The "Needs more Time" Argument

[WilsonHog]

Let's suppose for purposes of argument that we finish 5-7 this year (I certainly do not foresee four more wins).

That would mean that after five years Bret Bielema's overall record at Arkansas is 30-33 (.476) and his SEC record is 12-28 (.300).

You are Jeff Long.

Make your case for why he should get a sixth year. Why does he "need more time?"

(My bet is that there isn't one, and the only justification for keeping him is the amount of money it would take to get rid of him...which is one helluva lousy reason to keep a coach with that record, and which is directly the fault of the athletic director.)

[hoghearted]

I got nothin'

[davehog]

Money, get away
Get a good job with more pay and you're okay
Money, it's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash
New car, caviar, four star daydream
Think I'll buy me a football team

Lyrics from Pink Floyd's Money.....

That buyout is substantial.  That's real money that the athletic dept. is going to have to pay.  I just hope that CBB and his agent are amenable to a much lower buyout and a quiet exit. 

I get that as Razorback fans that we want to win but the money is a real issue.  Whether or not it comes from "big money boosters" or not it doesn't matter.  The number is the number. 

That's what makes this such a dung sandwich. 

[onebadrubi]

The eye test is not able to create a good argument here.  With each passing week we are seeing more things come to fruition that question the true managing skills of this coach.  I'm honestly shocked he's done so well this far keeping things not leaking from within the locker room

[Redhogs]

Let's suppose for purposes of argument that we finish 5-7 this year (I certainly do not foresee four more wins).

That would mean that after five years Bret Bielema's overall record at Arkansas is 30-33 (.476) and his SEC record is 12-28 (.300).

You are Jeff Long.

Make your case for why he should get a sixth year. Why does he "need more time?"

(My bet is that there isn't one, and the only justification for keeping him is the amount of money it would take to get rid of him...which is one helluva lousy reason to keep a coach with that record.)

Seriously?? This again?? There is no case, a 5 year failed experiment...next man up.

[orvillesghost]

The money argument is certainly a valid one but I still have a feeling this is BB's last year and perhaps Long's as well.

I believe the *tipping point* has been reached for them both, all the way from the BOT to the average guy on the street.

[Seebs]

He needs more time to get the buyout lower. His 3,200 BFFs will have a new seat to perch in next year. Lots of distractions before he finds a new home.   

[Wildhog]

There's not a reason, other than Jeff Long's awful buyout.

I'm sure we could knock his buyout down to $11M before Jan 1.  Just tell him that he's being terminated either way, and he can take his eleven million dollars now, or be fired on Jan 1, after signing a class full of kids.  Surely he won't want to do that to the recruits, and takes the $11M.

[davehog]

The money argument is certainly a valid one but I still have a feeling this is BB's last year and perhaps Long's as well.

I believe the *tipping point* has been reached for them both, all the way from the BOT to the average guy on the street.

You do realize that Jeff Long is very well respected in the AD community?  Outside of football, he's done an outstanding job at the University of Arkansas. 

[HoggyCat]

I'm trying to understand why someone not employed at Arkansas would determine what happens with Bielema.

[ricepig]

"Needs more time" to gather up the money.......

[Wildhog]

I'm trying to understand why someone not employed at Arkansas would determine what happens with Bielema.

Who says they would?

[island hog]

I think that if the defense starts to solidify and show signs of actually coming into its own, that would help.  Also, I think one thing that would open some eyes is if Kelley gets some starts and leads us to some wins.  Those two things would maybe give him more time.  I have liked the Allen boys but the current qb situation hasn't lived up to expectations

[EastexHawg]

Who in his right mind would allow Long to make the next hire?  If the idea is that he wouldn't be allowed to do it, there would be a committee or oversight from those above him...why do they need Long?  If you can't trust the AD to hire coaches, you need to find a new AD. 

Long has to go before Bielema, and there is no reasonable argument for keeping Bielema.

[DoubleReedHawgCaller]

Everyone wants more time Wilson, wether that's with a passed love one, a couple trying to save a marriage whatever the circumstances may be but in the end we all have to face the inevitable. Sometimes things work out and sometimes they don't. In Long's case he's already let friendship with Bret and the buyout get himself in a tight spot. Friendship and making good business decision very seldom turn out good for any of the parties involved. I'm pretty sure just about all razorback fans wanted Bret to be successful but you've got to know when it's time to say uncle. It's time and time's up.....

