The Cupboard Was Never Bare

[MountieDawg]

Go look at the 2010 AND 2011 recruiting classes. It was bare. Sure we had some good players but you have to some halfway decent depth. Those guys should have been the upperclassmen during CBB first and second years but instead the underclassmen had to step up in a big way.

DEPTH IS WORSE 5 YEARS IN!  NOT 1 DEEP AT MANY POSITIONS!  PROBABLY NOT MORE THAN 6 STARTERS ON THIS TEAM WOULD START AT MORE THAN 1 OR 2 SCHOOLS IN THE SEC.

[From Tusk Till Dawn]

The cupboard has always been bare here, some years worse than others.  Over the past 10 years (2.5 regimes) we have averaged 10th in the sec in recruiting.   And guess what, if you look at those coaches at the schools below ours their records are as bad or worse.

[GuvHog]

We were when he was hurt early in the season with no depth behind him. A mistake for that one season that wasn't going to be good anyway?   

Yes, it was a mistake. The OC was high on BM all spring and wanted him as the starter for 2013 but Bret overruled him and started BA because Bret liked to play favorites. BA clearly wasn't ready to be the starter in 2013 and the OC knew it. That overrule by Bret put a strain on the relationship he had with the OC and finally resulted in the OC leaving later along with his O-Line coach.

[hogsanity]

The cupboard has always been bare here, some years worse than others.  Over the past 10 years (2.5 regimes) we have averaged 10th in the sec in recruiting.   And guess what, if you look at those coaches at the schools below ours their records are as bad or worse.

Even though most here do not want to admit it, college football still comes down to jimmies and joes. If ou do not have at least close to what your opponent has, your x's and o's do not matter. And that is why many do not want to deal with that because. 25 years in, it is apparent that the talent problem can not be fixed in a way to SUSTAIN winning at a high level.

[GuvHog]

Go look at the 2010 AND 2011 recruiting classes. It was bare. Sure we had some good players but you have to some halfway decent depth. Those guys should have been the upperclassmen during CBB first and second years but instead the underclassmen had to step up in a big way.

BS. The 2014 Hog defense (which was by far the best Defense Bret has had at Arkansas) was anchored by Petrino recruits. At least half of the defensive starters that year were BP's recruits (I realize that Spaight was CBB's recruit). It's no coincidence that the defense tanked after Petrino's recruits left

[factchecker]

The cupboard has always been bare here, some years worse than others.  Over the past 10 years (2.5 regimes) we have averaged 10th in the sec in recruiting.   And guess what, if you look at those coaches at the schools below ours their records are as bad or worse.

It starts in state.

All the talk about hating mediocrity and demanding excellence means nothing when your high school football produces mediocre talent.  One DMAC every 20 years doesn't cut it.

[hogsanity]

BS. The 2014 Hog defense (which was by far the best Defense Bret has had at Arkansas) was anchored by Petrino recruits. At least half of the defensive starters that year were BP's recruits (I realize that Speight was CBB's recruit). It's no coincidence that the defense tanked after Petrino's recruits left

You guys are so small picture when looking at recruiting. You have to look at the entire class, how many stayed the full time, how many left early ( regardless of reason ) how many played significant roles on the team. Yes, the 2014 team had some good defenders on it, but overall it was a weak class that was even worse when you figure in signees that did not stay or stayed but did not play much. If those classes were so good then Brooks Ellis could have redshirted, so could the olmen and HH, and some of the db's that BB signed in 13 and 14.

You could go out and sign 7 top 50 recruits and have a great class on ranking, but if the rest of the class is full of non contributors, that class, when it is all done, is not going to accomplish much.

