Official 2016 Masters week thread

[Jackrabbit Hog]

rhetorical?  JD bets what color his deuce is


PP

Considering all the stuff he's put in his body over the years, that's probably not a given.

[Pulled(PP)pork]

Considering all the stuff he's put in his body over the years, that's probably not a given.

exactly, he's a risk taker, lol



PP

[GoHogs1091]

One of the things that was noticeable about this Masters was that some of the ball striking was not consistently good.  There was quite a lot of tee shots off of the fairway, and approach shots into spots on the greens where it is not a good place to be on the green.   It might have been a result of the high wind gusts on Thursday thru Saturday (the wind was the worst on Friday and Saturday).

The Pros had better get their ball striking to a consistently better level.  Oakmont is one of the best tee-to-green courses in the world, and it is much more demanding on the tee shots.  On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being the least demanding on the tee shots, and 10 being the most demanding on the tee shots, Augusta National is probably a 6, whereas Oakmont is probably a 9. 

[majestic]

One of the things that was noticeable about this Masters was that some of the ball striking was not consistently good.  There was quite a lot of tee shots off of the fairway, and approach shots into spots on the greens where it is not a good place to be on the green.   It might have been a result of the high wind gusts on Thursday thru Saturday (the wind was the worst on Friday and Saturday).

The Pros had better get their ball striking to a consistently better level.  Oakmont is one of the best tee-to-green courses in the world, and it is much more demanding on the tee shots.  On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being the least demanding on the tee shots, and 10 being the most demanding on the tee shots, Augusta National is probably a 6, whereas Oakmont is probably a 9. 

Shut up.

[ricepig]

Shut up.

Lol.....that was a 10!

[clutch]

Here we go. It's going to be a long couple months.

[GoHogs1091]

Shut up.

Out of all of the players who made the cut in 2007 at the U.S. Open at Oakmont, here was the total number of under Par rounds shot over the final 2 rounds.

A total of 3 rounds under Par were shot over the last 2 rounds.

A total of only 8 rounds under Par were shot over the entire tournament.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Out of all of the players who made the cut in 2007 at the U.S. Open at Oakmont, here was the total number of under Par rounds shot over the final 2 rounds.

A total of 3 rounds under Par were shot over the last 2 rounds.

A total of only 8 rounds under Par were shot over the entire tournament.

Simply proves it was a tricked up course.

[ricepig]

Simply proves it was a tricked up course.

And I thought Augusta National was a joke.

[GoHogs1091]

Simply proves it was a tricked up course.

Oakmont doesn't get tricked up by the USGA.  There is no need for it to be tricked up.

The difficulty of it comes from the movement of the land that it sits on, the design of the holes from tee to the green, and the green complexes (a lot of contour).  There are some people who feel it has the best set of greens in the United States.  I don't feel that it is the best set of greens in the United States, but it could very well be the 3rd best set of greens in the U.S.

[clutch]

Oakmont doesn't get tricked up by the USGA.  There is no need for it to be tricked up.

The difficulty of it comes from the movement of the land that it sits on, the design of the holes from tee to the green, and the green complexes (a lot of contour).  There are some people who feel it has the best set of greens in the United States.  I don't feel that it is the best set of greens in the United States, but it could very well be the 3rd best set of greens in the U.S.

I'm trying to figure out how you develop all these opinions without actually playing the courses.

[GoHogs1091]

I'm trying to figure out how you develop all these opinions without actually playing the courses.

It is common knowledge regarding the difficulty, so I don't need to play it to form an opinion.

Here is what Tiger Woods said about the greens at Oakmont right before the 2007 U.S. Open.

"You're really going to have to play well from tee to green, and then the fun really begins," Woods said. "They are by far the most difficult greens I've ever putted. I thought Winged Foot was pretty tough. Augusta's pretty tough. But both of those courses have flat spots or shelves where they put the pins. I'm still trying to figure out where a flat shelf is here. The greens are all tilted."

http://www.toledoblade.com/DaveHackenberg/2007/06/14/Oakmont-just-how-monstrous.html

[ricepig]

It is common knowledge regarding the difficulty, so I don't need to play it to form an opinion.

Here is what Tiger Woods said about the greens at Oakmont right before the 2007 U.S. Open.

"You're really going to have to play well from tee to green, and then the fun really begins," Woods said. "They are by far the most difficult greens I've ever putted. I thought Winged Foot was pretty tough. Augusta's pretty tough. But both of those courses have flat spots or shelves where they put the pins. I'm still trying to figure out where a flat shelf is here. The greens are all tilted."

http://www.toledoblade.com/DaveHackenberg/2007/06/14/Oakmont-just-how-monstrous.html

So, you let others form your opinions, does this cover all the spectrums of life? Sounds like a robot......

