Playing the best players

[Etowah]

I am as ticked off as any other fan and I have my issues with things coaches do...that is part of being a fan.

With that said, the most asinine criticism of a coach is that he has better players sitting the bench.

That is about as ridiculous as saying.."their players wanted more than ours". 

Those are two common statements fans make that show fans to be complete dummies when it comes to coaching and playing.

These coaches put the players out there that give the team the best chance to win the game.  They don't play favorites. 

Sure...players have to buy in, do things the right way, work hard, go to class, blah blah blah....but the players who do things the right way off the field also are more likely to help you win the game.

If Brian Wallace..or insert any other name here...was better than the player in front of him..BB would play him.

[DLUXHOG]

Ex-Lax might help you out...

[Etowah]

I think you can clearly look at actual conference games last season to see Wallace's quality and then look at the mess that is Clary and Ramirez and determine that isn't the case.

You can make this same argument at RB, WR, TE, KR/PR

So you watch the game film and grade the o linemen?  Impressive.

[Jonbo]

No, actually, the coach doesn't put the best players on the field, necessarily. He puts who he thinks are the best players. Others are free to disagree. The disagreement has grown more vociferous in this case as the coach's record at Arkansas has become fairly extensive. When it's a losing one in the SEC, a losing one so far this season, and the coach has been sitting once highly recruited seniors in favor of true freshmen at positions at which true freshmen are rarely started, the griping about his decision making becomes fairly understandable.

[bvillepig]

I wonder how good Hammond's is ?  I would like to see.

[hawgon]

I am as ticked off as any other fan and I have my issues with things coaches do...that is part of being a fan.

With that said, the most asinine criticism of a coach is that he has better players sitting the bench.

That is about as ridiculous as saying.."their players wanted more than ours". 

Those are two common statements fans make that show fans to be complete dummies when it comes to coaching and playing.

These coaches put the players out there that give the team the best chance to win the game.  They don't play favorites. 

Sure...players have to buy in, do things the right way, work hard, go to class, blah blah blah....but the players who do things the right way off the field also are more likely to help you win the game.

If Brian Wallace..or insert any other name here...was better than the player in front of him..BB would play him.

This is demonstrably untrue in the case of Froholdt last year.

[thebignasty]

I like the guys that can see that dudes 'arent enthusiastic' or that the players 'looked happier' or 'played harder' when the backup came in.



Total joke.

[HogHomer]

This is demonstrably untrue in the case of Froholdt last year.

Depends how you want to look at it. He is arguably our best run blocker outside of Ragnow. And was last season as well. Do you give up his advantage in run blocking to put a guy in who may be well rounded but doesn't do anything great?

[hawgon]

Depends how you want to look at it. He is arguably our best run blocker outside of Ragnow. And was last season as well. Do you give up his advantage in run blocking to put a guy in who may be well rounded but doesn't do anything great?

His run blocking really helped in all those trips in the red zone where we came up empty.

[HogHomer]

His run blocking really helped in all those trips in the red zone where we came up empty.

I must have forgotten we only have froholdt on the oline when we get into the red zone.

[forrest city joe]

I am as ticked off as any other fan and I have my issues with things coaches do...that is part of being a fan.

With that said, the most asinine criticism of a coach is that he has better players sitting the bench.

That is about as ridiculous as saying.."their players wanted more than ours". 

Those are two common statements fans make that show fans to be complete dummies when it comes to coaching and playing.

These coaches put the players out there that give the team the best chance to win the game.  They don't play favorites. 

Sure...players have to buy in, do things the right way, work hard, go to class, blah blah blah....but the players who do things the right way off the field also are more likely to help you win the game.

If Brian Wallace..or insert any other name here...was better than the player in front of him..BB would play him.

Here is my bottom line to your post.i don't trust his judgment anymore.D.Stewart is not better than TJ Hamond in my opinion. and don't get me started again on some of the OL decisions.why was Nance listen behind Stewart in the first place?seems clear to me that Nance is better.Cantrell at TE over CJ and Patton.really? i do not trust his judgment anymore. it's as simple as that.

[hawgon]

I must have forgotten we only have froholdt on the oline when we get into the red zone.

Not surprising as that you forgot all those times where Froholdt single handidly let his man through untouched to murder Allen.

