Was Alex Collins a system back?

[rhog1]

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/8/20/12567238/was-alex-collins-no-more-than-a-product-of-the-system
"However, through the first two preseason games his performance has underwhelmed, and while two preseason games is far from enough to give up on a promising youngster, it doesn't change the fact that some Hawks fans have been so disappointed in what they have seen from Collins that they are now expecting him to be cut."

Seems like Seahawk fans are really unhappy with Alex's performance through the first 2 preseason games. As talented as he is I just cant see him not sticking with a program somewhere if he ends up cut. Hopefully he improves quickly.

[Soooie21]

They have too many backs, plus Rawls will be back soon....7 rb's got carries last night...not counting Rawls....

[hawginbigd1]

Definitely something to consider, none of the Wisconsin backs pre-dating CBB even, ever really did anything at the next level going all the way back to Ron Dayne. Melvin Gordon last year really didn't impress either. I would guess Montee Ball has done the most of any in the NFL.

[theFlyingHog]

"System" back? I guess you can call it that. As in, our system is to pound it down your throat like Peter North

[alohawg]

This is ridiculous to anyone who has witnessed these two preseason games. He's had a grand total of 7-8 touches and of them I assign ONE really bad play to his account, a dropped fast ball on a slant. The rest he did as well as 90% of the backs in the league would have and on at least one play, better than most. I mean look, they bring him in on a 3rd and one, hand-off up the gut stuffed, then a repeat on 4th and one and on both plays he was practically met at the hand-off by the defense. His o-line didn't help at all.
Put Alex in the freaking game on fresh series or two in a row, better yet, let him play an entire qtr.. THEN make some sort of evaluation. To date they haven't done that and until they do, we really don't know the answer to the question. Imo however, he's not a system back and he will succeed, if not in Seattle, somewhere in the league.

[Hogs run wild]

as opposed to a "we don't got no system, go out on the field and just do something" back? every team has a system. give him more carries and you will see what he can do.

[Pigsknuckles]

Always was leery of he term "system player". Coaches "systems" are developed to take advantage of the talent at hand. It is understandable that a player may not perform at the same level as accustomed when in a different environment. I hope AC can adapt to the elevated speed and skill level in the bigs.

[k.c.hawg]

The analyst for the Seahawks Network (Brock Huard) who is a very knowledgeable, articulate NFL analyst seems to think he is an excellent fit for the Seahawks "system" ans their zone blocking schemes. Pointing out his great ability to burst in tight spaces and vision and cutback ability to do exactly what zone blocking schemes hope to capitalize on. He thinks Alex is going to a good back for them but needs to mature into the offense.

[BPsTheMan]

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/8/20/12567238/was-alex-collins-no-more-than-a-product-of-the-system
"However, through the first two preseason games his performance has underwhelmed, and while two preseason games is far from enough to give up on a promising youngster, it doesn't change the fact that some Hawks fans have been so disappointed in what they have seen from Collins that they are now expecting him to be cut."

Seems like Seahawk fans are really unhappy with Alex's performance through the first 2 preseason games. As talented as he is I just cant see him not sticking with a program somewhere if he ends up cut. Hopefully he improves quickly.

the "writer" of this "story" is a dumbass

[hawginbigd1]

This is ridiculous to anyone who has witnessed these two preseason games. He's had a grand total of 7-8 touches and of them I assign ONE really bad play to his account, a dropped fast ball on a slant. The rest he did as well as 90% of the backs in the league would have and on at least one play, better than most. I mean look, they bring him in on a 3rd and one, hand-off up the gut stuffed, then a repeat on 4th and one and on both plays he was practically met at the hand-off by the defense. His o-line didn't help at all.
Put Alex in the freaking game on fresh series or two in a row, better yet, let him play an entire qtr.. THEN make some sort of evaluation. To date they haven't done that and until they do, we really don't know the answer to the question. Imo however, he's not a system back and he will succeed, if not in Seattle, somewhere in the league.