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

BS. The 2014 Hog defense (which was by far the best Defense Bret has had at Arkansas) was anchored by Petrino recruits. At least half of the defensive starters that year were BP's recruits (I realize that Speight was CBB's recruit). It's no coincidence that the defense tanked after Petrino's recruits left

somebody gets it

[EastexHawg]

"If you want to be competitive in the SEC, you better have big, strong defensive linemen, physical guys, and lockdown corners. If you don’t have that, you don’t have a chance. And right now they don’t have that." …

Really?  We didn't have that?  Do Trey Flowers, Deatrich Wise, Darius Philon, Chris Smith, Robert Thomas, and Chris Smith count?  Do the Patriots (Flowers and Wise), Chargers (Philon), Giants (Thomas), and Bengals (Smith) know that the defensive linemen currently on their rosters from Arkansas...the ones left to Bielema by Petrino...aren't good enough to play?

I always find it more accurate and authoritative to go back four and five years and look at predictions than the actual results that have transpired in the meantime.

[hogsanity]

It starts in state.

All the talk about hating mediocrity and demanding excellence means nothing when your high school football produces mediocre talent.  One DMAC every 20 years doesn't cut it.

Watch out, there are those here who actually believe the Hogs do not sign enough in state players now.

[EastexHawg]

You guys are so small picture when looking at recruiting. You have to look at the entire class, how many stayed the full time, how many left early ( regardless of reason ) how many played significant roles on the team. Yes, the 2014 team had some good defenders on it, but overall it was a weak class that was even worse when you figure in signees that did not stay or stayed but did not play much. If those classes were so good then Brooks Ellis could have redshirted, so could the olmen and HH, and some of the db's that BB signed in 13 and 14.

You could go out and sign 7 top 50 recruits and have a great class on ranking, but if the rest of the class is full of non contributors, that class, when it is all done, is not going to accomplish much.

Brooks Ellis could have redshirted if Bielema hadn't run off Otha Peters.  Try to keep up.

[Wildhog]

It starts in state.

All the talk about hating mediocrity and demanding excellence means nothing when your high school football produces mediocre talent.  One DMAC every 20 years doesn't cut it.

Which is why you have to have a coach that gets the most out of the mediocre talent he's able to sign. 

That 2008 class wouldn't be viewed the way it is today if it weren't for Petrino and what he was able to get out of them.

[PorkRinds]

Yes, it was a mistake. The OC was high on BM all spring and wanted him as the starter for 2013 but Bret overruled him and started BA because Bret liked to play favorites. BA clearly wasn't ready to be the starter in 2013 and the OC knew it. That overrule by Bret put a strain on the relationship he had with the OC and finally resulted in the OC leaving later along with his O-Line coach.

That's complete bull darn right there.

[GuvHog]

Brooks Ellis could have redshirted if Bielema hadn't run off Otha Peters.  Try to keep up.

Hammer meet Nail!! Well said Eastex!

[GuvHog]

That’s complete bull darn right there.

No sir, it is not! That is EXACTLY what happened! Look how Chaney's offense is kicking butt and taking names at Georgia. It's obvious that Bret's interference hampered Chaney here at Arkansas.

[hogsanity]

Brooks Ellis could have redshirted if Bielema hadn't run off Otha Peters.  Try to keep up.

It is easy to keep up with you, just find Petrino's as% and you will be attached.

Tell you what, since you seem to be some sort of expert on the great classes BP signed after a 10 win and an 11 win season, why don't you list every player in those classes and what they did while here.

If you can use the search function someone did that a couple years ago and it was pathetic how little overall production those 2 classes provided.

[Wildhog]

No sir, it is not! That is EXACTLY what happened!

You choose the strangest arguments to make.

[hogsanity]

That's complete bull darn right there.

Remember, for Guv and a few others, everything is always someone conspiring to NOT play the best players.

[factchecker]

Yes, it was a mistake. The OC was high on BM all spring and wanted him as the starter for 2013 but Bret overruled him and started BA because Bret liked to play favorites. BA clearly wasn't ready to be the starter in 2013 and the OC knew it. That overrule by Bret put a strain on the relationship he had with the OC and finally resulted in the OC leaving later along with his O-Line coach.