[HogHomer]

Not surprising as that you forgot all those times where Froholdt single handidly let his man through untouched to murder Allen.

I also so many times where he ran SEC lineman into the dirt on run plays but it shouldnt be surprising you don't mention that at all. Just bagging on a player.

[PygmalionEffect2]

Some posters on here seem to have trouble differentiating between a lineman that misses his assignment and allows a QB hurry or a sack with a lineman that allows a QB hurry or a sack whether he plays his assignment or not.



big difference

[devildoghawg]

There is such a thing as a game time player.  Some players don't really shine until they are under the pressure of a real live game.

[PygmalionEffect2]

Not surprising as that you forgot all those times where Froholdt single handidly let his man through untouched to murder Allen.

Why do you keep talking about last year?

Froholdt has played winning football this year and yet you keep bringing his name up as if he's part of the problem.

He's not.  He's our second best lineman, and that's saying a lot when your best one is going to be consensus AA.

[hawgon]

I also so many times where he ran SEC lineman into the dirt on run plays but it shouldnt be surprising you don't mention that at all. Just bagging on a player.

I'm not bagging on him at all.  He had no business starting in the most cerebral position in th toughest league this side of the NFL having NEVER played the position before.  It wasn't his fault.

[hawgon]

Why do you keep talking about last year?

Froholdt has played winning football this year and yet you keep bringing his name up as if he's part of the problem.

He's not.  He's our second best lineman, and that's saying a lot when your best one is going to be consensus AA.

Because Bert played an inferior player.

[PygmalionEffect2]

With that said, the most asinine criticism of a coach is that he has better players sitting the bench.

That is about as ridiculous as saying.."their players wanted more than ours".

OP should buy a TV and watch the game, concentrating on the o-line play, watch the pass plays over and over again in slow motion.

When you see our lineman get repeatedly run over by the opposing team's DT to the point that it looks like he's not even slowing him down, and this happens repeatedly, and the QB gets hurried and throws incompletions and gets sacked because of it....

that's a bad play for us when that happens.

Football is a very complicated game and I don't expect you to understand it with this one lesson, besides you probably don't even have a doctorate in sports education or possibly have never coached past the high school level.

But believe me, when you see that, the lineman is not performing well.

[Temprees]

I am as ticked off as any other fan and I have my issues with things coaches do...that is part of being a fan.

With that said, the most asinine criticism of a coach is that he has better players sitting the bench.

That is about as ridiculous as saying.."their players wanted more than ours". 

Those are two common statements fans make that show fans to be complete dummies when it comes to coaching and playing.

These coaches put the players out there that give the team the best chance to win the game.  They don't play favorites. 

Sure...players have to buy in, do things the right way, work hard, go to class, blah blah blah....but the players who do things the right way off the field also are more likely to help you win the game.

If Brian Wallace..or insert any other name here...was better than the player in front of him..BB would play him.

Well........, Why was Gibson not playing until half the season last year? He turned out to be our 2nd best OLineman.

[ShadowHawg]

Explain Hammonds and Hatden just two games ago then.

[PygmalionEffect2]

Because Bert played an inferior player.

Inferior to who?

He had missed assignments early but he was also a bull in there from game one when he was able to get his helmet on someone.

I don't remember Froholdt's learning curve lasting past a couple games and then he started improving and it's paying off now anyway.

I can't argue that there wasn't someone as good or better due to experience, but hard to tell if they would also have a few missed assignments.  I don't know of anyone with more raw talent than him.  That's not the case with our current situation.
Froholdt has shown to be a quick learner.

[hawgon]

Inferior to who?

He had missed assignments early but he was also a bull in there from game one when he was able to get his helmet on someone.

I don't remember Froholdt's learning curve lasting past a couple games and then he started improving and it's paying off now anyway.

I can't argue that there wasn't someone as good or better due to experience, but hard to tell if they would also have a few missed assignments.  I don't know of anyone with more raw talent than him.  That's not the case with our current situation.
Froholdt has shown to be a quick learner.

He had more instances of not even getting a hand on someone than I would even have thought possible had I not seen it with my own eyes.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Here is my bottom line to your post.i don't trust his judgment anymore.D.Stewart is not better than TJ Hamond in my opinion. and don't get me started again on some of the OL decisions.why was Nance listen behind Stewart in the first place?seems clear to me that Nance is better.Cantrell at TE over CJ and Patton.really? i do not trust his judgment anymore. it's as simple as that.

