Next trend in offense?

[PLHawg]

Just curious to what Hogvillians thoughts are on the next trend in offense.  I truly believe the hunh/tempo offense has been exposed to some degree.  Ole Miss ranks 126 in time of possession (3rd from bottom), and we saw Saturday what that did to their defense.  You're for sure going to have to be very efficient in putting up points in that offense because you're really hanging you defense out to dry.  Does anyone think that pro style/balanced offense will be coming back into favor in the near future?

[Josh Goforth]

Nah, the HUNH spread stuff will be around for a while. May see more of it here if Bielema decides to follow Alabama down that road. It does put the offense in a bad situation but it also gave them a lead in the 4th quarter and the Ole Miss defense couldnt get a stop.

[311Hog]

the next trend will be teams will huddle, and call plays instead of staring at the sideline for a flash card....

[010HogFan]

when these RPO things are finally exposed and flagged like they should be then things will change

[26.2Hog]

when these RPO things are finally exposed and flagged like they should be then things will change

Yes ^^^^^^^

[Razorbackers]

the next trend will be teams will huddle, and call plays instead of staring at the sideline for a flash card....

That's how teams that can't recruit the 5* athletes will compete with the Bamas and OSUs of the world. Keep the ball out of their hands and execute.

[a0ashle]

I think it will take a fundamental rules shift or a shift in enforcement of the rules for the spread to go away. The next trend might also be a result of rule shifts as well, so its hard to predict.


If I had to guess (and this will be a complete homer call), I think the current trend toward speed will breed a trend toward power. The trend of the prairie dog offense will breed more shifting fronts and coverage's on defense.

[ErieHog]

We won't see a real shift in offense for another 10 years or so;  offenses tend to be generational.   Right now, people are trying to and largely hybridizing the revolutionary change, in terms of finding ways to use some aspects of it alongside more traditional approaches.

How the rules develop is going to be super important;  I do think that eventually, we may see a more vertical emphasis in passing if the rules for down field contact continue to evolve to a point where less contact downfield is tolerated.

[HawgTide]

Just curious to what Hogvillians thoughts are on the next trend in offense.  I truly believe the hunh/tempo offense has been exposed to some degree.  Ole Miss ranks 126 in time of possession (3rd from bottom), and we saw Saturday what that did to their defense.  You're for sure going to have to be very efficient in putting up points in that offense because you're really hanging you defense out to dry.  Does anyone think that pro style/balanced offense will be coming back into favor in the near future?

Hugh Freeze is 2-16 when Ole Miss gives up more than 30 points. He needs the Land Sharks to D up.

[Pigsknuckles]

The beginning of the end of the wishbone was when Lou Holtz dismantled OU in 78. Once everyone saw how he did it, the wishbone became much less effective, and gradually faded away. The HUNH Spread trend will eventually be exposed as the broomstick putter of football. Between rules and gained coaching experience, it too will devolve to more traditional style of play.

[Piggfoot]

They need to enforce the linemen downfield and blocking downfield prior to passing. Then it would be ok.

[Josh Goforth]

They need to enforce the linemen downfield and blocking downfield prior to passing. Then it would be ok.

what part of this is not being enforced? Also have to remember that both of those rules are out the window if the pass is behind the line of scrimmage like the option/ pass to Williams on Sat. I know there are some out there but where are the examples of blocking downfield or lineman downfield on throws beyond the line of scrimmage?

[Biggus Piggus]

Do you remember seeing an Alabama lineman 10 yards downfield? He was past the receiver on the play. Drrr.

[bondhue]

The beginning of the end of the wishbone was when Lou Holtz dismantled OU in 78. Once everyone saw how he did it, the wishbone became much less effective, and gradually faded away. The HUNH Spread trend will eventually be exposed as the broomstick putter of football. Between rules and gained coaching experience, it too will devolve to more traditional style of play.

In his book "Blood, Sweat, and Chalk" Tim Layden quotes Lou Holtz on the decline of the wishbone:

"I think it's one word: recruiting," says Lou Holtz, who ran option football at five stops in his college coaching career, including with his Notre Dame national champion in 1988. "Once alumni started treating recruiting like it was a season in itself, it became very difficult to run the option. All of a sudden, [if you were an option team,] you couldn't get the dominant quarterback, because you weren't going to throw the football and get him ready for the NFL. You couldn't get the dominant left tackle, because you weren't going to teach him to pass-block. You couldn't get the dominant running back, because he wasn't going to be featured enough. Now, you can still win with the option even if you don't get those people, but if you're not getting those top recruits, the alumni start to think you're losing and you're not exciting enough."

http://www.onefootdown.com/2012/8/28/3270651/where-have-all-the-option-teams-gone

[Hoggish1]

Just curious to what Hogvillians thoughts are on the next trend in offense.  I truly believe the hunh/tempo offense has been exposed to some degree.  Ole Miss ranks 126 in time of possession (3rd from bottom), and we saw Saturday what that did to their defense.  You're for sure going to have to be very efficient in putting up points in that offense because you're really hanging you defense out to dry.  Does anyone think that pro style/balanced offense will be coming back into favor in the near future?