Link?

[GuvHog]

You choose the strangest arguments to make.

All one has to do is look at what Chaney is accomplishing at Georgia this year and it's quite obvious that he was hampered by Bret's interference at Arkansas.

[DLUXHOG]

All one has to do is look at what Chaney is accomplishing at Georgia this year and it's quite obvious that he was hampered by Bret's interference at Arkansas.

so.... what will it take to get you and many others here off of Bret's back?
a) at least a 10-2 season next year?
b) at least a 9-3 season this year?
c) both?

what if he did that?   would there still be complaining?  what is "good enough"?

[EastexHawg]

It is easy to keep up with you, just find Petrino's as% and you will be attached.

Tell you what, since you seem to be some sort of expert on the great classes BP signed after a 10 win and an 11 win season, why don't you list every player in those classes and what they did while here.

If you can use the search function someone did that a couple years ago and it was pathetic how little overall production those 2 classes provided.

I can see you're starting to get angry now that the tide is finally turning and the incompetent coach and AD you have defended so long are probably on the way out.  Gee, where have I heard this before?  Oh, yeah, now I remember.  Speaking of having something attached to someone's whatever, you know all about that.  You were the biggest Nutt defender on this board.

I don't need search functions.  I remember every bumbling, incompetent move made during this entire sorry affair.  Big Boy and Long...and let's not forget Long's buddy John L. Smith, whose creditors in a bankruptcy case Long tried to help Smiley screw over...have presided over the decimation of the Arkansas football program.  While for some reason that doesn't seem to bother you, it irks the hell out of most of the rest of us.

[hogsanity]

All one has to do is look at what Chaney is accomplishing at Georgia this year and it's quite obvious that he was hampered by Bret's interference at Arkansas.

YEa, cause the talent level at GA this year is on par with what the Hogs had in 2013...............

[factchecker]

All one has to do is look at what Chaney is accomplishing at Georgia this year and it's quite obvious that he was hampered by Bret's interference at Arkansas.

"Chaney said Allen was by far the best QB.  He said that Mitchell was nowhere near as good as Allen."

Don't ask me for proof just look at what is happening at a school with 5 star talent up and down the roster as evidence.

This is what you are doing when you make outlandish claims without proof.

Provide a sound byte, an interview, or a link that backs your claim:

Yes, it was a mistake. The OC was high on BM all spring and wanted him as the starter for 2013 but Bret overruled him and started BA because Bret liked to play favorites. BA clearly wasn't ready to be the starter in 2013 and the OC knew it. That overrule by Bret put a strain on the relationship he had with the OC and finally resulted in the OC leaving later along with his O-Line coach.

[Jim Harris]

Pretty sure McKay transferred to Cincinnati post Petrino firing. Just another bullet stat people use to make it look like things were obviously on the downhill while Petrino was still here. Nevermind players that left after the firing.

He's in the NFL now? Good to hear.

Otha Peters got a shot this summer. But he wasn't good enough for Bielema when they didn't have more than 1 linebacker worth squat. Never understood that. They ran him off. Bielema's game apparently requires a whole lot of thinking instead of just playing.

[hogsanity]

"Chaney said Allen was by far the best QB.  He said that Mitchell was nowhere near as good as Allen."

Don't ask me for proof just look at what is happening at a school with 5 star talent up and down the roster as evidence.

This is what you are doing when you make outlandish claims without proof.

Provide a sound byte, an interview, or a link that backs your claim:

Did you really just ask Guv to back up something he said?  Thats the funniest thing I have heard today.

[From Tusk Till Dawn]

No sir, it is not! That is EXACTLY what happened! Look how Chaney's offense is kicking butt and taking names at Georgia. It's obvious that Bret's interference hampered Chaney here at Arkansas.

