The Cupboard Was Never Bare

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

Bielema Went 3-9 in his 1st season here. Some of the excuses given by the fans were "the cupboard is bare", "He doesn't have the talent he needs", etc. Looking back, we wanted him to win so badly that we blinded ourselves to the truth: He was (and still is) in over his head.

Lets take a look at the Razorback turned NFL players that "didn't have the talent" Bret needed.

QB Brandon Allen
OT Brey Cook
FB Kiero Small
DE Trey Flowers
C Travis Swanson
K Zach Hocker
DE Chris Smith
CB Tevin Mitchell
RB Jonathan Williams
WR Keon Hatcher
LB Otha Peters
DT Darius Philon
DE Deatrich Wise
TE Jeremy Sprinkle
WR Mekale McKay
WR Demetrius Williams

I understand that many of these guys were young when bielema arrived but the 3 win season was and always will be completely unacceptable. Was/Is the problem talent or coaching?

[Atlhogfan1]

Bielema Went 3-9 in his 1st season here. Some of the excuses given by the fans were "the cupboard is bare", "He doesn't have the talent he needs", etc. Looking back, we wanted him to win so badly that we blinded ourselves to the truth: He was (and still is) in over his head.

Lets take a look at the Razorback turned NFL players that "didn't have the talent" Bret needed.

QB Brandon Allen
OT Brey Cook
FB Kiero Small
DE Trey Flowers
C Travis Swanson
K Zach Hocker
DE Chris Smith
CB Tevin Mitchell
RB Jonathan Williams
WR Keon Hatcher
LB Otha Peters
DT Darius Philon
DE Deatrich Wise
TE Jeremy Sprinkle
WR Mekale McKay
WR Demetrius Williams

I understand that many of these guys were young when bielema arrived but the 3 win season was and always will be completely unacceptable. Was/Is the problem talent or coaching?

Best players were a center and FB on the first team. After BM left we had zero qb depth and was forced to play BA.

[PorkRinds]

16 dudes don't make an SEC football team.

[Grag T]

Bielema Went 3-9 in his 1st season here.

And he could very possibly go 3-9 in his final season as well

[hawgon]

Best players were a center and FB on the first team. After BM left we had zero qb depth and was forced to play BA.

BM was pushed out the door.  That's a fact.

[Atlhogfan1]

BM was pushed out the door.  That's a fact.

Ok.

[PorkRinds]

BM was pushed out the door.  That's a fact.

Uh...that's actually an opinion.

[jkstock04]

Pretty sure McKay transferred to Cincinnati post Petrino firing. Just another bullet stat people use to make it look like things were obviously on the downhill while Petrino was still here. Nevermind players that left after the firing.

He's in the NFL now? Good to hear.

[RazorPiggie]

Go look at the 2010 AND 2011 recruiting classes. It was bare. Sure we had some good players but you have to some halfway decent depth. Those guys should have been the upperclassmen during CBB first and second years but instead the underclassmen had to step up in a big way.

[jkstock04]

That list is pretty revealing lol...Otha Peters wasn't good enough to play LB for Bielema, but he's good enough to make a NFL squad. That's telling...especially considering what our LB play has looked like as a whole under Bielema.

He probably didn't have enough integrity or something like that.

[RazorPiggie]

That list is pretty revealing lol...Otha Peters wasn't good enough to play LB for Bielema, but he's good enough to make a NFL squad. That's telling...especially considering what our LB play has looked like as a whole under Bielema.

He probably didn't have enough integrity or something like that.

Peters was signed as an undrafted FA in May of this year and was waived in September.

[DLUXHOG]

Peters was signed as an undrafted FA in May of this year and was waived in September.

oh please.. this was getting so entertaining and now you go and add factual perspective to the argument.............

[hogsanity]

The 2013 team had to start freshmen all over the field because those Fr were better than what was already here. You think he would not have rather Redshirted guys like Kirkland, Ellis, Skipper, Henry and some of the db's? HE couldn't because they were just better players than what he inherited.

The bigger question to the Op is why bring this up? Couldn't find a new way to show how bad this season has been so far? Do you count Bp's 1st season? Mike Anderson's? They all arrived under similar roster issues, little returning production and no depth, having to rely on FR to tote the mail.