[GoHogs1091]

So, you let others form your opinions, does this cover all the spectrums of life? Sounds like a robot......

Nope, but the Pros may have a chance because apparently average golfers stand a fighting chance at Oakmont.

Here is what an about 10-handicapper said after he played the course the day after Angel Cabrera won in 2007.  The person in this article said he was 18 over Par after 16 holes (the person couldn't finish all 18 holes due to lightning).

http://www.worldgolf.com/column/us-open-oakmont-average-golfers-stand-a-chance-5607.htm

Here is one of the Readers Comments from the Readers Comments/Reviews section that is immediately below the above linked article.

"It is way harder thn he said. He played it from the member tees which is about 1000 yards shorter than the tips. I have played it so I know. Also, they cut the rough befoe the "crybabies" got there. the usga was afraid the pros would not finish. they also watered the greens!"

[ricepig]

Nope, but the Pros may have a chance because apparently average golfers stand a fighting chance at Oakmont.

Here is what an about 10-handicapper said after he played the course the day after Angel Cabrera won in 2007.  The person in this article said he was 18 over Par after 16 holes (the person couldn't finish all 18 holes due to lightning).

http://www.worldgolf.com/column/us-open-oakmont-average-golfers-stand-a-chance-5607.htm

Here is one of the Readers Comments from the Readers Comments/Reviews section that is immediately below the above linked article.

"It is way harder thn he said. He played it from the member tees which is about 1000 yards shorter than the tips. I have played it so I know. Also, they cut the rough befoe the "crybabies" got there. the usga was afraid the pros would not finish. they also watered the greens!"

Blah blah blah, I care not. More than likely that was written by some poster on HV, probably by HRV, OTR, or any of their duplicate accounts.

[GoHogs1091]

Blah blah blah, I care not. More than likely that was written by some poster on HV, probably by HRV, OTR, or any of their duplicate accounts.

You cared enough to reply. 

The bottom line is that the Pros will have to play a more complete and exacting form of golf at Oakmont than they had to play at Augusta National last week.

[clutch]

You cared enough to reply. 

The bottom line is that the Pros will have to play a more complete and exacting form of golf at Oakmont than they had to play at Augusta National last week.

But guess what, they still all have to play the exact same course. It doesn't matter if the greens are made of concrete. The best golfers in the world will still more than likely rise to the top. It doesn't matter if the winning score is -12 or +12. That's what you don't seem to get. Each major is set up differently.

There's the pressure and prestige of winning at Augusta, sometimes scoring is low, sometimes not. There's the grind it out style of the US Open where scores are usually high, There's the battle against the weather conditions at the Open, then there's the PGA (who cares). They are all exciting and great for different reasons. They all have one thing in common though, they usually are won by one of the top players in the world. Not always the case, but most times it is someone near the top. They are all hard to win for different reasons too.

I just can't figure out your agenda to belittle on of the greatest golf courses in the world, Augusta National, every chance you get. Nobody on here is trying to say that Oakmont isn't a great course. If it hosts a major championship, it's a great course. Simple as that.

And all these players quotes prove nothing. Every week, no matter the venue, you can find a quote from one of the players saying how tough the greens are, or how tough of a driving course it is, or how important good iron play is. That's just what they do. It makes their good rounds sound even better and their bad rounds sound excusable.

[GoHogs1091]

I just can't figure out your agenda to belittle on of the greatest golf courses in the world, Augusta National, every chance you get. Nobody on here is trying to say that Oakmont isn't a great course. If it hosts a major championship, it's a great course. Simple as that.

There is truly only 1 iconic golf course in the world, and that is The Old Course at St. Andrews.

Regarding Augusta National, it is really the Masters tournament that has made the golf course, not the golf course that has made the Masters tournament.  If there had not been 80 years of Masters tournaments there, then it is highly doubtful the course would be ranked as high as it is ranked.

There have been people who got on to play the Augusta National course who have said that they were somewhat disappointed.  They said that while there is a lot of history there, they felt the course wasn't as good as they expected it would be.

A few years ago, Golf Digest did a Survey with anonymous PGA Tour players.  One of the questions in the Survey pertained to the Augusta National Golf course.  One Tour player called the course "overrated."

[GoHogs1091]

I just can't figure out your agenda to belittle on of the greatest golf courses in the world, Augusta National, every chance you get.

Some other points I want to make.  I am just pointing out some flaws about the Augusta National course that rarely get addressed by the golfing community.  Their course in Augusta, Georgia is simply not the "end-all-be-all."

