The Great Buyout Thread

[root_hawg]

No

[Swestwill66]

I've been hearing "knee jerk" reaction for quite a few games now.  I think there's a full blown and thoughtful reaction now.

Our knee jerk reactions are as slow as our play action passes.  (5yrs)

[The Kig]

[Quote from: WorfHog on Today at 11:17:46 am
Tennessee was still paying Fulmer until very recently. This idea that we can't afford the buyout is preposterous. Especially if Jeff Long is as good at financial management as we hear he is.]

What's hilarious to me is the constant talk of the university with the SEC affiliation....combined with Jeff Longs ingenious money making and management "we are rich." "One of the most profitable programs in the country thanks 100% to the ingenious of Jeff along."

Then all of the sudden when the buyout is brought up...we can't afford it.

What's even more hilarious is the complete naivete of some that it's about being able vs willing to come up with the money.  Since you were responding to the financial genius Worf, how has firing Phil worked out for Tenner?  Dooley? Kiffin?  And now their own version of Burt that most fans want gone at the end of the season. 

Sure, there are some who could write a check that wouldn't drastically change their net worth, but chasing bad money with bad money without a real guaranteed fix is just dumb.  LSU fired a guy for not winning it all and got the Cajun from Waterboy who can't beat Troy State.  They will be paying Lester for a while.

Not saying Bielema is the answer as coach for the Hogs, just that unless there is some can't miss hire that wants the job and needs an answer before someone else snatches him up... it's not likely to be as simple as opening the checkbook (twice...gotta pay the buyout+ new shiny coaches salary).

[Pig in the Pokey]

No.  And it wouldn't be enough if it were your money either.  Rich people don't often stay rich by burning money.

EXACTLY why trickle down economics are a scam.



carry on, men.

[lamont7906]

I'm curious is the buyout for firings only? Or does it includes overrall decision making too. The reason I ask I just wonder could CBB be head coach in name only but JL gives the authority of decision making to Enos or another coach?

[Inhogswetrust]

That's one of the dumbest questions ever asked on here.

[lamont7906]

Tell me how is it dumb?

[ricepig]

Tell me how is it dumb?

Read it for yourself.


https://www.arktimes.com/media/pdf/bret_bielema_contract.pdf

[lamont7906]

That's why it's called a question, I never read the contract. That's why it's called a question.

[ricepig]

That's why it's called a question, I never read the contract. That's why it's called a question.

I didn't say it was dumb, I just gave you the contract to read.

[1highhog]

There is not a Coach on this staff that is capable to make decisions to bring this team to where it needs to be, forget that idea.  When, (and this will probably be at the end of the season next year), when they fire CBB, they need to hire and established head coach with a great resume and plenty of fire still left in his belly.

[RazorPiggie]

There is not a Coach on this staff that is capable to make decisions to bring this team to where it needs to be, forget that idea.  When, (and this will probably be at the end of the season next year), when they fire CBB, they need to hire and established head coach with a great resume and plenty of fire still left in his belly.

Yea because those guys just grow on trees.

[hogsanity]

First, most coaches in the SEC have large buyouts, it is just part of the deal now. Is BB's larger than most, probably, but when you get into that kind of money is a couple more mil that much?

Second, and this is the one I find the most humor in, we are told here Long was forced to do this or that, made to hire this guy or that guy, yet supposedly he was able to give BB this buyout all on his own without the approval of the BOT or anyone else. That's not how it works. Long has bosses too, and he has to answer to them. HE does not carry around a bunch of blank checks or contracts already signed by the school and then can just write in whatever he wants.

If the powers decide that BB should leave, they will come up with the funds to make it happen, and they thought that out ahead of time. Unless I missed something it is not a lump sum payment either, so it is not like they have to come up with it all at once.

Personally, I dislike the buyouts in any contract, but I understand its just part of it now.

[NaturalStateReb]

I'm just curious about what transpired at the end of the 2014 season that made Long think that a buyout of this magnitude was necessary.  There must have been something else other than a victory over a terrible Texas team in a minor bowl and a couple of wins against fading Ole Miss and LSU teams to cause it. 

I wish someone in the Arkansas sports media will eventually ask that question.

[Piggfoot]

If you have a bad apple you throw it out. You don't leave it in the basket to spoil the other apples.

