958]

Shear numbers is one aspect.
Population:

Alabama      4,779,736
Arkansas      2,915,918
Florida      18,801,310
Georgia      9,687,653
Kentucky      4,339,367
Louisiana      4,533,372
Mississippi   2,967,297
Missouri      5,988,927
South Carolina   4,625,384
Texas      25,145,561
Tennessee   6,346,105

Winning fights against these numbers.. but basically the number of kids playing football is partially attributed to this.
But, to your point, in Little Rock, the High school game is not what it used to be. the money put in to it and the
importance to the schools is low.
The culture of football 'friday night lights' is not as great in parts of Arkansas as it is in other states still.

I blame part of this to the lack of jobs and college graduate exodus to other states, not allowing a competitive local tax base and
donations to local sports.

fighting this trend, NW arkansas, shows this goes hand in hand with local high school pride.

So basically, fight to have more large business be brought to Arkansas in a better concerted effort.

[Fan1958]

You are correct, but it is more than just raw population.  Take a look at this:

     State                   # of School Districts          # of Students enrolled in Grades 9-12 (District Average)
     Alabama                            132                                          1641
     Arkansas                            239                                           589
     Florida                                 95                                          8553
     Georgia                              180                                          2786
     Louisiana                              70                                         2720
     Mississippi                           160                                           871
     Tennessee                           136                                         2100

I could not find the data for the actual number of high schools in each district, but this points to the problem in Arkansas.  Too many school districts, and low numbers of students in grades 9-12.  Larger high schools with larger enrollments develop more Division 1 football players.  They play against higher quality competition.

There are too many small schools in Arkansas to really develop talent.

In Arkansas there are 1,102 schools spread across 288 districts with a total enrollment of 486,000.  In Mississippi there are 1,063 schools spread across 162 districts with an enrollment of 493,000. Louisiana has 1,407 schools in 131 districts with enrollment of 710,000.

If Arkansas was to consolidate these smaller districts in the rural counties, especially East Arkansas, there would be better talent development and more kids given the opportunity to play football.  Out of the 288 districts in Arkansas there are approximately 70, nearly 25%, that don't play football.  That means approximately 50,000 boys never have the opportunity to play the game.

It is doable but with the impatience in today's microwave world I don't see it happening unless Jeff Long, who I believe has the vision and patience to make it happen, is left alone to let BB develop the program in his image and develop the identity everybody seems to want but don't have the patience to allow it to mature.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Alright damnit. Since nobody else has the balls to address it, I will.

There ain't no freakin way a high caliber, high maintenance, swelled head urban football player outside of the state going to settle down in lilly white Fayetteville Arkansas...UNLESS he is uncommon.

Now call me a liar.

[jkstock04]

The problem, and I will tread very lightly here, is the state's largest school district, within the state's largest population center, with the largest demographic from which most college football players are produced, is broken beyond repair.  J.A. Fair, home of Cedric Cobbs, hasn't had a winning season since Cobbs and Fa'Quan Harris won the state championship in the late 90's.  McClellan, Hall, and Parkview are vast wastelands as far as football goes. Central has done nothing since beating Mitch Mus-stain and Springdale in the mid-2000s.

Central, with an enrollment in excess of 2,500, has averaged around 60 or so players for many years, one year recently having only around 50 on the roster.  Catholic High has around 80 on the roster with about 25% of the enrollment.

North Little Rock, with one high school in a city of over 66,000, has produced 3 notable recent signees.  One has been hurt, one signed elsewhere and transferred from his original school and unfortunately passed away and the jury is still out on the third.


The LRSD has about 7,000 students among the 5 high schools in the district and football participation among those 5 schools is around 300 total.  Think about that.  Assuming the gender ratio is 50-50 (it's not as males tend to have a higher dropout rate), then approximately 8.6 of the males in the LRSD are involved in football.  Seems to me I recall Fair considering forfeits not long ago due to the extremely low numbers.

A local "activist" and his merry band have pillaged the LRSD in the name of desegregation and made a handsome profit all at the cost of the students.