Their course does have some positives.  The ANGC Front 9 is highlighted by the green at hole 3, the green at hole 4, and the green at hole 6 that were worked on by Perry Maxwell.  Those greens are not an entirely Maxwell green, but he altered the original greens on those holes.  The ANGC Front 9 is also highlighted by the green at hole 7 and the green at hole 9.  Those 2 greens are an entire Maxwell green.  He built an entirely new green on those 2 holes.

The ANGC Back 9 is highlighted by the green at hole 10.  The green at hole 10 is an entire Maxwell green that he built.  He relocated the green on hole 10 and he built a new green.

Another positive is I feel that the ANGC course has 2 world class holes, those two being hole 10 and hole 13.  Hole 10 primarily because of the Maxwell green, and Hole 13 because of the shape of the hole and also because golfers get tested on the tee shot and the approach shot.  Regrettably, it looks like they may be going to change hole 13 again by adding length, which in my viewpoint is not needed.

To be frank, I don't want to play Augusta National.  There are only 4 non Perry Maxwell original designed courses that I want to play, those 4 being the following.

Merion (East Course)   designed by Hugh Wilson in 1912 (there has been some doubt raised whether Wilson designed the East Course at Merion)  Has hosted several U.S. Opens

Donald Ross Course at French Lick Indiana   designed by Donald Ross in 1917   restoration work done in 2005 by the Donald Ross Society   Hosted the 1924 PGA Championship

Pasatiempo   designed by Alister MacKenzie in 1929    restoration work completed in 2007 by Tom Doak   the following is from the Pasatiempo website.

"Even though MacKenzie also designed Augusta National and Cypress Point, Pasatiempo was his favorite layout and where he made his American home, which still borders the sixth fairway."

Omaha Country Club    designed by William Langford and Theodore Moreau in 1927   greens completely rebuilt by Perry Maxwell in 1951  Maxwell also shortened hole 5, lengthened hole 6, lengthened hole 10, and relocated the green on hole 12    Hosted the 2013 U.S. Senior Open

Even though I don't want to play Augusta National, there is something I would like pertaining to the ANGC.  I would like to obtain a copy of their sophisticated computerized mapping of the green at hole 7, the green at hole 9, and the green at hole 10.  Those 3 ANGC greens are the Perry Maxwell greens that are entirely his green.  I want a copy of their computerized mapping of those 3 Maxwell greens so that I can study what he did regarding his design of those 3 greens.  Maxwell is universally regarded as the best green designer of all-time. 

The ANGC have sophisticated computerized mapped their greens in case they need to rebuild them so that they can get them rebuilt exactly back (several high end Country Clubs/Golf Clubs have probably also done this type of computerized mapping).  I know the ANGC has done this because a few years ago, they rebuilt their green at hole 14 during the year time between Masters tournaments, and it was stated that they rebuilt it using a sophisticated computerized map of the green.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

There is truly only 1 iconic golf course in the world, and that is The Old Course at St. Andrews.

Pretty sure Perry Maxwell designed those greens too.

[Hawgndaaz]

Some other points I want to make.  I am just pointing out some flaws about the Augusta National course that rarely get addressed by the golfing community.  Their course in Augusta, Georgia is simply not the "end-all-be-all."

Their course does have some positives.  The ANGC Front 9 is highlighted by the green at hole 3, the green at hole 4, and the green at hole 6 that were worked on by Perry Maxwell.  Those greens are not an entirely Maxwell green, but he altered the original greens on those holes.  The ANGC Front 9 is also highlighted by the green at hole 7 and the green at hole 9.  Those 2 greens are an entire Maxwell green.  He built an entirely new green on those 2 holes.

The ANGC Back 9 is highlighted by the green at hole 10.  The green at hole 10 is an entire Maxwell green that he built.  He relocated the green on hole 10 and he built a new green.

Another positive is I feel that the ANGC course has 2 world class holes, those two being hole 10 and hole 13.  Hole 10 primarily because of the Maxwell green, and Hole 13 because of the shape of the hole and also because golfers get tested on the tee shot and the approach shot.  Regrettably, it looks like they may be going to change hole 13 again by adding length, which in my viewpoint is not needed.

To be frank, I don't want to play Augusta National.  There are only 4 non Perry Maxwell original designed courses that I want to play, those 4 being the following.