Decent points, however it could be luck or timing or combinations of players on both sides of the ball, but all of the other backs seem to be delivering positives, where as ACs first 2 carries were his high points so far.

[RME]

It isn't Bielema's job to coddle them in the NFL. Bielema does his job by coaching them in college and getting them into the League. Once they're there, it's up to the running back. I have a hard time believing in such a thing as a "system back" when running backs in the League seemingly adapt all the time. Sure, an individual running back can be in a system that more adapts to his strengths, but come on.

Someone saying that Collins is a "system back" after seeing him in action in 2 preseason games is looking for nothing more than clickbait, and for that reason I will not read the article.

[hogfanshan]

the "writer" of this "story" is a dumbass

Maybe he's a "System Writer."

[hawgrunner]

good grief that's tough.

[tophawg19]

every player is a system player . you pick the team that fits you best . there are backs that can't fit us but may fit a spread so that would make them a system back as well

[Pigsknuckles]

Maybe he's a "System Writer."

Truer words have never been spoken. Well played sir.

[nchogg]

As was said during training camp Coach put Alex in a lot of drills where he was hit and bruised because he wanted him to know what it was like and the other RB's were banged up. Get real. Alex will be fine. He just needs to adjust to the NFL.

[Vantage 8 dude]

This is ridiculous to anyone who has witnessed these two preseason games. He's had a grand total of 7-8 touches and of them I assign ONE really bad play to his account, a dropped fast ball on a slant. The rest he did as well as 90% of the backs in the league would have and on at least one play, better than most. I mean look, they bring him in on a 3rd and one, hand-off up the gut stuffed, then a repeat on 4th and one and on both plays he was practically met at the hand-off by the defense. His o-line didn't help at all.
Put Alex in the freaking game on fresh series or two in a row, better yet, let him play an entire qtr.. THEN make some sort of evaluation. To date they haven't done that and until they do, we really don't know the answer to the question. Imo however, he's not a system back and he will succeed, if not in Seattle, somewhere in the league.

So totally agree!! Come on, the kid has been in TWO exhibition games with less than a dozen touches and a lot of the fans are ready to say the kid ain't going to make it because he's a "system back" I'm sure there are plenty of backs who've gotten on to very memorable and successful careers who've had similar starts.

BTW if you thought the fans in New York and Philadelphia are tough I suppose Seattle is doing its best to become a very difficult group as well. Dang........

[hoggusamoungus]

Guy gained 3,700 yards in three SEC seasons.  That's pretty solid, whatever system you're in.

[ChitownHawg]

This is ridiculous to anyone who has witnessed these two preseason games. He's had a grand total of 7-8 touches and of them I assign ONE really bad play to his account, a dropped fast ball on a slant. The rest he did as well as 90% of the backs in the league would have and on at least one play, better than most. I mean look, they bring him in on a 3rd and one, hand-off up the gut stuffed, then a repeat on 4th and one and on both plays he was practically met at the hand-off by the defense. His o-line didn't help at all.
Put Alex in the freaking game on fresh series or two in a row, better yet, let him play an entire qtr.. THEN make some sort of evaluation. To date they haven't done that and until they do, we really don't know the answer to the question. Imo however, he's not a system back and he will succeed, if not in Seattle, somewhere in the league.

PC said after the first game that Alex is battling an ankle injury. The issue for Seattle is they have not really seem Prosise (sp?) due to injury. He only has one year of film as a back. How can you make him the #3 back if he hasn't earned it?

AC will not survive a move to the practice squad as someone would take him. So do you carry 4 backs?

[bigred223]

No.

[Hogwild]

Definitely something to consider, none of the Wisconsin backs pre-dating CBB even, ever really did anything at the next level going all the way back to Ron Dayne. Melvin Gordon last year really didn't impress either. I would guess Montee Ball has done the most of any in the NFL.

Ball was the biggest bust of any of them.
Montee Ball was cut by both Denver and New England in the past 14 months.  He has only played in 5 games since his rookie season and was on the Patriots practice squad last year. I don't think he is in any teams' camp.