[VegasHog]

I'm just curious about what transpired at the end of the 2014 season that made Long think that a buyout of this magnitude was necessary.  There must have been something else other than a victory over a terrible Texas team in a minor bowl and a couple of wins against fading Ole Miss and LSU teams to cause it. 

I wish someone in the Arkansas sports media will eventually ask that question.

Exactly! Only acceptable explanation is that Bielema had a similar offer on the table from another Power 5 school.

[Hoggie17]

I'm just curious about what transpired at the end of the 2014 season that made Long think that a buyout of this magnitude was necessary.  There must have been something else other than a victory over a terrible Texas team in a minor bowl and a couple of wins against fading Ole Miss and LSU teams to cause it. 

I wish someone in the Arkansas sports media will eventually ask that question.

Makes me wonder where Long's priorities are.

[East TN HAWG]

Hogsanity, I agree there are a lot more people that should be held accountable for the buyout; however, Long is the face of the buyout.  Folks are angry about the total mismanagement of it.

CBB and Butch Jones have similar records, and are in the similar positions.  The Knoxville News Sentinel report yesterday that CBJ buyout is 8M.  If they want to fire Jones, it will cost them 15M for the buyouts for Jones AND all the staff.  Our HC is 15M alone.  How much more is the buyout of the asst coaches?  We can't trust our administration to make good decisions anymore.  During the Nutt era, we may had the GOB (they had their problems), but nothing like this.     

[NaturalStateReb]

Exactly! Only acceptable explanation is that Bielema had a similar offer on the table from another Power 5 school.

I think this must have been the case, too, but whatever it was, it hasn't made the light of day.  Maybe to Long's credit, he didn't throw his coach under the bus for taking another call. 

Could even have been the NFL, but I'd really like to know.  I just can't see a guy like Long putting those sums in a contract if he didn't feel he had to.

[azhog10]

First, most coaches in the SEC have large buyouts, it is just part of the deal now. Is BB's larger than most, probably, but when you get into that kind of money is a couple more mil that much?

Second, and this is the one I find the most humor in, we are told here Long was forced to do this or that, made to hire this guy or that guy, yet supposedly he was able to give BB this buyout all on his own without the approval of the BOT or anyone else. That's not how it works. Long has bosses too, and he has to answer to them. HE does not carry around a bunch of blank checks or contracts already signed by the school and then can just write in whatever he wants.

If the powers decide that BB should leave, they will come up with the funds to make it happen, and they thought that out ahead of time. Unless I missed something it is not a lump sum payment either, so it is not like they have to come up with it all at once.

Personally, I dislike the buyouts in any contract, but I understand its just part of it now.

If the rest of the SEC jumped off a bridge does that mean we should do it? Because we did. Giving the types of large buyouts would have never prevented us from signing Bret. If it did, then so be it and find another guy. No one is worth the choice of having to go bankrupt or sit through a few more years of losses and empty stadiums. I hope Jeff learns his lesson and doesn't hand out large buyouts any longer unless the guy has actually done something like get us to a BCS game or something.

[Ex-Trumpet]

I'm just curious about what transpired at the end of the 2014 season that made Long think that a buyout of this magnitude was necessary.  There must have been something else other than a victory over a terrible Texas team in a minor bowl and a couple of wins against fading Ole Miss and LSU teams to cause it. 

I wish someone in the Arkansas sports media will eventually ask that question.

...or JL is the greatest salesman UA has ever had.

[NaturalStateReb]

Hogsanity, I agree there are a lot more people that should be held accountable for the buyout; however, Long is the face of the buyout.  Folks are angry about the total mismanagement of it.

CBB and Butch Jones have similar records, and are in the similar positions.  The Knoxville News Sentinel report yesterday that CBJ buyout is 8M.  If they want to fire Jones, it will cost them 15M for the buyouts for Jones AND all the staff.  Our HC is 15M alone.  How much more is the buyout of the asst coaches?  We can't trust our administration to make good decisions anymore.  During the Nutt era, we may had the GOB (they had their problems), but nothing like this.     

Similar situations, but not similar paths.  Jones came to Tennessee after taking Cincinnati to Liberty and Belk Bowl wins over a 3 year tenure in the Big East.  Bielema spent 7 seasons at Wisconsin in the Big 10, went to a bowl game every year, and went to 3 straight Rose Bowls. 

The risk of someone coming after Butch Jones would have been smaller than the risk of someone coming after Bret Bielema.  Which circles around to my point--was someone after Bielema at the end of 2014?  I'd love to know. 