Merion (East Course)   designed by Hugh Wilson in 1912 (there has been some doubt raised whether Wilson designed the East Course at Merion)  Has hosted several U.S. Opens

Donald Ross Course at French Lick Indiana   designed by Donald Ross in 1917   restoration work done in 2005 by the Donald Ross Society   Hosted the 1924 PGA Championship

Pasatiempo   designed by Alister MacKenzie in 1929    restoration work completed in 2007 by Tom Doak   the following is from the Pasatiempo website.

"Even though MacKenzie also designed Augusta National and Cypress Point, Pasatiempo was his favorite layout and where he made his American home, which still borders the sixth fairway."

Omaha Country Club    designed by William Langford and Theodore Moreau in 1927   greens completely rebuilt by Perry Maxwell in 1951  Maxwell also shortened hole 5, lengthened hole 6, lengthened hole 10, and relocated the green on hole 12    Hosted the 2013 U.S. Senior Open

Even though I don't want to play Augusta National, there is something I would like pertaining to the ANGC.  I would like to obtain a copy of their sophisticated computerized mapping of the green at hole 7, the green at hole 9, and the green at hole 10.  Those 3 ANGC greens are the Perry Maxwell greens that are entirely his green.  I want a copy of their computerized mapping of those 3 Maxwell greens so that I can study what he did regarding his design of those 3 greens.  Maxwell is universally regarded as the best green designer of all-time. 

The ANGC have sophisticated computerized mapped their greens in case they need to rebuild them so that they can get them rebuilt exactly back (several high end Country Clubs/Golf Clubs have probably also done this type of computerized mapping).  I know the ANGC has done this because a few years ago, they rebuilt their green at hole 14 during the year time between Masters tournaments, and it was stated that they rebuilt it using a sophisticated computerized map of the green.

[ricepig]

Pretty sure Perry Maxwell designed those greens too.

Perry liked tennis better, golf was just a hobby.

[clutch]

Perry liked tennis better, golf was just a hobby.

Heard he designed some clay courts that are regarded as the best set of clay courts in the world

[ricepig]

Heard he designed some clay courts that are regarded as the best set of clay courts in the world

Interesting, could you elaborate on that with a 1000 word meaningless post?

[clutch]

Interesting, could you elaborate on that with a 1000 word meaningless post?

Why yes, yes I can.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Man, I'd give GoHogs' left nut to play Oakmont.

[ricepig]

Man, I'd give GoHogs' left nut to play Oakmont.

I shot a 68 back in 2008 there, I thought the greens were slow.

[GolfNut57]

I shot a 68 back in 2008 there, I thought the greens were slow.

68? Why did you quit after just the nine holes? Surely for thew price you paid you would have gone ahead with the back nine. 

[ricepig]

68? Why did you quit after just the nine holes? Surely for thew price you paid you would have gone ahead with the back nine. 

It was raining.......

[Jackrabbit Hog]

It was raining.......

I'd have kept on playing.  I didn't think the heavy stuff was gonna come down for quite awhile.

[ricepig]

I'd have kept on playing.  I didn't think the heavy stuff was gonna come down for quite awhile.

Yeah, but how did that play out?

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Yeah, but how did that play out?

Something about rat farts, perhaps.

[GoHogs1091]

Man, I'd give GoHogs' left nut to play Oakmont.

A lot of people want to play Oakmont, but after they play it many decide that they don't want to again.

This upcoming U.S. Open is going to be interesting, primarily to see how the Pros do putting on Oakmont's greens.  I have watched a lot of tournament golf on T.V. over the years, and the most flummoxed/confused I have seen the Pros on greens have been at the following.

1998 at The Olympic Club (Lake Course)

2001 at Southern Hills

2007 at Oakmont

2013 at Merion (East Course)

2014 at Pinehurst No. 2

Out of the above, the 2 where the Pros had the most trouble was at Merion (the most trouble) and then Oakmont.  The greens on the East Course at Merion and the greens at Oakmont just totally had them baffled.  There was a tremendous amount of missed putts at those 2 courses, but at Merion the greens didn't appear to be that off the charts fast because of all of the rain that occurred at the beginning of the week of the 2013 U.S. Open, so fast green speed wasn't the cause.  At Oakmont, fast green speed played a huge part.

[Pulled(PP)pork]

One of the things that was noticeable about this Masters was that some of the ball striking was not consistently good.  There was quite a lot of tee shots off of the fairway, and approach shots into spots on the greens where it is not a good place to be on the green.   It might have been a result of the high wind gusts on Thursday thru Saturday (the wind was the worst on Friday and Saturday).