[TulsaHawg]

I have been told that Pete really likes AC.  I think he'll get every chance to make it there.

[Hognspace]

He is a good 3-4 string pro back.  He is not super powerful but has nice vision and cutting ability. His lack of elite top end speed will limit his effectiveness in the pro-game.  In college the majority of his big games were against lesser defenses. His quickness and cutting ability will keep him in the pros but unless he develops the ability to blast a hole open his usefulness will be spot play...

[ShadowHawg]

A lot depends on the team you go to. 7 backs is a lot. I think Collins would be better off if they did cut him, then he could pick a circumstance that would give him more of an opportunity to show his talents.

[rljjr]

the "writer" of this "story" is a dumbass

And ... he's going off what the "fans" think. That's his first mistake. Just because it's a pro team doesn't mean the fans are pros -- as much as they want to think they are.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

Will AC be a star?
The odds aren't in his favor as drafting experts didn't take him in the first three rounds, and these guys are getting paid to be right more often than not.

I do think he's a starter on the right team.
A productive starter.

[hawginbigd1]

Ball was the biggest bust of any of them.
Montee Ball was cut by both Denver and New England in the past 14 months.  He has only played in 5 games since his rookie season and was on the Patriots practice squad last year. I don't think he is in any teams' camp.

It may be because he is in jail, LOL.

I guess Dayne was the most successful, but he was also a bust. This excerpt below is from a story called "bust U"

So where did it go wrong? It's starts with Wisconsin's offensive identity. They out-recruit other schools for big, bruising offensive linemen and construct an offense from there. As a result, many of Wisconsin's running backs have been a product of great offensive line play and scheme rather than being NFL-worthy talent.

So they are system RBs is the basic summation.

[RedBird5]

Nearly every back needs the right system to succeed.  Look how many successful backs change teams in the NFL and suddenly aren't that good. And ones that do the opposite of that and suddenly become good. It isn't from lack of talent.  They don't suddenly change who they are.  The system and staff is so important for success

[DeltaBoy]

AC just needs more time and game reps to get the new system worked out. Preseason is an aberration.

[The Hogfather]

He is a good 3-4 string pro back.  He is not super powerful but has nice vision and cutting ability. His lack of elite top end speed will limit his effectiveness in the pro-game.  In college the majority of his big games were against lesser defenses. His quickness and cutting ability will keep him in the pros but unless he develops the ability to blast a hole open his usefulness will be spot play...

I think you are underselling him by quite a bit.  Everyone gets caught up on speed.  As a RB, what he has (cutting ability, quickness, vision) far outweighs straight-line speed.  Even so, he has adequate speed.  Let's look at a few RBs and what they ran in the NFL combine, according to cbssports.com:

Alex Collins 4.59

Devonta Freeman 4.58
Ameer Abdullah 4.60
CJ Anderson 4.60
Le'Veon Bell 4.60
Matt Jones 4.61
T.J. Yeldon 4.61
Joseph Randle 4.63
Thomas Rawls 4.65 <---Projected starter for Seattle
Jeremy Hill 4.66
Carlos Hyde 4.66
Mark Ingram 4.66
Ahmad Bradshaw 4.66
Alfred Morris 4.67
Joique Bell 4.71
LeGarrette Blount 4.74
Stevan Ridley 4.73

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

I think you are underselling him by quite a bit.  Everyone gets caught up on speed.  As a RB, what he has (cutting ability, quickness, vision) far outweighs straight-line speed.  Even so, he has adequate speed.  Let's look at a few RBs and what they ran in the NFL combine, according to cbssports.com:

Alex Collins 4.59

Devonta Freeman 4.58
Ameer Abdullah 4.60
CJ Anderson 4.60
Le'Veon Bell 4.60
Matt Jones 4.61
T.J. Yeldon 4.61
Joseph Randle 4.63
Thomas Rawls 4.65 <---Projected starter for Seattle
Jeremy Hill 4.66
Carlos Hyde 4.66
Mark Ingram 4.66
Ahmad Bradshaw 4.66
Alfred Morris 4.67
Joique Bell 4.71
LeGarrette Blount 4.74
Stevan Ridley 4.73

Agree.
Emmitt Smith ran a 4.7.
He would frequently get caught from behind by the DBs.

