Why is the buyout so lopsided?

[PorkSoda]

lefty96 said it:  Long at the time need Bielema more than Bielema needed Long.  Bielema cuts and runs after reexamining his "mistake" after year two as Razorback coach would not have looked good on Long's resume.  Long throws the risk on the Arkansas athletic department to keep his resume clean.

Additionally, IMO there is not much Jeff does that he doesn't examine the deal to see how it makes him look, not just to Razorback fans but to the out of state media particularly.

Even with all the new buildings and the stadium improvements I have a feeling ole Jeff is going to lead Arkansas right down the rabbit hole before he's through.

I don't agree, who was knocking at the door to hire CBB away?  nobody that's who.  you trying to tell me that CBB doesnt need a 4 mil per year job?  that he would just walk away from that?  and go where? who is going to hire someone who just went 2-14 in conference?

there was no need for an extension he had proven nothing.  Long got over excited with the Texas and LSU win.  that's is the long and short of it.  if he wanted to keep CBB long term, then there should have been a reciprocal commitment.  instead we got zero guarantee he would stay, and made it impossible to fire him. 

[Hogs-n-Roses]

Where does he always sit at that game and where do we always get plenty of shots of him sitting and yucking it up?  There were lots of shots of that area on Saturday, but no Jeff Long.  Does anyone know why?

Where does he always sit at that game and where do we always get plenty of shots of him sitting and yucking it up?  There were lots of shots of that area on Saturday, but no Jeff Long.  Does anyone know why?

They're not gonna let you print this

[hawgon]

Realize, it was more about making Bielema untouchable than it was about the good of the football program.  Long had just run off the best coach in 25 years over something that could have been mitigated.  He had then hired a bankrupt clown, KNOWING he was a bankrupt clown, who had finished 4-7 with a team that was considered a dark horse contender for the national championship before the season.  He then made what was considered a hiring coup with Bielema, but not a universally popular hire because of concerns about his style and trying to "out Bama, Bama".  This hire had then given us the only winless year in conference in our history.

Jeff realized that his well being was tied to Bielema and he was going to make darned sure that Bielema had every chance.  THAT is why the buyout is so high and so lopsided.

[ricepig]

Wasn't he at the halftime ceremony? I don't know his whereabouts otherwise.

Yep, he presented Jerry his jersey at halftime.

[DeltaBoy]

5 years, 3 years pf progress, 2 years of regression.

[Con el Cerdos]

Long structured the buyout that way in order to kill off the GOBN.  And it has almost worked, except for one thing, he bet on the wrong horse.  Bielema wasn't half the coach Long thought he was.  Now, he is struggling a bit.  If he could, it would be best to dump Bert and move on.  But he can't do that now without taking the big money and the strings that come with it.  And of course, if he refuses to replace Bert and he continues to tank, Long will go down with him.

There is talk that the money is there.  But it has strings.

I'll add just a bit to your point.  If the money is dissatisfied with BB, and pissed by the buy out, Jeff will never know before he is called in by the U of A president or chancellor to let him know that his time is up. 

As academics they probably won't like it, but everyone has a pressure point that they must respond to.  The threat of withholding sizable donations by the money folks would be it.  Similar, I expect to what happened at Nebraska.

And yes I know that probably 90% of the posters on this board think Jeff will be "forever."  I think he will be gone before BB unless he can convince BB to walk without the buy out.

[hawgon]

I'll add just a bit to your point.  If the money is dissatisfied with BB, and pissed by the buy out, Jeff will never know before he is called in by the U of A president or chancellor to let him know that his time is up. 

As academics they probably won't like it, but everyone has a pressure point that they must respond to.  The threat of withholding sizable donations by the money folks would be it.  Similar, I expect to what happened at Nebraska.

And yes I know that probably 90% of the posters on this board think Jeff will be "forever."  I think he will be gone before BB unless he can convince BB to walk without the buy out.

And don't forget there are two sides.  The "Jeff" side is putting out the word that things are fine and that Jeff has the full support of everyone that counts and so on and so forth.  The other side, centered three or four hours to the south is putting it out there that the money is there for the buyout and all that.  They may or may not seek to force Jeff's hand and they may or may not be successful if they do try, but it is not all sunshine and lollipops right now.  There are things starting to move and shake a little.

[ErieHog]

So it became the norm within the past half dozen years?  As I pointed out, the buyout for BP was very different  (i.e. - more less equal).

BP's buyout was abnormal, because he was viewed as both suspect and disloyal.    BB's buyout is pretty standard- see the other contracts around the SEC, to see just which is 'normal'.