[hawgon]

Here is the deal with Bielema.  He had a plan.  Some players fit and some didn't.  That plan and the idea, reinforced from the top, that Petrino ran some sort of outlaw program caused him to needlessly jettison a bunch of players in his first few years.  It caused him to park some in the bench while playing "his guys" and planning for the future.

He didn't exactly ignore trying to win, but he did not coach with a sense of urgency as that he had been assured from the top that he would have six years or so and he was confident in his plan.  Ironically, had Long not given him such a seemingly ironclad assurance that he would have the time he needed, he might have coached with more urgency and have a few more wins.  As few as four or five more wins over the last four years would have things now being a totally different conversation.

[Wildhog]

It was very similar to 2008, when we had to start a **** load of freshmen because of what Nutt left behind. 

[Atlhogfan1]

That list is pretty revealing lol...Otha Peters wasn't good enough to play LB for Bielema, but he's good enough to make a NFL squad. That's telling...especially considering what our LB play has looked like as a whole under Bielema.

He probably didn't have enough integrity or something like that.

As revealing as Petrino thinking Spaight was too small lol.  Spaight who is still in the NFL.

[Temprees]

Best players were a center and FB on the first team. After BM left we had zero qb depth and was forced to play BA.

We were not forced to play BA as our QB, after BM left. BM left because Coach BB named BA as the starter coming out of spring practice. That was BB's first big mistake.

[Atlhogfan1]

We were not forced to play BA as our QB, after BM left. BM left because Coach BB named BA as the starter coming out of spring practice. That was BB's first big mistake.

We were when he was hurt early in the season with no depth behind him. A mistake for that one season that wasn't going to be good anyway?   

[RazorPiggie]

We were not forced to play BA as our QB, after BM left. BM left because Coach BB named BA as the starter coming out of spring practice. That was BB's first big mistake.

Mitchell was terrible.

[Poker_hog]

It's been pretty obvious for a while that belima loses about 2 more games a year than he should.  That team had huge holes but was not 0-8 bad.  That was the first sign for me that he would fail here.

[hogsanity]

We were not forced to play BA as our QB, after BM left. BM left because Coach BB named BA as the starter coming out of spring practice. That was BB's first big mistake.

Why wouldn't he? What was the use in playing a 5th yr sr who was not going to be here after 1 year, knowing that year was not going to be any good anyway, when you could get BA a years worth of experience with no pressure at all. It was alot like Ford did with Stoerner in 97, and Clint was a much btter Qb in 98 than he would have been had he not played as much as he did in 97.

I have the same feeling this year really, if the Hogs drop their next 2, which is likely, I would start Kelly, not because I think he is better than AA right now, but because he looks to be the starter next year after AA runs out of eligibility.

[Wildhog]

It's been pretty obvious for a while that belima loses about 2 more games a year than he should.  That team had huge holes but was not 0-8 bad.  That was the first sign for me that he would fail here.

I agree. 

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

Pretty sure McKay transferred to Cincinnati post Petrino firing. Just another bullet stat people use to make it look like things were obviously on the downhill while Petrino was still here. Nevermind players that left after the firing.

He's in the NFL now? Good to hear.

Actually McKay transferred after Bielema arrived, so as I said, another NFL guy that was on campus when bielema arrived. Bielema not being able to keep him is just another indictment on his roster management

[HotlantaHog]

It's been pretty obvious for a while that belima loses about 2 more games a year than he should.  That team had huge holes but was not 0-8 bad.  That was the first sign for me that he would fail here.

I agree with this too. Petrino came in and his first year was truly faced with a cupboard that was bare -- very little talent on hand ... And Hogs ended up 5-7 which was a miracle given how little talent that team had ... Petrino of course was a great game coach...

There is no reasonable explanation for why the first year was so bad. And as I recall a lot of games were close and there were some boneheaded decisions...  the record should have been much better.

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

Peters was signed as an undrafted FA in May of this year and was waived in September.

Actually Peters is a member of the seattle seahawks organization. Even if he doesn't stick in the NFL he made it there. NFL talent is NFL talent no matter how brief

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

The 2013 team had to start freshmen all over the field because those Fr were better than what was already here. You think he would not have rather Redshirted guys like Kirkland, Ellis, Skipper, Henry and some of the db's? HE couldn't because they were just better players than what he inherited.