I won't speak to specific players, but not trusting his judgment is a perfectly reasonable position.  It's where I've come to as well.  The OL is a mess, and BB gets to own it.  Poor coaching, poor recruiting, or whatever.  Hard to trust his judgment right now.  Coaches screw up all the time.  Perfectly reasonable to consider the possibility that he may be missing it, even though he doesn't see it.  We should stop acting like our HC doesn't screw up.  Or any HC for that matter.  They screw up all the time. 

That said, not saying this is certainly the case, but it's no doubt very plausible.

[grassroothog]

There is such a thing as a game time player.  Some players don't really shine until they are under the pressure of a real live game.

Absolutely. This phenomenon occurs in all aspects of life. No reason to think that it doesn"t in football.

[lasthog]

I am as ticked off as any other fan and I have my issues with things coaches do...that is part of being a fan.

With that said, the most asinine criticism of a coach is that he has better players sitting the bench.

That is about as ridiculous as saying.."their players wanted more than ours". 

Those are two common statements fans make that show fans to be complete dummies when it comes to coaching and playing.

These coaches put the players out there that give the team the best chance to win the game.  They don't play favorites. 

Sure...players have to buy in, do things the right way, work hard, go to class, blah blah blah....but the players who do things the right way off the field also are more likely to help you win the game.

If Brian Wallace..or insert any other name here...was better than the player in front of him..BB would play him.

Where did you get such a broad brush?

According to you, all who disagree with you are "asinine" and "dummies."

No team is more motivated than another, so suggesting that "their players wanted (it) more" is "ridiculous."

I will only speak to your post: Uninformed and unnecessarily unpleasant.

Be careful to not fall off your lofty perch.

[IronHog]

So you watch the game film and grade the o linemen?  Impressive.

I usually watch at least some of the line play in replay


Wallace better have knocked over a liquor store in drag

[hawgon]

I am as ticked off as any other fan and I have my issues with things coaches do...that is part of being a fan.

With that said, the most asinine criticism of a coach is that he has better players sitting the bench.

That is about as ridiculous as saying.."their players wanted more than ours". 

Those are two common statements fans make that show fans to be complete dummies when it comes to coaching and playing.

These coaches put the players out there that give the team the best chance to win the game.  They don't play favorites. 

Sure...players have to buy in, do things the right way, work hard, go to class, blah blah blah....but the players who do things the right way off the field also are more likely to help you win the game.

If Brian Wallace..or insert any other name here...was better than the player in front of him..BB would play him.

Darren McFadden smoked a lot of weed and broke his toe in a bar fight.  But, you're right, I'm sure a choir boy would have helped us more on the field.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

I usually watch at least some of the line play in replay


Wallace better have knocked over a liquor store in drag

I've admittedly been on the fence for a while, but it's officially, you're my new favorite poster.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Darren McFadden smoked a lot of weed and broke his toe in a bar fight.  But, you're right, I'm sure a choir boy would have helped us more on the field.

And McFadden was probably a choir boy compare to some the guys who've won NC's with other teams.

[Hog Pharm]

Because Bert played an inferior player.

An inferior player who was voted preseason all-sec by the coaches? That inferior player??

[hawgon]

An inferior player who was voted preseason all-sec by the coaches? That inferior player??

I'm must have missed that last year.

[code red]

I am as ticked off as any other fan and I have my issues with things coaches do...that is part of being a fan.

With that said, the most asinine criticism of a coach is that he has better players sitting the bench.

That is about as ridiculous as saying.."their players wanted more than ours". 

Those are two common statements fans make that show fans to be complete dummies when it comes to coaching and playing.

These coaches put the players out there that give the team the best chance to win the game.  They don't play favorites. 

Sure...players have to buy in, do things the right way, work hard, go to class, blah blah blah....but the players who do things the right way off the field also are more likely to help you win the game.

If Brian Wallace..or insert any other name here...was better than the player in front of him..BB would play him.

this is a very valid point. Which leads me to ask. What's going on with recruiting?

[Big Nasty 34]

I think you can clearly look at actual conference games last season to see Wallace's quality and then look at the mess that is Clary and Ramirez and determine that isn't the case.