[HotlantaHog]

BP's buyout was abnormal, because he was viewed as both suspect and disloyal.    BB's buyout is pretty standard- see the other contracts around the SEC, to see just which is 'normal'.

This would make a very good story for the Arkansas press. It is a good question how normal the CBB buyout is. And it is very relevant to whether Long got taken to the cleaners or not.

[PorkSoda]

This would make a very good story for the Arkansas press. It is a good question how normal the CBB buyout is. And it is very relevant to whether Long got taken to the cleaners or not.

CBB's buyout is actually very similar to Sumlins. 

not sure if Jimmy Sexton is their agent, but he has been known to get his clients very advantageous contracts. 

[ricepig]

CBB's buyout is actually very similar to Sumlins. 

not sure if Jimmy Sexton is their agent, but he has been known to get his clients very advantageous contracts. 

Neil Cornwich is, he is also Kirk Ferrntz's who has a great buyout.

[STLhawg]

BB was given the buyout because the school had no plans to get rid of him for many years but, IF he were to become really successful they wanted protection against him leaving and forcing them into yet another coaching change. It truly is not that hard to figure out.

Well if he were to have a lot of success here, that measily $2M penalty wasn't going to keep him from bolting to a new job.  So you haven't figured out anything -- so stop patting yourself in the back because it makes you look silly!  If his penalty for leaving equaled his buyout then it would deter other schools from hiring him away (and this thread would have never been started).

[ND]

This would make a very good story for the Arkansas press. It is a good question how normal the CBB buyout is. And it is very relevant to whether Long got taken to the cleaners or not.

CBS Sports called it "extremely friendly" to Bielema back in 2015, when it was negotiated.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/arkansas-gives-bret-bielema-raise-extension-through-2020/

Jeff and Bret's comments will make you dry heave.  You've been warned.

N

[Hoginsavga]

Get off the carpetbagger crap. If the confederates were so smart they should have been able to overcome all the advantages the north had. Even moreso they should have been smart enough not to secede.

I have a strong feeling that Delta is a lot of tongue in cheek when he says carpetbagger. I live in south GA in a golf community that is probably made up of more than 50% families from the North. A great bunch of people that are close friends.

However, each year we hold a blue vs gray golf tournament and make a lot of snide remarks towards each other that are hilarious. No one gets angry or their feelings hurt. This is a prime example of how people should live together. BTW, the Grays are leading in wins over the years in case anyone is interested.

[BoynamedWooPigSooie]

Long is no genius.

If Arkansas was a destination job as it once was then you would not have the need for an enormous buyout to give a coach job security.  Long gets bent over the bargaining table time and time again.

He gave Petrino a stupid huge buyout and Petrino used that job security to crap all over the university.

Bielema was given a stupid huge buyout for finishing 3rd in the division. c'mon man.

Only a scared AD makes those deals.

Other than the declining track program have any Razorback teams won a conference championship since Jeff Long was hired? 

[STLhawg]

He gave Petrino a stupid huge buyout and Petrino used that job security to crap all over the university.

First we didn't pay BP a dime for firing him.  And at least his buyout figure was roughly the same as his penalty for leaving!

Bielema was given a stupid huge buyout for finishing 3rd in the division. c'mon man.

Even though hindsight shows it would have been a bad idea, I could accept this buyout IF his penalty for leaving was roughly the same amount.  Instead his penalty for leaving is over seven times less than his buyout figure!  That kind of deal is indefensible IMO (namely because BB had done nothing to earn that)!

Only a scared AD makes those deals.

Or one that is just clueless.  Or one that is doing it to because it serves his best interest (and not the university's best interest).

[Rzbakfromwaybak]

Because Jeff Long is a genius....

[GoHogs1091]

So why is the buy-out so incredibly lopsided?  Why did Long agree to pay BB $15M to fire him but only have a $2M penalty for BB if he decided to leave in his FIFTH year?  For BP those figures were about the same.  It is logical to make the numbers the same because that shows the school's commitment to the coach AND shows the coach's commitment to the school.  Evidently BB wanted a huge commitment from Arkansas but at the same time wanted to be 'free' to leave if he chose to.  So why on earth would Jeff Long agree to this?  This contract with BB just doesn't smell right -- it almost seems like Long and BB colluded to stick it to Arkansas (if they chose to fire BB).  Do the two men share the same agent?  Or did Long realize he was 'married' to BB and knew if he didn't succeed then Arkansas would likely fire the AD too (and therefore he bought BB and himself more time)?  I just don't see how he had Arkansas' best interest in mind when he agreed to this.  Maybe someone who thinks Long is a good AD can explain it to me.