The bigger question to the Op is why bring this up? Couldn't find a new way to show how bad this season has been so far? Do you count Bp's 1st season? Mike Anderson's? They all arrived under similar roster issues, little returning production and no depth, having to rely on FR to tote the mail.

Did the go 3-9 in their 1st year? Absolutely not. If JFB was still AD, Bielema wouldn't have made it through the season

[EastexHawg]

Peters was signed as an undrafted FA in May of this year and was waived in September.

Do you think our defenses the last couple of years could have used linebackers...actually anyone at any position...signed by NFL teams for any reason or length of time?

Actually the OP left off Robert Thomas, who is still with the Giants.  Rohan Gaines made it to the final cut with the Rams this year.  Taiwan Johnson started something like 39 straight games with the Hogs.

[hogsanity]

Did the go 3-9 in their 1st year? Absolutely not. If JFB was still AD, Bielema wouldn't have made it through the season

They all had bad seasons. BP and BB both missed bowls and Mike did not make the post season, and none should have been expected to considering what they walked into.

[DeltaBoy]

Could it be tougher in the SEC than the NFL???

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

Mitchell was terrible.

But he was good enough to transfer to another power 5 program and be named starter? An unfortunate early season injury prevented him from showing us what he could really do however

[Atlhogfan1]

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/sec-coaches-talk-anonymously-about-conference-foes-2013

"They are going to be terrible. What they are doing now, it's the product of bad recruiting. They have a long way to go. That's nothing against the new coach (Bret Bielema). But they are going to be terrible in Year 1." ...

"They are really going to struggle. What happened was they had eight starters who got injured, and they were fighting an uphill battle all of last year. I think they'll struggle up front, they'll struggle in the secondary, the linebackers should be average." ...

"They are going to be slim in a lot of spots. It's going to take them three years to get a good foundation. It's a product of bad recruiting — which is typical of a Bobby Petrino school. It's the same thing that happened at Louisville that got Steve Kragthorpe fired. Petrino didn't leave him any players. It's the same thing at Arkansas. They have no players on defense. Petrino would load up on offense and leave the cupboard bare. That's why he can't ever get over the hump." ...

"If you want to be competitive in the SEC, you better have big, strong defensive linemen, physical guys, and lockdown corners. If you don't have that, you don't have a chance. And right now they don't have that." ...

"I don't know really how good they are up front offensively, but I'm kind of skeptical based on what I know."

[phadedhawg]

Did the go 3-9 in their 1st year? Absolutely not. If JFB was still AD, Bielema wouldn't have made it through the season

Then we should be thankful that he wasn't the AD.  Running a "respected" hire out of town after one season, considering the dumpster fire the season before was, would have had any serious coach eliminate us from consideration for future coaching gigs. 

[hogsanity]

But he was good enough to transfer to another power 5 program and be named starter? An unfortunate early season injury prevented him from showing us what he could really do however

HE had had 4 season here to show what he could do and could not even beat out BA in spring practice 2013.

[phadedhawg]

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/sec-coaches-talk-anonymously-about-conference-foes-2013

"They are going to be terrible. What they are doing now, it's the product of bad recruiting. They have a long way to go. That's nothing against the new coach (Bret Bielema). But they are going to be terrible in Year 1." ...

"They are really going to struggle. What happened was they had eight starters who got injured, and they were fighting an uphill battle all of last year. I think they'll struggle up front, they'll struggle in the secondary, the linebackers should be average." ...

"They are going to be slim in a lot of spots. It's going to take them three years to get a good foundation. It's a product of bad recruiting — which is typical of a Bobby Petrino school. It's the same thing that happened at Louisville that got Steve Kragthorpe fired. Petrino didn't leave him any players. It's the same thing at Arkansas. They have no players on defense. Petrino would load up on offense and leave the cupboard bare. That's why he can't ever get over the hump." ...

"If you want to be competitive in the SEC, you better have big, strong defensive linemen, physical guys, and lockdown corners. If you don't have that, you don't have a chance. And right now they don't have that." ...