You can make this same argument at RB, WR, TE, KR/PR

Please tell me conference games that we could see RB, WR, TE and Returners out perform guys playing ahead of them now. Lot of new very unproven faces.

[Tusks]

They don't put the players in the best position to succeed.

And, FEED THE STUDS.

[Etowah]

Well........, Why was Gibson not playing until half the season last year? He turned out to be our 2nd best OLineman.

Easy answer...because he got better as the season progressed.  The way he practiced earned him the right to play.

[hawgon]

Well........, Why was Gibson not playing until half the season last year? He turned out to be our 2nd best OLineman.

Easy answer...because he got better as the season progressed.  The way he practiced earned him the right to play.

Actually, according to Bielema himself practice had nothing to do with it.  Gibson came to his office and begged for playing time.

[12247]

Etowah, I have a problem with your brash statements concerning coaches could have better players on the bench than they are playing and that some players wanted it more than others.

Coaches being humans, they can be swayed by many outside influences such as playing their own Kid over an outside Kid, Playing the College Presidents son over someone more qualified as off hand examples.  In the instant case of the Hogs, I honestly don't believe Bret Bielema knows who on his team may be better in many situations.  He allows players who are stinking up the joint to continue to play and doesn't give others a chance.  He declares or his assistant declares that certain players aren't catching on and then, by God, the starter gets hurt and in comes dummy who can't catch on and plays lights out.  WR is the worst place to try and get a start on our team.  We heard we didn't have any WRs but Hatcher was the best of what we had so  we had to play someone.  Hatcher turned out to be pretty good.  Then he got hurt and damn we had to use someone so we threw in Morgan and damn,he was pretty good too.  Cornilies went down Saturday and in comes another dummie named Nance and caught 2 TDs.  BB couldn't pick his teeth much less
the right fit for each position, period.

But the real winner you spewed is about one group of players may want it more than the other group of players, which you say doesn't happen.  Horsehockey....  If you don't know that you are totally lost.  The big one on TV this week was TCU/OSU.  OSU at home and a better team got their rears handed to them by TCU, a good team but more than anything, a team OF PLAYEERS that wanted it more than the OSU team of players.  To educate you, Sir, its a mental thing.  Football is an extremely mental game.  If you're not mentally ready to play and play at a high level and mentally tough enough to run into adversity and come out more determined than you entered, you are very likely to get your rear kicked.  Anyone who has competed knows what I am talking about.  It's often called refusing to be denied or fire in the belly or just plain old desire.  I am embarrassed for you, honestly.

[Etowah]

Darren McFadden smoked a lot of weed and broke his toe in a bar fight.  But, you're right, I'm sure a choir boy would have helped us more on the field.


And what would we have done if he had done things right on and off the field?

I hear people say all the time, Nutt under performed with that group.  I say we have the answer with that post.

[Etowah]

122247..........not saying that some players and some teams work harder and are mentally tougher than others and that gives them a better chance to win.

My point is fans making that judgement to and saying this is the reason a team lost.

We don't know that to be the case...but it is a common statement made when one team gets beat.

We are simply guessing.  We have no idea how "bad they wanted it".

[lakecityhog]

Posted this is another thread and it actually fits better here! Sorry.

68   Kirby Adcock   OL   Fr   6-5   288   
66   Ty Clary   OL   Fr   6-4   286   
57   Shane Clenin   OL   Fr   6-6   300
78   Dalton Wagner   OL   Fr   6-9   311
64   Audry Horn   OL   Fr   6-2   329

67   Tyler Hall   OL   R-Fr   6-4   296
55   Jake Heinrich   OL   R-Fr   6-4   293

74   Colton Jackson   OL   So   6-5   298
79   Jalen Merrick   OL   So   6-4   322
61   Cooper Sone   OL   So   6-2   272
   
51   Hjalte Froholdt   OL   Jr   6-5   311   
62   Johnny Gibson Jr.   OL   Jr   6-4   333   
71   Jackson Hannah   OL   Jr   6-2   305   
99   Deion Malone   OL   Jr   6-3   304
75   Zach Rogers   OL   Jr   6-1   309
60   Brian Wallace   OL   Jr   6-6   337   
   
72   Frank Ragnow   OL   Sr   6-5   317   
76   Paul Ramirez   OL   Sr   6-5   308   
50   Jake Raulerson   OL   Sr   6-4   313   
   
This is our O'Line sorted by class. Now what I would like for everyone to do is to consider that a blueshirt/walkon with a best offer of Tulsa came in and beat out 4 other true freshmen, 2 RS freshmen, 2 sophomores, 4 juniors and 2 seniors. Not only that, but he is so good that he forced the staff to move a natural guard to tackle in order to get the "best" players on the field??

