The "Needs more Time" Argument

[ballz2thewall]

Sunshine Rick brought up a better question:

Say Bielema finishes 6-6. He beats CC, Ole Miss, Mizzou, and splits Miss State and LSU. Then he goes and beats a bad 6-6 team in some lower bowl. Making him 7-6.

At that point, do you fire him?

yes. it's the pattern. redundant. wheels half in the ruts; half out.

[hehawg]

You do realize that Jeff Long is very well respected in the AD community?  Outside of football, he's done an outstanding job at the University of Arkansas.

Now days when this is said all anyone hears is "blah, blah, blah, ba, blah. Jeff Long swung and missed and the football program is now paying the price. Honest question what sport brings more revenue to the UofA? Yep you got it...football!

[scottwillrazbackfan1]

If he comes back after a 5-7 season, he will be a lame duck coach. No one wants to go into a season knowing this could be it. It would be hard to recruit, hire good assistants, and keep the team together.

[Inhogswetrust]

Let's suppose for purposes of argument that we finish 5-7 this year (I certainly do not foresee four more wins).

That would mean that after five years Bret Bielema's overall record at Arkansas is 30-33 (.476) and his SEC record is 12-28 (.300).

You are Jeff Long.

Make your case for why he should get a sixth year. Why does he "need more time?"

(My bet is that there isn't one, and the only justification for keeping him is the amount of money it would take to get rid of him...which is one helluva lousy reason to keep a coach with that record, and which is directly the fault of the athletic director.)

Agree completely. The conference record alone would be enough to fire him. A some point, and five years is enough, you have to start winning more conference games and not losing to non conference opponents like Texas Tech and Toledo at home. PLUS the numerous second half collapses with some really big leads at that and not having come back to win any games when losing at the half which is so far 16 games. Heck if they are losing at the half statistically everyone might as well go home.

[Inhogswetrust]

If he comes back after a 5-7 season, he will be a lame duck coach. No one wants to go into a season knowing this could be it. It would be hard to recruit, hire good assistants, and keep the team together.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner. I know a former Hog that was from out of sate and highly recruited in his sport. He didn't go to the normally successful school in the state he was from only because he knew the coach was in trouble of getting fired for not winning enough.

[hogcard1964]

If he comes back after a 5-7 season, he will be a lame duck coach. No one wants to go into a season knowing this could be it. It would be hard to recruit, hire good assistants, and keep the team together.

This is why I'd like to see him canned today.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Let's suppose for purposes of argument that we finish 5-7 this year (I certainly do not foresee four more wins).

That would mean that after five years Bret Bielema's overall record at Arkansas is 30-33 (.476) and his SEC record is 12-28 (.300).

You are Jeff Long.

Make your case for why he should get a sixth year. Why does he "need more time?"

(My bet is that there isn't one, and the only justification for keeping him is the amount of money it would take to get rid of him...which is one helluva lousy reason to keep a coach with that record, and which is directly the fault of the athletic director.)

Under those circumstances I most certainly can't offer a whit of justification for yet another year.

[PorkSoda]

Now days when this is said all anyone hears is "blah, blah, blah, ba, blah. Jeff Long swung and missed and the football program is now paying the price. Honest question what sport brings more revenue to the UofA? Yep you got it...football!

well he swung and hit with Petrino.  so I figure his football batting average is .500

Frank hired  Nutt, Ford, Kines, Crowe, Hatfield, Holtz.  That is 3 of 6 coaches with a winning record (including Nuttless) so he had the same .500 batting average.

with a lot of the names hogville have thrown around over the years, I would say Hogvilles batting average on coaches is less than .500

I'm sure Long is not satisfied with the current state of Razorback Football.  He knows a change must be made.  He just has to figure out how to make it happen.

[1highhog]

Money, get away
Get a good job with more pay and you're okay
Money, it's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash
New car, caviar, four star daydream
Think I'll buy me a football team

Lyrics from Pink Floyd's Money.....

That buyout is substantial.  That's real money that the athletic dept. is going to have to pay.  I just hope that CBB and his agent are amenable to a much lower buyout and a quiet exit. 

I get that as Razorback fans that we want to win but the money is a real issue.  Whether or not it comes from "big money boosters" or not it doesn't matter.  The number is the number. 

That's what makes this such a dung sandwich. 