Good questions.

It was a poor business decision by an Athletic Director who is not an elite AD.

[Inhogswetrust]

I have a strong feeling that Delta is a lot of tongue in cheek when he says carpetbagger. I live in south GA in a golf community that is probably made up of more than 50% families from the North. A great bunch of people that are close friends.

However, each year we hold a blue vs gray golf tournament and make a lot of snide remarks towards each other that are hilarious. No one gets angry or their feelings hurt. This is a prime example of how people should live together. BTW, the Grays are leading in wins over the years in case anyone is interested.

I hope so, but don't think so. He uses it a lot.  Plus look at his avatar, sig line. Subliminal maybe. Guess who that phrase is affiliated with.........................John Wilkes Booth.

[HardCore]

Because Jeff Long is a genius....

Wylie Coyote Super Genius

[DeltaBoy]

Because Jeff Long is a genius....

Only in his own mind.  He is the Elmer Fudd of AD's

[hawganatic]

Here's an article (written 11 months ago so some of the data might have changed) listing SEC coach buyouts.  It looks like this type of buyout is becoming more the norm.

Some excerpts:

Nick Saban (Alabama): $23,266,668 (they could have made this 50 mill, it's not like Bama is going to fire him for anything)
Kirby Smart (Georgia): $13,500,000
Mark Stoops (Kentucky): $14,041,667
Kevin Sumlin (Texas A&M): $15,416,667
Butch Jones (Tennessee): $10,625,000
Will Muschamp (South Carolina): $9,496,667

Beliema had a better record/reputation as a head coach coming into Arkansas than everybody on that list except for Saban, so if this is becoming the norm that the 15 mill buyout is almost justified.

I suspect it is as much targeted for our next coach as it is to protect Beliema, and making the job more appealing.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/cost-get-rid-coach-buyout-numbers-sec-coaches/

[Razor1997]

Perhaps a better question is, how can I get my employer to give me a deal like that?

I can't promise my employer $15 million worth of performance, but I can assure them that they'll get lots of integrity.

[a0ashle]

Perhaps a better question is, how can I get my employer to give me a deal like that?

I can't promise my employer $15 million worth of performance, but I can assure them that they'll get lots of integrity.

A lot of people really don't understand buyouts. Why is it seen as a gift to the coach when he only gets it if he is fired without cause.

A buyout is a promise to fulfill the contract as agreed upon, except in the extreme situations. A buyout that is of no consequence for a University to pay, isn't much of a promise and it would pointless.

The buyout could be 100 million and it doesn't mean a damn thing if you honor the contract.

[a0ashle]

Only in his own mind.  He is the Elmer Fudd of AD's

Don't get out much do you? He's top 5 AD in a lot of people's minds.

[hawganatic]

A lot of people really don't understand buyouts. Why is it seen as a gift to the coach when he only gets it if he is fired without cause.

A buyout is a promise to fulfill the contract as agreed upon, except in the extreme situations. A buyout that is of no consequence for a University to pay, isn't much of a promise and it would pointless.

The buyout could be 100 million and it doesn't mean a damn thing if you honor the contract.

Is the coach honoring the contract if he underperforms?  That's the whole catch.  There should be the expectation of the University to honor the contract, as well as the expectation of the coach to perform at a certain level..

There should be more conditions put on the buyout, like it drops to XX amount if the team doesn't make a bowl game, or it becomes void if the team has a losing record two years in a row, or whatever is reasonable for each situation. 

The blanket, you get XX amount regardless of how you perform at your job isn't a good business model.

[ricepig]

Is the coach honoring the contract if he underperforms?  That's the whole catch.  There should be the expectation of the University to honor the contract, as well as the expectation of the coach to perform at a certain level..

There should be more conditions put on the buyout, like it drops to XX amount if the team doesn't make a bowl game, or it becomes void if the team has a losing record two years in a row, or whatever is reasonable for each situation. 

The blanket, you get XX amount regardless of how you perform at your job isn't a good business model.

Good luck on getting a P5 coach with your next hire with those demands.....

[hawganatic]

Good luck on getting a P5 coach with your next hire with those demands.....

You miss my point.  I'm not saying Arkansas should do this exclusively.  I'm saying that ALL schools should start migrating to this type of model for coach contracts.

Besides any coach worth this kind of money isn't going to go into a situation expecting to fail.  A coach that asks "what do I get if you fire me" has already failed before he begins.