[PharmacistHog]

I'm just curious about what transpired at the end of the 2014 season that made Long think that a buyout of this magnitude was necessary.  There must have been something else other than a victory over a terrible Texas team in a minor bowl and a couple of wins against fading Ole Miss and LSU teams to cause it. 

I wish someone in the Arkansas sports media will eventually ask that question.

I think he just jumped the gun to be honest. After the horrible mess with petrino and jls he thought he stumbled upon a goldmine when we closed well and he simply over-reacted. Thinking we have a great coach who is going to explode into a giant success given the resources we have. Unfortunately for him and us it didnt work out very well. Gambled and lost.

[riccoar]

Or maybe he asked Bielema for some promises, got those, and then made sure the only way His guy was getting canned was if somebody paid dearly.

When you come out and say your program is not a win at all costs program, you are effectively saying sometimes mediocre can be tolerated.  I still doubt Long is even thinking of trying to replace Bert at seasons end.

[Gonzo]

For those talking about offers from other schools, that would only hold water if it was a two way street. It's not. It is far more punitive for the Hogs to get rid of him than for him to leave on his own for another job. That, along with the timing of increasing it so much off a pretty pedestrian season, is what makes it such a onerous decision. Simply not a good business move imo.


Go Hogs!

[1highhog]

Yea because those guys just grow on trees.

You're right, they don't grow on trees.  That's why someone with the inexperience of Jeff Long need not be given the opportunity to hire our next head coach when that opportunity presents itself.

[The_Iceman]

With the TV Money, Bowl Payouts, and Boosters.... $15 million won't be a problem if they believe it is best for the program.

[hassettsportsman]

I agree ICE sans the bowl payout this year!  The search committee(secret society) needs to proceed now!

[texas tush hog]

We should proceed like they did against Nutt. They retired Frank Broyles (who was supporting Nutt then as AD) and Houston saw the writing on the wall and found another job with Ole Miss. Let's send Long packing and see if Bret gets the message. He is young enough to coach several more years so leaving rather than getting canned might have some value to him.

Until Jeffie is gone there is no hope.Come on Nebraska, please help us out.

[Hoggish1]

You're right, they don't grow on trees.  That's why someone with the inexperience of Jeff Long need not be given the opportunity to hire our next head coach when that opportunity presents itself.

Jeff Long looks at a lot of criteria for hiring a football coach but little of it is relevant for the SEC.  We MUST not let him near the table when the next choice for Arkansas football HC is being discussed.

The safest move would be to tell him he's out of the picture for hiring the new coach when/if its time.  He may then realize that an AD job at a different school is in his best interest

[Vantage 8 dude]

If the rest of the SEC jumped off a bridge does that mean we should do it? Because we did. Giving the types of large buyouts would have never prevented us from signing Bret. If it did, then so be it and find another guy. No one is worth the choice of having to go bankrupt or sit through a few more years of losses and empty stadiums. I hope Jeff learns his lesson and doesn't hand out large buyouts any longer unless the guy has actually done something like get us to a BCS game or something.

Short of someone like Saban IMO most coaches have ludicrously generous buyouts. And while I realize that this is the general trend of college football these days, the days of "rolling" (or not) contracts should be severely curtailed. Seems to me that most ADs would take the approach that "You continue to win then your contract will automatically roll. On the other hand, you begin losing and the contract will NOT be extended until you address the issue(s) and the results reflect such". I also agree that short of some other program waiting in the wings the huge contract given CBB several years ago was ridiculous. And given the fact that we had only just begun to show some progress at that time it's very difficult for me to believe that Bret would have been such a hot commodity.

[jkstock04]

First, most coaches in the SEC have large buyouts, it is just part of the deal now. Is BB's larger than most, probably, but when you get into that kind of money is a couple more mil that much?

Second, and this is the one I find the most humor in, we are told here Long was forced to do this or that, made to hire this guy or that guy, yet supposedly he was able to give BB this buyout all on his own without the approval of the BOT or anyone else. That's not how it works. Long has bosses too, and he has to answer to them. HE does not carry around a bunch of blank checks or contracts already signed by the school and then can just write in whatever he wants.

If the powers decide that BB should leave, they will come up with the funds to make it happen, and they thought that out ahead of time. Unless I missed something it is not a lump sum payment either, so it is not like they have to come up with it all at once.

Personally, I dislike the buyouts in any contract, but I understand its just part of it now.