"I don't know really how good they are up front offensively, but I'm kind of skeptical based on what I know."

Those coaches said those things because they knew we had an athletic director who doesn't know how to develop players or something....

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

They all had bad seasons. BP and BB both missed bowls and Mike did not make the post season, and none should have been expected to considering what they walked into.

You totally dodged the question. I asked if Petrino or mike Anderson went 3-9 (or the basketball equivalent of it) in year one.

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

It's been pretty obvious for a while that belima loses about 2 more games a year than he should.  That team had huge holes but was not 0-8 bad.  That was the first sign for me that he would fail here.

I think everyone would agree with that

[King Kong]

Cupboard was bare. But it's year 5 now

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

HE had had 4 season here to show what he could do and could not even beat out BA in spring practice 2013.

Are you serious? 4 seasons behind Ryan Mallet and Tyler Wilson. There aren't many guys that would've gotten the start ahead of those 2

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

Cupboard was bare. But it's year 5 now

/Thread

[hogsanity]

You totally dodged the question. I asked if Petrino or mike Anderson went 3-9 (or the basketball equivalent of it) in year one.

No, but the end result was the same. Would it have mattered to the CURRENT SEASON if BB had gone 5-7 as well?

[Atlhogfan1]

Cupboard was bare. But it's year 5 now

Yes.

/Thread

YES! 

[hogsanity]

/Thread

Wait, you start a thread saying the cupboard was never bare, then say the thread is over when someone says it was bare but it is year 5 now?

What was the point of the Op then, except to wet your lips and plant them firmly on Bp's backside.

[Kevin]

I don't know how bare the cupboard was, but I do remember ash saying they had to teach them how to run the video machines so the players could watch film by themselves.

[jkstock04]

Peters was signed as an undrafted FA in May of this year and was waived in September.

Funny how that narrative doesn't fly with Bielema recruits.

[rhames]

Who would have thought that Rutgers game in 2013 was a look into the future



It pretty much predicted Bret's tenure here

[Hoginsavga]

https://athlonsports.com/college-football/sec-coaches-talk-anonymously-about-conference-foes-2013

"They are going to be terrible. What they are doing now, it's the product of bad recruiting. They have a long way to go. That's nothing against the new coach (Bret Bielema). But they are going to be terrible in Year 1." ...

"They are really going to struggle. What happened was they had eight starters who got injured, and they were fighting an uphill battle all of last year. I think they'll struggle up front, they'll struggle in the secondary, the linebackers should be average." ...

"They are going to be slim in a lot of spots. It's going to take them three years to get a good foundation. It's a product of bad recruiting — which is typical of a Bobby Petrino school. It's the same thing that happened at Louisville that got Steve Kragthorpe fired. Petrino didn't leave him any players. It's the same thing at Arkansas. They have no players on defense. Petrino would load up on offense and leave the cupboard bare. That's why he can't ever get over the hump." ...

"If you want to be competitive in the SEC, you better have big, strong defensive linemen, physical guys, and lockdown corners. If you don't have that, you don't have a chance. And right now they don't have that." ...

"I don't know really how good they are up front offensively, but I'm kind of skeptical based on what I know."

They would be fairly accurate making those same statements about this year's team, in all honesty.

[stronguard]

HE had had 4 season here to show what he could do and could not even beat out BA in spring practice 2013.

hard to beat out a coaches kid on the hill these days

[The Hawg Marshal]

Doesn't really matter if the cupboard was bare or not. It's been 5 years, no excuses now.

[GuvHog]

Are you serious? 4 seasons behind Ryan Mallet and Tyler Wilson. There aren't many guys that would've gotten the start ahead of those 2

Casey Dick was the starting QB in 2008.
Mallett was the starter in 2009 and 2010.
Tyler Wilson started in 2011.

[Hoginsavga]

hard to beat out a coaches kid on the hill these days

BA had to suffer through the Smily year. Did not have a qb coach when Cheney was OC for two years and learn a new system under Enos. Also did not have superior linemen to protect him in any given year although they were better than the protection AA is seeing.

Even with that he still made a good showing at Jacksonville and IMO should have made backup on the team. I firmly believe BA would have been outstanding playing under Petrino for four years. I also think the same is true for AA.