He had superior vision, foot speed, and he had good success at AZ, after his prime on a so-so team.

I'm not claiming AC is the next Emmitt.
I'm claiming he can be just fine as he is.

While on the subject, many on here think Kody will be relegated to 3rd back/fullback.
I think with his new weight being 235 lbs, he may have found that balance between quickness and power.

Many may be underestimating him.

[ChitownHawg]

Agree.
Emmitt Smith ran a 4.7.
He would frequently get caught from behind by the DBs.

He had superior vision, foot speed, and he had good success at AZ, after his prime on a so-so team.

I'm not claiming AC is the next Emmitt.
I'm claiming he can be just fine as he is.

While on the subject, many on here think Kody will be relegated to 3rd back/fullback.
I think with his new weight being 235 lbs, he may have found that balance between quickness and power.

Many may be underestimating him.

True. Many defensive players said it was hard getting a good hit on Emmit due to his feet. It helped with his longevity and I think the same for AC.

Besides straightline speed doesn't you past the LOS like quick feet do.

Agree on Kody.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

True. Many defensive players said it was hard getting a good hit on Emmit due to his feet. It helped with his longevity and I think the same for AC.

Besides straightline speed doesn't you past the LOS like quick feet do.

Agree on Kody.

I bet that hurt.

[jkstock04]

I'll be surprised if Collins doesn't do well in the NFL. I always thought he would be the prototypical NFL back. Not Marshawn Lynch starting high end type talent but a "situational" or relief back.

The guy has the best vision of any running back I've ever seen at the University. That was evident to me his freshman year.

[a0ashle]

This is exactly why improving your stock a few rounds can make all the difference. AC would only cost the Seahawks $184k in dead money if cut, C.J. Prosis would cost them nearly $700k. I brought it up multiple times during the great "Should he have stayed" debate, the guaranteed money is key to getting a little more opportunity to prove yourself. The Seahawks have yet to see C.J. play, but odds are they would rather have a $184k "mistake" on their books, then a $700k "mistake".

P.S. I am not arguing that AC should have stayed, this is only a very good example of another important variable that should be considered when making (or debating) the choice to leave.

[daprospecta]

This is exactly why improving your stock a few rounds can make all the difference. AC would only cost the Seahawks $184k in dead money if cut, C.J. Prosis would cost them nearly $700k. I brought it up multiple times during the great "Should he have stayed" debate, the guaranteed money is key to getting a little more opportunity to prove yourself. The Seahawks have yet to see C.J. play, but odds are they would rather have a $184k "mistake" on their books, then a $700k "mistake".

P.S. I am not arguing that AC should have stayed, this is only a very good example of another important variable that should be considered when making (or debating) the choice to leave.

Alex most likely was not going to improve his stock. He is what he is.  Most times, a RB should only come back if he has a glaring flaw that could be fixed I.E. fumbles, not enough game film, etc. 

[Smokehouse]

Definitely something to consider, none of the Wisconsin backs pre-dating CBB even, ever really did anything at the next level going all the way back to Ron Dayne. Melvin Gordon last year really didn't impress either. I would guess Montee Ball has done the most of any in the NFL.

Gordon might look a lot better this year if they can get the o-line fixed. The blocking for him was atrocious last season.

[a0ashle]

Alex most likely was not going to improve his stock. He is what he is.  Most times, a RB should only come back if he has a glaring flaw that could be fixed I.E. fumbles, not enough game film, etc.

Certainly. As I said, it is only one of the variables at play, and one I think is often overlooked, thus why I mentioned it.