I keep hearing this type of stuff echoed. But I'm not really buying it.

If you have some spare time today you should do some research in other SEC coaches buyouts and see how they compare and maybe you can have a stronger point. To me it's ridiculous the university has to pay 15 million to be rid of Bielema today due to lack of coaching production....but another program can come hire him away for a fraction of that. I think I have seen it was 2 or 3 million.

I'm pretty sure with Petrinos buyout during the Answer the Call stuff it was structured that if another school wanted him they would've had to pay out the ass. The way Bielemas is structured is the opposite. And of course was structured after a 7-6 season.

[dethnode]

At 15 million, you are no longer spending money.  This kind of money is not looked at as income or expense by those making the decisions.  It is looked at much more in terms of an investment, just as the buyout was when it was agreed to.  The PTB have to try and analyze whether the buyout when originally agreed to is going to secure an asset (the coach) for a time being that will produce enough wins, so that the fans will provide a return on the investment of the buyout.  Obviously, in this case, it has not.  And now, another investing decision must be made.  The money is spent, we will pay him 15 million whether he is the coach or not.  The question becomes, at what point, do you cut your losses, and reinvest to attempt to recoup your losses.  You have to consider the sunken costs also invested in other areas of investment, such as the expansion, that money is spent, but need recouping, which can only be done with ticket sales. 

Imagine if you purchased some land, and were going to put a retail store on it, small mom and pop, only get everything you need store in town.  3 days into construction, Walmart starts building across the street.  Now, obviously, you don't want to continue building a competitor for walmart just to be crushed.  So you can continue making the same building, and hope that you can offer something that will be better than walmart (this would be the equivalent of keeping BB), or you can scrap the retail idea, and build a car wash where you wash ppls cars while they shop and try to make something off your sunken cost in the land (fire BB and hire someone that can bring in someone new)

Point is, when you are talking about these sums of money, these people aren't looking at it as money spent or earned, they are looking at it as ROI, and as of now there is little to no return on that 15 million, and unless they want little or no return on the expansion project, they know they have to make a change.

[razorbackfaninar]

First, most coaches in the SEC have large buyouts, it is just part of the deal now. Is BB's larger than most, probably, but when you get into that kind of money is a couple more mil that much?

Second, and this is the one I find the most humor in, we are told here Long was forced to do this or that, made to hire this guy or that guy, yet supposedly he was able to give BB this buyout all on his own without the approval of the BOT or anyone else. That's not how it works. Long has bosses too, and he has to answer to them. HE does not carry around a bunch of blank checks or contracts already signed by the school and then can just write in whatever he wants.

If the powers decide that BB should leave, they will come up with the funds to make it happen, and they thought that out ahead of time. Unless I missed something it is not a lump sum payment either, so it is not like they have to come up with it all at once.

Personally, I dislike the buyouts in any contract, but I understand its just part of it now.

I agree with this 100%. The BOT would have never agreed to the buyout simply on the hope that they would never need to use it. This doesn't mean that they want to pay it, but i am sure there are contingencies in place to allow us to pay it if necessaryThis is just conjecture but I think that such a large buyout was put in place for several reasons.  It looked Bielema was starting to turn a corner and things were on the upswing as there had been legitimate improvement that season.  I think it was recognized though that there were still some significant talent deficits and that while progress was being made both on the field and off that we were still going to be in for one or possibly two sub-par seasons in the near future.  I think that the buyout was a sign of faith in Bielema and the process of growing the program he had put in place at the time and a recognition that we still had a ways to go.  The buyout I think was intended to buy time while a foundation for the future success was being laid. I think it was also to assist in recruiting.  These would all have been reasonable moves except for one thing, Bielema it turns out is not a very good coach.  I guess that is the responsibility of Jeff Long to recognize, but I have to admit I thought he was a good coach as well and I thought he was going to be here long term and really do a good job.  He says all the right things and it seemed like for a little while we were on track.  I supported him for a long time, but now I can't see him coming back from this. 

In my opinion he will probably be let go in January.  The buyout drops to 11 million and we were already going to be on the hook for another 4 million as his annual salary any way.  So we throw an extra 7 million in and be done with the whole ordeal. Then there is the buyout for all the assistants, the potential buyout for the next coach at their current school, and then his salary plus his assistants.  Then if Bielema gets another job, and he likely will as people will discount his time here with " hey it's hard to win at Arkansas"  our costs will be offset by his new salary.             