Careful, Chaney was not their first choice.  They wanted Enos (and HV has already established our entire staff is terrible)

[PorkRinds]

No sir, it is not! That is EXACTLY what happened! Look how Chaney's offense is kicking butt and taking names at Georgia. It's obvious that Bret's interference hampered Chaney here at Arkansas.

His offense at GA has nothing to do with your assertion that he wanted Mitchell to be the starter.

[hogsanity]

Brooks Ellis could have redshirted if Bielema hadn't run off Otha Peters.  Try to keep up.

BTW, Peters was on the team in 2013, he played in 5 games.

[factchecker]

Did you really just ask Guv to back up something he said?  Thats the funniest thing I have heard today.

I don't get it.  I don't understand the need to push rumors, hearsay, and in some cases flat out lies.  Bielema is done here.  He will be gone soon.

If you need any defense for wanting him gone simply state his record.

[factchecker]

BTW, Peters was on the team in 2013, he played in 5 games.

Funny how "realists" don't even know who was on the team.

[Wildhog]

I don't get it.  I don't understand the need to push rumors, hearsay, and in some cases flat out lies.  Bielema is done here.  He will be gone soon.

If you need any defense for wanting him gone simply state his record.

Honestly.

[Jim Harris]

Remember, for Guv and a few others, everything is always someone conspiring to NOT play the best players.

Well, to be fair, Bielema did bring in his buddy's son from Juco to be backup quarterback, let Mitchell walk to NCState, and then was forced to start him at Rutgers and to backup BA all year when he could have been already playing TE, his natural position and where he's excelling now in the NFL. But don't let that change the narrative.

[factchecker]

I guess Bielema pushed AJ Turner out as well.

How did he do at jonesboro state?

I heard that Chaney wanted to start Peavey over everybody.

How is he doing at SMU?

[Atlhogfan1]

Really?  We didn't have that?  Do Trey Flowers, Deatrich Wise, Darius Philon, Chris Smith, Robert Thomas, and Chris Smith count?  Do the Patriots (Flowers and Wise), Chargers (Philon), Giants (Thomas), and Bengals (Smith) know that the defensive linemen currently on their rosters from Arkansas...the ones left to Bielema by Petrino...aren't good enough to play?

I always find it more accurate and authoritative to go back four and five years and look at predictions than the actual results that have transpired in the meantime.

Well you didn't really dispute the SEC coach who said it when you listed 3 DEs including a Fr in 13 in Wise and Philon was a Fr. Not a lot of proven talent there especially at DT. 

[DLUXHOG]

Funny how "realists" don't even know who was on the team.

and I'm sure, that you, by memory and without the help of the internet, can list every player that played or started for the Hogs in 2013............  please...

[Jim Harris]

BTW, Peters was on the team in 2013, he played in 5 games.

Right. He was on hand for one Bielema season. And he had to play as true freshman for John L.

[hogsanity]

Well, to be fair, Bielema did bring in his buddy's son from Juco to be backup quarterback, let Mitchell walk to NCState, and then was forced to start him at Rutgers and to backup BA all year when he could have been already playing TE, his natural position and where he's excelling now in the NFL. But don't let that change the narrative.

IRRC Mitchell did not want to be the back up, and I do not blame a 5th yr sr for that, so BB helped him find a place where he could grad transfer and play.

[Temprees]

Best players were a center and FB on the first team. After BM left we had zero qb depth and was forced to play BA.

We were not forced to play BA as our QB, after BM left. BM left because Coach BB named BA as the starter coming out of spring practice. That was BB's first big mistake.

[Jim Harris]

I guess Bielema pushed AJ Turner out as well.

How did he do at jonesboro state?

I heard that Chaney wanted to start Peavey over everybody.

How is he doing at SMU?

A.J. Turner apparently smoked his way out of both places. Wasted talent.

Peavey is third string at SMU. I didn't gather that he was Chaney's first choice to sign anyway, but they failed to get the Oklahoma kid he liked to chose Alabama and then transfered elsewhere.