No in-school athletic period (all tied to the action of the said "activist") means kid who are bused from the east side of Little Rock to PV or Hall and have no way back home other that to ride the bus can't stay after school to practice. 

Forget about Central Arkansas (Pulaski County) other than the few PA and other private schools will occasionally produce. The Pulaski county schools produce better than the LRSD.

Nice insight. I did not know about most of this....not surprising though and explains much.

[kp72204]

Alright damnit. Since nobody else has the balls to address it, I will.

There ain't no freakin way a high caliber, high maintenance, swelled head urban football player outside of the state going to settle down in lilly white Fayetteville Arkansas...UNLESS he is uncommon.

Now call me a liar.

Tou Che

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

Duct Tape and Bailing Wire?

[Kevin]

putting the airport in the middle of a cow pasture did not help. With no direct way out. That drive back to the highway, has deliverance written all over it.
it is the first the first impression, and the last impression

[LZH]

We don't have the money Bama does, fact. Now, if some of these "fans" of ours would buy tickets, donate to the RF, maybe we could hire some more "analysts".

Maybe cutting off a third of the state wasn't such a great idea after all. Better start squeezing NWA a lot harder. (Jab.....jab.....Bang!)

Unless there is a miracle renaissance in Arkansas high school athletics, especially in the Little Rock metro area, we are always going to be at a huge disadvantage. And it will probably get worse. When I look around at the schools down here, it is sadly comical how far behind Arkansas education and athletics really are.......truly in the dark ages.

[LZH]

"stud" recruiters are a figment of your imagination. we have some dang good recruiters. some of the best. do they get elite talent to sign with Arkansas? no. but who can? we have 1 championship to our name and 1 loss in a BCS bowl. we havent shown recruits we are a championship program just yet.

Ole Miss doesn't even have that, and look at what HF is doing. Yeah, I know. But until he and his bunch are found guilty of anything, they are making it happen with less resources than we have.

I love being Mr Realistic.

[LZH]

The problem, and I will tread very lightly here, is the state's largest school district, within the state's largest population center, with the largest demographic from which most college football players are produced, is broken beyond repair.  J.A. Fair, home of Cedric Cobbs, hasn't had a winning season since Cobbs and Fa'Quan Harris won the state championship in the late 90's.  McClellan, Hall, and Parkview are vast wastelands as far as football goes. Central has done nothing since beating Mitch Mus-stain and Springdale in the mid-2000s.

Central, with an enrollment in excess of 2,500, has averaged around 60 or so players for many years, one year recently having only around 50 on the roster.  Catholic High has around 80 on the roster with about 25% of the enrollment.

North Little Rock, with one high school in a city of over 66,000, has produced 3 notable recent signees.  One has been hurt, one signed elsewhere and transferred from his original school and unfortunately passed away and the jury is still out on the third.


The LRSD has about 7,000 students among the 5 high schools in the district and football participation among those 5 schools is around 300 total.  Think about that.  Assuming the gender ratio is 50-50 (it's not as males tend to have a higher dropout rate), then approximately 8.6 of the males in the LRSD are involved in football.  Seems to me I recall Fair considering forfeits not long ago due to the extremely low numbers.

A local "activist" and his merry band have pillaged the LRSD in the name of desegregation and made a handsome profit all at the cost of the students.

No in-school athletic period (all tied to the action of the said "activist") means kid who are bused from the east side of Little Rock to PV or Hall and have no way back home other that to ride the bus can't stay after school to practice. 

Forget about Central Arkansas (Pulaski County) other than the few PA and other private schools will occasionally produce. The Pulaski county schools produce better than the LRSD.

Damn fine post.

[LZH]

Been going on since the 1980s. Desegregation lawsuit filed by Walker and everything went to hell. A federal judge even tried to stop the widening of I-30 to six lanes between LR and Benton for fear of "white flight" (caused PA to become a power and saw the rise of LRCA, Arkansas Baptist and Episcopal). LRSD de-emphasized athletics in the mid 80s.  Gang warfare exploded over the next few years and reached its peak in the early 90s. Homicide rate of nearly 70 a year. LRSD athletics (football at least) has never recovered.