That's the biggest issue I see in all of this and it's all our AD's fault.  Giving a struggling coach such a huge buyout on his contract was ludicrous at the time, I do see some good things that Long has done while he's been here and we've been lucky in those regards to have him, I remember when he was first hired many people(national sports media), were saying he'd have a difficult time trying to do the job of Coach Broyles in being able to raise funds to continue to build and improve the athletic facilities at the UofA, in that regard, he has done and admirable job.

[Inhogswetrust]

This is why I'd like to see him canned today.

That changes none of the dynamics involved.

[lynbug]

Let's suppose for purposes of argument that we finish 5-7 this year (I certainly do not foresee four more wins).

That would mean that after five years Bret Bielema's overall record at Arkansas is 30-33 (.476) and his SEC record is 12-28 (.300).

You are Jeff Long.

Make your case for why he should get a sixth year. Why does he "need more time?"

(My bet is that there isn't one, and the only justification for keeping him is the amount of money it would take to get rid of him...which is one helluva lousy reason to keep a coach with that record, and which is directly the fault of the athletic director.)

I think he's definitely had enough time to do better and I think the buyout could magically appear.  However, it all depends on what fish bite when the bait drops

[Breems]

The case could only be made if Bret could provide tangible evidence that the situation will get better.

The program is regressing, and our recruiting classes for the next couple of years won't come close to fixing the talent gap, so it's game over. He will not succeed here.

Mike Anderson had a slow start here, but signs of progress were there, and recruiting kept improving. That's making a case.

[buldozer]

If Long decides CBB needs more time, he will end up going with the coach.... package deal.

[onebadrubi]

I think that if the defense starts to solidify and show signs of actually coming into its own, that would help.  Also, I think one thing that would open some eyes is if Kelley gets some starts and leads us to some wins.  Those two things would maybe give him more time.  I have liked the Allen boys but the current qb situation hasn't lived up to expectations

Our offense gave up as many points as our defense!!!!  Our defense didn't even play the third qtr did they??? 

[hawgmasta]

He's lost more winnable games here than any coach in recent memory.
He's gone through assistant coaches faster than any coach in recent memory.
He's a terrible game day coach.
I think we're seeing that Bielema had a better chance of winning with Petrino's recruits than he has with his own.
So why in the world would anyone keep him?

This, but I fear that he will end up winning 6 games and Mr. Long Con will say we're slowly building it the right way. I don't even care that much it's turned into such a farce.

[Randy Cavender]

So we as fans may continue to say, 'next year!'

[shown006]

When I clicked on the "Needs More Time Argument"....thought you were talking about Long.

[Hoggish1]

There is no case to be made by Long.  Then it will be the BOT's job to exercise their responsibility toward Jeff Long.  He must be held accountable first before any other action can be taken.

[PygmalionEffect2]

He needs more time because he just now has his own players in the system.  He started with Petrino's recruits and Petrino couldn't recruit.

He needs more time because whenever you don't think he's going to win, he does. See the Florida game last year. Blow out win. See the Auburn game, and Lsu, and Ole Miss shut outs. See the record against Ole Miss, a team that has beaten Bama a few times over the years.

He needs more time b/c he runs a clean program and has GPA at an all time high.

He needs more time b/c off the field he is not embarrassing the program.

He needs more time b/c you can justify every loss he has had b/c the other teams had more talent, or b/c he did not have his own players in the system, something that was out of his control.

He needs more time b/c he was a great coach at Wisconsin and had several 10 win seasons. He needs more time b/c he is still a young energetic coach with a lot to prove.

He needs more time b/c he is still learning the SEC.  He needs more time to implement his new 3-4 defense, the same defense most NFL teams and Saban also uses.

He needs more time b/c all indications are he can turn this thing around and lead us to the promised land.  He needs more time b/c only this year are we completely disgruntled over only 1 explainable loss, South Carolina. We played with TCU for 3.5 quarters and TCU looks like by far the best team in the big10.  We beat TCU at their house last year. The aggies look like the longhorns of old with their talent, and we played an overtime game with them and have played several overtime games with them since he's been here.

He needs more time because he might be able to get it done and take us to new heights.

depressed_fan

Is that you Jeff?



If not, Jeff should read your post to help get his story straight.

[Hoggish1]

You do realize that Jeff Long is very well respected in the AD community?  Outside of football, he's done an outstanding job at the University of Arkansas. 