[East TN HAWG]

Its more than 15M.  You have to include the assistants.  It's probably 20M plus. 

[hogsanity]

Its more than 15M.  You have to include the assistants.  It's probably 20M plus. 

but wouldn't it be reduced if they took a job elsewhere?

[East TN HAWG]

but wouldn't it be reduced if they took a job elsewhere?

Possibly.  Enos, Rhodes, Lunny and Smith would be hired at their current/ similar pay rate.  Everyone it may be hard to find a job because they are not that good.   

[longpig]

Similar situations, but not similar paths.  Jones came to Tennessee after taking Cincinnati to Liberty and Belk Bowl wins over a 3 year tenure in the Big East.  Bielema spent 7 seasons at Wisconsin in the Big 10, went to a bowl game every year, and went to 3 straight Rose Bowls. 

The risk of someone coming after Butch Jones would have been smaller than the risk of someone coming after Bret Bielema.  Which circles around to my point--was someone after Bielema at the end of 2014?  I'd love to know.

There's always someone after a coach who is viewed as  good at the time.  Why do you need specifics?  Look at who was on the carousel at that time.

[longpig]

Jeff Long looks at a lot of criteria for hiring a football coach but little of it is relevant for the SEC.  We MUST not let him near the table when the next choice for Arkansas football HC is being discussed.

The safest move would be to tell him he's out of the picture for hiring the new coach when/if its time.  He may then realize that an AD job at a different school is in his best interest

Morning of the big decision you penny his door and I'll let the air out of his tires.  Somebody else drop a tree over his driveway and take his parking spot. 

[hogsanity]

Morning of the big decision you penny his door and I'll let the air out of his tires.  Somebody else drop a tree over his driveway and take his parking spot. 

You guys act like he is the only person involved in the hiring process.

[hogblitz]

Well, AD's like to build things, since they aren't coaching, it's their victories. As you well know, Long has a long list on his plan, paying the buyout and the NEZ bonds will curtail his plans on BWA, Baum, and replacing Barnhill. Again, his contract expires in June of 2018, so, he's the easiest to replace.

Rice, do you think CBB will be back for year 6? 

[ricepig]

Rice, do you think CBB will be back for year 6? 

As of today, I'd say no, but the rest of the season will have to play out. The money can be found to fund the buyout, but that kind of money usually comes with strings attached, and I think we all can agree, that isn't Long's style. Are those strings, his removal too, possibly. I can imagine if it's coming from some of those who laughed in his face when asked back in late 2015/early 2016 to contribute $3m for a Founder's Suite, then strings will definitely be there.

[1highhog]

We all can voice our displeasure in the results of our current football coach but has the real decision makers seen enough yet. That's the question that needs answered. Money will drive Jeff Long or his boss to either make changes or ride the status quo..............

I thought this was going to be a thread about asking Hogville to start contributing to the "buying out Bielema's contract".

[HotlantaHog]

First, most coaches in the SEC have large buyouts, it is just part of the deal now. Is BB's larger than most, probably, but when you get into that kind of money is a couple more mil that much?

Second, and this is the one I find the most humor in, we are told here Long was forced to do this or that, made to hire this guy or that guy, yet supposedly he was able to give BB this buyout all on his own without the approval of the BOT or anyone else. That's not how it works. Long has bosses too, and he has to answer to them. HE does not carry around a bunch of blank checks or contracts already signed by the school and then can just write in whatever he wants.

If the powers decide that BB should leave, they will come up with the funds to make it happen, and they thought that out ahead of time. Unless I missed something it is not a lump sum payment either, so it is not like they have to come up with it all at once.

Personally, I dislike the buyouts in any contract, but I understand its just part of it now.

I think the initial buyout was not the problem. The problem was raising the buyout in 2015 after the Texas victory -- after as 7-6 season and after a 10-15 record under Bielema (2-14 in the SEC.)

[parallaxpig]

I think the initial buyout was not the problem. The problem was raising the buyout in 2015 after the Texas victory -- after as 7-6 season and after a 10-15 record under Bielema (2-14 in the SEC.)

Now that DemGaz is reporting buyout half of what we thought, I bet Foundation bean counters have been burning the mid night oil.

[(notOM)Rebel123]

Now that DemGaz is reporting buyout half of what we thought, I bet Foundation bean counters have been burning the mid night oil.

No doubt!