The Pros had better get their ball striking to a consistently better level.  Oakmont is one of the best tee-to-green courses in the world, and it is much more demanding on the tee shots.  On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being the least demanding on the tee shots, and 10 being the most demanding on the tee shots, Augusta National is probably a 6, whereas Oakmont is probably a 9.

it was those damn PM greens, they intimidated the whole freaking field


PP

[Pulled(PP)pork]

One of the things that was noticeable about this Masters was that some of the ball striking was not consistently good.  There was quite a lot of tee shots off of the fairway, and approach shots into spots on the greens where it is not a good place to be on the green.   It might have been a result of the high wind gusts on Thursday thru Saturday (the wind was the worst on Friday and Saturday).

The Pros had better get their ball striking to a consistently better level.  Oakmont is one of the best tee-to-green courses in the world, and it is much more demanding on the tee shots. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being the least demanding on the tee shots, and 10 being the most demanding on the tee shots, Augusta National is probably a 6, whereas Oakmont is probably a 9.

you sure you don't have that backwards?  maybe we should switch it, like switching the 9's at Augusta


PP

[Pulled(PP)pork]

Oakmont doesn't get tricked up by the USGA.  There is no need for it to be tricked up.

The difficulty of it comes from the movement of the land that it sits on, the design of the holes from tee to the green, and the green complexes (a lot of contour).  There are some people who feel it has the best set of greens in the United States.  I don't feel that it is the best set of greens in the United States, but it could very well be the 3rd best set of greens in the U.S.

no wonder it's tough, the land moves.......even the greatest golfers in the world can't score on moving land.


PP

[GolfNut57]

no wonder it's tough, the land moves.......even the greatest golfers in the world can't score on moving land.


PP

I agree. I hate it when the greens move right after I have hit my approach shot. Them suckers move left, right, fade back or come closer once the ball is in the air. It's like they are afraid my ball might hurt them or something. 

[GoHogs1091]

you sure you don't have that backwards?  maybe we should switch it, like switching the 9's at Augusta


PP

There are several positives if they would flip the 9s at Augusta National.

It would be cool to have the round start on the current #10 and the round finish on the current #9.  Some of the best golf action last week occurred on current #9.  It would be great to have current #9 as the finishing hole.

It would be cool to have a Par 5, current #8, as the 17th hole.  A Par 5 as the 17th hole would allow for excitement and movement on the leader board right at the end of the rounds and also right at the end of the tournament.

If current #12 was on the Front 9, and regarding mistakes like incurred by Jordan Spieth on that hole, there would be an enabling for there to be more of an opportunity of more holes to recover from those mistakes, and therefore, the player salvage their round.

[clutch]

There are several positives if they would flip the 9s at Augusta National.

It would be cool to have the round start on the current #10 and the round finish on the current #9.  Some of the best golf action last week occurred on current #9.  It would be great to have current #9 as the finishing hole.

It would be cool to have a Par 5, current #8, as the 17th hole.  A Par 5 as the 17th hole would allow for excitement and movement on the leader board right at the end of the rounds and also right at the end of the tournament.

If current #12 was on the Front 9, and regarding mistakes like incurred by Jordan Spieth on that hole, there would be an enabling for there to be more of an opportunity of more holes to recover from those mistakes, and therefore, the player salvage their round.

I don't think Spieth makes those mistakes if #12 was on the front 9. He thought he had it in the bag and let off the gas. Tried to play it safe when he should have just kept playing his game. If that's hole 3, he is still focused.

[GoHogs1091]

I don't think Spieth makes those mistakes if #12 was on the front 9. He thought he had it in the bag and let off the gas. Tried to play it safe when he should have just kept playing his game. If that's hole 3, he is still focused.

Spieth might still have if #12 was on the Front 9 because it is now the 2nd time he has tried to cut the ball into that right side of the green Sunday pin location on #12.  He did the same thing in the final round in 2014 (when he lost to Gerry Watson).  Same result for Spieth in 2014 (ball in water).

Jack Nicklaus once said that if he (Nicklaus) ever hit his tee shot over to the right side of #12 green where that Sunday pin location is, then it was a mis-hit.

[Pulled(PP)pork]

There are several positives if they would flip the 9s at Augusta National.

It would be cool to have the round start on the current #10 and the round finish on the current #9.  Some of the best golf action last week occurred on current #9.  It would be great to have current #9 as the finishing hole.

It would be cool to have a Par 5, current #8, as the 17th hole.  A Par 5 as the 17th hole would allow for excitement and movement on the leader board right at the end of the rounds and also right at the end of the tournament.

If current #12 was on the Front 9, and regarding mistakes like incurred by Jordan Spieth on that hole, there would be an enabling for there to be more of an opportunity of more holes to recover from those mistakes, and therefore, the player salvage their round.

The Masters = "cool".....yeah, try selling that one



PP