[factchecker]

Well, to be fair, Bielema did bring in his buddy's son from Juco to be backup quarterback, let Mitchell walk to NCState, and then was forced to start him at Rutgers and to backup BA all year when he could have been already playing TE, his natural position and where he's excelling now in the NFL. But don't let that change the narrative.

To be fair, A.J. Derby walked on and earned his scholarship by moving to tight end.  He didn't want to move there at first so he was allowed to walk on at quarterback.  He was forced into a backup role because Mitchell left and Austin was red-shirting.  Thankfully, A.J. listened to the coaches and moved to tight end.

Without that move A.J. wouldn't be in the NFL.

[hogsanity]

We were not forced to play BA as our QB, after BM left. BM left because Coach BB named BA as the starter coming out of spring practice. That was BB's first big mistake.

why was it a mistake to start a future NFL draft pick at QB for a team that everyone knew was going no where that season. The experience he got that year helped him be a good Qb in 14 & 15.

[factchecker]

Right. He was on hand for one Bielema season. And he had to play as true freshman for John L.

Otha also broke his arm during fall camp in 2013.

[factchecker]

why was it a mistake to start a future NFL draft pick at QB for a team that everyone knew was going no where that season. The experience he got that year helped him be a good Qb in 14 & 15.

Wait..... Allen is in the NFL?

It has to be because Bobby Allen is paying someone.  Maybe some GM is kin to the Allens. 

[Jim Harris]

IRRC Mitchell did not want to be the back up, and I do not blame a 5th yr sr for that, so BB helped him find a place where he could grad transfer and play.

I get that. I don't think it's farfetched for the others here to say that BA as a third-year sophomore still wasn't ready to be an SEC starter either, but he wasn't the reason they couldn't even win one league game in Bielema's first season. In your first year at the helm, it makes perfect sense that if you see BA as your starter in years 2 and 3 and you don't see BM as that big of a difference maker that first year, you do what Bielema did. No argument there.

I just want to know why Bielema thought Austin Jones needed to be a starter at LB that first year? That lasted 1 game? 2? Not meaning to demean Jones, I know he gave everything he had. I just don't like how they messed with Peters for a year if he had next level ability.

[Atlhogfan1]

We were not forced to play BA as our QB, after BM left. BM left because Coach BB named BA as the starter coming out of spring practice. That was BB's first big mistake.

Who would we have played if not BA after BM left?

[hogsanity]

Otha also broke his arm during fall camp in 2013.

And once he recovered he played. Eliis had to play because with that injury Ellis and Spaight were the only 2 MLB's on the team, because there were none from the 10 or 11 classes.

[Jim Harris]

Otha also broke his arm during fall camp in 2013.

I can't remember anymore, did they consider redshirting him then or did he just some special teams work when he was ready to come back?

[Jim Harris]

To be fair, A.J. Derby walked on and earned his scholarship by moving to tight end.  He didn't want to move there at first so he was allowed to walk on at quarterback.  He was forced into a backup role because Mitchell left and Austin was red-shirting.  Thankfully, A.J. listened to the coaches and moved to tight end.

Without that move A.J. wouldn't be in the NFL.

thanks for being fair.

[hogsanity]

I get that. I don't think it's farfetched for the others here to say that BA as a third-year sophomore still wasn't ready to be an SEC starter either, but he wasn't the reason they couldn't even win one league game in Bielema's first season. In your first year at the helm, it makes perfect sense that if you see BA as your starter in years 2 and 3 and you don't see BM as that big of a difference maker that first year, you do what Bielema did. No argument there.

I just want to know why Bielema thought Austin Jones needed to be a starter at LB that first year? That lasted 1 game? 2? Not meaning to demean Jones, I know he gave everything he had. I just don't like how they messed with Peters for a year if he had next level ability.

As fact pointed out, Peters broke his arm in fall camp, which kept him out for about 2 months.