[Atlhogfan1]

Let's suppose for purposes of argument that we finish 5-7 this year (I certainly do not foresee four more wins).

That would mean that after five years Bret Bielema's overall record at Arkansas is 30-33 (.476) and his SEC record is 12-28 (.300).

You are Jeff Long.

Make your case for why he should get a sixth year. Why does he "need more time?"

(My bet is that there isn't one, and the only justification for keeping him is the amount of money it would take to get rid of him...which is one helluva lousy reason to keep a coach with that record, and which is directly the fault of the athletic director.)

?  At 5-7 you can't.  This will turn into the same discussion.  It's time to move on.  I don't know why BB would want a 6th year.  He should be hoping to get to 6 wins or whatever it would take for him to move right into his next job.

[Bacons Rebellion]

Top running back left football.
Top receiver out for year.
Top receiver recruit out with injury so far.
Top defensive back out for year.
Have not converted from road grader offensive line to lighter quicker line as fast as we were hoping.
We're adjusting personnel to the 3-4 which will be an advantage once we learn it effectively.
Our 5th year senior coach's son quarterback, who we were counting on to challenge for all SEC, has been a non-factor because of some of the above.

[menehune]

If we don't make a bowl game this year, which is entirely possible, the writing is certainly on the wall.  It would be a tough sell to even the most die-hard of us who want to believe that Bielema can win and survive to see another year.  I see the same scenario as when Danny Ford was here...good recruiting on paper, but lack of consistent results on the field.  Time will tell, but for now...I just want to be positive for the kids.  There will be plenty of time to figure the rest out. 

What if we lose to Bama and "God Malzahn's Auburn Tigers" but win out from there...probably not going to happen, but if we're hypothesizing, why not? That would make us 7-5 with a five game winning streak at the end of the year and a very favorable schedule next year. 

[311Hog]

i feel like Allen is injured, like his brother was so he cannot push the ball down the field in the short amount of time the OL is giving him, and thus defenses are T'ing off on him and stuffing the run etc.

The only hope IMHO is if Kelley plays and they just go all out with the wildhog, steamboat, etc. etc packages to win a few games down the stretch i think that would buy one more year because of the buy out.

Then next year is great or we are looking for a new coach and possibly AD i suppose.

[hogcard1964]

No clue, but I'm sure some sunshine and lollipopper will provide with one besides the buyout.

[The_Iceman]

Sunshine Rick brought up a better question:

Say Bielema finishes 6-6. He beats CC, Ole Miss, Mizzou, and splits Miss State and LSU. Then he goes and beats a bad 6-6 team in some lower bowl. Making him 7-6.

At that point, do you fire him?

[swineology]

Let's suppose for purposes of argument that we finish 5-7 this year (I certainly do not foresee four more wins).

That would mean that after five years Bret Bielema's overall record at Arkansas is 30-33 (.476) and his SEC record is 12-28 (.300).

You are Jeff Long.

Make your case for why he should get a sixth year. Why does he "need more time?"

(My bet is that there isn't one, and the only justification for keeping him is the amount of money it would take to get rid of him...which is one helluva lousy reason to keep a coach with that record, and which is directly the fault of the athletic director.)

This

[Wildhog]

Sunshine Rick brought up a better question:

Say Bielema finishes 6-6. He beats CC, Ole Miss, Mizzou, and splits Miss State and LSU. Then he goes and beats a bad 6-6 team in some lower bowl. Making him 7-6.

At that point, do you fire him?

Long wouldn't, but yes. 

[Ironhawg]

I don't think either JL or Bielema are going anywhere regardless.  IMHO Jeff Long weathers the storm of this season and brings Bielema back next year.  I have no sources.  That is just how I am feeling this is going to play out.

[moses_007]

The way the program is going, most of us old codgers here will be dead and gone before we get back to winning football games.

[rzrbk4life]

Sunshine Rick brought up a better question:

Say Bielema finishes 6-6. He beats CC, Ole Miss, Mizzou, and splits Miss State and LSU. Then he goes and beats a bad 6-6 team in some lower bowl. Making him 7-6.

At that point, do you fire him?