Either that or we have to take it that we have a guy that started ?9? games last year at RT and has regressed so much that the above scenario had to take place.

Guys, this isn't about favoritism or race or any other such nonsense, this is nothing more than blatant incompetence! I would just about bet that if we had hired a really solid P5 O'Line coach last year that we would see a totally different product on the field and a true freshmen would not be part of the picture. He would be redshirting along with the rest of that class just like he should be.

[12247]

Sort of reminds me of the person who really wants a car, or maybe a newer home or maybe just a concert ticket.  Now they really want that whatever it is really bad, I mean really bad. But you give them a path to go get that item say with a tough 16 hour day of really difficult work with enough reward to go get that concert ticket, but they say no way am I going to work that hard.  So how bad do they really want it.  OSU really wanted to win Saturday.  They knew the cost of losing could be a playoff spot in 3 months.  They thought they prepared.  They honestly never thought they would lose.  Isn't gonna happen to TCU, you kidding.  Point is they weren't ready, the coaching staff wasn't ready and didn't have their team mentally prepared and they got beat. Mentally Prepared is the most important prepared you can get.  Mind over Matter is the truth.

[bphi11ips]

Sort of reminds me of the person who really wants a car, or maybe a newer home or maybe just a concert ticket.  Now they really want that whatever it is really bad, I mean really bad. But you give them a path to go get that item say with a tough 16 hour day of really difficult work with enough reward to go get that concert ticket, but they say no way am I going to work that hard.  So how bad do they really want it.  OSU really wanted to win Saturday.  They knew the cost of losing could be a playoff spot in 3 months.  They thought they prepared.  They honestly never thought they would lose.  Isn't gonna happen to TCU, you kidding.  Point is they weren't ready, the coaching staff wasn't ready and didn't have their team mentally prepared and they got beat. Mentally Prepared is the most important prepared you can get.  Mind over Matter is the truth.

TCU is a better football team than OSU.  Gary Patterson is a better coach than Mike Gundy.  T.Boone Pickens can pay for a lot of lipstick.  OSU boosters can shake a lot of hands.  At the end of the day it's still DFW vs. Cowpoke State. 

[DeltaBoy]

Sabin does but not Bret .

[hawgon]

A coach has to realize that one player's 80% effort might be better than another's 110% effort.  And while he can do what he can to try and get the 80% guy to bring his effort up, it still makes no sense to play the lesser talented guy just because he is putting out more effort.

[IronHog]

Darren McFadden smoked a lot of weed and broke his toe in a bar fight.  But, you're right, I'm sure a choir boy would have helped us more on the field.


And what would we have done if he had done things right on and off the field?

I hear people say all the time, Nutt under performed with that group.  I say we have the answer with that post.

McFadden had a reputation for strong work ethic in college and as pro.


Antwon Robinson?  Not so much

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

Depends how you want to look at it. He is arguably our best run blocker outside of Ragnow. And was last season as well. Do you give up his advantage in run blocking to put a guy in who may be well rounded but doesn't do anything great?

Statements like that make it really hard to take you serious

[hogsanity]

So you watch the game film and grade the o linemen?  Impressive.

these are the same people that call him Bert, call Long a carpet bagger, etc. They really have noting else to do, so it is likely they do watch the games 4 times and "breakdown" film. Now, they have no idea what they are doing, but it fills their day.

[hogsanity]

A coach has to realize that one player's 80% effort might be better than another's 110% effort.  And while he can do what he can to try and get the 80% guy to bring his effort up, it still makes no sense to play the lesser talented guy just because he is putting out more effort.

but what you are saying is that the coach just has to ignore practice and trust that when the lights come on they guy who is not cutting it in practice will show up and play better than the guy that is. That is a huge risk for a coach to take.

[hawgon]

but what you are saying is that the coach just has to ignore practice and trust that when the lights come on they guy who is not cutting it in practice will show up and play better than the guy that is. That is a huge risk for a coach to take.

Not as big a risk as playing a scrub.