This has been well known all along.

[Karma]

The top 3 teams in the country run no huddle - up tempo. I'm not sure you can say it's been exposed.

[rickm1976]

That's how teams that can't recruit the 5* athletes will compete with the Bamas and OSUs of the world. Keep the ball out of their hands and execute.

This.

[HogFries]

In his book "Blood, Sweat, and Chalk" Tim Layden quotes Lou Holtz on the decline of the wishbone:

"I think it's one word: recruiting," says Lou Holtz, who ran option football at five stops in his college coaching career, including with his Notre Dame national champion in 1988. "Once alumni started treating recruiting like it was a season in itself, it became very difficult to run the option. All of a sudden, [if you were an option team,] you couldn't get the dominant quarterback, because you weren't going to throw the football and get him ready for the NFL. You couldn't get the dominant left tackle, because you weren't going to teach him to pass-block. You couldn't get the dominant running back, because he wasn't going to be featured enough. Now, you can still win with the option even if you don't get those people, but if you're not getting those top recruits, the alumni start to think you're losing and you're not exciting enough."



As I read this, I spit all over my computer monitor

http://www.onefootdown.com/2012/8/28/3270651/where-have-all-the-option-teams-gone

[hogsanity]

The spread/hunh is not going anywhere. That is just about all I see down to even 5th grade. Even though they run the ball 99% of the time, they run up to the line and do the prairiedog thing with trips left or right, jet motion, etc.

[DeltaBoy]

Right Now the top 3 teams have superior overall talent and could run the Wing T and would still be top 3. 

Rule changes that will benifit the D and not the O will be one change I wish we would see.

[azhog10]

Right Now the top 3 teams have superior overall talent and could run the Wing T and would still be top 3. 

Rule changes that will benifit the D and not the O will be one change I wish we would see.

I don't know about that. When I watch Bama their defense seems to benefit quite a bit. Never see DBs get away with being as physical as Bama's. Not sure why this is, but it may be in the SEC rule book that Bama receivers may grab, hold, punch, and kick WR's before the whistle. After the whistle, they can only punch and kick.

[HyperDrive]

Just curious to what Hogvillians thoughts are on the next trend in offense.  I truly believe the hunh/tempo offense has been exposed to some degree.  Ole Miss ranks 126 in time of possession (3rd from bottom), and we saw Saturday what that did to their defense.  You're for sure going to have to be very efficient in putting up points in that offense because you're really hanging you defense out to dry.  Does anyone think that pro style/balanced offense will be coming back into favor in the near future?

If anything, it's gaining more acceptance.  Alabama has been using up tempo stuff this year, along with the zone read concepts because they have an elite athlete at QB that can gouge a defense that way now.  What you may see are teams that have been running it be more willing to adjust the tempo down a bit depending on who they're playing or game situations.  They might still line up and not huddle, but they may allow the play clock to wind down at bit.  Still prevents mass subs by the defense since they can snap it at any moment, but let's them apply a little ball control and clock-milking when it makes sense.

[ShadowHawg]

TOP is probably the most worthless stat there is. If the other team is scoring a lot, then you will have the TOP advantage.

[Lord of the Styes]

No punting and analytical sheets on qb's armbands.

[12247]

Until the NCAA demands each team be equally provided talent and that is never going to happen, you will see offenses trying to get their few best players in space so that they might have a chance to win.  Ole Miss will win more games overall running an offense that gets their few stars the ball in space than they ever will running it up the gut into real defenses.

When Saban realized he couldn't get BB to get the rules changed, then he changed his offense.  The best teams can win in any offense if they coach it.  The lessor the talent, the more you need wide open space.

[AirForceHog]

They need to enforce the linemen downfield and blocking downfield prior to passing. Then it would be ok.

This needs to happen now.

[lstewart]

I see the main weakness of the hurry up portion of this style is that you can wear your defense out if you are not scoring on offense, but are snapping the ball quickly. As others have said, if you don't sub and line up on the ball, the defense is at risk trying to sub, since you can snap the ball at any second. You are seeing some teams do this, taking time as they like before snapping the ball, and at other times going very fast. Keeps the defense off balance. I don't see the spread type offense going anywhere, and with the current rules, the no huddle offense can be effective. The hurry up portion can work at times, but maybe is not a great approach to run all the time.

[a0ashle]

I see the main weakness of the hurry up portion of this style is that you can wear your defense out if you are not scoring on offense, but are snapping the ball quickly. As others have said, if you don't sub and line up on the ball, the defense is at risk trying to sub, since you can snap the ball at any second. You are seeing some teams do this, taking time as they like before snapping the ball, and at other times going very fast. Keeps the defense off balance. I don't see the spread type offense going anywhere, and with the current rules, the no huddle offense can be effective. The hurry up portion can work at times, but maybe is not a great approach to run all the time.

Shifting from hurry up, to slow and back again.... that's the next trend. Hurry up won't be an offensive style, but a package that you can flip in and out of mid drive if need be.