This is what I fear might happen. He does just enough to have a winning record. I want to still get rid of him if it happens.

[007 License To Squeal]

There's not a reason, other than Jeff Long's awful buyout.

Which means Long's gamble backfired.  Instead of helping to keep a good coach, the buy-out has stuck us with a dud.........

Wilson, I guess you might get the line as I heard this morning on 103.7.  Someone named "Mike" said "Arkansas will NEVER be a winning program. Why fire BB?"

[porkrindjimmy]

Sunshine Rick brought up a better question:

Say Bielema finishes 6-6. He beats CC, Ole Miss, Mizzou, and splits Miss State and LSU. Then he goes and beats a bad 6-6 team in some lower bowl. Making him 7-6.

At that point, do you fire him?

Yep...and you do it right after the Mizzou game.

But you can bet Judy is hoping that he wins 5 in a row.

PRJ

[The Hawg Marshal]

I guess anything is possible, but I don't see 4 wins anywhere on the schedule. I hope I'm wrong.

[007 License To Squeal]

Sunshine Rick brought up a better question:

Say Bielema finishes 6-6. He beats CC, Ole Miss, Mizzou, and splits Miss State and LSU. Then he goes and beats a bad 6-6 team in some lower bowl. Making him 7-6.

At that point, do you fire him?

Oh the irony if he DID fire him then....
Long gave the extension when he was 7-6.......then he fires him at 7-6.....

[Atlhogfan1]

Sunshine Rick brought up a better question:

Say Bielema finishes 6-6. He beats CC, Ole Miss, Mizzou, and splits Miss State and LSU. Then he goes and beats a bad 6-6 team in some lower bowl. Making him 7-6.

At that point, do you fire him?

Can't let him coach the bowl if you are seriously considering firing him.  That bowl shouldn't matter if you have reached that point.

If we are 6-5 heading into the Mizzou game and things look different and some young players are the reason we are winning, then maybe we can have a discussion.  But I don't see it.  And that will be a tough sell after these next two games.  It is why asking these questions now are kind of pointless.  We still have the emotions of the next two losses to get through to see where we are as a fan base.  Going to be even more bat darn crazy after AU. 

[farmhawg]

Who in his right mind would allow Long to make the next hire?  If the idea is that he wouldn't be allowed to do it, there would be a committee or oversight from those above him...why do they need Long?  If you can't trust the AD to hire coaches, you need to find a new AD. 

Long has to go before Bielema, and there is no reasonable argument for keeping Bielema.

[OS2 (SW) Razor Back]

LOL ok dude.

[depressed_fan]

He needs more time because he just now has his own players in the system.  He started with Petrino's recruits and Petrino couldn't recruit.

He needs more time because whenever you don't think he's going to win, he does. See the Florida game last year. Blow out win. See the Auburn game, and Lsu, and Ole Miss shut outs. See the record against Ole Miss, a team that has beaten Bama a few times over the years.

He needs more time b/c he runs a clean program and has GPA at an all time high.

He needs more time b/c off the field he is not embarrassing the program.

He needs more time b/c you can justify every loss he has had b/c the other teams had more talent, or b/c he did not have his own players in the system, something that was out of his control.

He needs more time b/c he was a great coach at Wisconsin and had several 10 win seasons. He needs more time b/c he is still a young energetic coach with a lot to prove.

He needs more time b/c he is still learning the SEC.  He needs more time to implement his new 3-4 defense, the same defense most NFL teams and Saban also uses.

He needs more time b/c all indications are he can turn this thing around and lead us to the promised land.  He needs more time b/c only this year are we completely disgruntled over only 1 explainable loss, South Carolina. We played with TCU for 3.5 quarters and TCU looks like by far the best team in the big10.  We beat TCU at their house last year. The aggies look like the longhorns of old with their talent, and we played an overtime game with them and have played several overtime games with them since he's been here.

He needs more time because he might be able to get it done and take us to new heights.

[GoHogs1091]

The "needs more time" fallacy is what contributed to the 10 year Nutt saga.

At the high-level Power 5 Conference collegiate football level, the "needs more time" fallacy when it is obvious that a change needs to be made is what leads to a divided/fractured fan base, leads to recruiting (the life-blood of a collegiate football program) getting destroyed, leads to lost money, and leads to a loss of program prestige, which a loss of program prestige can make it more difficult to hire the next Head Coach.