So, Dave, why is he so respected?  Because he collects $40 million every year from the conference like the other 13 ADs, just for membership in the conference?

[depressed_fan]

Is that you Jeff?



If not, Jeff should read your post to help get his story straight.

Mr. WilsonHog just asked for arguments for Beilema having more time. I don't necessarily agree with anything I said relative to him needing more time. But it's all true.  So now Mr. Wilsonhog needs to refute that.

[Hoggish1]

Cause Bielema was a proven winner at Wisconsin and now he is a proven loser at Arkansas so the two should cancel each other out and he be given another year to break the tie?

That would make sense if he had a Long-type AD at both places.

[TeufelHog]

Top running back left football.
Top receiver out for year.
Top receiver recruit out with injury so far.
Top defensive back out for year.
Have not converted from road grader offensive line to lighter quicker line as fast as we were hoping.
We're adjusting personnel to the 3-4 which will be an advantage once we learn it effectively.
Our 5th year senior coach's son quarterback, who we were counting on to challenge for all SEC, has been a non-factor because of some of the above.

I agree with the above.  Those are serious facts and considerations that have had a significant impact on our season to date.  Here's what I don't like.  I don't like --neither do most of you-- good people losing their jobs, especially after they have busted their ever loving arse trying to rebuild a proud program from scratch after an absolute "train-wreck."  So here's what I'd like to see . . . I want to see Jeff Long put his "money where his mouth is," double-down, and lay'em all on the table.  Here's how . . .

-Call a live press conference with CBB by his side.
-Make it public that CBB gets 2 more years to turn it around, yep, seasons 18 and 19.
-If he doesn't turn it around, not only will CBB contract not be renewed, but JL will resign before the 19 season concludes.
-Additionally, based on performance to date, CBB agrees to an immediate pay-cut at the conclusion of this season to $1.5M per year for the remaining 2 years.
-Finally, if they do not get it turned around in those final 2 years, an external hiring committee will be employed to fill both positions.  JL and CBB agree to "exit stage right" without any buy-out/golden parachute.
-First show of faith/significance, immediately replacing CKA ?with? a "Sean Kugler" type hire.
-Would also like Jerry Jones to be asked to consider AD position on an interim, or permanent, basis.

Everyone has "skin-in-the-game" to include the fan base.  Call this the "Coach Frank Beamer Option" . . . or the "Nuclear Option."  VaTech doubled-down and it worked out with a very patient fan base.  Shows sacrifice and dedication to the program from all concerned. 

There you go . . . let the "roasting" begin.

[Cinco de Hogo]

You do realize that Jeff Long is very well respected in the AD community?  Outside of football, he's done an outstanding job at the University of Arkansas.

Says who? I think this buyout thing is not going to set well with future employers.

[havok]

I'm getting too old for the Wait till next season..or Just needs more time talk we have been hearing for decades.

if in your 5th year, you can't show obvious signs that the program is near a breakout and a consistent top 15 team (Or even top 20).. then it isn't gonna happen. There's nothing I can look at and say.. yea.. at least THAT is what we can build on..

[Porkchop#1]

You do realize that Jeff Long is very well respected in the AD community?  Outside of football, he's done an outstanding job at the University of Arkansas.

Exactly, other than all the sports jazz the guy is the bomb.

[HawgPound]

I'm getting too old for the Wait till next season..or Just needs more time talk we have been hearing for decades.

if in your 5th year, you can't show obvious signs that the program is near a breakout and a consistent top 15 team (Or even top 20).. then it isn't gonna happen. There's nothing I can look at and say.. yea.. at least THAT is what we can build on..

I'm not defending Bielema but define consistent? Arkansas has never been a perennial top 25 team. Since joining the SEC they have only finished in the top 20 five times. 

[(notOM)Rebel123]

Let's suppose for purposes of argument that we finish 5-7 this year (I certainly do not foresee four more wins).

That would mean that after five years Bret Bielema's overall record at Arkansas is 30-33 (.476) and his SEC record is 12-28 (.300).

You are Jeff Long.

Make your case for why he should get a sixth year. Why does he "need more time?"

(My bet is that there isn't one, and the only justification for keeping him is the amount of money it would take to get rid of him...which is one helluva lousy reason to keep a coach with that record, and which is directly the fault of the athletic director.)

Crickets...there is no argument.