[a0ashle]

You miss my point.  I'm not saying Arkansas should do this exclusively.  I'm saying that ALL schools should start migrating to this type of model for coach contracts.

Besides any coach worth this kind of money isn't going to go into a situation expecting to fail.  A coach that asks "what do I get if you fire me" has already failed before he begins.

The easier you make a buyout to be executed, more worthless it is. We've promised to honor our contract, we've put the money where our mouth is, and we'll get a better coach after CBB because of it.

[hawgon]

A lot of people really don't understand buyouts. Why is it seen as a gift to the coach when he only gets it if he is fired without cause.

A buyout is a promise to fulfill the contract as agreed upon, except in the extreme situations. A buyout that is of no consequence for a University to pay, isn't much of a promise and it would pointless.

The buyout could be 100 million and it doesn't mean a damn thing if you honor the contract.

No, a buyout is a liquidated damages clause negotiated for and agreed upon by the parties to the contract should the parties decide it is in their best interest to end it.

[logic]

So why is the buy-out so incredibly lopsided?  Why did Long agree to pay BB $15M to fire him but only have a $2M penalty for BB if he decided to leave in his FIFTH year?  For BP those figures were about the same.  It is logical to make the numbers the same because that shows the school's commitment to the coach AND shows the coach's commitment to the school.  Evidently BB wanted a huge commitment from Arkansas but at the same time wanted to be 'free' to leave if he chose to.  So why on earth would Jeff Long agree to this?  This contract with BB just doesn't smell right -- it almost seems like Long and BB colluded to stick it to Arkansas (if they chose to fire BB).  Do the two men share the same agent?  Or did Long realize he was 'married' to BB and knew if he didn't succeed then Arkansas would likely fire the AD too (and therefore he bought BB and himself more time)?  I just don't see how he had Arkansas' best interest in mind when he agreed to this.  Maybe someone who thinks Long is a good AD can explain it to me.

Because Jeff Long is more foolish than the drunk off the street.  Increasing the buyout might have been justified if CBB was winning. However, CBB was losing and near the bottom of the SEC.  CBB should NOT have have been given a raise let alone increasing the buyout by $11 million.

[hawganatic]

The easier you make a buyout to be executed, more worthless it is. We've promised to honor our contract, we've put the money where our mouth is, and we'll get a better coach after CBB because of it.

So if that is true, then we are back to the original question of why is it so lopsided.  Going by your own premise, the contract is more worthless to BB than it is the University, since it easier for him to execute his side of the buyout than it is the school's.  Shouldn't there be the expectation on both sides for the contract to be fulfilled?

[hawgon]

A lot of people really don't understand buyouts. Why is it seen as a gift to the coach when he only gets it if he is fired without cause.

A buyout is a promise to fulfill the contract as agreed upon, except in the extreme situations. A buyout that is of no consequence for a University to pay, isn't much of a promise and it would pointless.

The buyout could be 100 million and it doesn't mean a damn thing if you honor the contract.

And no, a buyout is not a promise to honor a contract.  If that is what it is, then it is redundant and useless as that the contract itself will suffice.  Instead, it is precisely the opposite.  It is a promise of payment if the contract is terminated BEFORE the end date

As such, liquidated damages are almost NEVER as much as they would be if the contract ran to its end.  There simply would be no need for either side to negotiate for it they were for that much.  The goal in coaches' contracts is to provide the coach with a measure of security and the school a way out.

[a0ashle]

Legally, you guys are right, but I'm speaking practically. You can throw all the legal wording in that you think makes you look smart, reality is that a 15 million dollar buyout makes it harder to execute, if it's harder to execute its harder to end the contract early and therefore is showing more commitment to honor the original terms of the contract, thus we have shown everyone that he will be here unless he does 15 million dollars worth of "underperform". Don't try to out think yourselves, that number is there to show organizations commitment to CBB and not just show CBB, but our next potential coach and our upcoming recruiting classes.

[hawgon]

Legally, you guys are right, but I'm speaking practically. You can throw all the legal wording in that you think makes you look smart, reality is that a 15 million dollar buyout makes it harder to execute, if it's harder to execute its harder to end the contract early and therefore is showing more commitment to honor the original terms of the contract, thus we have shown everyone that he will be here unless he does 15 million dollars worth of "underperform". Don't try to out think yourselves, that number is there to show organizations commitment to CBB and not just show CBB, but our next potential coach and our upcoming recruiting classes.

So, in our case the buyout IS MORE than the remaining years on his contract?  Sounds like a great business plan to me.