[Biggus Piggus]

Collins did not go into the best situation. Seattle drafted C.J. Prosise in the third round and Zac Brooks in Round 7. Seattle also brought in Jacksonville State's Troymaine Pope and USC's George Farmer as undrafted free agents.

They already had Thomas Rawls (coming off injury) and Christine Michael (coming off sex change).

Michael was a second-round draft pick in 2013. All the competition lit his fire, and he came back playing much better this summer. Rawls was an undrafted free agent in 2015 but averaged more than 100 yards per game until hurt.

Pope is smaller/faster/quicker than Collins is. Rawls has been on the PUP list, and Prosise has been often injured.

If Rawls is back for week one, the top three backs would be Rawls, Michael and . I bet Seattle ends up putting one of these guys on the DL, another on the practice squad. They probably can't afford to cut Prosise.

Collins was always a longshot to make the team + needed to blow them away to stick. He has not done that. If Michael had slipped, or Rawls had a setback in his recovery, the Seahawks might have had room for Collins.

[Biggus Piggus]

Alex most likely was not going to improve his stock. He is what he is.  Most times, a RB should only come back if he has a glaring flaw that could be fixed I.E. fumbles, not enough game film, etc. 

Fumbles = Collins's biggest flaw entering the draft.

Hey, good UFA's get chances in the NFL. They only have to land in the right situation. Collins was drafted into a difficult situation, because most of the question marks in front of him have not fallen his way (and he's not even necessarily a better player than the latest UFA's Seattle found).

[DeltaBoy]

Too bad AC did not land at Dallas or Denver.

[The Hogfather]

Alex most likely was not going to improve his stock. He is what he is.  Most times, a RB should only come back if he has a glaring flaw that could be fixed I.E. fumbles, not enough game film, etc. 

Exactly.  His stock wasn't going to improve by coming back another year.

[The Hogfather]

Christine Michael (coming off sex change)

Ha!

[Biggus Piggus]

Ha!

Well, (s)he was an Aggie.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

Collins did not go into the best situation. Seattle drafted C.J. Prosise in the third round and Zac Brooks in Round 7. Seattle also brought in Jacksonville State's Troymaine Pope and USC's George Farmer as undrafted free agents.

They already had Thomas Rawls (coming off injury) and Christine Michael (coming off sex change).

Michael was a second-round draft pick in 2013. All the competition lit his fire, and he came back playing much better this summer. Rawls was an undrafted free agent in 2015 but averaged more than 100 yards per game until hurt.

Pope is smaller/faster/quicker than Collins is. Rawls has been on the PUP list, and Prosise has been often injured.

If Rawls is back for week one, the top three backs would be Rawls, Michael and . I bet Seattle ends up putting one of these guys on the DL, another on the practice squad. They probably can't afford to cut Prosise.

Collins was always a longshot to make the team + needed to blow them away to stick. He has not done that. If Michael had slipped, or Rawls had a setback in his recovery, the Seahawks might have had room for Collins.

ROFL.  What irony!

Biggus, please don't write my obituary.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

Too bad AC did not land at Dallas or Denver.

Too bad he didn't stay here where we need him most... I'm just saying...

[Hogsolo]

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/8/23/12594074/alex-collins-projection-2016-seahawks-rookie-running-back-arkansas-highlights

Just a little balance

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/8/23/12594074/alex-collins-projection-2016-seahawks-rookie-running-back-arkansas-highlights

Just a little balance

Good find.

I sure hope he sticks.
Way underrated so far.

[phadedhawg]

I've watched the last 2 preseason games with a knot in my stomach.  I wish PC would give him a few more carries in favorable situations.  When they brought him in on 3rd and short I knew it wouldn't go well.  Plus our OL is a work in progress.  He had no blocking on either attempt. 

[phadedhawg]

It's really hard to get an honest picture of a player from preseason games.  Seattle is great at developing talent and our practice field is where that battle is fought.  If Alex is showing PC what he can do everyday I think he makes the team even if the preseason efforts seem dismal