[Hogwild]

If he comes back after a 5-7 season, he will be a lame duck coach. No one wants to go into a season knowing this could be it. It would be hard to recruit, hire good assistants, and keep the team together.

What I'm worried about is not just one but two recruiting classes. 2018 & 2019. If we keep him at 5-7, they aren't going to fire him if he goes 7-5 the following season.

The 2018 schedule is extremely easy- 1 FCS opponent, 3 G5 opponents, home games with Ole Miss and Vandy that's automatic bowl eligibility. Then you only need to win one out of Missouri, Miss. State, LSU, A&M, Auburn, and Bama.  This would be a great schedule for a first year HC to have.

[go hogues]

This, but I fear that he will end up winning 6 games

No chance we win 6 games this season, so fear not.

[WilsonHog]

Mr. WilsonHog just asked for arguments for Beilema having more time. I don't necessarily agree with anything I said relative to him needing more time. But it's all true.  So now Mr. Wilsonhog needs to refute that.

My refutation would be simple and succinct: 30-33 and 12-28.

[bville_hog]

He needs more time to see if he can get a real Div 1 assistant coach to come work for him anymore...seems like he hasn't been able to with the last 3-4 hires.

[onebadrubi]

I'm not defending Bielema but define consistent? Arkansas has never been a perennial top 25 team. Since joining the SEC they have only finished in the top 20 five times.

How many times have they finished in the top 25?

[PygmalionEffect2]

Mr. WilsonHog just asked for arguments for Beilema having more time. I don't necessarily agree with anything I said relative to him needing more time. But it's all true.  So now Mr. Wilsonhog needs to refute that.

Yeah I know.  I can follow along.

[HawgPound]

How many times have they finished in the top 25?

Since joining the SEC? Same as top 20. Five times.

[WilsonHog]

I don't believe it will come to my premise in the OP. My belief is that once the critical mass of discontent reaches current levels, it is damn difficult to stem that tide. What you wind up with is a coach who is miserable (you really think Bret's weight gain is suddenly because he discovered he likes to eat?), a fan base almost totally lost, and an AD who doesn't like to be questioned but suddenly finds that to be the norm.

My belief is that Bret would like to stop beating his head against this wall and get a new start somewhere else.

[RedRazorHog]

You do realize that Jeff Long is very well respected in the AD community?  Outside of football, he's done an outstanding job at the University of Arkansas.

"Done an outstanding job at the University of Arkansas"  just because marijuana was sort of leagalized doesn't mean you have to use it!

[depressed_fan]

My refutation would be simple and succinct: 30-33 and 12-28.

"Succinct" is not the term by which we should determine this, in my opinion. This very forum wanted to make the claim in year 3, the Toledo loss was ok b/c he had mostly Petrino's upperclassmen, particulary based on how the remainder of the season transpired. The public outcry from the Toledo game was far less than the SC game.

So you can throw out the record the past 4 years, if you've ever had any argument Petrino's poor recruiting lead to CBB's poor record to this point, which by historical standards is comparable to any coach we've had at any given time.

Then it's just a matter of analyzing the 3 losses this year

Aggies; Over time loss could have went either way, and Aggies played Alabama close.
Tcu; undefeated and blew out top 10 Oklahoma state while a 13 point underdog. Our game was close til middle of 4th.
SC; close first half , a couple turn overs lead to direct touchdowns for them which made the score lopsided on the road.

The man is a great coach who's had some bad luck.

[ballz2thewall]

"Succinct" is not the term by which we should determine this, in my opinion. This very forum wanted to make the claim in year 3, the Toledo loss was ok b/c he had mostly Petrino's upperclassmen, particulary based on how the remainder of the season transpired. The public outcry from the Toledo game was far less than the SC game.

So you can throw out the record the past 4 years, if you've ever had any argument Petrino's poor recruiting lead to CBB's poor record to this point, which by historical standards is comparable to any coach we've had at any given time.

Then it's just a matter of analyzing the 3 losses this year

Aggies; Over time loss could have went either way, and Aggies played Alabama close.
Tcu; undefeated and blew out top 10 Oklahoma state while a 13 point underdog. Our game was close til middle of 4th.
SC; close first half , a couple turn overs lead to direct touchdowns for them which made the score lopsided on the road.

The man is a great coach who's had some bad luck.

nah

[Hawgzinbowlz]

Let's suppose for purposes of argument that we finish 5-7 this year (I certainly do not foresee four more wins).