[HawgPound]

Who in his right mind would allow Long to make the next hire?  If the idea is that he wouldn't be allowed to do it, there would be a committee or oversight from those above him...why do they need Long?  If you can't trust the AD to hire coaches, you need to find a new AD. 

Long has to go before Bielema, and there is no reasonable argument for keeping Bielema.

Long made a home run hire on paper when he brought Bielema in. Did it work out? F no. That does not change that he brought a proven coach with a winning record to the program.


To answer OP's question....

Jeff Long, "We are doing things the right way."

[rhog1]

Who in his right mind would allow Long to make the next hire?  If the idea is that he wouldn't be allowed to do it, there would be a committee or oversight from those above him...why do they need Long?  If you can't trust the AD to hire coaches, you need to find a new AD. 

Long has to go before Bielema, and there is no reasonable argument for keeping Bielema.

I have always thought Long was a great AD. But if he survives this mess of his making then at minimum he cannot be allowed to set coaches contracts without some oversight. Bielema's contract is totally one sided against the University. The next coach should have some performance based clauses in his buyout untill he starts winning at an acceptable level.

[carolinahogger]

You do realize that Jeff Long is very well respected in the AD community?  Outside of football, he's done an outstanding job at the University of Arkansas.

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

You could make an argument if there was something in BB's recent history that showed he knows how to get things turned around and is capable of doing so.  Nothing that we have seen over the end of last year to midway this year points to that.  Same mistakes game after game after game.

[Calling All Hogs]

Cause Bielema was a proven winner at Wisconsin and now he is a proven loser at Arkansas so the two should cancel each other out and he be given another year to break the tie?

[007 License To Squeal]

Cause Bielema was a proven winner at Wisconsin and now he is a proven loser at Arkansas so the two should cancel each other out and he be given another year to break the tie?

That, Sir, is brilliant!!!  Makes better sense than any other reason I've heard!!!

[moses_007]

You could make an argument if there was something in BB's recent history that showed he knows how to get things turned around and is capable of doing so.  Nothing that we have seen over the end of last year to midway this year points to that.  Same mistakes game after game after game.

Nothing in five seasons remotely hinted that he was capable of winning football here.

[HawgsPolo]

Brett should be let go based on winning percentage alone. I'm sorry

[greenEGnHAWGS]

Is anyone still saying he needs more time...?

[moses_007]

Is anyone still saying he needs more time...?

Mr. Jeff Long is still saying that.

[The OTR]

He's gonna win just enough games, six is my guess, to keep his job. We'll win a bowl game somehow or get a bowl game at least.  He will be back if we win six.

[ImHogginIt]

We've had six years of mediocre and below football. Apathy has almost set in with me. I imagine a large percentage of folks are feeling the same way. If he is back in 2018 there is no way in Hell I will have any interest. My wife has watched me agonize over crappy football all these years and keeps asking why I don't start becoming a fan of a local team like TCU. Well I've actually been following them a little bit this year and hope they continue to do well. Doubt I ever become a true fan after bleeding Razorback red since birth but you never know.

[Jek Tono Porkins]

The only situation where I think the "needs more time" argument would be valid was if he had some serious young talent waiting in the wings or was building a killer recruiting class. Neither of those things are true in Bielema's case.

[PorkSoda]

Sunshine Rick brought up a better question:

Say Bielema finishes 6-6. He beats CC, Ole Miss, Mizzou, and splits Miss State and LSU. Then he goes and beats a bad 6-6 team in some lower bowl. Making him 7-6.

At that point, do you fire him?

if he accomplishes that, then you keep him.  my prediction in the spring was 7 wins.  my predicition has since been cut to 3 wins.

if he goes 3-9.  I'm not sure even his buyout will save his job.  11 mill or 7 mill.  its only a 4 mill difference, and a good hire would make that revenue back 10 fold in future earnings..

[hoglady]

He's lost more winnable games here than any coach in recent memory.
He's gone through assistant coaches faster than any coach in recent memory.
He's a terrible game day coach.
I think we're seeing that Bielema had a better chance of winning with Petrino's recruits than he has with his own.
So why in the world would anyone keep him?