[LZH]

As long as there are 6'5" 240lb QB's that can run and throw, there will always be some form of option in CFB (run/pitch/pass).

I do miss watching the old triple option teams, though.

[Polecat]

wishbone/triple option

[MJ2]

Multiple QB capable of players on the field at one time.   Snap the ball to any of them.   Pass, run, catch, pitch, endless options.

[hogsanity]

They need to enforce the linemen downfield and blocking downfield prior to passing. Then it would be ok.

If they ever do that, I mean actually enforce it, it will kill all this rpo stuff because they have linemen downfield on every play. I threw a inel downfield flag in a 7th grade game and the coach went ballistic on me. The left guard was 18 yards downfield. The coach said we needed to be watching important stuff, not stuff like that.

[RT1941]

If anything, it's gaining more acceptance.  Alabama has been using up tempo stuff this year, along with the zone read concepts because they have an elite athlete at QB that can gouge a defense that way now.  What you may see are teams that have been running it be more willing to adjust the tempo down a bit depending on who they're playing or game situations.  They might still line up and not huddle, but they may allow the play clock to wind down at bit.  Still prevents mass subs by the defense since they can snap it at any moment, but let's them apply a little ball control and clock-milking when it makes sense.

Alabama has recruited to run up-tempo/zone read and they've recruited to stop the same type of offense as well. 

Saban asked a couple of years ago after losing to Auburn, "is this what we want football to become?"...no changes were made to benefit the defense so he changed/evolved his offense and defense and now we see what's happening.  He can bring in the top talent in the country and he can field a team that can beat you with any scheme, but it's beginning to look like it's gotten to the point where they are dominating teams by fighting fire with fire. 

[RT1941]

TOP is probably the most worthless stat there is. If the other team is scoring a lot, then you will have the TOP advantage.

+1
TOP stats are worthless - - what are you doing with the time you have possession?  Because if you aren't scoring points then it doesn't matter how long you hold on to the ball.

[a0ashle]

+1
TOP stats are worthless - - what are you doing with the time you have possession?  Because if you aren't scoring points then it doesn't matter how long you hold on to the ball.

Resting the defense and allowing defensive coaches to have more time for adjustments. You are also taking the ball out of the other teams hands, reducing possession. Reduced possession equals reduce score. TOP isn't important for every team, but when you play our style of ball, its very important.

[colbs]

TOP is probably the most worthless stat there is. If the other team is scoring a lot, then you will have the TOP advantage.

If you own the TOP and are scoring you are limiting the other team's opportunities to score.  For some teams it means a lot and some it does not.  If Arkansas can't stop the other team it really doesn't mean much.  If they are and are putting points on the board it is very tough on other teams and their defense.

[fademe]

Just curious to what Hogvillians thoughts are on the next trend in offense.  I truly believe the hunh/tempo offense has been exposed to some degree.  Ole Miss ranks 126 in time of possession (3rd from bottom), and we saw Saturday what that did to their defense.  You're for sure going to have to be very efficient in putting up points in that offense because you're really hanging you defense out to dry.  Does anyone think that pro style/balanced offense will be coming back into favor in the near future?

I think you will see an evolution of the HUNH. I think teams will become more multiple on offense, going from pro sets to gun and back to pro sets. Having personnel packages that play multiple positions.

Bama does it some. The Patriots do it in the NFL. But I think there will be more of a transition to that style across the board, basically merging the two styles. I think Bielema cold do it with the personnel he has right now. He would just have to incorporate the HUNH, which I don't think he's a big fan. I think Bielema's offense would be lethal with tempo. (Disclaimer: I haven't watched every Arkansas snap to know if he runs tempo. I'm just basing it on what I've seen and what he's said in the past.)

[a0ashle]

I think you will see an evolution of the HUNH. I think teams will become more multiple on offense, going from pro sets to gun and back to pro sets. Having personnel packages that play multiple positions.

Bama does it some. The Patriots do it in the NFL. But I think there will be more of a transition to that style across the board, basically merging the two styles. I think Bielema cold do it with the personnel he has right now. He would just have to incorporate the HUNH, which I don't think he's a big fan. I think Bielema's offense would be lethal with tempo. (Disclaimer: I haven't watched every Arkansas snap to know if he runs tempo. I'm just basing it on what I've seen and what he's said in the past.)

I am a big fan of using selective tempo, i think we could take advantage of it and still play our TOP style ball.

[fademe]

I am a big fan of using selective tempo, i think we could take advantage of it and still play our TOP style ball.

You absolutely could. That's what I think is most difficult to stop. Teams like OM go as fast as possible, but with good alignment, it can be managed. The intermittent tempo is much more difficult to defend because you never know when the pace is coming. It keeps DCs guessing, t makes substitutions harder, and it makes audibles and check-with-me's more difficult.

I think Bielema's offense would be killer with some tempo. Heck, against Bama and OM, he ran some RPO-type plays. One in particular that comes to mind is this one against Bama. I think they could be even tougher on offense with some tempo mixed in and some RPO concepts called with the run-heavy sets they show.