That would mean that after five years Bret Bielema's overall record at Arkansas is 30-33 (.476) and his SEC record is 12-28 (.300).

You are Jeff Long.

Make your case for why he should get a sixth year. Why does he "need more time?"

(My bet is that there isn't one, and the only justification for keeping him is the amount of money it would take to get rid of him...which is one helluva lousy reason to keep a coach with that record, and which is directly the fault of the athletic director.)

CBB should be fired because he is incapable...Jeff should be fired because of the insane contract extension he saddled the UofA with (see above in bold).

This garbage must stop...

I'm stunned at the incompetence of CBB...He can't get it done.

Clean house...Start with a clean slate and some hope for the fans.

" GO HOGS "

[WilsonHog]

"Succinct" is not the term by which we should determine this, in my opinion. This very forum wanted to make the claim in year 3, the Toledo loss was ok b/c he had mostly Petrino's upperclassmen, particulary based on how the remainder of the season transpired. The public outcry from the Toledo game was far less than the SC game.

So you can throw out the record the past 4 years, if you've ever had any argument Petrino's poor recruiting lead to CBB's poor record to this point, which by historical standards is comparable to any coach we've had at any given time.

Then it's just a matter of analyzing the 3 losses this year

Aggies; Over time loss could have went either way, and Aggies played Alabama close.
Tcu; undefeated and blew out top 10 Oklahoma state while a 13 point underdog. Our game was close til middle of 4th.
SC; close first half , a couple turn overs lead to direct touchdowns for them which made the score lopsided on the road.

The man is a great coach who's had some bad luck.

I would characterize him as a good coach who has gotten in over his head in the SEC. If he was a "great" coach, he was made so by (1) coaching in a state that produces an abundance of talent that fits his philosophy, and (2) the tutelage of Barry Alvarez.

[Rzbakfromwaybak]

What good football school, would give a coach more than 5 years with BB's W-L record here at Arkansas ?  We're not showing improvement. Last 2 years we have regressed.

[EastexHawg]

The fondness and loyalty so many of our fans claim to have for Jeff Long is the most baffling phenomenon I have ever witnessed when it comes to Arkansas athletics.  Why are people so intent on keeping him?  Fans typically care about winning.  What part of 12-30 in the SEC over the last five years, probably soon to be 12-32, can they not bear to give up?

[depressed_fan]

I would characterize him as a good coach who has gotten in over his head in the SEC. If he was a "great" coach, he was made so by (1) coaching in a state that produces an abundance of talent that fits his philosophy, and (2) the tutelage of Barry Alvarez.

So please back that up sir?  "if he was a *great* coach he was made so by.." seems like a lot of conjecture and speculation to me.

Why did Mr. Alvarez keep him around so long? Why did Mr. Alvarez hire him? What's the difference between him now and when Mr. Alvarez hired him?

Is he trying to learn how to recruit and develop players but doing so at his own pace since he DOES NOT coach in a state RIGHT NOW that produces an abundance of talent that fits his philosophy?

[mckinneyhog5]

The fondness and loyalty so many of our fans claim to have for Jeff Long is the most baffling phenomenon I have ever witnessed when it comes to Arkansas athletics.  Why are people so intent on keeping him?  Fans typically care about winning.  What part of 12-30 in the SEC over the last five years, probably soon to be 12-32, can they not bear to give up?

Dude, you might as well get over your JL obsession because he isn't going anywhere. Concentrate on the matter at hand, which is BB.

[WilsonHog]

Dude, you might as well get over your JL obsession because he isn't going anywhere. Concentrate on the matter at hand, which is BB.

I would be cautious about making any blanket statements at this juncture.

[depressed_fan]

I would be cautious about making any blanket statements at this juncture.

me too

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

the only way he should get another year, other than the obvious (buyout) is if he said in his next press conference that he understands where he failed, and now knows how to get the ship righted in X number of weeks, and then PROVES IT.

[snoblind]

Mr. WilsonHog just asked for arguments for Beilema having more time. I don't necessarily agree with anything I said relative to him needing more time. But it's all true.  So now Mr. Wilsonhog needs to refute that.

Actually most of what you said isn't true or just wrong.  They both need to go.

[onebadrubi]

Since joining the SEC? Same as top 20. Five times.

That's hard to believe. 

Off the top of my head

06
10
11
15