[a0ashle]

So if that is true, then we are back to the original question of why is it so lopsided.  Going by your own premise, the contract is more worthless to BB than it is the University, since it easier for him to execute his side of the buyout than it is the school's.  Shouldn't there be the expectation on both sides for the contract to be fulfilled?

Someone mention it earlier, but CBB doesn't posses the kind of money that UofA has, hence the asymmetry. That said another university could easily front it. The other factor is signability, you have to get both parties to agree.

[a0ashle]

So, in our case the buyout IS MORE than the remaining years on his contract?  Sounds like a great business plan to me.

Whooosh!

[ricepig]

So, in our case the buyout IS MORE than the remaining years on his contract?  Sounds like a great business plan to me.

Nope, he's owed $11.7m for years 2018, 2019, and 2020. His salary for those three years is $13.2m.

[hawgon]

Nope, he's owed $11.7m for years 2018, 2019, and 2020. His salary for those three years is $13.2m.

But if he is fired before January 1st it is more than his remaining salary since he will have already been paid the bulk of his salary for 2017 by then.

[STLhawg]

Here's an article (written 11 months ago so some of the data might have changed) listing SEC coach buyouts.  It looks like this type of buyout is becoming more the norm.

While I don't like the buyout, my issue is with why his penalty for not fulfilling his agreement (by electing to leave) is SO much less at only $2M.  That article doesn't address my original question/concern at all!  For all we know all those other coaches with 8-figure buyouts all have penalties (for leaving) that equal their buyout number.  That is what the UofA did with BP.  But this time Long agreed to a massive buyout and yet agreed to take peanuts if BB left for another school.  THAT make no sense especially given his past track record of contracts -- unless their is some collusion or ulterior motive.

[Seebs]

My aunt is an Admin at UofA and helped process the paperwork for the buyout extension on CBBs contract. It was learned that the numbers represented an algorithm  of CBB blood work.

His good cholesterol, Lipids, Pre-diabetes and Testosterone numbers were added together, multiplied by Pi, or Blueberry Pie, and then rammed into a pair of size 38 waist jeans.

The number of times it took to fit the number and CBB into those jeans was 15 million.   He got a dollar per try. The jeans finally exploded and there is no proof of the episode other than the existing document my Auntie help approve.  True story bro.

[a0ashle]

My aunt is an Admin at UofA and helped process the paperwork for the buyout extension on CBBs contract. It was learned that the numbers represented an algorithm  of CBB blood work.

His good cholesterol, Lipids, Pre-diabetes and Testosterone numbers were added together, multiplied by Pi, or Blueberry Pie, and then rammed into a pair of size 38 waist jeans.

The number of times it took to fit the number and CBB into those jeans was 15 million.   He got a dollar per try. The jeans finally exploded and there is no proof of the episode other than the existing document my Auntie help approve.  True story bro.

You should execute the buyout on this post.

[STLhawg]

A lot of people really don't understand buyouts.

And a lot of people don't understand I am asking why the buyout figure is over seven times larger than his penalty for leaving!  In both instances it is a large school that will be paying for it -- so why is BB' s so lopsided to his favor?

[STLhawg]

Someone mention it earlier, but CBB doesn't posses the kind of money that UofA has, hence the asymmetry. That said another university could easily front it.

I have never seen an instance where the hiring school hasn't covered that penalty -- so that argument doesn't hold up.

[a0ashle]

I have never seen an instance where the hiring school hasn't covered that penalty -- so that argument doesn't hold up.

You're right it's not an answer. If I cared more I'd try to figure out what normal is for coaches side of the buyout.

[Donny2665]

$15,400,000.00/21,281 Hogvillians= $723.65 each  We Can Do This!!

[ricepig]

But if he is fired before January 1st it is more than his remaining salary since he will have already been paid the bulk of his salary for 2017 by then.

Thus, he won't be fired anytime soon.

[hawgon]

Thus, he won't be fired anytime soon.

The money is already there.  Your boy, Jeffy, has to decide if he is going to ride this wreck all the way down to the bottom or try to get off on the next life boat.

[ricepig]

The money is already there.  Your boy, Jeffy, has to decide if he is going to ride this wreck all the way down to the bottom or try to get off on the next life boat.

Neither of my son's name is Jeffy, try again. I guess you've seen the checks written, red socks show them to you lol???

[hawgon]

Neither of my son's name is Jeffy, try again. I guess you've seen the checks written, red socks show them to you lol???

Jeffy, called you yet for his daily consultation and advice session?