Ridiculous s*** like this is the very reason, along with instances such as the poster above mentioning the Nissan plant being voted down in Fort Smith, is why Arkansas has been on a treadmill for decades when other Southern states have moved into the 21st century. Anyone remember the FedEx fiasco in Little Rock back in the 1980s?

And we wonder why they call us backwards? Pisses me off.

[LZH]

There are too many small schools in Arkansas to really develop talent.

In Arkansas there are 1,102 schools spread across 288 districts with a total enrollment of 486,000.  In Mississippi there are 1,063 schools spread across 162 districts with an enrollment of 493,000. Louisiana has 1,407 schools in 131 districts with enrollment of 710,000.

If Arkansas was to consolidate these smaller districts in the rural counties, especially East Arkansas, there would be better talent development and more kids given the opportunity to play football.  Out of the 288 districts in Arkansas there are approximately 70, nearly 25%, that don't play football.  That means approximately 50,000 boys never have the opportunity to play the game.

It is doable but with the impatience in today's microwave world I don't see it happening unless Jeff Long, who I believe has the vision and patience to make it happen, is left alone to let BB develop the program in his image and develop the identity everybody seems to want but don't have the patience to allow it to mature.

Got to disagree with you here buddy. Consolidation, at least in Southeast Arkansas, has literally killed 3 football programs and hamstrung several others. Kids are not going to ride a bus for 45 minutes each way and get home at 8 o'clock just to play football. Some will, most will not. This has a lot to do with the Little Rock High School kids losing interest in football. I understand that a ton of people a lot smarter and more informed than me were all for consolidation, and they all had good reasons. I just never saw the real benefit in the long run. For athletics, and certainly for education.

[ricepig]

The problem, and I will tread very lightly here, is the state's largest school district, within the state's largest population center, with the largest demographic from which most college football players are produced, is broken beyond repair.  J.A. Fair, home of Cedric Cobbs, hasn't had a winning season since Cobbs and Fa'Quan Harris won the state championship in the late 90's.  McClellan, Hall, and Parkview are vast wastelands as far as football goes. Central has done nothing since beating Mitch Mus-stain and Springdale in the mid-2000s.

Central, with an enrollment in excess of 2,500, has averaged around 60 or so players for many years, one year recently having only around 50 on the roster.  Catholic High has around 80 on the roster with about 25% of the enrollment.

North Little Rock, with one high school in a city of over 66,000, has produced 3 notable recent signees.  One has been hurt, one signed elsewhere and transferred from his original school and unfortunately passed away and the jury is still out on the third.


The LRSD has about 7,000 students among the 5 high schools in the district and football participation among those 5 schools is around 300 total.  Think about that.  Assuming the gender ratio is 50-50 (it's not as males tend to have a higher dropout rate), then approximately 8.6 of the males in the LRSD are involved in football.  Seems to me I recall Fair considering forfeits not long ago due to the extremely low numbers.

A local "activist" and his merry band have pillaged the LRSD in the name of desegregation and made a handsome profit all at the cost of the students.

No in-school athletic period (all tied to the action of the said "activist") means kid who are bused from the east side of Little Rock to PV or Hall and have no way back home other that to ride the bus can't stay after school to practice. 

Forget about Central Arkansas (Pulaski County) other than the few PA and other private schools will occasionally produce. The Pulaski county schools produce better than the LRSD.

LRSD instituted an "athletic" period either last year, or the year before, funny how the lack of one never hurt their participation in basketball???

I think you also missed a LB from NLR that came from JUCO, seems he was pretty good. But yes, the LRSD is a black hole as far as football is concerned, I'm not sure if there's enough money to fix it.

[Seebs]

A lobotomy and severing typing fingers from several posters would go a long way in helping Arkansas recruiting.

[westside_player]

It's not a selling point.  It's just the truth.

The point, however, is that while we have reasons why we struggle to keep up with the Joneses in the SEC, we still compete well with the rest of the nation.  A team like Oregon receives all sorts of praise for winning big in the PAC, but Arkansas would fare just as well if we played in the PAC.  In fact, we had more 4-5 star starters on our 2010 team, then Oregon did for it's 2010 team that played Auburn in the BCS Championship Game.

I wonder if the star rating system is different from the West and South East. I remember Oregon having a lot of 3 stars on those teams. But I do think they were as good as any team in the country that year because they did play Auburn close in that championship. If you remember correctly Auburn beat us by 28 that year.

[scruf]

I wonder if the star rating system is different from the West and South East. I remember Oregon having a lot of 3 stars on those teams. But I do think they were as good as any team in the country that year because they did play Auburn close in that championship. If you remember correctly Auburn beat us by 28 that year.

There are fewer athletes to evaluate out west. Oregon losing to Auburn has nothing to do with Arkansas losing to Auburn.

[westside_player]

The problem, and I will tread very lightly here, is the state's largest school district, within the state's largest population center, with the largest demographic from which most college football players are produced, is broken beyond repair.  J.A. Fair, home of Cedric Cobbs, hasn't had a winning season since Cobbs and Fa'Quan Harris won the state championship in the late 90's.  McClellan, Hall, and Parkview are vast wastelands as far as football goes. Central has done nothing since beating Mitch Mus-stain and Springdale in the mid-2000s.

Central, with an enrollment in excess of 2,500, has averaged around 60 or so players for many years, one year recently having only around 50 on the roster.  Catholic High has around 80 on the roster with about 25% of the enrollment.

North Little Rock, with one high school in a city of over 66,000, has produced 3 notable recent signees.  One has been hurt, one signed elsewhere and transferred from his original school and unfortunately passed away and the jury is still out on the third.


The LRSD has about 7,000 students among the 5 high schools in the district and football participation among those 5 schools is around 300 total.  Think about that.  Assuming the gender ratio is 50-50 (it's not as males tend to have a higher dropout rate), then approximately 8.6 of the males in the LRSD are involved in football.  Seems to me I recall Fair considering forfeits not long ago due to the extremely low numbers.

A local "activist" and his merry band have pillaged the LRSD in the name of desegregation and made a handsome profit all at the cost of the students.

No in-school athletic period (all tied to the action of the said "activist") means kid who are bused from the east side of Little Rock to PV or Hall and have no way back home other that to ride the bus can't stay after school to practice. 

Forget about Central Arkansas (Pulaski County) other than the few PA and other private schools will occasionally produce. The Pulaski county schools produce better than the LRSD.

+1.

You know Little Rock McClellen has a new coach that won high school coach of the year. His name is Maurice something. They played Pulaski Academy in the 5A state championship.

I'll tell you what would likely work for the LRSD with time and strategy. Do away with football at stagnant programs where numbers are low and build two or three 7A power houses in different precincts of the city. If a kid wants to play football he can go to either Central, McClellen, or one on the west side of the city like Parkview. Take the money you put in the programs you are going to close and put it in the programs you want to make stronger.  Then you hire the best coaches available and pay the best in the state.  Have a system to start introducing these kids as 7th graders to football and let them grow up wanting to compete for one of the Little Rock schools.  Hire coaches and assistants who can walk the halls and recruit players.  Let them play the rivalry game vs each other last game of the regular season.  Then I think you would see more kids coming from around Pulaski County to play for a Little Rock school eventually and obviously competition breeds success.  I don't think it's necessary to have great facilities to start with just a plan to retain good coaches and get more kids wanting to stay out of trouble, make their grades and have a desire to play.  I think we have to get more Little Rock kids interested in playing and having fun.  Winning, competition, bigger crowds, and better coaching, and a chance to play somewhere in college would do that.

If this Maurice guy at McCellan keeps doing well then that indicates to me it's possible.  I would think every year Little Rock is capable of producing at least 2 or 3 SEC quality players. 

[Inhogswetrust]

putting the airport in the middle of a cow pasture did not help. With no direct way out. That drive back to the highway, has deliverance written all over it.
it is the first the first impression, and the last impression

You should see some of the other airports in college towns. They are just as bad.